S05.E14: The Sin-Eater

[Starfish35]

49 minutes ago, yellowfred said:

Also, since Dinah is now wearing a mask that looks exactly like Sara's old one and using a bo staff like Sara did/does, is anyone going to tell her that the whole legacy she's carrying on didn't actually start with Laurel?  

Thank you! *shakes head*

7 minutes ago, johntfs said:

It feels like they kind of want to forget that Sara ever existed outside of Legends.

For my part I'm kind of wondering if Oliver's "become someone else, become something else" will end with him eating a bunch of spider-beasts, turning into a giant snake demon and trying to eat a high school.

Hahahahahahaha I love it. :)

[Midnight Lullaby]

24 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

So are you saying Thea should have found something to blackmail Susan with, but then still gotten her fired for plagiarism in case the blackmail didn't work? That seems cold. 

The alternative is risking for the whole team to go to jail or get killed since I imagine criminals can't wait to know their secret identities and who their families are and leave the city unprotected.

I also don't see the issue because that woman shouldn't have a career to begin with. Getting her fired means there's the chance someone that has an idea of what an ethical code is might be hired to report on SC.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

To be fair, he was welcoming her to his super-special anti-crime unit under his personal oversight (which is itself really odd and smacks of the Mayor having his own Secret Police).

Wait, she's on the ACU already? I completely missed that. Weren't those people supposed to be vetted? Who was supposed to vet Tinah? And how? Oh, yeah. Went off the grid for three years after bein undercover. Sure, she sounds stable, put her on an elite task force. 

[statsgirl]

I don't think Tinah's on the ACU yet.  It seemed to be the standard police swearing in ceremony, just with very  much fewer recruits.

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

Did Thea, and Moira too, really think she had no other choice, or did she not really bother looking for one? Don't get me wrong, Oliver should have listened to what everyone was telling him about Susan, but Oliver screwing up doesn't give anyone else an excuse for their own actions. 

@Morrigan2575 did a good analysis earlier in this thread why Thea didn't really have any other options.

I think the reference to Moira was wrt The Undertaking, where she felt she didn't have a choice because Malcolm had murdered her husband and son, rather than the deal with Samantha.

36 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Actually, blackmail is kind of what I meant. She created a false history of plagiarism, she could have framed Susan for other things as well and then told Susan that she would 'expose' her if she didn't drop the investigation into Oliver. Does that have risks? Yes, but before Susan was a shady reporter chasing a story who possibly could have been managed in some way. Now she's unemployed, angry, and probably embarrassed. That's not a good combination. 

Susan struck me as the kind of "I'm better than anyone else" arrogance that would have made her go after Oliver even harder if Thea had tried to blackmail her or stop her in any other way.  She would have been angry and embarrassed under any circumstances, and she was manipulative and Machiavellian from her first appearance.

[jay741982]

43 minutes ago, johntfs said:

It feels like they kind of want to forget that Sara ever existed outside of Legends.

For my part I'm kind of wondering if Oliver's "become someone else, become something else" will end with him eating a bunch of spider-beasts, turning into a giant snake demon and trying to eat a high school.

LoL nice Buffy reference!!

[AD35]

15 hours ago, finnaire said:

Hey, kicking Mr. Terrific when he’s already down?  Now, that’s just harsh! And hi-larious. He’s gonna eventually get the message that he really doesn’t belong on the street, right?  I mean, Kevlar is fine when it's all raining down bullets but whatcha gonna do when biyatches are all wailing on you?  And, let’s see, Wild Dong launches a flying tackle. Did he miss because the next thing I know he gets taken down by an arrow. In the back. Then there was the uselessness of the Pilgrim Stick.  Maybe it's only good for taking down turkeys.  All in all, that was like a clown fight.  GA took out two separate gangs of goons with two arrows. Explain to me again why he has need of this crack team.  And if you say, for the comedic relief then that is an acceptable answer because that was some comedy gold.

I liked this episode a lot.

 

If only if those 3 women could somehow come across James Olson aka Guardian and give him the same treatment

[Lantern7]

24 minutes ago, AD35 said:

 

If only if those 3 women could somehow come across James Olson aka Guardian and give him the same treatment

Might not work. Weren't James and Liza lovers in a previous life?

[RobertDeSneero]

15 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Does he still believe what? He actually DID kill a guy in October to keep his secret. There's nothing to believe. 

It doesn't make sense for Oliver to call Thea to task for obliterating Susan's career to keep his secret since he's actually MURDERED to keep it. He acted as if his delicate sensibilities were offended because she went all Moira on Susan when he's done much worse to keep the same thing hidden. 

 Does he believe that his secret is still worth killing to protect?  Especially if it involves killing someone who he doesn't see as an enemy?

People change.  Are you saying that Oliver isn't allowed to change?

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

 Does he believe that his secret is still worth killing to protect?  Especially if it involves killing someone who he doesn't see as an enemy?

People change.  Are you saying that Oliver isn't allowed to change?

Of course he can change, but what exactly is your point? Thea didn't kill anyone keep said secret? Oliver has - many times in the past (and as recently as a few months ago). So him asking her "who does that?" with regard to her getting Susan fired to keep his secret is hypocritical because, uh...he did much worse!  It doesn't matter if he still would - HE DID.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Of course he can change, but what exactly is your point? Thea didn't kill anyone keep said secret? Oliver has - many times in the past (and as recently as a few months ago). So him asking her "who does that?" with regard to her getting Susan fired to keep his secret is hypocritical because, uh...he did much worse!  It doesn't matter if he still would - HE DID.

I think this is one of those instances where it looks like the show has forgotten most of what has happened before an episode. Sure, usually it's been the first four seasons when it comes to S5, but now it's starting to be what happened this season too: zero mention of Felicity dating Billy when Oliver killing him comes up, the whole matter of guns from 513 to 514, Oliver's previous feelings about revealing his secret vs. his carelessness now and that "who does that?", etc. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[catrox14]

I've watched this episode a couple of times now because Oliver is bugging me.

There were words that Oliver said that I just don't believe are the way Oliver has spoken

When Susan was first asking if he was the Green Arrow and he smiled and laughed I was like "Who the hell is this guy"?

Then shortly thereafter when Susan came to whine about losing her job, he says "Well, just lay it on me. What's up?" WHEN THE HELL has Oliver Queen EVER said "Lay it on me" like it's the 70s or something.

I swear to gods, that is NOT OLIVER.

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think this is one of those instances where it looks like the show has forgotten most of what has happened before an episode. Sure, usually it's been the first four seasons when it comes to S5, but now it's starting to be what happened this season too: zero mention of Felicity dating Billy when Oliver killing him comes up, the whole matter of guns from 513 to 514, Oliver's previous feelings about revealing his secret vs. his carelessness now and that "who does that?", etc. 

Or...it's NOT!Oliver and HT is speaking for himself.

[way2interested]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I've watched this episode a couple of times now because Oliver is bugging me.

There were words that Oliver said that I just don't believe are the way Oliver has spoken

When Susan was first asking if he was the Green Arrow and he smiled and laughed I was like "Who the hell is this guy"?

Then shortly thereafter when Susan came to whine about losing her job, he says "Well, just lay it on me. What's up?" WHEN THE HELL has Oliver Queen EVER said "Lay it on me" like it's the 70s or something.

I swear to gods, that is NOT OLIVER.

I felt the same way. It just felt so...off. Like part of it felt like s4-esque Oliver but it mostly just felt so out of place casual. With those lines and the way that kiss between Oliver and Susan was positioned it almost felt like SA and the writers were trying to overcompensate for all of the other Oliver/Susan interactions where it looked like Oliver didn't want to be there.

[statsgirl]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There were words that Oliver said that I just don't believe are the way Oliver has spoken

When Susan was first asking if he was the Green Arrow and he smiled and laughed I was like "Who the hell is this guy"?

Then shortly thereafter when Susan came to whine about losing her job, he says "Well, just lay it on me. What's up?" WHEN THE HELL has Oliver Queen EVER said "Lay it on me" like it's the 70s or something.

Sorry, but I think this was a new writer and MG, WM and BFS didn't do their due diligence in looking over the scripts.

But I hope you're right and I'm wrong.  It would also explain the weird distance from Felicity all season.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I felt the same way. It just felt so...off. Like part of it felt like s4-esque Oliver but it mostly just felt so out of place casual. With those lines and the way that kiss between Oliver and Susan was positioned it almost felt like SA and the writers were trying to overcompensate for all of the other Oliver/Susan interactions where it looked like Oliver didn't want to be there.

I really wish I had a way to watch the Human Target episode again and compare SA's acting with that to now. But I don't know where the episode is that I don't have to pay to watch. LOL

[Carrie Ann]

I want to believe in the Oliver-locked-in-a-trunk theory, and not that this rules it out, but this episode was written by two novices. It was Barbara Bloom's first ever writing credit, and Jenny Lynn's second for Arrow. So some of the writing choices seeming off could just be chalked up to two writers who don't have much experience with these characters/this world/in general.

ETA: or ditto @statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

With those lines and the way that kiss between Oliver and Susan was positioned it almost felt like SA and the writers were trying to overcompensate for all of the other Oliver/Susan interactions where it looked like Oliver didn't want to be there.

They might have included that in an attempt to try to make the audience feel bad for Oliver/Susan with what followed with Thea getting her fired. They did seem to be trying to make Susan the victim. Only ... the previous episodes happened. The writers might forget. The fans don't. 

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Sorry, but I think this was a new writer and MG, WM and BFS didn't do their due diligence in looking over the scripts.

But I hope you're right and I'm wrong.  It would also explain the weird distance from Felicity all season.

Yeah, as @apinknightmare said, if he were HT trying to destroy Oliver's life, he wouldn't have had a sincere conversation with Thea.

If there's no massive info dropped next ep (I think the final sweeps ep?), such as a glimpse of realOliver in the trunk, I think that theory will be done. They wouldn't have the info drop in the final episodes and have effectively an entire season in which they intentionally make viewers hate the protagonist.

I really think that the writers are dumb and Neptunian, and Steve is having some kind of BTS issues that have robbed him of his acting ability.

Edited February 24, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

Come on, guys. Don't take this away from me with all your logic and crap :(

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, catrox14 said:

Come on, guys. Don't take this away from me with all your logic and crap :(

Hey, I hear ya. When @apinknightmare first specced that I was pretty happy. I really disliked his post-sex scene with the reporter.

(Also, I 1000% do not believe the writers are anywhere near subtle enough to put in odd turns of phrase intentionally to signal fakeOliver.)

[catrox14]

Okay here's my theory.

Maybe it's real!Oliver as the Green Arrow when he's out fighting and in the Arrow Cave (which might be why him and Felicity still have their little moments) and Human Target is Mayor!Arrow in a relationship with Susan for some...reason. 

[Chaser]

SA had said there was an episode that didn't feel like Arrow (or something to that effect), I had thought it was 5x13 but maybe it was this one.

[AyChihuahua]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Okay here's my theory.

Maybe it's real!Oliver as the Green Arrow when he's out fighting and in the Arrow Cave (which might be why him and Felicity still have their little moments) and Human Target is Mayor!Arrow in a relationship with Susan for some...reason. 

The problem is that the other people would mention stuff to realOliver that had happened with fakeOliver. And fakeOliver would be entirely perplexed and visibly behave as such. 

[statsgirl]

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

The problem is that the other people would mention stuff to realOliver that had happened with fakeOliver. And fakeOliver would be entirely perplexed and visibly behave as such. 

Not if it was a plan by realOliver to keep his enemies closer but still not sleep with her.

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Not if it was a plan by realOliver to keep his enemies closer but still not sleep with her.

So he's working with HT to have HT bang Susan while she thinks she's banging Oliver, which is, legally speaking, rape?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6080156/Policeman-impersonated-twin-brother-to-have-sex-with-his-girlfriend.html

I think that is incredibly unlikely.

Edited February 24, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[jay741982]

3 hours ago, AD35 said:

 

If only if those 3 women could somehow come across James Olson aka Guardian and give him the same treatment

I wish they could do it to the Show eater Mon-el

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Might not work. Weren't James and Liza lovers in a previous life?

Yes lol. Tara and Eggs

[finnaire]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I've watched this episode a couple of times now because Oliver is bugging me.

There were words that Oliver said that I just don't believe are the way Oliver has spoken

When Susan was first asking if he was the Green Arrow and he smiled and laughed I was like "Who the hell is this guy"?

Then shortly thereafter when Susan came to whine about losing her job, he says "Well, just lay it on me. What's up?" WHEN THE HELL has Oliver Queen EVER said "Lay it on me" like it's the 70s or something.

I swear to gods, that is NOT OLIVER.

Or...it's NOT!Oliver and HT is speaking for himself.

 At least when she started whining about losing her job he didn't say, "Hey, man, don't have a cow!"

Though I think I would prefer to relive the 70's, sadly, I think this is just the writers' attempt to show us what "all in" Oliver is like.

Edited February 24, 2017 by finnaire

[Tazmania]

17 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. And also not had her say she can't go public with what she knows now. 

What? She hasn't heard of wikileaks? 

Should have shared her info on Ollie with them, it would have blown like Hillary Clinton's email server 

[Midnight Lullaby]

52 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

What? She hasn't heard of wikileaks? 

Should have shared her info on Ollie with them, it would have blown like Hillary Clinton's email server 

I imagine she wants the credit..she wanted to break a big story, showing who Oliver is to the world was just a mean to an end or she would have given her material to someone else if what she wanted was for the truth to come out..maybe they can get her to back off offering to write her big scoop about something else..Felicity now can find out all sort of things.

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

So he's working with HT to have HT bang Susan while she thinks she's banging Oliver, which is, legally speaking, rape?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6080156/Policeman-impersonated-twin-brother-to-have-sex-with-his-girlfriend.html

I think that is incredibly unlikely.

It's not the same thing though.  That woman had been in a sexual relationship with one brother, and figured out that the guy who was there in the hot tub is not him because this one didn't have a particular tattoo that the guy she had been sleeping with did.  (He sounds like a real jerk too.)  In my scenario, Susan's relationship would have only been with HT, never with the real Oliver.  It's like if you think you're sleeping with a guy called Pete who is an accountant and you learn that his real name is Joe and he's a lawyer.  It's still the same guy but with a different identity.

But I agree that the scenario is highly unlikely.

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

It's not the same thing though.  That woman had been in a sexual relationship with one brother, and figured out that the guy who was there in the hot tub is not him because this one didn't have a particular tattoo that the guy she had been sleeping with did.  (He sounds like a real jerk too.)  In my scenario, Susan's relationship would have only been with HT, never with the real Oliver.  It's like if you think you're sleeping with a guy called Pete who is an accountant and you learn that his real name is Joe and he's a lawyer.  It's still the same guy but with a different identity.

But I agree that the scenario is highly unlikely.

She wouldn't think that HT's name is Oliver but it's actually Joe. She'd have been tricked by two men conspiring to make her think she's sexing up Oliver Queen, Mayor of Star City, but she's actually sexing up HT who is wearing a mask to look like Oliver Queen. That's rape. Oliver would be a knowing accomplice to rape. 

[dtissagirl]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 It's like if you think you're sleeping with a guy called Pete who is an accountant and you learn that his real name is Joe and he's a lawyer.  It's still the same guy but with a different identity.

I know nothing of actual law, but just last week I watched an episode of SVU in which the plot is this exactly -- Paula Marshall thought she was sleeping with the admission's dean of the university she wanted her kid to get into, it turns out the dude stole the dean's identity to fool desperate mothers into having sex with him -- and he was on trial for rape.

[Hiveminder]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I know nothing of actual law, but just last week I watched an episode of SVU in which the plot is this exactly -- Paula Marshall thought she was sleeping with the admission's dean of the university she wanted her kid to get into, it turns out the dude stole the dean's identity to fool desperate mothers into having sex with him -- and he was on trial for rape.

I'm pretty sure that tricking someone into having sex with you by making them think that you are a completely different actual real person and not just a name you made up is probably considered to be some degree of illegal, but even if it's not it's completely disgusting and I would never watch this show again. 

[Morrigan2575]

28 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I'm pretty sure that tricking someone into having sex with you by making them think that you are a completely different actual real person and not just a name you made up is probably considered to be some degree of illegal, but even if it's not it's completely disgusting and I would never watch this show again. 

Not in California...last I read.

BTW I think its a moot point since I really doubt MadEye HT has Oliver locked in a trunk somewhere. 

Oliver is Oliver in all of his stupid glory. When in doubt, remember MG is proud of the fact that they've gotten lots of mileage out of Oliver being an idiot.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

Okay, I give up, it wouldn't work.

42 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I know nothing of actual law, but just last week I watched an episode of SVU in which the plot is this exactly -- Paula Marshall thought she was sleeping with the admission's dean of the university she wanted her kid to get into, it turns out the dude stole the dean's identity to fool desperate mothers into having sex with him -- and he was on trial for rape.

If a real dean sleeps with stupid mothers by telling them that he will let their kids into the college but has no intention of doing so, is that rape?

If Susan Williams sleeps with Oliver Queen, telling him she cares about him and wants to make him feel better after all the problems he's having, but only does it so that she can get information to do an expose on him, is that rape?  It's getting him into bed by misrepresenting who she is (i.e. she's representing herself as someone who genuinely cares about him but she's only doing it for her career).

ETA:  that California case, wow.

Edited February 24, 2017 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Okay, I give up, it wouldn't work.

If a real dean sleeps with stupid mothers by telling them that he will let their kids into the college but has no intention of doing so, is that rape?

If Susan Williams sleeps with Oliver Queen, telling him she cares about him and wants to make him feel better after all the problems he's having, but only does it so that she can get information to do an expose on him, is that rape?  It's getting him into bed by misrepresenting who she is (i.e. she's representing herself as someone who genuinely cares about him but she's only doing it for her career).

That's not AT ALL the same situation. We're not talking about a guy telling a girl he loves her to get her to sleep with him. We're talking about having a completely different human being sub in for someone during sex. When I consent to sex I'm consenting to sex with that specific person...not someone wearing a mask to LOOK LIKE that specific person.

And in your dean hypothetical, btw, it's probably at least fraud.

[dtissagirl]

26 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If a real dean sleeps with stupid mothers by telling them that he will let their kids into the college but has no intention of doing so, is that rape?

If Susan Williams sleeps with Oliver Queen, telling him she cares about him and wants to make him feel better after all the problems he's having, but only does it so that she can get information to do an expose on him, is that rape?  It's getting him into bed by misrepresenting who she is (i.e. she's representing herself as someone who genuinely cares about him but she's only doing it for her career).

On SVU, it boiled down to consent -- Paula Marshall consented to having sex with Professor Whoever, but then it turned out it was Doucheface Asshat pretending to be the Prof, and she never consented to having sex with Doucheface.  That was the case.

Susan having sex with Oliver [the real one] for whatever reason is not rape because they both consented to having sex. Having ulterior motives, like gaining something from the other person after sex, isn't rape. It's just being super shitty garbage people.

But if Human Target is wearing his Oliver mask and having sex with Susan without her knowing it's not Oliver? Then it's the same thing as the SVU episode I mentioned. She consented to having sex with Oliver, not a dude wearing his face.

 

[statsgirl]

It seems to me that it's rape if

1. you have a pre-existing relationship with a person and someone else is pretending to be that person or
2. you have sex with a person in the understanding that you're going to be getting something and the other person is either unable (pretend dean) or refuses to give it (dean who says he will let in the kid but has no intention of doing so).

The only reason Susan slept with Oliver is for what information she could get from him (contrary to what Matt Mitovich wants to believe). So while it might technically be rape if it were HT who continued the relationship with her after she gave him her number, I still would have little sympathy for her.

[Starfish35]

Seems like this happens a lot on magic-type shows.  OUAT - Robin sleeps with Zelena because she's used magic to make herself look like his wife Marion.  Grimm - Nick sleeps with Adalind because she's used magic to make herself look like his longtime girlfriend Juliette.  BtVS - Riley sleeps with Faith because she's used magic to switch bodies with Buffy.  

Unfortunately it's never addressed as rape in any of these situations. :(

It seems like HT pretending to be Oliver would be the same situation, even without a pre-existing relationship between Oliver and Susan.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It seems to me that it's rape if

1. you have a pre-existing relationship with a person and someone else is pretending to be that person or
2. you have sex with a person in the understanding that you're going to be getting something and the other person is either unable (pretend dean) or refuses to give it (dean who says he will let in the kid but has no intention of doing so).

The only reason Susan slept with Oliver is for what information she could get from him (contrary to what Matt Mitovich wants to believe). So while it might technically be rape if it were HT who continued the relationship with her after she gave him her number, I still would have little sympathy for her.

Your hypothetical is legally rape. Oliver would be a knowing accomplice to rape. (Tbc, that would not be the case in every jurisdiction, but as a general criminal law principle, it would be.)

19 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Seems like this happens a lot on magic-type shows.  OUAT - Robin sleeps with Zelena because she's used magic to make herself look like his wife Marion.  Grimm - Nick sleeps with Adalind because she's used magic to make herself look like his longtime girlfriend Juliette.  BtVS - Riley sleeps with Faith because she's used magic to switch bodies with Buffy.  

Unfortunately it's never addressed as rape in any of these situations. :(

Rape, rape, and rape.

Another common example is Revenge of the Nerds, when the main nerd dresses as Darth Vader and tricks the cheerleader into sleeping with him bc her boyfriend had been dressed as Vader. That's rape.

Edited February 24, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[AyChihuahua]

31 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Susan having sex with Oliver [the real one] for whatever reason is not rape because they both consented to having sex. Having ulterior motives, like gaining something from the other person after sex, isn't rape. It's just being super shitty garbage people.

But if Human Target is wearing his Oliver mask and having sex with Susan without her knowing it's not Oliver? Then it's the same thing as the SVU episode I mentioned. She consented to having sex with Oliver, not a dude wearing his face.

Perfect explanation.

Edited February 24, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

23 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

It seems to me that it's rape if

1. you have a pre-existing relationship with a person and someone else is pretending to be that person or
2. you have sex with a person in the understanding that you're going to be getting something and the other person is either unable (pretend dean) or refuses to give it (dean who says he will let in the kid but has no intention of doing so).

1 is rape, yes.

2 isn't rape. A court would most likely dismiss it because the person consented to having sex ["I only did it because they promised to give me a pony" = irrelevant if you consented to the sex part. You've been duped, not raped]. I mean, depending on what you were getting in exchange for sex, that is solicitation, and you're the criminal, not the victim.

[tv echo]

22 hours ago, johntfs said:

It feels like they kind of want to forget that Sara ever existed outside of Legends.

That was so apparent from the very first episode of this season when they had Laurel say, "Please don't let me be the last Canary," conveniently forgetting about the existence of her sister, Sara, f/k/a the Canary, n/k/a the White Canary.

Edited February 24, 2017 by tv echo

[finnaire]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Seems like this happens a lot on magic-type shows.  OUAT - Robin sleeps with Zelena because she's used magic to make herself look like his wife Marion.  Grimm - Nick sleeps with Adalind because she's used magic to make herself look like his longtime girlfriend Juliette.  BtVS - Riley sleeps with Faith because she's used magic to switch bodies with Buffy.  

Unfortunately it's never addressed as rape in any of these situations. :(

It seems like HT pretending to be Oliver would be the same situation, even without a pre-existing relationship between Oliver and Susan.

IMO, that's why whenever you have magic or supernatural elements in a show you can no longer apply real world rules and laws.  If these things existed in our world the laws, as we know them, would very likely be different.  

Edited February 24, 2017 by finnaire

[Hiveminder]

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

IMO, that's why whenever you have magic or supernatural elements in a show you can no longer apply real world rules and laws.  If these things existed in our world the laws, as we know them would very likely be different.  

Not in this case. Like in the twins case that someone linked to, people are able to trick people into thinking they are someone else through a variety of ways. The fact that in the fictional worlds mentioned it can also be done with magic doesn't really change anything. 

[AES13]

I honestly thought this was worse than last week.  The "very special" episode was at least an attempt, no matter how ham-fisted, at addressing an actual issue.  It was laughably bad but they sort of tried.  This week was just dumb.  They had this all female team up (one blond, one brunette, one redhead, of course) but don't give them a chance to really interact.  The B team seemed pretty inept, except for Dinah's superpower, and Oliver seemed to not have a clue as to how he was coming across, to Prometheus' mother, to Susan, or to the head of the ACU.  He basically outed himself to the guy and made it apparent that the mayor's office was rife with corruption.  

I enjoyed seeing Thea (although I wish they'd stop crimping her hair) but they really dumbed Felicity down in order for the blame to fall squarely on Thea's shoulders.  Thea approaches Felicity and has to specifically ask her to hack into Susan's computer?  When confronted by Oliver, she has no idea what exactly Thea had her plant?  I don't buy it.  

I'm hanging on with the eventual hope of Olicity coming back, but they are making it harder and harder. 

[yellowfred]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

That was so apparent from the very first episode of this season when they had Laurel say, "Please don't let me be the last Canary," conveniently forgetting about the existence of her sister, Sara, f/k/a the Canary, n/k/a the White Canary.

Very true, though I'd say it was apparent from the time Evelyn first showed up and everyone was all upset, because what kind of monster would dress up in a dead woman's clothes and run around pretending to be her?  I think it felt extra glaring this episode because any one of these people could have saved Dinah a whole subplot's worth of angst by just telling her how Laurel became the Black Canary in the first place.

[johntfs]

I still have a half hour of Arrow to watch but I really want to go back and watch the latest  episode of The Expanse 15 dozen more times.  FYI Chad Coleman (ex-Tobias Church) plays Fred Johnson in The Expanse in a much more interesting role.

Edited February 24, 2017 by johntfs

[Thundercatmary]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

I still have a half hour of Arrow to watch but I really want to go back and watch the latest  episode of The Expanse 15 dozen more times.  FYI Chad Coleman (ex-Tobias Church) plays Fred Johnson in The Expanse in a much more interesting role.

I've been meaning to check that show out.

Ive really only been watching Arrow sporadically now.

[BunsenBurner]

But Susan actually gave her number to HT who gave it to Oliver. So would it really be rape since she thinks she's with HT even if she doesn't know it?

[Hiveminder]

5 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

But Susan actually gave her number to HT who gave it to Oliver. So would it really be rape since she thinks she's with HT even if she doesn't know it?

No, she thinks she's with Oliver Queen. It's not like she met some random dude who gave her some other random guy's name. Oliver is a public figure.