Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[statsgirl]

I agree, loneliness can happen even when we are not alone.  In fact, it's a major cause of depression among otherwise well functioning adults.  Just because Laurel was in a relationship with Oliver and had two parents who loved her and a sister, and friends and a purpose in life doesn't mean that she wasn't lonely.

 

But the problem is that the show has never hinted that Laurel is lonely.  Family-wise no other character is as well-off as she is, and she's got friends who didn't die in the Glades (unlike Roy).  Sara was probably very lonely while she was gone (and possibly while still at home too since Laurel appeared to be the favoured daughter, Tommy's mother died and his father abandoned him, Thea has lost three parents, Sin lost both parents and ended up living on the street, Roy's mother died and addict, Diggle lost his brother and it's been stated on the show that Felicity has a fear of abandonment and feels like Team Arrow is her new-found home.

 

By the time the Lances' marriage ended, Laurel had already moved out of the family home.  Without any indication or canon reason for Laurel to be lonely, it just ends up looking like something made up to justify when Laurel is being a bitch. 

[dtissagirl]

Wow, I disagree with everything about that premise. I don't believe Oliver's biggest obstacle is loneliness. I don't see Laurel as "the most" lonely: Sara and Felicity -- hell, even Sin and Roy -- were given just as much textual evidence of being lonely, perhaps even more so than Laurel. And even if she were the loneliest, I don't see how that would make her relate to Oliver better, since his loneliness was about surviving dangerous life threatening situations without being able to forge lasting trusting relationships, while Laurel's was about grief and abandonment.

Even more so, if they had had the exact same kind of experience that made them wholeheartedly relatable to each other above anyone else, the show itself killed the idea that Oliver's ideal romantic partner needs to be his mirror -- when they went out of their way to parallel Oliver and Sara's journeys, then put them romantically together, than dismantled their relationship amicably because they weren't what the other needed.

[Starfish35]

To me it's not so much about whether Laurel has experienced loneliness or not. My issue is with the claim that she is the only one who can truly understand and empathize with Oliver's loneliness because she's the only woman in his life who has truly experienced it. To which I say - 1) WTF, 2) we are not watching the same show, and 3) I do not think that word means what you think it means. ;)

Edited September 22, 2014 by Starfish35

[wingster55]

Sara and Felicity -- hell, even Sin and Roy -- were given just as much textual evidence of being lonely, perhaps even more so than Laurel.

 

I'd add Thea to that list. More so than Felicity imo.

[statsgirl]

Definitely Thea should be on that list, for when she lost Robert and Oliver and Moira withdrew, for when she lost Walter, Oliver left and Moira was in jail, and after Moira died and Thea was the one who withdrew from Oliver and Walter.

 

But not more than Felicity imo.  It makes a lot of difference to emotional health (the studies tell us) how long you had a stable loving family.  Felicity lost her father at a young age (someone said 5) and had a conflicted relationship with her mother afterwards.  Thea had a loving, stable family until she was 12.  Laurel had hers until she was 22.

 

I'd say Sin and Roy are the worst off there.

 

ETA: and maybe Tommy, who lost his family when he was 8.

Edited September 22, 2014 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

Felicity lost her father at a young age (someone said 5) and had a conflicted relationship with her mother afterwards.

To be fair, we don't exactly know this, we can only assume! While it definitely is a vibe that I've gotten when Felicity described her mother as... her mother, we can't really say this for sure.

 

But, we can say she's felt lonely because of that cut scene where Felicity said the foundry was the first place she ever truly felt home. 

[statsgirl]

Speaking of being lonely/alone, the other day I was thinking if Tommy had survived the Undertaking and wanted to talk to someone about it, who would he talk to?  Even if Oliver had stayed in Starling City (since Tommy didn't die), things would have been uncomfortable between them from that whole 'sleeping with Laurel' thing.  Ditto Laurel.  Malcolm Merlyn was dead (supposedly) and Moira was in jail for colluding with him.  Quentin Lance didn't like him and Roy and Felicity didn't know him. Possibly Thea but she would have been too young to dump all that angst on. The only person I could come up with was Raisa, from when he grew up around the Queen Manor after Malcolm left him.

 

So if anyone knows lonely, I'd say it's Tommy. 

[calliope1975]

Speaking of being lonely/alone, the other day I was thinking if Tommy had survived the Undertaking and wanted to talk to someone about it, who would he talk to?  

 

Clearly that's why Tommy had Felicity's number in his phone. ;D  I'd like to imagine there were lots of late night texts about how jerky Oliver was being. 

[writersblock51]

I hadn't given much thought to the 'loneliness' factor on the show but there certainly are a LOT of lonely characters on it!

[TanyaKay]

I think there was a fanfic about Tommy surviving Undertaking and then Felicity and Tommy becoming Besties when Ollie ran away to Lian Yu for failing to stop the undertaking. Felicity even drove Tommy for his physical therapy in that fic, I think I enjoyed reading that one.

[Nanrad]

Tanya, I need a link. Please and thank you. :-) *you can direct me to the fic thread if you post it*

[Password]

EBR said in the DIY interview that she likes angsty drawn out romances because once the couple gets together it gets boring and she quits the show. I mean I know it's her opinion but I can't help but think in relation to Oliver and Felicity, that wouldn't work. Or rather that's not how I think it should work. What I love about their relationship is how uncomplicated it is. She knows his secrets, he doesn't have to hide his identity and nighttime activities and mostly, she believes in what he's doing. The same goes for him, he can open up to her emotionally and not keep secrets (which ways him down) and know she'll always be a good friend to him. What I love about team Arrow (O-D-F) is that they're allowed to just be open to each other. No barriers, no lies. Other than what Oliver still keeps close to his heart, they don't take BS from each other. It's so refreshing and appealing when all Oliver does is lie to his loved ones. To me a slow burn for the two of them wouldn't consist of angsty, jealousy will they/won't they contrivances. But honest to goodness honesty about their feelings and insecurities. I'm far more inclined to believe Oliver isn't ready because of his many personal battles, than because of the danger he puts those close to himself in. I mean I think EBR said he's built a wall around himself that's slowly coming down because of all his past indiscretions and that's wonderful to see. If the show tackles those issues head on, I'd be more than pleased.

 

I'm also of the opinion that I just don't buy the whole "because of the life that I lead..." thing. It makes no sense to me.

[looptab]

I'm also of the opinion that I just don't buy the whole "because of the life that I lead..." thing. It makes no sense to me.

Especially considering she is often in danger anyways. I can't wait to see how they're going to keep them apart..I hope they don't mess it up!

[writersblock51]

...

 

...

To me a slow burn for the two of them wouldn't consist of angsty, jealousy will they/won't they contrivances. But honest to goodness honesty about their feelings and insecurities. I'm far more inclined to believe Oliver isn't ready because of his many personal battles, than because of the danger he puts those close to himself in. I mean I think EBR said he's built a wall around himself that's slowly coming down because of all his past indiscretions and that's wonderful to see. If the show tackles those issues head on, I'd be more than pleased.

 

I'm also of the opinion that I just don't buy the whole "because of the life that I lead..." thing. It makes no sense to me.

 

Well said - I think Oliver already has enough personal fears, insecurities, rage, stress and scars to ensure that any romantic relationship is going to be a lot of work.  Add Felicity's insecurities and scars and there's no way things will be boring and smooth sailing for them.  Doesn't have to mean a frustrating On and Off again thing either, rather a relationship where they have to be patient with each other, know when to push or pull and when to back off. 

 

The 'life that I lead' line is, at the tme and in retrospect, a pile of baloney BUT... I think it's important because it's what Oliver truly believed in his heart at that time. The audience (and probably Felicity) knew it was BS but Oliver either believed it or wanted to believe it.   I don't think that line - as iconic as it has become in regards to Oliver's feelings for Felicity or anyone - was meant to convince the audience that he shouldn't be with someone he loves.  I believe it was to show us what he's trying to convince himself of.  I think he's going to fall back on that this season, too, after the disastrous first date. 

Though it would be an interesting spin if Felicity takes up that line for herself.

 

Oliver has clearly been trying to distance himself from his loved ones that knew him before the island.  I think he believes they wouldn't love him if they knew what he'd become; Sara had this same fear as well.  But it's never kept them from danger, and that's the foolish aspect of that line of thinking. 

[statsgirl]

I want a slow burn, not on-again/off-again relationship for the two of them because I've had more than enough relationship angst with Oliver already.

 

I disagree with what EBR said, but upon thinking about it, I think she said the right thing.  There is enough Olicity push among the audience already, she doesn't need to add more. In fact I like the idea of the actors cooling it down, and leaving it to the producers and media to fuel it.

 

Besides, the alternative is to say, as Katie Cassidy said about Oliver and Laurel "they're made for each other."

[TanyaKay]

This is what I love about EBR most. She never talks up anything other than her character. Since season 1, she has been asking to show her home and a parent and she is gonna get them both in season 3. Apart from that, I have never seen her play up or down anything that is not directly related to her character, not even relationships or friendships. She just knows her character well and wants better things for her. This is how every actor should be, dedicated to the character you are playing and her story arc.

Edited September 24, 2014 by TanyaKay

[Angel12d]

EBR said in the DIY interview that she likes angsty drawn out romances because once the couple gets together it gets boring and she quits the show. I mean I know it's her opinion but I can't help but think in relation to Oliver and Felicity, that wouldn't work. Or rather that's not how I think it should work. What I love about their relationship is how uncomplicated it is. She knows his secrets, he doesn't have to hide his identity and nighttime activities and mostly, she believes in what he's doing. The same goes for him, he can open up to her emotionally and not keep secrets (which ways him down) and know she'll always be a good friend to him. What I love about team Arrow (O-D-F) is that they're allowed to just be open to each other. No barriers, no lies. Other than what Oliver still keeps close to his heart, they don't take BS from each other. It's so refreshing and appealing when all Oliver does is lie to his loved ones. To me a slow burn for the two of them wouldn't consist of angsty, jealousy will they/won't they contrivances. But honest to goodness honesty about their feelings and insecurities. I'm far more inclined to believe Oliver isn't ready because of his many personal battles, than because of the danger he puts those close to himself in. I mean I think EBR said he's built a wall around himself that's slowly coming down because of all his past indiscretions and that's wonderful to see. If the show tackles those issues head on, I'd be more than pleased.

 

I'm also of the opinion that I just don't buy the whole "because of the life that I lead..." thing. It makes no sense to me.

 

From everything I've read and all the spoilers they've given out, I quite like the way they're going to slow burn Oliver and Felicity's romance. Usually a show drags out a romance for at least four seasons before anything solid happens and here we are in the first episode of s3 and they're going to declare their feelings for each other and go on a date. I know their romance gets put on a back burner for the rest of the season but what I love about that is there's no doubt about their feelings. We know that there's something to root for when things get angsty and tough.

 

Because as much as I love Oliver and Felicity's friendship and how wonderfully that could translate into a relationship, there is still some growth needed on both sides before that can happen. So I can see from that aspect why they should draw it out a little longer. I think the show can afford to do that. 

 

I do agree that the 'because of the life I lead' excuse is bullshit though. Felicity could still get hurt by being on the team regardless of whether she dates Oliver or not. I hope the excuse in 301 is more than that this time otherwise yawn. 

[statsgirl]

Maybe the because of the life I lead' excuse is not really about Oliver protecting the other person, but Oliver protecting himself from getting caught up and caring about someone else too much.  

That could tie in to why after the date he calls it off, because he's the one who is failing if he's in a relationship.

[Shanna]

And Felicity had been helping Oliver with his night job, albeit unknowingly, since 1x03, so I have no problem considering her an original member of Team Arrow.

Exactly! She was part of the team before she even realized there was a team.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shanna

[DrSpaceman10]

I've noticed that news/media tends to refer to Felicity as love-struck and Oliver is presumed to have friend-zoned Felicity, when Felicity is the one who has never verbalized her feelings for Oliver. I wonder why that is? I'm hoping the premiere clears some of that up...

Edited September 24, 2014 by drspaceman10

[TanyaKay]

Tanya, I need a link. Please and thank you. :-) *you can direct me to the fic thread if you post it*

Here it is but the writer never finished it http://archiveofourown.org/works/1027526/chapters/2045862

[HighHopes]

I've noticed that news/media tends to refer to Felicity as love-struck and Oliver is presumed to have friend-zoned Felicity, when Felicity is the one who has never verbalized her feelings for Oliver. I wonder why that is? I'm hoping the premiere clears some of that up...

 

 

My sister and I have watched up to 2x15 and I asked about how she's feeling about the show. She's not a fan of Sara (doesn't like the recasting of the actress) and she said that the reason they always should Felicity right after they showed the Canary (before we know it was Sara) was to set up the jealousy. She also didn't see any thing between Oliver and Felicity until the "There was no choice to make" scene. 

 

Maybe that's how the media is also seeing them too? There's something there though about how it's usually the "nerdy" character crushing on the "hot/popular" character. 

[Angel12d]

I've noticed that news/media tends to refer to Felicity as love-struck and Oliver is presumed to have friend-zoned Felicity, when Felicity is the one who has never verbalized her feelings for Oliver. I wonder why that is? I'm hoping the premiere clears some of that up...

 

I think it's because Felicity is unashamed to show her attraction for Oliver which a lot of people mistake for her being love-struck. In all honesty I actually don't think Felicity has really allowed herself to admit (to herself) that she's in love with Oliver because she thought he was a) out of her league and b) not interested. As for Oliver friend-zoning her, I never saw that explicitly but sleeping with Isabel and Sara in s2 didn't really help, even though his feelings are clearly more complicated. I guess it just comes down to labels and simplicity and sometimes the media doesn't always report things accurately because often the person reporting hasn't even watched the show. You'd be surprised.

[willpwr]

 

Besides the scene where Laurel was drunk and hit rock bottom (and was a bitch to everyone not just Felicity), she has shown basic decency and politeness to Felicity lol. :)

I think basic decency and politeness is looking at the person that's talking to you and replying to them, not someone else. I also agree with some other posts, it's more telling to me how someone treats those that they consider "just an IT girl" or servers, housekeepers, etc than those in a position of power if I'm taking into consideration basic decency especially if that person prides themselves on being a "good-doer" and helping out those in need.

[wonderwall]

I have a question for you all: What relationships would you like to see be explored in season 3? Also, what new friendships would you like to see happening on the show? 

 

New Friendships/ interactions: 

• More team interactions with Lyla (I hope we see her more often because I would like to understand her character more). 
• Is it wrong that I want Nyssa/Felicity to bond? 
• Quentin interacting with Felicity

 

Further exploration of both platonic and romantic relationships:

• Digg and Felicity's friendship
• Roy's friendship with the team (or maybe lack thereof?)
• Sara/Nyssa
• Oliver's strained relationship with Quentin
• Digg/Lyla

[scarynikki12]

•Is it wrong that I want Nyssa/Felicity to bond?

 

I don't want to live in a world where this is wrong.

[KenyaJ]

Besides the scene where Laurel was drunk and hit rock bottom (and was a bitch to everyone not just Felicity), she has shown basic decency and politeness to Felicity lol. :)

I suppose we just have different notions of basic decency and politeness. With the exception of Laurel being drunk, she has either barely acknowledged or looked like she was annoyed by Felicity's presence. (Look at Laurel's reaction in "Crucible." That was neither polite or decent.)

 

Look, I'm fine with Laurel and Felicity being friendly with each other in Season 3. If they're going to be working together, I'd expect nothing less. But if the writers are going to go for more than that, and try to make them friends, they are going to have to show -- not tell -- me the basis for their friendship. Felicity has always been cordial and solicitous to "Gorgeous Laurel," but it's been a completely one way street. So for them to ever be believable friends, I need at least a passing acknowledgment from one or both of them that their interaction with each other to this point has been neither warm or friendly. And then they can agree to let bygones be bygones.

 

I don't think that's asking for a lot. When Oliver and Sebastian became friendly last season, they had a conversation to clear the air about their previous interaction. I think a similar acknowledgement could help a Felicity/Laurel friendship feel more plausible than an "insta-friendship" based on nothing other than the fact that Laurel is now "in the loop."

[KirkB]

What do you want to bet a lot of the development of their friendship will be in the comics?

[wingster55]

<p>

I have a question for you all: What relationships would you like to see be explored in season 3? Also, what new friendships would you like to see happening on the show?

New Friendships/ interactions:

• More team interactions with Lyla (I hope we see her more often because I would like to understand her character more).
• Is it wrong that I want Nyssa/Felicity to bond?
• Quentin interacting with Felicity

Further exploration of both platonic and romantic relationships:

• Digg and Felicity's friendship
• Roy's friendship with the team (or maybe lack thereof?)
• Sara/Nyssa
• Oliver's strained relationship with Quentin
• Digg/Lyla

Well I'd love Diggle with Oliver and Felicity individually. Maybe him and Quentin too. Thea with everyone.

Would love Malcolm and Sara

Edited September 24, 2014 by wingster55

[statsgirl]

I want Sara, Nyssa and Felicity to have Girls' Night Out up at the bar with Thea.  Laurel can come if she behaves nicely to everyone.

 

I want Lyla to be a presence in the lair (from time to time) like Diggle is.  As an elder brother and sister, mentoring.

 

I want Roy and later Thea to play pranks on everyone when they get too stuffy.  I want Diggle to say to Oliver "See how I felt when you were being a pain?"

 

I wanted Quentin/Felicity scenes but it doesn't make sense any now.  Now that Laurel is on the Team, anything he does will be through her.

I think basic decency and politeness is looking at the person that's talking to you and replying to them, not someone else. I also agree with some other posts, it's more telling to me how someone treats those that they consider "just an IT girl" or servers, housekeepers, etc than those in a position of power if I'm taking into consideration basic decency especially if that person prides themselves on being a "good-doer" and helping out those in need.

This is also where the confluence of writing and acting messes up Laurel if they want us to believe she's a good-doer and cares about the little people. That's why she was working at CNRI, to help the people who don't have money or importance to be treated with dignity and equality.  You can't say that you care about the little people and treat them like they're not there unless they're important to you.  If you care aobut people, you care about all people, even the lowly IT girls who are setting up Oliver's router or his EA who screens his calls.  It's true that in the writing, Laurel never talked to Felicity, only to Oliver as if Felicity wasn't there but that could have been fixed by acting on KC's part.

 

Laurel was snarky to Thea too, but I think telling Oliver to fire Felicity so she could have her job because she didn't have a job at the time (which would mean that now Felicity, who had never done a thing to Laurel,  would be the one without a job), is a whole different level. There needs to be an apology from Laurel to Felicity for that.  Yes, she was drunk but intoxication is no defense when you do something wrong.  Felicity can accept her because she's Oliver's friend and Sara's sister but I will think less of Felicity if she's more without Laurel showing some amends.

Edited September 24, 2014 by statsgirl

[Ceylon5]

I'd really like to see Felicity and Thea getting to know each other (finally).

 

With regards to Laurel & Felicity, a while back in this thread I made a long post quoting & describing all their interactions up to this point and my feelings about that going forward.  I don't really have anything to add to that.

[statsgirl]

I’m not entirely sure what the writers were trying to convey with these Laurel-Felicity interactions, but to me it looked like Laurel had NO time for Felicity; that she actually found her presence distasteful.  So, even given her character inconsistencies, there isn’t exactly a strong foundation for her to now be all sweetness and light towards Felicity (especially after the whole “woman Oliver loves” thing in the finale).  I can’t see them turning around more than a year of her treating Felicity like the nobody she introduced herself as and making them suddenly become friends.  Felicity is too smart for that (or should be, if the writers don’t screw it up).  She started out all sweet and bubbly towards “Gorgeous Laurel”, but quickly caught the vibes and backed off.  I highly doubt Felicity will see any great benefit in being friends with Laurel after all that.  Strained politeness, sure, but actual warmth (from either of them) would be hard to sell at this point.  Which means we should be getting some (more) awkward scenes with these two.  Ditto goes for Laurel and Diggle, given that Diggle is NOT a fan of hers.  Tension in the Arrowcave, coming to screens near you...

Ceylon5, never underestimate the sloppiness of the Arrow writers. (Good points from last July. )

Edited September 25, 2014 by statsgirl

[Ceylon5]

Haha, statsgirl.  Yes, the writers might just take the easy route with the time jump and just expect us to assume that any initial awkwardness has already been dealt with.  But whatever they write, the actresses still have the opportunity to either introduce warmth or strain into any interactions the two have.  It will be interesting to see how they choose to play it...

[apinknightmare]

Laurel was snarky to Thea too, but I think telling Oliver to fire Felicity so she could have her job because she didn't have a job at the time (which would mean that now Felicity, who had never done a thing to Laurel, would be the one without a job), is a whole different level. There needs to be an apology from Laurel to Felicity for that. Yes, she was drunk but intoxication is no defense when you do something wrong. Felicity can accept her because she's Oliver's friend and Sara's sister but I will think less of Felicity if she's more without Laurel showing some amends.

See, I'd think less of Felicity if she held an addict's behavior against her now that she's in recovery. I think we'll just have to assume Laurel made amends as part of her 12 steps. I seriously doubt they'd show any of that on screen, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if they did. Edited September 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I'm fairly uninterested in whether or not Laurel and Felicity get along. Diggle on the other hand should be loads of fun.

[bethy]

It will be interesting to me to see how the relationships play out in the lair now that Laurel is in the mix.  In the last couple of episode of season 2 Laurel was written and played like the person who was always the popular kid but doesn't realize that relationships in the group have shifted and that she no longer plays the role she did before.  Laurel's dialogue and attitude totally came off to me as that person who is assuming she holds the key - to Oliver's being and heart, to the problem they're facing - and, therefore, can be dismissive of the people she thinks are not important to the equation - here, Diggle and Felicity.  She believes she has a certain role in Oliver's life when she doesn't anymore, when in fact she's been replaced.  And I don't mean by Felicity, either; I mean by Team Arrow.  And that's a hard place to be.  I hope that we get to see her deal with that shift in the dynamics. But somehow I doubt we will.

 

I, too, am hoping for some amazing Diggle digs when it comes to Laurel.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, the Digg and Laurel interaction is what I'm looking forward to. I hope it doesn't disappoint.

Edited September 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I've been thinking about

Ray and Felicity potentially getting together and how that relationship would go

. I read this fanfic that brought up 2 problems with Felicity dating outside the foundry (or rather obstacles): the person would have to know she works with the Arrow and be OK with it, and Felicity would have to take more time off from vigilante-ing. Now Diggle has a relationship that he carries on but we already know Felicity spends her time in front of computers in the foundry a lot. (Hmm advice from Diggle on how to date).

Do we have any spoilers that confirm Ray knows Oliver is the vigilante? I somehow remember reading something about

Ray being inspired by the Arrow.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Riful]

 

I have a question for you all: What relationships would you like to see be explored in season 3? Also, what new friendships would you like to see happening on the show?

More Quentin with just about everyone. I think he makes everything better. It is also nice to have an "adult-adult" presence on the show.

Also female friendsips x 100000000000000. Especially any combination involving Felicity, Nyssa and Sara. There is just something about Felicity having a girl pal assassin that tickles me. Would also like to see some Thea/Laurel interaction as I think those two can relate regarding their experiences with Oliver and the whole Green Arrow secret identity mess as a starting point.

 

More Diggle/Felicity and Diggle/Roy (curious to just what sort of friendship/interaction they would have. Don't really recall them interacting just the two of them)

Romantic-wise well just Sara/Nyssa basically. Not really interested in any other romance kicking it up in higher gear at this time.

[Sunshine]

I've been thinking about Ray and Felicity potentially getting together and how that relationship would go. I read this fanfic that brought up 2 problems with Felicity dating outside the foundry (or rather obstacles): the person would have to know she works with the Arrow and be OK with it, and Felicity would have to take more time off from vigilante-ing. Now Diggle has a relationship that he carries on but we already know Felicity spends her time in front of computers in the foundry a lot. (Hmm advice from Diggle on how to date).

Do we have any spoilers that confirm Ray knows Oliver is the vigilante? I somehow remember reading something about Ray being inspired by the Arrow.

I don't think we have anything that says Ray knows Oliver is the vigilante or that she works with him.  I think Felicity/Ray are supposed to have obstacles.  Part of her journey is supposed to be about if she can't be with Oliver can she be with someone else because of the life she is leading. (Sound familiar?)  Advice from Diggle doesn't work.  His significant other knows what he does and is in a similar line of work.   

[Password]

That's why I'm asking because logistically, if she does decide Ray is the better (or maybe safer) option she'd have these things to think about. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself because I assume she will eventually date Ray.

But I was wondering about that tiny, minute (massive) detail.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[statsgirl]

spoiler-tagged because the new season hasn't started yet.

Ray may be inspired by the Arrow, or he may already be inspired by Batman or Superman and already wants to become a vigilante, hence his acquisition of QC's Applied Sciences division to make his suit.  That could be one of the shocks to Oliver when he has to work out if he can be a vigilante and still have a family life, that Ray is already doing both.

 

It will be interesting to me to see how the relationships play out in the lair now that Laurel is in the mix.  In the last couple of episode of season 2 Laurel was written and played like the person who was always the popular kid but doesn't realize that relationships in the group have shifted and that she no longer plays the role she did before.  Laurel's dialogue and attitude totally came off to me as that person who is assuming she holds the key - to Oliver's being and heart, to the problem they're facing - and, therefore, can be dismissive of the people she thinks are not important to the equation - here, Diggle and Felicity.  She believes she has a certain role in Oliver's life when she doesn't anymore, when in fact she's been replaced.  And I don't mean by Felicity, either; I mean by Team Arrow.  And that's a hard place to be.  I hope that we get to see her deal with that shift in the dynamics. But somehow I doubt we will.

 

I, too, am hoping for some amazing Diggle digs when it comes to Laurel.

That is something that I would really like to see, Laurel navigating her place on the Team rather than accepting it by divine right.  I think it would help me like Laurel more too.

 

Unfortunately, I can't see Diggle making digs.  The man is a gentleman and if she were having trouble adjusting, he would probably try to help her rather than snark at her.  I'm putting my money on Roy is anyone.  (Keeping in mind that they want us to love Laurel so no snarking in place of the audience.)

[NumberCruncher]

spoiler-tagged because the new season hasn't started yet.

Ray may be inspired by the Arrow, or he may already be inspired by Batman or Superman and already wants to become a vigilante, hence his acquisition of QC's Applied Sciences division to make his suit.  That could be one of the shocks to Oliver when he has to work out if he can be a vigilante and still have a family life, that Ray is already doing both.

I really like this theory. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it plays out onscreen. I also think that it will be a shock to Felicity when

she finds out Ray isn't the "normal" relationship she was looking for and that he's a secret vigilante too.

[Password]

spoiler-tagged because the new season hasn't started yet.

Ray may be inspired by the Arrow, or he may already be inspired by Batman or Superman and already wants to become a vigilante, hence his acquisition of QC's Applied Sciences division to make his suit.  That could be one of the shocks to Oliver when he has to work out if he can be a vigilante and still have a family life, that Ray is already doing both.

 

That's actually how I thought it would play out before speculation about

Ted Kord became Ray Palmer. I keep forgetting Ray actually wants QC for the Applied Sciences division.

Thank you for reminding me with your logic @statsgirl

[blixie]

 

Do we have any spoilers that confirm Ray knows Oliver is the vigilante?

No, but I'm pretty certain that he will either figure it out for himself, or will be brought on board Team Arrow

to leverage the tech he's developing at QC in any fight against Ra's al Ghul.

We DO have spoiler to the effect 

that Brandon Routh has seen mockups of The Atom suit, so I'd think we're going to see him acquire his powers, or at least use the tech. The idea that he doesn't know or won't find out seems ridiculous.

 

My speculation has been that Felicity is partly working with Ray to keep on eye on him at QC for Oliver, and that like wise Ray is investigating her, Oliver, and possibly Team Arrow. So no I don't think a lack of knowing what she does is going to be any obstacle for Ray/Felicity, but I do think it will work as inspiration for Oliver to step up to the microphone already, and stop using his lame (if understandable) life I lead line.

[HighHopes]

Wrong thread! 

Edited September 24, 2014 by HighHopes

[KenyaJ]

I really like this theory. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it plays out onscreen. I also think that it will be a shock to Felicity when

she finds out Ray isn't the "normal" relationship she was looking for and that he's a secret vigilante too.

 

Is she looking for

a normal relationship,

though? After all, she wants to be with Oliver, and she knows there would never be anything

normal

about that relationship.

[icandigit]

I desperately need some resolution of  Thea/Oliver. They need each other. Its killing me. I'm actually curious about Ray/Oliver and where they end up by the end of the season. I think Thea/Felicity would be interesting. Spoilers have me excited for Roy/Felicity, can't wait to see how that plays out. Also, Oliver/Salmon Ladder/Sara love triangle.

[TanyaKay]

Spoilers have me excited for Roy/Felicity, can't wait to see how that plays out. Also, Oliver/Salmon Ladder/Sara love triangle.

 

Listen, women will come and go but Sally - the salmon ladder is Oliver's one true love. I think the show has established that beyond any doubt.

[wingster55]

But is Oliver the salmon ladder's true love? Maybe it's Sara.