Endgame Discussion and Speculation

[BlackberryJam]

Selwyn Tarth has been mentioned in every season since Brienne appeared. Is there a speech to her about fulfilling her legacy in the show? Not yet. But it's not accepted that she's a lone warrior without a family. Her father is mentioned as liked and respected by pretty much everyone who talks about him.

[Eyes High]

22 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Absolutely on Brienne's arc. She has failed to fulfill her duties as heir of her House (as has Jaime.) Their arcs are about finally doing what they were always meant to do, lead their Houses, instead of serving others in a celibate order.

I disagree. I remember Randyll Tarly in AFFC telling her that if she had any regard for the virtue or honour of her house, she would remove her mail, go home, and beg her father to find a husband for her, since the gods made men to fight and women to bear children. If she decides to chuck it all for Tarth to "fulfill her duties," i.e. marry and bear children, isn't she pretty much accepting that he's right?

I agree with SeanC in that Brienne's arc has been about exploring knighthood. I doubt her arc will culminate in resigned acceptance that assholes like Randyll Tarly were right all along and that this whole knighthood business was a waste of her time.

[BlackberryJam]

Not resigned acceptance that Randyll Tarly was right. That misses the point entirely.

Her arc is not exploring knighthood. It has been about honor, oaths and duty. Brienne was taught from an early age that she did not fit into the world as a woman. She learns that Randyll Tarly is wrong and that she can be both a knight and a woman. It's not about one or the other, but that she is a woman and heir, just as she is, without a need to become Randyll Tarly's idea of a woman.

In addition, GRRM changed the title of the seventh book 10 years ago because it didn't work. Possibly because although it's a cool name, this generation of Starks is the last.

Edited March 17, 2017 by BlackberryJam
Hit post too soon.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Not resigned acceptance that Randyll Tarly was right. That misses the point entirely.

Her arc is not exploring knighthood. It has been about honor, oaths and duty. Brienne was taught from an early age that she did not fit into the world as a woman. She learns that Randyll Tarly is wrong and that she can be both a knight and a woman. It's not about one or the other, but that she is a woman and heir, just as she is, without a need to become Randyll Tarly's idea of a woman.

Again, if she decides to abandon knighthood and service in favour of going home to Tarth to fulfil her duty to marry and continue the line--unless you're suggesting she can do both--that would be proving Randyll Tarly right, since that's precisely what he urged her to do. I doubt GRRM would do that to Brienne, although I suppose it would be "realistic" that, beaten down and disillusioned by her experience with knighthood, Brienne ultimately resigns herself to fulfilling what she's been told is a woman's role in that world.

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In addition, GRRM changed the title of the seventh book 10 years ago because it didn't work. Possibly because although it's a cool name, this generation of Starks is the last.

Possibly. It would be a little strange if Jojen's big line, "the wolves will come again," turned out to mean "the wolves will come again...briefly and temporarily, only to be wiped out permanently."

Also, there's very little chance that either the Freys and the Lannisters will be wiped out permanently, even if there is a Red Wedding 2.0 at Daven Lannister's wedding as some suspect. There are plenty of Lannisport Lannisters left, and there are Freys all over the place. GRRM does seem to have a certain sense of ultimate rough justice in ASOIAF, so it would be strange if House Lannister and House Frey were battered but still standing at the end of the books while House Stark was effectively extinguished.

[Stephanie1216]

I was glad to hear Gendry is back and the rumor that he snatches his dads war hammer as his weapon of choice. My ending that I haven't heard anything about is:  after all this stuff blah blah, when they wrap up the show in a happy ending, Dany is on the iron throne and legitimizes Gendry as a Baratheon and gives him Storms End. He and Arya fall in love and she marries him and makes her base at Storms End. I don't care if she keeps "working" or if, like her dad told her once, she would change her mind about being the Lady of a castle and having her own family. But I want Gendry at Storms End as a Baratheon.

Dany on the Iron Throne, I don't really care if she marries or has kids. She can name Jon or his kids as an heir.

I kinda wanted Jon to stay single for awhile and marry Lyanna Mormont when she grows up and they rule the North together while Dany is on the Iron Throne, much like Robert and Ned's agreement.  Their kids can be Danys heirs if she stays single.

[BlackberryJam]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Again, if she decides to abandon knighthood and service in favour of going home to Tarth to fulfil her duty to marry and continue the line--unless you're suggesting she can do both--that would be proving Randyll Tarly right, since that's precisely what he urged her to do. I doubt GRRM would do that to Brienne, although I suppose it would be "realistic" that, beaten down and disillusioned by her experience with knighthood, Brienne ultimately resigns herself to fulfilling what she's been told is a woman's role in that world.

Possibly. It would be a little strange if Jojen's big line, "the wolves will come again," turned out to mean "the wolves will come again...briefly and temporarily, only to be wiped out permanently."

Also, there's very little chance that either the Freys and the Lannisters will be wiped out permanently, even if there is a Red Wedding 2.0 at Daven Lannister's wedding as some suspect. There are plenty of Lannisport Lannisters left, and there are Freys all over the place. GRRM does seem to have a certain sense of ultimate rough justice in ASOIAF, so it would be strange if House Lannister and House Frey were battered but still standing at the end of the books while House Stark was effectively extinguished.

You're missing the point entirely. Brienne doesn't do one and then the other. She is both a lady and a knight. At the same time. Not sacrificing one for the other as Randyll suggested she would have to do.

The wolves will come, defeat the Others and then find they are no longer needed. That's why this is the last generation of Starks. And the last generation of dragons.

[Stephanie1216]

And all the years we have watched the show we have never seen Casterly Rock. Who is legally the heir? Tyrion is a criminal and Jamie a Kingsguard. They supposedly have many cousins.  

Tyrion likes being the Hand so he will stay with Dany. JAmie will sicken of Cersai, but will he ever get his head out of his ass and fall in love with someone else?  Remember he said he had never been with anyone except Cersai so I can't imagine him falling in love, or a political marriage sending him home to the Rock. I can't even think of how to wrap up Jamie's story therefore I think the twins will both die and Tyrion will remain the Hand and a cousin will inherit the Rock.  The mines are dry so maybe the new Lord will fall on humble times.

the Tyrell property? The Reach will always make money if managed properly but who on the TV show are left to be the Lord of the Reach?

 

Sansa being Lady Aryn would be great if that sissy Robin would die.  Anyone in charge of the Vale would have it made. But I don't wish our favorite characters to end up with sissy Robin. Sansa shouldn't have to be the third wheel to Jon at Winterfell either. If Jon stays their where can Sansa go? Maybe her and Gendry will fall in love, become Baratheon, and move to Storms End. Leaving Arya to pursue her career. Not my favorite scenario.

Who's getting Dragon Stone? It's Danys home to give once again and there aren't any targareyans 

[Eyes High]

27 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

You're missing the point entirely. Brienne doesn't do one and then the other. She is both a lady and a knight. At the same time. 

Well, sure, she is currently both a lady and a knight, but you said that she is also currently neglecting her duties to her house, i.e. marrying and bearing children to continue the family line, which would be her duties as a "lady." So by your own logic, she can't do both, because she's currently failing to fulfill her duties to her house. That is, by the way, pretty much the exact same thing Randyll Tarly said when he was urging her to go home to Tarth and drop this silly business of acting like a knight if she had any regard for the virtue or honour of her house. So if she's a "lady" and a "knight" simultaneously but in acting as a knight is failing to fulfill her duties to her house as you claim she is, she's in fact failing as a "lady" by your logic. Your own argument collapses in on itself.

Brienne in the books at least seems keenly aware that her choices are either/or: either she remains a knight, or she gives it up to head back to Tarth to fulfill her duties as an heir (and I agree with SeanC that she really doesn't think about it all that much in the books, except as a potential backup plan if she runs out of options). It may seem like a false dichotomy to you, but Brienne understands her options very well. It's a tough choice, but there's no mistaking that she indeed has to choose.

If she were to ditch either her quest (in the books) or Sansa (in the show) to head back to Tarth, she would be effectively turning her back on her oaths. So currently, at least, she can't do both. In the show, she's stuck with Sansa until Sansa dies...which, to be fair, given what happened to Renly and Catelyn, may happen sooner rather than later. 

No matter what happens to Brienne, I think she will live or die as a knight. I think anything less would be a disservice to the character...particularly to TV Brienne, who seems like a much older, more experienced and tougher version of her book self.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Eyes High

[Stephanie1216]

Yes, they could kill off Dany, and Jon gets IT, that would give Bran or Sansa Winterfell. But only one Stark needs to be in Winterfell. I don't want to see Sansa stuck there as a third wheel.

If she marries (and kills) Littlefinger, shed kinda be related to Robin Aryn, at least as related at Peter was. I would like to see Sansa in charge of the Vale, but how to get rid of that sniveling Mama titty sucker Robin?

Maybe Davos is gifted Dragonstone? He needs more legit sons. It's by the ocean and its Danys to give.

Sam and baby Sam will simply go home to the Tarly castle. 

Who gets the Reach? Someone responsible who actually wants the responsibility.  Sansa could run Highgarden and the Tyrells and her liked one another. If Dany has all the power to give it away and it supplies Westoros and the Armies with food, Dany would make sure this is given to someone she trusts completely. I haven't heard any main character say "my dream is to be a farmer" who on earth gets Highgarden?

[Eyes High]

14 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Yes, they could kill off Dany, and Jon gets IT, that would give Bran or Sansa Winterfell. But only one Stark needs to be in Winterfell. I don't want to see Sansa stuck there as a third wheel.

If she marries (and kills) Littlefinger, shed kinda be related to Robin Aryn, at least as related at Peter was. I would like to see Sansa in charge of the Vale, but how to get rid of that sniveling Mama titty sucker Robin?

While Book Sweetrobin seems very vulnerable at the moment in the Vale, I kind of feel like the show has passed any opportunity to get rid of Sweetrobin: he doesn't have the epilepsy-type condition he has in the books, he's not being poisoned, and he's more or less safely ensconced in the Vale far from Littlefinger. I don't know that that means that Book Sweetrobin will survive ASOIAF; it may be that rather than kill Sweetrobin off and replace him with Harry the Heir as GRM may do in the books, D&D are just collapsing two characters into one and sparing Sweetrobin's life.

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Sam and baby Sam will simply go home to the Tarly castle. 

Yes, this seems likely, especially now that we know that Randyll and Dickon Tarly are dying in Season 7.

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Who gets the Reach? Someone responsible who actually wants the responsibility.  Sansa could run Highgarden and the Tyrells and her liked one another.

We know from Season 7 leaks that Olenna Tyrell, who's the last living Tyrell as far as the show is concerned, dies. The Tyrells are done for. If anyone gets the Reach, I expect it will be Sam.

I also doubt that Sansa, if she lives, will want to leave Winterfell for any reason, much less go south.

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If Dany has all the power to give it away and it supplies Westoros and the Armies with food, Dany would make sure this is given to someone she trusts completely. I haven't heard any main character say "my dream is to be a farmer" who on earth gets Highgarden?

Well, TV Tyrion has said that he wants his own vineyard, and I believe all the vineyards are in the Reach (or Reach-adjacent). I still think it will be Sam who ends up with the Reach, though.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Eyes High

[whateverdgaf]

45 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Well, sure, she is currently both a lady and a knight, but you said that she is also currently neglecting her duties to her house, i.e. marrying and bearing children to continue the family line, which would be her duties as a "lady." So by your own logic, she can't do both, because she's currently failing to fulfill her duties to her house. That is, by the way, pretty much the exact same thing Randyll Tarly said when he was urging her to go home to Tarth and drop this silly business of acting like a knight if she had any regard for the virtue or honour of her house. So if she's a "lady" and a "knight" simultaneously but in acting as a knight is failing to fulfill her duties to her house as you claim she is, she's in fact failing as a "lady" by your logic. Your own argument collapses in on itself.

Brienne in the books at least seems keenly aware that her choices are either/or: either she remains a knight, or she gives it up to head back to Tarth to fulfill her duties as an heir (and I agree with SeanC that she really doesn't think about it all that much in the books, except as a potential backup plan if she runs out of options). It may seem like a false dichotomy to you, but Brienne understands her options very well. It's a tough choice, but there's no mistaking that she indeed has to choose.

If she were to ditch either her quest (in the books) or Sansa (in the show) to head back to Tarth, she would be effectively turning her back on her oaths. So currently, at least, she can't do both. In the show, she's stuck with Sansa until Sansa dies...which, to be fair, given what happened to Renly and Catelyn, may happen sooner rather than later. 

No matter what happens to Brienne, I think she will live or die as a knight. I think anything less would be a disservice to the character...particularly to TV Brienne, who seems like a much older, more experienced and tougher version of her book self.

It's not just marrying and bearing children, but also leading and governing Tarth. Protecting it from invasions and making sure her people are well looked after. That means she can continue in her role as a warrior and fighter as well. When her fans say that they want her to do her duty to Tarth, that means they want her to lead and protect her people. As for Sansa, she has her brother and the North to look after her. There can come a time where Brienne decides that Tarth's need for her is greater than Sansa's. Plus, she was Tarth's heir before she was Sansa's sworn sword.

Brienne isn't just a knight, driven solely by duty, she is also someone who loves deeply and wishes to have that love returned. I think that it would be an equal dissersive to her character for her to be denied the chance to be accepted  as a knight and a woman who is worthy of love, as both these roles have been denied to her. She can't be a knight because she is a woman, but because she is not considered womanly enough she cannot be loved romantically either. Yet it is clear that she wants both. If she and Jaime end up ruling their lands together, she can be.

[SeanC]

Just now, whateverdgaf said:

It's not just marrying and bearing children, but also leading and governing Tarth.

That's the thing, Brienne's arc doesn't have any features of leadership or governance, in either medium.  It's all about trying to uphold the role of the perfect knight.  She's never shown giving thought to what she might do as a leader, and her arc hasn't pushed her into such a role.

Jaime's arc is also, in my view, mainly about knighthood, but I can at least see how people might argue it's ultimately about leadership, since we see him, throughout AFFC, acting in that sort of governance capacity, dealing with issues of peace and war, etc.

[Eyes High]

24 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

There can come a time where Brienne decides that Tarth's need for her is greater than Sansa's. 

No, it can't. Brienne can't just decide unilaterally she's no longer going to do the thing she swore an oath that she would do. That's the whole point of swearing an oath. Sure, she wouldn't be the first knight to tell their lady or lord to fuck off when fulfilling their oaths became inconvenient, but Brienne has always been better than that.

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Plus, she was Tarth's heir before she was Sansa's sworn sword.

So what? There's no asterisk appended to the oath that you can opt out of the oath when it conflicts with your other duties. That's not how it works. 

[whateverdgaf]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

No, it can't. Brienne can't just decide unilaterally she's no longer going to do the thing she swore an oath that she would do. That's the whole point of swearing an oath. Sure, she wouldn't be the first knight to tell their lady or lord to fuck off when fulfilling their oaths became inconvenient, but Brienne has always been better than that.

So what? There's no asterisk appended to the oath that you can opt out of the oath when it conflicts with your other duties. That's not how it works. 

Sansa herself may be willing to release Brienne from her oath. And it's not just a case of inconvenience, it's pragmatism. Tarth will need a leader and Brienne will be needed when her father dies. Sansa will already be protected and Brienne's role can be replaced, whereas she is her father's only child. Situations change and sometimes it just isn't feasible to continue an oath. And this would be the case if there comes a time when Brienne isn't needed at Winterfell but is in Tarth. Plus, Sansa's own oath stated that she would ask no service of Brienne that is dishonourable, and it would be dishonourable to allow Tarth be left vulnerable because there is no obvious heir to inherit after Brienne's father dies. And if not, surely Sansa has enough of a heart to allow Brienne to leave if the situation required her to do so.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

Sansa herself may be willing to release Brienne from her oath. And it's not just a case of inconvenience, it's pragmatism. Tarth will need a leader and Brienne will be needed when her father dies. Sansa will already be protected and Brienne's role can be replaced, whereas she is her father's only child. Situations change and sometimes it just isn't feasible to continue an oath. And this would be the case if there comes a time when Brienne isn't needed at Winterfell but is in Tarth.

Sansa may be willing to release Brienne from her oath, but Brienne would not be at liberty to decide that her oath no longer bound her and just peace out as it pleased her. 

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Plus, Sansa's own oath stated that she would ask no service of Brienne that is dishonourable, and it would be dishonourable to allow Tarth be left vulnerable because there is no obvious heir to inherit after Brienne's father dies.

Except that Brienne knew full well that she was Tarth's sole heir at the time Sansa accepted her into her service and she swore the oath anyway without mentioning this issue. It's not as if there's some change in circumstances since the time Brienne swore the oath as to Tarth's need for heirs; the need had existed for some time and Brienne chose to disregard that and swear the oath anyway, much as she disregarded that need when she sought to enter Renly's Kingsguard (which could have been for decades had Renly lived) and then Catelyn's service (which could have also lasted for decades had Catelyn lived). Giving Tarth heirs is not and has never been a big priority for Brienne in either the books or the show, or else she would think twice before swearing lifelong service to pretty much anyone who will have her.

If it is in fact "dishonourable" to leave Tarth vulnerable and without heirs by having the sole heir sworn in service to another house, well, that Brienne's doing and not Sansa's, and it is just as dishonourable for Brienne to do so by swearing service to Sansa as it was when Brienne swore to serve in Renly's Kingsguard (anticipating it could last for many years) and then Catelyn (also anticipating it could last for many years).

[whateverdgaf]

25 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Sansa may be willing to release Brienne from her oath, but Brienne would not be at liberty to decide that her oath no longer bound her and just peace out as it pleased her. 

Except that Brienne knew full well that she was Tarth's sole heir at the time Sansa accepted her into her service and she swore the oath anyway without mentioning this issue. It's not as if there's some change in circumstances since the time Brienne swore the oath as to Tarth's need for heirs; the need had existed for some time and Brienne chose to disregard that and swear the oath anyway, much as she disregarded that need when she sought to enter Renly's Kingsguard (which could have been for decades had Renly lived) and then Catelyn's service (which could have also lasted for decades had Catelyn lived). Giving Tarth heirs is not and has never been a big priority for Brienne in either the books or the show, or else she would think twice before swearing lifelong service to pretty much anyone who will have her.

If it is in fact "dishonourable" to leave Tarth vulnerable and without heirs by having the sole heir sworn in service to another house, well, that Brienne's doing and not Sansa's, and it is just as dishonourable for Brienne to do so by swearing service to Sansa as it was when Brienne swore to serve in Renly's Kingsguard (anticipating it could last for many years) and then Catelyn (also anticipating it could last for many years).

I agree, it was dishonorable of Brienne to have made those vows. It was well intentioned, and it came from a place of insecurity and a genuine desire to serve and be useful where she feels it best suits her, but it was misguided. That is why I would like her to realise this and decide to ask Sansa to release her from her vows should it become necessary for her to do so.

Giving Tarth heirs has never been a priority, but doing what is her duty and what is honorable has. And when her father dies it will be to return to Tarth. In the books she shows guilt about the fact she is not the heir she feels her father desires, and these same feelings can be revealed in the show and be consistent with her character, considering the vulnerability and self-doubt that she displays in scenes such as when she tells Pod about the Ball. 

If Sansa ordered or begged Brienne to stay, then Brienne would, unless the situation in Tarth was extremely dire and Sansa had no genuine need for Brienne specifically. And Jaime has had an great an impact on Brienne as she has had on him, because of Jaime she knows that oaths and loyalties conflict and there will be times when it is necessary to break them. So if there comes a time when Brienne sees that her father and homeland need her, I can see her make the decision that she will need to leave, even if it does mean breaking her oath to Sansa and asking her to release her from her vows.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know about the show and what Brienne will do, and we have no idea where she is in the books, but part of the Golden Company has landed on Tarth, so there's a very strong possibility that it has now fallen. So maybe she heads there next if she manages to survive Lady Stoneheart? I'd think that she would want to go home and rescue her father.

[GreyBunny]

Brienne's father in his early 50s I think, she thinks he could marry again and father some sons.  As to the capture of Tarth, Brienne being heir might be moot if things went badly.

Brienne's story, like her relative, Duncan the Tall, is part of the wider examination of what it means to be a true knight.  There are knights who act very unchivalrously and brutally (clear examples in Sansa's storyline) while Brienne and Dunk arguably embody the knightly ideal better than anyone else, but themselves aren't knights and, in Brienne's case, could never be because she's a woman.   

Edited March 18, 2017 by GreyBunny

[Holmbo]

Would anyone be interested in a separate poll thread were we list all the remaining characters and predict who lives and dies by the end?

I think it would be a lot of fun to go back after the final season and see who was closest.

[BitterApple]

6 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Would anyone be interested in a separate poll thread were we list all the remaining characters and predict who lives and dies by the end?

I think it would be a lot of fun to go back after the final season and see who was closest.

That's a really good idea! 

[Eyes High]

14 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Would anyone be interested in a separate poll thread were we list all the remaining characters and predict who lives and dies by the end?

I think it would be a lot of fun to go back after the final season and see who was closest.

Yes, do it!

[Holmbo]

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/55560-endgame-prediction-poll-who-survives/

[Maximum Taco]

On 2017-03-17 at 11:41 AM, Stephanie1216 said:

I was glad to hear Gendry is back and the rumor that he snatches his dads war hammer as his weapon of choice. My ending that I haven't heard anything about is:  after all this stuff blah blah, when they wrap up the show in a happy ending, Dany is on the iron throne and legitimizes Gendry as a Baratheon and gives him Storms End. He and Arya fall in love and she marries him and makes her base at Storms End. I don't care if she keeps "working" or if, like her dad told her once, she would change her mind about being the Lady of a castle and having her own family. But I want Gendry at Storms End as a Baratheon.

Personally I don't think Daenerys would think House Baratheon needs to continue. Remember the Baratheons are the ones who killed her family and extinguished her line (if in fact she is barren.)

It would seem poetic, perhaps even just, for their line to also be extinguished. Even after accepting the fact that her father may have been mad, that doesn't mean that she has to like, or forgive, the House that led to his death and put the rest of her family to the sword.

[GrailKing]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:45 AM, BlackberryJam said:

Not resigned acceptance that Randyll Tarly was right. That misses the point entirely.

Her arc is not exploring knighthood. It has been about honor, oaths and duty. Brienne was taught from an early age that she did not fit into the world as a woman. She learns that Randyll Tarly is wrong and that she can be both a knight and a woman. It's not about one or the other, but that she is a woman and heir, just as she is, without a need to become Randyll Tarly's idea of a woman.

In addition, GRRM changed the title of the seventh book 10 years ago because it didn't work. Possibly because although it's a cool name, this generation of Starks is the last.

I think, he said it gave too much away, never the less even with Jojen saying the wolves will come again and we have Leaf saying there is no room for magic in the world of men and the Direwolves will out last the others but eventually their time will also come.

We also have the parallels with Sansa and Elizabeth the first who died without heirs so the Stark line could end with her death.

So to me this generation has a 50/50 chance, either way it's more is it here or in the distance future.

[Hecate7]

On 3/17/2017 at 10:55 AM, Stephanie1216 said:

And all the years we have watched the show we have never seen Casterly Rock. Who is legally the heir? Tyrion is a criminal and Jamie a Kingsguard. They supposedly have many cousins.  

 

Had. They had many cousins. But I think Cersei's explosion, and the war, took care of most of them. In the books there's a sister, but on the show there's just Kevan. I think as matters now stand, the heir is Cersei.

[OhOkayWhat]

5 hours ago, GrailKing said:

We also have the parallels with Sansa and Elizabeth the first who died without heirs so the Stark line could end with her death.

We also could have an open ending: some male or female characters remain single at the end of the last episode, implying the possibility to marry years later, but we will not see that future event on screen.

Edited April 4, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[GrailKing]

For those who haven't seen this yet:

 

http://watchersonthewall.com/new-hbo-promo-provides-glimpse-game-thrones-actors-season-7-costume/#more-136888

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

We also could have an open ending: some male or female characters remain single at the end of the last episode, implying the possibility to marry years later, but we will not see that future event on screen.

Yes, but if Bran or Sam are doing an accounting I would think we find out at least the main characters, Sam in the library  with the series opening sphere seems to me that we are envisioning what Samwell wrote.

Or I'am just over reaching.

[OhOkayWhat]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Yes, but if Bran or Sam are doing an accounting I would think we find out at least the main characters, Sam in the library  with the series opening sphere seems to me that we are envisioning what Samwell wrote.

Or I'am just over reaching.

You are right, Sam and Bran are good options to have someone to tell us the rest of the story. Of course, it is also possible we only see someone reading part of Sam's journals a century later or we have a scene with Jon, Sansa and Arya asking Bran and Bran being kinda cryptic about the future.

Edited April 4, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[ElizaD]

One theory that I've sometimes seen is that KL will be destroyed in the second Dance when Dany attacks Aegon and her dragonfire causes a massive explosion of hidden wildfire. Since the leaks indicate that Tyrion talks Dany out of attacking KL by pointing out that most victims would be innocents, I think that means she won't be responsible if anything disastrous does happen there. While it's still possible that season 8 Cersei decides that if she can't have the throne no one will (and I can't guess what her plot will be with Jaime gone and only Qyburn/Gregor left as her own supporting cast), I really feel that the show is not hinting at the Seven Kingdoms splitting apart without an Iron Throne; if anything, there's buildup in the opposite direction, with the Reach/Dorne/Greyjoy heirs all siding with Dany and Jon getting revealed as a legitimate Targaryen who has the support of the North/the Vale/presumably the Frey-free Riverlands too.

Marriages: if a character like Tyrion ends the series as a single man, I can imagine him letting one of the many Lannister cousins inherit Casterly Rock; even on the show we know they exist since we got to see some of the younger boys. But for Starks like Sansa if she's the endgame Lady of Winterfell, or King Jon if he lives but Dany dies, I think it's safe to imagine that they'll eventually marry somebody suitable since they're all that's left of their house: the line might die without them and a succession crisis would endanger the safety of their land and their people.

[MrsR]

I'll take a stab at this.

Since this is based off of the War of the Roses, John survives and is in a position of great power. Because he's a bastard and it was Henry VII who sprang from a double bastard line to eventually finish the War of the Roses. But there will be a compromise and Dany will be beside him.  Tyrion will be there as well and rule with them. The Iron Throne will be destroyed somehow and they will rule as a council, representing three great houses.

 

One of the outcomes of the War of the Roses was that so many people and family members died in the fighting that they were just about running out of Royal family members.  Dukes were were at a shortage as well and by the time Elizabeth came to rule there was only one dukedom left, Norfolk and she ended up chopping his head off.  Land and estates were handed out to those who backed the right side or who didn't get so involved as to make the King nervous. 

So kingdoms will be handed out to folks who survive and backed our three rulers. 

 

Sansa will end up with the only man who has shown her any respect and consideration, Tyrion. A final kick in the pants to the ass wipe Lannisters is that the one marriage that was created as a joke will be a successful one.

 

Sam will become an educator on his terms. Brienne will survive to lead the Kings Guards. Jaime will die in her arms after he has killed Cersei.  Thus he will be The Queen Slayer as well.  The Earl of Warwick who was known as The King Maker switched sides late in the game and died for it.

Yara will rule her Kingdom.

Arya will realize there's no place like home and rule in Winterfell.

Bran will evolve.

[Eyes High]

Two nuggets from 7x02 that might have some relevance re: the endgame:

1. Sam gently criticizes Ebrose's choice for the title of his history of Robert and suggests something more "poetic" could be a bit of meta humour, or it could be foreshadowing that Sam will ultimately pen the definitive history and will entitle it "A Song of Ice and Fire."

2. Nymeria refuses to go north with Arya and to resume her role as Arya's companion, and Arya sadly accepts this with a "That's not you," a reference (according to the writers) to Season 1 where she rejected Ned's future for her of being a lady and giving birth to princes, etc. with "That's not me." Bryan Cogman said of this development "In the end, they're both lone wolves. They can't go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya, too." So maybe at the end of the series Arya strikes out on her own again...?

[GrailKing]

I had the thought we are reading or hearing about the show through either Bran ( AKA the last Greenseer ), Sansa, ( AKA the mother /Crone/ new Old Nan ) or Samwell Tarly ( AKA GRRM ). I'm convinced now, with a leaning to Samwell.

[Oscirus]

Ok here goes my predictions haven't changed since season 2 but I'll post them here. They get crazy

Tyrion king, Sansa queen

Dany dead

Jon at the wall protecting us from the next invasion

Brienne and Jamie: kingsguard

Arya: queen of the north

Bran: three eyed raven

Sam: Maester 

Cersei: dead

Davos: Perhaps hand to the king?

Varys: sacrafices himself for the kingdom.

Post more as I think of character names.

[Notwisconsin]

The Night King reaches Dorn. He steps in the southern ocean, and with a joyous smile on his face, melts away....all the rest are already dead.

[Francie]

On 7/24/2017 at 1:02 PM, Oscirus said:

 

Tyrion king, Sansa queen

I binged GoT last summer. At the end, I had the exact opposite impression:

Sansa, the red-headed queen. The tongue-less Tyrion has her consort and advisor. They raise Henry V's, err Jaime's child, with Brienne.

Jaime dies in the arms of the woman he loves, Brienne.

The Hound is the head of Sansa's queens guard.

Cersei is killed by Jaime, but it's a mercy kill, as she has fallen prey to Qyborn's experiments. 

Arya sails, by herself, to find out what's west of Westeros. 

The wall is re-built at the neck.

Jon is the Night King. 

Daenerys die a heroic death. 

Varys is revealed as a ultimate bad guy and is killed.

Littlefinger doesn't make it out of this season.

Bran spends 1,000 years in a tree and, at the end, he tells his kids how he met their step-mother to be. 

Sam writes the the poetically titled "A Song of Ice and Fire."

[Eyes High]

13 hours ago, Francie said:

Sam writes the the poetically titled "A Song of Ice and Fire."

Yes, I think we may have our first confirmed surviving major character of the books/show, although Sam's suggestion of a more poetic title may have just been a cheeky bit of meta humour from D&D, something they've done before (the Meereenese knot reference a few seasons back, e.g.). Not that most fans seriously thought Sam would die, of course.

 

13 hours ago, Francie said:

Arya sails, by herself, to find out what's west of Westeros. 

Nymeria showing that she cannot be domesticated being paralleled with Arya's rejection of Ned's vision of her future in Season 1 suggests that Arya is unlikely to settle down after the end of the war, whether it's at Winterfell or at Storms End with Gendry as some have speculated. And GRRM once allegedly planned for a post-ASOIAF series set in Braavos in which an adult Arya was to have a part, which would make a lot more sense if Arya doesn't in fact wind up settling down and resumes her travels.

So if in the end in the show, Rickon's dead, Arya strikes out on her own, and Jon's out of the picture--ruling Westeros, dead, becomes the new NK, whatever--who ends up with Winterfell? Bran or Sansa? Season 7 spoilers suggest that Bran will be uninterested in the job, so maybe Sansa does wind up with it.

[Oscirus]

16 hours ago, Francie said:

Sansa, the red-headed queen. The tongue-less Tyrion has her consort and advisor. They raise Henry V's, err Jaime's child, with Brienne.

Why do you think that Tyrion gets his tongue cut out?

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

So if in the end in the show, Rickon's dead, Arya strikes out on her own, and Jon's out of the picture--ruling Westeros, dead, becomes the new NK, whatever--who ends up with Winterfell? Bran or Sansa? Season 7 spoilers suggest that Bran will be uninterested in the job, so maybe Sansa does wind up with it.

Despite my predictions, Sansa makes alot of sense as qotn. She's the first one to greet and welcome back all the starks to winterfell and she's the biggest one on Starks pride. 

 

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Nymeria showing that she cannot be domesticated being paralleled with Arya's rejection of Ned's vision of her future in Season 1 suggests that Arya is unlikely to settle down after the end of the war, whether it's at Winterfell or at Storms End with Gendry as some have speculated. And GRRM once allegedly planned for a post-ASOIAF series set in Braavos in which an adult Arya was to have a part, which would make a lot more sense if Arya doesn't in fact wind up settling down and resumes her travels.

Arya is a hard case. She drank from the pool of death, I'd imagine that has to have some consequences. No idea what though.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

Why do you think that Tyrion gets his tongue cut out?

I know that this question was addressed to @Francie, but I can tell you it's an old fan theory. This Reddit post sums up the thinking behind it, although it omits that Tyrion also dreamt in one of the books that he had no mouth.

[Francie]

5 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Why do you think that Tyrion gets his tongue cut out?

Despite my predictions, Sansa makes alot of sense as qotn. She's the first one to greet and welcome back all the starks to winterfell and she's the biggest one on Starks pride. 

 

Arya is a hard case. She drank from the pool of death, I'd imagine that has to have some consequences. No idea what though.

3 reasons:

1) in the books, people threaten him with that constantly. Over and over and over again. And there's about a dozen occasions where Tyrion himself makes a crack, and then he thinks that he could lose his tongue for saying that. 

2) too many important characters have had to face life after their greatest asset is taken away (Jaime; Theon -- well, his fondest asset anyway; Cersei's beauty with her hair). 

3) Euron has this tongue knife -- and he likes to use it. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Francie

[Azi]

Argh. Why did no one tell me I was in the wrong thread... nothing to see here~

Edited July 26, 2017 by Azi

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

3 reasons:

1) in the books, people threaten him with that constantly. Over and over and over again. 

2) too many important characters have had to face life after their greatest asset is taken away (Jaime; Theon -- well, his fondest asset anyway; Cersei's beauty with her hair). 

3) Euron has this tongue knife -- and he likes to use it. 

While I'm aware of this theory, I don't find it persuasive. Book Tyrion has already lost his nose, after all. 

It's very unlikely that Sansa will end up as queen of anything. There's nothing in the books pointing to that outcome, and all the Sansa queen references disappear from the books when her betrothal to Joffrey positioning her as the future queen ends. Compare this to someone like Jon, who has king references peppered throughout the books. Even Arya, who seems unlikely to end up as queen unless GRRM insists on adhering to what appears to have been his initial endgame--Jon/Arya as king and queen of Westeros--has far more queen references throughout her narrative than Sansa. Arya's the one who named her direwolf after a queen, not Sansa.

As for Sansa ending up with Tyrion? The writers seems to be content to write for the show as if the marriage never happened. If the wind were blowing in that direction, I believe the writers would have done more to set it up. At any rate, according to Peter Dinklage, Tyrion is "smitten" with Dany and we know that Tyrion has not even mentioned Sansa once since Season 4; there's no indication that Tyrion has even thought about Sansa since his departure from KL. Sansa, even if she one day desires to enter into marriage again (which is by no means a foregone conclusion given her previous experiences), for her part seems firmly ensconced in Winterfell and unlikely to leave anytime soon; she also thinks leaving in the first place was a big mistake. I don't see anyone persuading her to leave, much less Tyrion, no more than I see Tyrion living at Winterfell. Besides, while Sansa has praised Tyrion's kindness to her a few times in the show, she seems to be happy to be rid of that marriage and her connection with the Lannisters. Her non-reaction to learning that Tyrion is still alive and back in Westeros was telling, in my opinion. Now, there has been some speculation that Sansa will resume her marriage with Tyrion as a purely political sham marriage with no fond feelings on either side, but Sansa and Tyrion hated being in a sham marriage the first time around, so I doubt either of them would voluntarily enter into that sort of arrangement; there's also the question of why they would need to be in a political marriage in the first place. Sansa will want to remain at Winterfell, and Tyrion will likely want to remain at Casterly Rock or in KL assuming there is a KL left standing at the end of the series.

What about Sansa ending up QITN as opposed to queen of Westeros? I expect the KITN/QITN title will end and the North will end up folded back into Westeros, which will likely be facilitated by what I assume will be Jon's ascension to the Iron Throne. Remember that in the books the reason the Northerners decided to pursue independence in AGOT is that the Baratheons were nothing to them: as they said, it was the dragons they married ("bowed to" in the show) and the dragons are all dead!...Except not, as it turns out. The Northerners are unlikely to object to being ruled by a Targ they themselves handpicked as their king as they did in the show, once they get over the shock of the truth of Jon's parentage.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Eyes High

[OhOkayWhat]

After Bryan Cogman commentary about Arya and Nymeria scene, I'm more convinced she will go West of Westeros for awhile before returning, as endgame in the show. Alone or not ( I think the Hound will go with her; and of course, he will complain the whole journey) I think that will be her endgame

[domina89]

So this theory has been knocking around in my head ever since GRRM dropped that statement recently about Beric being a "fire wight" (with the understanding that Jon may be one as well).  It gets a little tinfoily and a lot of it is based on book knowledge as well, but here goes...

So, my idea for the end game with the Night King revolves around Jon, not Dany.  I think Dany is a representation of the Mother (of the Seven) and her role in the end game is to be the mother of dragons, the mother of the freed slaves (mhysa) and possibly the mother of the next gen of Targaryens (I don't believe she is sterile).  I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I do think that is what her character is most associated with.  I don't think she will survive the series once she fulfills her destiny.

Anyway, Jon has always been associated with death.  There are many hints to this in the books (such as his dreams of the Winterfell crypts and his association with ravens), but I will name a few from the tv series to illustrate.  
-Jon's mother Lyanna died giving birth to him
-Jon has a direwolf the color of blood and bones named Ghost
-Jon joins the Night's Watch and dresses all in black
-Jon tells Robb that black has "always been my color"
-Jon has had the most interaction with the wights and specifically, the Night King
-Jon has actually died and been resurrected

I think Jon could possibly die again, maybe even three times, and be resurrected again before the final battle for the dawn.  I think these 'deaths' are actually making him more and more equivalent to the Night King-the King of Ice-except since Jon is a Targaryen and represents fire, he will be the King of Fire. I think Jon will ride a dragon.  I also think he will be able to eventually create an undead army as well, possibly an army of ghosts (the dead kings of winter who reside in the Winterfell crypts?) to help him defeat the Night King.  I'm sure others will have a role to play as well, but I think Jon will have to be the one to either banish or kill the Night King.  They have exchanged too many meaningful stares (see the ep. 6 spoilers) to not battle it out in the end.  

I could see an ending where once the Night King dies, all the magic in the world dies and, if that happens, Jon would die as well.  I hope that isn't the case, but it would definitely be bittersweet.  Yay they won the war, but their hero dies as a result of that victory.

Ok, well, there it is.  You guys be gentle with me, ok?  LOL

Edited July 26, 2017 by domina89

[anamika]

15 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Nymeria showing that she cannot be domesticated being paralleled with Arya's rejection of Ned's vision of her future in Season 1 suggests that Arya is unlikely to settle down after the end of the war, whether it's at Winterfell or at Storms End with Gendry as some have speculated. And GRRM once allegedly planned for a post-ASOIAF series set in Braavos in which an adult Arya was to have a part, which would make a lot more sense if Arya doesn't in fact wind up settling down and resumes her travels.

So if in the end in the show, Rickon's dead, Arya strikes out on her own, and Jon's out of the picture--ruling Westeros, dead, becomes the new NK, whatever--who ends up with Winterfell? Bran or Sansa? Season 7 spoilers suggest that Bran will be uninterested in the job, so maybe Sansa does wind up with it.

This is sounding more and more likely considering that the show does not do subtlety, but rather hits us over the head with what it wants to tell us - Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Bran not being given anything to do other than visions and Arya being constantly associated with revenge and being too wild. At this point, Jon and Dany's ending is what I am not sure about. Jon and Dany may both survive or one of them is dying. Dany dying will be disappointing after spending five books trying to get to Westeros. And then we have all that Nissa-Nissa crap in the books - not sure whether the show will incorporate that. Tyrion will definitely survive and get Casterly Rock or be Hand of a king or queen.

It's a disappointing ending with regard to the Stark kids. Arya spends four books traveling and trying to get home to her brother and her ending is to go off again. In the books, she has this close bond with her wolf.  Arya learning about WF politics from Ned also seemingly leads nowhere. I am hoping that Arya at least plays a big role against the WW in some way - otherwise, what is even the point of this character. Sansa betrays her family to be queen and she ends up in charge of WF, despite having had nothing to do with the politics of the North. Bran is probably stuck as the 3ER having visions.

But it's an ending at this point and I will take whatever I can get considering that GRRM is never going to release another book. As much as I criticize the showrunners writing, I can appreciate how hard it would have been to cobble together a plot and an ending with the bare bones outline that GRRM gave them - And they have to do this in a few months time every year. GRRM has been unable to put out a book in 8 years, despite apparently knowing his ending 21 years ago.

I now doubt that GRRM even had clear endings for his characters as he keeps saying. He has already confessed to regretting some of the foreshadowing in the early books. His world and his characters have expanded so much that he can't stick with his original endings for them anymore - he has to find space in his ending for the 50 additional characters that he spend time writing on. The show resolves plots by doing things like plopping LF and his Vale army North. If GRRM needs to get to the same ending as the show, he too will require some giant leaps in logic and plot holes and I am guessing that is why he is not writing anymore.

Meanwhile, the scripts for the final season have been completed and delivered to HBO:

http://www.thewrap.com/game-thrones-hbo-says-final-season-scripts-done-air-date-not-decided/

If the leaks continue like last year, we will probably know how this epic tale ends by this year!! Who dies, who lives. Who is in charge of what.  I think Jon, Dany and Tyrion may have endings that will hold true to whatever GRRM originally envisioned for them and I am looking forward to reading on freefolk reddit how their story finally ends!

Edited July 27, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

11 hours ago, Francie said:

3 reasons:

1) in the books, people threaten him with that constantly. Over and over and over again. And there's about a dozen occasions where Tyrion himself makes a crack, and then he thinks that he could lose his tongue for saying that. 

2) too many important characters have had to face life after their greatest asset is taken away (Jaime; Theon -- well, his fondest asset anyway; Cersei's beauty with her hair). 

3) Euron has this tongue knife -- and he likes to use it. 

Problem is this was all in the book, I don't believe any of that was said on the show. Euron uses a tongue knife on his hostages, Tyrion wouldn't be his hostage, Tyrion would be Cersei's

[Oscirus]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It's very unlikely that Sansa will end up as queen of anything. There's nothing in the books pointing to that outcome, and all the Sansa queen references disappear from the books when her betrothal to Joffrey positioning her as the future queen ends. Compare this to someone like Jon, who has king references peppered throughout the books. Even Arya, who seems unlikely to end up as queen unless GRRM insists on adhering to what appears to have been his initial endgame--Jon/Arya as king and queen of Westeros--has far more queen references throughout her narrative than Sansa. Arya's the one who named her direwolf after a queen, not Sansa.

I'll skip my reasons for my prediction of a Sansa-Tyrion end game union   because I feel like my reasons are way too long and my proof would likely be biased.

For Sansa as queen, I'm totally coming at this from a show watcher's perspective. Obviously I'll miss some things So here goes:

1. The prophecy- "Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear." Obviously, that could be Dany, she's younger, more beautiful and already a queen, she checks off all the boxes. Problem is all that you hold dear. She didn't take Joffrey, technically, Sansa did, the show made sure to mention that she was an unwitting accomplice in his murder. 

2.Blackwater- Sansa assuming Cersei's duties during that war could be seen as foreshadowing.

The image at about 4:30 very queen like and I don't even think that's the first time that we've seen her like that on this show.

Finally, I tend to think her experiences with Littlefinger and her views on ruling are indicative of someone who's out grown the North and is ready to enter the big game. A few other minor things, but those are the big points

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

This is sounding more and more likely considering that the show does not do subtlety, but rather hits us over the head with what it wants to tell us - Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Bran not being given anything to do other than visions and Arya being constantly associated with revenge and being too wild. At this point, Jon and Dany's ending is what I am not sure about. Jon and Dany may both survive or one of them is dying. Dany dying will be disappointing after spending five books trying to get to Westeros. And then we have all that Nissa-Nissa crap in the books - not sure whether the show will incorporate that. Tyrion will definitely survive and get Casterly Rock or be Hand of a king or queen.

It's a disappointing ending with regard to the Stark kids. Arya spends four books traveling and trying to get home to her brother and her ending is to go off again. In the books, she has this close bond with her wolf.  Arya learning about WF politics from Ned also seemingly leads nowhere. I am hoping that Arya at least plays a big role against the WW in some way - otherwise, what is even the point of this character. Sansa betrays her family to be queen and she ends up in charge of WF, despite having had nothing to do with the politics of the North. Bran is probably stuck as the 3ER having visions.

At this point, I think many fans will ultimately be disappointed at how predictable the ending will turn out to be. The NK defeated (somehow), Cersei and Jaime dead (somehow), Jon and/or Dany as king/queen, Tyrion as Hand and/or Lord of Casterly Rock, Sansa at WF assuming she survives, Bran at WF if she doesn't or in the alternative as some kind of mystical 3ER-type sage figure, and Arya traveling on her own. There's not much there that couldn't have been predicted by an attentive book reader after reading AGOT, but then maybe that's the point.

 

Quote

I now doubt that GRRM even had clear endings for his characters as he keeps saying. He has already confessed to regretting some of the foreshadowing in the early books.

Yes. Some of it was because he had early plans from which he deviated (I think Tyrion getting attacked by the direwolves in AGOT was a hint that GRRM still intended Tyrion to burn down Winterfell at that point as he was going to do in the outline), and some of it was because GRRM felt he had betrayed too much.

 

Quote

If GRRM needs to get to the same ending as the show, he too will require some giant leaps in logic and plot holes and I am guessing that is why he is not writing anymore.

I agree. For starters, there's no plausible way that Arya walks away from the FM scot-free, and I doubt the method GRRM comes up to free her from the FM will be any less ludicrous than what the show did.

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile, the scripts for the final season have been completed and delivered to HBO:

http://www.thewrap.com/game-thrones-hbo-says-final-season-scripts-done-air-date-not-decided/

 

Yay!

 

Quote

If the leaks continue like last year, we will probably know how this epic tale ends by this year!! Who dies, who lives. Who is in charge of what.  

Indeed we will, although again I suspect many fans will be disappointed by how pat and predictable the ending turned out to be. 

 

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I'll skip my reasons for my prediction of a Sansa-Tyrion end game union   because I feel like my reasons are way too long and my proof would likely be biased.

Fair enough. I'm pretty confident Tyrion will end the series a bachelor, perhaps even turning Casterly Rock into his whorehouse after a fashion as Tywin once feared. Dying without legitimate issue and thereby ending Tywin's line would give Tyrion particular satisfaction, I think.

 

Quote

For Sansa as queen, I'm totally coming at this from a show watcher's perspective. Obviously I'll miss some things So here goes:1. The prophecy- "Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear." Obviously, that could be Dany, she's younger, more beautiful and already a queen, she checks off all the boxes. Problem is all that you hold dear.

We don't know that the YMBQ is Sansa. Dany is a better fit. Sansa stepping up at Blackwater makes sense given that at the time she was going to be queen after Cersei; once her betrothal ended, all the queen references disappeared.

[Oscirus]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

We don't know that the YMBQ is Sansa. Dany is a better fit. Sansa stepping up at Blackwater makes sense given that at the time she was going to be queen after Cersei; once her betrothal ended, all the queen references disappeared.

Of course we don't. At this point, it's  only speculation.  Dany doesn't fit with the wording of said prophecy. She doesn't take everything that Cersei holds dear. At most, she takes the throne, but that's not everything. If it turns out to be Dany than I will be terribly disappointed with that prophecy nonsense since it would feel like a cheat.  Sansa stepping up at Black Water even when she was given a chance to escape seems like something more . By that point, she wasn't even invested in being a queen anymore.

There are hints after the betrothal ends, not as many, because she was involved in other story lines, but they're there.

[Wouter]

I originally also was looking at who was taking what from Cersei, but since Margaery's end on the show I put less stock in this. 

The reason being that Margaery was involved in taking Joffrey (in book and show, with Sansa also being involved in both) and the main cause of the loss of Tommen. Meanwhile, Myrcella was taken by someone entirely else; unless we count Arianne as a candidate (but she is disqualified by simply not being in the show, while the prophecy itself is) then none of the main candidates - Dany, Sansa and Margaery - did anything to take Myrcella from Cersei.

So, "take all what Cersei holds dear" apparently may be limited to "what she hold dear at the moment it is taken from her". If so, power is probably what Cersei loves most, along with her own beauty (that seems to be fading anyway) and maybe Jaime. 

If all the younger queen has to do is take Cersei's power, than Dany is a very decent candidate (and Margaery would probably be out of the running, unless the book story is changed drastically by the presence of fAegon) and Sansa becomes an outsider.

OTOH, there are some indications (in book and show) that Sansa and Cersei are quite fixated on one another (contrary to Dany's relative disinterest). Dany turning north without taking out Cersei in the show may still set the stage for a Cersei/Sansa confrontation, and interestingly, a Bran vision from the first book connects Sansa, Arya, the Hound, the mountain and Jaime to one another. If Sansa would somehow cause Jaime to finally turn on Cersei, maybe that could cost Cersei everything she holds dear at that point.