Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Soulfire]

It's fine, you can put what you wrote under a spoiler tag next time. That way those who want can click on the hidden text to reveal it. :)

[thegirlsleuth]

I am having a hard time quoting from another thread while on my phone, but I would like @LUCKYLYN's post in Social Media a dozen times if I could.  I think the reason Olicity took hold the way it did was because they weren't writing to it, because their instinct about romantic drama are terrible. Oliver is the hero so he always gets the sympathetic POV, leaving first Laurel and now Felicity look terrible at times.  For example, in my mind Felicity's reaction to the child in 4.08 was overblown and unfair to Oliver--I would have expected her to react how she did when he didn't show at the hospital--and her quitting the team was wrong because it was so fundamental to who she was.   The thing way, both of these actions were completely out of character. In the first case, I think they needed to justify Oliver's lie and the fact that he couldn't  trust her with the truth. I think there was a more complicated motive for the second--I think they needed Felicity far away from the Laurel death plot. As a fan I waited for Felicity to return to character--and she did--but if the romance was between Oliver and alt-Felicity I'd dislike her, too.

I think I would have walked away from this show if Oliver was played by a person other than Stephen Amell.  I think he's developed into a really good actor, and he has managed to convey Oliver's humanity even when he was at his most damaged.  I am also aware that part of the reason that I want Oliver and Felicity to get back together already is that Oliver is played by a good looking man who makes puppy dog eyes and says "Felicity" in a gentle voice--I'm not made of stone. That said, the garbage fire plot damaged what to me is the central strengths of the Oliver/Felicity relationship: He found a person with whom he could share all his secrets and discovered he could be loved even with his flaws. She found a person who could help her be the hero she longed to be. It is my single favorite romantic trope--I could write a long explanation that would include references to Farscape and Sherwood Anderson-- and the writers ruined it.  I think Stephen and Emily salvaged what they could, and I do plan to watch Season 5 to see how they resolve this, but I'd really like them to get Oliver and Felicity together once and for all and let them banter and fight crime and maybe have sex against a piller in the lair.

[Luckylyn]

If I didn't like SA performance as Oliver and he didn't sell those heart eyes at Felicity so well, Season 4 would have completely killed all my affection for Oliver.  It really bothered me that while Felicity was stuck in the hospital going through surgery and traumatic bad news about her ability to walk that Oliver didn't visit or even pick up a phone to talk to her leaving Felicity to wonder if he was breaking their engagement and have her forgive him immediately once he bothered to show up.  His reasons were about his personal insurities about not beating the one who hurt her with very little thought to what Felicity might need in her recovery. I would have been fine with her refusing to take back the engagement ring after that.  Oliver's behavior is especially glaring when they've showed him steadfast with characters like Thea and Laurel, being there for them when they have been hospitalized.  Felicity has always been there if he needed it and so his temporary abandonment when she needed him most was really frustrating to watch.

Then there's Oliver as a terrible father to William.  Dark targeted people close to mayoral candidates and Oliver being the Green Arrow endangered William yet he did nothing to protect the child.  He had no sercurity for him even after Malcolm reavealed he knew about William and wanted to do harm to Oliver.  The boy had been kidnapped for a couple of days and Oliver had no clue because he did absolutely nothing to protect William from obvious dangers.  Oliver kept the child a secret from the people who could be most trusted Felicity and Diggle and had the best skills to protect  William.   His secret visits to see William  would have raised a red flag to enemies who Oliver should know could be watching Oliver which is probably how Malcolm found out.  Everything Oliver did endangered William and made him vulnerable to his enemies all while Oliver claimed  to be protecting him.   The William story could have been handled without stupid illogical lies and Oliver looking like a fool.  The show never ever provided a good reason for him to lie about William to Felicity.  She has been Oliver's loyal secret keeper for years and would have been an asset to keeping William safe.  I think the writers failed to give Samantha a reasonable justification for insisting  Oliver to keep William a secret when they could have easily made her terrified because the previous mayoral candidate's daughter had been kidnapped instead of the lame you used to be a douchebag excuse.

All of this has soured me on Oliver a lot and it's a credit to SA that I don't completely hate Oliver and hope the next season redeems him enough so that can  rediscover why I used to enjoy him more.

[lemotomato]

So there has been this thing happening on tumblr called Olicity Bracketology-- basically Olicity scenes in a March Madness- style tournament, where the winner is determined by voting (reblogging or comment). Four seasons, four brackets. I thought it was interesting which scenes won in each round, although there weren't too many upsets. The higher ranked scenes usually won the matchup. Probably the biggest "surprise" win was the Count attack in 207 beating "He took the wrong woman/I love you" from 223.

Right now it's down to the Final Four, the most voted-for Olicity scene in each season pitted against each other:
1x03: First Meeting VS 2x07: “There was no choice to make”
3x20: First Time VS 4x06: Ying Yang Kiss

Previous round results:

Season 1
Round 2:
(1) 1x12: “You can trust me” (9 VOTES) VS (8) 1x15: “You’re not the only one who can reboot my system” (7 VOTES)
(5) 1x18: “If you ever need to tell someone about your day” (9 VOTES) VS (4) 1x12: “I ran out of sports bottles” (7 VOTES)
(3) 1x22: Platonic Circumstances (13 VOTES) VS (6) 1x23: “If you’re not leaving, I’m not leaving” (2 VOTES)
(2) 1x03: First Meeting (14 VOTES) VS (7) 1x21: “It feels really good having you inside me” (1)

Round 3:
(1)1x12: “You can trust me” (11 VOTES) VS (5) 1x18: “If you ever need to tell anyone about your day (8 VOTES)
(2) 1x03: First Meeting (15 VOTES) VS (3) 1x22: Platonic Circumstances (4 VOTES)

Round 4
(2) 1x03: First Meeting (13 VOTES) VS (1) 1x12: “You can trust me” (6 VOTES)

Season 2
Round 2
(1) 2x07: “There was no choice to make” (13 VOTES) VS (8) 2x02: “I need a Girl Wednesday” (6 VOTES)
(4) 2x10: “You’re my partner (12 VOTES) VS (5) 2x06: “Because of the life that I lead” (7 VOTES)
(3) 2x22: Clocktower Speech (13 VOTES) VS (6) 2x23: Beach Scene (5 VOTES)
(7) 2x07: Count Attack (10 VOTES) VS (2) 2x23: “He took the wrong woman”  (7 VOTES)

Round 3
(1) 2x07: “There was no choice to make” (12 VOTES) VS (4) 2x10: “You’re my partner” (5 VOTES)
(3) 2x22: Clocktower Speech (12 VOTES) VS (7) 2x07: Count Attack (5 VOTES)

Round 4
(1) 2x07: “There was no choice to make” (13 VOTES) VS (3) 2x22: Clocktower Speech (5 VOTES)

Season 3
Round 2:
(1) 3x20: First Time (11 VOTES) VS (8) 3x01: First Kiss (1 VOTE)
(5) 3x23: “I want to be with you” (9 VOTES) VS (13) 3x01: Fern and Flirt (3 VOTES)
(3) 3x09: “I know two things” (11 VOTES) VS (6) 3x23: “Don’t fight to die.  Fight to live” (1 VOTE)
(2) 3x01: First Date (10 VOTES) VS (10) 3x20: Good-Bye (2 VOTES)

Round 3:
(1) 3x20: First Time (13 VOTES) VS (5) 3x23: “I want to be with you” (0 VOTES)
(2) 3x01: First Date (9 VOTES) VS (3) 3x09: “I know two things” (4 VOTES)

Round 4
(1) 3x20: First Time (12 VOTES) VS (2) 3x01: First Date (7 VOTES)

Season 4
Round 2
(1) 4x09: The Proposal (12 VOTES) VS (8) 4x01: “You said there was no email in Bali!” (1 VOTE)
(4) 4x01: Domestic Bliss (4 VOTES) VS (5) 4x10: “For better or worse” (9 VOTES)
(3) 4x09: “I would have said yes” (11 VOTES) VS (11) 4x06: RIP Chicken and First Fight (1 VOTE)
(2) 4x09: Ying Yang Kiss (9 VOTES) VS (7) 4x16: Oliver’s Vows (3 VOTES)

Round 3:
(5) 4x10: “For Better or Worse” (8 VOTES) VS (1) 4x09: The Proposal (7 VOTES) 
(2) 4x06: Ying Yang Kiss (10 VOTES) VS (3) 4x09: “I would have said yes” (5 VOTES)

Round 4:
(2) 4x06: Ying Yang Kiss (12 VOTES) VS (5) 4x10: “For better or worse” (7 VOTES)

[SmallScreenDiva]

I love how creative the Olicity fandom gets!

Edited September 27, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
missing word

[kismet]

Wow, I wish I had heard about this earlier. It is really creative.

I'm not surprised the Count attack beat out he took the wrong woman. For me the Count attack was the first time I really became invested in O/F as an actual romantic couple with potential. That was the moment I jumped on board the O/F train. The wrong woman moment kept me from jumping off. But the Count attack is the one that hooked me. The emotions between them during that attack were just too potent & genuine. It was amazing. It really was eye-opening I think for the characters, the audience and the showrunners.

His reaction to her kidnapping from the phone call, abandoning the trial, arriving hood down, and then actually killing the Count with 3 (not just 1) arrows in the same spot was big on multiple levels. We had seen OQ drop everything to rescue someone he loves but never with such emotional urgency as that moment. Throughout the 4 seasons, I still think that is one of his most emotional rescues & kills ever, perhaps the top one. And we have seen a lot of OQ rescue missions - family members, rando "important" people and especially LL in s1 and TQ every season after that. But none of those top that Count rescue. I think perhaps the only one that is close is the rescue from the gas chambers of DD in s4.

[Guest]

Yeah, I actually find a lot of O/F's earlier interactions more romantic and meaningful than some of their moments as a couple. The scene where Oliver kills the Count said so much without words. Oliver couldn't bear the thought of losing Felicity and he reacted instantly. And how gentle he was with her afterwards. Plus "There was no choice to make." I'm a bit swoon-y. Hehe.

Actually that whole episode is fantastic. I'll always love Oliver's desperate "I have to go!" as he leaves Thea at the courthouse because he was so panicked/turned around by the thought of Felicity in danger. Following on from 206 and Oliver's reaction to Felicity seeing Isabelle leave his hotel room, it really cemented the idea that he had feelings for her, IMO. 

[EmilyBettFan]

2x06 also with the "someone I couldn't really care about" was swoon worthy to. Except his douchey move with Isabel. Ugh lol

[Guest]

Bringing over from the spoiler thread, discussion about the writers and their ability to write romance:

I'm with @apinknightmare. They seem to know how to write the happy part of relationships but that goes to hell when they want to throw a bit of drama their way.

I actually thought they wrote O/F pretty well in s4a, for the most part. I didn't even mind what they threw at them in 406 with Felicity's fear of losing herself in Oliver, though I didn't like how Felicity behaved in that episode. If they had tempered her reaction there, I wouldn't have had any issues with it. They introduced a conflict, they talked it out, it was resolved. I also liked how they were in 409, another episode which focused on their relationship. 

But where they fall apart is the contrived drama - the baby mama lie - which might as well have been a sign saying THIS IS GONNA BREAK UP OLICITY SOON. It was just so badly done. They could've introduced the kid and had Oliver push him away because it wasn't safe to get to know him and Felicity disagree with that, having been abandoned by her father. There's the in-character conflict to work through. But these writers don't try very hard tbh. They go the dumbest route for drama every single time.

[RussianRoulette]

Bringing it over from the spoiler thread too and in reply to @DCLeague

Re:"twist" with the accomplished, beautiful but nerdy woman getting the hero.

I am not at all arguing that it's novel storytelling in the history of all TV shows and literature. The confusion might perhaps stem from the word 'twist' but I meant that in the context of the Arrowverse and show. 

Oliver choosing Felicity, who he has very much chosen as his partner, and who is an accomplished professional is telling in the context of character growth post island and post season 1, in which he was pretty much bed-hopping. 

I say that because I also appreciate the fact that in the first two season  the writers wrote  Felicity as an accomplished woman in STEM fields who was confident in her abilities and, while she was crushing on Oliver, was still very much an independent, competent woman. 

That is also why I loved 4A and Oliver as a supportive boyfriend in her professional endeavors. 

I have a lot more to say on this issue but I'll keep that for a further post and reply in the Felicity thread. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

I am not at all arguing that it's novel storytelling in the history of all TV shows and literature.

My bad.

Quote

The confusion might perhaps stem from the word 'twist' but I meant that in the context of the Arrowverse and show. 

I say that because I also appreciate the fact that in the first two season  the writers wrote  Felicity as an accomplished woman in STEM fields who was confident in her abilities and, while she was crushing on Oliver, was still very much an independent, competent woman. 

I dont know if its  that unique in the Arrowverse or that it wont happen more in future seasons of all the DCWTVshows, but I respect that its a trope/type of love story you like to see, here. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by DCLeague

[dtissagirl]

I was reading you guys' replies in the news thread, and it got me thinking about Guggie's answer about Mayo being all about fan reaction, and how in the two episodes so far, fan reaction IS truly driving narrative. Fan reaction to Mayo is fucking driving CAMERA MOVEMENTS, even.

Here's the quote again:

Quote

 

She's also romantically involved with Detective Malone, as we saw at the end of 501; what can you say about their relationship? 

My best comment on that is that you’re gonna want to read my forthcoming book, How to Piss Off the Entire Internet. [Laughs.] At the end of the day, I love our fans, we have incredible fans — they are so passionate and I love their passion. Even when they’re angry at us, it’s still passion and still engagement with the show, and that’s great. Where I tend to part ways with some fans is, I write for the kind of viewer I am, I suppose; when I watch TV, I just want to be entertained. 

I recognize with social media and everything, that’s not enough for some fans. Some fans — not all of them, but some — don’t want to be entertained, they want to have influence on their entertainment. I think for better or for worse, we don’t write for those fans. I think the fact that we did put Felicity in a relationship… we’re not idiots, we knew it probably wouldn’t go over well with a segment of the fandom, but that can’t be why we don’t do something.  

 

The bold part is my favorite, because Guggie is talking about not wanting to be influenced by fan wishes, while writing Felicity's relationship with Mayo with only one intent in mind: to talk directly to fans. I truly hope they have SOME kind of story utility for Mayo in upcoming episodes that isn't about riling fans up, but so far, there isn't.

1. First Mayo scene, he's positioned as Pike's trusted guy, and that's he's a good cop. Pike has never been shown to be a bad cop, just an annoying one, who has tons of contempt for both Lance and Oliver. So Mayo is a good cop, but hangs out with the established cop guy who thinks Oliver is a playboy douchebag.

More interestingly, when Lance gives Oliver a list of HIS most trusted cops, Mayo is nowhere to be seen.

Also, neither Pike nor Mayo investigate anything further than that one scene, and it's Lance's cop team and Team Arrow that solve the criminal problem of the week.


2. Second Mayo scene is a close up in his tiny hands massaging Felicity's shoulders and the camera sloooooooowly pans up to reveal his Ken Doll hair and SURPRISE! He's not Oliver. He's one of the white cops previously introduced in the episode, that people literally cannot tell apart.

The whole intent of the camera movement was for the GOTCHA of the viewer realizing those minuscule hands didn't belong to Oliver. It's a camera movement designed to rile up fans.

Another thing is -- this is an in media res introduction of a relationship. By that I mean we don't see the start/evolution of the relationship, we're shown it for the first time as already established. Since the SINGLE previous detail we have about Mayo is that he's a cop, and nothing specific that relates to Felicity, it means that the only thing that matters here is telling the audience that Felicity is in a relationship with a white cop who's not Oliver. It doesn't matter who he is, or how they met, or how long they've been dating. All that matters is telling the audience -- the fans Guggie can't stop talking about -- that Felicity is Dating. Someone. Else.

3. Third Mayo scene is Felicity going to him with the piece of rag and the ridiculous story about the cleaning lady. She goes to him because some doodad's been broken at the Arrow bunker since the Ghosts attacked 5 months ago, and nobody thought to buy a new one. O-KAY. Super ~organic establishing why Felicity needed to go see Mayo.

Then Mayo makes no connection whatsoever to Felicity asking him to analyze a rag the very same day a dude with tentacle rags attacked a big event. Because this isn't about the rag, or the criminal problem of the week -- we don't even see Mayo giving Felicity the results, she just has a file he gave her offscreen. He's not here to be part of the A plot. He's here to tell the audience that Felicity hasn't introduced any of her friends to him yet. The point is to remind fans that Felicity is in a relationship with this dude, a relationship she seems to be keeping secret, while at the same time lying to the dude's face about her... entire way of living, I guess.

tl, dr: Mayo's entire existence in these two episodes was the equivalent of a character looking at the camera on The Office and saying, "Felicity is dating me, not the dude you want her to date."

[RussianRoulette]

But @dtissagirl isn't that the perfect reflection of MG's egomaniacal ~showrunning? You gotta laugh at his gotcha!moments. 

And, btw, super thanks! I thought the first time we saw "Billy" was in the last scene in the loft. Bland dude is bland. 

But yeah. Bravo at your post. I am at the airport, sleep deprived, and LMAO'ing like a hysteric hyena. Thanks! 

Edited October 13, 2016 by RussianRoulette
ETA: the bad hair should have tipped me off.

[dtissagirl]

24 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

I am at the airport, sleep deprived, and LMAO'ing like a hysteric hyena. Thanks! 

HAPPY TO PROVIDE THE LOLS. <3

[Morrigan2575]

From the media thread

Quote

4-10 had drama and even a touch of angst, but when Oliver and Felicity were together onscreen, they were so incredibly wonderful and gentle together.

You mean the 30 second scene at the end after he LEFT herin the hospital to go deal with his manpain the entire episode? Nope, IMO, he was an utter selfish shit in that episode. So yeah, i kind of wished she dumped his ass right then and there.

[Chaser]

I loved the Bali and For Better or For Worse scenes superficially, but I HATED that she lost the use of her legs and the scenes were aimed at HIS actions and THEIR relationship.

What about her? Why couldn't she break?

[Thundercatmary]

I always loved the scene where Oliver told Felicity she didn't have to be funny for him. I forget what episode that was but I really loved it.

[Morrigan2575]

I believe that was 411 and Oliver in 411 was good.

It's Oliver in 410 that can drive me into a rage because he was so damn selfish. SA/EBR have amazing chemistry and they can make a crap scene into something beautiful but, not even their outstanding chemistry can make up for the first 40 minutes of that episode (for me). 

[lemotomato]

49 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

I always loved the scene where Oliver told Felicity she didn't have to be funny for him. I forget what episode that was but I really loved it.

413, after Felicity tried to laugh off turning in her dad to the police and right before Oliver re-proposed and suggested moving up the wedding. 

[Sasha]

I believe Oilicity is truly over. More dead and buried than Laurel. TPTB thought they were writing an action movie with a side of romance. Somebody got scared they were writing a chick flick with Olicity and some fan boys no longer thought Arrow was cool. Oliver can't be the tough alpha male if he's in love. Felicity emasculated him. He was getting his ass kicked. Now he's cool again. It's back to basics of a mediocre show with mediocre ratings on a mediocre network. It will drag on and then fade away like most of the CW shows. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

I believe Oilicity is truly over. More dead and buried than Laurel. TPTB thought they were writing an action movie with a side of romance. Somebody got scared they were writing a chick flick with Olicity and some fan boys no longer thought Arrow was cool. Oliver can't be the tough alpha male if he's in love. Felicity emasculated him. He was getting his ass kicked. Now he's cool again.

Romance still exist in the show and probably will always will. Its just Olicity thats been taken off the table , they got their shot and things didnt work out so well. Just the nature of the business, they once swapped Oliver/Laurel for Oliver/Felicity because thats what they believed was good for the story/show,  well now they dont believe Olicity is the best thing for the story and show. It happens in long running serials, very few things remain the same for the entire series, due to creative or business reasons. They may change their mind, they may not, only the future knows. Just my 2 cents on that. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by DCLeague

[statsgirl]

I feel like we should be taking bets 0n this because I'm pretty sure that 90% of the posters on this forum feel that Olicity is far from dead.  The only question is when will it be revived, and how far in the muck of other love interests do we have to go before we can see the sky again.

My money is on February sweeps for them to get back together.

Edited October 14, 2016 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

Yep. I'm still on Feb sweeps. 

Nothing in these two episodes has convinced me otherwise. It's actually reinforced it.

[Mellowyellow]

I think it's over. I'm just bitter because I purely started watched the show on the premise that Oliver was engaged to someone as amazing as Felicity  (I hadn't joined this board and seen all the depressing spoilers for 4B yet).

I'd love to be wrong but if the ending of How I Met Your Mother taught me anything it's that writers will write whatever they want. Much like fanfic really!

Zen............if I could get over the gawd awful ghastly HIMYM ending I can get over this lol!

[CabotCove]

Im staying neutral, anything can happen in TVland, is my motto.

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Romance still exist in the show and probably will always will. Its just Olicity thats been taken off the table , they got their shot and things didnt work out so well. Just the nature of the business, they once swapped Oliver/Laurel for Oliver/Felicity because thats what they believed was good for the story/show,  well now they dont believe Olicity is the best thing for the story and show. It happens in long running serials, very few things remain the same for the entire series, due to creative or business reasons. They may change their mind, they may not, only the future knows. Just my 2 cents on that. 

Unless of course, Olicity is the end game and this is just a stupidly long stall. :)

[Thundercatmary]

1 hour ago, DCLeague said:

Romance still exist in the show and probably will always will. Its just Olicity thats been taken off the table , they got their shot and things didnt work out so well.

I disagree completely, Olicity worked very well in 4a. It worked so well that they had to invent drama with that garbage BMD story to split them up.

So yeah I think it's a stall.

ETA: One thing I do wonder, how both O/F would handle having other LI's and still being friends. I mean imagine being the bf/gf and knowing O/F spend so much time together? 

Like imagine it? "Hey honey I spent all night doing mysterious things with my hot ex fiancé." 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Thundercatmary
Profound thoughts

[looptab]

6 hours ago, Sasha said:

I believe Oilicity is truly over. More dead and buried than Laurel. TPTB thought they were writing an action movie with a side of romance. Somebody got scared they were writing a chick flick with Olicity and some fan boys no longer thought Arrow was cool. Oliver can't be the tough alpha male if he's in love. Felicity emasculated him. He was getting his ass kicked. Now he's cool again. It's back to basics of a mediocre show with mediocre ratings on a mediocre network. It will drag on and then fade away like most of the CW shows. 

I don't believe it's over, but yeah, I don't like that the way they are doing this, it will seem as if Oliver got back to ass-kicking once he was no longer with her.  As if the two things are on any way related, when they are not.

How they'll handle them being with other LIs while still working together is an interesting question - usually in other shows, the exes barely interact when they move on to other people, and that's something that on Arrow is not quite doable - unless they keep Felicity out of the bunker and focused onto other endeavors.

Edited October 14, 2016 by looptab

[SmallScreenDiva]

5 hours ago, Sasha said:

I believe Oilicity is truly over. More dead and buried than Laurel. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

Unless of course, Olicity is the end game and this is just a stupidly long stall. :)

Well just my deduction we all have our beliefs on whats going on lately:). 

If hypothetically if this is all for stall, then its to me its a foolish choice and would be doing the Olicity situation no favours.

 

Quote

I disagree completely, Olicity worked very well in 4a. It worked so well that they had to invent drama with that garbage BMD story to split them up. So yeah I think it's a stall.

    The whole break up over William was unfortunate, but to me Olicity has bigger problems than that. While stalling was the initial intend, I dont think its  about that anymore. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by DCLeague

[Midnight Lullaby]

I honestly don't know if the plan is to replace Olicity or not. I think to do that though they'd have to find a woman that has more chemistry with SA than Emily, with Emily right there to remind us of how good the Olicity scenes are because of them. Unless they kill Felicity than they wouldn't have the comparison right there but I don't see that ever happening unless the actress wants to leave.

The "problem" is that they made a big deal out of Olicity, bigger than any other of Oliver's romantic relationships ever was. Even when they avoided it to talk about action at SDCC every journo asked about them and they keep mentioning them to get online buzz..both journalists and the writers..do they want to lose that and fade into oblivion? That is what I doubt.

[Mellowyellow]

3 hours ago, DCLeague said:

   The whole break up over William was unfortunate, but to me Olicity has bigger problems than that. While stalling was the initial intend, I dont think its  about that anymore. 

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think the problems with Olicity are.  Could you delve into it?

Not asking this question with any hostility by the way even though I'm a big Olicity Shipper. My husband loved Ray/Felicity (haha when 4B blew up he was all "See Ray didn't have any illegitimate kids running around he had to lie about") because he honestly thinks Oliver is too dumb for Felicity and in every day life he doesn't see how they'd get along. 

[Sasha]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I feel like we should be taking bets 0n this because I'm pretty sure that 90% of the posters on this forum feel that Olicity is far from dead.  The only question is when will it be revived, and how far in the muck of other love interests do we have to go before we can see the sky again.

My money is on February sweeps for them to get back together.

You guys are way more positive than me. My Funko Pops are sitting in a box gathering dust along with any excitement I had for the show. I watched the season opener live but I felt like the bland new cop boyfriend was a big fat fuck you to Olicity fans. Episode two was background noise while I posted pictures of my tortoise on Instagram. I don't think I'll be around for February sweeps and my Pops will be for sale on Ebay. TPTB have made it perfectly clear I'm not the audience they want or need. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I watched the first episode and can't muster the will to watch the second, hahaha.

I want to see what they are doing with the season as a whole before deciding to binge watch it or let it go completely..

The boyfriend doesn't "worry" me at all but I find it annoying that instead of having Oliver and Felicity have a on screen conversation about their relationship and show what the characters are thinking about that they gave Felicity a boyfriend to show the audience she is unavailable. At least show them meet to make us understand or something..meh..lazy.

[CabotCove]

Quote

 

I'm genuinely curious as to what you think the problems with Olicity are.  Could you delve into it?

Not asking this question with any hostility by the way even though I'm a big Olicity Shipper.

 

Cool, you dont sound hostile at all ✌.

My take is that the writers are too much enamored with Olicity to write them properly and honestly, .  Since they cant fire the writers, its Olicity that has/d to pay the price, well thats the summarised version of it¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - .  

[dtissagirl]

The single possible event that'll ever make me think O/F is over is if EBR leaves the show.

[quarks]

On 10/13/2016 at 7:25 AM, dtissagirl said:

3. Third Mayo scene is Felicity going to him with the piece of rag and the ridiculous story about the cleaning lady. She goes to him because some doodad's been broken at the Arrow bunker since the Ghosts attacked 5 months ago, and nobody thought to buy a new one. O-KAY. Super ~organic establishing why Felicity needed to go see Mayo.

Then Mayo makes no connection whatsoever to Felicity asking him to analyze a rag the very same day a dude with tentacle rags attacked a big event. Because this isn't about the rag, or the criminal problem of the week -- we don't even see Mayo giving Felicity the results, she just has a file he gave her offscreen. He's not here to be part of the A plot. He's here to tell the audience that Felicity hasn't introduced any of her friends to him yet. The point is to remind fans that Felicity is in a relationship with this dude, a relationship she seems to be keeping secret, while at the same time lying to the dude's face about her... entire way of living, I guess.

tl, dr: Mayo's entire existence in these two episodes was the equivalent of a character looking at the camera on The Office and saying, "Felicity is dating me, not the dude you want her to date."

I had a slightly different read on the third Mayo Cop scene, which is that the show went out of its way to parallel and contrast that scene with the many first season scenes where Oliver lied to Felicity, especially since Felicity alluded to that again in her big talk with Oliver about leadership and trust. 

That is, in the Mayo Cop scene, Felicity is turning into season one Oliver - trying to get information out of someone without telling them the truth, and lying to said person, badly. The contrast is that a) season one Felicity was in a position where she couldn't say no to Oliver - he was the son/stepson of the owners of the company, and an almost throwaway line showed that Felicity had been butting heads with her supervisor and, despite her own confidence in her skills, knew there was a really good chance that she could get fired, and b) Felicity was immediately suspicious. In her first encounter with Oliver, based on something less weird than 2000 year old rags, she told him she didn't want to get involved in something like this. In a later episode, she wanted to call the police.

Here, Mayo Cop is confronted with an outright lie by Felicity - one that he even catches. She's not his boss, and (probably) can't get him fired - he's presumably aware that she was once engaged to the mayor of the city and may still be friends with the mayor, but it's not as direct of a relationship as Oliver had with Walter and Moira. And, what Felicity gives him is something even more suspicious than a laptop full of bullet holes or an energy drink in a syringe - 2000 year old rags doused in radiation that can be pretty specifically tied to a specific corporation, just a few hours/a day after the CEO of said corporation got attacked by a magical guy with rags. THIS IS VERY SUSPICIOUS, MAYO COP.  And yet, what does he do? Apparently nothing. He doesn't even suggest that she get some medical tests to make sure her exposure to radioactive material hasn't caused any lasting harm. YOU ARE A TERRIBLE COP, MAYO COP.

But basically, I think the scene was partly meant to show us that Felicity is actually becoming more like Oliver - that is, a better match for him in many ways. The scene with Ragman suggests that she's also going to start genuinely understanding Oliver's traumas, instead of just sympathizing with them.

On the related subject, of Olicity being completely over....

In the last episode, we saw:

1. Felicity lie to Mayo Cop, and Mayo Cop complain that he's never met any of her friends, strongly suggesting that this is neither a deep nor healthy relationship.

2. Felicity admit that she still finds Oliver hot, and that she was in awe of his passion/commitment when they first met.

3. In a major Olicity scene, Felicity explaining how/why she's staying by him, despite the breakup. 

4. Oliver following her advice/leadership.

5. Oliver and Felicity continuing to work together and (on Felicity's side) joke together.

None of this exactly screams "Olicity is over!" to me.

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, quarks said:

But basically, I think the scene was partly meant to show us that Felicity is actually becoming more like Oliver - that is, a better match for him in many ways. The scene with Ragman suggests that she's also going to start genuinely understanding Oliver's traumas, instead of just sympathizing with them.

I really like this. Yes.

Even in the first episode, while the camera was panning from teeny tiny hands to Ken doll hair, the only thing I was thinking about was what the fuck does Felicity tell this goober about what she does all day dressed up like the CEO of a company she isn't CEO of anymore, that makes her get home exhausted after a "long day".

 

[tv echo]

8 hours ago, looptab said:

How they'll handle them being with other LIs while still working together is an interesting question - usually in other shows, the exes barely interact when they move on to other people, and that's something that on Arrow is not quite doable - unless they keep Felicity out of the bunker and focused onto other endeavors.

Laurel and Oliver were exes and Laurel became part of Team Arrow, interacting with Oliver just about every day and supposedly becoming friends with Felicity.  At one point, the Arrow Bunker was filled with three women that Oliver had slept with - Felicity, Laurel and Samantha.  Sara is also an ex and is friends with both Oliver and Felicity.  The two sisters, Sara and Laurel, both slept with Oliver off and on, and ended up reconciling with each other and with Oliver, and even fighting alongside him.  This show will do whatever will serve their plot purposes.

Edited October 14, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, i don't get the Olicity is over stuff. The show sure as hell hasn't ended Olicity. What with all the heart to heart talks, support (Felicity to Oliver as per usual) and the comments that Felicity finds Oliver hot (still), Diggle bringing them up and Oliver's "ambiguous" answer.

Hell, compare Olicity to WestAllen this week and tell me the weren't handled almost exactly the same. So unless WestAllen is dead and burried too...

Edited October 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[RussianRoulette]

I also agree with the previous posters. I don't feel like Olicity is over either - the first two episodes of this seasons actually showed a lot of meaningful interactions between them.

That is why I am completely puzzled with the "we are writing away from the romance" comments. What does that mean? And how is them interacting meaningfully (bland BF aside), writing away from romance? I know they are extensive users of TV tropes and all but wouldn't it be easier and more logical to just write them as trying to overcome the BMD drama towards rebuilding their relationship? 

(Ahaha yeah but then no drama!!11!) 

[bijoux]

31 minutes ago, quarks said:

That is, in the Mayo Cop scene, Felicity is turning into season one Oliver - trying to get information out of someone without telling them the truth, and lying to said person, badly. The contrast is that a) season one Felicity was in a position where she couldn't say no to Oliver - he was the son/stepson of the owners of the company, and an almost throwaway line showed that Felicity had been butting heads with her supervisor and, despite her own confidence in her skills, knew there was a really good chance that she could get fired, and b) Felicity was immediately suspicious. In her first encounter with Oliver, based on something less weird than 2000 year old rags, she told him she didn't want to get involved in something like this. In a later episode, she wanted to call the police.

c) Oliver and Felicity were strangers, then acquaintances at this stage, they certainly weren't in a relationship. Maybe there's a parallel there to Oliver and McKenna in this part. Cop, seemingly or supposedly an ok individual, gets pumped for information which can help Arrow business on a semi-regular basis.

The possibility of Billy being future time-travelling William amuses me greatly. If the writers actually did go this crazy, I'd need him to be Prometheus as well, so he's sticking it to both Oliver and GA. Also, the parallel to oliver, Isabel and Robert is comedy gold.

[looptab]

14 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Remember, though, Laurel and Oliver were exes and Laurel became part of Team Arrow, interacting with Oliver just about every day and supposedly becoming friends with Felicity.  At one point, the Arrow Bunker was filled with three women that Oliver had slept with - Felicity, Laurel and Samantha.  Sara is also am ex and is friends with both Oliver and Felicity.  This show will do whatever will serve their plot purposes.

Yeah, but Oliver and Laurel had maybe three one on one scenes post S2. We barely saw Sara on the show anymore, her scenes during her episodes last season were with Laurel.

What I meant was that in other shows - the ones where everyone sleeps with everyone - they keep the former couple mostly separated, and sure, this could happen on Arrow too - it happened in S3 with the famous Palmer Island. But not totally, due to the nature and dynamic of the Team.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think they paved the way to end Felicity/Tiny Hands very quickly..she doesn't feel comfortable introducing him to her friends and he might say she isn't ready to let him in and that's the kind of relationship he wants..the usual friendly break up that might lead to him sticking around anyway.

I want to see what they plan to do with Oliver though..but it comforts me that SA doesn't have romantic chemistry with 90% of the female population. Thank you Steve.

[looptab]

Stephen be like 'I will go down with this ship'???

[SonofaBiscuit]

 Hmm, I'm not convinced that there will be an Olicity reunion by February.  It makes no sense to me why the EPs keep releasing interviews that are turning the people who enjoy the Olicity aspect of the show away from the show/social media.  I'm kind of ??? about why they keep pushing the "we're writing away from romance" stuff so hard if they just intend to put the couple back together soon.  Like, people are reaching their breaking points, so a bit of hope might be good if you expect the shippers to still be around by the time the reunion happens.  Don't get it at all. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think he tries..but if you don't have chemistry you don't..*cough* Poppy *cough*

[dtissagirl]

13 minutes ago, looptab said:

What I meant was that in other shows - the ones where everyone sleeps with everyone - they keep the former couple mostly separated, and sure, this could happen on Arrow too - it happened in S3 with the famous Palmer Island. But not totally, due to the nature and dynamic of the Team.

Agreed. A lot of Laurel's presence in Oliver's life in S3 and S4 is offscreen, because they did go out of their way to minimize their solo scenes together after S1. They were 100% treated as typical TV exes. She was in his life, and in Felicity's life, but we actually saw very very little of it.

501 and 502 so far have completely obliterated my favorite pet theory that Arrow is Berlanti remaking Dawson's Creek, because DC S5 was when Pacey and Joey pretended not to know each other. Even he was dating. her. roommate. they still acted like complete strangers, and had very very minimal screentime alone together.

OTOH, 501 and 502 had both the implication that O/F spent the entire 5 months working together just the two of them, and the actual screen time together -- including several pointed and poignant scenes.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, SonofaBiscuit said:

I'm just kind of ??? about why they keep pushing the "we're writing away from romance" stuff so hard if they just intend to put the couple back together soon.

Well, they pushed it right up until last ep, which was the most Olicity ep to ever Olicity since sometime early last year. I think it's just because they're really terrible at their jobs - Wendy especially doesn't seem to know anything at all about the nuance of piquing anyone's interest. She just walks around verbally pooing everywhere. 

[looptab]

I don't know whether this is my faulty memory starting to pull jokes on me, but I think these interviews aren't that different from the ones they gave in S3. With the whole Ray stuff. When they wanted us to believe that Felicity had the perfect guy and she and Oliver were never ever ever happening.