S01.E10: No Place Like Home

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, JustS said:

Maybe Aunt Em's stained fingers was a symbol indicating Dorothy wasn't done with Oz or Oz isn't through with her.  At least that's how I saw it. It was unexpected for me... 

On another show, the episode would have ended with Aunt Em in the cellar filled with gadgets and a secret tunnel to Oz and she has Karen clamped onto an operating table.

[MissLucas]

Well, any notion of a stringent plot (not to mention denouement) crumbled to dust like those stone giants. Plot holes and dangling plots abound yet there's no arguing how beautiful that show was. The Pietà-inspired shot of Dorothy and Lucas, East crouching over Dorothy and Lucas, all the glorious steampunk in Eve and the inspired use of Gaudi architecture are memorable even if a season 2 will never emerge.

[mjc570]

I'd definitely watch a season 2 if (1) it's set entirely in Oz; (2) there is no Dorothy (unless they get another actress and better writers); and (3) Toto gets the respect and attention he deserves.

Agree that it certainly was a  beautiful show, just stunning visually.

[Suzysite]

Let's hope if there is a season 2, Return to Oz spares us scenes of electroshock therapy like the 80s movie had.   Emerald City seems fairly sane next to that scary mess.

[formerlyfreedom]

So much about this show leaves me with questions. It does seem unlikely we'll get a second season, so I'm just going to put the most important question here now;

HOW DO WE GET OLIVER JACKSON-COHEN BACK ON MY TV SCREEN WEEKLY? Twice a week would be better, but I'd be happy with once a week. Thank you.

[jhlipton]

16 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

From Dorothy's face we cut to Emerald City where we see the other giant, not crumbling, but awakening.  Perhaps what confused you is that there's some debris falling from this giant, but that's only natural, since the thing is starting to move after years of being frozen.  It's covered in dust, and whatnot

I think the dust falling may have been a mistake, because it looked to me very much like its crumbling counterpart.

10 hours ago, phoenics said:

I think what I'm unsure of is whether Auntie Em was really getting that from cracking walnuts (does that actually happen?)

Maybe someone is a fan of the Dick Van Dyke Show?

8 hours ago, djinn said:

Perhaps leave out some of the early West brothel scenes,

I really didn't care for the brothel parts -- fantasy writers just love brothels without actually thinking about the women who work there.

===============================

All-in-all, a beautiful mess.  If they had spent as much time and effort on the plot as they did on the visuals, it would have been awesome.

=============================
When i saw Toto at the end, he looked like he was taking a dump.  An appropriate end-comment for this show.

Edited March 5, 2017 by jhlipton
Who's a good --- ewwwww -- boy?

[alaynestone]

15 hours ago, Suzysite said:

There was a scientist named Roberto who is supposed to be Dorothy's dad.   I assume he is Hispanic, so that might explain Dorothy's looks.   

http://emeraldcity.wikia.com/wiki/Roberto

Oh, yeah - I remembered him.  I suppose my question was more - are we supposed to believe that the Wizard was telling the truth to Dorothy about him being her father?  He did lie and originally say that Karen was her mother.  Who's to say that Roberto really is her father?  Did Jane seem to be even interested in him in the flashbacks on a romantic level?  It seemed that Karen was in a relationship with him, not Jane.

8 hours ago, djinn said:

It almost seems to me that Ozma had latent magic of her own that was very powerful and that was wakened by drinking East's spells. I haven't read the books and this is not the place for book discussions, but wasn't her mother extremely magical? In the show Ozma has managed to show a mass audience true past events and selectively erased lifetimes of memories from people. 

I've been suspecting that Tip/Ozma has her own magic too.  She's taken to doing magic pretty naturally - when she first stopped the witches from harming West, that one witch said "base magic", which was my first clue.  And yeah, she has done some pretty impressive magic.

Spoiler

Yes, in the books Ozma's mother is the fairy goddess Laurline.  Laurline is the fairy who turned the world of Oz into a magical world in the first place - so her being Ozma's mother pretty much makes Ozma really powerful.  Ozma is also half fairy.

Maybe she doesn't even really have East's magic?  Didn't West say that drinking the spells had never been done before?  Perhaps any normal person who had attempted to do that would have just died - but maybe because Tip/Ozma has her own magic, drinking the spells just awakened it in her and saved her from death when drinking East' magic?  I like that better than her and Dorothy sharing East's magic anyway - which kinda doesn't make sense.

Edited March 5, 2017 by alaynestone

[walnutqueen]

I don't know much, but I do know I don't want this to be The End.

I love (loved?) this show.

And I just watched an episode of Dr. Jeff, Rocky Mountain Vet, tending to a bunch of rescued puppy mill dogs.  There was a German Shephard cowering in the back of his enclosure, totally shut down.  I cried "Oh, no, Toto!".  I want those ruby red gauntlet gloves for just a little while, so I can make all animal abusers SUFFER.

Then I want another season of this lovely little mess.

[LittleIggy]

2 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I don't know much, but I do know I don't want this to be The End.

I love (loved?) this show.

And I just watched an episode of Dr. Jeff, Rocky Mountain Vet, tending to a bunch of rescued puppy mill dogs.  There was a German Shephard cowering in the back of his enclosure, totally shut down.  I cried "Oh, no, Toto!".  I want those ruby red gauntlet gloves for just a little while, so I can make all animal abusers SUFFER.

Me, too, sister! Shove them all into little wire cages for the rest of their miserable lives! 

[MurdockCader]

  13 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

That doesn't compute. If the Cardinal Witches knew that the Beast was trapped in the Prison of the Abject their behavior would've been very different. West for instance, would've spent every waking moment torturing the shit out of the guy. 

Also remember that the Beast was freely operating in Oz while the guy (who is named Roquat in the credits) was still trapped in the prison. He killed those three prostitutes to taunt the Wizard. In my opinion, this indicates that the beast took possession of Roquat after he was freed.

The assumption these characters do things to reach their goals seems highly questionable to me.  West's refusal to liberate "Roquat" for instance makes little or no sense. Everyone else was freed. Nahara was merely too close to death to leave by herself. The notion skinless man was possessed suffers from the problem that possessing a prisoner makes no sense. If you assume the prisoner was the Beast and his ability to at least possess someone from within was suppressed by East, that at least makes sense. The witches didn't hang themselves until East was dead. I suppose you could just say that West just felt like only women were worth freeing and obviously a man would deserve to stay in prison...but that sort of analysis verges on seeing Emerald City as some sort of demented parody of "feminism." 

I thought West only released the prisoners who were witches. Leaving the sick and dying was a cover story I'm not sure if the prisoners knew much about each other. Since the man had been in the prison before Nahara got there, she may have assumed that he was a bad guy who deserved to be in the Prison of the Abject.

I don't think any of the witches or the prisoners had realized the the flayed man was the Beast Forever. East knew, and the knowledge died with her. (Side note: since witches can kill witches, they can kill themselves. The gun only worked because East shot herself in the head.)

Azureowl, thank you! Roquat is one of the names used by the Nome King, who is a recurring major villain in the books. All season I've been hoping to see him pop up. Having the Nome King be the Beast Forever is very satisfying.

[djinn]

32 minutes ago, alaynestone said:

Maybe she doesn't even really have East's magic?  Didn't West say that drinking the spells had never been done before?  Perhaps any normal person who had attempted to do that would have just died - but maybe because Tip/Ozma has her own magic, drinking the spells just awakened it in her and saved her from death when drinking East' magic?  I like that better than her and Dorothy sharing East's magic anyway - which kinda doesn't make sense.

I like this scenario much better too. It makes much more sense that drinking East's spells made her own magic rush out to save her. Also, all the witches very quickly bowed down to Ozma, suggesting they sensed something very powerful and magical in her.

[alaynestone]

3 minutes ago, djinn said:

I like this scenario much better too. It makes much more sense that drinking East's spells made her own magic rush out to save her. Also, all the witches very quickly bowed down to Ozma, suggesting they sensed something very powerful and magical in her.

Right, I got that too.  Perhaps Mombi also did something to Tip/Ozma to hide her magic from her - and then drinking East's spells undid that.

[walnutqueen]

15 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Me, too, sister! Shove them all into little wire cages for the rest of their miserable lives! 

Or, to stay marginally on topic, we could go all Dorothy on their asses and "crucify" them.

[MarySNJ]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

About Lucas - I'm not sure how he got to use the machine or if he did at all.  In Kansas, only 10 minutes passed while Dorothy spent 10 weeks in Oz.  I think a LOT of time will have passed by the time Dorothy gets back to Oz (if there's a S2).

I'd say about 2-ish days after Dorothy crashed into Oz in the police car, Elizabeth told the Wizard that the beast forever would arrive in 8 days when the two moons became one.  I think Dorothy was in Oz about 10 days. If that's right 10 days in Oz = 10 minutes on Earth. On the other hand,  20 years in Kansas seems to be the same 20 years passing in Oz...and I have no idea how much time would have passed between When Dorothy crashed back in the wreckage of Karen's trailer and Lucas and Toto arrived to bring her back to Oz. 

[queenanne]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:18 PM, Senna said:

Well ... if there were to actually be a second season, then this might've been all right.  Ozma took over with West, Frank died, the true Beast Forever appeared.  Jack, Eamonn, and Roan have all been broken down and are ripe for new chapters.  Glinda and West seemed like they might make an alliance ... maybe.  But since I don't think there will be a second season (terrible ratings), and since they didn't even make any attempt whatsoever to tie things up, then this was kind of not great.  What was the point of telling us Karen was Dorothy's mother only for it to be Jane instead?  Why couldn't Frank have just said it was Jane in the first place?  Who then is Dorothy's father?  (If it even matters.)  How did things go down when Karen and Dorothy first got sent back to Kansas by Jane?  Who is the Beast Forever?  A skinless dude who can turn into a dragon thing, yeah, but *who* is he?  Why was he there?  Where did he come from?  Who is Mother South?  How did Frank take over Oz in the first place?  How did Mombi end up with Ozma?  I could go on and on ... but I guess we'll never know *sigh*

Let's not forget, "first East doesn't have any idea what "a gun" is or which end is which"; and then the head of the Wizard's guard (?) scant episodes later, knows allllllll about guns and can talk about them like they've been in his life forever (if it's "technology Oz has", then it should be "technology Oz has". Not "technology the soldiers know about, and the supreme magickal beings of the land, nothing").

I'm not surprised Jane is Dorothy's mother because of the advance maternal seeding they did with Langwidere (aside: is she "Languid Ear" because she drawls?) and Jane's complaint to the Wizard that Langwidere is "just a girl" (though I was wondering in the opposite direction; why Jane would say that if we're really supposed to think Langwidere is forty-something IRL). I mean, I hadn't guessed it, but I'm not surprised.

19 hours ago, Tim Thomason said:

As I understood it, this was supposed to be a "10 hour miniseries event", so I assumed that it'd be a self-contained story with maybe a final hook in case of a second season. Like the original movie. I was wrong.

I'm assuming that the Wizard sent his men on a suicide mission, probably lying to them about his ability to bring them back, and probably with the instruction to kill Dorothy as well. Then again, maybe the twister that took Dorothy was sent by West or even Glinda (or her acolytes?) or perhaps Jane's machine had a retrieval function of some sort.

Jane's supernatural steampunk abilities need to be explained. I mean, maybe she's an unknown Ozian (or Evian) in the first place, since she apparently built the first machine in the '90s as well that sent them there.or better yet, West, should've done this at her behest.

Once upon a time I was told any "miniseries/limited series event" language, is nonsensical network hedging its bets trying to make it sound "special" like a Hot Topic exclusive Funko; because any "miniseries event" is really auditioning to be a second-season pickup.  Which makes a lot of sense, because really, what are the producers/network going to say if it's received well?  "No, we hadn't planned any more story and that sounds like too much work to come up with some.  Let's just turn down this renewal offer."  No, if a series is well received, there's no such thing as a "limited series".

Sadly I'd forgotten that "Jane" was "Jane" by the time the plot rolled back around - I kid you not.  I had not remembered she was one of the scientists,when she was hovering over tables fixing things.  I only remembered when she called the Wizard "Frank", that they had in fact known each other and that she was a Kansas refugee.  The cast and visits were too bloated and spread apart.  I was delighted to see Ojo, but then the second time around so many weeks had elapsed since I thought about him, I couldn't care what happened to his wife.

Edited March 5, 2017 by queenanne

[WearyTraveler]

I've been thinking that perhaps Jane and Karen both are Dorothy's mother.  Maybe it was Jane's egg implanted into Karen's womb, which would explain why Karen was the one who was pregnant and why Frank thought Karen was the mother.

Also, maybe Jane suggested that Karen tattoo her hand so that she would have a way to convince Dorothy to listen to her, like Jane did in the finale.

[BooBear]

I really enjoyed this much more than I thought I would but I do wonder if this was some other Sci-Fi script that they fit into the Oz theme. Mostly because it really felt like Dorothy was not the main character and mostly an afterthought. Tip / Osma was the main driver of the story imho.  They also seemed strained to bring life to the classic Scarecrow, Tin Man, and Cowardly Lion... 

[dargosmydaddy]

Jack! My poor little badass Tinman... And Jane just left him torn apart in that field. (Not to mention Langwidere is laying faceless on her table... I wonder if the Beast Forever allows work release for Jane?)

Overall I thought the series was unevenly paced, with a lot of holes in character development and motivation as well as plot. I started the series loving Lucas and Dorothy, and by the end I felt like I didn't really know either of them. Meanwhile my Jack love grew exponentially, and then he was hardly in the finale at all, and we never did get a second Jack/ Tip reunion... 

But damned if I don't still really love this show... Here's hoping it gets a season two somehow or somewhere.

[call me ishmael]

I think that the creators were too confident that they would get a second season.  They finally got to explicitly sending the scarecrow, the cowardly lion, and the tin man off on the road that Dorothy will have to travel at the very end of the show so it seems like the whole first season was setting up the elimination of the wizard and moving onto the Beast Forever.  But they were so all over the place that they probably didn't get the ratings they needed to continue.

I did like the closing scene with its throwback to the movie and Dorothy thinking that it was all a dream (i am assuming that the walnut business was to make her think that was why she saw the black lines on West's hands?).

The thing I really don't get is, if in fact it was East who had imprisoned the Beast forever, why did she put up with the Wizard claiming that it was all his doing?  I would think that would have been a pretty good card to play to keep him in line.  

Personally I would believe Glinda as the assistant to the Beast forever.  Boy is she a nightmare.

[Camera One]

I've been thinking that perhaps Jane and Karen both are Dorothy's mother.

I thought that too, but then Frank told Dorothy that Karen was not her mother.  

[alaynestone]

1 hour ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Jack! My poor little badass Tinman... And Jane just left him torn apart in that field. (Not to mention Langwidere is laying faceless on her table... I wonder if the Beast Forever allows work release for Jane?)

Overall I thought the series was unevenly paced, with a lot of holes in character development and motivation as well as plot. I started the series loving Lucas and Dorothy, and by the end I felt like I didn't really know either of them. Meanwhile my Jack love grew exponentially, and then he was hardly in the finale at all, and we never did get a second Jack/ Tip reunion... 

I love Jack too!  What little we saw of him in the finale showed what a badass he can be.  Poor guy just got beat on though this entire season.

If we do get a second season, I'm really interested to see his reaction at Tip being Ozma and their inevitable reunion. 

[WearyTraveler]

I think they should have explained the Beast Forever a little better, or perhaps reinforce some of the information the characters gave via exposition.

The characters explained that the BF takes many different forms, and it doesn't even need to be a creature.  The last time "it" came it was in the form of a huge wave of water, which drowned the witches and killed Lady Ev's parents.  Apparently, Emerald City was saved because of the stone giants.  This time, the BF has a heart, and so, it can be killed/stopped in a different way.

I don't think any of the witches knew that the guy in the prison was the BF, otherwise, why would they not kill it? or post guards around it?  It seems to me that the BF is an entity that can possess/invade/control/take the shape off something or someone and that when the characters say it can't be killed, it's because one form can be killed, but the BF will eventually come back.  For the science-minded, like Frank, it's the principle that energy can't be destroyed, only transformed.  So, in every iteration, this energy that is the BF transforms into something different.  It just takes it a while to do so and only those that can read energy (like the witches or the council), can even attempt to know when it will come and what it will look like.

16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

 

I thought that too, but then Frank told Dorothy that Karen was not her mother.  

You are correct, that slipped my mind.  Perhaps Frank did know about the arrangement.

Edited March 5, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

I think they should have explained the Beast Forever a little better, or perhaps reinforce some of the information the characters gave via exposition.

The characters explained that the BF takes many different forms, and it doesn't even need to be a creature.  The last time "it" came it was in the form of a huge wave of water, which drowned the witches and killed Lady Ev's parents.  Apparently, Emerald City was saved because of the stone giants.  This time, the BF has a heart, and so, it can be killed/stopped in a different way.

I don't think any of the witches knew that the guy in the prison was the BF, otherwise, why would they not kill it? or post guards around it?  It seems to me that the BF is an entity that can possess/invade/control/take the shape off something or someone and that when the characters say it can't be killed, it's because one form can be killed, but the BF will eventually come back.  For the science-minded, like Frank, it's the principle that energy can't be destroyed, only transformed.  So, in every iteration, this energy that is the BF transforms into something different.  It just takes it a while to do so and only those that can read energy (like the witches or the council), can even attempt to know when it will come and what it will look like.

You are correct, that slipped my mind.  Perhaps Frank did know about the arrangement.

I usually complain about too much exposition on a show but in this series I feel like there wasn't enough. The Beast Forever was one of several aspects of the story that left a lot of questions. "It comes because it must" is about all we got. I assume that if there is a season 2 (unlikely) we will find out more. 

Frank certainly know about the arrangement. When Dorothy asked him about her mother Karen Chapman, he didn't seem confused at all. Another detail not explained, but I assumed that Frank, the new Dictator of Oz, refused to let Jane leave because (a) he needed her knowledge and skills and (b) to be spiteful because she was never kind to him, but agreed that baby Dorothy and Karen (who probably spurned him after he confessed to causing the accident that killed their colleague/Dorothy's father Roberto) would be safer out of Oz and went along with the plot because it was necessary for legal reasons to have the birth mother be the one to make arrangements for Dorothy's welfare.  That's my head canon, unless/until we get a season 2. 

[Machiabelly]

So the Beast Forever could come as say...a giant mashmallow man?

[WearyTraveler]

2 minutes ago, Machiabelly said:

So the Beast Forever could come as say...a giant mashmallow man?

LOL!!! I guess it could, in which case..... who you gonna call?

[Cthulhudrew]

Worst part about that out of the blue "Dorothy's mom" swerve is that it means Gina Bellman was just a glorified cameo the entire season.

[kajack84]

Anyone have any idea where the final scenes in the last episode of Dorothy back home in Kansas were actually filmed?

[MarySNJ]

8 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Jack! My poor little badass Tinman... And Jane just left him torn apart in that field. (Not to mention Langwidere is laying faceless on her table... I wonder if the Beast Forever allows work release for Jane?)

Overall I thought the series was unevenly paced, with a lot of holes in character development and motivation as well as plot. I started the series loving Lucas and Dorothy, and by the end I felt like I didn't really know either of them. Meanwhile my Jack love grew exponentially, and then he was hardly in the finale at all, and we never did get a second Jack/ Tip reunion... 

But damned if I don't still really love this show... Here's hoping it gets a season two somehow or somewhere.

Speaking of plot holes, how is it possible that Nahara had children with Ojo if Mother South was the only witch who could conceive? Or is that only for "Cardinal" witches? Or, are some regular mortals able to perform magic? 

[theatremouse]

I thought the implication was she could have non-witch children, but only Mother South could produce more witches? Or something.

[jhlipton]

23 hours ago, MurdockCader said:

The gun only worked because East shot herself in the head

The gun worked because black women are not allowed to have major roles (even when they are billed as such), especially in sf and fantasy.  Why couldn't West have been played by a black woman? 

22 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

Or something.

"Or something" was the theme of this show. 

[Snarkette]

Right art direction, wrong story, crap characters. Yay for the locations and weird visuals. Boo for everything else, including leaving Toto behind just for Roan and puppers to show up at the last second. I hated everyone except Toto and West.

This is one I'd rather see go than return for a second season.

[MarySNJ]

8 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I thought the implication was she could have non-witch children, but only Mother South could produce more witches? Or something.

That makes sense, but apparently Glinda couldn't even conceive non-witch children, or so she says in that conversation with Roan.  'Or something' it is. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Emerald City Clicks Its Heels Together Three Times

There's no place like home as the weird Wizard of Oz mash-up reaches the end of its rainbow.

[DesertCyclist]

On 3/5/2017 at 9:18 PM, jhlipton said:

The gun worked because black women are not allowed to have major roles (even when they are billed as such), especially in sf and fantasy.  Why couldn't West have been played by a black woman? 

"Or something" was the theme of this show. 

Wait, isn't Jordan Loughran, the actress who plays Tip, a person of color?

Speaking of East, I love her portrayal here: