Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[KirkB]

Actually, if Malcolm wants to build and keep Thea's trust, he'd better tell her. If he sends after the Arrow and she finds out it's Oliver on her own, she's going to come back to him and ask if he knew. If he lies and says know and she later finds out the truth, that's that. If he tells her at that point she's likely to feel betrayed anyway, so it really would be in Malcolm's best interest to tell her as soon as possible. Not to mention doing so would drive a further wedge between her and Oliver and potentially strengthen her bond with him.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yes a lot is subjective but some thing's seem to be easier to interpret (like frowns) and yet I found plenty of scenes where Oliver clearly looks unhappy. Others where he looks distracted or indifferent.

 

 

Oliver or Stephen Amell?  Seriously, I have been wondering if Stephen Amell's personal feelings are coming through in these scenes just like Katie Cassidy's were in the jacket hand-off scene.  He just doesn't seem to be trying that hard, or he's not feeling it, or something.  Sometimes Laurel is interacting with him, and he just looks positively bored.  I feel like Amell just isn't down with this relationship and doesn't really care enough to even try.  Oh, and this is in no way a criticism of Stephen Amell's acting, because I can honestly say that I'm not feeling it either and I find it amusing how one-sided this is coming through on the screen.  Maybe Amell is doing this on purpose so that the EPs will finally let this Lauriver ship die!

Edited May 28, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ohjoy]

Here are a couple of those. 

Thanks!

[KirkB]

Didn't Cassidy say something in an interview about not liking having to kiss the married Amell? If she's uncomfortable acting romantic with him, maybe it's showing through in his interactions with her.

[fantique]

I see them this way as well. However, if the EPs are determined to insinuate Laurel into Team Arrow, I can see them trying to make Laurel "the Conscience" and/or "the Heart" since she really has no useful skills to contribute.  I would hate that.

You have just articulated my very worst nightmare... Just thinking about it makes me angry. But I will try to think positive and pray they are not crazy/blind/stupid enough to even try. Laurel needs to be an auxiliary to Team Arrow. Maybe they can have her there for a few episodes and then she can bow out gracefully (yeah right, as if) and tell him that the hero life is not for her and she will help in other ways. That would make me hate her less, keep KC until the end of S3 (since they seem to have to do that), and show some change in character that can actually be considered growth.

 

I am excited about the Thea/Malcolm alliance. Will it last? Who knows but that's something that I am looking forward to. Thea will become a bad ass. I felt like she had potential to be one and loved when she shot Malcolm. I think that Thea will have an interesting effect on Team Arrow. It could go either way and I would be fine with it as long as it's well done.

[ohjoy]

Oliver or Stephen Amell?  Seriously, I have been wondering if Stephen Amell's personal feelings are coming through in these scenes just like Katie Cassidy's were in the jacket hand-off scene.  He just doesn't seem to be trying that hard, or he's not feeling it, or something.  Sometimes Laurel is interacting with him, and he just looks positively bored.  I feel like Amell just isn't down with this relationship and doesn't really care enough to even try.

If that's the case, I can't give SA a pass when I just ranted about KC doing it. If actors feed off the energy of the people they're acting against, no wonder this seems to get worse with every scene they're in together. I've honestly wondered before, while watching their scenes, what may have happened offscreen that these two can't pretend to like each other onscreen. If the producers are insistent on giving KC a chance to be BC, then these two are just going to be miserable if neither one of them can figure out how to inject some positive energy into their work together.

 

I was scrolling through a few of my old posts at TWoP (reputation points, I hardly knew ye), and I had to laugh when I realized how much Oliver/Laurel has been bothering me since the show started. Apparently Laurel's first scenes with The Hood about did me in for the show completely. The focus on them simply has not worked.

[slayer2]

A Lauriver video would probably be all the Oliver crying and major emoting scenes from the two seasons and just one stock photo of Laurel since that's all KC seems to emote.

Actually I've seen some Lauriver videos that are quite nice. I don't see why one ship must be heralded and the other bashed. I quite enjoy both ships.

Edited May 28, 2014 by slayer2

[quarks]

Wow, those fanvids provide some interesting comparisons, don't they?  What I got from them:

 

1. Laurel/Oliver kissed and made out more than I remembered that they had. More than Sara/Oliver, definitely. That does focus on one of the problems this show is going to have going forward as long as Laurel remains in the show: the time spent on this relationship in the first season, which has and probably will continue to raise expectations with viewers.  But it also reminded me just how unmemorable their hookups were.

 

2. As we've all noted, most of the Laurel/Oliver scenes are from the first season. The exceptions in that vid seem to be coming from City of Heroes, the episode where they agreed that after Tommy's death, they couldn't be together, and The Man Under the Hood. where Laurel investigates Oliver's secret. Kinda emphasizing how little attention this relationship has gotten this season.

 

3. The Laurel/Oliver vid spends a lot more time on each scene; the Felicity/Oliver vid is zipping through a lot of scenes. In both cases, I think, because they can. I didn't bother to count, but the implication is that in two seasons, we've had a lot more Felicity/Oliver scenes than Laurel/Oliver scenes, which I think is true.

 

4. Laurel/Oliver have had more physical contact (less this season), but have less eye contact. Also, the Laurel/Oliver physical contact has been off on. The Felicity/Oliver physical contact has been steadily growing - shoulder touches to hand holding to swinging on ropes to a quick hug to Oliver pulling Felicity in for a tighter hug.

 

5. So I went back to look at the Laurel/Oliver scenes from 1X22, where they hook up. The episode starts with Laurel coming to Oliver and confessing that she thinks she still has feelings for him too. Oliver says he shouldn't have said anything to her since he hasn't changed and walks away. In this scene:

 

Laurel's shoulders are almost always kept back, as if she's leaning away from him.
Oliver's body looks stiff and tense.
Laurel does keep her eyes on him. Oliver's eyes wander all over the place - not just up, but sideways and down on the floor; he rarely seems to be looking at her.

 

In their next scene, Oliver shows up at Laurel's apartment.  She doesn't look happy to see him. Her shoulders are back; her arms are folded across her chest. He talks about the dance they are doing. They are quite a few feet apart at this point - the camera is on him, but not in closeup (you can see down to his chest); even at this distance, only the edge of her face appears in the frame. He then tells her that she knows him better than anyone (STOP THIS, SHOW) and that she's more important to him than anyone. She is then the one to initiate their hookup which very conveniently heads straight to her window so everyone can see it, and the camera pans down to Tommy, showing that this impacts him as well.

 

5. In the Oliver/Felicity vid, you can see the difference: Oliver/Felicity often lean into each other. There's one scene in Blast Radius where his shoulders are slumped back - probably because he's apologizing which isn't something he's good at. Oliver often looks up when he's talking to Felicity, but then puts his eyes back on her face - and never on the floor or to the side. She keeps her eyes on his face.

 

6. Interesting note: As you all may have gathered, I'd repressed the entire Oliver/Laurel scene, so I forgot this, but this hookup happens only because for a moment there Oliver thinks he's going to stop being the Hood and just be Oliver Queen - and that's why he can be with Laurel. It's the only reason he's letting himself be with Laurel.  Which doesn't really bode well for the "once Laurel becomes Black Canary Oliver and Laurel can be together," since what this scene suggests is that the issue is not what Laurel is or isn't doing, but what Oliver is doing.

 

7. This last point has nothing to do with either vid, but I'll just go back to noting that once Oliver/Laurel hookup, the city is in danger and 500+ people die.  Once Oliver confesses some sort of feelings for Felicity, the city gets saved. Hmm.

Edited May 28, 2014 by quarks

[SonofaBiscuit]

If that's the case, I can't give SA a pass when I just ranted about KC doing it. If actors feed off the energy of the people they're acting against, no wonder this seems to get worse with every scene they're in together. I've honestly wondered before, while watching their scenes, what may have happened offscreen that these two can't pretend to like each other onscreen. If the producers are insistent on giving KC a chance to be BC, then these two are just going to be miserable if neither one of them can figure out how to inject some positive energy into their work together.

 

 

I know this is terribly hypocritical, but I do give Amell a pass because he has such enthusiasm for the show, and I feel like he just wants to be involved in something great.  He wants to make his fans happy, and he wants to tell a story that makes sense.  I feel like maybe he knows that the Oliver/Laurel pairing just isn't working, but there's nothing he can do about it because he doesn't write the scripts.  Maybe his lack of enthusiasm in his scenes with Laurel is the only way he feels like he can express how he feels about that whole relationship.

 

With Cassidy, I don't feel like she cares much about the show at all.  She didn't bother promoting it for like 85% of the second season.  Her enthusiasm in the jacket hand-off scene wasn't excitement about making a better show, it was just happiness about the fact that she was finally getting what she wanted.  "Oh well if it makes no sense in the story that the show has been telling all season, I get to be Black Canary, bitches!"

[Carrie Ann]

At least from a PR perspective, Amell does pay lip service to Laurel/KC/Lauriver. Before the Lance Family Drama arc, he was tweeting how great she was in the upcoming episodes, etc. I honestly think he wants the show to be the best it can be. And for now, that includes Katie/Laurel. So he wants her to be great, wants Laurel's story to work, wants their scenes together to be good, etc.

 

But at the same time, I think the rest of the cast seems pretty tight, and I don't see that from her as much. If she's unhappy with what's happening on the show, I'm not sure she hides it very well, and that tension can leak onto the screen and messes with the chemistry with other actors. And with someone like SA, I think that negativity would bug him, and at least make their scenes together more challenging than the easy chemistry he has with DR, EBR, CL, WH, etc.

[Zalyn]

At the risk of appearing to be a SA apologist, I'll bring in a RL gender element that could be relevant (I teach gender studies and emphasize masculinity theory).

 

I'm seeing a lot of men becoming much more aware and conscientious about interactions with women nowadays, and I can easily imagine that someone like SA (who used to do really porny soap operas and other explicit sex scenes with men and women) would be very sensitive to the comfort of a costar in such physically intimate scenes.  If KC isn't comfortable with kissing scenes, then he's not only going to feel uncomfortable (on her behalf), but also would be reluctant to turn on the passion (since it would be really creepy and gross).  I'm not blaming KC, but I am identifying how her particular hangup could have a ripple effect to SA, who could have chemistry with a tree as long as it was consenting.

 

The amazing eye contact between SA and EBR really sells (or oversells) their connection, while the many times KC or SA are looking away (even while hugging - they each get the "I'm plotting something while pretending to like this person" look, probably inadvertently in the over-the-shoulder shot). 

 

Is it just me, or do there seem to be more shots with both EBR and SA in the picture (over the shoulder) than with KC and SA? I'm not sure if that means that KC and SA were doing more standard shooting of dialogue scenes, but there is more texture in the EBR/SA scenes, possibly due to height difference, but I feel there are some differences too.

 

ETA: Great minds, Carrie Ann!  *hi5*

Edited May 28, 2014 by Zalyn

[catrox14]

Re: SA's acting re Laurel.

 

I don't think Amell's personal feelings towards KC have much to do with anything we see on screen. They seem to get along well enough off screen for him to post pictures of them on set and out and about the town, on his Facebook page. He is under no obligation to post those since it is his personal page and not the official Arrow page.

 

Of course, IMO, there is always a little bleed through in some cases even with the most seasoned actors at certain moments.  It happens from time to time.   Some actors put much of their own personality into certain roles (John Barrowman with Captain Jack Harkness).  But IMO, what I have seen of  Amell, off screen, is pretty much the polar opposite of the brooding Oliver Queen.  He's kind of silly and goofy and funny and relaxed. If anything, I  think Amell's own personality bleeds through with Felicity and Diggle because they get some of the comic moments and IMO he is one seriously funny guy IRL.

 

Given all of the scenes that Oliver has shared with nearly every other main and major supporting character, and the different aspects we see of Oliver with those varying characters, I think Amell has demonstrated his range as an actor enough that I believe he is making intentional choices WRT to his scenes with Laurel.  If we think back to the early episodes when it first aired,  many reviews and some of the general commentariat complained about his "wooden"acting, but I think it's fair to say that those were most likely intentional choices to show Oliver PTSD etc. 

 

If you look at his scenes with Isobel whom he obviously hates by the end of s2, you can see when his demeanor and attitude changes once he learns her game and it's clear loathing.  His scenes when he sees Slade in the mansion the first time he's clearly trying to hide his hostility so Moira doesn't see that they know each other. It's not in your face "BIG" acting, it's subtle shifts of his eyes, and body language which gradually gives way to barely contained hostility.

 

IMO, SA is playing Oliver as  awkward, uncomfortable and being confused by Laurel  purposefully whilst at the same time trying to not be terribly cruel because he did love her at one time. Whether he still does that's debatable. I think SA is playing it like he just cannot figure what her deal is now. If he played it as happy and warm that would be ridiculous given how much has gone down between and around them. Oliver has plenty of reasons to be awkward and distant as we have seen over the course of two seasons.

 

• Laurel told him flat out when he came back that she hated him and wished he really was dead.  Even if she no longer means it, that's a pretty hard thing to hear and it probably sticks with him.
• He was  sleeping with her sister, with whom he shares an even bigger secret than them sleeping together.
• Laurel prosecuted his mother in court, regardless that she went free, Laurel was opposition. 
• He read her the riot act about her drinking and drug abuse so he's clearly got issues with her because of that and he made it clear he was done with chasing after her trying to help her.
• He's possibly developing serious feelings for Felicity beyond friends and superhero business partner
• It's only after figuring out he's the Arrow that Laurel now deems him worthy of her love, that she shows up and hugs him, not long after she and Oliver had that major falling out.  So yes I would expect him to react with the "Um...okay why are you here hugging me?" unsolicited.  I wouldn't expect him to embrace her with relief and joy given the givens (tm Dark Angel).

 

That all seemed in character for Oliver IMO. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by catrox14

[icandigit]

 

IMO, SA is playing Oliver as  awkward, uncomfortable and being confused by Laurel  purposefully whilst at the same time trying to not be terribly cruel because he did love her at one time.

That is what is so interesting about this.What he's playing is not out of line with the story we are seeing onscreen.  Oliver's a different and still evolving character, has been away from Laurel for 5 years and still isn't really hanging out with her now. Laurel and Oliver would work so much better for me if the show would play into their distance and not try to make it something else. It can make for good storytelling.

[ohjoy]

You demostrate a very good point, catrox14 -- especially about the "wooden" acting comments. (I never saw it as anything but PTSD/coping issues from the last five years, but I had friends who wrote the show off in the beginnning because they thought SA couldn't act. Boy were they wrong.) And the idea that these are SA's deliberate acting choices really makes sense to me, even as I still think that KC is not factoring any of that into her acting at all. That would explain the very apparent disconnect.

[bluebonnet]

I'll also show some hypocrisy because I definitely give SA a pass with the lack of chemistry with KC.  Their lack of chemistry in their first scenes together made me cringe and almost turn away from the show altogether.  It was truly terrible.  So awkward, and not awkward in the "we used to bone but then you boned my sister and sort of died and I kinda hate you" sort of way.  Just awkward, like two people trying really hard to act for the camera.  I don't want to see actors looking like they are trying so hard.  Ugh, just look at the way they are walking.  KC can't figure out how to move her arms, like they are being controlled by puppet strings.  And SA isn't even moving his arms.  These don't look like two people who used to know each other.

 

But, as catrox14 pointed out, that early wooden acting by SA seemed like more of a deliberate choice.  He was being thrust back in his old life and trying to find a place in it while also trying to hide who he had become during his time away.  Plus, SA has chemistry across the board with the rest of the cast. KC is a black hole of chemistry.  I've seen convincing arguments that she has chemistry with PB.  I don't buy it, but I'm willing to concede that my KC dislike is affecting my ability to give her credit when she deserves it.  I also know that SA can properly hug a person.  KC can't.  I often feel like I should take a shower after I watch her hug someone.  Or when she rubs people's heads.  There's nothing natural about her movements and I wonder if in real life, KC just doesn't like to touch.  Which, no problem, I'm not too fond of physical contact either, but I'm also not an actor.  So yeah, I give SA a pass. 

[catrox14]

I'm seeing a lot of men becoming much more aware and conscientious about interactions with women nowadays, and I can easily imagine that someone like SA (who used to do really porny soap operas and other explicit sex scenes with men and women

 

They had a intimate scene in s1 where they kissed more or less passionately and then he carries her into her bedroom with her legs wrapped around him. It was effective and sexual. It was the only time I ever bought they had legit intimacy.  Amell had the same girlfriend that became the mother of his child and his now wife when they filmed that scene, IIRC so I think KC is full of beans about that.  Maybe she's holding a grudge for when they fell off the bed during one of the takes. 

 

Jensen Ackles has spoken of being  protective of the actresses on SPN and making them feel safe and comfortable as possible during sex scenes. He requires a closed set for those scenes etc. Once the camera is rolling it's all pretty technical and it's not all hot and sexy like we see with the finished product. (mileage varies I know ). They have to make sure body parts don't show, elbows and shoulders aren't blocking faces, twist this way, now move that way. It's not porn here. LOL   I would imagine it's the same for Amell here. 

[Zalyn]

Jensen Ackles has spoken of being  protective of the actresses on SPN and making them feel safe and comfortable as possible during sex scenes. He requires a closed set for those scenes etc. Once the camera is rolling it's all pretty technical and it's not all hot and sexy like we see with the finished product. (mileage varies I know ). They have to make sure body parts don't show, elbows and shoulders aren't blocking faces, twist this way, now move that way. It's not porn here. LOL   I would imagine it's the same for Amell here. 

It's really awesome that he does that!  JA comes from doing romantic soap operas, which explains his ability to emote (and cry) at the drop of a shotgun shell, and probably his sensitivity on shooting those types of scenes too.  I find it interesting to see this trend of bringing in male actors into action / scifi roles from romantic genres - definitely seems to bring good skillsets that may not have been as present before.

[Sakura12]

I saw SA playing Oliver suffering from PTSD just like Caity Lotz played Sara. They were wooden and closed off because their characters went through horrible traumas and were trying to not feel anything. Feelings made you weak and made you remember everything that happened. I appreciated that both SA and CL did voice chances for pre-island Oliver and Sara and post-island Oliver and Sara and posture changes, pre-island they were lighter and more open and afterwards they were more contained and tight.  SA even mentioned a tick he does for Oliver when he's agitated. He opens and closes his fist like he's releasing an arrow. That's just something that they added to the character and make them feel more real.

 

Cassidy doesn't seem to put much thought into her character beside what she wants to happen. She thinks just being given the jacket makes her the Black Canary. 

[catrox14]

Not to get too OT about Ackles, but he says that he learned so much about the technical aspects of TV by doing soaps and having to learn an absurd amount of dialogue every day which is  far more than what the average TV show.  It's obvious he learned something from it, but I also think he's just one of those actors that just was born to be an actor and I mean a legit actor not just a pretty face talking.  Life ruining SOB . :)

[Danny Franks]

The idea that actors have trouble showing intimacy because they're in real relationships with other people is, in my view, pretty ludicrous. This is their job, it's what they're supposed to be good at, and it is an act. I mean, good grief, about ninety percent of the jobs that young, good looking actors get will require them to kiss someone they're not involved with. If they get a job on an HBO show, they'll be asked to do more than that. I don't buy it as an excuse. And I've seen Katie Cassidy happily stick her tongue in Tracy Spiridakos's mouth in some schlocky straight-to-DVD movie, so I know that's not a part of the job she has issues with. I don't know about SA, because I've only seen him in New Girl prior to Arrow, and his character was just tripping balls on LSD when he appeared on that show.

 

If she and SA just don't get on, then they just don't get on. If they do get on, yet find it impossible to generate any heat, then that's just the way it is. Some actors just don't spark, for whatever reason. Whatever the reason is, it's clear that they can't bring the heat. Hell, they can barely bring human connection at all to their scenes together, and I wish the writers wouldn't try it again.

[calliope1975]

This is their job, it's what they're supposed to be good at, and it is an act.

 

 

Exactly. If you can't separate the person you're acting against from their fictional character, find a new job. There are plenty of excellent actors who are able to separate the two, and I'd rather watch them on my screen then someone who is unable to suspend their own disbelief.

 

Chemistry is subjective, and I know there are viewers who think SA and KC have it. I am not one of those viewers, and watching them trying to force a romantic pairing is painful and FF material for me. 

 

I've said this in the past, but if TPTB really want to go with Laurel and Oliver, SA and KC are going to have to put in some time and effort to make any kind of connection believable because as it is, SA looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than in a room with KC, and I'm not sure if that's an Oliver choice or SA's. 

[Zalyn]

I see them this way as well. However, if the EPs are determined to insinuate Laurel into Team Arrow, I can see them trying to make Laurel "the Conscience" and/or "the Heart" since she really has no useful skills to contribute.  I would hate that.

*commence Captain Planet jokes*

[wonderwall]

#12 is pretty much all the reason I need to ship Oliver and Felicity. Now I just need a compilation video of every time Oliver says her name. :-)

Here's basically a compilation of Oliver saying Felicity's name :p 

 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Lisin
fixed embed

[Zalyn]

Dang, I got to #34 reason and now I need to do a rewatch. 

 

I love the internet - it's my favorite research monkey ! 

 

I used to coach speech and debate, so I'm really sensitive to voices - tone, timbre, resonance. I mentioned before that SA really uses a wide range, especially when talking to Felicity (almost too wide sometimes).  That "Felicity's name" vid is as engrossing to me as a ball of string for a cat.

 

ETA: #69 - SO TRUE.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Zalyn

[BkWurm1]

Oliver: The Leader, Arrow Expert.

Felicity: The Conscience and the Heart, IT Expert

Diggle: The Loyal and Wise, Strategic Expert

 

Laurel:  The Eyes in the System, Purveyor of Justice, Legal Expert

 

It could be argued that Quentin does this to an extent but he's strictly on the front line and would be more of the eye on the streets than someone who could bring cases that the legal system can't help or even bigger cover ups or conspiracies.  Plus she could feel out judges or other lawyers for information.  It gives Laurel a position on the Team but keeps her out of the Lair.

[Morrigan2575]

I see them this way as well. However, if the EPs are determined to insinuate Laurel into Team Arrow, I can see them trying to make Laurel "the Conscience" and/or "the Heart" since she really has no useful skills to contribute. I would hate that.

Aren't both of those already filled by current Team Members?

Felicity serves as both heart and conscience

Diggle serves as both conscience and wise mentor/sage.

Roy pretty much serves as the upstart/sidekick/trainee, through his experiences will get to learn more about Oliver as trainee (reflection), Oliver as mentor, and Diggle as Sage

Sara served as equal/partner reflection of Oliver.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Laurel a legal expert? I can hardly believe that though because she's a terrible lawyer (from what we've seen).

 

Keep Laurel out of the foundry. Let her find her own path. If Laurel is meant to be strong, she doesn't need Oliver's team to prop her up. She needs to learn how to do things on her own without taking the easy way out (ahem, blackmail) and find her own team and then leave the show when she becomes Manhunter (FINGERS CROSSED). 

 

Again, Laurel is too big of a character to be properly portrayed in this show. She will be overlooked for the more loved characters, and that's hardly fair to her development. How can Laurel become a believable BC when she's not the main focus of the show? She can't. And if she does become the main focus of the show, that's when I bow out. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by wonderwall

[writersblock51]

 

I see them this way as well. However, if the EPs are determined to insinuate Laurel into Team Arrow, I can see them trying to make Laurel "the Conscience" and/or "the Heart" since she really has no useful skills to contribute.  I would hate that.

I won't be watching that, it's enough to turn me off.

 

 

How can Laurel become a believable BC when she's not the main focus of the show? She can't. And if she does become the main focus of the show, that's when I bow out.

Exactly.

 

If KC needs to stay on the show, I truly think the best fit would be for her to become Manhunter.  She can be inspired by Oliver and Sara to find her own role to help the city, while keeping her day job (ignoring that she only kept it because of blackmail *eye roll*)

[writersblock51]

The video of Oliver saying Felicity's name was funny... Now I suspect the show has him say it whenever they can. hahahaha

 

Actors who struggle with their off screen feelings showing up on screen - there are plenty of examples of professionals who have been able to deal with it.  if KC can't, then she needs to consider getting out of the acting business.  She's admitted to it being a problem.  SA hasn't - and I suspect his take on Oliver in the more awkward scenes with Laurel are deliberate.  I think he's a far more versatile actor than most people were giving him credit for in the first half of S1.

[wonderwall]

I found this on tumblr and it's HILARIOUS. I would not oppose to see this play out on screen :p

Can you imagine how hard it’s going to be for him to convince her later that he really does love her…?

His hands are on her shoulders (because duh). “I love you.”

She blinks at him. “Yes, I love you too. And Digg. Did I mention Digg? Big love for Digg.”

He sighs. “No, Felicity, I really love you.”

She leans over and whispers, “Is this room bugged? Is this a plan I wasn’t part of?”

He shakes his head, frustrated. “No, I really mean it this time. Actually, I meant it the first time. But—”

"Okay, Oliver…" She looks around suspiciously. "I "believe" you." She makes finger quotes and everything.

It’s going to be a long process. - X

Edited May 29, 2014 by wonderwall

[calliope1975]

That "Felicity" compilation is hilarious. I'm pretty sure that 1/3 to 1/2 of those times he didn't need to mention her by name. Makes me wonder if it's a script thing, a SA thing, or a mix of both. Either way, I enjoy it, so keep it up Show.

[BkWurm1]

His hands are on her shoulders (because duh). “I love you.”

She blinks at him. “Yes, I love you too. And Digg. Did I mention Digg? Big love for Digg.”

He sighs. “No, Felicity, I really love you.”

She leans over and whispers, “Is this room bugged? Is this a plan I wasn’t part of?”

He shakes his head, frustrated. “No, I really mean it this time. Actually, I meant it the first time. But—”

"Okay, Oliver…" She looks around suspiciously. "I "believe" you." She makes finger quotes and everything.

It’s going to be a long process. -

 

 

Someone needs  write a crack fic where we find Felicity married and pregnant and asking Oliver to explain what the plan was again. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

BkWurm, thank you for going through the Laurel/Oliver videos.  I salute you.

 

I'm struck by how little chemistry SA/KC have compared to SA/EBR.  All you have to do is turn off the sound and it's glaring.

 

I was watching clips from the upfronts, and of course SA and EBR get asked first about that scene.  In an IGN clip, SA talked about how what they shot was different than what came out in the edit, and how it made the scene much tighter and better. In a separate interview, EBR talked about how it was the last scene they shot at the studio and things were being cleaned out which made the sound much more cavernous and impressive.  I've never heard KC talk about what makes up her scenes that way.  If SA and EBR see making the show in much the same way, it's something that gets created and you do the best job you can,  I can understand why they would be more comfortable with each other.

 

I wonder if working on soap operas for a few years would help Katie Cassidy.

 

 

it's interesting to note that Diggle is there about half the time in the Felicity/Oliver vid

I love Diggle, he's so open with his feelings about Oliver's women and the only ones he approves of are Felicity and Sara.  Maybe McKenna but he never really got to know her.  With Felicity, no sooner does she join the Team, with Diggle's full approval as they worked trying to save Oliver together, than she quits because she doesn't like the killing (Dodger).  As Oliver tries to intimidate her with his size, Diggle is in the background grinning because he likes to see Oliver being stood up to.

[ohjoy]

That "Felicity" compilation is hilarious. I'm pretty sure that 1/3 to 1/2 of those times he didn't need to mention her by name. Makes me wonder if it's a script thing, a SA thing, or a mix of both. Either way, I enjoy it, so keep it up Show.

It sorta reminds me of the earlier seasons of Supernatural, when Sam would say Dean's name all the time to the point I wondered if it was an in-joke or a drinking game among the writers. No one says their sibling's name that much in normal conversation. Maybe I noticed it more because there aren't any variants or nicknames you can use for "Dean". At least Sam had "Sammy" sometimes.

Which reminds me (OT), there's one time (I think the scene is when Felicity is afraid to tell Oliver about his mother) when Oliver says Felicity's name like it's four different words: "Fe. Li. Ci. Ty." normally I'm just amused when he says her name, but I remember that one sounded so weird that I think I had to rewind and watch her response again because I was distracted wondering why he would say it like that. (So apparently I get distracted literally by name-calling. it's a thing with me.)

[BkWurm1]

It sorta reminds me of the earlier seasons of Supernatural, when Sam would say Dean's name all the time to the point I wondered if it was an in-joke or a drinking game among the writers. No one says their sibling's name that much in normal conversation. Maybe I noticed it more because there aren't any variants or nicknames you can use for "Dean".

 

I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that on Gilmore Girls Jared Padalecki was called Dean.  I tried watching the early episodes (apparently I don't do horror film tv) and was constantly confused that Dean was now Sam while a character I'd known on Smallville as Jason was now Dean.  

 

there's one time (I think the scene is when Felicity is afraid to tell Oliver about his mother) when Oliver says Felicity's name like it's four different words: "Fe. Li. Ci. Ty." normally I'm just amused when he says her name, but I remember that one sounded so weird that I think I had to rewind and watch her response again because I was distracted wondering why he would say it like that.

 

That's a great scene.  SA just seems like he has fun saying her name and it comes out with such different meanings. 

[millennium]

Again, Laurel is too big of a character to be properly portrayed in this show. She will be overlooked for the more loved characters, and that's hardly fair to her development. How can Laurel become a believable BC when she's not the main focus of the show? She can't. And if she does become the main focus of the show, that's when I bow out. 

 

I don't think the writers would be so rash as to divert the focus of the show.    I hope Laurel can bring something positive to Team Arrow and eventually fit in naturally.    It should be interesting to see how Team Laurrow develops. 

Edited May 29, 2014 by millennium

[Morrigan2575]

Which reminds me (OT), there's one time (I think the scene is when Felicity is afraid to tell Oliver about his mother) when Oliver says Felicity's name like it's four different words: "Fe. Li. Ci. Ty." normally I'm just amused when he says her name, but I remember that one sounded so weird that I think I had to rewind and watch her response again because I was distracted wondering why he would say it like that. (So apparently I get distracted literally by name-calling. it's a thing with me.)

 

It's in the video, it's from 2.13 when they're at his mother's campaign, he say's Felicity as she's walking away and then goes "Fe.Li.Ci.Ty" as he's catching up to her, it's actually quite amusing.  

[dtissagirl]

I have a really hard time trying to come up with something new and unique Laurel could bring to Team Arrow, something that the other characters can't. I could see the Eye in the System thing if Det. Lance didn't do that already... which in turn makes me scared for Quentin when I think about it. I wonder if they're gonna give Laurel his narrative connection to Team Arrow.

[Danny Franks]

I like that moment, because the way he says her name just seems packed with exasperated fondness. That he's annoyed by her hiding things from him, but not actually angry with her, and gets her attention in a gently cajoling way. It's a line reading that could have gone so many different ways, but SA chose one that really made it stand out. 

 

He'd already picked up that something was bothering her, in another scene I really like, with another great line delivery, this time by EBR: "What!? Sorry... what!?" So it made sense to me that he'd be more forceful in finding out the truth later on. Because we know Oliver only likes secrets when they're his.

 

While we're on the subject, I have to say that I think 'felicity' is a fun word to say anyway. It rolls off the tongue nicely, has a nice rhythm to it. And because it has an unusually large amount of syllables for a given name, it always seems to be something that Oliver/Stephen relishes saying in full (given the amount of times he does say it),

[writersblock51]

I think Laurel's best chances of having an organic role (and I'm being VERY generous when I say this) is if Quentin dies or can no longer work at the PD.  And I'd much rather he stay alive and working than have Laurel step foot in the lair or wherever Team Arrow will be congregating in the future.

 

Laurel's shown little interest in being helpful to the city beyond her legal skills.  And that's fine with me.  Actually, that's not true because I've never been impressed with her lawyer-ing skills.

 

Felicity and Diggle have clearly defined roles on the Team.  Roy does, too, to some extent, especially now that Sara may not be around.  And who knows how active Diggle will be once the baby is born.

 

Quentin is the PD connection.  I truly don't see Laurel fitting in.  Even if Quentin dies, her PD connection is limited to the DA's office.  No doubt Team Arrow scans police frequencies for some stuff but they'd need a new 'in' person.  Maybe Laurel would switch careers and become a police officer to honor her father?  That would make more sense and would take time for her to physically prepare for fighting sequences.

 

Again, I'm merely speculating as to how Laurel could possibly fit in.  I have no interest in seeing her on the show in any capacity so my preference is that she get written off asap.

[dtissagirl]

The only thing that makes me remotely interested in Laurel interacting with Team Arrow is the huge amounts of shade Diggle is gonna throw right in her face. *g*

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Because we know Oliver only likes secrets when they're his.

 

Ha!  This could actually be the tagline for the whole series.  Arrow: He only likes secrets when they're his own...

[Password]

The only thing that makes me remotely interested in Laurel interacting with Team Arrow is the huge amounts of shade Diggle is gonna throw right in her face. *g*

 

I definitely hope they don't brush over tension between Diggle and Laurel. I cannot wait to see his reaction to her wanting to be all up in their business.

[Tangerine]

Finally made my way over from TWoP, hello everyone!

 

 

Actors who struggle with their off screen feelings showing up on screen - there are plenty of examples of professionals who have been able to deal with it. 

 

This, totally. I don't know if there was any truth to it, but I remember there were rumours that Scott Patterson and Lauren Graham on Gilmore Girls (Luke & Lorelai) didn't really get along but you would never be able to tell given how much they sparkled on screen. Because they were professionals and it was their job. 

 

Actually the L&L relationship is a good comparison as to why I think I like Olicity so much. Up until the time they broke up (the first and second time in that terrible storyline that will not be mentioned), L&L was relatively angst free. They had other love interests, and they were maybe suggestions and hints of jealousy but it never took over a storyline and was never the focal point. I just can't get behind Laurel and Oliver because asides from the lack of chemistry I'm seeing, it just feels exhausting. It's been telegraphed early on that it's not an emotionally healthy relationship and nothing about them together is enjoyable. You never see lighter moments of Oliver and Laurel together even just cracking a joke and making one another laugh because they're just bogged down by so much drama and angst and for me as a viewer, it's just not an enjoyable experience at all. 

[bluebonnet]

My worry about Laurel being added to Team Arrow is that they will be forced to redefine her (again) in order to make it work.  The EP's apparently want us to like her, which isn't going to happen with the material they've provided us thus far.  She would need to be a completely new character for me to consider liking her and that would make me lose all faith in the writers because it shows they aren't willing to modify their original plans when the intent they had with a character didn't work out.  I'm fine with Laurel being a crappy person.  I can like crappy, shady characters.  I liked Merlyn and Moira and definitely Slade.  Laurel doesn't need to be 'the good-doer heart' of the show for me to like her.  The more they try to make it appear that the intent with Laurel is to be a genuinely good, warm and decent person, the more I loathe her because I just don't find it believable.  There's enough material there for Laurel to be a snarky, cold jerk who just wants the fame of putting bad guys in prison and I'd believe that.  I'd definitely start having reasons to like her character because it would come off as more true.  She can then be rude all she wants to Team Arrow without me getting pissed off that this allegedly good and warm person is being rude to fan favorites.  They could work it in really well with Laurel recovering from her dumb goofy grin in the jacket scene to having a good think about what she actually heard with Slade and Felicity and realize that Oliver isn't going to be her meal ticket whether in love or money and just closes herself off emotionally and takes charge of her own destiny. 

[millennium]

 

Laurel's shown little interest in being helpful to the city beyond her legal skills.

She's also had little opportunity to do more.   Oliver and Sara were transformed elsewhere and came back to the city as different people.  They little choice but to become what they are.   But Felicity was brought over by Oliver; had that not happened, Felicity would probably still be just an I.T. girl.   Diggle was also recruited by Oliver.   As was Roy.    More than half of Team Oliver may never have become "helpful to the city" -- or even considered the possibility -- had they not crossed paths with Oliver.

 

I don't think it's entirely fair to criticize Laurel for just trying to get by in the wake of losing a fiance and having a whole city come down around her, especially when others who are regarded as heroes -- Felicity, Diggle and Roy -- would probably be doing the same thing of they hadn't been in the right place at the right time.

 

Maybe all Laurel needs is a push in the right direction, from the right people.

[Password]

I don't think it's entirely fair to criticize Laurel for just trying to get by in the wake of losing a fiance and having a whole city come down around her, especially when others who are regarded as heroes -- Felicity, Diggle and Roy -- would probably be doing the same thing of they hadn't been in the right place at the right time.

 

A fiance?

[millennium]

My bad.   Even so, losing someone you're that close to is usually devastating, engaged or not.

[Password]

Oh. Sorry I didn't watch episode 11, 12 and 13 so I thought maybe she said something to Sara.

[icandigit]

Sometimes i wonder if there's some other cool show I'm missing out on.  Where Felicity and Diggle hang out together and talk about their lives. Every time the show hints at them spending time together makes me jealous I don't get to see it onscreen.