S05.E06: Marion

[peacheslatour]

1 minute ago, Mick Lady said:

Really!? That's just awesome! I didn't know that, and you're right, that is genius.

I wouldn't be the least surprised if Hitch himself did the stabbing. :)

[ganesh]

I thought he did.

[Spartan Girl]

You know, the way Sam hollered "What are you doooooing?!" when Marion destroyed his car reminded me so much of Julienne Moore's character in Crazy Stupid Love wailed "What are you saaaaaaying?" when the babysitter called her out on her cheating. I can't stand it when cheaters try to make themselves out to be the victims.

Especially after Sam had the gall to hide in the bathroom to answer his side piece's call right when his wife was confronting him. And then continued to lie to her face about everything.

[Mick Lady]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

They got that sound by stabbing a melon. Also in the movie that scene took six days to shoot with seventy seven different camera angles and 50 cuts.Talk about editing genius.

Do you remember where you read this? I never can remember where I pick up stuff like this, but if you do, let me know!

I get into this kind of stuff with Supernatural, but I've read so much, (in 12 years!), I can never site where I've found the nuances I've read.

Hitchcock is of course, a much more complex director than the Supernatural team, but I have my addictions! Being a math major, I missed out on the arts, and I'm trying to catch up now. I now wish I had taken a film class in college!

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Do you remember where you read this?

I did a little googling and a site came up with an article called something like "10 Things You Didn't Know About Psycho".

[Mick Lady]

Thanks! I'll check it out. Hope it ends well.

My problem is that Supernatural is what Mick and I call "our show" A few years ago someone on TWoP gave me a link to Super-wiki (yes there is such a thing!) and I went down a rabbit hole like you wouldn't believe! Just the other day I was waiting for our new washer and dryer to be delivered, and killed six hours surfing it!

I'm not proud.

[Mick Lady]

Aw hell! Rabbit hole again! This video is great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm-9E275D9c

It's a breakdown on how Hitchcock manipulates the audience during the filming of Psycho.

[Snaporaz]

1 hour ago, Mick Lady said:

Do you remember where you read this? I never can remember where I pick up stuff like this, but if you do, let me know!

I get into this kind of stuff with Supernatural, but I've read so much, (in 12 years!), I can never site where I've found the nuances I've read.

Hitchcock is of course, a much more complex director than the Supernatural team, but I have my addictions! Being a math major, I missed out on the arts, and I'm trying to catch up now. I now wish I had taken a film class in college!

I had a class in Hitchcock film when I was in college, and one of our textbooks was "Hitchcock/Truffaut", a series of very candid interviews François Truffaut conducted with Hitch.  It's the best insight into his methods and motives that I've read, and it's one of the few textbooks I didn't sell at the end of the semester!  I checked and it's available on Amazon.  (There is a recent documentary featuring these same interviews, but it also features contemporary directors waxing poetic about how Hitchcock influenced their work.  I didn't like the movie, but I highly recommend the book.)

Poor Austin Nichols...so pretty, but he 

Spoiler

keeps playing rat bastards who get stabbed!

I thought it was interesting that Norman encouraged Marion to take the money and start a new life.  In the movie, Norman unwittingly convinced Marion to step out of her private trap and go back to Phoenix and return the money.

[Cotypubby]

6 hours ago, DonitsYum said:

Was the music at the beginning, when Marion drives to the motel, the same as the film?  If not, it was still a good choice.  

It was very similar to the music used in the film during that scene, but slightly different, so that it wasn't just lifted from the original.

[Avaleigh]

On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 0:14 AM, giovannif7 said:

That twist was the first big misstep in the series, IMHO. I'm having trouble articulating why the switch in shower victims didn't work for me. The closest I can get is that I've always thought that Norman's killings (in the original film) were reactive, based on either inner turmoil between the Mother personality and the Norman personality, or straight up fear. This episode's murder of Sam Loomis was an act of anger and retribution, and appeared to be a result of Norman agreeing with Mother that Loomis deserved to die. Loomis was no threat to Norman, and lust was not an issue. Add in the lack of a wig and dress during the murder, and Norman's altered line "Oh Mother, what have I done..." - and it's clear that Series Norman's version of mental illness makes him far more proactively aggressive than Film Norman was.

I was also disappointed at the lack of shrieking violins during the murder, as well as the missing crossfade from the shot of water circling the shower drain to the closeup of the victim's eye. Such classic sound and imagery!

I actually liked the twist and was cringing at the idea of a bunch of people tuning in just to see Rihanna's character die. It grossed me out in the way that it grossed me out when people wanted to see Paris Hilton "die" in some horror movie from over a decade ago or so. (Wow, I feel old realizing how long ago that was.)

I agree with you though that this episode felt like a misstep in comparison to all of the others. For me it wasn't successfully executed and I feel like it's a weak point in the overall series. It's certainly the only time where I've been underwhelmed and rolling my eyes since this show is usually so excellent.

Pros: I loved everything with Norman and "Norma" and agree with those who feel that Freddie (and Vera) are long overdue for some nominations and awards. I especially liked Norman figuring things out and full on confronting his madness. Really terrific stuff and I haven't seen anything like it on any other show. 

I also really liked Norman acknowledging that eating Norma's food would be eating "pretend" food.**

I applaud the decision to not kill Marion in the shower. The tension in that scene was excellent and I like the observation that Hitchcock woukd have approved.

The stuff with Dylan was great too.

Cons:

Oh boy. To me, the Rihanna stuff felt like the cheesiest Lifetime movie. Again, I'm glad that she wasn't killed but if I was honestly supposed to be rooting for her and experiencing some woohoo! sort of moment where I'm clapping my hands in delight as she smashes up that asshole's car in front of the house and see that as a display of female empowerment---I'm sorry, I just can't. I thought it was laughably over the top, like some clip from the show Cheaters. 

Similarly, I'm supposed to be happy for her because she seems to have successfully stolen money from her employer and this too somehow ties into theme of female empowerment? Ugh, I just have so many problems with that. 

Then there's the character of Marion in general. I feel like the showrunners failed if we were supposed to find her at all interesting or intriguing. 

All I'm getting from the showrunners about why Rihanna was cast is that she's a name and she's a fan of the show. I wonder if a more capable actress could have made Marion more memorable or exciting. I will acknowledge that Rihanna didn't have much to work with but I think a big difference between the two Marions is that Leigh's Marion has that moment when she upsets Norman feels uncomfortable when she realizes that she's disturbed this weird guy by giving him advice about his mother. 

**Questions:

Regarding the moment where Norman acknowledges that a meal prepared by Norma would be  pretend food--this confused me and I'm wondering if anyone can explain it to me. 

The first time that Dylan saw Norman as Norma, am I wrong in thinking that Norman was in the kitchen cooking the way that Norma would have been if she'd been there? My understanding was that Norman was playing both roles so that if Norma decided to cook that Norman would do it for her. Norma wants to have sex, Norman has sex for her. So why isn't he cooking as Norma anymore? Instead it seems like he's imagining her doing it as opposed to acting it out himself. 

I also noticed that Norman isn't eating for Norma when he sets the table for two but he does put the food out. 

We know that Norman speaks for both of them and imitates her voice but I was unsure if he was physically struggling with himself Fight Club style or if that was only in his mind. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Avaleigh

[raven]

Good thing Norman killed Sam; he could have been in trouble for giving Sam's address to Marion, especially after she trashed his car, LOL.  I don't think Rihanna is terrible but she is sharing scenes with Freddie, who is much, much better, so her acting suffers by comparison.  Austin Nichols is better than her as well, though he obviously has more acting experience.  I just don't care about Marion's troubles. I mean, she's a thief now too because she didn't get a promotion?  Her boss is an ass?  That happens every day and people don't steal.  I am curious as to whether she will show up back at the motel.

I liked the twist and that the murder scene was a Psycho shot for shot, right down to the eyeball.   The show going with Norman recognizing this other personality and working with it is an interesting direction and - repeating myself - Freddie is doing amazing work; the scenes with Vera are easily the best of any episode (she is amazing as well).   In my eyes, it makes Norman less sympathetic if he is going to accept this other half and effectively condone murder.   Before tonight, Mother was doing the killing and Norman blacked out.  If he is conscious during the murders - well, that is much different to me.  Mother was goading him about Sam so I'll wait to see what happens.  Of course Norman is still psychologically damaged...I just wasn't expecting him to become aware AND accepting of that.   "Oh, Mother, what have I done" rather than "what have YOU done". 

To contradict myself the more I think about it - the argument in the kitchen, the throwing things - Norman obviously was thinking if he ignored Mother she would go away or he could drive her away.  He's unable to do that because of his mental state and ironically the only one he can confide in is Mother.   Dylan's phone call, Marion and her problems...it was all too much, then Sam shows up at the exact wrong time.   

I have no idea how this is going to end up, where Madeleine, Dylan, Romero, the new Sheriff all fit in.  

[Mick Lady]

22 minutes ago, Snaporaz said:

I had a class in Hitchcock film when I was in college, and one of our textbooks was "Hitchcock/Truffaut", a series of very candid interviews François Truffaut conducted with Hitch.  It's the best insight into his methods and motives that I've read, and it's one of the few textbooks I didn't sell at the end of the semester!  I checked and it's available on Amazon.  (There is a recent documentary featuring these same interviews, but it also features contemporary directors waxing poetic about how Hitchcock influenced their work.  I didn't like the movie, but I highly recommend the book.)

Poor Austin Nichols...so pretty, but he 

  Reveal hidden contents

keeps playing rat bastards who get stabbed!

I thought it was interesting that Norman encouraged Marion to take the money and start a new life.  In the movie, Norman unwittingly convinced Marion to step out of her private trap and go back to Phoenix and return the money.

Thank you Snaporaz! I am really enjoying getting into the deeper meanings of films from the directors prospective. I know nothing about this and I'm finding it fascinating! I'm going to order that book!

You and Peach are costing me a lot of money, but it's well worth it!

[DangerousMinds]

On March 28, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Fable said:

I agree with this. 

I know some people were disappointed in the shower scene, but I really appreciated it.  There was some poetic justice in Norman killing Sam for abusing women.  When he killed his father, he was in a fugue state and had no memory of it.  With Loomis, it seems he was finally able to acknowledge his anger towards his father and what he had done to him and Norma. 

Killing Marion was anticipated and expected, but usually I like the unpredictable, so I’m glad the show runners have made this their own story while still calling back to the movie. 

Sam cheated on his wife, but does that make him an "abuser?"

[Fable]

6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Sam cheated on his wife, but does that make him an "abuser?"

Perhaps disrespected is a better word than abuser.  My point though was that Norman finally owned his anger towards his own father and rightfully or wrongfully took it out on Sam.  

[smorbie]

11 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I wouldn't be the least surprised if Hitch himself did the stabbing. :)

I read that he used something like twenty different actors with various somatoforms and edited them in rapid shots to make the scene more confusing and chaotic.  And I once heard Perkins say none of those actors was him.

9 hours ago, Snaporaz said:

I had a class in Hitchcock film when I was in college, and one of our textbooks was "Hitchcock/Truffaut", a series of very candid interviews François Truffaut conducted with Hitch.  It's the best insight into his methods and motives that I've read, and it's one of the few textbooks I didn't sell at the end of the semester!  I checked and it's available on Amazon.  (There is a recent documentary featuring these same interviews, but it also features contemporary directors waxing poetic about how Hitchcock influenced their work.  I didn't like the movie, but I highly recommend the book.)

Poor Austin Nichols...so pretty, but he 

  Hide contents

keeps playing rat bastards who get stabbed!

I thought it was interesting that Norman encouraged Marion to take the money and start a new life.  In the movie, Norman unwittingly convinced Marion to step out of her private trap and go back to Phoenix and return the money.

But it was very true to our Norman's character.  That's what Norma did time after time; she left town and started over.  He encouraged Bradley to do the same thing.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Sam cheated on his wife, but does that make him an "abuser?"

Yes, it does.  It is abuse of the trust of a spouse to cheat on them.  You are taking the life of the person you are supposed to love more than anyone, and you are purposely destroying that life, stepping on the soul, spirit, and very life force of that person for your own selfish desires.  To build your life on the ashes of someone else's is as damaging as beating the life out of them again and again and again.

[Spartan Girl]

35 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Yes, it does.  It is abuse of the trust of a spouse to cheat on them.  You are taking the life of the person you are supposed to love more than anyone, and you are purposely destroying that life, stepping on the soul, spirit, and very life force of that person for your own selfish desires.  To build your life on the ashes of someone else's is as damaging as beating the life out of them again and again and again.

Yes, and like I said before, he was playing both of them. He didn't have an excuse to cheat, he just wanted to have his cake and eat it too. His lack of respect for his wife was demonstrated in the fact that he hid in the bathroom to take a call from his mistress right when she confronted him about his cheating. And even after that, he continued to deny it. That's sociopathic behavior right there.

[Virtual]

Sam definitely had everything crash down hard on him at once. I can't say he didn't have it coming, especially Marion smashing his car and Madeleine throwing coffee in his face and locking him out of the house. Then Norman brutally stabbed him over and over (I wouldn't say he had THAT coming; Marion and Madeleine's actions toward him were enough to satisfy me, but I'm not about to waste an ounce of sympathy on Sam). I do think this will be the event that causes the wheels in motion for Norman to be caught.

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, smorbie said:

I read that he used something like twenty different actors with various somatoforms and edited them in rapid shots to make the scene more confusing and chaotic.  And I once heard Perkins say none of those actors was him.

I'm going to have to do a Hitchcock film festival after the series ends. That's some tricks right there. 

[Madding crowd]

I was ok with how this went down, but it wasn't scary at all. I'm not ok with idea that Sam deserved to die or that the writers were trying to be politically correct in choosing a victim who 'deserved it". I'm not watching this for vigilante justice. Of course Marion didn't deserve to die, but neither did Sam. The best part of scary movies/shows like this is that is could happen to anyone-that's what is so scary and what it is like in real life.  Both Normans (TV and movie) are sick individuals who have little self control must be stopped.  I do think there was something missing here though. I honestly can't imagine a woman of today being ok with going in alone to such a creepy motel (which had a closed sign on the door), being ok with being alone with Norman or at the very least not locking her room and not coming out until Sam arrived. I would imagine Marion would wait in her car or drive somewhere more populated until her boyfriend arrived.  

In the movie of course, it was a time where people checked into mom and pop hotels all the time and were in some ways more trusting of people.  Someone also mentioned upthread that the decision to not have Norman dress as mother while doing killing was done as to not offend the transgender community. Again, I hope that all the decisions made on the show are on the basis of creative expression and not pandering to perceived political correctness.  Norman is not transgender after all and his dressing as mother has zero to with being transgender. My own intereptation is that in the movie, Norman is wearing the old lady wig and clothes and it creates a visual impact that Vera's more modern Norma doesn't have. I don't wish for Norman to get away with it and continue to kill while suffer such interior turmoil.  I hope he is captured and receives some kind of help and that. Dylan, Emma and Romero survive.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

In the movie of course, it was a time where people checked into mom and pop hotels all the time and were in some ways more trusting of people.

To be fair in the movie Marion got off the main road because of the rain and was so exhausted and hungry she just wanted to get some food an go to sleep. Well she got some food and then she went to sleep...forever. If she hadn't gotten off the main highway she would have gone on to a regular hotel.

[smorbie]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I'm going to have to do a Hitchcock film festival after the series ends. That's some tricks right there. 

Be sure to take in Rope.  It's a whole move shot in one long shot.

[Madding crowd]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

To be fair in the movie Marion got off the main road because of the rain and was so exhausted and hungry she just wanted to get some food an go to sleep. Well she got some food and then she went to sleep...forever. If she hadn't gotten off the main highway she would have gone on to a regular hotel.

Yes I know, I've seen the movie many times and took a Hitchcock course in college. I do think that Marion would have expected mom and pop motels more so then today when those places are often roach motels used by hookers and people who are down and out.

[Ohwell]

Now that I think about it though, maybe present day Marion deliberately chose a hideaway roach motel because since she was a fugitive, she needed to be somewhere where the hotel clerk wouldn't ask questions and would just give her a wink and a nod.  So it wasn't because she was exhausted and hungry; she was on the run and didn't want to draw attention.

[WearyTraveler]

I thought it was because that was the hotel where Sam took her.  He told her he lived in town, but didn't give her his address.  When she stole the money, she was headed Sam's way, and that was the only place she knew there, so she picked the same motel she had already visited and let him know she'd be there waiting for him.

[Ohwell]

Yeah, maybe that's why she chose the place.  I probably wasn't paying much attention.  So Sam needed to be in a hideaway roach motel.  

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, smorbie said:

Be sure to take in Rope.  It's a whole move shot in one long shot.

Second to Psycho that is my favorite Hitchcock movie. It's not actually one long shot but almost. From Wikipedia:

 

Quote

The film was produced by Hitchcock and Sidney Bernstein as the first of their Transatlantic Pictures productions. Starring James Stewart, John Dall and Farley Granger, this is the first of Hitchcock's Technicolor films, and is notable for taking place in real time and being edited so as to appear as a single continuous shot through the use of long takes.[5] It is the second of Hitchcock's "limited setting" films, the first being Lifeboat.[6] The original play was said to be inspired by the real-life murder of 14-year-old Bobby Franks in 1924 by University of Chicago students Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb.

I don't know why I formatted it like that. D'oh!

[Bec]

As a woman, I can see feeling safe alone with Norman. He seems like a nice kid who wouldn't even hurt a fly ;)

Plus I'd be doing some mental calculations in situations like this: "If this skinny kid attacks me, I can take him."

This show has been drawing on both the horror and psychological thriller genres, so I do still think scariness counts for something here, even though that's not the only thing this show has going for it. I do prefer the type of horror that fills you with dread instead of throwing buckets of blood and guts at you just to get a gross-out reaction. This show does dread very well, usually.

I felt zero dread for Sam. It's too easy to come up with logical motives that explains why Norman would kill Sam - he wanted Sam's wife, Sam threatened him earlier, he hates Sam for mistreating someone he cares about. Mother's encouragement is almost superfluous.

It's like what Norman said on the phone with Dylan "Tragedies don't make any sense, that's what makes them so horrible." This murder makes too much sense (relatively speaking, considering it's Norman Bates we're talking about). It's not insane enough. It's weird how it's sort of satisfying, but also kind of anticlimactic, at the same time. It's edging on being a morality tale in which bad things only happen to bad people. That's not how this show used to work.

But come to think of it, maybe that's part of the mind fuck of this episode. To make us, the audience, feel okay with murder right along with Norman. Maybe "am I supposed to be cheering for Norman right now?" is exactly the reaction they're looking for.

I wouldn't go so far as to call this a misstep, though. I'm gonna wait and see how this fits into their endgame. I'm still cautiously optimistic.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 5:16 PM, peacheslatour said:

Second to Psycho that is my favorite Hitchcock movie. It's not actually one long shot but almost. From Wikipedia:

 

I don't know why I formatted it like that. D'oh!

Is that the one where;

Spoiler

The body is in the trunk throughout the movie?

[peacheslatour]

8 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

Is that the one where;

  Hide contents

The body is in the trunk throughout the movie?

Yep.

[smorbie]

On 3/30/2017 at 7:16 PM, peacheslatour said:

Second to Psycho that is my favorite Hitchcock movie. It's not actually one long shot but almost. From Wikipedia:

 

I don't know why I formatted it like that. D'oh!

I love that movie, and Lifeboat, too; althought Tallulah Bankhead almost ruins it for me.  You know originally Hitchcock wanted his cameo to be a body floating by.  I wish he had done that rather than the weight-loss ad.

The Leopold/Lobe story has always fascinated me for some reason.  Maybe I'm sick, too.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The Leopold/Lobe story has always fascinated me for some reason.  Maybe I'm sick, too.

It's the banality of evil. We expect evil to have horns and hooves. When it's just a couple of bland looking trust fund babies it's a shock to the senses.

[smorbie]

That's certainly part of it.  But, I have an interest in evil people in general.  I can't figure out how people who walk among us every day can just be monsters.  I know they've let satan rule their life, but he's fulfilling their desires.  There's something fundamentally wrong, somewhere.

I try not to delve too deeply into that interest.  Being constant surrounded by darkness isn't a positive thing, and I don't want to reach a point where I look at everyone with a suspicious and jaundiced eye.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, smorbie said:

That's certainly part of it.  But, I have an interest in evil people in general.  I can't figure out how people who walk among us every day can just be monsters.  I know they've let satan rule their life, but he's fulfilling their desires.  There's something fundamentally wrong, somewhere.

I try not to delve too deeply into that interest.  Being constant surrounded by darkness isn't a positive thing, and I don't want to reach a point where I look at everyone with a suspicious and jaundiced eye.

Have you read The Gift Of Fear?

[smorbie]

No.  I read People of the Lie, though.  It's about evil among us and it's interesting.  I'll look up the one you recommended. :)

[kieyra]

I'm pretty lost in this convo since I've never seen any version of Psycho, but oof is Rihanna's acting bad.

She pronounces 'aunt' with a different regional accent from one sentence to the next. 

[Ailianna]

I had a tragic loss of internet and TV Monday, so I had to wait for the replay to see the episode today.  And I can't believe I'm the only one who had a long moment of pride in Norman when he talked Marion out of staying at the hotel any longer.  He actually recognized what was happening, and stopped himself and Mother from letting it continue.  It was a real growth moment.  However, when he finally gave in to Mother after that epic fight, it seemed to me that it was his own fear and exhaustion that made him acknowledge her, as much as anything else.  I was so disappointed when he said that, and it was sad and pathetic when the shot moved from Mother holding him, to Norman standing there leaning into nothing.

I'm not 100% sure that it was Norman, entirely, who killed Sam--I just think he knows now that even if Mother does it, it was him doing it.  So whichever one of them killed Sam, it was still Norman.  And I'm not sure he's ready for that understanding.

[Stringey]

2 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I had a tragic loss of internet and TV Monday, so I had to wait for the replay to see the episode today.  And I can't believe I'm the only one who had a long moment of pride in Norman when he talked Marion out of staying at the hotel any longer.  He actually recognized what was happening, and stopped himself and Mother from letting it continue.  It was a real growth moment.  However, when he finally gave in to Mother after that epic fight, it seemed to me that it was his own fear and exhaustion that made him acknowledge her, as much as anything else.  I was so disappointed when he said that, and it was sad and pathetic when the shot moved from Mother holding him, to Norman standing there leaning into nothing.

I'm not 100% sure that it was Norman, entirely, who killed Sam--I just think he knows now that even if Mother does it, it was him doing it.  So whichever one of them killed Sam, it was still Norman.  And I'm not sure he's ready for that understanding.

I believe it was probably a hundred percent Norman doing it this time. Sam represented his dad and mother got him all wired up and angry. The question is will we see more murders committed by Norman or will mother go back in the driver's seat. The thing is now that Norman knows this thing is not Norma how will he interact with her from this point on. 

[Mick Lady]

9 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Have you read The Gift Of Fear?

I have. I carry. I know many find that to be horrible, but I spend time in the wilderness in Idaho. Read the "Missing 411" books by David Paulides, and you'll understand why.

And yes, I'm extremely well trained.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Mick Lady

[Stringey]

9 hours ago, smorbie said:

That's certainly part of it.  But, I have an interest in evil people in general.  I can't figure out how people who walk among us every day can just be monsters.  I know they've let satan rule their life, but he's fulfilling their desires.  There's something fundamentally wrong, somewhere.

I try not to delve too deeply into that interest.  Being constant surrounded by darkness isn't a positive thing, and I don't want to reach a point where I look at everyone with a suspicious and jaundiced eye.

For the topic of non supernatural evil I recommend the movie The Bad Seed. If you like the movie Psycho I can almost guarantee you will like The Bad Seed. I will warn that a couple actors come off as cheesy but the main character turns out to be scary as hell.

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, Stringey said:

For the topic of non supernatural evil I recommend the movie The Bad Seed. If you like the movie Psycho I can almost guarantee you will like The Bad Seed. I will warn that a couple actors come off as cheesy but the main character turns out to be scary as hell.

OMG right? That kid scared the hell out of me. What a soulless monster.  And her poor mother. Jeez.

[Ohwell]

16 hours ago, Stringey said:

For the topic of non supernatural evil I recommend the movie The Bad Seed. If you like the movie Psycho I can almost guarantee you will like The Bad Seed. I will warn that a couple actors come off as cheesy but the main character turns out to be scary as hell.

That movie was so disturbing that they had to introduce the characters at the end to show that the little evil demon wasn't really a monster.

[LocimusPrime]

On March 28, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Ohwell said:

Very disappointed that they didn't follow the movie, and killed Sam instead of Marion.  If they're going that route, then Romero should kill Norman in the end.  

Agreed!  I'm very sympathetic to Romero and he's should get his justice.  Hope he blasts Norman in da face with a shotgun to finish the series. 

[Stringey]

7 minutes ago, LocimusPrime said:

Agreed!  I'm very sympathetic to Romero and he's should get his justice.  Hope he blasts Norman in da face with a shotgun to finish the series. 

Okay I will admit I am disappointed that Marion did not get killed. However I believe Sam deserved to get killed and Marion did deserve to live. It's just the fact that they changed Canon. Now yes of course the series has changed some things which is cool but this was a big thing. However this in no way changes appreciation for the show.  I do not not want to see Norman get killed by romero I really want to see a rebooted ending like the movie.  Mother tricks him and convinces Norman to kill himself to be with real Norma but his body is saved before he succeeds.  Mother has then pretty much taken over and from now on Norman will only come to the surface sometimes. The opposite of the current situation where norman has control most of the time but when he blacks out Norma surfaces.  On this thread previously I wrote in more detail the scenario I was thinking of.

[peacheslatour]

16 hours ago, Ohwell said:

That movie was so disturbing that they had to introduce the characters at the end to show that the little evil demon wasn't really a monster.

After her credit is read, Nancy Kelly gives Patty McCormack a good spanking. Both are visibly laughing, perhaps to remind an unnerved audience that the story they have seen is fictional

[Ohwell]

They also showed the handyman Henry (?) that she burned up, laughing at the end.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

They also showed the handyman Henry (?) that she burned up, laughing at the end.

Oh god that scene where she burned the handyman haunted my dreams. Damn I'd forgotten all about that. 

[Chaos Theory]

My major issue with this version of Norman killing this version of Marion is that it wouldn't have made a lick of sense and been done solely for Psycho movie canon.  

The show has moved so far past the original material that in my mind it has become a jumping off point not a canonical remake that the showmakers decided not to remake.

Norman had no reason at all to kill Marion Crane except canon.  He had every reason to kill Sam Loomis.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

My major issue with this version of Norman killing this version of Marion is that it wouldn't have made a lick of sense and been done solely for Psycho movie canon.  

The show has moved so far past the original material that in my mind it has become a jumping off point not a canonical remake that the showmakers decided not to remake.

Norman had no reason at all to kill Marion Crane except canon.  He had every reason to kill Sam Loomis.

I agree they have really made this version their own. But I do so love the little nods to the movie they sneak in every once in a while.

[AzureOwl]

To take the conversation in a different route for a moment, I've been wondering about something since I checked an inflation calculator and found out that the $40,000 from the 1960 movie would be the equivalent of $329,193.24, so both amounts would be around the same neighborhood. 

Would the $400,000 Marion stole be enough to start a new life? Get a new identity, since presumably she's wanted for theft? What options does she have really?