S07.E16: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

[AngelaHunter]

21 hours ago, dinkysquid said:

Eugene? You sniveling, little fucking coward? I hope you get yours and it's not pretty. 

I guess I'm the only one who can put myself in Eugene's shoes and doesn't blame him for his defection. What did he have in Alexandria? He lost his best friend, Abe (who  put him down and punched him out but still, he was there) so he has Rosita who treats him like a dog and speaks to him like he's garbage (she may have reason, but again, nothing for him to hang around for). He ends up at the Sanctuary, where people and even Negan treat him as though he's worthwhile. All he has to do in return is say he's Negan and he gets to live high on the hog. I'm no hero either, so I get why he did this.

[ShadowSixx]

I wouldn't say Eugene defected over 100% as I think he still cares for Alexandrians. Only one who treated him like shit is Rosita. Everyone else has been civil towards him. He may not be so fond of Rick now after Rick is willing to blow him up.

What I don't like is how there isn't a sense of urgency when it comes to rescuing their own people. Getting Eugene back there was no urgency, Rosita didn't immediately tell everyone that Sasha is at the Sanctuary, Tara not letting people know about Heath's disappearance, nobody isn't even questioning his absence. You know you're going to war, you might want to get everyone that you can. 

[Canada]

I feel like this entire season was just filler and nothing really happened.  You could leave out the entire season and it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the storyline.  The people who make this show need to take some time off and figure out what the hell they want to do with the show, because they just destroyed it this season.  It was a complete waste of time.  It can be summed up as: Negan talked, Sasha died, there was a tiger.  That's it.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Canada

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

What I don't like is how there isn't a sense of urgency when it comes to rescuing their own people. Getting Eugene back there was no urgency, Rosita didn't immediately tell everyone that Sasha is at the Sanctuary, Tara not letting people know about Heath's disappearance, nobody isn't even questioning his absence.

Don't forget Daryl shrugging over Beth's abduction - "Gone. Oh, well." The only urgency we ever saw was over Sophia. People spent half a season running around obsessed and screaming, "SOPHIA!" at full volume until I couldn't stand it and gave up on this show for more than a year.

As for Heath, Tara comes waltzing up to the gates, all smiles and sunglasses and not one person said, "Hey, wasn't Heath with you?"

Edited April 10, 2017 by AngelaHunter

[ShadowSixx]

2 hours ago, Canada said:

I feel like this entire season was just filler and nothing really happened.  You could leave out the entire season and it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the storyline.  The people who make this show need to take some time off and figure out what the hell they want to do with the show, because they just destroyed it this season.  It was a complete waste of time.  It can be summed up as: Negan talked, Sasha died, there was a tiger.  That's it.

And Glenn & Abe died and not much mourning for Glenn who's been there since S1 he was an original. Yeah that stupid scene between Daryl & Maggie wasn't shit.

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

Don't forget Daryl shrugging over Beth's abduction - "Gone. Oh, well." The only urgency we ever saw was over Sophia. People spent half a season running around obsessed and screaming, "SOPHIA!" at full volume until I couldn't stand it and gave up on this show for more than a year.

As for Heath, Tara comes waltzing up to the gates, all smiles and sunglasses and not one person said, "Hey, wasn't Heath with you?"

To a certain degree, I can accept it as a reaction to all the random deaths in the ZA. People may have  become  numb to sudden deaths, and realize that anyone  can die at any time. Although, that isn't really how it's been portrayed.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

People spent half a season running around obsessed and screaming, "SOPHIA!" at full volume until I couldn't stand it and gave up on this show for more than a year.

 SPOILER ALERT.

To this day, I think the Sophia arc was one of the most effective storylines in the entire series.

Her coming out of the barn was probably the one moment that had the most impact on the show.  I think that whole arc was largely responsible for Daryl's popularity also, because while everyone was getting wrapped up in their own problems, Daryl was the only one who kept going out there everyday looking for the lost child.  Life seemed less cheap in those earlier seasons.

Regarding Eugene, I'm guessing he finds a way to redeem himself at some point.  He already took a chance by giving Sasha the "allergy medicine".  He's not going to stick his neck out too far, but if he get his chance to do his part to bring down Negan's reign, I think he will do it.  He's doing the smart thing, playing along and biding his time.  Maybe his opportunity will come, and maybe it won't.  He's not a badass like Daryl (or Sasha), where Negan is going to have him kill somebody to prove himself.  Why starve and get daily beatings when you can live in comfort and move up in influence?

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, Canada said:

I feel like this entire season was just filler and nothing really happened

This entire season could have been a 6 hour mini at most. It's not like the filler episodes were great character studies. 

I don't think Eugene is nearly as smart as he thinks he is but he is really the only one with a shred of strategy. Everything is fight fight fight all the time for the last 6 years. That's not the only option. 

[nodorothyparker]

A couple of episodes leading up to the Sophia reveal were beyond tedious (see, the nonsense with the well walker) but it was a huge turning point where our crew finally had to begin thinking bigger picture instead of treating the ZA mostly as a temporary inconvenience they just had to wait out.  Sophia coming out of the barn was where hope that the world could ever be the same died, and the whole back half of that season from Rick killing the two in the bar to eventually killing Shane and losing the farm was about coming to terms with that.  It's one of the bigger moments of the show that felt organic and made sense for me too.

As far as Eugene goes, I fully expect there to be a point where he's a deciding factor in the war to come as he weighs his options and costs and determines that his safer bet isn't the guy who murdered his longtime friend and protector for funsies.  But that probably won't come until Rick actually looks like the safer bet.

[Kim0820]

On 4/8/2017 at 7:31 AM, rmontro said:

I get your point, although a fresh walker should still be considered dangerous.  And there are less fresh walkers around these days.  There's a theory that the walkers are slowly going extinct as they rot away.  We see this as they have become easier to kill as the seasons go by, in fact we've seen some of them just fall apart on their own basically.  Many think that this is by design.  But a walker who has just turned should be more dangerous.

My nephew reviewed the comics, and said that the walkers in general weaken and get slower.  In theory most people know what their danger is and how to kill them by now, and to prevent turning by shooting corpses in the head, so their numbers should go down.  Now the emphasis is on how the world is after they destroyed civilization.  Then eventual elimination of them and re-establishing civilization.  

But I did find it more interesting when they were trying to figure out whether they retained any vestige of the person they had been or what the virus was and how to defeat it.  We saw in the first season that the CDC in Atlanta is gone, but still some doctors would have survived and tried to find out what it was and how to defeat it.  Maybe they will get to something like that in future seasons.  This Neagan thing is taking too long!

[ganesh]

I can't imagine there aren't people somewhere working on it. I know the show can cover everything everywhere, but it seems like they're looking at the same aspect of society over and over. 

[ByTor]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:11 AM, ghoulina said:

When Carl Poppa was surrounded by Negan and his men, I knew deep down he wasn't going to get killed. He, Rick, and Judith are the most untouchable characters on this show. But in the moment, I got a little freaked out. And I actually thought - "We need Carol or Shiva, one. Right now!" And boom! There weren't Shiva! It was awesome. Zeke was awesome. Carol and Morgan were awesome. I just enjoyed that entire sequence of them showing up, then Hilltop showing up....and that music. What WAS that? It was straight out of an 80s movie and I LOVED it. Very good stuff towards the end. 

Checking in over a week late since I just watched yesterday.  I didn't think we needed Carol & Shiva right now...I out & out yelled it!  Well, I yelled "Carol, Tiger (I forgot her name haha) where are you?!?!?!?!?"  Zeke, Morgan, and yes, Carol (I take back all my bitching about her, she totally redeemed herself to me) were all awesome.  Watching Carol come back, guns-a-blazing, was pretty hot...as was FPP all decked out in his fatherly attire.  And I thought I was the only one who liked the music!  

Was this finale perfect?  Nope, but I did enjoy the hell out of it.

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live +3 ratings are in for "The First Day of the Rest of Your Life":

The Season 7 finale of “The Walking Dead” had the show’s best overnight ratings in seven weeks, and its first set of DVR/on-demand ratings are a seven-week high as well.

The finale rose from a 5.4 to a 7.6 rating among adults 18-49 with three days of delayed viewing, the best showing for “The Walking Dead” since the Feb. 12 episode had a 7.7 after three days. Its 15.637 million viewers were also the best since then.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/walking-dead-finale-predictably-dominates-cable-live-3-ratings-for-march-27-april-2/

Here, then, are the Live + Same Day and Live +3 ratings for Season 7, in full:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million; 15.932 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million; 15.243 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million; 14.740 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million; 13.669 million
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million; 13.682 million
03-19-17 “The Other Side” 10.318 million; 13.880 million
03-26-17 “Something They Need” 10.543 million; 14.014 million
04-02-17 “The First Day of the Rest of Your Life” 11.314 million; 15.637 million

Just for comparison, here are the Live + Same Day and Live +3 ratings for the Season 6 finale:

04-03-16 “Last Day on Earth” 14.193 million; 18.427 million

Curious, that.

[TigerLynx]

21 hours ago, Canada said:

I feel like this entire season was just filler and nothing really happened.  You could leave out the entire season and it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the storyline.  The people who make this show need to take some time off and figure out what the hell they want to do with the show, because they just destroyed it this season.  It was a complete waste of time.  It can be summed up as: Negan talked, Sasha died, there was a tiger.  That's it.

But at least there was a Tiger.

There have been filler episodes in other seasons that were really boring, but I feel like now the season finales have a lot of filler, and go nowhere as well.

Rosita got Eugene to make a bullet for her, and Eugene is now at Negan's compound.  Rosita told Sasha she needed her help killing Negan, and Sasha ended up a prisoner, Zombie by her own hand, and dead.  Rosita should tell Negan she needs his help, and then maybe finally Negan will be dead, and will stop talking.  I wonder if Negan returned as a zombie if he would still be yacking 24/7.

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, Canada said:

 

I feel like this entire season was just filler and nothing really happened.  You could leave out the entire season and it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the storyline.  The people who make this show need to take some time off and figure out what the hell they want to do with the show, because they just destroyed it this season.  It was a complete waste of time.  It can be summed up as: Negan talked, Sasha died, there was a tiger.  That's it.

 

Bravo! I agree entirely. The only thing is, I think the showrunners know exactly what they want to do with this show. Ride "epic villains" and "cool, new zombie" kills out for the next ten years and infinity times infinity. They don't care about content anymore. 

[ByTor]

On 4/7/2017 at 0:43 PM, smorbie said:

I didn't laugh when Negan kept talking while the fighting was going on.  All I could do was wonder what on EARTH could possibly make him SHUT UP!  Yes, it's funny in retrospect, but while it was happening, no.

awwww admit it, you had to have chuckled at Negan's reaction to Shiva :)

[ByTor]

23 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I guess I'm the only one who can put myself in Eugene's shoes and doesn't blame him for his defection. What did he have in Alexandria? He lost his best friend, Abe (who  put him down and punched him out but still, he was there) so he has Rosita who treats him like a dog and speaks to him like he's garbage (she may have reason, but again, nothing for him to hang around for). He ends up at the Sanctuary, where people and even Negan treat him as though he's worthwhile. All he has to do in return is say he's Negan and he gets to live high on the hog. I'm no hero either, so I get why he did this.

This!

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

 I wonder if Negan returned as a zombie if he would still be yacking 24/7.

A zombie Negan, walking around with Lucille on its shoulder, moving in that same stiff gait, and constantly working its mouth and making sounds.  Would be awesome.

[Gobi]

9 minutes ago, Dobian said:

A zombie Negan, walking around with Lucille on its shoulder, moving in that same stiff gait, and constantly working its mouth and making sounds.  Would be awesome.

Especially if he was always bent backwards!

[AwesomO4000]

Okay, okay, I know I just can't let things go (first it was Chekov's lamp in Sasha's cell), but I still don't get why the Garbage Pail Kids wanted people. What exactly would slaves be doing for them? Rearranging trash? They would have to feed these slaves - otherwise they would last maybe a couple of months... tops. Now maybe slave labor makes sense if the Garbage Gang actually had a useful resource on site for the slaves to work at - like say a garden or domestic animals - but as far as I can see they don't. In terms of practicality, they can't exactly send slaves off to look for food, because they'd just run away. So it seems to me more people - that they would have to feed - would be one of the last things that the Garbage Gang would need. How about some food? That's what they need.

Now Negan I can see why he needs people - because he needs canon fodder and people to do grunt work and foraging and such - and I can see why he'd consider people a valuable "resource," but the Garbage Gang, to me them wanting people - unless, as I wondered, if it's for the sick reason of wanting to eat the people - just doesn't make sense resource-wise. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me people aren't a "better deal" than a whole bunch of guns. And if the "better deal" was Negan saying the Garbage Gang will be left alone.... yeah right. No one should believe that one.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

awwww admit it, you had to have chuckled at Negan's reaction to Shiva :)

No.  I admit now it was funny.  But, I was too shocked it had happened, to relieved about Coral, and too worried about Shiva to laugh at anything.]

Plus, I hate, hate, hate him, and really wanted him to just shut up and die.

[smorbie]

On 4/9/2017 at 5:13 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I guess I'm the only one who can put myself in Eugene's shoes and doesn't blame him for his defection. What did he have in Alexandria? He lost his best friend, Abe (who  put him down and punched him out but still, he was there) so he has Rosita who treats him like a dog and speaks to him like he's garbage (she may have reason, but again, nothing for him to hang around for). He ends up at the Sanctuary, where people and even Negan treat him as though he's worthwhile. All he has to do in return is say he's Negan and he gets to live high on the hog. I'm no hero either, so I get why he did this.

I've made several comments about that upthread.  He had no way of knowing Rick and the rest of the Scooby gang were ever going to mutiny against Negan.  As far as he knew, he was in the sanctuary for life.  They were being good to him.  He could fight against them, but that's not really in his nature.  And, he would lose.  He would be like Daryl (although he doesn't know how Daryl was treated).  Or he could take the good life that was being offered to him.  I don't blame him one bit.

19 hours ago, Gobi said:

To a certain degree, I can accept it as a reaction to all the random deaths in the ZA. People may have  become  numb to sudden deaths, and realize that anyone  can die at any time. Although, that isn't really how it's been portrayed.

When too much bad piles up, we tend to shut down emotionally, just move on, and then deal with the tragedy later.  That's what you're seeing with Carol.  

[smorbie]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

I can't imagine there aren't people somewhere working on it. I know the show can cover everything everywhere, but it seems like they're looking at the same aspect of society over and over. 

Well, these are the characters of the show.  It's not like Daryl is going to suddenly take a bath, don a lab coat, snatch up some beakers, and cook up a cure.

And to just randomly switch to other unknown characters would be jarring and not the normal way the show tends to handle things.

The only way they could do it is to have one of the gang stumble upon a lab (they ARE near Washington,so it could happen), and discover someone is working on a cure.  And then people would scream that it was a bottle episode.

54 minutes ago, Dobian said:

A zombie Negan, walking around with Lucille on its shoulder, moving in that same stiff gait, and constantly working its mouth and making sounds.  Would be awesome.

It's probably the only way I could enjoy him.

30 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Okay, okay, I know I just can't let things go (first it was Chekov's lamp in Sasha's cell), but I still don't get why the Garbage Pail Kids wanted people. What exactly would slaves be doing for them? Rearranging trash? They would have to feed these slaves - otherwise they would last maybe a couple of months... tops. Now maybe slave labor makes sense if the Garbage Gang actually had a useful resource on site for the slaves to work at - like say a garden or domestic animals - but as far as I can see they don't. In terms of practicality, they can't exactly send slaves off to look for food, because they'd just run away. So it seems to me more people - that they would have to feed - would be one of the last things that the Garbage Gang would need. How about some food? That's what they need.

Now Negan I can see why he needs people - because he needs canon fodder and people to do grunt work and foraging and such - and I can see why he'd consider people a valuable "resource," but the Garbage Gang, to me them wanting people - unless, as I wondered, if it's for the sick reason of wanting to eat the people - just doesn't make sense resource-wise. Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me people aren't a "better deal" than a whole bunch of guns. And if the "better deal" was Negan saying the Garbage Gang will be left alone.... yeah right. No one should believe that one.

That's what I thought at first but a couple of people mentioned upthread that Negan has probably taken some of the heapsters captive and No-English was negotiation for their return.

[AwesomO4000]

18 minutes ago, smorbie said:

That's what I thought at first but a couple of people mentioned upthread that Negan has probably taken some of the heapsters captive and No-English was negotiation for their return.

Ah, okay, I somehow missed that, and I suppose that would make sense. Except wouldn't defeating Negan be a better way to get their people back in that case? Because how long will it be before Negan comes and takes away the Heapsters' guns, more people, etc. for the war that's now going to happen? The only guarantee for that not to have happened would've been Negan defeated. They don't even have a guarantee that they are going to get their people back. If Negan indeed does have Heapster people, he already negotiated down the number of people he'd give back, and now with his war coming, I'm guessing the chances aren't good that they are going to get those people back... at least not without giving up their guns or something else that is.

If indeed that was the deal, it doesn't sound to me like a very smart one, because as I said, they already are getting back only 10 of their people instead of their original 12... if they get even them back.

[AngelaHunter]

11 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Except wouldn't defeating Negan be a better way to get their people back in that case?

They don't bother.

55 minutes ago, smorbie said:

 Or he could take the good life that was being offered to him.  I don't blame him one bit.

Nor do I. He risked a lot by giving Sasha the poison pill and showed fortitude standing up to Negan's questioning and Death Glare. What's he supposed to do - go out in a blaze of glory? No one would care anyway. He's totally alone so may as well look after No.1

[smorbie]

10 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Ah, okay, I somehow missed that, and I suppose that would make sense. Except wouldn't defeating Negan be a better way to get their people back in that case? Because how long will it be before Negan comes and takes away the Heapsters' guns, more people, etc. for the war that's now going to happen? The only guarantee for that not to have happened would've been Negan defeated. They don't even have a guarantee that they are going to get their people back. If Negan indeed does have Heapster people, he already negotiated down the number of people he'd give back, and now with his war coming, I'm guessing the chances aren't good that they are going to get those people back... at least not without giving up their guns or something else that is.

If indeed that was the deal, it doesn't sound to me like a very smart one, because as I said, they already are getting back only 10 of their people instead of their original 12... if they get even them back.

This is an example of negotiating with bullies, criminals, or rogue governments.  This is how it plays out EVERY SINGLE TIME.   In this case, however, could two more odious groups be negotiating?  My hatred for them both really lowers my ability to care.  Negan has however many heapsters?  Kill them all, I don't care.  The heapsters grow tired or negotiating with an evil person?  Dump garbage on him or run over him with the garbage truck.  Or better yet, sentence them to have long incomprehensible and backwards leaning soliloquys at each other.  Just don't invite me to the party.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, ByTor said:

awwww admit it, you had to have chuckled at Negan's reaction to Shiva :)

And when he saw Maggie:  "That widow is alive!  Guns ablazing!  Taste that, Simon?  That's the taste of s---"

[ByTor]

11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Nor do I. He risked a lot by giving Sasha the poison pill and showed fortitude standing up to Negan's questioning and Death Glare. What's he supposed to do - go out in a blaze of glory? No one would care anyway. He's totally alone so may as well look after No.1

The bolded part reminds me of the one thing that's annoying me, that is, the speech Tara gave Oceanside about not fighting with them.  Yeah, Negan did horrible things to them, but they became a self-sufficient community with weapons & they weren't under Negan's thumb.  She says "coward", I say "smart."  I'm with their leader whose name escapes me at the moment, I wouldn't want to give them a single weapon either.

23 minutes ago, rmontro said:

And when he saw Maggie:  "That widow is alive!  Guns ablazing!  Taste that, Simon?  That's the taste of s---"

I feel like such an idiot whenever I see that comment!  I don't know how, but somehow I missed Negan seeing Maggie & thought the widow thing was about Sasha & thought what the hell is he talking about, she's a walker, not a living widow! :)

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, smorbie said:

And to just randomly switch to other unknown characters would be jarring and not the normal way the show tends to handle things.

They did find someone at Woodbury who was at least trying to do something sciency, but the show played him for a fool. They found the CDC guy who just killed himself. So the show was always anti science. I know these are the characters we have, but I just fundamentally disagree with TPTBs characterization of people in this world because we've basically only seen three types of people in 7 years. It's ridiculous. 

[smorbie]

It's not been quite two years for them.  Society is still adjusting.  The world is barbarous.  There is no law, no 911, no help to protect or save them.  They are starting over.

I don't think the show is anti science.  it's just that curing the disease is not the focus of the show.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

The bolded part reminds me of the one thing that's annoying me, that is, the speech Tara gave Oceanside about not fighting with them.  Yeah, Negan did horrible things to them, but they became a self-sufficient community with weapons & they weren't under Negan's thumb.  She says "coward", I say "smart."  I'm with their leader whose name escapes me at the moment, I wouldn't want to give them a single weapon either.

I feel like such an idiot whenever I see that comment!  I don't know how, but somehow I missed Negan seeing Maggie & thought the widow thing was about Sasha & thought what the hell is he talking about, she's a walker, not a living widow! :)

Her name's Bewuldia or something.  No one has a normal name anymore.  It's like it's been a hundred years instead of two and people have forgotten how to talk or name themselves.

And, lol.  Though I can understand trying hard not to listen when Negan expels air because he talks every time he does.

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, smorbie said:

 Or better yet, sentence them to have long incomprehensible and backwards leaning soliloquys at each other.

With music, like a Rap Battle.  Okay, that would be awesome.

[smorbie]

9 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

With music, like a Rap Battle.  Okay, that would be awesome.

You've just named the only thing that possibly make it worse.

[ganesh]

I don't think the show should ever get into the cause, but I do think they are generally anti science and tech because they played the one science guy as a fool, and we never see people doing techy things. Everyone is always just fighting. I'll concede the kingdom to a point, but I think mine is valid. 

[TigerLynx]

3 hours ago, ByTor said:

The bolded part reminds me of the one thing that's annoying me, that is, the speech Tara gave Oceanside about not fighting with them.  Yeah, Negan did horrible things to them, but they became a self-sufficient community with weapons & they weren't under Negan's thumb.  She says "coward", I say "smart."  I'm with their leader whose name escapes me at the moment, I wouldn't want to give them a single weapon either.

And every time a "kill Negan plan" doesn't work, it makes Rick's group look dumber and dumber.  At one time, some of Rick's group were competent, and had functioning brain cells, but in order for the Negan SL to drag on, everyone has to be an idiot.  I'm still annoyed Zombie Sasha didn't get to eat Negan or Simon's face off.  Shiva saving Rick and Carl was great, but I still wanted Zombie Sasha to take out some Saviors.

Quote

I don't think the show should ever get into the cause, but I do think they are generally anti science and tech because they played the one science guy as a fool, and we never see people doing techy things. Everyone is always just fighting. I'll concede the kingdom to a point, but I think mine is valid.

This.  I agree.  I can understand why trying to find a cure or a cause for whatever makes zombies wouldn't be a priority when so many people are just trying to survive the ZA.  I find it believable that psychos and dangerous groups would take advantage of the breakdown of society.  What I continue to find unbelievable is that everyone still alive is either a psycho or an idiot.

[nodorothyparker]

58 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't think the show should ever get into the cause, but I do think they are generally anti science and tech because they played the one science guy as a fool, and we never see people doing techy things. Everyone is always just fighting. I'll concede the kingdom to a point, but I think mine is valid. 

I'll concur.  The show has consistently portrayed anyone who isn't a badass with a near immediate kill 'em all philosophy as weak.  They usually only exist to die horribly to prove that they were naive or foolish or pick your adjective of choice and that they should have listened to Rick.  I can only assume Eugene has lasted as long as he has because he's a canon comic character.

The science guy was Milton.  I liked that he was at least trying to understand the physiology of walkers and the world they inhabit now even if he didn't get very far with it or have the means to do it properly.  One of his more amusing scenes was trying to question Herschel about the amputation that had saved him from a walker bite.  But of course for as smart he otherwise seemed, he got to play the fool for the Governor and died as a result.

[ganesh]

I think the fundamental issue behind all this is that TPTBs just never fully thought out the show universe. I mean, theres no ham radio hobbyists? What an easy way to world build. 

[nodorothyparker]

Ironically, the far inferior FTWD did include ham radio people briefly in its world building.  Of course, it used them to convey the interesting stuff happening that they didn't want to spend money to show us.

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

They did find someone at Woodbury who was at least trying to do something sciency, but the show played him for a fool.

Yes, Milton was almost a caricature of a dweeby science geek. It was only the talent of the actor that kept him real and sympathetic.

 

31 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

 One of his more amusing scenes was trying to question Herschel about the amputation that had saved him from a walker bite.

That was a wonderful scene, in every way - intelligent, humourous and charming. We so seldom get to see anyone interacting or connecting on a really human level.

[TigerLynx]

I understand why Eugene could be seen as weak or a coward.  I also understand why Eugene would want to survive.  What's more I completely understand why someone from modern times who found some of the creature comforts they used to have prior to the ZA would want to keep them.  Negan, his harem, and various henchmen telling Eugene he is now one of them would appeal to a lot of people.  Unfortunately, for Eugene Negan's group is a bunch of rabid dogs that will turn on each other.  When there is nothing left to scavenge, Negan's group will get worse because they destroy, they don't build.

The communities to join on this show would be the Kingdom or Oceanside, but now that they have had contact with Rick's group, it's just a matter of time before they all end up dead.

If Shiva ends up dead after saving Rick and Carl, I am going to be so annoyed.

Edited April 11, 2017 by TigerLynx

[smorbie]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the fundamental issue behind all this is that TPTBs just never fully thought out the show universe. I mean, theres no ham radio hobbyists? What an easy way to world build. 

Your problem lies with Kirkman, not so much the writers of the show.  He is in total control

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

The communities to join on this show would be the Kingdom or Oceanside, but now that they have had contact with Rick's group, it's just a matter of time before they all end up dead.

The sad thing is, Oceanside wasn't even a blip on Negan's radar.  Prediction...Negan will somehow find out they gave their weapons to Rick & he'll be after them.  And then there will be comments that it was only a matter of time before Negan would show up anyway, but that is simply not true (or should I say not particularly likely) in Oceanside's case, he had no idea where they were & for all this time never cared to look.

Edited April 11, 2017 by ByTor

[KirkB]

I'm willing to bet that if the show ever revisits Oceanside (probably in another Tara episode) we will discover that everyone there is dead, or undead, because Rick and company stole all their guns and rang the walker dinner bell with those explosions.

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

If Shiva ends up dead after saving Rick and Carl, I am going to be so annoyed.

If she's alive, after the Neganites shooting at her with automatic weapons, I will be amazed. Yeah, I know - her survival shouldn't surprise me any more than does Rick's after he was engulfed in walkers.

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

If she's alive, after the Neganites shooting at her with automatic weapons, I will be amazed. Yeah, I know - her survival shouldn't surprise me any more than does Rick's after he was engulfed in walkers.

Shiva definitely survived the first battle, you can see her at the end, lying next to the stage.

[TigerLynx]

19 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Shiva definitely survived the first battle, you can see her at the end, lying next to the stage.

That doesn't mean Shiva will survive the war.  Given the track record so far, Rick and Co. will continue to try and kill Negan, they will fail, and someone not named Negan or Rick will die.  The longer this goes on, the dumber they will look.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

Given the track record so far, Rick and Co. will continue to try and kill Negan, they will fail,

They have no excuse to fail. The Negans, even with automatic weapons, couldn't hit a giant tiger at close range.

I just have to say that this last minute cavalry charge - coming just as someone is one nano-second from getting his head smashed (exactly the same thing happened at Terminus with Glenn) - was exciting in Westerns back in the '60s. Now it's a huge eye-roller. How many more times will that be trotted out?

[mightysparrow]

On 4/11/2017 at 6:56 AM, ByTor said:

The bolded part reminds me of the one thing that's annoying me, that is, the speech Tara gave Oceanside about not fighting with them.  Yeah, Negan did horrible things to them, but they became a self-sufficient community with weapons & they weren't under Negan's thumb.  She says "coward", I say "smart."  I'm with their leader whose name escapes me at the moment, I wouldn't want to give them a single weapon either.

 

I completely agree with this.  Oceanside has a big a reason to hate Negan as CDB, if not bigger.  The leader of Oceanside can say to Rick 'you still have your son with you'.  Oceanside is a successful community.  More successful than even the Kingdom because King Ezekiel pays tribute to Negan.

I think it's a good thing to remember that Oceanside wasn't the first time that Tara has accompanied an armed group of people as they rolled up on a community.  That's how she met the good folks of CDB.  What makes this time even more galling is that Oceanside went against it's own rules and spared her useless life.  And that's how she repaid them. 

The war against Negan is NOT Oceanside's fight.  There are probably a lot of people in the community who want revenge for what the Saviours did to them, but Oceanside is a Negan-free zone.  Why should they want to attract his attention by joining with a group of people whose idea of negotiation is to sneak up on them, 'guns ablazing'?

I wouldn't be surprised if the people of Oceanside join the long list of people who suffer for Rick Grimes' never-ending selfishness and stupidity.  He'll put his arm around his son and his increasingly brain-dead girlfriend, get someone else (probably the closest available Black man) to carry Shane's baby and leave the bodies of the people who trusted him to rot.

Edited April 12, 2017 by mightysparrow

[ByTor]

21 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

The war against Negan is NOT Oceanside's fight.  There are probably a lot of people in the community who want revenge for what the Saviours did to them, but Oceanside is a Negan-free zone.  Why should they want to attract his attention by joining with a group of people whose idea of negotiation is to sneak up on them, 'guns ablazing'?

This.  

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, ByTor said:

4 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

The war against Negan is NOT Oceanside's fight.  There are probably a lot of people in the community who want revenge for what the Saviours did to them, but Oceanside is a Negan-free zone.  Why should they want to attract his attention by joining with a group of people whose idea of negotiation is to sneak up on them, 'guns ablazing'?

This.  

Have to disagree with this, for one simple reason: Negan is all about control.

Did Oceanside escape Negan's control?  Part of it would appear to have done so - in the immediate sense, anyway.  I would argue, however, that such is not exactly the case:

1. Negan has shown on multiple occasions his primary focus is control - obtaining control over everyone and everything, exerting and reinforcing that control whenever it even appears to be questioned, and re-acquiring control whenever his grip appears to have slipped.  I mean, c'mon now - we saw Negan go batshit crazy over Daryl's escape, and that was just one guy.  Does anybody really think Negan is going to forget the escape of an ENTIRE COMMUNITY?  Or that Negan's reaction to Oceanside's departure in the dark will be a simple "C'est la vie"?  On the contrary; although it hasn't been a featured item in the series, I'd bet dollars to donuts Negan has several crews ramming the roads around the clock hunting for the Oceansiders - if only to kill every one of them as a demonstration in discouragement to any other groups contemplating defection.
2. Everything I mentioned in #1?  Oceanside knows all this.  They're hiding in the woods.  Their standing orders are to kill any stranger who happens upon them, whether that stranger has anything to do with the Saviors or not.  While Oceanside may have temporarily escaped Negan's direct control, his existence continues to indirectly control every facet of their existence.

Thus, I think it could hardly be truthfully said that Oceanside is "Negan-free"; fear of recapture by Negan drives their existence. 

Freedom and temporary respite from capture are two different things - and this is precisely why Negan IS Oceanside's fight, because Oceanside will never be truly free so long as Negan and the Saviors still rule.  No freer than a rabbit afraid to come out of its hole for fear of the hunter outside, at least.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Nashville