Star Trek - General Discussion

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, Pippin said:

Yes, it committed murder, but couldn't they have tried, oh, I don't know -- anything else?  After all, isn't capital punishment a thing of the past as far as the Federation is concerned?

The salt monster was in the process of killing Kirk and had completely overpowered Spock when Spock tried to stop it.  It was kind of “kill or be killed” at that point, as Bones’s first shot didn’t stop it from advancing.  

[VCRTracking]

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

And this has WHAT to do with the topic, exactly?

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And this has WHAT to do with the topic, exactly?

Sorry! I thought I was posting in the SNL thread! This is what I get for having multiple tabs open.

I can't seem to edit the previous post to get rid of it. Can a mod please delete it?

I'm going to try to bridge the two with this video:

Edited October 4, 2018 by VCRTracking

[legaleagle53]

"Bridge."  I see what you did there!  :)

[Anduin]

Ahh, pro wrestling. Some days it's wonderful. Okay, they don't commit to it as much as they could, but it's still fun.

[Halting Hex]

Building my collection via the BBCAmerica uncut versions (now if only they showed the "Next Mission" teasers and didn't run their own promos over the end credits) and I'm comparing them to what I got from H&I last year, to see what got cut.  And, since, I'm paying more acute attention than before, I notice a few things.

Specifically, re: Wolf in the Fold.  I noticed that when Lt. Karen Tracy screams off-stage as she's being murdered, Shatner doesn't exactly beat feet.  Hey, Jim, that's your crew in peril!  Move that can!

And then they go downstairs and Karen's dead and Scotty's slumped over, the bloody knife in his hand.  But whereas in the teaser, he was slumped against the wall near Kara's body, which makes sense if he passed out, here he's in a chair.  

So…Scotty stabbed Karen over and over and then…pulled out a chair and sat down?  I mean, I guess murder's a job of work, but still.

[VCRTracking]

My two cents on the debate about "City on the Edge of Forever" and which version is better, Ellison's original or the one that aired is this: Ellison's version would have worked as an original story not involving any Star Trek or it's characters. It would have topped "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" as Ellison's greatest original story if it had been with different characters. However, these were Roddenberry's characters and he knew them best. Kirk would have made the painful decision to sacrifice Edith to save the lives of millions. The episode as is is already heartbreaking and powerful. Everyone's performances were great, Shatner's shattered reaction. McCoy's "Do you know what you just did?!" Nimoy's "He knows, Doctor. He knows." is what makes it the number one Trek episode ever.

Edited November 7, 2019 by VCRTracking

[wknt3]

D.C. Fontana, 1939-2019

DC Fontana, ‘Star Trek’ Writer, Dies at 80

[marinw]

“Journey to Babel” is one of my favourite Star Trek episodes of any series. I have seen it dozens of times and will happily watch it dozens more. Thank you DC.

[benteen]

RIP, DC Fontana.  

I was thinking recently that she's probably the last major behind-the-scenes player for the original Star Trek that was still alive.  Sad day.  She was a trailblazer and huge for the history of Star Trek.

[MisterGlass]

Rene Auberjonois has passed away from cancer at 79. RIP.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/08/obituaries/rene-auberjonois-dead.html

[TheLovelyAnomaly]

RIP D.C. Fontana, Robert Walker Jr., and Rene Auberjonois. This month has been rough for Star Trek fans. 

[VCRTracking]

Rewatched "The Enemy Within" and man, the stuff with Evil Kirk and Yeoman Rand is hard to watch these days.

Edited December 28, 2019 by VCRTracking

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/4/2015 at 2:24 PM, SimoneS said:

Another loss for the Star Trek community. I read in Grace Lee Whitney's NY Times obituary (below) that she had become an alcoholic and that Leonard Nimoy helped her restart her career after she got treatment. Shows that Leonard Nimoy was a generous person. I am so glad that she got a second chance was able to help so others (including Star Trek fans) with their addictions.

 

Rest in peace, Grace.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/movies/grace-lee-whitney-yeoman-janice-rand-on-star-trek-dies-at-85.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=5&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F05%2F05%2Fmovies%2Fgrace-lee-whitney-yeoman-janice-rand-on-star-trek-dies-at-85.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

See my comment below. She deserved better.

On 8/30/2016 at 6:20 PM, Cobb Salad said:

I'm enjoying "Mirror, Mirror - my favorite line is said by Mr Spock: Your agonizer, please!

Mirror, Mirror is so fucking great.

On 9/27/2016 at 2:58 PM, Peace 47 said:

BUT I will say that the sexism in this show is terrible--truly, truly terrible.  Normally with 60s shows, I just cling to the female empowerment that I can (like Samantha continuing her magic on Bewitched and being her own person not submissive to Darin), but this show is tough because women are so thoroughly portrayed as cowering, emotional, in need of protection and not as smart as the men.  The only high point is Uhura being there as a senior staff officer (who is also black!  even today there's often such a lack of intersectional feminism on TV)  I don't like some of the lines they've put in her mouth about being frightened and whatnot, but what she could do with the role is awesome (and this wasn't a S1 episode, but in the mirror verse episode, she got to be impressively assertive in attacking mirror Spock with the rest of the gang and holding a knife to mirror Sulu).  So I'm a huge Uhura fan already.  That original pilot with Captain Pike looks like it actually might have been better about the sexism, though, with Majel Barrett (sp?) having more of a command position:  at least she got to wear pants and go on away missions!

It's tempting to blame a lot of the sexism of the original series on Roddenberry, who was apparently a ridiculous womanizer (word has it that the yeoman in Where No Man (who grabs Gary Mitchell's hand) was cast by Roddenberry so he could bang her)...but then the First Officer in Menagerie was a woman, and they originally had them wearing pants. But those skirts....Jesus, they barely cover their buttcheeks.

On 9/27/2016 at 7:48 PM, Peace 47 said:

I'm ignorant enough of TOS that I had to look up who Grace Lee Whitney was:  Yoeman Rand!  I see that, if Wikipedia is accurate, she claimed that the show got her hooked on diet pills from pressure to fit into the tiny uniforms (and that she was sexually assaulted by an executive on the show), and so I guess "behind the scenes" was no more empowering to women than what took place in front of the camera.

It just surprised me a little bit, watching some (not all) of these episode for the very first time, that a show that in many ways was quite progressive for its time (preaching tolerance, harmony, difference races and creeds working together, etc.) takes such a dim view of women.  I'm probably influenced by having just watched both the episode where Spock's brain is stolen and the very last episode of the series (where any woman who wants to be a captain is a psycho crazy lady).

There is a lot that's really great about this show, though.  I don't mean to discount how enjoyable that it can be.  Shatner has a ton of charm in this role.  He very well conveyed that roguish charm of Kirk's when he is amused:  like that chess game he was playing with Spock in one of the first episodes and he's grinning while telling Spock that Spock plays an irritating game of chess (then escapes from Spock's trap!  haha).

I am Team Kirk and always have been. Love Spock and McCoy, love Uhura, but I am a Kirk girl. He is soooo cute and charming when he wants to be (especially with all the soft '60s lighting! And those dreamy hazel eyes! And that blond hair!). God, he's so dreamy. I was born during the original series--I didn't get into the show until after Wrath of Khan, which my mother dragged me to see. I was intrigued by it (whereas I'd been bored by the original movie in '79) and started asking her questions--she had all the original James Blish novelizations and the show was in syndication then so I was able to catch up.

That said--rewatching the show makes my heart break for Grace Lee Whitney. The show featured her so prominently in the first half of the first season and then dumped her cold. She was a decent actress and the character is sweet. I especially like her in Charlie X and Miri. Couldn't they just have scaled her back? They dumped her and then the Executive assaulted her. JFC. She deserved better, and the character deserved better. The worst was when, in Miri, they show her gazing in apparent jealousy at Miri and Kirk as they go out together. FFS, I hardly think a grown-ass woman is threatened by an emotional 12 year old! Oh, I forgot, all women see each other as competition in the future.

On 10/24/2016 at 5:27 AM, Peace 47 said:

It's good for its time that the show took Rand's charge seriously and forced Kirk to answer to the allegation.  However, the very ending of the show is nothing short of horrendous when Spock comments to Rand that evil Kirk had some "interesting qualities" or whatever he said.  The implication that Rand was attracted to her attempted rapist on the basis of his sexually aggressive qualities (and not because she was already attracted to good Kirk) is just a world full of nope.  (And why would Spock of all people say that to her?)  Terrible ending to an otherwise decent episode.

Oh my God, that ending!!! My jaw dropped open. Horrifying--and from Spock of all people!

That said, I have mixed feelings about the whole "let's force the victim to confront face to face the guy who forcibly tried to rape her"...but yeah, it was a different time. It's just awful to watch. But props to Rand for kicking ass and throwing him off her, and to Fisher who was unafraid to say "Yes, I saw you, Captain, yes, you were trying to rape her."

On 1/10/2017 at 2:48 PM, MsWausau said:

Peace, my son is a cable technician and last week the temps here in MN went to -15 below during the day. My son called in the morning and said slowly, "-117, two men unconscious..." And once our laughter had died down I heard him jogging to his truck as he said, "Hang on, I have to phaser some rocks to get some heat in my truck."

What befuddles me about that scene is... why didn't they send down the shuttle craft? I know, I know, it was before they invented the thing, so why didn't Sulu make a tent around some rocks, close it off and then heat the rocks? Spock told him 'survival procedures'... and cuddling in his neoprene blanket sufficed?

DYING! Yes, that episode is so ridiculous. Are they using a wholly new kind of temperature scale??? Neither Kelvin, Celsius nor Fahrenheit? We're supposed to be believe they're still alive at 100+ below zero--with blankets???

On 11/6/2019 at 6:57 PM, VCRTracking said:

My two cents on the debate about "City on the Edge of Forever" and which version is better, Ellison's original or the one that aired is this: Ellison's version would have worked as an original story not involving any Star Trek or it's characters. It would have topped "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" as Ellison's greatest original story if it had been with different characters. However, these were Roddenberry's characters and he knew them best. Kirk would have made the painful decision to sacrifice Edith to save the lives of millions. The episode as is is already heartbreaking and powerful. Everyone's performances were great, Shatner's shattered reaction. McCoy's "Do you know what you just did?!" Nimoy's "He knows, Doctor. He knows." is what makes it the number one Trek episode ever.

Fully agree with this. The episode as it aired was brilliant. Ellison's version was completely improbable. Does anyone really think Kirk, of all people, would've sacrificed the future including his beloved Enterprise for one person, no matter how much he loved her? Ridiculous. Ellison's been whining about this for 50 years now, Like, put on your big boy panties and get over it. God knows he's made enough money on his narrative. (Sorry, I can't stand him.)

[Cobb Salad]

6 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Fully agree with this. The episode as it aired was brilliant. Ellison's version was completely improbable. Does anyone really think Kirk, of all people, would've sacrificed the future including his beloved Enterprise for one person, no matter how much he loved her? Ridiculous. Ellison's been whining about this for 50 years now, Like, put on your big boy panties and get over it. God knows he's made enough money on his narrative. (Sorry, I can't stand him.)

There were characters in Ellison’s version that didn’t behave like they did as already established in the series. Too much time was spent setting up this other story.   He apparently didn’t care or didn’t watch the series closely.  I think at the time he just sold the story and there was no creative control arrangement associated with it.  I 100% agree with you, to keep whining on about it years later is annoying and he should have just moved on to writing his next story.  

[Halting Hex]

On 12/3/2019 at 3:26 PM, wknt3 said:

D.C. Fontana, 1939-2019

DC Fontana, ‘Star Trek’ Writer, Dies at 80

I had no idea!  Rest in Peace, Dorothy.

(That said, it would have been better if that one piece had used a pic of her…or at least a scene from one of her scripts!  Amok Time is Ted Sturgeon's work, of course.  I guess all Vulcans look alike to them, or something.)

On 1/20/2020 at 1:25 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

rewatching the show makes my heart break for Grace Lee Whitney. The show featured her so prominently in the first half of the first season and then dumped her cold. She was a decent actress and the character is sweet. I especially like her in Charlie X and Miri. Couldn't they just have scaled her back? They dumped her and then the Executive assaulted her. JFC. She deserved better, and the character deserved better.

What's annoying about Grace Lee getting the bum's rush is that you can see the hole in the scripts where Janice was meant to be, for most of the first season.

In Dagger of the Mind, it's meant to be her, not this created-and-then-vanished "Dr. Helen Noel", who goes with Kirk to Tantalus.  (Not as an "expert" or anything, just Kirk's amanuensis.  You can see this in the script notes excerpted in Stephen Whitfield's The Making of Star Trek.)  How much more potent would it be for Adams to brainwash Kirk into telling Janice "for years I've loved you?"  How empowering would it be for her to turn down her fantasy come to life, to crawl through those ducts that Kirk can't fit into, to be the action hero (electrocuting the stooge) who saves the day?  This annoys me no end.

In The Squire of Gothos, it's meant to be Janice, not "Yeoman Theresa Ross" whom Trelane turns into a ball-gowned "prize" to squabble with Kirk over.  Imagine Jim fake-commanding Janice "you're not to dance with him, I don't like it!" and her confusion about whether he really has feelings for her in this "we might want to…but we never can, anyhow" paradigm they're trapped in.  Imagine her relief from the awkwardness of the situation when the Enterprise makes its first "escape" from Gothos:

Quote

ROSS JANICE: May I take a moment to change?
KIRK: Yes, I think you might. Turn in your glass slippers. The ball is over.
ROSS JANICE: Gladly, Captain.
KIRK: Hard to believe it ever happened.

All wasted on an utter nobody of a once-off, instead.

Imagine Janice on The Galileo Seven, not "Yeoman Smith".  Imagine Spock deputizing Janice to guard the Mea3 (Barbara Babcock) in A Taste of Armageddon.  "Knock her down if you have to."  Instead we get the random model as "Yeoman Tamula" struggling to say her four lines. Ugh.

I'm not sure I'd want Janice instead of Leila Kalomi in This Side of Paradise; yes, it would be even more powerful for Kirk to choose his ship over the spores if the spores were offering the happy life with Janice that Kirk can never have, but Leila gives us an idea of Spock's backstory that's arguably necessary, and the length of time that's passed since they last saw each other gives the story a broader scope.  (Plus Leila's "I love you. I said that six years ago, and I can't seem to stop repeating myself" is one of the best lines Dorothy Fontana ever wrote.)

And while it would be awesome if in the teaser for Shore Leave, Theodore "Did I Mention I Wrote Gay Porn?" Sturgeon had shown Jim enjoying a back massage from "Spock", only to freak when he realizes that it's Janice working his lats, the rest of the episode might get problematic.  I mean, it would be a cheat for Jim to stroll off to canoodle with Janice at episode's end, and Ruth builds his backstory…but is Janice going to be sniffing around McCoy (as Tonia Barrows does in the aired version) just because Jim's busy elsewhere?  Sheesh, she's almost as bad as Angela Martine-Teller hopping on Esteban Rodriguez before poor Tomlinson from the episode before is even cold in his grave.  (Yes, Barbara Baldavin, boning Joe the Casting Director put you in line for all these bit parts, but at what cost?)

I certainly wouldn't want Janice to be credulous idiot that Marla McGivers is in Space Seed, and perhaps it's better that Marla remains loyal to the ship despite legitimately being enraptured by Khan instead of it being a case of "Janice was tempted by Hot Corinthian Leather because Jim can't show his true feelings, but ultimately she loves Jim, no matter what", which might be too soap-opera-ish.  But it's worth a thought.

And of course, I don't know if City on the Edge of Forever gets its Edith Keeler-driven awesomeness if Jim's been subtexting with Janice every week instead of a (relative) monk.  But overall, I think the show misses her something fierce.  Plus Uhura should never be the Only Woman on the Bridge.  Janice connects with her (and Sulu) in ways that Nurse Chapel, the other second-line female never does.  Sigh.

Quote

Yes, that episode is so ridiculous. Are they using a wholly new kind of temperature scale??? Neither Kelvin, Celsius nor Fahrenheit? We're supposed to be believe they're still alive at 100+ below zero--with blankets???

Well, maybe they were just Really Awesome 23rd-Century Blankets™, did you ever think of that?  To boldly warm like no blanket has warmed before 🙂

Of course, one of the episode plot holes is why they don't just transport down more blankets?   So what if they duplicate (not exactly a bad thing) and even lose molecular integrity?  I'd rather Sulu et al had a pile of polymers to snuggle in, rather than just the tiny squares they were using.  Oh, well.

Quote

Ellison's been whining about this for 50 years now, Like, put on your big boy panties and get over it. God knows he's made enough money on his narrative. (Sorry, I can't stand him.)

Well, Ellison passed in 2018, so he's not "whining" any longer.  RIP, Harlie.

That said, he never made many friends, it's true.  Among other media, he did comic book stories for both Marvel and DC.  Allegedly there's a DC book where someone else wrote in a parody of Ellison at his most obnoxious.  (Or was this one of Gerry Conway's San Francisco-set Daredevil and the Black Widow stories?  I forget.  Most comics are set in New York, so Ellison being a uniquely-Californian irritant had limited opportunities for mockery.  But still, you get the point. )

[CeeBeeGee]

All excellent point, Halting Hex. And imagine if Rand was subpoenaed in Court Martial. (You can see the yeoman silently apologizing as she passes Kirk after her testimony.)

Okay, I've been giggling at the comments about the Kirk/Spock relationship and I have to bring up a book. Has anyone here ever read a ST original novel called The Price of the Phoenix? I bought and read it when I was a teenager and it is batshit insane, but very enjoyable. A sociopath who owns a planet kidnaps Kirk and fakes his death, then presents Spock with a very convincing Kirk-clone who really believes he is the original. But wait! The original Kirk is still alive and Omne is determined to "out alpha male" him--this manifests with a scene where Omne beats the crap out of Kirk, trying to force him to kneel in front of him and beg. At one point Kirk heads him in the crotch. All the men run around naked at one point or another (they jokingly refer to this as "uniform of the day") or in huge bathrobes. The Romulan commander from The Enterprise Incident is along for the ride.

All the gay subtext sailed over my innocent head when I first read it but my mother nailed it. As angsty and silly as it kind of is, it's actually pretty well-written! They debate ethics and principles a LOT. And of course what it means to be an "alpha male." There's a sequel as well, but not quite as much fun.

[Chaos Theory]

It’s funny I read somewhere that some people think the episode “I, Mudd” is sexist and stupid where i find it hilarious and the episode “City On The Edge of Forever”  is on everyone’s best of TOS list and I find that one boring.   I guess to each is own.   I was also never really a fan of the Tribble episode.    

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

It’s funny I read somewhere that some people think the episode “I, Mudd” is sexist and stupid where i find it hilarious and the episode “City On The Edge of Forever”  is on everyone’s best of TOS list and I find that one boring.   I guess to each is own.   I was also never really a fan of the Tribble episode.    

I think “I Mudd” is funny too.  Harry Mudd surrounded himself with a bunch of beautiful android women so someone pins the sexist tag in the episode.  To each his or her own.  Everyone has their own list of favorites, some of mine are on the most mentioned “best of” then I have a couple of “favorites because they are so dumb” that many people would put on a “worst of Trek” list.  

[TheLovelyAnomaly]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

It’s funny I read somewhere that some people think the episode “I, Mudd” is sexist and stupid where i find it hilarious and the episode “City On The Edge of Forever”  is on everyone’s best of TOS list and I find that one boring.   I guess to each is own.   I was also never really a fan of the Tribble episode.    

I found "City on the Edge of Forever" to be overrated. Not bad (I actually quite like it), just not as fantastic as most TOS fans claim it is. I also don't care for "Day of the Dove," one of the more popular episodes from Season 3. Conversely, I really enjoyed "The Gamesters of Triskelion" which a lot of people seem to not care for. To each their own indeed, haha. 

[marinw]

One of my favourite TOS episodes is "Journey to Babel". We have Spock's parents, political intrigue, an attempted assassination, a successful assassination, medical drama, the introduction of some new aliens, great Kirk/Spock/McCoy interaction. It has everything.

Edited June 21, 2020 by marinw

[Chaos Theory]

Season 1 Balance of Terror is still among my favorite season 1 episodes.   It was a well paced episode that not only had good storytelling but a good deal of paranoia.   Plus it introduced the Romulans.  Season 2 of course it is Mirror, Mirror which was just plain fun to watch everyone play an evil version of themselves.   Season 3 I think my favorite episode would have to be The Enterprise Incident.   Maybe because I love TOS version of the Romulans or maybe the idea of Spock in a romance was intriguing to me .    It was a well plotted espionage story.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[SVNBob]

15 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Season 1 Balance of Terror is still among my favorite season 1 episodes.   It was a well paced episode that not only had good storytelling but a good deal of paranoia.

That's because it's a submarine story...In Space!

[marinw]

I will never get tired of "Amok Time." This episode manages to be both emotionally hefty and great fun. Still one of my my favorite fight scenes in the history of television. And that music, burned into my brain  until the end of forever.

[marinw]

On 2/10/2020 at 10:59 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Has anyone here ever read a ST original novel called The Price of the Phoenix?

Late to reply to this! I do sort of remember that one. Another batsh*t novel if you can find it is "Black Fire," wherein Spock is accused and tried of treason, goes to Startleet prison where he is tasked with feeding pigs, escapes and becomes an exotic Space Pirate. 

I love some of these old novels, which are essestially long fan fics. I don't think these novels would be published today,

[JTMacc99]

6 hours ago, marinw said:

I will never get tired of "Amok Time." This episode manages to be both emotionally hefty and great fun. Still one of my my favorite fight scenes in the history of television. And that music, burned into my brain  until the end of forever.

I agree. 

You also made me look up the Futurama version of it between Fry and Zoidberg, and I may have laughed out loud inappropriately while sitting at my desk at work because of it.

[Browncoat]

One of my favorite episodes is "Devil in the Dark" if only for the immortal line from McCoy, "I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"

[SVNBob]

5 hours ago, Browncoat said:

"I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"

One of only five times he actually used the "I'm a doctor, not a(n) ___!" phrase.

The funniest one is from the episode "Friday's Child", with guest star Julie Newmar playing the incredibly pregnant wife of a tribal leader on a planet the Federation is trying to negotiate trading rights with.  Klingons are also involved, and in the debate and struggle for power, the leader is killed.  The new leader orders Newmar and the unborn child killed, as they represent a challenge to his rule.  However, Kirk, McCoy, and Spock grab her and flee into Vasquez Rocks the nearby quarry hills.  As she is "pregnant", Newmar is having some difficulties in making the ascent.  Kirk orders McCoy to assist her, leading to the line:

"Look, I'm a doctor, not an escalator!"

[CeeBeeGee]

On 6/20/2020 at 3:03 PM, Chaos Theory said:

It’s funny I read somewhere that some people think the episode “I, Mudd” is sexist and stupid where i find it hilarious

I love I, Mudd! Seeing an annoyed Kirk effortlessly tear Mudd apart is always fun and it's a blast when they all work together to drive the androids crazy from illogic. The sexist part is the stereotype of the nagging shrew...I think her name is Stella? (Which is '60s lazy comedy tropes at its cringeiest.)

On 6/21/2020 at 8:10 AM, marinw said:

One of my favourite TOS episodes is "Journey to Babel". We have Spock's parents, political intrigue, an attempted assassination, a successful assassination, medical drama, the introduction of some new aliens, great Kirk/Spock/McCoy interaction. It has everything.

Yeessssss. Plus Extremely Hot Shirtless Kirk, plus Adorable Kirk bluffing to get Spock off the bridge, plus some hilarious fight choreography in the hallway (at one point Kirk pushes himself off the wall, it's hilariously awkward-looking), plus Awesome Kirk tricking the Orion ship, plus a great conversation between Spock and Amanda. Ih yeah, plus Sarek's too-cool line "Threats are illogical, and payment is usually expensive." (Plus Kirk in dress uniform. Rowr.)

On 6/22/2020 at 8:48 AM, marinw said:

I will never get tired of "Amok Time." This episode manages to be both emotionally hefty and great fun. Still one of my my favorite fight scenes in the history of television. And that music, burned into my brain  until the end of forever.

Amok Time is fantastic throughout but one of my favorite scenes in all of ST is when Spock is haltingly trying to tell Kirk about pon farr, and the fight music is played under it in a very slowed-down tempo. It adds such great tension to the scene.

On 6/22/2020 at 9:09 AM, marinw said:

Late to reply to this! I do sort of remember that one. Another batsh*t novel if you can find it is "Black Fire," wherein Spock is accused and tried of treason, goes to Startleet prison where he is tasked with feeding pigs, escapes and becomes an exotic Space Pirate. 

I love some of these old novels, which are essestially long fan fics. I don't think these novels would be published today,

I have Black Fire but haven't read it since the '80s--he wears one black earring in that one, right?

22 hours ago, SVNBob said:

One of only five times he actually used the "I'm a doctor, not a(n) ___!" phrase.

The funniest one is from the episode "Friday's Child", with guest star Julie Newmar playing the incredibly pregnant wife of a tribal leader on a planet the Federation is trying to negotiate trading rights with.  Klingons are also involved, and in the debate and struggle for power, the leader is killed.  The new leader orders Newmar and the unborn child killed, as they represent a challenge to his rule.  However, Kirk, McCoy, and Spock grab her and flee into Vasquez Rocks the nearby quarry hills.  As she is "pregnant", Newmar is having some difficulties in making the ascent.  Kirk orders McCoy to assist her, leading to the line:

"Look, I'm a doctor, not an escalator!"

GREAT episode and HandI just re-aired it tonight. Newmar is so completely badass as Eleen. "Not you. Only Mak-koy may touch me." I love how she surprises the audience when she lies that K, S & M are dead. And that outfit!

[marinw]

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Spock is haltingly trying to tell Kirk about pon farr, and the fight music is played under it in a very slowed-down tempo. It adds such great tension to the scene.

The Fight Music  ranks up there with the Imperial March from Star Wars and the original Battlestar Galactica theme as one of the all-time great pieces of Sci Fi music.

My only quibble with Amok Time is the absence of Sarak and Amanda. Perhaps the writers hadn’t thought of them yet?

The episode has some fantastic dialogue. “I will forgive such a display only once!” and “You may find, after a time, that having in not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.”

Yes it is Spock, yes it is.

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I have Black Fire but haven't read it since the '80s--he wears one black earring in that one, right?

Probably? I mostly remember how Spock had no issue with manual labour but did take issue with raiseing animals for livestock. Why a Starfleet Prison would keep livestock is a question for the author. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by marinw

[SVNBob]

On this day in 1966, American (and to a degree, global) pop culture was irrevocably changed with the airing of "The Man Trap", the debut episode of NBC's then-new science-fiction serial Star Trek.

Happy Star Trek Day to my fellow Trekkies, and Live Long and Prosper.   🖖

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[rmontro]

Saw "By Any Other Name" on MeTV last Saturday.  It has one of my favorite scenes (or subplots), with Scotty drinking the alien under the table.  Then he goes to take the alien weapon to Kirk but collapses before he can get out the door.  Scotty has some great scenes in this series.  

And of course, Kirk seduces the evil female alien.  Great stuff.

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

Saw "By Any Other Name" on MeTV last Saturday.  It has one of my favorite scenes (or subplots), with Scotty drinking the alien under the table.  Then he goes to take the alien weapon to Kirk but collapses before he can get out the door.  Scotty has some great scenes in this series.  

And of course, Kirk seduces the evil female alien.  Great stuff.

One of my favorites, yet the big flaw in the alien’s plan is not reducing Kirk, the biggest troublemaker of the episode, in to a dodecahedron.  What would have happened then, heh. 

[marinw]

Scotty: "It's green!"

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Scotty: "It's green!"

One of my favorite lines!

[marinw]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

One of my favorite lines!

Data said it back to Scotty in "Relics"

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, marinw said:

Data said it back to Scotty in "Relics"

That's right!  "It is green", technically, since Data doesn't use contractions.  But clearly he knows a classic line when he hears it.

[marinw]

Back to "By Any Other Name". I liked how KIrk convinced the Alien leader to head back to the Milky Way by pointing out that they were becomming humaniod as a resut of occupying Humanoid Form. And how the Federation "Would welcome friends". That's Kirk at his best. Although he WAS a little quick to forgive/forget about the poor Red Shirt who was literally ground into dust.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Although he WAS a little quick to forgive/forget about the poor Red Shirt who was literally ground into dust.

Well, it was just a Red Shirt.  Besides, what's a little dust in the quest for galactic peace?  Remember, later Kirk even puts aside his feelings about his son being murdered by a Klingon to help achieve peace with them.  Even if it takes him awhile to reach that point. 

[SmithW6079]

4 hours ago, marinw said:

Although he WAS a little quick to forgive/forget about the poor Red Shirt who was literally ground into dust.

I remember that I was really bothered by Yeoman Thompson's death (never forget!). Maybe because it was a female crewmember who was killed. Is that one of the few times we saw a woman killed on "Star Trek"? 

I've been watching a bunch of old TOS lately on Hulu. Maybe it's the optimism that was inherent in those episodes that's appealing to me now (especially nowadays!). I pick and choose at random.

In "Breads and Circuses," I like that it's Uhura who has to explain to the trio of Kirk, Spock & McCoy that the slaves aren't worshipping the sun, but the Son of God.

I've also been watching some episodes for minor characters whom we never see after a few episodes. DaSalle in "Catspaw" (which isn't as bad as I remember, although Korbo and Sylvia in their true forms is) and "This Side of Paradise." He's also in "Squire of Gothos." It's a shame the character didn't appear in more episodes. I liked his no-nonsense attitude, although he was probably more of a hard-ass military type than Kirk. 

I also watched "Conscience of the King," which features Kevin Riley. Again, another character who appeared only in a few episodes. If they were going for a younger demographic, why not keep him instead of getting Chekov (although I get having a Russian crewmember for diversity).

And for the second "pilot," "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is a good one. Too bad Lee Kelso was killed by Gary. 

 

 

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, SmithW6079 said:

I remember that I was really bothered by Yeoman Thompson's death (never forget!). Maybe because it was a female crewmember who was killed. Is that one of the few times we saw a woman killed on "Star Trek"? 

In the original series she’s the only “redshirt” female killed.  In the episode “The Deadly Years” the casualty from the landing party is also a woman who dies from accelerated aging.  She’s wearing a blue uniform so she’s not security but medicine/science.  I was bothered by Yeoman Thompson’s death as well since it was done to teach Kirk a lesson and from nothing she did except being there.  

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I also watched "Conscience of the King," which features Kevin Riley. Again, another character who appeared only in a few episodes.

Reading this, Riley reminds me of Barcley, from TNG.  They were both featured in a limited fashion, and they both had instances where they became rather full of themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Cobb Salad said:

I was bothered by Yeoman Thompson’s death as well since it was done to teach Kirk a lesson and from nothing she did except being there.  

Plus she has that moment where she goes to Kirk and says "Captain?" when she is directed to stand with the other Red Shirt.  She's clearly frightened, and Kirk just sort of nods her along as if to say "it will be okay", although he was having doubts himself.  At least it would have been a quick and painless death, I would imagine.  

[marinw]

11 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

In the original series she’s the only “redshirt” female killed

I stand corrected, not a red shirt but a red dress! If/when they do "Strange New Worlds" they may put in a few male Yeomen to retcon the gender dynamics

[SmithW6079]

On 8/5/2021 at 11:59 PM, rmontro said:

Reading this, Riley reminds me of Barcley, from TNG.  They were both featured in a limited fashion, and they both had instances where they became rather full of themselves.

 

Plus she has that moment where she goes to Kirk and says "Captain?" when she is directed to stand with the other Red Shirt.  She's clearly frightened, and Kirk just sort of nods her along as if to say "it will be okay", although he was having doubts himself.  At least it would have been a quick and painless death, I would imagine.  

To be fair, Riley was infected by the sweating disease Crewman Joe brought up from the planet, so his delusions of grandeur weren't entirely his fault. And if it was spread by contact, why didn't Uhura get it when she pushed against Sulu's sweaty torso? I'm guessing not enough time to show her breakdown. (Speaking of Uhura, I love the TAS episode where she takes command when all the men are incapacitated. I wish that had been a live action episode.)

Re: Yeoman Thompson's death, I remember the first time I saw it and keeping track of the cubes to see which crewmember would be killed. Wow. Decades later and it still bothers me. 😒  I agree that her death was painless. I would imagine that once someone was reduced to the cube, they no longer had any consciousness. 

Although we never see the Kelvins again, didn't they make modifications to the Enterprise to make it run with just a handful of people? Why didn't Starfleet reverse engineer that technology and apply it to all ships in the fleet?

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

why didn't Uhura get it when she pushed against Sulu's sweaty torso?

We don't know she didn't. 

But some people were more capable of handling the condition than others.  See Bones and Scotty in particular.  (Although, given that the disease acted like it made people inebriated, I still maintain that those two were just used to working in that state.)  Assuming she was infected, I guess we can list Uhura alongside them.

[marinw]

42 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Season:2 -Episode:21 Patterns of Force

I like this one too. I think it was as oppurtunity to make use of all the Nazi Uniforms NBC had at thier disposal. Ditto for the Gangster Planet and the Old West Planet.

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

those tribbles looked like Captain Kirk's hairpieces trying to make a break for it.

Maybe they were being bred to keep Kirk in supply of hairpieces?  "Mudd, pick up every tribble on this space station.  And have them converted to hairpieces".

Patterns of Force was a good one.  With the Nazi plot, it could have gotten too cheesy, but it was well done.  

The Doomsday Machine has long been my favorite episode.  It bugs me that in the new versions with the special effects redone, the Doomsday Machine is now green.  I actually like the blue look of the original better.  Most of the new special effects are a blessing, but for the one I didn't like, did it have to be my favorite episode?

[Halting Hex]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:52 PM, SmithW6079 said:

I remember that I was really bothered by Yeoman Thompson's death (never forget!). Maybe because it was a female crewmember who was killed.

What makes it more surprising is that other "blocked" crewmember, the one whom Rojan doesn't crumble, is Lt. Shea (Carl Byrd), who's African-American.  No offense intended, but this being 1968, I was expecting "the black guy" to get it, not the pretty girl.

(BTW, I check every time I watch, and they get it right.  Hanar picks up the dodecahedrons and hands them to Rojan, and you can see that Rojan does indeed crumble "Thompson" and not "Shea", just by keeping track.)

I thought Byrd did a good job of showing Shea's understandable fury during the rest of Act 2.  I wish we hadn't lost him for the rest of the episode.

Thompson is played by Julie Cobb, daughter of Lee J., making her professional debut.  She may be best remembered these days as "Jill" from Charles in Charge, although I was never a fan of that show.  (IMDb tells me she's been married to both Victor French and James Cromwell.  Huh.)

************************************

So I'm watching Season 1 of The Mod Squad, which I recommend.  A couple of good episodes in near succession are 1.16 "Shell Game" (the squad infiltrates a robbery crew run by dirty cops) and 1.18 "A Hint of Darkness, A Hint of Light"  (Gloria Foster guests as a blind poet being targeted for unknown reasons), and I'm watching the credits and the writer is Edward J. Lakso.

And I'm like, "that sounds familiar"…and then it hits me.  The "author" of "And the Children Shall Lead…"  UGH.

All I can say is that Trek definitely did not get Lakso's best work.  (He wrote 13 Mod Squad eps, all told.)

And I'm glad that Gloria Foster's poetry was much better than "Hail, Hail, fire and snow!  Call the Angel, we will go!"

************************************

On 8/8/2021 at 8:03 AM, icemiser69 said:

William Windom had one heck of a career.

Indeed.  He was on The Mod Squad, too.  (He played the fiance of Julie [Peggie Lipton]'s estranged mother.  Pete and Linc [Michael Cole, Clarence Williams III] don't know how to tell Julie that they suspect Windom of planning a bank heist.)

Those Paramount shows shared a lot of guest actors.  Also spotted:  William "Merrickus" Smithers.  Placing that very familiar voice was a lot of fun.