S02.E17: Monday Mourning

[WendyCR72]

Dr. Choi and Dr. Halstead face off over how to treat a patient with stroke symptoms while Dr. Manning treats a young boy who fell in the river and watches the family turmoil unfold. Meanwhile, Dr. Rhodes examines the man who saved Dr. Manning's patient and emphasizes the importance of learning from your mistakes to Dr. Reese.

[BooksRule]

The opening scene was chilling, because the resident was so casual about the whole thing, but it would have been ten times more effective if we hadn't seen him jump in the preview after last week's episode.  

Dr. Charles is my favorite character (with Maggie and Choi tying for second place).  I'm still not a big fan of Reese (as a psych resident, anyway), but I did like that she actually realized that someone needed to ask Dr. Charles if he was okay.  And, of course, he wasn't.  

[Artsda]

Wow that was quite an opening scene. I was still shocked the rest of the episode. 

April breaking up with her fiancee is no surprise. She acted like she didn't care about him for the entire time. It was always about her. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, we didn't get a lot of Wheeler this season, as he was only introduced six episodes ago, but I might miss him a bit. I will say that the first two minutes were done well. The complete lack of music, the peaceful tone, the calm look on Wheeler's face as he got to the tenth floor and jumped. Good job, Chicago Med. You did something actually decent. 

Torrey Devito's acting in the scene with the mother calling her a monster was so, so bad. She made the wrong choice having Manning be completely judgey and emotional. The way she snapped the mother's name like it was venom coming out of her lips made me want to smack her. The woman may have been a complete bitch and I didn't like her blaming everyone, but her son was dying so Manning needed to keep her cool. And this isn't the first time Manning's showed her true emotions toward a patient's family, so her bitchiness can't be blamed on Wheeler's suicide. This is why I do not like Manning.

It was nice to see Reese back in ED, and it was a nice change to see her assisting Connor. Seeing as I love Connor, it really helped me like Reese again. Connor was really trying to help her out, which was nice. 

Not surprising that April and Tate broke up.

Choi and Halstead had some good scenes together. Dr. Charles did too; he was trying to be there for everyone, but he was most definitely affected and I'm glad Reese asked him if he was ok.

[statsgirl]

I would have been more affected by Wheeler's death if I had known anything at all about Wheeler. I know the episode was supposed to be an exploration of how the suicide affects the members of the hospital but it was like an intellectual exercise to me because Wheeler was such an unknown. When Gant died on ER, I cared.

Is Reese going back to the ER to take Wheeler's place now?  Please, let it be so.  She had a good moment at the end when she asked Charles how he was but during the rest of the episode, she rivaled Manning for egocentricity and judgyness.

I liked Choi's story and  how he kept denying that he was affected by Wheeler's suicide when he really was.  It was a nice moment when he took the stethoscope down to the morgue. ( At that point, the person I was watching with and who used to work in the bookstore at a medical school, said that stethoscopes get stolen a lot in hospital and that's why they carry a range of colours, so that it's easier to tell if someone has stolen yours and is using it.)

I also liked Abrams admitting that he thought about suicide when he was a med student.

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

April breaking up with her fiancee is no surprise. She acted like she didn't care about him for the entire time. It was always about her. 

It really was always about her, even when it came to taking care of her baby.  She always chose herself.

[LittleIggy]

Glad to see Abrams again. I like that guy.

Maggie talking to the dad had me tearing up as did Choi in the morgue. On a morbid note, wouldn't Wheeling have been more smashed up looking?

[Calamity Jane]

46 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I would have been more affected by Wheeler's death if I had known anything at all about Wheeler. I know the episode was supposed to be an exploration of how the suicide affects the members of the hospital but it was like an intellectual exercise to me because Wheeler was such an unknown. When Gant died on ER, I cared.

I

I had the same reaction precisely, but I wondered if it was  because I'm old and just didn't pay as much attention to Wheeler. Glad to know it struck someone else the same way!  I could barely remember Wheeler, but every time he was on, I remember thinking, that boy ain't right, something's wrong with him.  So I guess he did a good job projecting that.  

[MakeMeLaugh]

The few times we saw Wheeler he was asking directly or indirectly for help. Reese particularly but also Rhodes, and if Goodwin has made it her mission to be sure all the young'uns are safe, she sure wasn't proactively looking for those who might need help. I think they will need a long time cope with feelings of guilt about that. 

Wheeler's dad was good. 

Didn't we just see Manning unfairly harangued by a mom when two boys were hurt and she chose which one to get the machine? Seriously, she can just go away now. The level of sorrow the rest of the cast displayed vs her over-emoting was telling. The actress shouldn't be on a show with actors who are so much better imo--the scene near the end with understated Goodwin and Charles was exquisite. And Reese with a mask on observing heart operation can outact her with just her eyes showing.

[FnkyChkn34]

I don't normally watch Chicago Med, but I tuned in last night (because I was free and - full disclosure - because I read Jesse Lee Soffer was on as a guest star).  This episode was pretty good, and I agree that the opening scene was well done and very powerful.  It was obvious from the first few seconds what he was going to do; as soon as the nurse told him he had a patient and he said he'd be there in a few minutes, I knew that he wasn't ever going to see that patient.  But it was still well done.

I doubt I'll become a regular watcher, but it was a decent hour of TV for a night.  

I guess this is a really dumb question, but Dr. Rhodes isn't with the character that's played by his real-life wife?  She was only on for a few seconds in one short scene.  Is she with Dr. Halstead?

[statsgirl]

Yes, Patty Murin plays Nina the pathologist, who is currently living with Halstead.  I assume it's only temporary because Halstead/Manning are the OTP on this show and that makes me feel sad because Patty makes Halstead much more enjoyable than when he's with Manning.

9 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

  I could barely remember Wheeler, but every time he was on, I remember thinking, that boy ain't right, something's wrong with him.  So I guess he did a good job projecting that.  

Hee, you're more empathic than the staff in the ED.

I think the one thing that really bugged me was that apparently there is only one by-pass machine in this large hospital so they had to do chest compressions on the boy.  Twenty people did it in shifts, wouldn't that cost a lot of money for staff like that?  Meanwhile the MRI machine, which costs a lot more money, was free for the other boy.  In my hospital the MRIs are booked 24/7.  (If they pulled an outpatient to do the MRI on him,  I withdraw the latter complaint.)

On top of the lack of supplies during the big snowstorm a couple of episodes ago, I'm really wondering about the competence of the administration of the hospital.

[Tiger]

Of course Manning made Wheeler's suicide all about her and will next week/episode (?) use the tragedy to get in Halstead's pants.  She is truly awful.  I love when Charles hesitates for a secons abouy going to comfort her and then bolted instead.  

[weathered1]

I wholeheartedly agree that Wheeler's suicide - while a powerful, well-done scene - would have resonated so much more if he hadn't been little more than wallpaper (relatively speaking) during his short tenure on the show. If he'd been truly featured, if we'd gotten to know him, if the show had given him the focus that would've enabled him to be an actual fully fleshed out character, then the storyline and its aftermath would've been a homerun, imo. 

For the most part, I thought the reactions of the various characters were handled well, especially Choi, the scenes with Rhodes and Reese, and the latter actually thinking to check in with Dr. Charles about how he was dealing with it. 

What was not handled well? Everything having to do with Manning. When the show first started, I didn't mind her. Now I can't stand her and how self-centered she is, and Torrey DeVitto's acting choices often (imo) leave a lot to be desired. As for the thing with Manning/Halstead, I think the show really miscalculated by putting him with the vastly superior Nina - she's a much better character than Manning, has more chemistry with him, and actually makes him likable. So going back to focusing on the decidedly ugh Manning/Halstead at the expense of the better pairing (and actress) is ill-advised, to say the least, and I'm not at all looking forward to it. (That was all just my opinion, of course.)

[DearEvette]

19 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It really was always about her, even when it came to taking care of her baby.  She always chose herself.

What does that mean?  When she endanger her baby by choosing something that benefited her?

[Netfoot]

Didn't see last week's preview.  But from the time I saw him getting on the elevator I figured someone was going to buy it.  Either he'd go postal with an UZI in the cafeteria, or stick his head in a medical waste meat-grinder, or something.

20 hours ago, Artsda said:

April breaking up with her fiancee is no surprise. She acted like she didn't care about him for the entire time. It was always about her. 

Absolutely.  And the writers gave her the nod by allowing her to break it off with him, when really he should have dumped her!  Self-involved asshole that she is.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

What does that mean?  When she endanger her baby by choosing something that benefited her?

I think* Tate's view is that April's job was the reason she got TB and then the stress of it led to her losing the baby.  

*but who knows since he and their relationship, like almost everything and everyone on this show, is chronically underdeveloped. NBC and Wolfe desperatly want this show to be NuER but they dont want to actually put the work in.

[DearEvette]

48 minutes ago, Tiger said:

*but who knows since he and their relationship, like almost everything and everyone on this show, is chronically underdeveloped. NBC and Wolfe desperatly want this show to be NuER but they dont want to actually put the work in.

This is so true.  Which is why i can't even get worked over their break up.  Their relationship was doomed out the gate because 1) he isn't a hospital regular and 2) he is a recurring character and 3) this show at its bones is a procedural and where relationships take a back seat. I mean, Sharon's husband conveniently left (we never even saw his face), Choi's girlfriend disappeared, Robin only appears sporadically, Manning and Jeff imploded over the worst writing, Halstead's girlfriend seems nice but she'll probably be gone soon and poor Maggie doesn't even get to date.

[TVForever]

Where has Reese's adorable boyfriend gone? Haven't seen him in awhile.

[heyitsme87]

I found this episode boring. I wish Wheeler had established some relationships with any of the others to make me care more. I really only liked Rhodes and how he tried to help out self doubting Reese. When is her 'im no good at anything' going to stop btw? 

[statsgirl]

The actor playing Reese's boyfriend is credited for 7 episodes according to IMDB, including 219 so we'll probably see him soon.   Cynthia Addai-Robinson (Choi's girlfriend) is on another series now, Shooter.

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

What does that mean?  When she endanger her baby by choosing something that benefited her?

I felt sympathy for her when she was faced with a difficult decision of being pregnant and having to take a drug that could harm her fetus.  But after that, it was like her baby was no big deal.  She continued on just as she had before even when they found out that the baby was not developing on schedule. Tate had to pack her healthy lunches so that she didn't just eat junk food, and when she finished a (12 hour?) shift and they were short staffed, she jumped in to do a second one even though she was several months pregnant and I think this was after there already were problems with the baby.  There is an air about her of "I'm so important because I'm a nurse and that takes precedence over everything, even my baby and my fiance".  I'm sorry, lady, but when you decide you're going to carry your baby to term, it's your responsibility to make that baby as healthy as you can.

The entitlement was really evident in this episode when Tate came all the way across town to have lunch with her and she couldn't take ten seconds to tell him not to come because she was too busy and too important to take time for lunch.  She probably forgot he was coming because she headed for the junk food machine instead of texting him. That's major arrogance there.  And then she blames it on him wanting her to be something that she isn't.

Edited March 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[starri]

Natalie is a lot like Jill Flint's character on The Night Shift.  Torrey DeVito and Jill Flint even look very similar.  I thought Flint was the absolute nadir of TV doctors, but boy has Natalie managed to eclipse that.  Torrey DeVito.  Is.  A.  Terrible.  Actress.

I can't find any way to feel about Wheeler.  On the one had, physician suicide is a real thing.  On the other hand, all we knew about him was that he was struggling.  If they'd even tried to connect him to someone, like Dennis Gant was connected to Carter, it would have had more of an impact.  And also, I think, if he was having problems focused around one particular person, like Gant was with Benton.

I'm glad they didn't make a bigger deal out of the Conversion Disorder Kid's orientation.  I figured that was where it was headed when the boyfriend showed up, but that wasn't the point of his problems.

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

There is an air about her of "I'm so important because I'm a nurse and that takes precedence over everything, even my baby and my fiance".

Word.

[DearEvette]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

But after that, it was like her baby was no big deal.  She continued on just as she had before even when they found out that the baby was not developing on schedule. Tate had to pack her healthy lunches so that she didn't just eat junk food, and when she finished a (12 hour?) shift and they were short staffed, she jumped in to do a second one even though she was several months pregnant

Thanks for explaining but I still don't get it.  Isn't she in her first trimester?  Most women in their first trimester or even far into the second can still go on like they normally do.  As long as she isn't drinking or smoking or eating things like sushi, Pregnant women can still work regular or even extra shifts or jog or even participate in a triathlon.  If the baby wasn't developing on schedule there was nothing working a second shift would have affected.   As it was the whole second shift thing was clearly a contrived plot to create more conflict between her and Tate.

It just feels like she is being harshly judged for working while pregnant.  I'd feel differently if there had been a scene where she had been told 'you need to be careful about working' or 'you need to stay off your feet' but we didn't see any such scene.  But she worked one extra shift and because he made a stink about it suddenly she's not taking care of her baby?  I also don't understand why he gets such a pass on everything.  Just because he is rich and doesn't have a regular 9-to-5 he seems like he sees her job as unnecessary to them.  How is that not selfish?  What should she just sit around with her feet up just because he has all the time in the world

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The entitlement was really evident in this episode when Tate came all the way across town to have lunch with her and she couldn't take ten seconds to tell him not to come because she was too busy and too important to take time for lunch.  She probably forgot he was coming because she headed for the junk food machine instead of texting him. That's major arrogance there.  And then she blames it on him wanting her to be something that she isn't.

Is it really entitlement though if you get to busy at work to forget you were gonna have lunch with someone?  It is very inconsiderate,  yes but it doesn't mean you think you are too important  it just signals you forgot.  And she has a right to blame him for wanting her to be something she isn't.  You shouldn't have to become someone you aren't and you shouldn't have to be made to feel bad for not contorting yourself into a person to satisfy some one else's need for you to be someone else.

I guess I'll have to continue to disagree on your assessment of April.  I just am not seeing this major selfishness.

[Netfoot]

34 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

What should she just sit around with her feet up just because he has all the time in the world

She should sit around with her feet up because she suffers from TB and the medication is harmful to her child.  And working long shifts, not eating properly, etc, does nothing to increase the chance of a successful delivery.  (I know someone who lay in bed for 6-7 months to ensure that her baby would be born safely.)

It's really up to her, but April shouldn't be surprised if people are not happy with her complete disregard for...  everything and everyone in her life.

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Thanks for explaining but I still don't get it.  Isn't she in her first trimester?  Most women in their first trimester or even far into the second can still go on like they normally do.  As long as she isn't drinking or smoking or eating things like sushi, Pregnant women can still work regular or even extra shifts or jog or even participate in a triathlon.  If the baby wasn't developing on schedule there was nothing working a second shift would have affected.   As it was the whole second shift thing was clearly a contrived plot to create more conflict between her and Tate.

I know it's hard to tell since they never gave Yaya any kind of baby bump, but I believe she was well into her second trimester. Her pregnancy was a high risk pregnancy and even though Tate was wrong in continuing to tell her to quit her job, as she definitely can work, she needed to slow it down and not continue to pick up shifts when she didn't need to. I think they tried to showcase that both were wrong, but it ended up making Tate look worse since the writing this entire season has been in clear favour toward April. Either way, April's pregnancy was dangerous from the beginning, but she was treating it like it was a normal pregnancy, which it was not. If she didn't have TB, there's a chance I'd be fine with her wanting to work and do her normal activities. But since her OB even said that the baby was at risk for her TB, I was on Tate's side in taking it easy, though not necessarily his methods. Not quitting work or having to remain on bedrest for months, but just not taking as many shifts, eating healthy, and making sure that she wasn't overexerting herself. 

That being said, it does seem like her and Tate were going to weekly ultrasound appointments so they were keeping an eye on the baby. 

Also, I guess Tate's son doesn't exist in this universe anymore. There's been zero mention of him, and they've been acting as if it's just been April, Tate, and the baby. 

[Artsda]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Thanks for explaining but I still don't get it.  Isn't she in her first trimester?  Most women in their first trimester or even far into the second can still go on like they normally do. 

She's not normal. 

She's got TB and having a high risk pregnancy due to her medication. Even carrying the baby to term was a question for her. She chose to carry the baby, she insisted on carrying the baby when the fiancee thought otherwise. Instead of then taking care of that pregnancy, she's at the hospital for 12+ hours on her feet, in stressful situations and barely eating. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

At the miscarriage, April was 19 weeks (she had told Maggie at the beginning of the previous episode that she had 21 weeks to go). IRL I imagine she would not have continued working post-TB diagnosis if her MD told her not to (not sure if her docs suggested she take time off). I think Show painted her into a corner plotwise (plus they already had Manning's pregnancy and birth storylines, with a dead husband vs TB for drama). I wonder if the actress had other acting prospects so the writers didn't want to invest much more at the time. But sorry to see Tate go as he is one good-looking guy....

Edited March 18, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[spunky]

Dr. Wheeler's calm exterior as he greeted everyone then took the elevator to the top floor was just chilling. As someone who lost a friend to suicide, Reese 's survivors guilt really struck a cord. I like Dr. Choi, but him referring to someone's death as an "incident", demanding that Maggie magically empty the waiting room, then his blatant disregard for Dr. Halstead's medical opinion grated on my nerves. Really dude, you can't show any kind of empathy? April breaking up with Tate was the best decision she has made in a long time. Tate seems to want someone who he can control, so good riddance. Writers I beg of you, if you so badly want Dr. Halstead to be in a relationship with someone other than Nina, please give him a puppy. He and Natalie are like watching paint dry. While we're on the subject, can you please give Maggie a love interest? It doesn't have to be someone at the hospital. I'm sure there are single men on the one Chicago universe.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

She's not normal. 

She's got TB and having a high risk pregnancy due to her medication. Even carrying the baby to term was a question for her. She chose to carry the baby, she insisted on carrying the baby when the fiancee thought otherwise. Instead of then taking care of that pregnancy, she's at the hospital for 12+ hours on her feet, in stressful situations and barely eating. 

Fair enough.  But I don't remember, has it been established in show that she makes a normal habit of working extra long shifts and not eating well?  I can only recall the issue coming up because she was called in the one time to do one extra shift.  And IIRC, that was after the ultrasound that said the baby was now developing normally and the meds weren't affecting the health of the baby at that point.

I think you can guess I am Team April.  LOL.  But the concern around her working extra came from him, not from a medical professional.  I would be more inclined to agree that she was endangering the baby if we had even gotten one scene of her OB saying "April you need to slow down or cut back" and then seeing her willfully ignoring that.  Absent such a scene it doesn't seem like the show is trying to establish that the pregnancy itself is so high risk that is merits her not being able to work.  The only person who seems to object to her working is Tate.  And coming from him , a guy who already seemed like he wanted her to quit working in the first place (...did I imagine a scene like that or did he actually float her quitting after they got married?)  .. then it feels like the objection to her taking the extra shift is just another way of him trying to signal his objection to her working and using her pregnancy as the means to do so.

I think you can guess I an Team Not Tate.  LOL.  He's a good looking guy (sigh) but I always got the whiff of "she's my little lady" vibe from him in his interactions with April and I was not sold on their relationship from the jump. So I am 100% ok with the break up.

[statsgirl]

The ultrasound showed that the baby wasn't developing normally. The OB was concerned but said not to worry just yet, they would see at the next ultrasound. That was before April took the extra shift.  I think her not eating well came up last season but I could be remembering wrong.

15 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Is it really entitlement though if you get to busy at work to forget you were gonna have lunch with someone?  It is very inconsiderate,  yes but it doesn't mean you think you are too important  it just signals you forgot.

I used to work part time in an ED when I was in university and our definition of busy was 12 gurneys in the hallway with patients waiting for exam rooms and beds so that shift didn't seem busy to me.  But even when it was that busyin my hospital, the nurses still took breaks.  The fact that April completely forgot that her boyfriend was coming across town to have lunch with her, even when she was grabbing some junk food from the machine, says a lot to me about how much he valued their relationship and how little she did.

9 hours ago, spunky said:

 I like Dr. Choi, but him referring to someone's death as an "incident", demanding that Maggie magically empty the waiting room, then his blatant disregard for Dr. Halstead's medical opinion grated on my nerves.

That was how Wheeler's death was affecting him though, an almost frantic determination not to lose this patient no matter what it took.  Choi was Wheeler's direct boss and Wheeler's suicide hit him hard.  He was trying to deal with it unemotionally but the feelings leaked through in other ways.  In the end, he was the one who took Wheeler's stethoscope to him in the morgue.

Edited March 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[CheshireCat]

I don't quite agree that it's always about April. It was all about the baby for her and all about April for Tate. April wanted to keep the baby and why not? Having an illness doesn't mean that she has to give up everything. If memory serves, she also didn't want to take the meds because they could harm her baby, so again, I don't see why she was about her. And once she knew the baby might not be developing properly, I think she wanted to stop the meds again but they determined that everything was alright either later in the episode or the next one.

Tate wanted her to terminate the pregnancy for her sake not because the baby could not be healthy, but then, he already has a kid. Tate also wanted her to stop working long before she became pregnant, so I don't believe for one second that he was ever concerned about her.

I don't know if April would have been a high-risk pregnancy in real life or how that would have been handled but as long as the doctors aren't concerned about her working normally and are okay with her taking her meds, then that is what she should do if she wants to. As someone who knows someone with a chronic illness which needs to be medicated, and someone else with a disability, I'd say, April may have TB but that sidelines her enough and she does not want any special treatment other than the special treatment that she already has. It's like people with disabilities, they want to live as normal a life as possible and why not? If the specialists, in this case, the OBGYN don't have any objections, I don't see why anyone should put any more restrictions on them than their disability or illness gives them.

Edited March 19, 2017 by CheshireCat

[starri]

Long-winded medical explanation incoming:

April no longer has TB.  If I remember the plot right, she was found to have a latent infection, and was started on the treatment for that.  While she was taking the meds, it interfered with her birth control pills (I guess she's not too Catholic for those), and she got pregnant.  The pregnancy dropped her immune system which made her TB go active.  She didn't want to treat the TB initially, because three of the four medications used to treat it (you take all four) are thought to cause birth defects.  But she wouldn't be back at work at all if she hadn't been treated, because TB is incredibly contagious.

[spunky]

14 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I don't quite agree that it's always about April. It was all about the baby for her and all about April for Tate. April wanted to keep the baby and why not? Having an illness doesn't mean that she has to give up everything. If memory serves, she also didn't want to take the meds because they could harm her baby, so again, I don't see why she was about her. And once she knew the baby might not be developing properly, I think she wanted to stop the meds again but they determined that everything was alright either later in the episode or the next one.

Tate wanted her to terminate the pregnancy for her sake not because the baby could not be healthy, but then, he already has a kid. Tate also wanted her to stop working long before she became pregnant, so I don't believe for one second that he was ever concerned about her.

I don't know if April would have been a high-risk pregnancy in real life or how that would have been handled but as long as the doctors aren't concerned about her working normally and are okay with her taking her meds, then that is what she should do if she wants to. As someone who knows someone with a chronic illness which needs to be medicated, and someone else with a disability, I'd say, April may have TB but that sidelines her enough and she does not want any special treatment other than the special treatment that she already has. It's like people with disabilities, they want to live as normal a life as possible and why not? If the specialists, in this case, the OBGYN don't have any objections, I don't see why anyone should put any more restrictions on them than their disability or illness gives them.

Like you I never saw April as being self centered. Tate seems to want a woman whom he can control, not an independent, working woman. 

[spunky]

22 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Fair enough.  But I don't remember, has it been established in show that she makes a normal habit of working extra long shifts and not eating well?  I can only recall the issue coming up because she was called in the one time to do one extra shift.  And IIRC, that was after the ultrasound that said the baby was now developing normally and the meds weren't affecting the health of the baby at that point.

I think you can guess I am Team April.  LOL.  But the concern around her working extra came from him, not from a medical professional.  I would be more inclined to agree that she was endangering the baby if we had even gotten one scene of her OB saying "April you need to slow down or cut back" and then seeing her willfully ignoring that.  Absent such a scene it doesn't seem like the show is trying to establish that the pregnancy itself is so high risk that is merits her not being able to work.  The only person who seems to object to her working is Tate.  And coming from him , a guy who already seemed like he wanted her to quit working in the first place (...did I imagine a scene like that or did he actually float her quitting after they got married?)  .. then it feels like the objection to her taking the extra shift is just another way of him trying to signal his objection to her working and using her pregnancy as the means to do so.

I think you can guess I an Team Not Tate.  LOL.  He's a good looking guy (sigh) but I always got the whiff of "she's my little lady" vibe from him in his interactions with April and I was not sold on their relationship from the jump. So I am 100% ok with the break up.

You didn't imagine that scene, he wanted her to stop working long before she got pregnant. I'm on Team Not Tate as well. It was almost as though she was property to him.

[statsgirl]

15 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

April wanted to keep the baby and why not?

Because there was a high chance that the baby could have a congenital disability from the TB drugs, and some people feel that it's wrong to do that to a child.  It's a highly personal evaluation.  But even though he wanted an abortion, when April decided she was going to keep the baby Tate supported her and took care of them. 

The impression I got was that after her miscarriage, April decided that their relationship was now over and blocking that he was coming over for lunch was an outcome of that.

[Tiger]

44 minutes ago, spunky said:

Like you I never saw April as being self centered. Tate seems to want a woman whom he can control, not an independent, working woman. 

 

39 minutes ago, spunky said:

You didn't imagine that scene, he wanted her to stop working long before she got pregnant. I'm on Team Not Tate as well. It was almost as though she was property to him.

Anyone who has ever been in a relationship with someone who works in a hospital, let alone an emergency department, knows that sometimes thing happen, plans change, and meals get skipped.  

Tate's attitude about her forgetting their lunxh date was really pathetic, and spoke loudly to his attitude you've both enunciated above.

[Artsda]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

Like you I never saw April as being self centered. Tate seems to want a woman whom he can control, not an independent, working woman. 

April was always self centered. It was always what she wanted and Tate had to follow along. The fact he would even come all the way to the hospital across town just to eat with her, yet should couldn't even bother to let him know she had no time. Showed how self centered she was.

Quote

 

Fair enough.  But I don't remember, has it been established in show that she makes a normal habit of working extra long shifts and not eating well?

 

The not eating well and always on her feet is something they showed every episode since the pregnancy plot started. It was on going. Always agreeing to work extra and not thinking of the baby at all. When she's the one on insisted on keeping it. It's not a shock she lost it considering she didn't take care of herself and I think they should have shown Tate as the one blaming her and dumping her. Instead of it again being her being the one to end things.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Artsda

[Bobcatkitten]

Obviously Tate didn't want her to work even before the pregnancy so that's a strike against him. But I also think her taking extra shifts and eating crappy while carrying a high-risk pregnancy is a strike against her. Neither was perfect. Both made mistakes. 

[Artsda]

16 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

 

Obviously Tate didn't want her to work even before the pregnancy so that's a strike against him

 

I didn't find it a strike against him considering the reason as to why he asked her to stop working. That was all after she got hurt from the drunk guys and was in major pain. She was hurt and injured from work and that's where the whole stopping work conversation before they got engaged came from. 

I don't think even April called Tate when she lost the baby. She found out, went back to work like normal and went for her DNC. Maggie found out and showed up and then Tate showed up.  We never saw April put herself in his shoes and offer to be there for Tate. Even a throw away line like she was going to meet him for a surprise dinner or anything like that. We always saw him coming to her at work, packing her food, coming to meet her, her offering to work on her days off. While she just got mad or ignored him or forgot about him.  Tate just has to suck it up and agree with it. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by Artsda

[weathered1]

I think the Tate/April relationship (such as it was) suffered both from uneven writing and inconsistent acting. 

I don't think Tate ever anticipated the ins and outs of being with someone in April's line of work, and he didn't particularly like it. When she got hurt, though, is when he actively wanted her to find something else. I didn't look at it as him wanting to control her; at first, he wanted to spend more time with her, then he wanted her to remove herself from what he saw as a dangerous situation. When TB entered the mix, he operated from (what I saw as) a place solely devoted to wanting to protect her and keep her safe and well. For her part, she tried to explain her POV to him a time or two, but she never seemed to take his concerns seriously and certainly wasn't ever willing to try to compromise (then and at points going forward).

When the baby storyline started, she was all about it, even at the possible expense of her own health and heedless of Tate's concerns for her well-being. However, that quickly devolved to April acting in a way that was totally counter to that, especially given the serious issues that had already arisen: she took the unnecessary shifts, she didn't give a thought to her nutrition and how the lack thereof would impact the baby, etc. It's not as though anyone expected her to totally turn her life around, abandon her job and responsibilities, etc. It was the fact that after the initial high drama re: the baby, she never even stopped to consider other options or ramifications when she made those decisions. 

When she essentially blew off Tate's gesture of going across town to go to lunch with her, that was a symptom of the overall ginormous problem: for all the talk about how Tate always wanted to be in control, it was April who was in control of everything and never viewed Tate as an actual partner and never seemed to give much thought to his thoughts and feelings. That she didn't even let him know when she was first told about the baby's fate kind of said it all.  

So both were painted as being in the wrong at various points, in various ways, but again, that was due to the writing not being terribly consistent, and I'd also chalk it up to Yaya's performances - she very rarely seemed (to me, at any rate) to play it as though April really loved or respected Tate; all too often, she made April cold, uncompromising, exasperated, and as though Tate was talking to a brick wall when he tried to express his worries to her. Had she added more nuance into those scenes, it might have played differently.

As it is, though, I'm joining the group who finds April to be self-centered to a fault. A big fault. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

So both were painted as being in the wrong at various points, in various ways, but again, that was due to the writing not being terribly consistent, and I'd also chalk it up to Yaya's performances - she very rarely seemed (to me, at any rate) to play it as though April really loved or respected Tate; all too often, she made April cold, uncompromising, exasperated, and as though Tate was talking to a brick wall when he tried to express his worries to her. Had she added more nuance into those scenes, it might have played differently.

True. The inconsistency with this pairing lies with the writing, but also with the acting. This season, they seemed to be taking steps to break them up. April got TB, then she got pregnant, then the two got engaged, and they didn't seem to plan for any future with the two of them. They set up their breakup, but since Tate's barely been seen, he got to be the bad guy since they seemed to need a bad guy that wasn't April, since she's a main character. Tate definitely isn't the best guy. He did ask her to quit a few times, not realizing how important April's job was to her, and he did seem to get overly upset. But April's lack of concern seemed less about her being independent and more like her trying to make the decisions without Tate, her partner. She seemed to know it all without considering that Tate was not in the medical field, so he didn't have all the information, nor did April try to explain it to him. She huffed about it and that was about the extent of their communication. 

I won't fault April for her immediate reaction after finding out the baby was dead. Different people grieve in different ways, and I think April just wanted to distract herself until after work. If she had called Tate right then and there, then she'd have to deal with that loss and I think part of her brain was protecting her from that. She seemed to have called him right after she was done, so he could be there. But other than that, it's both of them at fault, along with the poor writing with their relationship. 

Then again, the only actors I think are good on this show are Colin Donnell (and wife Patti), S. Epatha Merkerson, Brian Tee, Oliver Platt, and Marlyne Barrett. Oh, Ato Essandoh is doing a great job. Everyone else is either mediocre or bad. 

[weathered1]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I won't fault April for her immediate reaction after finding out the baby was dead. Different people grieve in different ways, and I think April just wanted to distract herself until after work. If she had called Tate right then and there, then she'd have to deal with that loss and I think part of her brain was protecting her from that. She seemed to have called him right after she was done, so he could be there. But other than that, it's both of them at fault, along with the poor writing with their relationship. 

Then again, the only actors I think are good on this show are Colin Donnell (and wife Patti), S. Epatha Merkerson, Brian Tee, Oliver Platt, and Marlyne Barrett. Oh, Ato Essandoh is doing a great job. Everyone else is either mediocre or bad. 

I see your point re: the immediate aftermath of the baby's death. Normally, I'd give April a pass on that. Given everything that's been talked about, though, I found it to be less her way of trying to keep the grief at bay, and more her staying true to her pattern of behavior where Tate was concerned (or a combination of the two). At the end of the day, it seems to me that all that matters to April are her feelings, her wants, and everything else is a ways down on her list of priorities. 

I wholeheartedly agree with your take on the actors. Every one you singled out is head and shoulders above the rest. I find Nick Gehlfuss to be wildly uneven in his performances, which is not good when so much of what his character says and does already makes him less than likable. Rachel DiPillo has had some good moments, but there's a lack of consistency there, too, imo. Torrey DeVitto is . . .  wow. Again, when the show first started, I didn't think she was that bad, but her work has really gone downhill to the point where she's made Natalie virtually unwatchable for me. Making matters worse is that when she and Gehlfuss are in scenes together, they tend to bring out the worst in each other, which is something else that makes the Halstead/Manning thing disastrous. 

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, scribe95 said:

Obviously Tate didn't want her to work even before the pregnancy so that's a strike against him.

Why?  Is it wrong to prefer that your spouse/significant other not work?  Is it wrong to suggest that they give up the job, if you think they would be better off doing so?  Or that the relationship would be better off?

I don't see anything wrong with suggesting to your SO that they quit their job, any more than it would be wrong to suggest that they cut their hair or change their clothes.  Naturally, they don't have to agree with you, or comply, any more than April agreed with Tate or complied with his suggestions.

I do note that April never seemed to consider any of Tate's suggestions for an instant.  With April it was always her way, no discussion necessary.  That of course, would be her right.  But to suggest that Tate was at fault for expressing his wishes?  Can't agree.

[WendyCR72]

39 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Why?  Is it wrong to prefer that your spouse/significant other not work?  Is it wrong to suggest that they give up the job, if you think they would be better off doing so?  Or that the relationship would be better off?

I don't see anything wrong with suggesting to your SO that they quit their job, any more than it would be wrong to suggest that they cut their hair or change their clothes.

I see plenty wrong with it. Sure, relationships require compromise, but asking someone to give up a job they may enjoy, cutting hair or changing clothes I think falls on the one asking having issues. The way I see it, a person knows going into a relationship what the other is about. Or, at the very least, they should.

If someone makes demands to change a person, what does that say when they can't or won't love the person they claim to "as is"? Sure, maybe the clothes and hair issue can be waived away if it is for professional-related reasons, i.e. a career/job, but to request it just because? That irritates me.

I mean, if there is an issue, a la a person has a drug or alcohol issue? Hell yes, step in. But the above just smacks of "control", to me. Not outright concern.

[athelyna]

Is there a team neither April nor Tate are bad people, they were just fundamentally incompatible and probably should have realized it sooner?  Even before she got pregnant Tate asked about her cutting down on her work, but I didn't read it as him being some evil controlling monster, just being a guy who wanted to actually spend time with his girlfriend/fiancee, while April is someone who views her work as her biggest priority.  There probably are plenty of people out there who worked extremely long, odd hours and chose to cut back once they got involved in a serious relationship, and there are plenty of people who work jobs involving long, odd hours who found a partner who doesn't mind them working those hours.  I don't think either is necessarily bad, it's just a matter of finding a partner who has similar priorities, and in this case April and Tate have had different priorities almost from the start.  I do think the writers could have handled it better, but I also think this isn't the April and Tate show, so we haven't seen every single minute of their day to day relationship, so who knows if April blowing off lunch is a one time thing that Tate was getting overly upset about or if we are supposed to infer it's something she regularly does and this time was the straw on the camel's back.

Dr. Wheeler's opening scene was nicely shot, but I didn't really care that much because I recall almost everyone of his scenes being him screwing up, being drunk at work, or asking Reese about drugs and therapy, so it wasn't that shocking.   

[weathered1]

I think both sides of the argument have merit, as does the middle ground. For me, what it boils down to is that, even with as often as Tate expressed his desire that she quit the job - either for her benefit, the baby's, or yes, even his own - she shut him down. On one hand, she was sticking up for herself, as she should've. On the other hand, even though they had the same conversation seemingly a thousand times, every time he brought up her job, she shut him out and didn't even listen to his POV. (And no, I'm not saying she should've given in and let him have his way, by any means.)

To me, if he had really wanted to "control" her, he wouldn't have made the same plea (or demand, as some see it) umpteen times. He never gave her ultimatums or tried to exhibit control in any another way. Yes, he should've made his peace with her job a long, long time ago and if he couldn't have done that, he should've ended things. By the same token, if she'd actually listened to what he had to say (instead of tuning him out the second she heard him start to talk about her job) and had a substantive conversation with him about it where she stayed true to who she was but also didn't outright dismiss his concerns (as she was prone to do), then perhaps she could've put his mind at ease or they both could've decided that they shouldn't be together when all of this first began. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by weathered1

[Netfoot]

33 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

If someone makes demands to change a person, what does that say when they can't or won't love the person they claim to "as is"? Sure, maybe the clothes and hair issue can be waived away if it is for professional-related reasons, i.e. a career/job, but to request it just because? That irritates me.

First, I never said anything about making demands.  And I said that April didn't have to agree to any of tate's suggestions and was free to decide.  But what could be wrong with a husband saying, "Honey, why don't you try a shorter hairstyle?"  Or, "You never wear red and I think you'd look fabulous in red!"  Or even "You work too hard, and we don't need the money, so why not quit your job, and focus on your watercolours?"  

I can't see anything wrong in suggesting a change (as opposed to demanding a change) to your SO.

[statsgirl]

If I recall correctly, Tate suggested she quit/do less three times:  when they first got engaged; when she was pregnant and the TB flared up and she had to be on the heavy duty meds; and when she took on a double shift in her second trimester. Those don't seem unreasonable to me.  The latter two were also about the baby's health rather than making  April into someone else.  Would she have pulled back on workafter the baby was born or would she have expected Nate to pick up the slack?  Babies don't fit into convenient schedules, except maybe for Manning's.

1 hour ago, weathered1 said:

To me, if he had really wanted to "control" her, he wouldn't have made the same plea (or demand, as some see it) umpteen times. He never gave her ultimatums or tried to exhibit control in any another way. Yes, he should've made his peace with her job a long, long time ago and if he couldn't have done that, he should've ended things. By the same token, if she'd actually listened to what he had to say (instead of tuning him out the second she heard him start to talk about her job) and had a substantive conversation with him about it where she stayed true to who she was but also didn't outright dismiss his concerns (as she was prone to do), then perhaps she could've put his mind at ease or they both could've decided that they shouldn't be together when all of this first began. 

I think it's important to remember that he didn't try to control her in any way except this (which I don't see as trying to control her) nor did he get abusive when they were fighting, either physically or emotionally.  I'm on Team Mismatched.

But I also see April as entitled around her importance of being a nurse and that's not just with Nate but also with Maggie in Heart Matters.  She should find a doctor to marry and either enjoy her position as Dr. X's wife or stay childless.

[spunky]

On 3/19/2017 at 5:15 PM, Artsda said:

April was always self centered. It was always what she wanted and Tate had to follow along. The fact he would even come all the way to the hospital across town just to eat with her, yet should couldn't even bother to let him know she had no time. Showed how self centered she was.

The not eating well and always on her feet is something they showed every episode since the pregnancy plot started. It was on going. Always agreeing to work extra and not thinking of the baby at all. When she's the one on insisted on keeping it. It's not a shock she lost it considering she didn't take care of herself and I think they should have shown Tate as the one blaming her and dumping her. Instead of it again being her being the one to end things.

I really do think that she forgot to call him. I also think she was trying to figure out how to end their relationship. The day that she did the extra shift Maggie asked her to, if I'm not mistaken Maggie is her superior, most people don't say no to the person above them. They were not a good match for each other, so I'm happy they broke up.

[Fireball]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:57 PM, BooksRule said:

The opening scene was chilling, because the resident was so casual about the whole thing, but it would have been ten times more effective if we hadn't seen him jump in the preview after last week's episode.  

^This so much. I can not understand why in the world they put Wheeler's suicide in last weeks preview! It really ruined the opening scene; I mean anyone who had seen last weeks preview knew exactly what was coming.

 

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:15 PM, statsgirl said:

I would have been more affected by Wheeler's death if I had known anything at all about Wheeler. I know the episode was supposed to be an exploration of how the suicide affects the members of the hospital but it was like an intellectual exercise to me because Wheeler was such an unknown. When Gant died on ER, I cared.

I completely agree. I feel that Wheeler was only introduced so they could say " a recurring character dies"!!! His death would have had so much more impact if we as the viewers had actually known something about him.

 

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:43 PM, LittleIggy said:

On a morbid note, wouldn't Wheeling have been more smashed up looking?

I had the same thought. IMO Wheeler looked to good for a guy who jumped off the 10th floor. It was the 10th floor right?

[FnkyChkn34]

16 hours ago, Fireball said:

^This so much. I can not understand why in the world they put Wheeler's suicide in last weeks preview! It really ruined the opening scene; I mean anyone who had seen last weeks preview knew exactly what was coming.

I knew exactly what was coming, and I hadn't seen the preview.  I don't think they were looking for the shock element for viewers.