S05.E03: The Midges

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, ptuscadero said:

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Wheat eater bug.

At first, I honestly thought he said, "They eat weeds," and I thought, well, that's not so bad after all!   hashtagdolt 

Same here. They eat weeds; what's the big fuss? D'oh!

9 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Loved the little human touches throughout this episode, especially Philip checking on their lookout.

I was a little nervous that he was going to kill her.

44 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Who is the Russian that Stan questioned in the restroom and diner last night?  Is that Alexei or a comrade?

A Russian working in America whom they want to turn into an informer. As was the Aeroflot guy. We're seeing day-to-day drudge work of the FBI. I loved Stan's joke about their bad suits.

[Bannon]

36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

OLD FLAME! (link below)  It was one of my favorite songs back in the day when I didn't even like country music.  It's a real classic.  That scene of of P & E standing there together.....probably my favorite of the series so far. I think those disguises are my favorite too. 

Martha overshadowed everything for me, (OH WHAT JOY!).  She may be frustrated with low inventory in the market, but, it's better than the alternative, imo. I hope we'll get the chance to see if relocating was REALLY worth it. 

IMO,  P &E are limited in their options  to avoid killing someone who walks in on their missions.  Because, even if the person can't identify them or give a description, JUST THE REPORT THAT THERE WAS A BREAK-IN is unacceptable. They don't want to tip their hand. Still.....man, that was brutal.  I know he was a goner as soon as he started that call.  

I have a few questions.  I'd be interested on your take on it.

1. Philip said that Paige can't handle ANY of this.  (Spy drama, I suppose.)  So, in the next sentence he proposes that they give her MORE stuff to deal with.  WHAT?  

2. I thought that Alexei shared part of his pain from childhood with P & E about his father's imprisonment and treatment.  It seemed to go right over their heads. I noticed they didn't share this story with Tuan.  This man sure is very vocal with his anti-Russian sentiments.  Wouldn't you think that he'd be a little afraid of that? If Russia is that horrible, wouldn't they send people to address him? Is he that naive?  

3. Who is the Russian that Stan questioned in the restroom and diner last night?  Is that Alexei or a comrade? They resemble, imo.  I can't find anything written about it today.   Who was in the car last week that went on the FBI escorted drive to the greenhouse?  

 

I believe that P was being sarcastic, and the meaning of his statement wasvalong the lines of, "Our daughter is not going to be able to deal with the fact that we kill people like a travel agent books hotel rooms.". I also think that Alexei is written a little too over the top with the openess of his anti-Soviet sentiment, and the purpose of that will be the surprise delivered when it is revealed that his work is not for the purpose of harming Soviet agriculture, possibly after he has been killed,maybe by Tuan. I don't think that is especially good writing, so I hope I'm wrong.

I think the Russian Stan is surveilling and trying to pressure is an Aeroflot employee who they think can be useful to the FBI for some reason. I might be wrong about this

[ChromaKelly]

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was never on board with them fessing up to Paige, but, since they did it, their options to contain her now seem limited.  I don't get why they insist on giving her MORE intel when they are convinced that she's already overloaded, but, I do get why Elizabeth was trying to inspire her to keep some things private.  Her survival depends on it. Even  if P & E are the only ones who are arrested or killed, what does the future offer for her and Henry? Paige's insistence on secrets, noisy habits and whining that she had to know the truth haven't served her well.  It's unfortunate. 

I took P&E telling her about it as they are trying to show her that what they do is for the good of the world. The US is trying to starve the Russians, and we're the only ones who can stop it. So keep rubbing your fingers and lying to your boyfriend's face.

[chick binewski]

9 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Stan and his partner approaching those two Russians was typical of this episode. They wanted to talk to two people but those people just walked away. That was not very interesting or very good TV. It reminded me of what happened to Gaad. I wish they would have provided some details to help the viewers feel like they were a part of things.

Same goes for the Henry mystery. Couldn't they have provided some kind of detail more than just the usual, "Is Henry home?". "No, Henry's not home."

Killing that research scientist doen'st really count as "something happening". I'm sorry. But the more I think about it, the less interesting this episode seems to have been. I would have been so much happier if they would have just fed us a few details. Like Mischa. That was pretty stupid for him to just take out all his money and hand it to that guy. We never found out what the result would be.

This episode left me feeling frustrated. I would have really liked some more plot detail.

I'm re-watching the entire series so I'm reminded there have often been moments where I'm all "what exactly is going on here?" But there were so many other moving parts large & small (the Rezidentura, Clark's marriage, the Jennings' suspicion of Claudia, Stan the neighbor/crap husband) that I didn't spend much time scratching my head waiting for some things to reveal themselves. I appreciate the show for not spoon-feeding us but the bugs that may-or-may not be a threat isn't really cutting it this season. 

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I really feel like Elizabeth was 'working' Philip sexually in the cowboy hat scene, or at least she may be.

I would love it if this show ends up being, not some stupid Paige-ending because she exposes them, but comes right back down to the marriage.  It's pretty obvious Philip, in spite of some reservations, would be done with this KGB gig if not for his love of Elizabeth.  At what point to you choose what your gut tells you over your marriage, or your true love?  I do believe Philip loves her, and I also believe the only reason he's still doing this is because of that love.  What about his kids though, and his love for them?  What about his soul, which is taking a beating for something he usually no longer believes in?

 

10 hours ago, willco said:

I've often wondered why Elizabeth fights so hard to defend Russia. I know that's her home country and all, but is it so terrible here in the U.S. ? Life is pretty nice compared to what she grew up with. Maybe they explained this sometime in the past, but I don't remember.

 

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So far he's choosing Elizabeth, but if they killed that scientist for nothing, he may finally wake up.  He has doubts in that hotel room, and she pulls out the sex, as she's trained to do.  That seemed pretty deliberate to me, it's what she'd do with a source that was having doubts.  Philip is smart enough to get that. 

I think Elizabeth is fanatic enough to sacrifice her kids, she might not like it, but she'd do it.  She's already put Paige in danger, and ruined her life.  Why?  For the glorious CAUSE, and because she CHOSE to do that, rather than give up the KGB.

Everyone has a breaking point, and Philip has been near that since the first episode.

 

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Elizabeth is a true believer.  Much like the Pastor.  Some people are just born that way.  In addition to that, she was heavily shielded from realities, and heavily indoctrinated in "the cause" from a young age.  Her dad was a deserter, and she would never want to be a deserter like him. 

I have always found Elizabeth's point of view to be the most maddening part of this show. If her unwavering devotion to her country is due to her being a forever true believer as @Umbelina stated, I'm not sure how the show could do it but I'd love to see it addressed in some sort of way where we could understand it better. She's been raising her children in a home with all amenities and no shortage of food, education or money. How would she feel transporting them to a place where anything they were given was only due to who their parents were? Those pointing to Elizabeth being a sociopath are most likely hitting the nail on the head. She's all pearl-clutchy about Alexei spiriting his family away from a life he viewed as unsustainable without their consent yet she's willing to manipulate her daughter into a life of lies, sex work, possible imprisonment and torture. OK.

From the start I have always thought the show was moving in the direction of Philip taking out Elizabeth, whether it be to save his children or to some alliance with the US (or both). But Philip's more frequent willingness to kill and his own manipulation of Paige make me wonder.  

I am still completely befuddled by The Technique. This can't actually be a thing, can it? And I watched the 2nd airing of last night's episode and made the mistake of tuning in 30 SECONDS TOO EARLY so I saw Allison Wright's credit at the end. So annoyed I was spoiled. But I did love seeing her and wouldn't mind seeing her be part of a storyline if they can do something new.       

[SunnyBeBe]

Thanks for clearing some things up.  I find the various characters involved with the Russian food issue a little scattered. 

I do feel for Oleg.  Man, he's royally screwed at this point.  I'm not sure what options he may have.  None really.  IT's going to end poorly for him, but, that's what I said about Martha when Philip laid the cards out for her.  Can Oleg survive a transfer to the US like Martha did the USSR?  Hmmmmmm.....Will he use what he  knows about Stan to defend himself? For a moment I thought how funny it would be if Oleg and Martha met and started dating......No, that would be too silly, right?

Has the FBI stopped searching for Martha?

Edited March 22, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I took P&E telling her about it as they are trying to show her that what they do is for the good of the world. The US is trying to starve the Russians, and we're the only ones who can stop it. So keep rubbing your fingers and lying to your boyfriend's face.

Yeah, plus, in a larger sense, no one truly knows everything about us.  No matter how close you are, you always have your own personal self. Even your soul mate can't know every single thing about you.  Well, that's just me.  Maybe, I"m weird. lol

[teddysmom]

Quote

Now, if, as I fear, they want to get really angsty, they'll reveal to E & P, who have suddenly become stupid, that the whole midge-a-palooza was research into pest control, so the latest sap was murdered for no reason. It'll actually be better to stick with the conceit that American agriweapons research is secured by $4 locks purchased at Ace Hardware, so I guess that's the best that can be hoped for at this point.

I've had a feeling all along that it would end up this is a false flag.  Russia is starving its people it doesn't need any help from the US. Plus once Russia figured out the wheat was bad it would stop buying from the US, which was the whole reason Reagan overturned the grain embargo Carter put into place. 

I think at least Phillip is really starting to wonder what they're fighting for.  More than ever. "We have all this land, why aren't we growing wheat?" 

Quote

"I just meant he's a traitor." HA HA WELL WHO ISN'T HASHTAG 2017 RIGHT

Thank you Tara! lol

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Same goes for the Henry mystery. Couldn't they have provided some kind of detail more than just the usual, "Is Henry home?". "No, Henry's not home."

 

I think it's a clever way to seed what's obviously coming--the realization that Henry's developed a secret life where he's doing something and nobody would have guessed it. He's old enough to be out by himself, but unlike Paige he doesn't make it a central family issue where he's now spending his time. Again unlike Paige, he naturally understands that people don't tell each other everything.

7 hours ago, jjj said:

How much time has elapsed since she left the States?  A few months?  I forget if there had been a time jump last season. 

Yup, 7 month time jump after Martha left. So she's been there for months.

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Mathew is less interested in doing "something" which is kinda disheartening to Paige and might actually be what draws her closer to her parents the idea that they are actually doing something.

Yeah, I thought that was a nice touch. Because my first thought was even that Paige would be a way to recruit him! If the reveal hadn't happened Paige would no doubt have responded to him by lecturing him about all the good work her church group does to change things.

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

I thought that too, that E was working P. He starts questioning the Soviet Union and why can't we feed our own people, so E breaks out the cowboy ha

I think it's more that sometimes in regular human interaction between couples somebody will do that. Yes, it's a bit like "working" the other person, but it's not like Philip is some guy who's going to be distracted by it and can't think and have sex at the same time. He knew what she was doing, didn't have an answer to the question he was asking, so chose to slow dance and get romantic. Doesn't mean it's not going to come up later, but they both know that Philip is going to think about this stuff and Elizabeth's just going to trust that the Centre knows best.

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

 

I am questioning what Tuan is really up to. He at first spouts off how the US is going to destroy the Soviet Union and thinks Alexei is a traitor. Then he's critical of Pasha for being a whiny baby and not appreciating the food he has. S

 

I don't think that means he's up to anything. He's disgusted by just about everybody not like himself. Alexei is a traitor to his country (unlike Tuan) and Pasha doesn't appreciate having food to eat (unlike Tuan). Also I think he's been consistent about his judgments of both guys: Alexei is a traitor and Pasha is a weak baby. Neither thing does Tuan like.

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was never on board with them fessing up to Paige, but, since they did it, their options to contain her now seem limited.  I don't get why they insist on giving her MORE intel when they are convinced that she's already overloaded, but, I do get why Elizabeth was trying to inspire her to keep some things private.

Well, in this case they tried to frame it at least as a distraction. If they give her the general idea that they're trying to protect innocent people, that puts her wanting to be with Matthew in context. Since apparently she can't keep the danger in her head. Left on her own her mind always reverts back to the pov of a safe American teenager who can't really believe things would change that much. It's like when last season she confronted her parents over Mrs. Tim's very real threat with the tape by acting like her parents were just being absurd to suggest that anybody would speak Russian. Like she thinks if this happened she could just complain to the right person and they'd see that Paige would need to stay in the US and speak English, and her parents would therefore have to stay with her or something.

Btw, I'm also interested to see where Philip's dad is going to come in. Like, his saying that his dad died was a response to Tuan also not having a father, but then he focused on being hungry before his father's death, as if there was some connection in his mind there.

10 hours ago, shura said:

I just couldn't understand why they and the whole room were covered in dirt. People did clean up in the Soviet Union, communal apartment or not.

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Speaking of which, that had to be deliberate. We've seen flashbacks to Elizabeth's past and it looks nothing like that. This wasn't just a case of somebody thinking that not having money=dirt. And we only saw a flash of his past--they've been hiding Philip's and often give us just images with no dialogue, as opposed to Elizabeth's flashbacks. There's a reason for it.

2 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

Those pointing to Elizabeth being a sociopath are most likely hitting the nail on the head. She's all pearl-clutchy about Alexei spiriting his family away from a life he viewed as unsustainable without their consent yet she's willing to manipulate her daughter into a life of lies, sex work, possible imprisonment and torture. OK.

I don't see why this has to be down to Elizabeth having a mental condition where she can't empathize. She can empathize--we've seen it. She's just also had a life where she was raised to fear being traitor above everything, and to long to suffer for a good cause. People are hypocritical about this kind of thing all the time. She thinks Paige will be shielded from the worst parts of her job, and given the life she has she rightly sees Paige as having the life of a princess compared to the one she had, so she's not going to see herself as being so terrible to her by making her tougher and giving her some serious responsibilities.

Which is also why Philip sees it's necessary to manipulate Paige. Being nice to her in the short term can lead to her blowing everything up in ways Paige herself also will not like. I think the shades of difference in the way the two of them see Paige is maybe that Elizabeth hopes that Paige can be molded into being like herself, but Philip sees her as kind of a wash. Like he thinks she's smart and wonderful and all that, but fundamentally soft. This is a guy who murdered at least one person at 10 years old. No matter how much he enjoys the perks in the US he still sees the world as a dangerous place. I think he thinks he can count on Elizabeth to take care of herself and trusts her to also take care of the kids just like he would.

1 minute ago, teddysmom said:

I think at least Phillip is really starting to wonder what they're fighting for.  More than ever. "We have all this land, why aren't we growing wheat?" 

Quote

Yeah, I think he's getting that sometimes the problems are coming from inside the house and the outside villain is just a convenient scapegoat to get everybody against so they don't look at the real problems. 

[operalover]

Can someone explain why the FBI is watching Tuan? They were talking about a schedule of cars. They know he is a spy?

Also would Australia be allowed to export midges to the USA? I thought shipping any kind of bug was to another country was specifically prohibited by treaties. Which is why you can't bring fruit from another country into a different country.  It wasn't snuck in either because they found a customs record of it.

Edited March 22, 2017 by operalover

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's a clever way to seed what's obviously coming--the realization that Henry's developed a secret life where he's doing something and nobody would have guessed it. He's old enough to be out by himself, but unlike Paige he doesn't make it a central family issue where he's now spending his time. Again unlike Paige, he naturally understands that people don't tell each other everything.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the big reveal will be that Henry has become a staunch Reagan Republican, under the influence of his slightly older high school buddy, Alex P. Keaton. It will be the first episode of The Americans to feature  a laugh track.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, GussieK said:

Interesting that most places didn't have as many security cameras back then as we do now.  If so, that body could not have disappeared unobserved.  So this guy will disappear with no one realizing where he went at first.

Didn't they leave him in the trunk of his car which they left in the parking lot outside the lab?  Or was that their car?  

10 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see why this has to be down to Elizabeth having a mental condition where she can't empathize. She can empathize--we've seen it.

Yeah, I don't think Elizabeth is a sociopath either.  I think she believes in a cause and she believes the ends justify the means.  So if they kill a lab director so they can try to save millions of their countrymen from starving, it's worth it to her.  Plus she told him that he "should have asked," which means she thinks he was doing something immoral and closing his eyes to it.  Not that I agree with Elizabeth, just trying to see it through her eyes.

Just now, operalover said:

Can someone explain why the FBI is watching Tuan? They were talking about a schedule of cars. They know he is a spy?

Tuan was talking about the FBI watching the Russian family next door.

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, operalover said:

Can someone explain why the FBI is watching Tuan? They were talking about a schedule of cars. They know he is a spy?

Also would Australia be allowed to export midges to the USA? I thought shipping any kind of bug was to another country was specifically prohibited by treaties. Which is why you can't bring fruit from another country into a different country.  It wasn't snuck in either because they found a customs record of it.

Presumably, for research purposes, there are exceptions, but it is problematic that a pest with such economically devastating potential would not be handled any more carefully than what was shown last week at the greenhouse, or even this week at the office. Hell, just a typical Illinois thunderstorm means the entire American wheat industry suffers massive losses. The writing is just sloppy.

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think the big reveal will be that Henry has become a staunch Reagan Republican, under the influence of his slightly older high school buddy, Alex P. Keaton. It will be the first episode of The Americans to feature  a laugh track.

He''ll be cheering him on when he plays chess against the Russian champion!

[shura]

9 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I think the big reveal will be that Henry has become a staunch Reagan Republican, under the influence of his slightly older high school buddy, Alex P. Keaton. It will be the first episode of The Americans to feature  a laugh track.

That would explain why Henry is nowhere to be seen - he's in Cleveland!

[ChromaKelly]

6 minutes ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

I mean this in the nicest, most loving way possible, but you are one sick pup Umbelina! ;)

Nah, I'm with her. It's like the Gendry and Mellisandre scene from Game of Thrones. I may have rewatched that a few times.

[chick binewski]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's a clever way to seed what's obviously coming--the realization that Henry's developed a secret life where he's doing something and nobody would have guessed it. He's old enough to be out by himself, but unlike Paige he doesn't make it a central family issue where he's now spending his time. Again unlike Paige, he naturally understands that people don't tell each other everything.

**

Btw, I'm also interested to see where Philip's dad is going to come in. Like, his saying that his dad died was a response to Tuan also not having a father, but then he focused on being hungry before his father's death, as if there was some connection in his mind there.

Speaking of which, that had to be deliberate. We've seen flashbacks to Elizabeth's past and it looks nothing like that. This wasn't just a case of somebody thinking that not having money=dirt. And we only saw a flash of his past--they've been hiding Philip's and often give us just images with no dialogue, as opposed to Elizabeth's flashbacks. There's a reason for it. 

I'm hoping this is what the're planning for Henry and not a Homeland younger-son situation where they just decide the actor isn't up to it or the story gets abandoned. I also agree about Philip's upbringing flashbacks being particularly specific. Elizabeth's home was small and dark, but there was wallpaper and her hair was combed. Philip's family was a whole other level of poverty with no interaction (except pointing out loose pants to mom?) 

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see why this has to be down to Elizabeth having a mental condition where she can't empathize. She can empathize--we've seen it. She's just also had a life where she was raised to fear being traitor above everything, and to long to suffer for a good cause. People are hypocritical about this kind of thing all the time. She thinks Paige will be shielded from the worst parts of her job, and given the life she has she rightly sees Paige as having the life of a princess compared to the one she had, so she's not going to see herself as being so terrible to her by making her tougher and giving her some serious responsibilities.

For me it's very difficult to understand Elizabeth. She only lived in the USSR as a regular citizen until she was a teenager. Part of her introduction to spy life was being raped and the Centre allowing it. She's lived in the US for all of her adult life and nothing has turned her head? I'd like to see it explored why her faith in her country hasn't eroded. Regarding Paige, I believe my view of Elizabeth as a mother changed drastically during the last half of season 4. Elizabeth dropped a few bombs and sent a few looks Paige's way that made me think she'd totally take her out if the situation called for it.

I do question if Philip is always aware when Elizabeth is manipulating him. That may be due in part to the actors' chemistry - it's hard to imagine their connection isn't real. But Elizabeth kept Philip at arms length throughout their marriage and only let him in after he started his relationship with Martha; she continually pushed his buttons regarding that situation even after Martha got on the plane. I'm interested in seeing what's in store for them during the final season.

Edited March 22, 2017 by chick binewski
It's loose not lose! Going to hang head in shame for remainder of day.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I do question if Philip is always aware when Elizabeth is manipulating him. That may be due in part to the actors' chemistry - it's hard to imagine their connection isn't real. But Elizabeth kept Philip at arms length throughout their marriage and only let him in after he started his relationship with Martha; she continually pushed his buttons regarding that situation even after Martha got on the plane. I'm interested in seeing what's in store for them during the final season.

I think she started letting him in in the Pilot (when he showed how much he cared about her), and then got so scared about her own vulnerability she shut down at the first possibility. I don't think she's pushing his buttons about Martha--she's genuinely vulnerable on that issue. She fears that Martha gives him something she doesn't and fears that means he loves her more. I think of the two Elizabeth's actually more vulnerable emotionally. I mean, Philip is all-in, ride-or-die with Elizabeth and might get killed because of it, but I think she's the more insecure. He learned over all those years that his love is about him loving her, not necessarily her loving him back. That's just a bonus. 

 

4 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

I also agree about Philip's upbringing flashbacks being particularly specific. Elizabeth's home was small and dark, but there was wallpaper and her hair was combed. Philip's family was a whole other level of poverty with no interaction (except pointing out lose pants to mom?) 

Yeah, and the whole focus on his father. Through the series Philip almost never said anything about his past. The few times he said something--and in both case he almost blurted them out--was the story about the bullies (which he started to tell Elizabeth in s2 and got cut off) and scolding Paige by telling her his father died when he was six. And when he remembers not having food instead of thinking of his Mom making her onion soup at any point in his childhood he remembers a point when his dad was alive. And remember when Paige asked him about his childhood and what his father did he also hinted at something, saying that his dad worked hard and when he came home he was...tired.

Seems like they're circling something there.

Also, I've noticed that Elizabeth's pre-Philip flashbacks are always whole scenes with dialogue and a clear meaning. Philip rarely has flashbacks, but the ones he does have come in flashes with no dialogue. The bullies in the tunnel were presented that way (they taunted him but there's no dialogue other than that), the sex-training flashback was like that, and now this was just a flash to a moment whose meaning was unclear.

It seems like it supports the idea that Philip's childhood is more repressed, unlike Elizabeth's.

[Auntie Anxiety]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

I have always found Elizabeth's point of view to be the most maddening part of this show. If her unwavering devotion to her country is due to her being a forever true believer as @Umbelina stated, I'm not sure how the show could do it but I'd love to see it addressed in some sort of way where we could understand it better.

After what Elizabeth had to endure in order to become a top-shelf spy, it's hard to imagine that she could easily turn her back on the USSR. If she did, it would mean that her whole life up to this point has been a waste. The sexual assaults, the training to become unfeeling, the murders that she committed....then waking up one morning and saying "WTF? Why am I doing this? Russia sucks and the US is so much better," would be tantamount to her accepting that she threw her life away for what?

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think she started letting him in in the Pilot (when he showed how much he cared about her), and then got so scared about her own vulnerability she shut down at the first possibility. I don't think she's pushing his buttons about Martha--she's genuinely vulnerable on that issue. She fears that Martha gives him something she doesn't and fears that means he loves her more. I think of the two Elizabeth's actually more vulnerable emotionally. I mean, Philip is all-in, ride-or-die with Elizabeth and might get killed because of it, but I think she's the more insecure. He learned over all those years that his love is about him loving her, not necessarily her loving him back. That's just a bonus. 

 

Yeah, and the whole focus on his father. Through the series Philip almost never said anything about his past. The few times he said something--and in both case he almost blurted them out--was the story about the bullies (which he started to tell Elizabeth in s2 and got cut off) and scolding Paige by telling her his father died when he was six. And when he remembers not having food instead of thinking of his Mom making her onion soup at any point in his childhood he remembers a point when his dad was alive. And remember when Paige asked him about his childhood and what his father did he also hinted at something, saying that his dad worked hard and when he came home he was...tired.

Seems like they're circling something there.

Also, I've noticed that Elizabeth's pre-Philip flashbacks are always whole scenes with dialogue and a clear meaning. Philip rarely has flashbacks, but the ones he does have come in flashes with no dialogue. The bullies in the tunnel were presented that way (they taunted him but there's no dialogue other than that), the sex-training flashback was like that, and now this was just a flash to a moment whose meaning was unclear.

It seems like it supports the idea that Philip's childhood is more repressed, unlike Elizabeth's.

There may be something to this, but Phillip is just about a decade too  young to have seen the worst of it, when Stalin reduced middle class farmers to eating the corpses of their children. I can't remember; where's P from?

[jjj]

3 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Phillip hated that the scientist didn't know who he was working for so that made him have to kill him. If he knew, maybe he could have stayed alive and become a source.

Oh, that scientist was a goner from the minute he saw E/Ph -- they just kept him alive long enough to get whatever information he had.  He had seen their faces, and it was like the episode when Elizabeth sat with the old woman and told her life story.  We knew that the woman would never get out alive (took a medication overdose). 

I was not surprised that the scientist noticed the moths were going crazy from Elizabeth's flashlight.  But what was the point of calling someone in the middle of the night?  "Moths be crazy"?  I'd expect him to make a note of it in a notebook and to keep watching them. 

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

There may be something to this, but Phillip is just about a decade too  young to have seen the worst of it, when Stalin reduced middle class farmers to eating the corpses of their children. I can't remember; where's P from?

Philip is from Tobolsk in Siberia. He said his father was a logger, fwiw.

There was another kid in that scene--not sure if it was a communal space or a kid he was related to. Until we know better I'll just assume they ate him. :-)

Also it seems significant that they had Philip's father *not* die in the war--but die not long afterwards.

Edited March 22, 2017 by sistermagpie

[gwhh]

17 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Could someone explain the elite special shops? How did they knew who to let in and who to keep out? Were there special cards? How did this system work? 

. 

A special shop was for "elite" of the soviet union.  They were only open to people who was running the show over there or  in rare cases did something real great for the motherland.  You had very special cards to even get into the general area they were located in.  And you needed special cards to get inside and shop there!

They were well hidden from the average soviet citizen and was totally off limits to the average soviet citizens.  There was different types of them.  The higher your rank in the party the better class of store you got to shop at. 

In the soviet union the "nomenklatura" class of professional government bureaucrat (something like 62 different ranks and corresponding privileges for them)  for a lack of a better term.  At this time.  There was about 2 million of them run the soviet union.  They run the soviet union for there fellow nomenklatura and ran the soviet union to make there fellow nomenklatura lives better.  Everyone else got what ever was left over!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura

Edited March 22, 2017 by gwhh

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

3:05 there is a girl who could have doubled for a young Elizabeth!

She is a dead ringer for a young Elizabeth! 

6 hours ago, Trillian said:

You're not the only one. I got a kick out of seeing Martha - and yelled like everyone else - but I'd be quite happy if that was the last glimpse of her.

I agree. It's great to see that she's alive and have some idea of what kind of life she's leading. If they show her again and give us more details, I would be okay with that. I would be equally satisfied if this is the last time we see her. 

2 hours ago, shura said:

Which reminds me, what exactly was Oleg trying to get out of that store manager? Learn who brought the goods? Normally, they would be delivered absolutely legally, it's just that most of them would never find their way on the store shelves. And if anyone asked, the store could always claim that it sold out quickly.

My understanding is that Oleg was trying to find out who her supplier was. He thought she was bribing someone to get the best quality/rare food. He wasn't interested in what she was doing. He was after the bigger fish, the person accepting the bribe. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by Sarah 103

[scartact]

Late to the party these days (working on a new schedule these days!), but I didn't think I would be so glad to see Martha! What I also find interesting about including Martha in the USSR is that I think it actually really humanizes this entire midges/grain plot. Martha is someone we've already invested in as a character for three and a half seasons. Martha is the most human face we have to how the food crisis affects everyday civilians. And that's also on top of all that baggage we have from last season. I'm a little more ambivalent of whether or not I would like for the show to keep following her around, but I'm willing to roll with whatever happens.

Another thing that stood out to me was after Paige's date, when she was let into the laundry room! Have we ever seen Paige in the laundry room in that context? I'm sure we have like once or twice, especially in season 2 when Elizabeth came home post-recovery, but it was an interesting shift from Paige at the end of season 1 contemplating the laundry room to now being part of clandestine conversations there.

Anyway, I really found that conversation between her and Elizabeth interesting and it made me wonder too about how much Nadezhda  struggled (or not) with learning to lie before becoming Elizabeth. To me this comes back to Paige as a mirror of who Elizabeth was as a young teen. Elizabeth telling Paige that you don't share everything in relationships and you hold back what you need to circles back to a core theme within The Americans about artifice and reality. This conversation actually contextualized the later scene with Philip and Elizabeth in the hotel room for me, which in itself is another echo of one of the primary tensions between Phil and Liz. Philip continues to have doubts and ask questions that Elizabeth has no answers to, but they connect back to their love to one another. While I can see and agree that Elizabeth uses sex to bring Philip back, I'm also reminded of her tactic in Clark's Place and how she uses physical intimacy to comfort Philip. I'm probably more willing than others to see the genuineness of their connection as it's couched in all these different complications.

Speaking of mirrors, Tuan as a mirror to Philip in their respective experiences with poverty and hunger, leading us to another flashback of Philip's past was interesting. I get the sense that Tuan is overall more anti-US than he is actually pro-USSR. I'm curious to see how as Philip continues to bond with one "son," what happens to the other one? Am patiently waiting to see if anything comes to fruition with Henry. And also, Mischa is still a ticking time bomb of a person. I have no real thoughts about him, other than just waiting to see what happens.

Edited March 22, 2017 by scartact
forgot about Mischa

[Eulipian 5k]

13 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

The female food store manager looked familiar. Was she Tony Sopranos Russian (one legged) girlfriend?

Thank you!. I kept asking "Where would I have seen someone speaking Russian?". That's a loong ways back.

 I keep giving the writers some slack because, do we really need to see a scene where PhiLiz and Paige have to stop talking with "shhh, Henry's here" ? That would only rob us of the conversation they need to have. They should get him a subscription to Playboy and he'll be "in his "room" all the time.

[SunnyBeBe]

While I'm a P & E fan, I was turned off by their hypocritical reaction to how and why Alexei left Russia.  They think what he did was so awful....really?  Too funny.  And the way they ignored his hard time story.  I suppose they think theirs is worse. Maybe so.   I guess I have to keep in mind that P & E were fed what the government wanted them to know as young people.  They have so much of that dogma hardwired into their system.  

I must be in the minority, but,  I really don't miss Henry and would be perfectly satisfied with the explanation that he's just not home.  No interest in him at all at this point.  As long as he's safe and sound. The less he knows the better. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

 

I just think it has to be a one and done with Martha, just so people know she is still alive.

Me too, but that was such a tease!  Martha was one of my favorites.

13 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

The female food store manager looked familiar. Was she Tony Sopranos Russian (one legged) girlfriend?

Yes, I noticed that too!  I kept thinking about how Janice stole her leg and put it in a storage locker.

[PinkRibbons]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 This man sure is very vocal with his anti-Russian sentiments.  Wouldn't you think that he'd be a little afraid of that? If Russia is that horrible, wouldn't they send people to address him? Is he that naive? 

The Russians wouldn't dare risk doing anything about it in the US and he probably knows it. If they killed everyone who ever came out of Russia screaming to the world how much they hated that country, it would be one of the greatest massacres ever committed on American soil.

3 hours ago, shura said:

He said he was OBKhSS, which Wikipedia translates beautifully as Department Against Misappropriation of Socialist Property. They weren't KGB, she wouldn't be scared of that. She might have been scared of going to jail for what she was actually doing, but apparently not enough to resist offering him a little bribe.

It doesn't matter what he calls himself, she knows who he reports to. Anyone, and I mean anyone from the government had ties to the KGB. Anyone doing investigating was definitely tied to the KGB. She offered him a bribe because it was literally the only thing she knew how to do in this kind of situation, and it probably worked for her before with anyone else who tried asking questions.

(Incidentally the tangerines in this reminds me a of a story I was once told that leaked around the country; apparently a bunch of employees in a factory were once pulled from work to spend a few days with a shipment of oranges, pulling off the stickers that said they came from Israel.)

As to the elite stores, you had a special kind of money, I guess like a voucher. That's how they knew you could shop there.

[One Imaginary Girl]

I never was one of those people who needed to see Martha's life after she left, but I did like her, so I thought, "Живa.  Онa живa" with a little relief.  Glad to see a little fan service by the producers.

[PinkRibbons]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

I also think that Alexei is written a little too over the top with the openess of his anti-Soviet sentiment

Lol, no. I'm fairly certain the writers are quoting someone they've met, Alexei is so familiar. If anything he's toned down because he doesn't use much profanity. My sister texted me while watching the first episode, "this guy really sounds like Papa". Papa's been here thirty years and he still won't forgive the Soviet Union. Granted it's no longer the first thing on his mind all the time, but even now, get him started on Russia and he explodes in three different languages, including some pretty serious Yiddish hexes on the country. My mother is scarier, she gets this hard look in her eye like she'd like to go back there on a killing spree but there's ironing to be done at home first, and that takes precedence.

The love of the US in comparison isn't hyperbolic either. One of my favorite memories is from when I was eleven -- my parents had finally saved up enough and bought a house. The yard was completely bare and dead and it took us years to get anything to grow. In our first month living there, one day Papa took a shovel and started turning over the earth on one side of the house while I followed along, picking up earthworms. It was hard work and he was almost 50, but he absolutely loved it and spent the whole time talking about how he was working his own land, for himself, with no one forcing him to do the work and him never seeing the result. (Making students and other young people do work like this was a rite of passage. An awful, dirty, painful, thankless rite of passage.)

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, PinkRibbons said:

Lol, no. I'm fairly certain the writers are quoting someone they've met, Alexei is so familiar. If anything he's toned down because he doesn't use much profanity

Another person said she laughed out loud listening to him because he sounded so much like her father. And, endearingly imo, she felt that some of her father's OTT anger was covering up a little insecurity about leaving.

But still I can see why his wife and son would be annoyed. Not even because of what specifically he's saying, but because he's so insistent on controlling the narrative and not letting them process in their own way. For him he probably kept the secret that he was running for a long time, treasured it, looked forward to telling it and now he's got these other people not playing the parts they played in his head. 

There's even that nice touch where his wife is accusing him of ruining everything and he says the only thing awful about the US is her (or something like that) and then he kisses her. Like he makes it look like they're having a playful, affectionate conversation. Elizabeth and Philip, of course, know different, but even if they didn't his wife specifically switches to English to say "Pasha is unhappy!" after he does it, not letting him get away with that.

[tennisgurl]

I'm with everyone else with my "MARTHA!!!!" reaction. I was wondering why we were focusing so long on this random woman, and then Martha! What a great surprise! Maybe we will see her again and see how she is doing in the USSR, or maybe we were just checking in on her to show us that she made it to Moscow, either way works for me. I would be happy with seeing more Martha, but if this is the last time we see her, I'm alright with that. It looks like she is living her life, but isn't very happy. Going from supermarkets in DC to supermarkets in the USSR must be a hell of a transition.

You know, I totally get why Alexei keeps going on about how much the USSR sucks. He is getting all this off his chest for the first time, and he certainly has a lot to complain about. However, I do get why his family (especially the son) are irritated with him. Does he ALWAYS bring it back to complaining about Russia? When he was talking about bowling, I was surprised to hear him actually talking about a good memory from his homeland...then of course he started complaining again. He certainly has a lot to complain about, but living with that all the time? Its like having a Russian Debbie Downer around constantly.

I don't think Elizabeth is a sociopath, so much as she is so obsessed with her cause, that it allows her to justify anything she does to herself. I think she still considers the US to be a big opulent country filled with babies (not everyone, but a lot of them) who want nothing more than to see her homeland wiped off the face of the Earth. So when someone tells her that the US is planning a Big Evil Plot to starve her people, she can immediately start justifying killing a guy or two. She is capable of empathy towards others, and she's capable of love or care for other people, its just that she has such tunnel vision that she just goes with whatever she's told to do against the US. Philip is still on Team KGB, but he questions things a lot more. In this episode, he actually listened to Alexei and his complaints, and while he still thinks the guy is a traitor, he was still like "You know, the guy does have a few decent points..."and wondering why the USSR cant just make their own damn food for their own people. I don't know if Elizabeth was working Philip on purpose, but I think it might have been there somewhere. She has always kind of worried about Philips commitment, even though I do think she loves him as much as she is capable of loving a person not her kids or the USSR. She wants to keep that spark in Philip pushed down as much as possible, because I think she is concerned about what could happen if he ever does turn. Would she be able to kill him? I think she could, but it would REALLY hurt for her.

Oleg is still all kinds of sexy. Nobody looks as good as him walking down the street in a billowing black coat looking troubled. The poor guy knows how  screwed he is, and where this is all probably going to end up, but he is still trying to do his job damn it! I give him props for actually trying to do his job and make the system run smoother all the while having this giant cloud over his head. I don't think he cared what the woman was up to, he is just trying to figure out who her connection is. I'm not sure what exactly his plan is, but I hope he gets to do something good before he gets his one way trip to the gulag.

Edited March 23, 2017 by tennisgurl

[operalover]

2 hours ago, operalover said:

Can someone explain why the FBI is watching Tuan? They were talking about a schedule of cars. They know he is a spy?

 

Sorry this quote functionis leaving out the answer-some above answered my question that the FBI is watching the Russian family next door. Why would the FBI be watching them if the CIA smuggled him out of Russia? Does Tuan really live right next door to them? Maybe he lives a few blocks over and is able to see the schedule of the cars watching the family.

[Dev F]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

A Russian working in America whom they want to turn into an informer. As was the Aeroflot guy. We're seeing day-to-day drudge work of the FBI. I loved Stan's joke about their bad suits.

Yep. I wonder if part of the idea is that FBI counterintelligence is in a bit of a rebuilding phase, since the tradeoff of PNGing the Russian rezident is that it throws a wrench into your own surveillance and sourcing operations, particularly since they don't have a source inside the rezidentura feeding them details of the realignment like they did when Vasili was recalled.

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

My understanding is that Oleg was trying to find out who her supplier was. He thought she was bribing someone to get the best quality/rare food. He wasn't interested in what she was doing. He was after the bigger fish, the person accepting the bribe. 

And really that's just the impression he's trying to convey to the market manager, since who he's actually after are the Party bigwigs who are entangled in the scheme. But admitting that would amount to an acknowledgment that he's not just a humble Food Police agent but an actual member of the KGB.

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, operalover said:

Why would the FBI be watching them if the CIA smuggled him out of Russia?

The CIA isn't supposed to operate on American soil, so the FBI takes over.

[Bannon]

21 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

Lol, no. I'm fairly certain the writers are quoting someone they've met, Alexei is so familiar. If anything he's toned down because he doesn't use much profanity. My sister texted me while watching the first episode, "this guy really sounds like Papa". Papa's been here thirty years and he still won't forgive the Soviet Union. Granted it's no longer the first thing on his mind all the time, but even now, get him started on Russia and he explodes in three different languages, including some pretty serious Yiddish hexes on the country. My mother is scarier, she gets this hard look in her eye like she'd like to go back there on a killing spree but there's ironing to be done at home first, and that takes precedence.

The love of the US in comparison isn't hyperbolic either. One of my favorite memories is from when I was eleven -- my parents had finally saved up enough and bought a house. The yard was completely bare and dead and it took us years to get anything to grow. In our first month living there, one day Papa took a shovel and started turning over the earth on one side of the house while I followed along, picking up earthworms. It was hard work and he was almost 50, but he absolutely loved it and spent the whole time talking about how he was working his own land, for himself, with no one forcing him to do the work and him never seeing the result. (Making students and other young people do work like this was a rite of passage. An awful, dirty, painful, thankless rite of passage.)

 I've spent time in communities where the term "holodomor" needs no explanation, and back in the 80s there were people who had their own memories of it. What I meant is having a bit more reticence when engaging with strangers. If your father was not that way, so be it.

[shura]

33 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

It doesn't matter what he calls himself, she knows who he reports to. Anyone, and I mean anyone from the government had ties to the KGB. Anyone doing investigating was definitely tied to the KGB.

Then I would find it impossible to believe that this is her first encounter with someone tied to the KGB. She is not an innocent person from the street, she is a store manager. Someone from some level of government had to sign off on her appointment. So she's met the KGB (in some form) before. Why should she be terrified of meeting them now if it has nothing to do with her activities she could be arrested for? For all I know, she is already their informant keeping an eye on her employees and their attitudes.

[SunnyBeBe]

40 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

Lol, no. I'm fairly certain the writers are quoting someone they've met, Alexei is so familiar. If anything he's toned down because he doesn't use much profanity. My sister texted me while watching the first episode, "this guy really sounds like Papa". Papa's been here thirty years and he still won't forgive the Soviet Union. Granted it's no longer the first thing on his mind all the time, but even now, get him started on Russia and he explodes in three different languages, including some pretty serious Yiddish hexes on the country. My mother is scarier, she gets this hard look in her eye like she'd like to go back there on a killing spree but there's ironing to be done at home first, and that takes precedence.

The love of the US in comparison isn't hyperbolic either. One of my favorite memories is from when I was eleven -- my parents had finally saved up enough and bought a house. The yard was completely bare and dead and it took us years to get anything to grow. In our first month living there, one day Papa took a shovel and started turning over the earth on one side of the house while I followed along, picking up earthworms. It was hard work and he was almost 50, but he absolutely loved it and spent the whole time talking about how he was working his own land, for himself, with no one forcing him to do the work and him never seeing the result. (Making students and other young people do work like this was a rite of passage. An awful, dirty, painful, thankless rite of passage.)

I appreciate your account. It's very touching. 

Still, I can't figure out why if the CIA smuggled Alexei out of Russia, he's acting so demonstrative and is being watched by the FBI.  Or, is the one the CIA smuggled out a different person? 

Edited March 22, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[SlackerInc]

Another great episode.

Sure was weird that Tuan essentially said Philip and Elizabeth's mission (and their country) was doomed, that the USSR "will be destroyed by America".  (He then sort of caught himself when Elizabeth was like "ehhh...wot?")  Also that he believes the U.S. had already done the same to Vietnam.  Sure, his country took heavy, heavy damage in the war, but that was true of the USSR in WWII and they took heavy pride in having ultimately prevailed.

In the case of Vietnam, not only did the U.S.-backed South simply fail to defeat the North (leading to stalemate as in Korea), the North Vietnam government ultimately took over the whole country!  No pride in making the last U.S. officials flee in helicopters from Saigon rooftops?

Oh, Philip using your hand to wipe the fog off the mirror is such an amateur move!  The oil from your hands is going to make it worse next time.  Pro tip: always wipe condensation from mirrors or windshields with a cloth or paper towel (in the "olden days", newsprint was great).  If it's still smeary, try using some white vinegar: no need for Windex.

Mordant joke by Philip there right at the end of the episode.  "Shall we tell Paige about this?"

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It really pissed me off when they killed Randy.  He's just some random scientist doing his job.  Did I miss it?  Was there ANY proof the bugs were destined to ruin Russian wheat?  Wasn't there a chance they were working on ways to eradicate them for Australia? 

I suppose there's a chance, but I'm not really understanding all the posts bending over backward to make that look innocent.  Some anonymous agency is hiring them to produce a new form of extremely destructive pest that can destroy wheat, the lab's not asking questions, etc., and that's going to turn out to be positive?  I guess, maybe.

15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes.  It can, and probably is.

But it's certainly not worse than spending life in prison or maybe even being executed.

6 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

If only Philip and Elizabeth wore ski masks when they break into places, then they wouldn't have to kill so many employees who show up unexpectedly at 2 am. 

See the quote below from SunnyBebe.

4 hours ago, Kathemy said:

I really liked the acting performances. I didn't think Paige was bad, I liked her scenes with E&P, I loved the acting of E&P, I loved getting to see Martha again, I loved Oleg's acting, I loved Misha's acting.

Nothing special really, it's mostly "why I love The Americans" over all.

Yeah, and I also thought it was well written, directed, and photographed.  The whole package.  I guess I would have just as hard a time understanding why people didn't like this episode.  At least, if they like the show overall (I can understand why the vast majority of people aren't into TV like this).  And it's not like I have always just loved every episode.  It's my favorite show on TV, so that's definitely the case for most of them; but as I've said before, I hated the reveal about Jared killing his family.  But it has literally been years since I haven't liked an episode, or probably loved it.

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That scene of of P & E standing there together.....probably my favorite of the series so far. I think those disguises are my favorite too. 

Martha overshadowed everything for me, (OH WHAT JOY!).  She may be frustrated with low inventory in the market, but, it's better than the alternative, imo. I hope we'll get the chance to see if relocating was REALLY worth it. 

IMO,  P &E are limited in their options  to avoid killing someone who walks in on their missions.  Because, even if the person can't identify them or give a description, JUST THE REPORT THAT THERE WAS A BREAK-IN is unacceptable. They don't want to tip their hand. Still.....man, that was brutal.  I know he was a goner as soon as he started that call.  

Yup, cosigning all of this!

3 hours ago, operalover said:

Also would Australia be allowed to export midges to the USA? I thought shipping any kind of bug was to another country was specifically prohibited by treaties.

Even if it's done for scientific research?

20 minutes ago, operalover said:

Why would the FBI be watching them if the CIA smuggled him out of Russia?

A couple reasons.  Remember Zenaida?  She also got smuggled out of Russia by the CIA, but she was a double agent working for the USSR.  Stan figured it out, with Oleg's help.  So they need to be on guard for that (all the moreso now that they found Zenaida out).  Secondly, they want to guard against people like Philip and Elizabeth.

ETA: Add me to those who loved the Roxy Music song; and of course to those who got excited to see Martha.

Edited March 22, 2017 by SlackerInc

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

But that is the thing would you be able to describe them to an 80s sketch artist.  The lady in season 1 who's son got poisoned spent an entire day with them and drew a half assed picture that Stan couldn't recognize as his neighbors. 

Didn't they also have a sketch of Clark, whom Stan also didn't recognize?

Didn't it seem that Stan and Aderholt had a blunderbuss technique for their approaches to the Russian in public places?  Rather heavyhanded, no?

[SunnyBeBe]

So, why do you think that Matthew brings up his dad's new girlfriend again?  Are the writers just being funny or is there a real reason to focus on her? Maybe, Stan's focus on the new girlfriend provides an explanation as to why he misses something critical at work.  I don't have high hopes for his partner though.  Have many of Stan's partner's, colleagues, bosses survived over the last couple of years?  I might be looking into that. 

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

So, why do you think that Matthew brings up his dad's new girlfriend again?  Are the writers just being funny or is there a real reason to focus on her? Maybe, Stan's focus on the new girlfriend provides an explanation as to why he misses something critical at work.

 

I think it would be the natural thing for them to talk about. Remember her whole relationship with Matthew is basically about their parents, how parents can be difficult. Matthew's been going through a delicate transition with his father, and he, at least, is definitely going to meet this Renee person. (Thematically, it fits into the idea of a kid suddenly relating to his parent as an adult, because Matthew is being invited into Stan's sex life to a degree by knowing he met this woman.) So I think a large part of it exactly what Philip talked about--Matthew's talking about teen life, Paige is distracted by world events that Matthew brushes off by saying they can't do anything about them. 

So it advances the plot of Stan/Renee and reminds us of her for when we see them together, shows Paige and Matthew in different worlds, but also shows Paige wanting to blab and using her technique. By the end of the convo they're talking about something that neither of them cares about, Paige's homework. (Btw, Matthew offering to help her did not help the way he occasionally seems so much older than she is. Jim seems more natural with Kimmy at times!)

[Chaos Theory]

19 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Didn't they also have a sketch of Clark, whom Stan also didn't recognize?

Didn't it seem that Stan and Aderholt had a blunderbuss technique for their approaches to the Russian in public places?  Rather heavyhanded, no?

Not really.  People running around in masks get noticed eventually.  People in full makeup, wigs, glasses and lives with paperwork that can be backed up at least initially don't.   It's completely possible that Stan walked by one or both of them one day and barely looked at them twice.  If they were wearing masks and full breaking into something getup he would have taken notice.

Of course there are limits.  Stans former partner Amador would have dug into Clark out of simple jealousy so Philip kinda had to kill him.   P&E can walk around Virginia but walking into federal buildings would be serious red flags without valid reasons and a very good backdrop.  

If they are smart (which they are) and research their rolls P&E can pretty much go anywhere in a wig and a cowboy cat.  They don't need a mask.  A mask would just get them noticed.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[EtheltoTillie]

6 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not really.  People running around in masks get noticed eventually.  People in full makeup, wigs, glasses and lives with paperwork that can be backed up at least initially don't.   It's completely possible that Stan walked by one or both of them one day and barely looked at them twice.  If they were wearing masks and full breaking into something getup he would have taken notice.

I'm thinking of something else.  I vaguely remember that after the Martha fiasco they had someone identify Clark as the "husband" they used to see going in to her apartment, and they had a sketch done.  Does anyone remember this?  

[PinkRibbons]

27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

 I've spent time in communities where the term "holodomor" needs no explanation, and back in the 80s there were people who had their own memories of it. What I meant is having a bit more reticence when engaging with strangers. If your father was not that way, so be it.

The siblings my grandfather didn't lose in the Holocaust, he lost to that famine. Burn in hell with a flaming poker in every orifice, Stalin.

That's an interesting thought! Papa was always very open about hating Russia, and I know more than a few other men (it's almost always men that are that open and furious) like him, but there were those who still felt (and feel) a kind of fear of speaking out. Now that I think about, IME newly immigrated women were more likely to spend their time focusing on building up their futures in America, rather than rehashing their lives in the USSR.

When we came here were started moving into the American Jewish Community, and sometimes we'd be invited over for Shabbos Lunch or dinner the night before. Papa always liked to tell stories of the horrible USSR to our hosts and I remember my sister and I being kind of embarrassed about it. I realize now that he must have felt like he was being judged for not being as religious as they were, and that they couldn't understand what he'd been through and that it could've easily been their lives as well, if their grandparents hadn't immigrated when they did.

[SunnyBeBe]

8 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I'm thinking of something else.  I vaguely remember that after the Martha fiasco they had someone identify Clark as the "husband" they used to see going in to her apartment, and they had a sketch done.  Does anyone remember this?  

Yes.  I recall it. I believe it was the building landlord who gave a description of the man who lived there.  I don't have the previous seasons on hand. Are they available on the FX website? Maybe, someone can check on it, if they have it handy.

Edited March 22, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not sure if it was Clarke's landlord or the people from Martha's building, but, it seems like there was a sketch.  They also discovered that the ID of Clarke was a dead man, right?

[EtheltoTillie]

12 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes.  I recall it. I believe it was the building landlord who gave a description of the man who lived there.  I don't have the previous seasons on hand. Are they available on the FX website? Maybe, someone can check on it, if they have it handy.

Thanks!  All the old episodes are on Amazon Prime.

[Chaos Theory]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes.  I recall it. I believe it was the building landlord who gave a description of the man who lived there.  I don't have the previous seasons on hand. Are they available on the FX website? Maybe, someone can check on it, if they have it handy.

Amazon Prime has it.  Clarke's landlord did a sketch of Clarke and his "hot wife."  When Gaad showed Stan a picture of Martha he was like "Who's that?"  I thought it was a funny example of why police don't rely too heavy on witness statements.  One mans hottie.....

Edited March 22, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[EtheltoTillie]

I found it.  The super described him for a sketch.  It's Season 4, episode 7, minute 34.  It looks exactly like Matthew Rhys.  Epic fail, Stan.