Over the River and 'Round the Bend: Unspoiled Speculation

[MarkHB]

This thread is for Unspoiled Speculation.  If you have been reading spoilers, on this site or elsewhere, don't post in here!   Beyond that, theorize and speculate all you want!  Enjoy!

[rho]

Oh yay!! Thanks :)

Okay, my first thought, Mr. Bloom is Polly's dad. I think she had an affair and that's why she hates their family so much, plus it might explain why she's so unhinged.

[DigitalCount]

Haha, that was my spec as well. I've seen this done on another show that this show has been compared to (in fact, a couple, but the earlier show didn't actually fire the trigger on it being true, just that the characters involved believed it to be true by the time the relationship ended). I guess the other reason why Alice would be so against Jason and Polly dating is that they'd be half-siblings, to go with Jason's other inappropriate sibling relationship.

[imakicola]

I haven't been paying attention to other threads about this so maybe this has already been suggested. Or maybe everyone thinks it's obvious, and I'm late to the party. But here it is!

My theory for Riverdale is that Jason was actually secretly the product of Penelope's love affair with another man, and thus he wasn't a real Blossom. And that Clifford found out very recently, shortly before Jason died.  Which would explain why Clifford said to Cheryl "I should have been grooming you...you're a real Blossom!" - and would also explain why Penelope always treated Jason better than Cheryl...if Jason was actually her love child with the man she REALLY loved.  It also explains why Clifford didn't really seem all that bothered by the "incest" if Jason wasn't really a Blossom.  It would also explain why when FP kidnapped Jason and held him for ransom Clifford decided NOT to pay the ransom, and then just kill Jason...because he knew he wasn't his son but didn't want the world to find out or think he was an evil father for not paying the ransom.  This would also explain the strained relationship between Jason and Clifford. there's still one more episode left in the season!

[Miss Dee]

Nice thinking!

So of all the candidates out there for Penelope's baby-daddy, who's the frontrunner? My money's on Fred because of how Penelope reacts to Archie.

[PeekaBoo]

Like the theory... I'm also in for Fred because of the red-hair...

Although one thing that bugged me a bit is that scene in episode 12 when they were showing FP in the prison (I wonder if it was when Clifford was talking to him , threatening Jughead...)... It sorta faded from FP over to Cheryl Blossom... I was like, hmmm, something that connects them I wonder? But it might very well my desperate "shippy-heart" analyzing the slightest of signs...

Have we seen Fred + Penelope interact with one another so far? Hope we get to see that next season!

[Bill1978]

Aren't Jason and Cheryl twins?

[methodwriter85]

I'm calling it- Betty's long lost brother will turn out to be a transgender woman named Hallie who befriends Betty to launch her revenge schemes. All will be revealed when she kidnaps Betty, Veronica, and Cheryl and forces them to dress up as dolls.

[SeanC]

Obvious things for next season:

- Mystery around Hiram Lodge's return, and whether he was involved in the attack on Fred.  Obviously this will complicate Archie and Veronica's relationship as well, even before any suspicion falls on Lodge pere, since Hiram presumably hates the idea of his daughter dating the son of his old rival.

- Jughead being tempted by the dark side.

- Polly having those twins (one imagines the boy will be named Jason).

[jay741982]

34 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Obvious things for next season:

- Mystery around Hiram Lodge's return, and whether he was involved in the attack on Fred.  Obviously this will complicate Archie and Veronica's relationship as well, even before any suspicion falls on Lodge pere, since Hiram presumably hates the idea of his daughter dating the son of his old rival.

- Jughead being tempted by the dark side.

- Polly having those twins (one imagines the boy will be named Jason).

And RAS has said Betty may be right there with Juggy tempted by the dark side as next season she learns to Harness Dark Betty as well

[LadyNebula]

Well, Chick Cooper HAS to play into the plot, although I wonder if they'll keep his comics name. Yes, I knew that Betty's brother's name is Chick.  No, I did not have to look it up. Don't judge me.

[Miss Dee]

SO THEY SAY.

[methodwriter85]

19 hours ago, LadyNebula said:

Well, Chick Cooper HAS to play into the plot, although I wonder if they'll keep his comics name. Yes, I knew that Betty's brother's name is Chick.  No, I did not have to look it up. Don't judge me.

All joking about Pretty Little Liars transphobic plot twist aside, I do think Chick would make the most sense coming in as a teacher, or maybe a boss.

I would laugh if they cast Mykko Oliver as him, being that he looks a look like KJ Apa.

[jay741982]

I wanna see Jughead and Betty both embrace the Serpents and be members embrace their dark sides for a bit. Also uninterrupted Sexytimes LOL also Varchie and Bughead stay the main couples. Skeet Ulrich join as a regular. More screen time for Kevin Josie Reggie and that Jughead's adoptive family turn out to be Sabrina and her aunts. 

[jay741982]

I don't think I want Jughead and Betty to share a Sibling though as I love their romance

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, jay741982 said:

I wanna see Jughead and Betty both embrace the Serpents and be members embrace their dark sides for a bit. Also uninterrupted Sexytimes LOL also Varchie and Bughead stay the main couples. Skeet Ulrich join as a regular. More screen time for Kevin Josie Reggie and that Jughead's adoptive family turn out to be Sabrina and her aunts. 

And in this reality, Sabrina's aunts are actually a lesbian couple who have been together for centuries. And this Sabrina is Asian instead of blonde. (Honestly, I don't think they're going to add another blonde white girl to the show.)

Maybe Betty's sibling could actually be Hiram's son? Maybe Hiram raped Alice and Hal wanted her to get an abortion, but she refused, and Hal pretended he was the father to FP so he wouldn't find out the truth and kill Hiram.

Edited May 13, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Lady Calypso]

I honestly think that Betty and Polly's sibling could be Fred's kid. I mean, at the very least, it's not out of the realm of possibilities. We all know there's only a 5% chance that it's Hal's, and we know all these parents have a history together. Wasn't Alice totally against Betty and Archie getting together early on? She seems to detest Archie and is not fond of Fred, so maybe Alice/Fred's history goes deeper. That, and if the brother is actually Fred's kid and if he becomes the shooter, due to Jughead's narration that the shooting wasn't random, it could be an interesting dynamic of Secret Son shooting Bio Dad for *insert reason here*.

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Maybe Betty's sibling could actually be Hiram's son? Maybe Hiram raped Alice and Hal wanted her to get an abortion, but she refused, and Hal pretended he was the father to FP so he wouldn't find out the truth and kill Hiram.

This isn't a bad alternative. I mean, it's a pretty bad alternative in general, but I could see this being the case. Though why would FP care more than Hal about it?

Honestly, though, I can see any of the male adults being the father. I mean, I even jokingly thought that Clifford could be Secret Daddy because it would make the Blossom/Cooper family even more messed up! 

Right now, I think I'd find it interesting if Fred was the father. It would keep him alive for season 2, at least! 

I think we'll see FP's trial take place for at least the first half of the season. I THINK they said that season 2 is going to be more than 13 episodes, so I imagine his trail will go on until at least episode 10, and then something happens that gets him released. I can't see him staying in prison for the rest of the series, let alone all of season 2, and I truly believe that he won't be dying in season 2. 

I'd still like Jughead to be asexual. Unfortunately, their I Love You scene made me a little less hopeful, ALTHOUGH it's not out of the realm of possibilities yet. They did happen to stop the sex scene before it started, so they might be able to still do it right if they decide to. I don't know if they'll change their minds, but I'm hopeful. Not that I don't want them to have some romantic scenes of them making out, but I still want a little more representation for asexuality and they can still make it work. 

I also look forward to Jughead and Betty going down dark paths. I also look forward to more Archie/Veronica. 

I'm still convinced that Fred won't die because that means even more angsty Archie. I mean, he'll be angsty even if Fred survives and he'll get angry enough to find the shooter, but a dead Fred means sad and mourning Archie, and that won't be any fun. 

[methodwriter85]

FP would care more about it because he's always cared more about Alice than Hal, and because Hal knew that FP would have the Serpents backing him if they went after Hiram. Or Hal and FP didn't know and Alice always maintained that it was Hal's. Do you notice that during her confession, she never actually says that she got pregnant by Hal?

There does seem to be a purpose in having all of the parents be the same age.

Edited May 13, 2017 by methodwriter85

[thefreeair]

This is more of a Season 2 wishlist kind of thing than a speculation, but I hope the expanded season gives the writers room to focus on the Betty/Veronica friendship more. I feel like they spent a lot of time building the romantic relationships this season, which kind of isolated the core 4 into their respective couples for the character moments. Jug and Archie got some attention, but we were left with more shallow B and V interactions. 

The Betty/Veronica stuff started out promising, but fizzled out quickly as soon as Bughead started up. I want to see the girls leaning on each other a bit more, bonding, and facing challenges and issues together. Hopefully, that thread will get picked up again for S2. 

[jay741982]

8 minutes ago, thefreeair said:

This is more of a Season 2 wishlist kind of thing than a speculation, but I hope the expanded season gives the writers room to focus on the Betty/Veronica friendship more. I feel like they spent a lot of time building the romantic relationships this season, which kind of isolated the core 4 into their respective couples for the character moments. Jug and Archie got some attention, but we were left with more shallow B and V interactions. 

The Betty/Veronica stuff started out promising, but fizzled out quickly as soon as Bughead started up. I want to see the girls leaning on each other a bit more, bonding, and facing challenges and issues together. Hopefully, that thread will get picked up again for S2. 

Betty and Veronica friendship is one of my favorite relationships on the show and i agree with wanting to see some more girl time for them. We got a bit in Season finale but it was about Archie. Definitely want more bonding and supporting each other AND Writers do not fuck them up Cause of Archie Andrews NO TRIANGLE. I'd love to See Veronica help Betty out with a potential threat to Bughead Romance and Betty Help out with a threat to Varchie Romance be it another person or Something else. Also have Betty go with Veronica next time She goes to the club or something. Season finale set up good possible girl time with Betty and Veronica sharing with each other what happened with their men in the season 2 finale.

[rho]

On 5/11/2017 at 7:20 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I'm calling it- Betty's long lost brother will turn out to be a transgender woman named Hallie who befriends Betty to launch her revenge schemes. All will be revealed when she kidnaps Betty, Veronica, and Cheryl and forces them to dress up as dolls.

Grundy was actually writing a book all along. Side note, really glad she's gone, but still salty they wasted three episodes, of a 13 order, on her boring-as-fuck c-story.

Jokes aside, with Jason's murder solved, will there be a new overarching murder/crime plot for next season? I feel like it can go in a lot of different directions. Whether or not Fred makes it to next season, I don't think the gunman was just coincidence. Either someone's got it out for Fred, or Pop's in deep (maybe he's invested in the maple/heroin trade). Or we get some convoluted story about Cliff and his drug trafficking. He might be retired now, but there's no way he was working alone. Someone will be coming for reparations. Wonder if the remaining Blossoms are in trouble. 

Also, what are the chances Polly actually has the twins? She's like out of sight, out of mind for me. I forget about her unless she's on screen, and even then I keep forgetting she's pregnant. With Jason's murder solved, what purpose does she serve? Maybe she'll be the next dead blonde girl a la Laura Palmer.

[jay741982]

58 minutes ago, rho said:

Grundy was actually writing a book all along. Side note, really glad she's gone, but still salty they wasted three episodes, of a 13 order, on her boring-as-fuck c-story.

Jokes aside, with Jason's murder solved, will there be a new overarching murder/crime plot for next season? I feel like it can go in a lot of different directions. Whether or not Fred makes it to next season, I don't think the gunman was just coincidence. Either someone's got it out for Fred, or Pop's in deep (maybe he's invested in the maple/heroin trade). Or we get some convoluted story about Cliff and his drug trafficking. He might be retired now, but there's no way he was working alone. Someone will be coming for reparations. Wonder if the remaining Blossoms are in trouble. 

Also, what are the chances Polly actually has the twins? She's like out of sight, out of mind for me. I forget about her unless she's on screen, and even then I keep forgetting she's pregnant. With Jason's murder solved, what purpose does she serve? Maybe she'll be the next dead blonde girl a la Laura Palmer.

Killing a Pregant woman with Twins would be dark as hell and OMG there is the reason for Dark Betty to emerge stay a while and Join the Serpents! Betty would be so Devasted and Hurt and Angry. As long as Polly isn't killed by Hal which would be Repetive and make Hal the worst person in the shows history. Now that I think about It Betty would have a Psychotic break. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by jay741982

[NutmegsDad]

I like the idea that Jug's foster family is Sabrina and her aunts.

I'm on the fence if Fred survives, but I'm definitely onboard that it was a hit by Hiram. I'm undecided if it's for firing the Serpents or for his fling with Hermione (why not both?)

I'm liking Jughead joining up with the Serpents, not so much for the Dark Side, but because the Serpents will protect him, and it will give him insight from within to see if/who ordered/carried out the hit, assuming it was a Serpent who did it. And where Jughead goes, Betty will follow. The Mayor is in too deep with Hiram, so I'm calling on the heels of his transfer, she's going to try to keep Bughead apart.

Wishlist: with the fall of the House of Blossom and Hiram's return, I'm hoping the showrunners mine the Archieverse (as Once Upon a Time went to the Disney Vault) and another family coming in are the Cabots: Alex III and Alexandra.

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, NutmegsDad said:

I like the idea that Jug's foster family is Sabrina and her aunts.

I'm on the fence if Fred survives, but I'm definitely onboard that it was a hit by Hiram. I'm undecided if it's for firing the Serpents or for his fling with Hermione (why not both?)

I'm liking Jughead joining up with the Serpents, not so much for the Dark Side, but because the Serpents will protect him, and it will give him insight from within to see if/who ordered/carried out the hit, assuming it was a Serpent who did it. And where Jughead goes, Betty will follow. The Mayor is in too deep with Hiram, so I'm calling on the heels of his transfer, she's going to try to keep Bughead apart.

Wishlist: with the fall of the House of Blossom and Hiram's return, I'm hoping the showrunners mine the Archieverse (as Once Upon a Time went to the Disney Vault) and another family coming in are the Cabots: Alex III and Alexandra.

It just seems silly to me that the corrupt ass mayor would care about a relationship between teenagers but if it's cause of Hiram I could see it being cause he deems Archie not worthy of Ronnie. So he probably would try to push Betty and Archie together UGH do not want. 

[NutmegsDad]

16 hours ago, jay741982 said:

It just seems silly to me that the corrupt ass mayor would care about a relationship between teenagers but if it's cause of Hiram I could see it being cause he deems Archie not worthy of Ronnie. So he probably would try to push Betty and Archie together UGH do not want. 

I'm thinking Betty and Jughead pursued the story about Jason's death tooooooo close to her involvement with Hiram, and "wanting to clean up the reputation" meant covering up the nasty details, praising Betty as solving the murder while delegating FP's son deep in the recesses of town. If they can figure out who killed Jason, they could figure out Hiram and the Mayor were in cahoots.

[FurryFury]

Joaquin? Isn't he, umm, Latino? I could imagine him as the son of Alice and Hiram, though.

[PeekaBoo]

3 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I don't think the show has made Joaquin's ethnicity clear? Or maybe I missed it. If they haven't, he may have been adopted by a Latino family. Or, if the family was not Latino, maybe they liked the name Joaquin, like the Phoenix family.  =)  I know Rob Raco is Canadian and I think he is of Italian descent, and I could certainly see Joaquin being an offspring of Alice + FP.

But yeah, Hiram could be another contender and great for the drama and relationships aspect. I would just find it strange that Alice has had no reaction to Hiram's name being tossed around all over the place if they have a history. Either baby daddy would work for me though!

You just gotta feel bad for Alice for being thrown around at all the guys!! Lol!!

At first I also thought that Joaquin could have been FP + Alice's kid but I doubt the show would have made it "that" obvious. Besides, wasn't his name Joaquin Di Santos? Can be anything from Latino to Portuguese to Italian... He was adorable though, hope he comes back...

I am getting quite curious to know who the baby daddy is!! If you mention all the potential contenders, Alice doesn't seem to react to any of them when mentioned... Fred, FP, Hiram or Clifford (ew at that one though!!!).  Can it just possibly be that it was Hal's baby and she gave him away because it just wasn't the right time to have a kid?!?!

On a final note -- What?!?! Joaquin is Canadian?!?!  Rock on!!!

[FurryFury]

Hal's kid is way too boring. It was pretty specific when she never said outright it was his kid. But I do think it could be another (new) character rather than any of the dads. Or (more likely) the writers haven't decided it yet.

3 hours ago, Sonoma said:

 

I don't think the show has made Joaquin's ethnicity clear?

 

They didn't. It was the combination of his looks and his obviously Hispanic name that made me think he was Latino.

[SeanC]

I find the idea of it being Joaquin unlikely simply because the reveal of Cooper #1's existence feels like a classic setup to introduce a new character, rather than what would amount to a revelation about a very minor existing character who was shuffled offstage at the end of Season 1.

[methodwriter85]

I'm absolutely positive that the original ending of season 1 was significantly altered. Something about it smelled of re-write.

[jay741982]

5 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

The last few episodes were a bit altered and the season finale was significantly altered from its original writing.  (I'm pretty positive when the show was originally sketched there were no "I loves yous" or cabinet smashing in the script for Jughead and Betty in the season finale!)  It's no secret the showrunners are taking audience reaction and SM data to make changes where they feel it will best impact the show and its audience.  The actors have been pretty open about that.

If it means staying away from The silly triangle I'm all for it. Betty and Veronica are better as friends and the way the show has been it would be so dumb to have Betty be like comic Betty and pant after Archie who Cleary prefers Veronica in comics and on the show has better chem with Veronica while Betty and Jughead Chem is Fire IMO. I did read in a review of the finale that Berlanti shoehorned in what looked like Archies fickle fuckboyness. Hes just upset Betty isn't Panting after him and loves Jughead. IMO what works best is Beronica and Jarchie friendships and Bughead and Varchie Romances 

[MarkHB]

5 hours ago, Sonoma said:

The last few episodes were a bit altered and the season finale was significantly altered from its original writing.  (I'm pretty positive when the show was originally sketched there were no "I loves yous" or cabinet smashing in the script for Jughead and Betty in the season finale!)  It's no secret the showrunners are taking audience reaction and SM data to make changes where they feel it will best impact the show and its audience.  The actors have been pretty open about that.

Either they brought the cast back for pickups, then, or else they based any changes off of focus groups, because they wrapped for the season on February 4, after only 2 episodes had aired and before Bughead was even a thing.

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

Sabrina and Hiram were supposed to appear in the season finale, although I don't know if that was ever filmed. 

Sabrina just appeared on the cover of the comic F.P. was reading.

Hiram was never cast during filming, so they discarded the ending he would have shown up in before they actually filmed the episode.

The show did change things in the course of production, but I don't believe they ever restarted production to add new stuff.  The changes (e.g., swapping out the season ending) just happened before most of the season aired.

[imakicola]

My theory! Rumor has it Dylan spouse might play Betty's brother. If that's the case, Betty's brother might look a lot like Jughead. Love child between Alice and FP?? They do have somewhat of a past together at least growing up on the south side!!!

[PeekaBoo]

18 minutes ago, imakicola said:

My theory! Rumor has it Dylan spouse might play Betty's brother. If that's the case, Betty's brother might look a lot like Jughead. Love child between Alice and FP?? They do have somewhat of a past together at least growing up on the south side!!!

I know.??? Posted a similar msg on another thread. I'm not believing it at all. Didn't the other twin quit acting or whatever? Can he really be this blonde Adonis like veronica claims he might be? Lol. But that does point  a lot to FP being the baby daddy.... this is so interesting  ?? 

[The Crazed Spruce]

I kinda doubt they'd cast Cole's twin brother as a character who's supposed to be a good decade older.

Typically, if a "news" story only has one source, take it with a huge grain of salt. (And if the main source is Reddit, take it with a whole frikkin' shaker.)

[methodwriter85]

On 5/22/2017 at 0:57 AM, Sonoma said:

They're definitely using audience and SM data. (Whether the changes are being driven by the showrunners or the network I don't know.) I know Fred getting shot was a new scene. Sabrina and Hiram were supposed to appear in the season finale, although I don't know if that was ever filmed. 

There were some weird long gaps between some of the episodes, and it makes me wonder if the rewrites/reshoots had anything to do with it. 

I feel like Cheryl setting the mansion afire was more of thing in the original finale plans- something about it felt awfully cliffhanger even before you added in the Fred cliffhanger.

[Bruinsfan]

What if Mary is the one who had Fred shot, because she wants Archie to get out of Dodge and come live with her in Chicago?

Edited May 27, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[methodwriter85]

9 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

What if Mary is the one who had Fred shot, because she wants Archie to get out of Dodge and come live with her in Chicago?

I always did want to see Molly Ringwald play a villain. (Well, she did do a B-movie in the 1990's where she stalks a guy but I made it through about 10 minutes.)

Honestly, not a bad idea.

I would be kind of down for the show to rip-off the Psycho Derek from One Tree Hill plot with Betty's older brother. Well, provided he's as hot as Matt Barr.

[SiobhanJW]

I hope if they ever end up bringing in Jugheads mom- she's another awesome 80s/90s actor. I love how they have Perry, Ulrich, Ringwald, Amick on the show. 

Ooo maybe Neve Campbell? Or Tiffani Thiessen? 

[jay741982]

On 5/28/2017 at 2:40 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I always did want to see Molly Ringwald play a villain. (Well, she did do a B-movie in the 1990's where she stalks a guy but I made it through about 10 minutes.)

Honestly, not a bad idea.

I would be kind of down for the show to rip-off the Psycho Derek from One Tree Hill plot with Betty's older brother. Well, provided he's as hot as Matt Barr.

I just watched a couple clips but never watched One tree hill. What was that story about? Was he her actual brother but had a sick Incestual obsession with her?  

[Glory]

5 hours ago, SiobhanJW said:

Ooo maybe Neve Campbell? Or Tiffani Thiessen? 

Oh man! I'd give anything for Tiffani Thiessan and Luke Perry to be on screen together! That would be awesome. 

I just binge watched this over the holiday weekend and I did NOT know it was only 13 episodes. I was gearing up for the back half of the season and then it was OVER! Not fair!

I'm so all in, I can't wait. 

I really want Serpent Jughead and less Archie for season 2. That's where I'm leaning. 

[methodwriter85]

No, Psycho Derek just pretended to be her brother. (Her actual bro turns out to be black.) His real name is Ian, and he became obsessed with her because she resembles his dead girlfriend. She died in an accident that he was blamed for because he was drunk driving.

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

No, Psycho Derek just pretended to be her brother. (Her actual bro turns out to be black.) His real name is Ian, and he became obsessed with her because she resembles his dead girlfriend. She died in an accident that he was blamed for because he was drunk driving.

Oh ok thanks so much!

[Bruinsfan]

What's Shannen Doherty doing these days?

[Bruinsfan]

Maybe Penelope had them at the same time, but by different fathers. Like a cat. Eyes Salem suspiciously...

[jay741982]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:26 AM, Glory said:

Oh man! I'd give anything for Tiffani Thiessan and Luke Perry to be on screen together! That would be awesome. 

I just binge watched this over the holiday weekend and I did NOT know it was only 13 episodes. I was gearing up for the back half of the season and then it was OVER! Not fair!

I'm so all in, I can't wait. 

I really want Serpent Jughead and less Archie for season 2. That's where I'm leaning. 

I'll raise your Serpent Jughead and Add that I wanna see Serpent Betty as they explore their dark sides. Agree with you about less Archie But he and the Fab Veronica Lodge are getting even closer in season 2

[memememe76]

I would love the actresses who played Susan and Carol from Friends play the Aunts who raise Jughead.

[jay741982]

8 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I would love the actresses who played Susan and Carol from Friends play the Aunts who raise Jughead.

That would be cool. And then they can be revealed as Sabrinas aunts.

[Glory]

18 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

What's Shannen Doherty doing these days?

She just finished chemo as she had some type of cancer.