Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[blixie]

 

They are not even friends yet and we are coming up to episode five which I doubt will see much R/F interaction tbh.

I think BR and EBR definitely had scenes in this one, and I could see her smart Hacker ex being compared to Ray, they're still leaning on him being untrustworthy and ominous hilariously enough because he's being SECRETIVE, pot kettle Team Arrow, but I think he'll turn out to be, like them all about the GOOD. But his lack of episodes in the front have of S3 do indicate the balance of his 16 episode stint are going to be in the back half, thus a deepening of any potential relationship with Felicity could happen then.I just can't see them playing these Romance strings in the middle of Ray Secret is really...stuff, Ra's War/Sara Murder Mystery stuff. If there is already too much stuff happening w/o the character beats to serve the *relationships* right now, I shudder to think how the shows relationships will look like while their facing down Ra's.

[chaos is welcome]

There is also the Boss factor. I just don't see Felicity being comfortable with that.

especially when all of QC already thinks she was banging Oliver. You know she knows about that.

[ostentatious]

It's interesting to me that they had Felicity realize in The Flash that Barry was perfect for her but it wasn't enough. What makes Ray any different? He's clearly written as perfect for her on paper so I want to know exactly what changes to make things romantic. Until then I don't see it happening. Fingers crossed. I hate love triangles so much, especially on this show. They SUCK.

The difference is that Ray isn't in love with anyone else. Also he is a character on Arrow, not the lead in another show, so that helps.

 

I think that he's more Felicity's physical type than Barry is. He's really a blend of Barry and Oliver, which is why he's more of a threat than Barry.

 

I don't think that it's a love triangle though. I don't count things as love triangles unless there's a back and forth. I really don't foresee that here. If it is either ALL from Ray's end, or if Felicity is involved first with Ray, then with Oliver, and that's a line, not a triangle.

[Password]

If it is either ALL from Ray's end, or if Felicity is involved first with Ray, then with Oliver, and that's a line, not a triangle.

 

That's what I thought about season 1 but apparently that was a triangle. I also don't see it as a triangle because right now, Olicity aren't exactly communicating with each other. There's no back and forth, just plain forth (on Felicity's side).

 

I agree, Ray Ray is a mix of Oliver and Barrles, but without an over amount of man pain...oh and PTSD. He's like Oliver lite, with Barry's nerdy adorablesness. Although no one is as adorable as Barry. I wouldn't have been mad if Barricity happened at all. Uncomplicated, perfectly perfect for one another. Ray is a different kettle of fish.

 

I feel like I have to fan wank that Felicity doesn't much care about her reputation at QC because once she starts dating Ray, it's shot to nothing because she doesn't work with most of the company. Those around her will respect her awesome talent and brains, but to most of QC she's the IT girl that became the CEO's EA, then when he left, the new CEO's EA. She must be a fabulous EA.

[statsgirl]

When Ray was introduced I figured that he would be used for two romantic beats: if I can't be with you can I be with anyone else and perfect on 

For the love of all that is good and holy, do not repeat Tommy/Laurel/Oliver. It was so tacky.

It really hurt both Oliver and Laurel because it made them out to be completely self-centered.  They didn't care who they hurt as long as they got what they wanted.

Poor Tommy.

 

It. Was. Horrifying! I hated that Oliver did that to his best friend and that it just came out of nowhere. It's like they forgot there was a triangle and then decided to throw 3 relationships under the bus in the 3 episodes.

 

If Felicity does have sex, I think it'd be with Ray Ray. 

Felicity will have had sex with her old boyfriend so hopefully that will be enough to cover that beat.  Maybe I'm old-fashioned (or just old) but having sex ups the emotional connection hugely.  It makes them a part of your past and I'd rather Felicity not have that connection to Ray, especially if he stays in the Arrow-verse.

 

 What makes Ray any different? He's clearly written as perfect for her on paper so I want to know exactly what changes to make things romantic. Until then I don't see it happening. Fingers crossed. I hate love triangles so much, especially on this show. They SUCK.

Ray 1. appreciates her brains in more than a cursory way and gives her a job appropriate with what she can do and 2. is emotionally supportive of her when she's going through stuff.    He's also a man whereas I think of Barry as a boy.  Felicity seems to grow 5 years younger when she's with him.

 

I don't think it would hurt her at QC if she were to date Ray because she's already at the boardroom level now.  She wasn't with Oliver.

 

I hate romantic triangles too. I'm really really hoping that when Oliver realizes he might lose Felicity, she's not already in a relationship with Ray.  Seeing him as a possible alternative, but not in a real relationship with him. I went through that on Castle and Bones and it does a show no credit.

[ostentatious]

It was a triangle in season one because Laurel was drawn to both of them. There was back and forth. She and Tommy had a thing of sorts at the top, he wanted more and she didn't, then she kissed Oliver, then she was with Tommy, then she was with Oliver, and her feelings were actually conflicted.

 

If Felicity has a thing with Ray and then settles on Oliver then to me that's a line.

 

I also think the motivation for starting/ending the relationships is important. If they start and stop just because of feeeeeelings then it's more tired. But I think if Felicity is with Ray, it's then that she finds out whatever shady business he's up to involving her. That sort of thing causing her to push him away is not trite, it's earned.

 

I don't think Felicity is concerned about her "reputation" around QC at all. I really don't think the show is going back to that. It is a fan level concern that I too shared, but I don't think the prods have any thoughts about addressing it, so I don't think it influences Felicity's choices.

Edited October 30, 2014 by ostentatious

[Carrie Ann]

The biggest reason this is not a triangle to me is that I'm almost 100% positive that Ray won't be on this show past this season, aside from guest appearances. To me, it's only a triangle if there is a real chance for either relationship, and there isn't with Ray. He's here to be the spoiler, or at least the threat to Olicity, and that's it. In Season 1, we all assumed Tommy was a long-term cast member, so the O/L/T triangle had real weight. And also, I find triangles more dramatically effective when all three parties have a relationship with each other, so the third side of the triangle--the line that connects the two "competing" love interests--actually matters as well. Oliver and Tommy's relationship was more important than either of their relationships with Laurel were, from this viewer's perspective. Ray and Oliver basically don't know each other, and...any of my other thoughts about them probably belong in the spoiler spec or hopes/fears thread.

[blixie]

 

Those around her will respect her awesome talent and brains, but to most of QC she's the IT girl that became the CEO's EA, then when he left, the new CEO's EA. She must be a fabulous EA.

 

But she's NOT Ray's EA. I get the being involved with Boss twice is something Felicity should be concerned about optically, but I give less than ZERO weight to what Isabel said to Felicity about what "the whole company" thought, sooo eh.

[dtissagirl]

Not that I think the writers bother to remember previous stuff anymore, but -- remember that convo Felicity had with Oliver, that if she had a boyfriend, how could she tell him about what happened that day? [And then Oliver told her she could talk to him and awwww, but that's beside the point here, sorry.] I'm having difficulty imagining Felicity in a relationship with Ray like the one Oliver [hilariously] tried with McKenna, you know? Ray being emotionally available, and Felicity unable to explain stuff that was affecting her because SECRETS!

 

Worse, I can totally see these writers going for comic relief in Felicity having to get away from dates [see this week's Flash ep], and coming up with ridiculous excuses and such. And then it escapes me what would Felicity get from a relationship like that, other than the narrative having to go there because Oliver needs to see her with somebody else to get his head out of his ass.

 

So I guess for me, if Felicity/Ray is to happen, then he's gotta be in on the secret. Then it IS real, and then he IS a real threat to Oliver.

[Password]

Right now we don't know what she is to him. I just call her his EA because she's seemingly only working with him. Hopefully we'll see more of what she does in up coming episodes.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Limbo

[Password]

So I guess for me, if Felicity/Ray is to happen, then he's gotta be in on the secret. Then it IS real, and then he IS a real threat to Oliver.

 

I agree with this statement. Though I do take into account what EBR said in that interview about saying Ray is the type of person to say "What are you dealing with? Do you need help?" so I assume he's giving her emotional support that Oliver isn't quite ready to give right now. Hmm reading that interview, and specifically that paragraph again, it seems more like Ray will just be a good friend to Felicity, something she desperately needs right now. Friendship is an excellent basis for any relationship but reading that, I actually didn't see much further than Oliver seeing their dynamic and what Ray gives her, and thinking "boy I need to pull my head out of my butt".

[statsgirl]

I'm pretty sure Ray is going to be in on the secret by early winter.  They were careful to show multiple shots of his interested face when Oliver and Roy were fighting Komodo.  Also, there was weapons stuff on that drive Felicity recovered, he's going to go looking how that got there.

 

Right now we don't know what she is to him. I just call her his EA because she's seemingly only working with him. Hopefully we'll see more of what she does in up coming episodes.

But she's not doing EA stuff (scheduling appointments, admin work) and she's got her own EA.  I guess we'll see what he has her doing longterm now that she's retried the information he wanted but it looks like she'll still be in tech.

[El Seed]

Bottom line, from Felicity's view point when push came to shove, Oliver chose loneliness, darkness and danger over her. That's quite the stumbling block on the road to blissful togetherness. I mean, intellectually I'm sure she understands, but emotionally it's a fair old kick in the chucks.

 

 

The conversation in episode 2 when Oliver described life as a march towards death, he was pretty much telling Felicity that he was choosing death over building a life with her. If a guy that I had feelings for and was about to start a relationship with said that to me I don't know if I'd be able to get out of bed for a week.

 

Also, there was weapons stuff on that drive Felicity recovered, he's going to go looking how that got there.

 

 

Weapons that looked like stuff ARGUS uses, so I'm curious to know if Oliver knew QC was/is manufacturing ARGUS' weapons.

[lizonthefritz]

[Ray]'s here to be the spoiler, or at least the threat to Olicity, and that's it.

 

I don't know if it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I also think Ray's there so that the audience will gain a better understanding of Felicity's point of view by making her a character that isn't solely defined by her relationship with Oliver Queen.

 

So far, Felicity hasn't really been explored at all as a character apart from in relation to the Arrow team and Oliver. In order to make her more fully fleshed-out, someone who can hold her own in a relationship with Oliver Queen, they need to move her away from Oliver because as long as she stays in his sphere, it's always going to be all. about. him.

[statsgirl]

Hopefully Ray is also there to show Oliver that yes, you can have a 

superhero

life and a good business life and still have the relationship you want in it.

 

While I don't like the distance between Oliver and Felicity these days (both emotional and physical) at least with working for Ray and being on the Flash we get to see more of who she really is.

[BunsenBurner]

In order to make Felicity more fully fleshed-out, someone who can hold her own in a relationship with Oliver Queen, they need to move her away from Oliver because as long as she stays in his sphere, it's always going to be all. about. him.

That may be true except that when Laurel is on it's always about her. I actually think TPTB wanted to do a Black Canary show and couldn't get the backing so did Arrow instead. It's too bad. Felicity is a great character but she is getting the short end of the stick every time. I also think Oliver is as well (they are writing him more stupid).This show is essentially about Laurel Lance and everyone else be damed. Edited October 31, 2014 by BunsenBurner

[lizonthefritz]

I have never seen it as Felicity pining for Oliver. At first she thought he was super hot and never really hid it from him -- more like blatant objectification of a hunky dude, that started out awkward because of her lack of brain-to-mouth filter, but then developed into teasing after they became friends [she kept Sally because she likes watching him doing that and told him to his face, even]. Finding someone hot =/= pining. I don't even think she was crushing -- and I mean really crushing rather than just having sexual fantasies -- on him until mid-S2.

 

I agree, and I also think that Felicity wouldn't - and still won't, despite the date - let herself imagine that there's a possibility of a relationship with Oliver. She knows she's very much NOT his usual type and if she falls for him, there's not going to be an easy way for her to recover from that if it doesn't work out.

 

Plus, I think she's afraid of being the one who loves more, because let's face it, Oliver has pretty much always been a shallow jerk in his relationships. Which is probably why I like Oliver/Felicity so much - I don't think he'd be that way with her.

 

That may be true except that when Laurel is on it's always about her. I actually think TPTB wanted to do a Black Canary show and couldn't get the backing so did Arrow instead. It's too bad. Felicity is a great character but she is getting the short end of the stick every time. I also think Oliver is as well (they are writing him more stupid).This show is essentially about Laurel Lance and everyone else be damed.

 

In a way, it being all about Laurel in her scenes is kind of my point. In order to make it All. About. Felicity., they need to establish her as an actual person, who has wants and desires that aren't necessarily voiced in the Arrow cave. I think them bringing on a character essentially to further Felicity's arc is a very positive sign that they are establishing her as the romantic lead of this show. Not just a bit player who in the future may also become Oliver's girlfriend (but mostly off-screen, because their relationship isn't the point of the story), but someone who is taking center stage, pretty much equal in importance to Laurel. (Though I wouldn't mind if she replaced Laurel entirely.)

 

As for Laurel taking over the show, I don't know if I agree with your supposition that the creators wanted a Black Canary show. I think the reason why it feels like it's become The Laurel Show is that the writers are trying to fix everything they've done wrong with the character, but they're doing it ALL WRONG, so we get horrible story lines about her that seem unending because they're so frustrating.

[hogwash]

The conversation in episode 2 when Oliver described life as a march towards death, he was pretty much telling Felicity that he was choosing death over building a life with her. If a guy that I had feelings for and was about to start a relationship with said that to me I don't know if I'd be able to get out of bed for a week.

 

EXACTLY!! I had some issues with Felicity's decision at the end of episode 2 until I went back and looked at it with that conversation in mind. I can't fault her for it because Oliver is an idiot. Honestly, what a freaking dumb thing to tell a woman who is in love you. "Hey, you know that acquaintance of ours who was lying dead on our exam table with 3 arrows in her chest? That's probably gonna be me. Did I say probably? I meant that's definitely gonna be me." FACEPALM. She did NOT need to hear that. I mean, he's been waiting to die since Lian Yu. She's very aware of that considering how many times she and Diggle have had to talk him down (and how many times he's ignored them). It's even been obvious to characters who have no clue he's the Arrow. But to remind her of his "death is inevitable" schtick while the body of his female copy (relatively speaking) is in the Foundry's freezer is just FACEPALM! I felt so sorry for her. I still feel sorry for her.

[Danny Franks]

I agree, and I also think that Felicity wouldn't - and still won't, despite the date - let herself imagine that there's a possibility of a relationship with Oliver. She knows she's very much NOT his usual type and if she falls for him, there's not going to be an easy way for her to recover from that if it doesn't work out.

 

Plus, I think she's afraid of being the one who loves more, because let's face it, Oliver has pretty much always been a shallow jerk in his relationships. Which is probably why I like Oliver/Felicity so much - I don't think he'd be that way with her.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with your points at all, because I think they're probably accurate. But man, when you boil it down like that, it's the exact same story as Castle.

 

I rag on TV writers pulling the same tropes and narratives out of the bag, and acting like they're being super original and clever, but sometimes, you just have to sit back and shake your head at the lack of new ideas, and new ways to tell a story.

 

All they need now is for Felicity to date 50 Shades for a year, with him only appearing three or four times, as little more than a piece of set decoration, while Oliver looks miserable one week, then appears not to care the next, and for the writers to keep hammering home the tired old, 'they're so right for each other, but they just can't see it!' dribble.

[Genki]

 

Two things:

1st: Holy Smoaking!! present day Felicity is hot, but if i had to chose? yea, goth days Felicity will not get kicked out of my bed, if fact i'm willing to resort to handcuffs to keep her there. and she can bring present day Oliver with her.

2nd: she looks like a mix between Eliza Dushku and Evanescence Amy Lee

 

ETA: seriously this hair color suits Emily so much! she look so much better as a dark haired than blonde.

 

 

Seriously, want to see Oliver's reaction to Rebellious Felicity. She would be pushing so many of his buttons.

[wonderwall]

So this is the most amazing response about Olicity turning Arrow into a Soap Opera:

Jane: If you’re talking about the show that have already has “I cheated on you with your sister” arc, “Hey Thea I’m your father” arc, “My best friend and I are in love with the same women” arc, “Revenge for the woman who never loved me” arc, “My dad and I slept with the same woman” arc, and the “Baby daddy but I don’t know it yet” arc, It’s already a soap opera. The drama between Olicity is actually a lot more grown up and less soap opera than Oliver’s other relationships on the show. 

If you can deal with Oliver sleeping with his father mistress, I think you can deal with watching 2 friends fall in love. -- X

 

I edited it a bit, but DAMN this made me want to high five this person so bad :p 

Edited November 4, 2014 by wonderwall

[NumberCruncher]

Well that response is not wrong. The show was a soap opera before Felicity even showed up on our TV screens. As if comics aren't essentially soap operas in cartoon form. *eyeroll*

[fantique]

I've been having a problem with people calling Felicity's feeling for Oliver a crush (and I hope I didn't use it) or defining her behaviour as pining because

1) She's a grown woman and it just seems silly to have a crush after middle school/highschoo. Also, a crush to me means shallow feelings of physical attraction that are more based on fantasies then the person's actual attribute and personality.

2) Pining also doesn't fit for me because pining goes with self-pity and wallowing in my mind. 

 

I also think she just never seriously considered that he would be into her so it wasn't like she was hanging on to his every word waiting for a sign. Her feelings grew because she admired and believed in him and didn't let his worse qualities deter her from appreciating him as a person. I love that kind of patient and understanding love. I know tortured and misguided characters make for good TV but it only works for me when there are well adjusted characters to offset them.

 

I do appreciate the fact that I understand both their positions in making the decisions they made. It's frustrating because I am watching characters I like suffering especially when something can be done but I do believe that it will be beneficial and good growth by the end of the season. It already feels like Oliver is faster at realising what he wants so there's hope.

Edited November 5, 2014 by fantique

[ostentatious]

I've been having a problem with people calling Felicity's feeling for Oliver a crush (and I hope I didn't use it) or defining her behaviour as pining because

1) She's a grown woman and it just seems silly to have a crush after middle school/highschoo. Also, a crush to me means shallow feelings of physical attraction that are more based on fantasies then the person's actual attribute and personality.

2) Pining also doesn't fit for me because pining goes with self-pity and wallowing in my mind. 

 

I also think she just never seriously considered that he would be into her so it wasn't like she was hanging on to his every word waiting for a sign. Her feelings grew because she admired and believed in him and didn't let his worse qualities deter her from appreciating him as a person. I love that kind of patient and understanding love. I know tortured and misguided characters make for good TV but it only works for me when there are well adjusted characters to offset them.

 

I do appreciate the fact that I understand both their positions in making the decisions they made. It's frustrating because I am watching characters I like suffering especially when something can be done but I do believe that it will be beneficial and good growth by the end of the season. It already feels like Oliver is faster at realising what he wants so there's hope.

She kept her cool through an AWFUL lot of inappropriate shoulder touching and lack of respect for personal space on his part. An awful lot of intimate gestures. She prevented herself from reading anything into it.

 

It took him *actually unnecessarily saying I love you* to her for her to think, wait a minute...?

 

So yeah, she was not pining, because she hadn't let the idea coalesce into a realizable thought.

[KirkB]

From the dictionary, a crush is

 

    an intense but usually short-lived infatuation.
    the object of such an infatuation:

 

It's not really confined by age. However, your point is still valid, if only because Felicity's feelings, while intense, are probably not short lived.

Edited November 5, 2014 by KirkB

[Morrigan2575]

My only objection is that when it's used it's done in a way/tone to imply Felicity has some sort of unrequited crush on Oliver.  It's like they're trying to make it all about the poor geeky little girl who has the crush on the Hero but it can never happen.  

 

It's just annoying to see the Media and fans continue with this particular narrative when the show has reversed it to an extent.  Oliver is the only one to say I Love You..not Felicity.  Yeah he did it in a round about why and people could argue the first time was a lie but it's frustrating that they write it as if it's Felicity saying ILY and Oliver doing the walking.

[Chaser]

If a woman stares at a man, its pining. If a man stares at a women, its lust.

[blixie]

I think the Isabel episode played into that narrative most strongly, and honestly while Olicity fans seem to love it, I did not like that look on her. It felt very Willow finds out about Xander/Cordy (PS I hated Willow and her sideways bitchface and Xander was no more her sandwich than Buffy was his), that he'd hurt her *personally* but sleeping with someone (especially someone she didn't like, and who didn't like her) when they are most definitely not in any kind of relationship. Her"Why Her? sounded awfully close to "Why not me?" and he of course answered her as if that WAS what she asked.

 

Add in the Moira comments, and they definitely seem to want the audience to perceive her as crushing/pining for Oliver, but it's really clear to me Felicity is in no way as invested/hung up on Oliver as he is on her. So they failed that mission.

Edited November 5, 2014 by blixie

[fantique]

Huh? I didn't know Olicity fans loved it.

I didn't like it because it felt like they were hinting at a "why not me?" vibe which didn't feel like would be Felicity's thought process. I thought that she just was just genuinely wondering why the hell of all the people he decided to sleep with Isabel freaking Rochev. Like really? The woman who almost stole your company from under your nose and is a bitch to your friend? It would have been bad for it to have a "why not me" vibe because I doubt Felicity's ambition is to be Oliver's one night stand. I thought it was more about Oliver establishing he is not relationship ready at the time more than it was about Felicity's feeling for him though. This has already been discussed at length so I'm not going to go on.

 

I also think the Moira moment was more to affirm the fact that she had feelings. Because for a while, it almost felt like she just liked him as a friend whom she finds insanely attractive so it was for the audience to know: yes, she really does like him and it's not just an infatuation or her thinking he has a hot bod. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by fantique

[bethy]

There were some GREAT Team Arrow moments this week. Oliver and Diggle meeting Mama Smoak was wonderful, then the whole conversation about Baby Sarah being in the lair. The expression on Diggle's face was priceless.

I also loved the TA+1 scene where Felicity was upset and Roy and Diggle ease away so Oliver can talk to Felicity and when Oliver notices he makes this funny little gesture like "Really?" That I found amusing. Very cute.

[chaos is welcome]

Man team arrow (+1) I missed you. Don't mind that plus 1 btw. The way dig and Roy just fell back wordlessly so Oliver and f could talk....love!

[statsgirl]

I'm impressed that they actually found a way to need Roy this episode instead of just leaving Diggle in the lair and replacing him with Roy.  While Oliver went to 'save' Felicity and her mom, Diggle and Roy took care of the bad guys stealing the shipment,.

[wingster55]

I also loved the TA+1 scene where Felicity was upset and Roy and Diggle ease away so Oliver can talk to Felicity and when Oliver notices he makes this funny little gesture like "Really?" That I found amusing. Very cute.

 

I wish only Roy did that. Tired of deep intimate convos only happening between Oliver and Felicity. Diggle's the wiseman of the group. Use him!

[NumberCruncher]

I wish only Roy did that. Tired of deep intimate convos only happening between Oliver and Felicity. Diggle's the wiseman of the group. Use him!

I didn't have an issue with Oliver being the one to give Felicity the pep talks in this episode because looking back, Oliver has usually been the one getting them from her. It only felt right that he was finally able to be in the position as her shoulder to lean on. I'm always here for more Felicity/Diggle interaction, but while he has been a mentor figure to Oliver on plenty of occasions, that's not typically how his relationship has been with Felicity. Oliver providing the support system definitely seemed more appropriate and in-character here, IMO.

Edited November 6, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[apinknightmare]

Plus, Diggle knows how they feel about each other; he even encouraged Oliver to act on those feelings, so it's only natural that he'd make himself scarce to give them a moment. And like @NumberCruncher wrote, Diggle's always been more of Oliver's mentor than Felicity's. I like that Oliver was supportive of her; it's well deserved after all the times she's been there for him.

[tv echo]

Diggle now has Lyla to confide in.  Oliver and Felicity really only have each other to confide in, despite their relationship awkwardness.  I mean, they can still confide in Diggle, but he's got a family now that's got to come first.  Remember back when Felicity said that she had no one she could talk to about what they do, and Oliver said she could always talk to him.

Edited November 6, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

As others have said Diggle is more Oliver's mentor than Felicity so I'm not sure Diggle has more reason to be in Diggle's place.  However, neither scene would have really worked with Diggle.  The first scene is Oliver talking about Felicity not having her head in the game right after pushing her about Cooper and Felicity having a breakdown.  Oliver being the one to tell her "go home. take a break" is the only way the scene works, it's a follow up to the previous scene, a follow up to the last 2 times he yelled at her for not having her head in the game.

 

In the second scene Diggle wouldn't have worked given the subject of the talk and the episode.  Two of the major revelations were that Cooper wasn't dead and came back as Felicity's evil/psycho ex.  Both of those are things Oliver not Diggle has not only had direct relation too but has in fact been commented on/made fun of by others (audience and characters)

[Zalyn]

I didn't have an issue with Oliver being the one to give Felicity the pep talks in this episode because looking back, Oliver has usually been the one getting them from her. It only felt right that he was finally able to be in the position as her shoulder to lean on. I'm always here for more Felicity/Diggle interaction, but while he has been a mentor figure to Oliver on plenty of occasions, that's not typically how his relationship has been with Felicity. Oliver providing the support system definitely seemed more appropriate and in-character here, IMO.

This was one thing that really stood out to me in this episode too!  I'm hoping that it is a sign of Oliver actually beginning to grow emotionally and not just a one-time thing to make a good episode focused around Felicity (along with the awesomeness of her saving herself). It would mean he is actually learning something from D&F!

[Guest]

From spoiler thread but I figured it was more about relationships so:

 

I do think Oliver will make the decision to pursue a full, more balanced life by the end of this season, but yeah, that doesn't mean Felicity will be waiting in the wings by that point. If they haven't already spun Ray off into his own show, or torpedoed that relationship some other way, I could see her staying with him through the hiatus so we can save more drama into Season 4. Even if they are broken up, I could see her turning Oliver down because she's just not ready to believe him again. As much as I want that happy climactic moment for them at the end of the season, I don't want to miss the first five months of their relationship over the hiatus either, so if we have to do that, I'd rather delay until S4.

 

Given the way Felicity refused to react to Oliver's second sort of declaration of his love for her, I think something big has to happen between them for her to even think of going there with him again. At least, something big in the way he chooses to show he loves her. Oliver is going to have to say, specifically, I want you, I love you, I'm ready to fight for us. And he's going to have to fight for her. Show her that he's not going to push her away again when the going gets tough. 

 

So far I've been clinging to the idea/hope that the first episode of the season is usually paralleled in some way in the finale (and is also a kind of microcosm of the season as a whole so Olicity is definitely very important this season) so I've been thinking we're working towards Olicity in the finale but I do wonder if Oliver will simply come to a decision that he's ready for a relationship and we'll have to wait until s4 for the fallout/rewards.

 

But I agree. I think I'd rather wait until s4 for the start of their relationship because I don't want to miss another five months like we missed five months of them growing closer and flirting and losing all of their boundaries. I really feel like we missed out. 

[Carrie Ann]

I agree with all of this--it was perfect and lovely to have Oliver and Felicity reverse roles last night. They both learned a little something about the other that way, and I really need to see this from Oliver. So that was great. And I understand that they need to get Roy established on the team, and so he's getting some interactions with Felicity that would have gone to Dig (or Oliver or Sara) in the past. I like Roy this season, so I'm cool with that so far. 

 

And maybe most importantly, we've had a lot of really, really quality Diggle/Oliver moments this season, which were lacking a bit in S2, so I'm not going to complain.

 

But I do miss Diggle and Felicity and their implicit understanding and support of each other. And I'm hoping the pendulum will swing back a little in the mid-season, and we'll get more time with them together.

Particularly if some of the spoiler speculation is correct and Oliver is out of the picture for awhile. Hoping that means more time with D/F/Roy together; not just more time with F/Ray off together elsewhere.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

In s1, Diggle was the one teaching Felicity how to fight. Well done, Diggle!

 

Diggle is the wiseman of the group, but he's that mostly for Oliver.  He's been there, been in war, been married, and that's what he mentors Oliver about.  Felicity already has an 'A' in relationship stuff except when it comes to her parents, and as far as we know, Diggle has no experience of that.  

 

It seems to me that most of the Diggle/Felicity bonding moments have been over Oliver being an idiot, and he wasn't here.

[Genki]

So far I've been clinging to the idea/hope that the first episode of the season is usually paralleled in some way in the finale (and is also a kind of microcosm of the season as a whole so Olicity is definitely very important this season) so I've been thinking we're working towards Olicity in the finale but I do wonder if Oliver will simply come to a decision that he's ready for a relationship and we'll have to wait until s4 for the fallout/rewards.

 

 

 

I like the idea of the season being a microcosm of the season, if so, I hope we get more of Oliver opening  up to Felicity about the 5 years away, like he started to during the date.

 

Frankly I want to see both of them opening up to each other more about their pasts.

 

Oliver has never pushed Felicity to reveal stuff about herself, but I think he was a little hurt that something so major about her was never revealed to him before. Felicity rightfully called Oliver out on the hypocrisy. But these are 2 people in love, that share really intense life or death situations, but still have a lot more to share with each other and I would forgive the 5 month flirty-flirty off-screen if I can see progress towards opening up about Hong Kong/Family history. [Not really I want to see all the flirty-flirty too….I want it all]

 

Hopefully Felicity will be freer in dropping exposition about her family. Mention her Mom, grandparents, vegas, etc, more to team arrow.

 

I love the Smoaking Ladies,1 episode the audience can easily filled in so many blanks about how they relate to each other.

 

Mama Smoak knowing she can't bond with Felicity on her level intellectually and trying to bond emotionally, as a friend and sister type, and trying desperately to hold on, because she is afraid of losing her. Felicity humouring her Mom but feeling like Donna is always pushing her to be something she isn't, and feeling like she is failing to be the daughter that her Mom wants. And you can really see that she has had a fantastic influence on Felicity, which she has subconsciously picked up.

 

Papa Smaok has a lot to answer for!!

[statsgirl]

I really love that Felicity gets her strength from her mother, because her strength is awesome.  Theirs both is.

 

But I agree. I think I'd rather wait until s4 for the start of their relationship because I don't want to miss another five months like we missed five months of them growing closer and flirting and losing all of their boundaries. I really feel like we missed out. 

I would too, if I trusted these writers to write them in a good, stable relationship.  Well maybe. I don't want to go through the summer imaging Felicity is still dating Ray.

 

But since as soon as they get together, the writers are going to break them up again, I'd like Oliver to finally connect with Felicity in the season finale (there is still Checkhov's bed even if he is living with Thea right now), and then I can spend the summer imagining them together.  Not to mention the fanfic that would generate. 

[Genki]

Lol. Checkhov's bed

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh my gosh, I'm not sure that I can hang in there if Felicity and Oliver aren't going to end up together until next season.  I would like them to couple up before the end of this season, and then maybe either Felicity or Oliver has to conveniently go away for five months during the hiatus between seasons.  Maybe they can't be in contact for those five months (or however long the break is between seasons), so when season four begins, it's the first time that they've seen each other since the end of season three.  I would prefer that over eighteen more episodes of beating around the bush. 

[Zalyn]

I've been musing on whether there are effective techniques for showing adult siblings together and affectionate in ways that don't feel potentially incestuous.  I really like the idea of Oliver's and Thea's relationship as siblings and want to see more of it developing in light of recent events, but sometimes the vibes just feel off. Maybe it's Thea's half-a-shirt and newfound confidence, but Thea and Oliver having popcorn together in her place hasn't helped to dispel early concerns about a little too much chemistry.  But I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done; they just work well together, and I'm sure Willa's caught some of JB's "sexy chemistry with even a doorknob" affect, which isn't helping.

 

(I've been binging on Scandal, so I'm sure it's making me see everything through sex-tinted glasses too. )

[Password]

I would prefer that over eighteen more episodes of beating around the bush. 

 

I'm not sure whether you mean 18 episodes in season 4 or 3 but I don't think they're beating around the bush. If 4 apologies, but this strange "Is he your friend? No...he's Oliver." limbo is interesting to watch. Finally we have an episode where we see two characters, both on different journeys but still so intricately connected in the storyline speaking in undertones about their real feelings. And OK we also have Oliver straight up telling Felicity he wants to marry her (maybe not in so many words but really). At the end of the day, as enjoyable as it is for me to watch Oliver being a marsh mellow and at times a jealous fool , ("What about the boyfriend?" anybody?) I can't really fault Felicity for blanking him when he said what he did. He's still "dangling maybes" as Felicity put it so eloquently. I find myself very intrigued by when he'll decide to stop dangling maybes and give her solid "let's get married" vibes. Felicity still isn't getting what she wants from Mr. Queen and that's actual commitment and fight. So on this torrid affair goes, them breaking my heart with every lingering smile, every implication of something more, every time they don't touch. I don't know how they'll handle the Ray and Felicity relationship (which I'll endure) but I do think/hope (really hope) that by the finale of season 3, strides will have been taken to an actual relationship concerning Oliver and Felicity. It'll be interesting to see how Ray and Felicity end things. Maybe she decides she just still wants Oliver? Maybe it's very mutual? Maybe she sees something in Ray she doesn't want (like Coops). Interesting interesting.

 

You know when this fool decides to fight for his girl..yeah I just can't wait.

[statsgirl]

I wonder if Oliver realized he was dangling a maybe in that scene.  Good for Felicity for walking out, I woudn't have had the strength.

 

Lol. Checkhov's bed

I wish it were me but someone very clever on this board has to take credit for it (sorry that I can't remember who).

 

I've been musing on whether there are effective techniques for showing adult siblings together and affectionate in ways that don't feel potentially incestuous.  I really like the idea of Oliver's and Thea's relationship as siblings and want to see more of it developing in light of recent events, but sometimes the vibes just feel off. Maybe it's Thea's half-a-shirt and newfound confidence, but Thea and Oliver having popcorn together in her place hasn't helped to dispel early concerns about a little too much chemistry.  But I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done; they just work well together, and I'm sure Willa's caught some of JB's "sexy chemistry with even a doorknob" affect, which isn't helping.

I didn't mind the popcorn, it was kind of homey although I wonder about the choice of movie. But that half-shirt was sending all the wrong viewer signals.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm not sure whether you mean 18 episodes in season 4 or 3 but I don't think they're beating around the bush. If 4 apologies, but this strange "Is he your friend? No...he's Oliver." limbo is interesting to watch. Finally we have an episode where we see two characters, both on different journeys but still so intricately connected in the storyline speaking in undertones about their real feelings.

 

I meant 18 more episodes in this season.  While last night's episode was very good, and I would be fine watching that Oliver and Felicity relationship play out for a while more throughout this season, I'm afraid we're going to go straight back to the Oliver that we saw in the Sara/Corto Maltese episodes.  I don't want 18 more episodes of cranky Oliver who is a jerk to Felicity because he can't handle his feelings.  If they stick with the Oliver from last night and have him actually progress as a person, I'm OK with that. 

[chaos is welcome]

every time they don't touch.

But when they DO touch again? After months of not touching, after having kissed and having had this relationship of casual, too long touching building up for five months before that kiss? Yeah, that's going to be explosive. Like, burning down the building with heat. And when that happens, I'd like to think that these writers know there is no going back. He can't pull back from her again.