S05.E13: Steven and Justin's Story, Part 1

[Dru Blood]

6 hours ago, meow-mah-leg said:

WTF do you mean NO? you selfish piece of shit! 

That's James K. for ya, ooops, I mean Steven.  They are both on the selfish spectrum, just different places.  I personally think Steven is a big GIANT narcissist.  He wants ALL THE ATTENTION ALL the time!  And dammit!  He is gonna get it ANYWAY he can.  And NOW NOW NOW (kinda like these bold caps here).  He is a big hangry asshole all the time.  Some of the behavior could very well have been there at birth.  Fetal alcohol syndrome in the extreme causes mental retardation (I know, it's a no no word, so sue me).  I don't think he has FAS, but he definitely has some mental disorder.

6 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

I would have snatched that pizza box off him and left. 

He would have called the police, remember, they are on speed dial.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dru Blood
left out a word

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Dru Blood said:

He would have called the police, remember, they are speed dial.

Not if you shoved the phone up his ample diseased ass he wouldn't.

[Dru Blood]

Just now, PsychoKlown said:

Not if you shoved the phone up his ample diseased ass he wouldn't.

Hah!  I know!  Someone needs to take that phone away permanently!  Even better...suspend it just out of reach of this creep....he can see it, hear it, EVEN SMELL IT!  But he just can't get it!  Haha ha!  That would be a sight I would pay for.

[todd]

I just re-watched the infamous pizza scene between Steven and his dad. That prompted me to call my own dad for his input. The following is a transcript of our phone call:

 

"Hello"

"Hi dad"

"Hey, son, how are you"

"I'm good"

"Great, how's Lauren?"

"She's good. Dad, can I ask you something?"

"Sure"

"Back when I was living under your roof and you were paying all the bills and I asked you for a large pepperoni pizza and after it was delivered and you paid for it and I told you that you couldn't have a slice even though you said you hadn't eaten all day and then I FLIPPED you the bird, what would you have done?"

"You mean after I kicked your ASS all over the house?"

"Yeah"

"Well, I would have taken all your worldly possessions, which I paid for, loaded them up in my truck and dropped them off at Goodwill, leaving you with the clothes on your back and then I would have told you to go out and get a job."

"Thats what I figured. Well, give my love to Mom, see you soon."

"Bye"

"Bye"

[ZombieLisa]

6 minutes ago, Dru Blood said:

Fetal alcohol syndrome in the extreme causes mental retardation (I know, it's a no no word, so sue me).

As the parent of an intellectually disabled adult, I don't have a problem with the term "mental retardation". I do have a problem with people using the term "retard" as an insult. Having said that, Steven and his brother don't remind me of any of the disabled people I've known in a lifetime of care (my brother is autistic). Steven is just a manipulative drug addict and his poor brother is just beaten down. Justin said early on that his brother bullied him his whole life and bullying leaves damage, even if the victim manages to get away from the bully.

[Dru Blood]

5 hours ago, okerry said:

If you just saw them dressed, you might think they were just rounder or bigger than the average person; but when there's a shower scene, you can see how the huge folds and growths of fat have developed all over the body

I agree.  In thinking of some of the participants with challenging physiques, both Nikki from season 4 and Nicole from a couple of episodes back spring to mind.  They both carried an extreme amount of their weight in the stomach area.  Nicole wore pants and you could get a sense of the trouble she had just carrying the bulk of her weight on the front of her body, but Nikki wore loooonnnggg skirts.  If we were only shown Nikki clothed you would never be able to wrap your head around exactly how the weight was dispersed.  A lot of regular people just see heavy people (especially clothed) and assume they can just exercise and eat right and it will all go away.  How one carries their weight is a factor on how easy it is to exercise and move about.  Nikki had an extremely difficult time moving around.  As I recall, she had breathing difficulties as well as back problems.  I HATE the shower scenes, but I appreciate the information I gain in understanding how their weight is distributed and gain insight in just what they deal with day to day in managing their size.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dru Blood
add a word

[HahYallDoin]

2 hours ago, Quof said:

Did no one else consider it a gross HIPAA violation when the hospital told Princess that Steven had come in to the ER? 

Actually, you can call the hospital and ask if there is someone by the name XYZ and they will tell you and even give you the room number. You can also do this in person.

The exception is if you requested upon admission, or during your stay, to be placed on the DNP listing...Do Not Publish. At that point, your name will not show up when an employee searches the census. If the employee has an advanced security clearance(based on their job) and has REASON to need to find the patients name, the employee can enter their advanced security code and then the patients name will appear. The IT dept. at my hospital runs a report every 12 hours of all employees who used their code and who they looked up. This info is stored for 5 years, reviewed by a Risk Management employee, and trending reports are compiled to see if employees are routinely looking up DNP's. In case they are of the nosy sort. HIPPA violations can result in reduced federal reimbursements(i.e. Medicare) and are not tolerated at our facility at all. 

Of course, under no circumstances will they discuss your medical condition and treatment with the average Joe...or exceptional Princess in this case. Your care can only be discussed with those you designate. Princess rightfully assumed what he was up to. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by HahYallDoin
To add the last sentence paragraph.

[Quof]

But he wasn't there, was he? He was seen in the ER, got his drugs and was discharged.  

[Dru Blood]

3 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

Yup.  He doesn't want help.  He wants your blood/sweat/tears.  He has already told ALL of us to shut up, get to work and pay our taxes so he can have a urinal, food, bed, drugs, phone, computer...the list goes on.

I do think Steven was more then likely made this way.  Yes, there are born sociopaths.  But sociopaths tend to be charming.  Psychopaths are the ones that don't know how to hide it.  Steven doesn't hide it.  At all.

[HahYallDoin]

8 minutes ago, Quof said:

But he wasn't there, was he? He was seen in the ER, got his drugs and was discharged.  

 I don't remember for certain but I just assumed(I know, l know, LOL) that he was still there. Because if he wasn't at the apartment, he either had to be at the hospital or in the ambulance on the way home. He didn't even have the walker with him. 

Also, patients remain on our census for 24 hours after discharge so that when folks call for them, the switchboard operator can inform them. 

[Dru Blood]

3 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Steven needs to learn to be uncomfortable and it may take people turning their backs on him to make this happen.

You are exactly right.  I suspect that Steven developed this personality just for that reason right there.  He was never able to cope with the uncomfortable, what ever that may be.  I am sure his parent's divorce, his Mother's drinking, being hit and/or abused by his Mother's boyfriends made him angry, but when he became uncomfortable with some situations he wasn't able to verbalize his discomfort.  He just acted out.  And it worked.  BOY did it WORK.  Now it's his go to move.  It's his coping mechanism.  I honestly think his overeating is secondary to what ever else is going on in his head.

[Dru Blood]

2 hours ago, 88Keys said:

There was a South Park episode about a big fat gross guy who sits at home playing video games all the time.

My husband HATES that episode.  On the flip side, when the guys get hugely fat to try and beat that guy at WOW, the scene with Cartman pooping while still sitting at the computer kinda reminds me of James K.  Gross, no chux were harmed during that episode.

[Ivylady]

Mr. Ivylady loves pepperoni pizza. It's his favorite. I'm going to show him this and see if I can convince him to get something else the next time we order pizza. 

These brothers are a mess. The father is a mess. The mother is a mess. It is what it is. My hats off to the medical staff. The nurse that had to clean his urine sounded close to tears. I hope he eats himself into the grave because of how he treated them.

[Kid]

8 hours ago, bubbly said:

I'm not hard hearted, I think I'm a morally strong person,  but I felt things I've never experienced while watching this episode.   I went from disgust to actually feeling a kind of fear when he was shown.  I have a horrible feeling the only reason he isn't a sadistic serial killer is because he's too fat to sneak up on anyone and is too out of shape to dispose of a body by himself.   There's a primitive part of our brain that reacts before our conscious mind really realizes we're in danger and Steven triggered my primal fear instinct.  Heavy, heavy episode y'all. 

 

You hit the nail right on the head! He has no empathy.  And he gets pleasure out of hurting and humiliating and controlling other people. I grew up with the mother that was just like him in that respect. So, I know exactly what you were sensing and I was sensing it too.  He made me uncomfortable. And I think the thing that brought that out the most was when he was creating such a ruckus in the hospital and having people going to and fro with a sly smile on his face.  There is something dead in a person like that. They have no soul.

[spacefly]

$700/month on pizza or so the pop up said. Who has $700/month for pizza?

[ZombieLisa]

1 minute ago, spacefly said:

$700/month on pizza or so the pop up said. Who has $700/month for pizza?

That's more on pizza alone than I spend in groceries for a family of four adults.

[hnygrl]

Reading these comments let me know I did the right thing by turning it off. I didn't last through the opening credits. That big baby-man with his face in the pie? Then, then, then, THERE'S TWO OF THEM???? Girl bye. And off goes the TV for the night.

Y'all make me happy I did that. I haven't been able to stomach an episode all season. They've all, all of them, been either morally reprehensible or nonsensically ridiculously horrible. This one makes me wonder just how by the short-hairs TLC has Dr. Now and his clinic. They must be paying that man a rather large fortune for him to keep agreeing to be a part of this more and more obviously scripted circus.

Every episode, I lose more respect for the man. Maybe. Maybe. Pleas Lord, let it be true...for every "Steven" He's "forced" to help, there are five patients who NEED and WANT his help who wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise (TLC Millions making it possible). Here's hoping (praying) he was an astute enough negotiator to put that in the contract.

Fantasies that that are the only way I can justify still watching this show to my conscience.

[Kid]

8 hours ago, meow-mah-leg said:

It annoyed me when Steven got out of the hospital and got a pizza. Dad says: "can I have a slice? I haven't eaten since 6 this morning". And Steven says "no". WTF do you mean NO? you selfish piece of shit! 

What was interesting about that was, the father went and got the pizza, he paid for the pizza, and he felt that he needed to ASK for a piece!  He should've just opened the box when he came in the door, took a slice, then handed it to the pig.  (My apologies to pigs everywhere just calling him a pig is an insult to our porcine friends).

[spacefly]

Just now, ZombieLisa said:

That's more on pizza alone than I spend in groceries for a family of four adults.

Exactly. My husband and I with an 18 yo boy spend about $600/mo on groceries and that's when we aren't pinching pennies.

[gardendiva]

18 minutes ago, Kid said:

You hit the nail right on the head! He has no empathy.  And he gets pleasure out of hurting and humiliating and controlling other people. I grew up with the mother that was just like him in that respect. So, I know exactly what you were sensing and I was sensing it too.  He made me uncomfortable. And I think the thing that brought that out the most was when he was creating such a ruckus in the hospital and having people going to and fro with a sly smile on his face.  There is something dead in a person like that. They have no soul.

Also, psychopaths and sociopaths do not have the fear of public embarrassment that regular people have. They will do things without any fear of how they look to other people. So, the public exposure of body parts, the ability to demand outrageous things of other people without fear of how it makes them look, the ability to cause a dramatic scene and just smile instead of being embarrassed...all of these things make me think he is at least a sociopath if not a psychopath.

i just finished listening to an audiobook called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker, and in it he states that of all the dangerous psychopaths ever studied, they ALL had a childhood history of abuse and/or neglect. He does not say that if you had a difficult childhood that you will become psychopathic, but there are no psychopaths that had an easy childhood. And people that need to feel in control at all times usually had a childhood that was quite out of control, whether it was due to abuse or neglect.

[Anchorabu]

Full length nude shot of Steven...

Mom:  "Good Lord, is that the front or the back??"

[fliptopbox]

Both boys dropped out of high school. Saw that one coming a mile away.

[spacefly]

Just now, fliptopbox said:

Both boys dropped out of high school. Saw that one coming a mile away.

It said Steven at 18 and Justin at 16 but I wonder what year they actually finished.

[fliptopbox]

2 minutes ago, spacefly said:

It said Steven at 18 and Justin at 16 but I wonder what year they actually finished.

Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me if one or even both were held back a year here or there. They don't seem to be the brightest pair.

[Anchorabu]

OMG OMG THE GOLF CART...

Gotta wait till next week...

[Awfarmington]

10 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

 I was more upset with the dad than anything.  As others have said, I think there was way more to this story than we got to hear.

Steven Jr. is a master manipulator. His story of childhood trauma seemed well rehearsed for maximum drama. He was so smug. "Let me tell you about my childhood. It was terrible." Like he was about to drop some juicy gossip. Boo Hoo, get the tissues. Do you know how many kids have been through way worse? Sometimes you are just a jackass and it's not mommy's fault. All these guys blame their mothers, but why do dads get a pass?

Mom drank too much so the parents divorced. Wonderdad sends the kids to live with her. He knows she has a problem.

What dirt does Steven Jr. have on Steven Sr.? He's always threatening dire consequences if dad doesn't pony up that pizza. And dad jumps! When dad told Justin that what he does for Steven was none of his business, I had an aha moment. Sounds like some fishy blackmail scheme going on.

And dad just lets Steven terrorize Justin? That wall banging and yelling would last about five minutes for me. Dad could have shut this down at any point but chose not to. Steven Jr. runs that house and their lives. My question is why?

I would run away, too, if I was Steven's mom. 

[Cherrio]

I bet they never tip the pizza delivery man.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, spacefly said:

8 minutes ago, fliptopbox said:

Both boys dropped out of high school. Saw that one coming a mile away.

It said Steven at 18 and Justin at 16 but I wonder what year they actually finished.

The two of them? They were probably still in the third grade. 

[MrsClaus]

I can't believe I'm subjecting myself to this a second time.  I'm watching without sound and just reading the popups tho.

[55Unicorns]

15 minutes ago, Anchorabu said:

Full length nude shot of Steven...

Mom:  "Good Lord, is that the front or the back??"

LMAO...LOVE MOM!!

[Cherrio]

They should of put Steven in the back of a Domino's truck for transport.

No stops, he has all the pizza he wants.  

[55Unicorns]

I wonder if there is a rehab for addicts to crap like this ...can't believe I'm watching AGAIN...

Edited March 31, 2017 by 55Unicorns
said it wrong

[SouthernCross]

17 minutes ago, hnygrl said:

Reading these comments let me know I did the right thing by turning it off. I didn't last through the opening credits. That big baby-man with his face in the pie? Then, then, then, THERE'S TWO OF THEM???? Girl bye. And off goes the TV for the night.

.

Yep. I got as far as the pie smearing thing 3 minutes in and I was done. 

This show has officially jumped the shark for me.  Its not interesting, amusing, educational or uplifting.  

No offense meant to those who may still enjoy it but you gotta be crazy to find any redeeming qualities at this stage of the shows development.

Im not interested in being repulsed or pissed off. It will likely be deleted from my DVR next time I am going through it. 

[Kid]

4 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I respectfully disagree.  A true monster does not deserve compassion and empathy.  Plus, Stephen WAS given compassion and empathy, and he pissed all over those trying to give it to him.  I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

AMEN!!!!!!!   As I stated in another post I was raised by a mother with his personality.   She would beat me to within an inch of my life and I would not cry because crying was weakness and my life depended on not displaying any weakness,  When I became an adult, I did my best to talk her into going to some kind of therapy and she would have none of it. So I had to just cut her out of my life. It was about survival - it was her or me as the mental abuse did not stop once I became an adult.

88keys you nailed it about a person with this personality disorder. Any display of human emotion, be at compassion, kindness, grief, pain is seen as weakness and an opportunity for exploitation and/or abuse.  He had a chance and help MULTIPLE times.

[spacefly]

Elephantiasis, this is what the pop up said is wrong with his legs along with the Lymphedema. This is also caused by obstruction of the lymph vessels. I would say James K may have had similar problems.

From raredisease.org (No need to thank me)

Elephantiasis is a condition characterized by gross enlargement of an area of the body, especially the limbs. Other areas commonly affected include the external genitals. Elephantiasis is caused by obstruction of the lymphatic system, which results in the accumulation of a fluid called lymph in the affected areas.

Edited March 31, 2017 by spacefly
Figured I would add more information

[55Unicorns]

2 minutes ago, SouthernCross said:

Yep. I got as far as the pie smearing thing 3 minutes in and I was done. 

This show has officially jumped the shark for me.  Its not interesting, amusing, educational or uplifting.  

No offense meant to those who may still enjoy it but you gotta be crazy to find any redeeming qualities at this stage of the shows development.

Im not interested in being repulsed or pissed off. It will likely be deleted from my DVR next time I am going through it. 

It's like watching a slow moving train wreck...you can't stand looking, and you can't look away...

[fliptopbox]

Anyone else catch that Dr Now covered his stethoscope with a glove when listening to Steven's heart but didn't with Justin? I bet Steven smelled soooo bad due to lack of hygiene. I wouldn't want those cooties either!

[hnygrl]

2 minutes ago, Kid said:

 

4 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I respectfully disagree.  A true monster does not deserve compassion and empathy.  Plus, Stephen WAS given compassion and empathy, and he pissed all over those trying to give it to him.  I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

AMEN!!!!!!!   As I stated in another post I was raised by a mother with his personality.   She would beat me to within an inch of my life and I would not cry because crying was weakness and my life depended on not displaying any weakness,  When I became an adult, I did my best to talk her into going to some kind of therapy and she would have none of it. So I had to just cut her out of my life. It was about survival - it was her or me as the mental abuse did not stop once I became an adult.

88keys you nailed it about a person with this personality disorder. Any display of human emotion, be at compassion, kindness, grief, pain is seen as weakness and an opportunity for exploitation and/or abuse.  He had a chance and help MULTIPLE times.

 

Flashbacks to my childhood! EESH...I remember learning early to never ever cry. Do not for the love of all that is good and holy cry. They'll eat you alive. Or worse, laugh at you. I remember having to pretend something didn't hurt so they'd get bored and leave me alone.

Not one, not two, but THREE of them in my household.

And people wonder why we're "not very close" today.

And why I put a continent AND an ocean between us...

[Angel3186767]

7 hours ago, scoopski potata said:

No names or any identifying factors (which I'm not saying this person has provided, I'm just clarifying that anything that could be used to identify the patient, not just the name, is technically arguable as a violation). If doctors and nurses are breaching confidentiality about patients to other drs and nurses who aren't authorized to know info about said patients...not really legal. It happens, but it's a HIPAA violation. Just to be clear. 

I am so glad someone mentioned HIPAA violations. That's the biggest reason people should not disclose patient information to unauthorized people. And as for any Doctors and Nurses gossiping about patients, all it takes is for the wrong person to overhear and file a complaint with the BON or Medical Board. That's when I step in! 

But this episode was so frustrating to watch. I had to pause my DVR multiple times to get through it. Steven is just a vile, manipulative, and hateful person. There's absolutely no hope for him but Justin can be saved. If and only if, he leaves that dysfunctional family.

[Cherrio]

7 minutes ago, Kid said:

AMEN!!!!!!!   As I stated in another post I was raised by a mother with his personality.   She would beat me to within an inch of my life and I would not cry because crying was weakness and my life depended on not displaying any weakness,  When I became an adult, I did my best to talk her into going to some kind of therapy and she would have none of it. So I had to just cut her out of my life. It was about survival - it was her or me as the mental abuse did not stop once I became an adult.

88keys you nailed it about a person with this personality disorder. Any display of human emotion, be at compassion, kindness, grief, pain is seen as weakness and an opportunity for exploitation and/or abuse.  He had a chance and help MULTIPLE times.

I am so sorry.  You did the right thing.

[55Unicorns]

1 minute ago, Angel3186767 said:

I am so glad someone mentioned HIPAA violations. That's the biggest reason people should not disclose patient information to unauthorized people. And as for any Doctors and Nurses gossiping about patients, all it takes is for the wrong person to overhear and file a complaint with the BON or Medical Board. That's when I step in! 

But this episode was so frustrating to watch. I had to pause my DVR multiple times to get through it. Steven is just a vile, manipulative, and hateful person. There's absolutely no hope for him but Justin can be saved. If and only if, he leaves that dysfunctional family.

IF that poor kid gets some therapy for that extreme social anxiety first...someone mentioned upthread if there was more than verbal abuse from Steven when they were young, and I might have to agree...if you get my drift.

[Kid]

1 minute ago, hnygrl said:

Flashbacks to my childhood! EESH...I remember learning early to never ever cry. Do not for the love of all that is good and holy cry. They'll eat you alive. Or worse, laugh at you. I remember having to pretend something didn't hurt so they'd get bored and leave me alone.

Not one, not two, but THREE of them in my household.

And people wonder why we're "not very close" today.

And why I put a continent AND an ocean between us...

 See, you get it. In this episode, that is what I believe Justin was attempting to do. He needed to get away from Steven and he knew it. Unfortunately, since he doesn't live on his own and since he doesn't earn a living  and doesn't seem to know how to do either of those things, he can't get away because of his connection with his father. For the love of God, his father is ordering pizzas from Rhode Island when all he has to do is not answer the phone.  So the father is unable to get away from him even telephonically.  

Let me tell you, it takes a lot of strength  and courage to walk away from an abuser,  especially, when the abuser is a family member. I took a lot of flak from my family for cutting my mother out of my life. However, they were not her victim. And although they saw the abuse going on, they did nothing about it essentially enabling it. So,  I really feel for Justin and hope he can get out.

2 minutes ago, Cherrio said:

I am so sorry.  You did the right thing.

What a kind thing to say. Thank you, Cherrio.

[Anchorabu]

8 minutes ago, fliptopbox said:

 

Anyone else catch that Dr Now covered his stethoscope with a glove when listening to Steven's heart but didn't with Justin? I bet Steven smelled soooo bad due to lack of hygiene. I wouldn't want those cooties either!

 

I noticed that too! How rank must one be for the Dr to do that? 

I would be so covered up I would look like an astronaut before even stepping into his room. 

And then I'd have to burn my suit afterward. ? 

[55Unicorns]

4 minutes ago, Kid said:

 See, you get it. In this episode, that is what I believe Justin was attempting to do. He needed to get away from Steven and he knew it. Unfortunately, since he doesn't live on his own and since he doesn't earn a living  and doesn't seem to know how to do either of those things, he can't get away because of his connection with his father. For the love of God, his father is ordering pizzas from Rhode Island when all he has to do is not answer the phone.  So the father is unable to get away from him even telephonically.  

Let me tell you, it takes a lot of strength  and courage to walk away from an abuser,  especially, when the abuser is a family member. I took a lot of flak from my family for cutting my mother out of my life. However, they were not her victim. And although they saw the abuse going on, they did nothing about it essentially enabling it. So,  I really feel for Justin and hope he can get out.

I'm so sorry, Kid.  No one deserves that.

[ClareWalks]

45 minutes ago, spacefly said:

$700/month on pizza or so the pop up said. Who has $700/month for pizza?

WTF. Nowadays $700 can buy you 3 pizzas a day every month. That is insane. I mean, I like pizza, but I couldn't eat THREE EVERY DAY.

[Anchorabu]

7 minutes ago, Kid said:

Let me tell you, it takes a lot of strength  and courage to walk away from an abuser,  especially, when the abuser is a family member. I took a lot of flak from my family for cutting my mother out of my life. However, they were not her victim. And although they saw the abuse going on, they did nothing about it essentially enabling it. So,  I really feel for Justin and hope he can get out.

Kid, so sorry. Bless you for being brave and strong enough to do the right thing. Hang in there. 

[gardendiva]

7 minutes ago, 55Unicorns said:

IF that poor kid gets some therapy for that extreme social anxiety first...someone mentioned upthread if there was more than verbal abuse from Steven when they were young, and I might have to agree...if you get my drift

I know where you are going with this and I have the same thought. The 6 year age difference between the two of them, and the way Justin wants to completely avoid any kind of contact with his brother tells me something pretty extreme happened between the two of them, and not just the typical sibling bullying.

[Ivylady]

49 minutes ago, spacefly said:

$700/month on pizza or so the pop up said. Who has $700/month for pizza?

That's twice our food budget for two adults, and we eat high quality food. Even if you factor in eating out, that's still more than the monthly budget for me and the mister. 

[55Unicorns]

Just now, gardendiva said:

I know where you are going with this and I have the same thought. The 6 year age difference between the two of them, and the way Justin wants to completely avoid any kind of contact with his brother tells me something pretty extreme happened between the two of them, and not just the typical sibling bullying.

I can imagine Steven (though horrifically) doing it too.

AGGRESSIVELY photographing the nurses?!?  This is one sick ticket....

[55Unicorns]

"Throwing urine is considered assault".  PROSECUTE this asshole!