S01.E04: Your Mama Had a Hard Night

[formerlyfreedom]

Please note: This episode is airing early on a number of platforms. Reading this topic will spoil you if you have not watched it.

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Letty attempts legitimate "good behavior" when she goes back to her hometown to be close to her son, Jacob, and finds a clever workaround for the restraining order that has kept her one-thousand feet away from him. Meanwhile, while trying to protect her friend Tiffany from the truth about her husband, Letty's attempt at being good explodes in her face.

 

 

[magdalene]

Lettie's mother is such a nightmare, and then such a mama bear when you least expect it.  Lettie's son is lovely and sweet natured and thoughtful. 

I thought the town was awful  and her "friends" were awful even before it all went to shit.  Sometimes you just can't go home again.

I was as relieved as Lettie at the end to see Javier.  There is something important missing when he is not around for most of the episode.  And obviously Letty thinks so too since she conjured him up at the most inopportune moments through the episode.

[TaraS1]

Even though I definitely missed Javier, I still loved this episode.  The stuff with Letty's mom in the restaurant broke my heart.  The way Letty just sort of bowed her head and took the abuse really got to me, and Michelle knocked that out of the park without saying a word.  The mom was just so cruel in that moment (not to mention a greedy bitch) that it made me not care that she stood up for Letty later on, particularly since she ends up telling her to get lost at the end.  But I guess that had to happen to push Letty to call Javier.

I also love the way the writers write dialogue that sounds like how people really talk.  Letty and Tiffany's conversations seemed so natural and exactly the way you'd talk to one of your oldest, craziest friends.  And the guy playing Rob, the mom's boyfriend, sounded like every fun redneck guy I know from high school who loves his truck and going to the lake.

I have a sad feeling that this show probably isn't going to last very long, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it while it's still around.

[Hanahope]

So its annoying the way the show is half-way cutting the curse words, because it also seems to cut some of the non-curse words and/or its unclear what's being said.  For example, I hardly heard/understood what Letty's mom said to Tiffany at the reunion.  Either use a different word, or edit better.

My TV advertised this as a "sneak peak at next weeks episode" which led me to believe there'd be some previews, plus maybe some interviews or something with the creators.  I wasn't expecting a whole other full episode.

Gotta love plot devices, the wife going into the room at the exact wrong time.

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

I have a sad feeling that this show probably isn't going to last very long, but I'm enjoying the hell out of it while it's still around.

Me too.  I am preparing myself for this most likely being a one season show and it's going fast at the rate TNT is airing the episodes. I did not expect the second new episode either.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wish they would move away from how Letty is a loving and devoted mother who would do anything to be with her son again.  The truth is that she is NOT that way.  Addiction is a terrible illness and relapse is one of its characteristics, however, some things you can do to put yourself in line for reunification with your child.  Attending daily support meetings is required.  I don't know of many people who are serious about sobriety who don't attend REGULAR meetings and for some they attend every day.  To have so many skills and talents, she uses them for her own purposes and not for the things that would bring her closer to her son in the long run. She doesn't want to stay sober and doesn't even pretend that she does.  So, I find her constant claims to get her son back insulting.     I get how she's so pitiful when it comes to her mom, abused, confused,  spit upon, misunderstood, framed, etc.  It's just too much.  I hope she doesn't return home unless the writers can handle it more realistically.   Just let Letty shine elsewhere.  And when she's serious about being sober and a good parent.  She'll do it. 

Did they say why she didn't work on college and job skills in prison?  They have them in NC.  There are places they help people in her condition, but she resists and mocks them.  (Her PO for one.)

Can she and Javiar be on a mission to do good?  lol   I do wonder if there is more murder in the future or just cons.  

[The Solution]

I don't suppose that it speaks well for me that these are, hands down, my favorite people on television right now.

"What is wrong with you, you glittery c nt?", indeed.

[zxy556575]

I'm really enjoying the show overall but am glad this episode provided a bit of a breather. The last one was nerve-wracking because I was worried about Letty and Javier getting caught with the bodies, Letty's parole being revoked, all the shit with the car, etc. This was sad and emotionally wrenching but I wasn't all tensed up on my couch.

I agree that Letty's desire to parent her son comes off a bit like a childhood fantasy of living in a magic ice cream playhouse. The genie just makes it all appear with no work or upkeep required.

Edited November 24, 2016 by lordonia

[gibasi]

This episode sealed my love for the show.  I loved the soap opera elements-you just knew that Tiffany was going to walk in on Letty and Kyle and trashy sexy Mom is a hoot.  Most of all I loved Letty.  She is a mess and she consistently makes the wrong choices but seeing her at the end with her mom asking her mom why just made my heart break.  I agree with your post SunnyBeBe but I don't find Letty's claims to want her son back insulting.  Because I don't think that we are supposed to think she should get her son back.  She is too lost and she is an addict.  But her desire does motivate her to try to be better.  But she always succumbs to her demons when she gets knocked down.

I am not sure I like that I love Javiar and Letty together but I totally do.  The end-"You came."  "You called. " I just loved it.

Edited November 30, 2016 by gibasi
I corrected the ending quote because that kind of thing bothers me.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually do think Letty wants her son back and I don't find her claims insulting at all.  Actually the exact opposite.   She does mean well but at this point she is too lost in her addiction and bad choices and yet she is not a bad person.  If she was she wouldn't have taken the fall for her friend's husband.   I dint think we are supposed to think she should get her kid back but I do think her mother is no saint either and might be some of the cause of her problems

[alias1]

My heart melted.....you came......you called.

[magdalene]

8 hours ago, SierraMist said:

My heart melted.....you came......you called.

That was a great little moment wasn't it? If two actors can convey so much with one look at each other - that's chemistry. 

They are into each other. Though neither and especially not Letty are at all ready to admit this.

[EtheltoTillie]

This was a fantastic episode.  Loved getting all the backstory from her home town. 

[suzeecat]

Like everyone else, I am enjoying this show.  One little question, does anyone have any idea where Letty got the $1,000 from to give to her mom in order to spend the day with her son?  (btw, despicable)

[Hanahope]

I think she still had some left over from taking the SUV with the cash in the first episode.  She left some for her mom then, and spent some on drugs, but she told Javier that some was still there.  He probably let her keep it to get 'dressed up' for the second contract bit.

[magdalene]

To me Letty's mom lost any right to whine about Letty's flaws and various fuck-ups when she decided it was okay for the "fuck-up" to baby sit the son as long as mommie dearest was payed for overlooking the restraining order. Despicable indeed.

[politichick]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I think she still had some left over from taking the SUV with the cash in the first episode.  She left some for her mom then, and spent some on drugs, but she told Javier that some was still there.  He probably let her keep it to get 'dressed up' for the second contract bit.

She had something like $18,000 left over that he didn't ask her to return because he wanted to use her in his life of crime. Like others have stated, not sure what it says about me that I love them together, but baby i do. Binged watched the show during the holiday weekend and can't wait for the next episode!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Still not sold on Letty and Javier because he was at first basically holding her hostage. "You came/You called" was a killer moment though. It was hard not to swoon.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Help me out.  Please.

P.O. knows full and damn well that Danville is home to Mama and son.  There is an R.O. bigger than life against her in Danville.  All he expresses is concern she won't go there and make an appearance??????  She busts that R.O. and it is straight to prison.  Not. One. Word.  Instead, he gives special permission?!  Right after she busted all previous walls with her most recent adventures in avoiding him.

She thought, for five seconds, that the State of North Carolina would go along with her resettling in Danville?  Remember, ambitious P.O. boss man already has it out for her, to get to Christian.

I really don't care about Letty's pain of losing her son.  I care desperately for the Jacob's of the world who get yanked around by bio rents who are incapable of being there for them.  Unless and until she has demonstrated at least two years of program (NA/AA) sobriety, she is being a horrible person by trying to insert herself in his life.  Jacob has a home.  It may not be much, but it is far better than having false hope of a bio rent coming back to "save the day."

MD was very good in this ep.  She'll keep me watching at least for now.

Whatever.  The writers are setting up a no-consequence fantasy land.  Very soon, there won't be any drama.  The addict and the hit man are always sure to escape.  ZZZZZZZZ.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[helenamonster]

I really liked Letty's attempt to "be good" by not ratting out Tiffany's husband for the heroin and taking the blame instead, even if it meant sending her back to square one in the image rehabilitation department. She knows the cost of being found out as a drug addict and wanted to give him a chance to fix it himself before he lost everything. I wouldn't call it noble, necessarily, but I don't think she's a bad person. She just made one too many mistakes and now is now stuck in the bed she made, despite her best efforts to get out of it.

I loved the running gag of Shirley wordlessly pointing to the doorbell each time Letty tried to get into the office. Also, I've worked in two offices that have had that exact kind of printer. It is a bitch to fix when it jams.

The mother sure is a piece of work too. I agree with the sentiment that if she really cared about Jacob's well-being, she wouldn't let Letty violate the restraining order for any price. I think she enjoys having the moral high ground over Letty (she is "fit" to raise Jacob in a way that Letty is not) more than actually providing a good home for her grandson. That poor kid. He seems so sweet and intelligent despite all the bullshit he's faced in his young life.

On 11/23/2016 at 8:46 AM, TaraS1 said:

I also love the way the writers write dialogue that sounds like how people really talk.  Letty and Tiffany's conversations seemed so natural and exactly the way you'd talk to one of your oldest, craziest friends.  And the guy playing Rob, the mom's boyfriend, sounded like every fun redneck guy I know from high school who loves his truck and going to the lake.

ITA! For a while I was wondering what was so "weird" about the dialogue in this show, and I realized it's that it's much closer to the way real people speak than most people on tv speak. And I think the show is better for it.

Another nice little touch of realism...when Letty and Tiffany are in the house that Letty might move into, their voices echo, as they would in an unfurnished house with nothing to swallow the sound. Most shows would edit around that to make the dialogue crisper/clearer, but I like that this show left it in.

[starchild215]

I binge watched the first four episodes on the TNT app. You get the option of watching the "regular" episode or the "explicit" version. Needless to say I watch the explicit version so none of the curse words are edited.

Lettie's dream of getting Jacob back is just a dream. She's listening to the "app" that feeds her positive thoughts but the hard work of rehab, NA/AA meetings, is anathema to her. Despite his grandmother's ways Jacob is in a much better situation with her. Tiffany's rant at the reunion where she reveals that she was the one to introduce Lettie to "Sean" who turned out to be a horror adds another layer to why she even tried to help Lettie. She felt that Lettie was a threat from the minute she took her in. I wonder if we'll get to see how she reacts when she finds out it's her Kyle who is the junkie. 

This episode was as emotionally tense as episode 3 for different reasons. While watching it I kept saying to myself "you can't go home again". The way they shot the scene where she tried to help Kyle made it clear Tiffany was going to walk in. I was hoping that Tiffany would walk in while she was confronting him about his addiction and not when Lettie began to confuse fantasy and reality and kissed him.  That was not to be but there had to be a way for Javier to come back into her life.

Lettie's mom's actions were clear to me. If you've never dealt with an active addict in your life she may seem hard and cruel. To me she was protecting not only Jacob but herself. The scene at the reunion showed that she does still love her daughter but in the end she can't have her in her life or allow her in Jacob's life.

I'm anxiously awaiting the next episode. Dockery is amazing.

[pasdetrois]

Loved this episode - very fine. There's no hell like going to a small southern town reunion when you are the bad girl.

It never occurred to me that the heroin belonged to Tiffany's husband. I wildly thought that Javier had somehow put it there to manipulate Tiffany into forcing Letty out of the house and back into his arms. (I must be working too hard because that scenario is implausible.)

Jacob broke my heart. There are so many Jacobs in the world.

[ZoloftBlob]

"There is an R.O. bigger than life against her in Danville." I get the impression that whatever led to the 1000 foot stay away order had to have been pretty awful. Right now Lettie is being played as the one to be pitied as she loves her son and isn't allowed to see him but... I wonder what the big reveal will be. Dockery is wonderful in the role and so is the actor who plays Javier. This episode was the first where I was a bit meh on the bit players - the friend Tiffany and the husband were blah. One thing I am finding distracting tho is that Dockery looks and dresses very Hollywood and she's supposed to be an excon, exmeth addict who never graduated high school. Yes I get the idea that she's bright but she was also raised in a hick town in the south.... Lettie is way too put together for someone of her background.

[PBSLover]

Tiffany was horrible to her yet Letty sang her praises to her husband, which I thought was magnanimous of her.  Letty has lucid, insightful moments throughout this series.  It just adds to her complexity.

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

This episode was the first where I was a bit meh on the bit players - the friend Tiffany and the husband were blah.

I think the casting was done on purpose.  I thought it worked for the characters.

[zxy556575]

Everyone changes as they age, yadda yadda, but I couldn't see Letty and Tiffany as ever having been tight.

[Nanu160]

In addition to being very impressed by this series, I live in Wilmington N.C, where some of this is filmed. Anyone else here loving the shots at Carolina Fish Fry, Boiling Spring Lakes quickie stores, references to Jungle Rapids, etc?

[talktoomuch]

On Thursday, December 01, 2016 at 2:39 PM, lordonia said:

Everyone changes as they age, yadda yadda, but I couldn't see Letty and Tiffany as ever having been tight.

I could see it at the beginning when they were catching up and when Tiffany was showing Letty the apartment, but clearly they have both changed a lot in the intervening years. It seemed to me that Tiffany's shaky marriage was why she was wound so tight though.

[TaraS1]

On 11/30/2016 at 7:19 PM, starchild215 said:

Lettie's mom's actions were clear to me. If you've never dealt with an active addict in your life she may seem hard and cruel. To me she was protecting not only Jacob but herself. The scene at the reunion showed that she does still love her daughter but in the end she can't have her in her life or allow her in Jacob's life.

I'm anxiously awaiting the next episode. Dockery is amazing.

But the mom is allowing Letty into Jacob's life...for the tidy sum of $1,000 per visit.  I had no problem with the mom's tough love otherwise, but the money thing ruined all of her credibility in terms of truly putting Jacob and his well-being first.

And ITA about MD - man, is she good in this.

[starchild215]

Yeah the $1000 is worthy of a side eye BUT Letty left how much in the mail box? Once again Letty meant well and her attempt has the opposite effect. 

[TaraS1]

On 12/1/2016 at 0:18 PM, ZoloftBlob said:

This episode was the first where I was a bit meh on the bit players - the friend Tiffany and the husband were blah. 

I recognized the guy playing Kyle (Justin Bruening) from his stint about a decade or so ago on All My Children.  His acting skills then were....well, he was cute and he seemed nice.  

[PBSLover]

17 hours ago, starchild215 said:

Yeah the $1000 is worthy of a side eye BUT Letty left how much in the mail box? Once again Letty meant well and her attempt has the opposite effect. 

$20,000.  Her mother bought her son a new wardrobe with it and then put it in the bank in a college fund. So Letty did a good thing.

[TaraS1]

I wish when the mom struck the $1000/visit deal with Letty, they would have had her say it was going to Jacob's college fund.  That would've redeemed her at least a little bit in my eyes.  Extorting Letty to line her own pockets just makes me hate her.

[Nanu160]

I just want to know what Letty did that was THAT BAD, drugs and larceny aside.

[k1ptog2]

7 hours ago, PBSLover said:

$20,000.  Her mother bought her son a new wardrobe with it and then put it in the bank in a college fund. So Letty did a good thing.

I do not believe for one minute that her mother saved any of that money for her son.  

[talktoomuch]

16 hours ago, Nanu160 said:

I just want to know what Letty did that was THAT BAD, drugs and larceny aside.

As the daughter of a heroin addict/alcoholic who did a stint at a low security "prison" for embezzlement, I can definitively say that drugs and larceny alone can really be THAT BAD.

[PBSLover]

15 hours ago, k1ptog2 said:

I do not believe for one minute that her mother saved any of that money for her son.  

I wonder if we will ever find out.

5 hours ago, talktoomuch said:

As the daughter of a heroin addict/alcoholic who did a stint at a low security "prison" for embezzlement, I can definitively say that drugs and larceny alone can really be THAT BAD.

Sorry about that.  Truly. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 12/3/2016 at 4:29 PM, Nanu160 said:

In addition to being very impressed by this series, I live in Wilmington N.C, where some of this is filmed. Anyone else here loving the shots at Carolina Fish Fry, Boiling Spring Lakes quickie stores, references to Jungle Rapids, etc?

I'm in Raleigh, but do visit Wilmington.  Thanks for reminding me that it is filmed in NC. 

[talktoomuch]

@PBSLover you are such a sweetheart! Thank you. It made for a rather harrowing childhood.  However, by the time I moved back to my hometown as an adult, my Dad had finally(!) conquered his demons. We were able to develop a really strong and healthy relationship over the last 10 years of his life. And to bring this back OT...I hope for Jacob's sake Letty gets it together while he's still young.

[PBSLover]

20 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

 

@PBSLover you are such a sweetheart! Thank you. It made for a rather harrowing childhood.  However, by the time I moved back to my hometown as an adult, my Dad had finally(!) conquered his demons. We were able to develop a really strong and healthy relationship over the last 10 years of his life.

talktoomuch - You are welcome. :0]

[fish72]

Hello !

Recalling the 3rd episode, I remember that letti left Javier with the car at night, And the 4th episode starts with a recap of them being at a diner and Javier talking to his brother in law about david calling him.

Are these minor plot holes ? Because I don't remember any reference to that in earlier episodes.....

Edited December 28, 2016 by fish72

[Irlandesa]

On 11/24/2016 at 0:52 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I actually do think Letty wants her son back and I don't find her claims insulting at all.  Actually the exact opposite.   She does mean well but at this point she is too lost in her addiction and bad choices and yet she is not a bad person.  If she was she wouldn't have taken the fall for her friend's husband.

I started watching this show, even if it's doomed, because of the good reviews I've been reading around and I find I'm enjoying it quite a bit.  The leads are terrific. 

She did do Kyle a favor by not busting him but I do think Letty plays a game of moral relativism in her head.  She can see herself doing something good by covering for him.  And returning the favor after he gave her a job.  But there's also the aspect that her word has zero credibility compared to his. If they get into a he said/she said, she'd lose. Covering for him was the only choice where she could get a win--up until the point where she was caught kissing him.

But continuing on that moral relativism, just because she tries to do decent things every now and then to people she's chosen to invest in, doesn't make her a good person. Sometimes she does that simply to make herself feel better.  Meanwhile, she steals from victims.  She hurts them.  Sometimes it's for drugs and sometimes it's just to get a high from stealing.  And the disregard for total strangers does kind of make her a bad person. One we sympathize with because the story's told from her POV.

On 11/29/2016 at 9:06 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Still not sold on Letty and Javier because he was at first basically holding her hostage. "You came/You called" was a killer moment though. It was hard not to swoon.

That's how I see them too.  But they are also a ridiculously sexy couple on looks, chemistry and tension.  They're the artistic depiction of a relationship that's "bad" logically but what's good is so addictive that the bad is ignored as long as possible.

On 12/1/2016 at 11:18 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

One thing I am finding distracting tho is that Dockery looks and dresses very Hollywood and she's supposed to be an excon, exmeth addict who never graduated high school. Yes I get the idea that she's bright but she was also raised in a hick town in the south.... Lettie is way too put together for someone of her background.

I realize the outfits can be explained away by stealing, although I'm surprised they haven't raised any eyebrows.  I do wish they'd explain where she gets her polish.  Was she addicted to Hollywood glamour?  Was she in theater in high school?  Did she practice her diction? 

On 12/6/2016 at 0:18 PM, TaraS1 said:

I recognized the guy playing Kyle (Justin Bruening) from his stint about a decade or so ago on All My Children.  His acting skills then were....well, he was cute and he seemed nice.  

Collette Wolfe, the wife, played Edgar's girlfriend on You're The Worst for the past two season.  Because I liked her there (it was comic and realistically hearbreaking), I liked her here. 

[Nanu160]

Yes! Dorothy.

[talktoomuch]

On Monday, January 02, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Irlandesa said:

But continuing on that moral relativism, just because she tries to do decent things every now and then to people she's chosen to invest in, doesn't make her a good person. Sometimes she does that simply to make herself feel better.  Meanwhile, she steals from victims.  She hurts them.  Sometimes it's for drugs and sometimes it's just to get a high from stealing.  And the disregard for total strangers does kind of make her a bad person.

This! It bothers me the most with how she has  helped ruined Christian's life and never lookes back.

[TaraS1]

I was rewatching this episode last night and noticed for the first time that when we first see Tiffany & Kyle's house, Rob's Grasshoppers are working on the lawn.  I wonder if the Dashes get the VIP service aspect?

And when Letty asks Kyle how good of a lawyer he is, he says medium.  

Spoiler

Nice call back to that in the finale, when he asks Letty how she's feeling and she says medium.

Edited January 19, 2017 by saoirse
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