Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[bioprof]

Although I watched every episode of the original L & O, I could barely tolerate the season of "detective beauty queen". This assistant DA reminds me of her....always a semi smirk on her face...please go away. Angie Harmon, you doing anything right now?

Edited March 14, 2017 by bioprof

[Xeliou66]

Detective Beauty Queen was awful and had no acting talent, I am a huge fan of the original L&O and season 17 was by far the worst, she nearly led to the show getting canceled. I'm glad you agree with my comparison, Valdez is very wooden and doesn't have much acting talent, she does always have a smirk and she can't show any passion without looking over the top, she is by far the weakest character on the show and needs to go, she's just there to be a plastic pretty face. Please give more airtime to the head DA who seems interesting but is being wasted and less airtime to Valdez. 

52 minutes ago, paigow said:

Hope you are not someone that hates crossovers because the dude is Head of Psychiatry on Chicago Med

Interesting, I have never seen Chicago Med and so I didn't know that. But it actually fits very well having him on this show because prosecutors do consult psych experts, it was done frequently on the original L&O and on SVU, so yeah it worked very smoothly, not forced at all, couldn't tell he was a crossover character and I like seeing a psych expert consult with the DA's and I think he would be a solid recurring character on here the way Skoda and Olivet were on the original L&O. 

[Raja]

41 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

 

Interesting, I have never seen Chicago Med and so I didn't know that. But it actually fits very well having him on this show because prosecutors do consult psych experts, it was done frequently on the original L&O and on SVU, so yeah it worked very smoothly, not forced at all, couldn't tell he was a crossover character and I like seeing a psych expert consult with the DA's and I think he would be a solid recurring character on here the way Skoda and Olivet were on the original L&O. 

I think you can count on it as he has also provided the same services to the Intelligence Squad of Chicago PD

[Sandman]

15 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

Is Nagel the last or first name? I wish she had a better first name if Nagel is the first. 

Her first name is Laura. Quite frankly, not that anyone asked, but I find Joelle Carter far more annoying than Barbaro. She's not exactly wooden, but she seems to have an emotional range from zero to 1. I've never seen her before Chicago(!) Justice(!), but so far I'm not impressed. She makes the perfect partner for Antonio, though, since she seems completely unimpressed with him (unlike everyone else on any Wolf show ever), She's a walking eyeroll, but he kind of deserves that, I think.

[paigow]

50 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I've never seen her before Chicago(!) Justice(!), but so far I'm not impressed.

Binge watch Justified... she was very good in that

[Raja]

12 hours ago, bioprof said:

Although I watched every episode of the original L & O, I could barely tolerate the season of "detective beauty queen". This assistant DA reminds me of her....always a semi smirk on her face...please go away. Angie Harmon, you doing anything right now?

She is coming off a starring series as the cop to go backwards and being the among the few Law & Order lawyer characters to stagnate career wise being in the same role 20 years later, but still not back in Texas would be a different choice.

Maybe my problem is I am still seeing the show as Law & Order: Chicago and not Chicago X public servants melodrama so the no time for back up cops and the lawyer having some kind of personal relationship with the judge sitting on her case and lying about it to her boss  just seems so wrong

[Chris Knight]

I'm in the She's the Daughter camp. The hug didn't look romantic to me, and Apollo Creed said that he could be her father.I wonder if Ben Stone himself will ever appear in a cameo. That would be great  !

[Waterston Fan]

3 hours ago, Sandman said:

Her first name is Laura. Quite frankly, not that anyone asked, but I find Joelle Carter far more annoying than Barbaro. She's not exactly wooden, but she seems to have an emotional range from zero to 1. I've never seen her before Chicago(!) Justice(!), but so far I'm not impressed. She makes the perfect partner for Antonio, though, since she seems completely unimpressed with him (unlike everyone else on any Wolf show ever), She's a walking eyeroll, but he kind of deserves that, I think.

Okay, thanks. 

I seem to always see Nagel and Antonio when they should say, Laura and Antonio. But then, maybe they do that and I'm not paying close attention. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, ChicagoChris said:

I'm in the She's the Daughter camp. The hug didn't look romantic to me, and Apollo Creed said that he could be her father.

I missed the first few minutes, so I didn't see the hug.  But, her being a Judge's daughter would almost be more unethical than her sleeping with him.  Judges should never preside over any case argued by a family member and would recuse themselves.  Even if the relationship was only just discovered, it was still known for at least a little while, and Valdez said she had a hearing in front of him just that morning.  Big no no.    

[shksabelle]

I like the show, but they can lose the Fox News weathergirl any time. 

[milner]

I thought have you told her yet meant telling the foster daughter they wanted to adopt her.

[hookedontv]

I thought Baldez's "I have a right to my privacy" stance was ridiculous and annoying. For Pete's sake, she should have just told her boss what the deal was with the judge. The question of what she and the judge were doing together would be asked of anyone who was with him the night of his murder. What was even more absurd was Valdez inserting herself into the case after Stone gave her specific instructions to stay out. She was a witness and could compromise the whole case. Between this actress and the writing I was disappointed. Hoping for better things next week!

[Sake614]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:50 AM, ChicagoChris said:

I wonder if Ben Stone himself will ever appear in a cameo. That would be great  !

EXTREMELY doubtful. Moriarty and Wolf did not end on good terms. I suppose it's possible that time has healed the rift, but I just don't see it.

[Xeliou66]

Moriarty will never appear. The guy went apeshit crazy and doesn't even come back to America I think now, he lives in Canada and stays there, he hasn't appeared on American tv/movies in a long time, and he would never want to return and Wolf would never ask him to. 

The truth is, I doubt we will hear much more about the connection to Ben Stone and the mothership, I think it was a ploy to get viewers who were L&O fans but don't like the other Chicago shows ( such as myself ) and that they won't even mention it much now. It would be cool if we got a few more references to L&O but I won't be surprised if we don't.

 

6 hours ago, hookedontv said:

I thought Baldez's "I have a right to my privacy" stance was ridiculous and annoying. For Pete's sake, she should have just told her boss what the deal was with the judge. The question of what she and the judge were doing together would be asked of anyone who was with him the night of his murder. What was even more absurd was Valdez inserting herself into the case after Stone gave her specific instructions to stay out. She was a witness and could compromise the whole case. Between this actress and the writing I was disappointed. Hoping for better things next week!

I totally agree with this. She should definitely have told the truth about what was going on with the judge, because she shouldn't have been involved in cases that the judge was presiding over. She doesn't have a right to privacy when professional ethics are at stake. It doesn't help that the actress playing Valdez is wooden and a plastic pretty face.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

My favorite part was how the Muslim female student made a sex video with her boyfriend.  Her family might LITERALLY kill her for having sex outside of marriage, and she films herself?!?!  So ridiculous.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 08/03/2017 at 11:25 AM, MakeMeLaugh said:

Not there yet for me. The two crack SA investigators couldn't find evidence on the victim before the trial that he was a budding terrorist vs the award-winning student that someone did manage to dig up.

Not only did the SA investigators not catch it but Voight and his elite intelligence team had no idea that the victim was a terrorist, that he had a roommate that was  jealous of him and the the prime suspect had a muslim girlfriend. Seriously, what the hell was that.

Also will a find your phone app work when the phone has been sitting in a storm drain for months and presumably has a dead battery?

[MakeMeLaugh]

I think I'm done with this show. 

[paigow]

Any Vietnam Vet alive today is beyond retirement age...OK, if you are a self employed bar owner, then you can be handwaved....John McCain, John Kerry, George W. Bush.....Jefferies is almost 70, but not dispensing a lot of wisdom like Adam Schiff....does Illinois have a mandatory retirement age for state employees / elected officials?

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

does Illinois have a mandatory retirement age for state employees / elected officials?

It's 75 for Judges.  If they have one for the state's attorney position, I'd imagine it would be the same, but they probably don't have one.

[Tetraneutron]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Any Vietnam Vet alive today is beyond retirement age...OK, if you are a self employed bar owner, then you can be handwaved....John McCain, John Kerry, George W. Bush.....Jefferies is almost 70, but not dispensing a lot of wisdom like Adam Schiff....does Illinois have a mandatory retirement age for state employees / elected officials?

That's one of my TV pet peeves - that Hollywood insists on acting like it's the baby boomers who are middle-aged and the Greatest Generation who are in their 60s and 70s. But in real life, if you were a teenager when the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan you're in the AARP and if you remember Joe DiMaggio in his prime you're in a nursing home or dead. My theory is boomers really don't want to confront the realities of aging. 

But it doesn't actually bother me that Carl Weathers is still the DA since there's no age requirements for elected officials. You can serve as long as the people vote you in. And he's easily the best actor in the main cast. Not saying much, and he gets shit-all to do, but he sold his generic pro-military debate club arguments as well as anyone could. 

This was the best episode so far. No ambiguities or twists, just a straightforward debate club issue. I think that's all the writers are capable of. This felt like Branch-era "Law & Order" to me and I'm fine with that. 

[Waterston Fan]

I liked this episode but I think it would have been better if maybe they had it where the one guy was upset about Trevor marrying his ex-girlfriend. 

One big thing I noticed when Sarah and Antonio went to the crime scene, I noticed that Sarah had stepped on blood and I realize they were wearing shoe covers, I thought, I think you don't step on blood like that. 

I would have thought the military would have asked for any video of the raid before they left the Ukraine so I wonder how Trevor got that video. 

[Medicine Crow]

They've got ME hooked!!  I'm in for this series.

[Raja]

So I guess it is official if Intelligence doesn't grab a murder case then the State's Attorney investigates it himself

[Xeliou66]

I thought this was one of the better episodes so far. It definitely reminded me of an Branch era L&O episode, I remember Branch and McCoy having a similar debate that Stone and Jefferies had last night. I was glad that Stone did the right thing and that Jefferies came around and realized it I think. Stone and Jefferies are the 2 best characters by far, I'm glad they finally gave Jefferies more to do and fleshed him out more, he's not as good as Schiff or Branch from L&O but he's good. 

One thing that bugs me is how the investigators will investigate from the start of the case, that is not at all how it works in real life, the investigators do pre trial investigations for the prosecutors once the cops already have a suspect/made an arrest. The murder would be investigated by the homicide detectives. The original L&O was extremely realistic in its depiction of how the system worked for the most part, and L&O : TBJ presented a more accurate picture of how the DA investigators worked. The problem with this show trying to be realistic in the original L&O style is that it shares a universe with Chicago PD, which is highly unrealistic and not what I would expect from the same guy who created L&O, and simply cannot be reconciled with reality, a guy like Voight would never be let back on duty after going to prison, much less be put in charge of a squad, he would be forced to resign or put behind a desk for the rest of his career because of embarrassment to the department, fear of lawsuits and no credibility. So the shared universe with shows that are nothing like this one hurts the shows realism.

The investigators don't seem all that compelling either and they need to put more emphasis on the trial and courtroom and less on the investigations, it is called Chicago Justice for a reason. I wish they would get into the trial a little before the halfway mark sometimes and have more court scenes and legal arguments. 

And I have to say, I think Valdez needs to go. Awful and wooden. 

[sockii]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

One thing that bugs me is how the investigators will investigate from the start of the case, that is not at all how it works in real life, the investigators do pre trial investigations for the prosecutors once the cops already have a suspect/made an arrest. The murder would be investigated by the homicide detectives.

This keeps bugging the crap out of me, too. Why are the SI's handling these high-profile murder cases from the get-go? Why not just make the show Law & Order: Chicago then, and have Dawson and Nagel in Homicide or something where it would make sense for them to be chasing down suspects, making arrests, etc.

I honestly was expecting something more like Trial by Jury with this series, where the SI's were looking for things that the original police investigators missed, or maybe even mis-reported, and there was sometimes conflict between the police and SI's. We only really saw that in the first episode of Justice, so I'm disappointed they're abandoning that so quickly. I get that maybe makes for a more cerebral, less action-y show, but...that's what I wanted and it's starting to annoy me now.

[Raja]

55 minutes ago, sockii said:

This keeps bugging the crap out of me, too. Why are the SI's handling these high-profile murder cases from the get-go? Why not just make the show Law & Order: Chicago then, and have Dawson and Nagel in Homicide or something where it would make sense for them to be chasing down suspects, making arrests, etc.

I honestly was expecting something more like Trial by Jury with this series, where the SI's were looking for things that the original police investigators missed, or maybe even mis-reported, and there was sometimes conflict between the police and SI's. We only really saw that in the first episode of Justice, so I'm disappointed they're abandoning that so quickly. I get that maybe makes for a more cerebral, less action-y show, but...that's what I wanted and it's starting to annoy me now.

Their no time for back up is really bothering me. On L&O you know a full ESU(SWAT) team would be around if they were going after two veteran SEALs. One investigator even mentioned the absurdity of going in without even grabbing a patrolling cop  in case their suspects decided to use their particular set of skills against them. At least she didn't go for the tackle this time.

[FnkyChkn34]

16 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

One big thing I noticed when Sarah and Antonio went to the crime scene, I noticed that Sarah had stepped on blood and I realize they were wearing shoe covers, I thought, I think you don't step on blood like that. 

Ugh, that bothered me too!  And obviously is was dried, fake blood - like paint - because she didn't leave footprints.  (I think her name is Laura Nagel, not Sarah.)

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I have to say, I think Valdez needs to go. Awful and wooden. 

Dick Wolf has never been shy about killing off assistant prosecutors- e.g. Claire & Alex - so the situation might get resolved soon...

[Xeliou66]

Yeah, maybe so. I think Valdez has potential but they need someone with more acting talent than just smirking. 

The investigator thing is bugging me, they wouldn't be investigating a case from the start, they would take over once there was a suspect/arrest/indictment and the DA's took over from the cops. They are not cops and it's ridiculous to have them behaving like cops, I get that they want an investigation part of the show but I would prefer them to just do the pre trial investigations and have a little bit more courtroom scenes as well. 

[Waterston Fan]

On 3/21/2017 at 6:29 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

Ugh, that bothered me too!  And obviously is was dried, fake blood - like paint - because she didn't leave footprints.  (I think her name is Laura Nagel, not Sarah.)

I guess I should stick to the last name. I might be messing up her first name. lol 

[Ailianna]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The investigator thing is bugging me, they wouldn't be investigating a case from the start, they would take over once there was a suspect/arrest/indictment and the DA's took over from the cops. They are not cops and it's ridiculous to have them behaving like cops, 

Actually, they ARE cops, in the sense that they are licensed police officers in the state of Illinois and have police credentials and arrest powers, et cetera. Their assignment is with the state's attorney's office, and they aren't supposed to do investigations from scratch unless there's a reason the normal police agency can't (like investigating a cop, for instance, or certain public officials, or so on that they want handled by the prosecutor's office from the get go), but they are cops.

[MakeMeLaugh]

5 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Actually, they ARE cops, in the sense that they are licensed police officers in the state of Illinois and have police credentials and arrest powers, et cetera. Their assignment is with the state's attorney's office, and they aren't supposed to do investigations from scratch unless there's a reason the normal police agency can't (like investigating a cop, for instance, or certain public officials, or so on that they want handled by the prosecutor's office from the get go), but they are cops.

I called them "cops" in the thread about the first episode and got spanked for it. Dawson and Nagle have done nothing that the characters on PD don't do, so imo if they quack like cops, they're cops. I did comment to Mr MML that I'm surprised D&N dress so casually, like they're undercover detectives (like most of the featured characters on PD except my Trudy)--I would think they would dress up a little more. Just another reason I think I'm over this show.

Edited March 23, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[Chris Knight]

I'm not sure I'm gonna continue with this show. I'm still watching the original Law and Order on Sundance and TNT and the writing can't even be compared. The original had great story lines and excellent actors (except Nina). Chgo Justice is very mediocre at best.

[Xeliou66]

Agreed, this show doesn't compare to the mothership. It's a shame how far Dick Wolf has fallen with these Chicago soap opera's and the pro police state propaganda that is PD. Justice is the best Chicago show but that doesn't say much. I like Stone and Jefferies but Valdez is awful and the 2 investigators, well I can take or leave them. The acting and writing aren't nearly as good as on the original L&O, this show is just mediocre. 

The tie ins to L&O were just an attempt to sucker mothership viewers that don't like the Chicago franchise into watching. I doubt we will ever hear about any of it again. Although I have to say, I like how they made Ben Stone's son the lead character and I definitely see similarities between the 2 in how they prosecute, and I loved seeing Paul Robinette appear again and have scenes with Peter Stone and then Peter calling Ben at the end, those were great scenes for anyone who loved the original L&O, but I have a feeling tags is the last we will see or hear of any of the mothership characters. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Xeliou66

[Waterston Fan]

Another thing is, we don't even know if this show is coming back and if it is, NBC needs to move it to a better timeslot because it's not going to last in the timeslot it is now in September. 

[FnkyChkn34]

6 minutes ago, Waterston Fan said:

Another thing is, we don't even know if this show is coming back and if it is, NBC needs to move it to a better timeslot because it's not going to last in the timeslot it is now in September. 

I don't think it will compete against Game of Thrones (that will be over by September I believe), but I do agree with you.  It can't compete with football.

[Elliebab]

On March 20, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Raja said:

So I guess it is official if Intelligence doesn't grab a murder case then the State's Attorney investigates it himself

Intelligence doesn't do all the work you know. There are different kinds of cops. When Antonio was in Vice, he was also doing the arrests. 

Investigators for the state attorneys Performs special investigations or projects as assigned by the District Attorney.

So there you go. Antonio and Laura are assigned cases, that's it. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Elliebab

[Xeliou66]

The show will definitely get a new time in the fall if it's renewed, because of NBC's Sunday Night Football. 

It makes no sense for the DA's investigators to be assigned regular murder cases. If it's some kind of special case that they want to get a jump on I can see getting them involved early but homicide detectives would handle the investigation part and the DA investigators usually enter the picture once an arrest has been made. The way they are doing it is unrealistic, and the DA has no authority and no reason to take over random murder cases from the Homicide cops. 

[Raja]

The Justice crew between backdoor pilots on PD and their own episodes have taken cases from Intelligence, or Mr Stone personally showed up at the crime scene and acted like the incident commander telling technicians what to do and the local patrol cops to canvas the neighborhood. With no other detectives around, his State Attorney office investigators then ran the cases.

[paigow]

Ben Stone beat double jeopardy at least once...Junior learned something from the old man....

[Xeliou66]

Mediocre episode overall. Once again, there wasn't enough courtroom scenes. Only about the last 12 minutes were spent on the courtroom, which isn't nearly enough for what's supposed to be a legal show. They didn't seem to do much investigation at all before the arrest, and something about the writing just seemed off.

It still bugs me how they are having the SA Investigators be on the case from the start, that is the homicide detectives job not theirs and it is forced. It's pretty clear they wanted to make this "L&O : Chicago", but if they wanted to do that they should've made Dawson and Nagel homicide detectives, given them a boss and let them have the first 30 minutes of the show, and then let the prosecutors have the second 30 minutes, just like the mothership. The way it is right now, it's like the writers don't know what they want. The result is some kind of matchup of the mothership and Trial By Jury that feels very weird. 

Another thing that is weird is how every episode at about the midway point, Stone and Valdez will always be eating at the exact same restaurant and discussing the case, and the last scene they will be at the bar having drinks at the same bar. While eating/drinking scenes weren't unusual on the mothership, they weren't so formulaic and they weren't always at the exact same location, at the exact same table and at the exact same time in the episode. I miss the endings where the prosecutors discuss the case as they got in the elevator, I wish they would change it up some. 

The case could've been more interesting, the defendant was certainly a memorable, sleazy villain but the writing just seemed off. They had nothing on the guy until over halfway through, and the trial scenes were way too brief.  

They are completely wasting Jefferies, who is an interesting character and a good DA, and the only one who seemed to point out that they had no evidence and they needed a motive and more facts, I wish they would give him more scenes, he is barely on. Valdez on the other hand gets too many scenes for such a weak actress, she is incredibly flat, constantly smirking, and is reminding me more and more of detective Beauty Queen from season 17 of L&O. 

 I never remember Ben Stone beating double jeopardy, I remember Jack McCoy doing it though in a case where a judge was bribed. I remember Ben Stone having a similar case like this one against a smug adversary though. I did like how Peter Stone talked about his dad again, I thought we were most likely done with the L&O tie ins, it's nice for viewers that were L&O fans to get these little comments about L&O characters, and I hope they continue to do that, and I hope we find out more about what Ben Stone did after his retirement from the DA's office, and I hope we see Robinette or maybe another L&O character again at some point, even though I know Stone himself will never appear. 

This isn't a bad show, it just has some issues with the writing and isn't up to the quality of the L&O franchise shows, at least not yet. I hope the writing kinks get worked out, I would like to see the show succeed, it's just frustrating as a viewer how little courtroom we've gotten, as well as other writing oddities. 

[sockii]

I'm just rolling with the show basically being Law & Order: Chicago at this point—although I thought this case made possibly more sense ending up with the SI's since it was taking place outside of Chicago proper, and the local police seemed woefully (almost comically) unable to handle things. Then again, Dawson was supposedly involved in the original case investigation, so who knows? I'm going to just have to suspend disbelief and roll with it.

And overall I did like this episode quite a bit. The story was different and yet also felt quite old school L&O to me. I thought everyone had a decent part to play and we got to see a little more of their personalities evolving. Nagel and Dawson really intrigue me as partners—they both have a lot of experience and are kind of jaded and cynical, but I like that it's Nagel who's even moreso that way. And nice to see Stone genuinely angry and pissed off at this guy, instead of Mr. Super-Cool all the time.

[KDB]

When Peter was meeting with Anna to ask about her relationship with the judge, one relevant question would be who else knew that the judge would be at that bar that evening. 

I hope that it turns out that there was nothing sexual going on between Anna and the judge. I agree with the posters above that she could be his daughter or maybe a former law school professor who is mentoring her. 

[Sandman]

I think my favourite moment in the episode might have been Junior's trying to soft-pedal his connection to The Great Stone:

Junior: My dad was an ADA back east...

Valdez: I know who your father is.

Heh. Imagine if Junior's been trying constantly to mention, ever so casually, that his father was the Amazing Ben Stone, and all his co-workers are kind of over it by now? That would amuse me.

Nagel's growing on me, but I'm still annoyed by Antonio. Giving him a connection to the prior case isn't helping convince me what a fantastic cop Antonio is. Just stop now, show.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Sandman

[Raja]

I spent the beginning of the episode believing that they found a new template and reason for the State's Attorney Investigators. It was the CBI from The Mentalist, instead of the Sheriffs or State Police helping small towns with little experience and crime labs for major crimes. By the half hour mark I was sure that the Law and Order twist was going to be a dying cop framing a guilty man as his last act.

[Gigglepuff]

Overall I liked this episode a lot. The story was interesting and definitely reminded me of the old L&O days. Though Nagel is my favorite, all of the characters are growing on me, even Valdez. I would like to see more Jeffries, but I'm impressed that so far the show has remained an ensemble. 

This show has some weaknesses, but I appreciate that the cases are handled with decorum and sans PSA hysteria.  

P.S. Kudos to the writer that let us know that Valdez is a vegetarian! I appreciate the way her dietary restriction was casually mentioned and we didn't have to be sledgehammered to death with some angsty character moment! Yeah, it was tied in in an episode about a butcher, but lets face it, we all know that if an SVU character was a vegetarian it would be because they knew someone that died of Mad Cow or somehow fell to their death in a giant meat grinder or something. That is good, subtle writing imo, and lets us know a bit more about Valdez at the same time. 

[paigow]

Now we know why they are always in the same restaurant...the only place in town that satisfies carnivores and vegetarians!

9 minutes ago, Gigglepuff said:

P.S. Kudos to the writer that let us know that Valdez is a vegetarian! 

 

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Another thing that is weird is how every episode at about the midway point, Stone and Valdez will always be eating at the exact same restaurant 

[Tetraneutron]

10 hours ago, paigow said:

Ben Stone beat double jeopardy at least once...Junior learned something from the old man....

What episode are you thinking of? When Stone was talking to the judge about how double jeopardy doesn't apply if the defendant was never actually in jeopardy the first time, I thought of the season 6 episode where McCoy gave basically the exact same speech. 

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It still bugs me how they are having the SA Investigators be on the case from the start, that is the homicide detectives job not theirs and it is forced. It's pretty clear they wanted to make this "L&O : Chicago", but if they wanted to do that they should've made Dawson and Nagel homicide detectives, given them a boss and let them have the first 30 minutes of the show, and then let the prosecutors have the second 30 minutes, just like the mothership. The way it is right now, it's like the writers don't know what they want. The result is some kind of matchup of the mothership and Trial By Jury that feels very weird. 

Another thing that is weird is how every episode at about the midway point, Stone and Valdez will always be eating at the exact same restaurant and discussing the case, and the last scene they will be at the bar having drinks at the same bar. While eating/drinking scenes weren't unusual on the mothership, they weren't so formulaic and they weren't always at the exact same location, at the exact same table and at the exact same time in the episode. I miss the endings where the prosecutors discuss the case as they got in the elevator, I wish they would change it up some. 

Honestly, this is "Law & Order". You know what you're getting. Dick Wolf shows are absolutely never about the real way public services are run. Nagel and Dawson are investigators because this is Trial by Jury: Chicago. Would the show be better if Dawson and Nagel played cops? No. On the original series, the cop half was always going through the motions. Find body, Lennie quip, red herring one, red herring two, arrest the guy. Making Dawson and Nagel investigators allows the show to focus on the actually interesting legal stuff. It allows them to take a side in the ethical debate of the week. It just makes more sense. 

Best episode so far, I think. The writers are better when they don't have to bring serious social issues into it and can just do a straight murder. Trying to make the butcher Stone's Lex Lutor nemesis was kind of funny, the way they had Stone growling his name when he was first introduced. And we all saw it was a blackmail scheme from miles away. Still good. Weird speechifying about governmemt regulations. Like, even the most hardcore libertraian doesn't think that justifies murder or insurance fraud. And we learned something about a character besides Stone. Valdez is a vegetarian. Still can't act, to the point it's actually distracting. 

[Sandman]

3 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

I appreciate the way her dietary restriction was casually mentioned and we didn't have to be sledgehammered to death with some angsty character moment!

Valdez's "Do you know how many carcinogens are in a hotdog?" and Antonio's response of "Too late now." is the most I've ever liked Antonio. It was a nice little relationship-building scene.

I have to add that Jonesy the Small Town Cop was the least I've ever liked this show, and maybe any of the Chicago quartet: Jonesy the Incompetent Small Timer was a truly ridiculous character, and the cheapest available means of making Stone look brilliant, with almost being able to save the nincompoop's testimony.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Sandman

[Tetraneutron]

On 15/03/2017 at 8:32 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I totally agree with this. She should definitely have told the truth about what was going on with the judge, because she shouldn't have been involved in cases that the judge was presiding over. She doesn't have a right to privacy when professional ethics are at stake. It doesn't help that the actress playing Valdez is wooden and a plastic pretty face.

Yes she does. The whole plotline was stupid because all that was relevant was she knew the guy outside of business, she shouldn't have been involved in the prosecution. Whether she was sleeping with him (and come on, this is "Law and Order", they are never going to write their characters like that) was completely, completely irrelevant. It had nothing to do with the Brock Turner/Aaron Perskey story they were telling. How would it change anyone's legal strategy? In an episode about rape and whether the system treats rape victims fairly, it was just a poorly-written way to make a point about how people assume young, pretty women are promiscuous and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. 

6 hours ago, KDB said:

When Peter was meeting with Anna to ask about her relationship with the judge, one relevant question would be who else knew that the judge would be at that bar that evening. 

I hope that it turns out that there was nothing sexual going on between Anna and the judge. I agree with the posters above that she could be his daughter or maybe a former law school professor who is mentoring her. 

It won't "turn out" to be anything because we will never see or hear of these characters ever again. It was a cheap way to do something with the character/make a point about slut-shaming. Come on. This is network TV. Do you really think they'd ever write one of the protagonists (the female lead, even), EVER having sex with a married judge twice her age who presides over her cases? Come on. This isn't an Aaron Spelling show.