S01.E08: Invisible Self

[Guest]

Yeah, I feel like there are a lot of little inconsistencies.  I also didn't like how the dance kind of did whatever they needed it to at that moment-- revived Scott from death, cured an ALS patient, distracted a shooter, and whatever Prairie thought it'd do to get her to Homer-- open a portal or something?  She died again at the end to get to that portal, but she died in the past to get there, too, and the dance wasn't part of those deaths.  

So was the dance just an illustration of faith?  Maybe that's why the movements were so cringeworthy...to show the dancer fully believed in the power, and that belief itself might've been what caused miracles, in the writer's mind.  And the dancers in the cafeteria believed enough to basically commit suicide (in 99.99% of shootings), which I didn't really buy based on the story but ok.  

I wonder if Homer is named that because it's like 'home'.

Prairie had an ankle monitor on at the end.  Those are used for house arrest.  What did she ever do illegal?  Or was that supposed to suggest she was a prisoner in her own home due to psychiatric issues?  Just due to the campfire chats?  

[numbnut]

33 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Prairie had an ankle monitor on at the end.  Those are used for house arrest.  What did she ever do illegal?  Or was that supposed to suggest she was a prisoner in her own home due to psychiatric issues?  Just due to the campfire chats?

She was off her meds while secretly meeting with minors (at night, no less) so the monitor makes sense.

[theOAfc]

On 12/28/2016 at 4:11 PM, KaleyFirefly said:

She is in the other dimension because she died again. The weird stupid-looking movements didn't do anything except distract the shooter (amazing he didn't shoot them when they popped up to do their silly dance.)

When she dies she can only go the where khatun is though. Khatun is pretty much the portal that connects all the other dimensions. However Prarie said that  in order for her to go to a different dimension she would need the 5 dancing moves. Thats why im wondering if the 5 moves indeed allowed her to jump to another timeline,back to where Homer is,something that she wasnt able to do by simply dying. She needed to die while they danced the moves maybe? Two requirements needed for her to cross timelines. The movements open an invisible portal and her dying is the way to enter the portal.

23 hours ago, Paloma said:

numbnut, now that would make sense--though I'd still need an explanation for the scars and regaining her sight.

Also it still raises the question on how Homer ended up there,in a mental institution,considering that he was indeed a sports player and Prarie even saw him on youtube talking about how he woke up(unless she hallucinated that too) .

Plus,who put her in a mental institution for all these years? Not her parents,who thought she was gone for 7 years,kidnapped and God knows what.

Maybe she is where Homer is held now. Hap told her she wouldnt be able to find them again because they would leave that place. So maybe Hap took Homer and the others to another place,to a different facility and now Prarie was transferred there, after dying from the bullet.

Edited December 29, 2016 by theOAfc

[Guest]

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

She was off her meds while secretly meeting with minors (at night, no less) so the monitor makes sense.

Neither of those things is illegal, though.  She's an adult, she can take or not take meds at her own discretion.  She wasn't even told to take meds in the story we saw, or told to stay away from minors.  Her parents even okayed her leaving the house for an hour at night so she wasn't even breaking any house rules as far as they were concerned.  Though why her mom was walking her home at dawn the last night, I don't know.  

I guess we have to assume she did break laws or otherwise pose a threat to herself or others in the time jump in order to earn an ankle monitor.  

I don't think her 7 years could've been in a mental institution.   She'd be in a missing persons database and her parents would've been notified.  And we don't really lock people up in mental hospitals against their will anymore, unless they're convicted of a crime and even then they rarely go anywhere but to prison.  And if she had been in a mental hospital (or prison) and escaped or been released, I think the FBI would know and not be treating her as a former missing person/trauma victim.  

Hap claiming he'd move the captives is also kind of silly.  The man doesn't work but can just build new underground containment cells left and right?  I chalked that up to an empty threat, which is another reason it bugged me Prairie never got anyone looking for them.  

I thought it was funny that French's two jobs were at an Olive Garden and an Applebees.  Or maybe Applebees hired him after he walked out of Olive Garden.  I waitressed at an Olive Garden for two weeks in college.  That job did suck.  People would come in for $6 unlimited soup, salad and bread sticks for lunch and run you ragged and leave you a buck.  

[Sakura12]

I think being caught having secret meetings with minors while taking off her clothes off would make their parents press charges. 

I think she was kidnapped by someone since they did mention as someone else pointed out in her medical examination, they found out she was kept underground, near a mine, for a long enough period of time to have vitamin D deficiency and dental decay.  

[Guest]

Her being in a house with minors in a sports bra isn't illegal.  I suppose the builder could get them all on trespassing there, though.  If they'd just met in the woods or something there would've been no laws broken.  Maybe that's why they used the abandoned house to begin with, from the writing perspective.  

And what BBA did was illegal, I think.  Speaking of, how come she never berated Steve for not playing his part in that molestation act?  It was kind of funny how poorly that plan failed.  The one man who could hear her cries just got in his car and drove off.  I probably would've, too.  She could go in the store and ask the clerk to call 911 or call it herself.  I guess she was relying on a good samaritan to step in and help her just nab Steve from the men with no one calling the police.  

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Just one thing I want to throw into the mix of hypotheticals, suppositions etc. (and caveat, my memory ain't what it used to be so I may be misremembering the first episode wrongly to begin with, in which case apologies) ...

Re: her "regaining" her sight ... is it possible her blindness has always been, for lack of a better word, "hysterical" blindness rather than actual physical loss of vision? For some reason, I'm remembering that she lost her sight TO Khatun in one of her earliest NDEs (the drowning?) ... so if the blindness was indeed psychosomatic due to trauma, then it would make sense she could regain it through another trauma (in this case, I guess, the head injury). 

Also, does anyone here think that there was any intended connection between her story about her father working in mining in Russia and her being captive in a house near an abandoned mine? Or just coincidence?

Finally ... IS there a plan for a second season? I assumed this was a one-off for sure.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Also, does anyone here think that there was any intended connection between her story about her father working in mining in Russia and her being captive in a house near an abandoned mine? Or just coincidence?

I thought the Russian mines might've been thrown into the story to shed more doubt on her incarceration tale... Maybe the minerals and copper or whatever in her system were from a childhood near mines?  Though why make up the Homer stuff but not the Russia stuff.  And what would a little girl be doing in metal mines.  And the copper was in her back wounds.  

Or they're just a metaphor for the subconscious or finding value deep within or something.

[ExMathMajor]

On 12/18/2016 at 6:22 PM, Fat Elvis 007 said:

Am I the only one here who found the ending preposterous? 

It was one thing to watch the magical powers of interpretive dance solve equally ridiculous problems. "One of the psychic hostages has been murdered by our captor! DANCE AT IT" legit made me cry. It was a beautiful scene. "We need to heal this woman with ALS!! DANCE AT IT" less so, but still fairly compelling. "Columbine! DANCE AT IT" simply pushed my suspension of disbelief past its limit. You can't just bring up such a serious and realistic issue as a last minute plot device and then solve it through the most ridiculous magical element of your entire series. It was borderline offensive.

Even worse that there was no foreshadowing for this and we literally don't even know who the shooter was. I feel like there were ways they could have justified this at least a bit more. The first episode had OA expressing empathy for violent people, talking about how our dimension was "breaking down" and people like Steve were feeling it and reacting with violence. If we had seen this happening with the shooter it may have at least felt more natural and organic, and may have tied in with the themes better. 

I still enjoyed the series, and the pilot is one of my favorite things ever. But just a terrible, terrible ending. 

Except for the fact that I didn't enjoy the series or the pilot, I agree with all of this. Yet I watched the whole thing because...

On 12/19/2016 at 1:52 AM, RachelKM said:

The completionist in me demanded it...But I cannot say I liked it.  I think part of it was that I liked, or was at least more interested in, everyone more than OA herself.  Also, it was sort of meandering and oddly paced.

The OA herself bugged the shit out of me. In episode 3 (?) when she was telling her parents she couldn't stay cooped up in the house, I said to the TV, "Well, get yourself a damn job so you can move your ass out!" Or she could have moved into that abandoned development although I had a really hard time believing that more people (specifically, the police) didn't know it was a local hangout and responded accordingly. But there was SO MUCH in here that was hard to believe.

On 12/23/2016 at 9:49 PM, jaigurudeva said:

Plot holes and shaky character motivation try to cast a little doubt onto OA's story, but when all that and more happens outside of OA's narrative frame, the audience can't believe the writer's story, not just OA's story. It's like if, at the end of The Life of Pi, once Pi has told his ambiguous tales and asked his audience to decide for themselves, the Japanese officials (or biographer, in the movie) walk outside and get mauled by Richard Parker.

We're meant to be wondering "was it real?" and not "is this for real?"

ALL of this. It was sloppy storytelling from start to finish. Yet my opinion seems to be in the minority, both here and on my FB feed.

[Kimmyd216]

Maybe I missed this part, but how did all the parents know they were meeting in the abandoned house? Who told about that and everything else?

Edited December 31, 2016 by Kimmyd216

[KaleyFirefly]

16 hours ago, ExMathMajor said:

Except for the fact that I didn't enjoy the series or the pilot, I agree with all of this. Yet I watched the whole thing because...

The OA herself bugged the shit out of me. In episode 3 (?) when she was telling her parents she couldn't stay cooped up in the house, I said to the TV, "Well, get yourself a damn job so you can move your ass out!" Or she could have moved into that abandoned development although I had a really hard time believing that more people (specifically, the police) didn't know it was a local hangout and responded accordingly. But there was SO MUCH in here that was hard to believe.

ALL of this. It was sloppy storytelling from start to finish. Yet my opinion seems to be in the minority, both here and on my FB feed.

I agree with you. Sloppy storytelling. The fact that there are so many posts on here of people trying to figure out what the ending meant, in addition to what most of the whole story even meant or what really happened, means that the writers didn't do their job. 

I don't need all the answers at once or everything over-explained or tidily wrapped up or a happy ending or whatever. But I do require that if I give my time to watching something, it's going to make sense, and have an actual ending of some sort. A "let the audience decide what it means" ending is total laziness and disrespect to the viewers who bothered to watch it.

[Guest]

I think my least favorite thing about it is the title.  What in the world made this girl the original angel?  Just writing her as an angel wasn't pretentious enough?  

[Sister Spooky]

I could have sworn the lunch worker who tackled the shooter was Hap.  Did anyone else notice that?

[ramble]

I know a lot of people loved the show, but for me, it was a self-indulgent series that seemed  overly impressed with itself.  By the end, I felt like I had watched someone's junior high essay come to life. The writing prompt must've said something about a topic that will provoke deep thought. While it tried, it's a junior high essay, and they often get bogged down in sentimentality and consider confusing storytelling the same as thought-provoking. Thankfully, I binge watched this over the holidays while I was sick for a couple of days. Otherwise, it might've really made me angry. As it was, I did a little spoiler reading while I was watching and was prepared for the ending.  I almost didn't make it through all the episodes, but I played games on my iPad while it played in the background. I could never truly give it my full attention. It was just too in love with itself and its big ideas. When the trusting five did their interpretive dance to subdue the school shooter I started laughing so hard I had tears running down my face. The ending was so poorly done, so patched  together, and so completely ridiculous that any warm feelings that might have built up around the school five, or even the prisoner "angels" was totally lost. I never truly liked Nina/Prairie/OA, and by the end of it I was ready for one of her near death experiences to become permanent so she would shut up. 

[KaveDweller]

I don't totally get why Prairie/OA wasn't giving any information on Hap or the other prisoners when she got home (if you believe her story is real or that she believes it is real). I know she thinks they are in another dimension, but even she admitted she doesn't really know what that means. Did their bodies leave, or are they all still in the bunker in some kind of comatose state? Maybe it didn't even work and they are all still being held there. She could at least let the family members of of the others know what happened to them. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Their dancing at the cafeteria looked like a flash mob. 

[suzeecat]

I binge-watched the first seven episodes of this show over the holiday weekend.  I wanted so badly to finish but had to get some sleep in order to get to work the next day (yesterday, 1/3/17).  All day while at work I looked forward to getting home to finish and see the conclusion of this fabulous tale.  I told several co-workers how engrossed I was and how compelling the story line was.  I came back to work today after watching episode 8 last night and told everyone "never mind".  I feel foolish.  And angry.  And like I've been scammed....

[RainbowBrite]

Based on some quick online research, and my general feeling from watching this show, Brit Marling seems to me to be pretentious, and to see herself as such a special snowflake. I had not heard of her before, and didn't realize that she had also written/co-created the show. Before knowing that, I thought that the actress must have struggled through some parts, but knowing that she wrote that for herself gives me secondhand embarrassment. 

[theOAfc]

On 1/2/2017 at 9:46 PM, KaveDweller said:

I don't totally get why Prairie/OA wasn't giving any information on Hap or the other prisoners when she got home (if you believe her story is real or that she believes it is real). I know she thinks they are in another dimension, but even she admitted she doesn't really know what that means. Did their bodies leave, or are they all still in the bunker in some kind of comatose state? Maybe it didn't even work and they are all still being held there. She could at least let the family members of of the others know what happened to them. 

I dont think that anyone would believe her really. She even says at some point that she didnt tell her story to her parents because of this. Or something similar anyway.

11 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

Based on some quick online research, and my general feeling from watching this show, Brit Marling seems to me to be pretentious, and to see herself as such a special snowflake. I had not heard of her before, and didn't realize that she had also written/co-created the show. Before knowing that, I thought that the actress must have struggled through some parts, but knowing that she wrote that for herself gives me secondhand embarrassment. 

To me it seems she just wanted to say a tale. It sure has many questions(plot holes?) that will probably never been answered but the show is something different and if it gets a second season ,it might be given a good closure. 

As for her, writing a lead role that she plays,i dont see anything wrong with that. Happens in many shows. I dont know much about  Brit Marling,but based on her social media presence ,she is not bragging or over hyping herself or anything(maybe you can let us know what makes you think she is pretentious,unless of course you think she is Prarie or something-or i might just google "Brit Marling, pretentious"). And her show is in my opinion better than the many average tv shows out there who last for 10 years with lame acting/writing/directing. 

The show reminds me a little of a french tv show i watched last year,called "the returned",which had a better season 1 than the OA,but surely had weird writing elements and many questions that led to nowhere,just like the OA. I hated how it ended though. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, theOAfc said:

I dont think that anyone would believe her really. She even says at some point that she didnt tell her story to her parents because of this. Or something similar anyway.

Leaving out the supernatural stuff, which the FBI wouldn't need anyway, the story isn't that outlandish.  Plus she has all their names.  The FBI could confirm major parts of her story in 5 minutes of research.  

Her not telling is the most outlandish thing and the strongest evidence that she never had co-captives and maybe not even a captor.  

[RainbowBrite]

2 hours ago, theOAfc said:

To me it seems she just wanted to say a tale. It sure has many questions(plot holes?) that will probably never been answered but the show is something different and if it gets a second season ,it might be given a good closure. 

As for her, writing a lead role that she plays,i dont see anything wrong with that. Happens in many shows. I dont know much about  Brit Marling,but based on her social media presence ,she is not bragging or over hyping herself or anything(maybe you can let us know what makes you think she is pretentious,unless of course you think she is Prarie or something-or i might just google "Brit Marling, pretentious"). And her show is in my opinion better than the many average tv shows out there who last for 10 years with lame acting/writing/directing. 

The show reminds me a little of a french tv show i watched last year,called "the returned",which had a better season 1 than the OA,but surely had weird writing elements and many questions that led to nowhere,just like the OA. I hated how it ended though. 

Obviously this is only my opinion, as stated above. The sum of my knowledge on her is limited to one interview I read, so please take my opinions with that in mind. I think that taking the dancing so seriously was what bothered me the most (and I concede that in this interview it was her writing partner who was more defensive about the dancing, but they both were: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/oa-creators-defend-movements-959026) was a major turn-off for me. In the interview she stated that the movements were one of the three core aspects of the show from its inception.

I have absolutely no issue with people writing roles for themselves, especially women who are not getting the types of roles they want, and I applaud her for her tenacity and effort. I do not like the end product. The fact that she created a unique show with a concept I have not seen before kept me watching the whole show. I cannot get past the ("*don't you dare call in interpretive*") dancing.

[Guest]

I like the end product but still find that article pretentious and a bit insulting in parts.  Like this one, that suggests if we respond to the movements with cynicism it's because we're terrified of the world.  Um, no.  

We live in a time that's really complex and really scary and the way we've protected ourselves against that terror is by putting on a cloak of irony and cool and cynicism, and those things are effective.

Maybe I would've responded better to it if it had been more yoga-like.  As it was, I totally missed their explanation given in the article, from the show, I mean.

I do like her comments about suburbia.  

[theOAfc]

43 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

Obviously this is only my opinion, as stated above. The sum of my knowledge on her is limited to one interview I read, so please take my opinions with that in mind. I think that taking the dancing so seriously was what bothered me the most (and I concede that in this interview it was her writing partner who was more defensive about the dancing, but they both were: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/oa-creators-defend-movements-959026) was a major turn-off for me. In the interview she stated that the movements were one of the three core aspects of the show from its inception.

I have absolutely no issue with people writing roles for themselves, especially women who are not getting the types of roles they want, and I applaud her for her tenacity and effort. I do not like the end product. The fact that she created a unique show with a concept I have not seen before kept me watching the whole show. I cannot get past the ("*don't you dare call in interpretive*") dancing.

Oh i read this interview. I didnt find it pretentious or insulting as someone else said but i do think they over did it with the defensive comments about the movements which shows they know many people didnt like them. 

 

I honestly thought you had some juicy gossip to share about her, based on your previous comment.

[numbnut]

56 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

I have absolutely no issue with people writing roles for themselves, especially women who are not getting the types of roles they want, and I applaud her for her tenacity and effort. I do not like the end product. The fact that she created a unique show with a concept I have not seen before kept me watching the whole show. I cannot get past the ("*don't you dare call in interpretive*") dancing.

They don't want viewers to see the movements as an interpretive dance when the movements are the epitome of an interpretive dance? That's funny. Just because they don't take the time explain each movement doesn't mean that it doesn't have an interpretation. If each movement is meaningless, why do it? Why not replace one movement with a chicken dance or moonwalk? I also don't buy the dance as angelic. If I imagine angels dancing, I don't see something that an L.A.-based choreographer would think up. The secret handshake in Sound of My Voice was just as silly. I think the word "visionary" is thrown around too much when it comes to newer filmmakers. Shyamalan was immediately called a visionary until he took himself too seriously and fell flat on his face (repeatedly). Marling/Batmanglij may share the same fate if they think they're misunderstood geniuses and that everything they write is a masterpiece or too advanced for our tiny minds to comprehend. The movements are so advanced that they're akin to alien technology? Really?

Edited January 5, 2017 by numbnut

[hincandenza]

Call me crazy but I.... ended up rather liking this, and how it ended.  It wasn't perfect, not by a loooong shot, and had some big plots holes and dire need for retcon.  That said, it really was more of an extended art film than setting up some multi-season cash cow, and I was intrigued enough through the first couple of episodes to stick with it.  I've wasted far more time on far worse shows, after all!

Still... it was at end not a sci-fi spectacle but a human show.  To me one subtext of this series was a look at our media consumption habits, along with our cynicism/lack of faith in anything.  This will seem an odd comparison, but Prairie is almost like Jodie Foster's character at the end of "Contact": she's had an experience, and maybe has been in touch with something, but there isn't the evidence and thus it's a story about faith as well as science (whooshing sounds off Saturn!).  Had that movie been filmed as a story-within-a-story campfire retelling like "The OA", would it have been less of a classic because the movie wasn't making it unambiguously clear that what happened did happen?  I think- to me- the show seemed to have a lot to say in an oblique way about our relationship to media- a demand for binge watching, pat answers, and satisfying resolutions, and for media to stand in as proxies for lived experiences and philosophy.  In talking to a few of my friends who've seen this show, it' interesting how polarizing the show is: when people aren't liking it, they're really disliking it and even seem betrayed.

 

I called it earlier that she'd turn out to be basically delusional, and that I'd be okay with that if it was handled decently, which I think it was.  I mean, sure, we could have gotten the show where it's unambiguous that Prairie and the others are angels, a 5-faced diety poking through the divine to our earthly plane so we may sense and experience the infinity of lives.  We could have gotten those Khatun galaxy room shots and been told this was the undeniable truth in-show, and by season 3 we'd have Hap as villain-turned-ally to go to war with Khatunland while allied with the crystal skull aliens from the last Indiana Jones movie.  It could have spelled out more explicitly that Hap represented humankind's own tendency to not only cruelty and dehumanization, but to cutting ourselves off from the divine and as the sheriff's wife put it "trapping angels".  I mean, I think the point there is that if you do believe in a soul, then in many ways our every day treatment of ourselves and others is functioning the same as Hap's treatment of those prisoners; stuck on this mortal plane, engaged in pointless distractions while time ticks away, and having lost a sense of connection to something bigger (granted, I'm a diehard athiest, but I still like such stories!).

There is enough there to plausibly support any of the three many intrerpretations: Prairie was completely crazy but was healing (until she snapped again and ran off to get herself shot); Prairie was crazy but knowingly if not maliciously spinning a tall tale (hence the books); Prairie was genuinely in touch with something divine/supernatural (but still also mentally ill).  That the show didn't focus on resolving that can be a knock on the show- but I'd consider it more a fatal flaw when in a show like "Lost" or the like with a multiyear commitment, than an 8-episode art piece that stands on its own with minimal time commitment.  

I don't think the point of the show is "Angels are real, we all live eternally, and Prairie totally moved to the next dimension", since the "truth" of such things in our TV shows- like in Prairie's stories in the attic- is meaningless.  Even if the show made it clear her story was 100% true, it wouldn't change a damn thing in our actual, real lives- not in shared media experiences, but in the physical present of our living bodies.

[maystone]

On 2017-01-01 at 4:46 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think my least favorite thing about it is the title.  What in the world made this girl the original angel?  Just writing her as an angel wasn't pretentious enough?  

Uh-huh. I'm guessing that Gabriel and Michael might have a few words to say to her on that topic.

[maystone]

That ending was a slap in the face to this viewer at least. You know, I don't need to have all of the questions answered. I'm a huge fan of The Leftovers, and that is a show that gives zero fucks about answering our questions or the questions of the characters themselves for that matter. And I can fanwank with the best of them - as long as the show writers adhere to the inner logic of their created world. As has been stated frequently above, the plot holes and the contradictions in The OA appear to me to show that there is no inner logic in the story. There just isn't a satisfactory explanation for the events spun out over the eight hours no matter which conclusion you choose to accept: she's an angel or she's mentally ill.

I didn't hate the show, but I did expect that the last hour would be more … organic? Instead of preposterous.  Someone above had said that they felt betrayed, and I concur. I went along with the story in good faith (which is kind of ironic now that I think of it) only to hit an ending that had all the reward of "And then the alarm went off and I woke up."

The final shot of Steve pretty much sums it up for me. He's running after the ambulance, desperate and pleading, "Wait! Angel! Take me with you!" Absolutely heartbreaking and a pretty crappy way for a deity to treat someone she used for her own purposes. Even if she were just playing out an elaborate fantasy, it's still cruel to get someone to believe in you - really believe - and then abandon him. She had assured them all that they wouldn't be taken with her unless they chose to enter the stream. I'd say that Steve chose, and yet there he is, left in the metaphorical dust. I'm still ticked off about that, and I didn't even like Steve! It's that kind of careless regard for the supporting characters that just annoyed me throughout the show. They were all just devices.

[janie jones]

I wasn't into the ending, but that isn't why I didn't like the show overall.  I mean, with regard to the ending, did they even show her recurring dream?  I remember there being a gun at one point, but I didn't know much about a recurring dream.  Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

The reason I didn't like the show overall is that there were too many events that made me yell at the TV.  Why didn't they say anything when the doctor brought Prairie to the dungeon?  Why didn't they plan what they were going to write on the bill before they started passing it around?  Why did Homer get a razor?  What was the FBI guy doing in the house?

[Bobcatkitten]

I don't need every tiny thing tied up in a bow but there were no answers at all and that was horrible writing and made me disappointed overall in the show even though I thought there were some good moments and good performances. 

When they started going down the movement route I knew I wouldn't like it because I couldn't get past the reality that they could totally have gotten out. He didn't know she was blind for years. All it would take is a few stab wounds or an iron skillet to the head. Take him by surprise and kill him. Then call the police or drive to the nearest town and save your friends. It actually wasn't that complicated. 

If I were to throw my two cents into the theories Prairie said several times she only survived because she wasn't alone. I sort of believe she created those other captives in her mind so she wasn't alone - a defense mechanism to get through.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

I sort of believe she created those other captives in her mind so she wasn't alone - a defense mechanism to get through.

I think this was probably the main intent but then why did the writers have her obsessed with saving 'Homer' if all along he was a stand-in for being 'home'?  She showed no appreciation for her home and parents.  Someone recreating a family in their imagination then getting their real one back should act like their life has a huge resolution, not a huge new problem, I feel like.  

I guess the message could be, "I like my imaginary family better than any real one I've experienced so I'll jump off a bridge then compile a gang of misfit followers instead of just trying to be myself again.  A nobody with dull, aging parents."  

Between this show and This Is Us, I would be afraid to adopt a child.  

[kelslamu]

Heh, maybe it was all in Steve's head.  He was the only one left chasing the ambulance in the road. lol  I wanted to know how mad scientist guy took them to the brink of death and brought them back all with a hood of water.  Maybe I missed something obvious or they just didn't feel the need to say how he was doing anything medically, but it bothered me.  The dance movements did nothing for me.  I was just sitting there with my mouth open at the end wondering wtf happened. 

[kelslamu]

So, did the sheriff put the gun to Hap's head because he knew he had prisoners?  I kind of thought it was for something else that wasn't disclosed.  Maybe I fell asleep and missed something here.

[PinkRibbons]

I keep thinking about the idea that all her cell mates are counterparts of the people she told the story to. Obviously French saw himself as the basis for Homer, and I think we're supposed to see Steve in Scott, but that leaves Renata and Rachel for Buck and Ms. BA. I also wondered what the significance of Rachel never receiving a movement was supposed to be. Renata seems like Buck's exact opposite; where Buck is going through a drastic change in his life, Renata wanted to stay in her own world and wanted nothing more. And I'm already forgetting, but was Rachel's backstory about losing a sibling? That would make her a clear avatar for Ms. BA, but then what are we supposed to take from the fact that Rachel never got any of the movements?

Do you think the writers actually had an answer for any of these questions or just slipped in stuff to make it seem deeper than it was? I still don't understand the point of the open front doors.

[janie jones]

14 hours ago, kelslamu said:

So, did the sheriff put the gun to Hap's head because he knew he had prisoners?  I kind of thought it was for something else that wasn't disclosed.  Maybe I fell asleep and missed something here.

He saw the people in the cages on Hap's monitors.  (And perhaps remembered hearing screams before Hap cranked up the music previously.) 

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

And I'm already forgetting, but was Rachel's backstory about losing a sibling? That would make her a clear avatar for Ms. BA, but then what are we supposed to take from the fact that Rachel never got any of the movements?

I was confused about that, because at one point they referred to her brother being in a wheelchair. So at first I thought he was injured in the accident, but then she said he never heard her sing post-NDE. 

I wondered about the significance of her never getting movements as well.

[Cranky One]

On 1/3/2017 at 11:36 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Their dancing at the cafeteria looked like a flash mob. 

Ha! Or the African Anteater Ritual from the original Can't Buy Me Love! LOL

I asked for recommendations for my next binge and this was the majority of responses. I'm also in the minority that did not like this show at all. I thought it dragged out way too long, her mother was annoying, and I just couldn't get past the dancing. I also wasn't sure why they really bothered with the kids' present day lives. To show their lives sucked? And the teacher addition to the mix was just strange. BUT...like a few others, I had to stick it out to the end.

But, what I really want to know is where did they go to the bathroom?? It must've been pretty ripe down there! Did they just go in the babbling brook running through their cells? Also, since Scott had lesions on his body, I took that to mean that he had AIDS (I just remember that from Tom Hanks in Philadelphia)? And who cut their hair, etc? I can't imagine Hap shaving Homer's face every day, yet they wore the same clothes for years.

It's the little things that I need answers to, dammit!

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Cranky One said:

Ha! Or the African Anteater Ritual from the original Can't Buy Me Love! LOL

OMG.

I can't.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, Cranky One said:

But, what I really want to know is where did they go to the bathroom?? It must've been pretty ripe down there! Did they just go in the babbling brook running through their cells? Also, since Scott had lesions on his body, I took that to mean that he had AIDS (I just remember that from Tom Hanks in Philadelphia)? And who cut their hair, etc? I can't imagine Hap shaving Homer's face every day, yet they wore the same clothes for years.

It's the little things that I need answers to, dammit!

I think they did use the brook as a bathroom. They showed Homer shaving in a previous ep (when Prairie threw up in the water). No idea if he also cuts his own hair.

[Paloma]

Just as important (to me) as where they went to the bathroom is what did they use for toilet paper? And what did the women do when they had periods? (Though I guess it is plausible that they stopped having them due to stress, etc.)

[JustaPerson]

I think there were toilets in the cells. I remember seeing them in a wider shot of the whole structure. 

Also there was no way those books were hers, she only regained her sight like what 4 years ago? Not to mention Hap didn't even know so I doubt Prairie spent a lot of time learning to read (with her eyes) in that time. She would have been reading at an elementary school level, not reading big advanced books like those. If they were in braille it would have made sense.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

Also there was no way those books were hers, she only regained her sight like what 4 years ago? Not to mention Hap didn't even know so I doubt Prairie spent a lot of time learning to read (with her eyes) in that time. She would have been reading at an elementary school level, not reading big advanced books like those. If they were in braille it would have made sense.

That is a really good point, but I wonder if the writers even considered the notion? The blindness seemed to only exist so they could have the miracle of her getting her sight back.

[janie jones]

Well and also, how was she able to look stuff up on YouTube?  I can see her being able to touch-type, and I honestly don't know how blind people use computers, although they do, so I'm sure she had experience.  But in addition to the reading issues, it would have been literally her first time using hand-eye coordination to use a mouse (or a touch pad; I can't remember if the computer at home had a mouse, but the one at the library would have), and I've seen adults using a mouse for the first time, and they don't take to it at easily as she did.

On 1/16/2017 at 7:12 AM, Cranky One said:

It's the little things that I need answers to, dammit!

Yes!

[Guest]

I don't know if we're supposed to think her lack of difficulty with a mouse or a book was bad acting or that they're clues that her whole story is BS and she's had her sight back and been in the real world for some time, not locked in a cellar.  The more I think about it, the more I think it's the latter.  

[KaveDweller]

On 1/20/2017 at 9:49 AM, janie jones said:

Well and also, how was she able to look stuff up on YouTube?  I can see her being able to touch-type, and I honestly don't know how blind people use computers, although they do, so I'm sure she had experience.  But in addition to the reading issues, it would have been literally her first time using hand-eye coordination to use a mouse (or a touch pad; I can't remember if the computer at home had a mouse, but the one at the library would have), and I've seen adults using a mouse for the first time, and they don't take to it at easily as she did.

Yes!

They made a point of showing that the computer in her room was set to have a screen reader reading text for her and that she wasn't using a mouse she was using a tab button to move around. When Steve tried to use her computer he didn't know how to do it and she had to show him the tab button/device.

I once tried using a computer with a screen reader turned on, which is how a blind person uses one to hear what is on screen. I have no idea how they do it.

[janie jones]

Quote

They made a point of showing that the computer in her room was set to have a screen reader reading text for her and that she wasn't using a mouse she was using a tab button to move around. When Steve tried to use her computer he didn't know how to do it and she had to show him the tab button/device.

That answers that!  But what about the library?

Edited January 26, 2017 by janie jones

[Guest]

I think adults using a mouse for the first time figure it out in a few seconds.  So for nits, it's not one I'd choose to pick but different things bother different people.  The bigger 'HMMM' is the Amazon books.  But like I said, I think those were probably there to purposely make the story ambiguous, not as an oops.  

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, janie jones said:

That answers that!  But what about the library?

I don't actually remember the scene in the library. But, I think since libraries are usually funded by the state/town, they are supposed to be equipped to support people with disabilities. So it's possible they would have a computer set up for someone who was blind, and let Prairie use it due to her circumstances . Or it's a major continuity error. 

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think adults using a mouse for the first time figure it out in a few seconds.  So for nits, it's not one I'd choose to pick but different things bother different people.  The bigger 'HMMM' is the Amazon books.  But like I said, I think those were probably there to purposely make the story ambiguous, not as an oops.  

My father couldn't use a mouse for the longest time. He kept wanting to use two hands and complained that newer computers wouldn't just let him use DOS commands like in the good old days. He just could not get the hang of it. He was older than Prairie though, I don't know if that makes a difference.

[LeGrandElephant]

Watching this, and already hating it. Doesn’t the sheriff dude realize he can ask the people in the basement if they can cure his wife while also freeing them? Hap didn’t even bother to lie that they can only do the healing with his help. The obvious thing for the sheriff to do is go ahead with freeing the prisoners, and then also sort of awkwardly ask if the healing thing is true and if so can they please help his wife? 

But, man, watching them do this terrible interpretive dance never ceases to be completely ridiculous. 

Cannot understand the mom not having told the police about that note. That could have helped them find her! Given that she was blind, I doubt the police would have blown it off as oh she’s probably fine. 

Oh man, now they’re in the cafeteria… I thought it was going to be that OA runs in and tackles the gunman, but no, apparently this magic dance actually does something. Or was the gunman just so confused by how bad the dance was that he forget to shoot anyone? I’m not sure that scene really validates any kind of supernatural aspect to the show. 

So did we never find out what happened to Homer and the others, or even if they ever existed? And we never found out why she was jumping off a bridge? I feel like I wasted my time watching this. But, I think that was clear from a couple episodes ago. And I don’t think a clear resolution as to whether OA is just mentally ill or whether the movements actually work would have made me feel any better, because either one of those is still an annoying and unsatisfying conclusion.

On 12/18/2016 at 5:22 PM, Fat Elvis 007 said:

Am I the only one here who found the ending preposterous?
It was one thing to watch the magical powers of interpretive dance solve equally ridiculous problems. "One of the psychic hostages has been murdered by our captor! DANCE AT IT" legit made me cry. It was a beautiful scene. "We need to heal this woman with ALS!! DANCE AT IT" less so, but still fairly compelling. "Columbine! DANCE AT IT" simply pushed my suspension of disbelief past its limit. You can't just bring up such a serious and realistic issue as a last minute plot device and then solve it through the most ridiculous magical element of your entire series. It was borderline offensive.

Even worse that there was no foreshadowing for this and we literally don't even know who the shooter was. I feel like there were ways they could have justified this at least a bit more. The first episode had OA expressing empathy for violent people, talking about how our dimension was "breaking down" and people like Steve were feeling it and reacting with violence. If we had seen this happening with the shooter it may have at least felt more natural and organic, and may have tied in with the themes better.
I still enjoyed the series, and the pilot is one of my favorite things ever. But just a terrible, terrible ending. 

I totally agree the ending was preposterous, ridiculous, and borderline offensive. Though I'm apparently a colder person than you, because I had already reached "preposterous" after the first "dance at it" scene. Though I do really like your description of "DANCE AT IT!"

Oh yeah, and I forgot that it turns out she doesn't even actually know if they went to another dimension, so she is totally unjustified in not trying to get the police and FBI to start looking for the captives!

On 12/18/2016 at 8:08 PM, kieyra said:

I guess it was sort of the spiritual successor to Donnie Darko? 

That's actually a good point. 

On 12/20/2016 at 10:29 AM, RedHackle said:

Re: her books -  isn't it possible that she bought those books recently - because they were related to her life and ordeal? And that she wasn't so much hiding them under her bed as just keeping them private. That may be a stretch, but I didn't really have a problem understanding that.

Yeah, I didn't really think the books were that big of a red flag. If they were already believing how ridiculous her story was, why does her having some of these books bother them? She might have bought them because they  were related to her issues. Also I'm surprised they didn't all think of The Odessey and the Illiad when she first mentioned the name Homer, but other than the name, was there anything in common with the plot of either book?

On 12/20/2016 at 6:34 PM, millennium said:

The story strongly suggests that the whole abduction experience was a purposeful deception on the part of Nina/Prairie.   The stash of books from which she could have cobbled together the lie points in that direction, as does the fact that she once she got on better meds she enrolled in an online creative writing course (which came out of the blue and stuck out like a sore thumb).

But if that's the case, where was she for 7 years (her disappearance is not in question).  How was her sight restored?   How did she come to be on the bridge in the first scene?  

I won't mind if these questions are never answered.   Better this whole mess, and its creator, just go away.

Haha yes. At first I was annoyed that you were saying you didn't mind if those questions were never answered, like that meant it was ok for the show not to answer them. But your final sentence made it worth it.

On 12/20/2016 at 10:10 PM, numbnut said:

The story went from Egoyan territory to Shyamalan pretty quick. ("Swing away!")

I don't know who Egoyan is but I've been mad about that "swing away" bit from Signs for years!

On 12/29/2016 at 9:04 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Hap claiming he'd move the captives is also kind of silly.  The man doesn't work but can just build new underground containment cells left and right?  I chalked that up to an empty threat, which is another reason it bugged me Prairie never got anyone looking for them.  

I thought Hap was saying he'd move them to another dimension, not to a new prison. But, it still doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't have the FBI looking for them, because she doesn't actually know if the whole moving to another dimension thing would work, especially with Hap apparently joining in on the dancing instead of her. 

On 1/20/2017 at 8:49 AM, janie jones said:

Well and also, how was she able to look stuff up on YouTube?  I can see her being able to touch-type, and I honestly don't know how blind people use computers, although they do, so I'm sure she had experience.  But in addition to the reading issues, it would have been literally her first time using hand-eye coordination to use a mouse (or a touch pad; I can't remember if the computer at home had a mouse, but the one at the library would have), and I've seen adults using a mouse for the first time, and they don't take to it at easily as she did.

Actually I think this was answered pretty well (though many other things weren't). When she first got back to her parents house and started looking stuff up on her computer, it had the voiceover assist thing on where the computer automatically reads out loud what is on the screen, and it was clearly set up for a blind person to use. She didn't turn off the voiceover thing even though she could now see. And when Steve came to use her computer to set up the router, he was confused that there was no mouse, and she had some other way of controlling it that was designed for blind people.

Oh, I see someone already answered that. But then are asking what about the library? I don't know, I have no memory of a library in the show?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I thought Hap was saying he'd move them to another dimension, not to a new prison. But, it still doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't have the FBI looking for them, because she doesn't actually know if the whole moving to another dimension thing would work, especially with Hap apparently joining in on the dancing instead of her. 

I never understood this other dimension stuff she referred to.  So the dance does whatever they want?  Raises the dead, cures ALS, stops shooters *and* allows interdimensional travel?  I'm ok with fantasy and supernatural stories but I would prefer there be a logic to the magic.  

[stillshimpy]

Well, I enjoyed it but I think the ending was purposefully bizarre because what the five end up doing is committing a tremendous act of faith in Prairie and each other.  I don't know if we're meant to believe that their dancing stopped anyone else from being hurt or killed (one of the movements is for healing) but the point was even with all of those questions and it seems just as likely that she bought the books not to invent her reality -- because most of those stories didn't have a lot to do with the stories of the captors -- but because she was searching for parts of the strange reality she'd lived.  

We do know she was missing though, the mother hiding her note was to make sure that they'd consider her a missing person.  So she wasn't just hanging out in a subway, playing violin for 7 years.   The police were able to identify her and get in touch with her parents, she had been a missing person. 

I think the point was simply that they all did this, despite it not making any sense, despite having questions.  

As to the whole "Why wouldn't she just tell people where the captives were"...because they aren't there any longer.  Not because Hap said he'd move them but because he was doing to take all of them to the alternate dimension.   When he told her she'd never been essential to the process, that she was disposable, it was because Hap had the movements he wanted, needed.   He could kill all the captives, or use them to get out of that dimension.  

Does it make sense?  Well hell no, it does not.  

I'm okay with that.  I'm okay with having watched a very odd fairytale that was seemingly more about how people can save each other.   I don't know what the full truth of Prairie's story was but in Homer's "I swallowed a sea creature" NDE he was running through what looked like a medical facility with tile on the walls.  I think that's where Prairie was meant to be in the scene where she says, "Homer?"  

I personally liked this series a lot more than Stranger Things and it truly was weirder than hell.   I have to give it up for the actors who were just all in on those purposefully bizarre dance moves.   They had to be stranger than hell because actual faith is....for those who have it...it's senseless stuff but it is very real to those that have it.   No matter how bizarre it sounds to those of us on the outside of it and I think that's what the ultimate point of the story was.  

They didn't know whether or not Prairie was telling the truth.  They didn't know what to believe but she'd helped each of them find their way out of their own darkness and in the end, they had faith....and it did do something.  Whether or not it was connected to anything in other dimensions or a god source or what....it either distracted the shooter or it stopped the harm or....something.   

But the point doesn't seem to be whether or not we can take the dance seriously, I mean, only if it had been performed by John Cleese clones in a row could that have been stranger and sillier.  It's just that they still did, they still connected, they still all took that plunge together and acted on the important part of what Prairie told Winchell:  they survived because they weren't alone, they had each other.  

I'm not making a big stand for the quality of this series, it wore a bit thin in places but the performances were great and I dig adult Narnia type of things.  That's what this felt like to me.  

I can completely understand why it wasn't for everyone and I think the complaints are valid.  It just worked for me because I don't think it was ever meant to be anything other than a fairytale.  Hell, those five characters coming together to do anything was a parallel to the five captors, who similarly had nothing in common coming together.  

Also, the FBI guy actually does tell Prairie that her Vitamin D deficiency, the tooth decay, and several other things prove that she was held captive somewhere without access to sunlight.  He clearly believed she made up the other captors as a coping device and maybe she did.  

The ending suggests that maybe she didn't but it seems up to the individual viewer to decide what to do with that.  

Edited January 29, 2017 by stillshimpy