S12.E05: The One You’ve Been Waiting For

[Diane]

Quote

 

After learning that the soul of Adolf Hitler has been trapped in a 1930’s gold pocket watch, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) must act quickly to prevent a group of Nazi necromancers from resurrecting the Führer.

Meredith Glynn penned the episode, directed by Nina Lopez-Corrado.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by SilverStormm
Corrected episode format

[Mick Lady]

And here comes catrox in three, two, one....!

[catrox14]

Because it's Thursday somewhere...

.

[Mick Lady]

catrox, you never let me down! God I love you!

Don't ever change!!

Edited November 10, 2016 by Mick Lady

[Demented Daisy]

Did Dean really just say that he's got "the kraut"?  Not cool, show.  Do you have any idea what Dean just said?

I am so disappointed.

[MysteryGuest]

What the hell was that?  This was not a good episode.  So much for the big return of Aaron Bass.  Was he even on for 2 minutes?  I don't know who wrote this episode, but it was pretty bad.  I don't really even know what to say.

[Jediknight]

So we've gotten the British Men of Letters, Mr Ketch who was called in by the British Men of Letters and he murdered an innocent girl last week, and this week we got the return of the Nazi Tools and Hitler.  Yeah, this season they're definitely setting up a human as the big bad, and pushing a plot that says humans can be even worse than demons.

I'm glad they didn't try to make Ellie and the offspring of the head Nazi Tool a romantic thing.  I was worried they were going to try that, but thankfully they didn't do that, heck they didn't even part as friends.  And man, Ellie got like the worst news she could possibly get.  I think most people would throw up if they found out they were related to Hitler.

The scene in the Nazi memorabilia room had to be one of the hardest scenes ever for Jensen and Jared to film.  That had to be incredibly uncomfortable, even just acting, I know I'd be uncomfortable being surrounded by all that.

Dean killed Hitler, hopefully they mention that.

[Jynnan tonnix]

Really, really bad. And I'm not even typically a very critical viewer, but this was just wrong on all levels from story to tone to character...everything was just way....WAY...off...As though it was written by a middle-schooler with only a passing acquaintance with the show.

I don't even know what more to say about it. 

[catrox14]

That was ...not good.  I think Dean can retire now. He killed Hitler.

But I'm sure letting Son of Necromancer go will turn out just fine....

Loved seeing Aaron back and I'm happy he didn't die. 

The best parts were the fight scenes and Dean proud of himself.

So Dean and Sam don't call Rowena for a tracking spell and don't call Cas for help when going against NAZIS??

I'm not going to complain about the directing, that entire concept was ....not good. 

DO. BETTER. SHOW.

[Morrigan2575]

I liked the episode, it was fun. I was oddly fond of Jackass Jr. The actor looked really familiar but maybe he just has that look. I also liked Ellie, she was at times very annoying and at others sweet/cute/funny. The actress also looked weirdly familiar but I think she just reminded me of Sheri Appleby

The Thieul guy that ended up being Hitler was hilarious. I think the last few minutes were really fun.

I was massively disappointed that we only got a 1 minute scene of Aaron, I was really looking forward to his return. I kept hoping Aaron or the Golem would show up but, sadly no.

I wish Dean got to use the Rocket Launcher, and loved the fact that he "killed Hitler"

Edited November 11, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Jediknight]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So Dean and Sam don't call Rowena for a tracking spell and don't call Cas for help when going against NAZIS??

They may not be able to reach Rowena.  She's off doing her own thing now, so they may not even have her number.

[MysteryGuest]

I just don't find Hitler all that funny, I guess.  I'm sort of surprised they played so much of this for humor.  It was a bit jarring at times.  Maybe I just have an election hangover, but I really didn't find it funny.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

They may not be able to reach Rowena.  She's off doing her own thing now, so they may not even have her number.

What about Cas?

[Jediknight]

Just now, catrox14 said:

What about Cas?

I got nothing in that regard.  I'd imagine both he and Crowley would jump at the possibility to take out Nazis, so not calling them was stupid.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

I got nothing in that regard.  I'd imagine both he and Crowley would jump at the possibility to take out Nazis, so not calling them was stupid.

Interesting existential question. Would a Demon/King of Hell and an Angel of the Lord even care about Nazi's?

[bethy]

I don't know. I actually enjoyed most of it. Until Hitler showed up. I'm not sure WHAT that characterization was supposed to be, but wow. So bad.

I liked the boys working together and the back and forth between them.

I liked the girl. I thought she was funny and kind of dug that ultimately, she killed a Nazi zombie, burned the body and was like, "Back to med school, I guess."

For some reason, the Nazi dad bemoaning his millennial son made me laugh.

I also got a kick out of Dean's, "Meltdown time is over."  Yep. There's a time for melting down and then it's time to put on your big girl pants and do something.

Next week:

Spoiler

Jodie Mills!

[Jynnan tonnix]

3 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just don't find Hitler all that funny, I guess.  I'm sort of surprised they played so much of this for humor.  It was a bit jarring at times.  Maybe I just have an election hangover, but I really didn't find it funny.

I was rather thinking the same thing...Playing the whole thing so broad really was very jarring. It had occurred to me that maybe they had timed this as a post-election episode anticipating a different result?

[catrox14]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Interesting existential question. Would a Demon/King of Hell and an Angel of the Lord even care about Nazi's?

Crowley was watching Nazi films when he was introduced so yeah I think he would care, the question is could he be trusted.  And Cas is there to help humanity. So yes I think he would definitely care about Hitler especially after getting the data dump from Metatron.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just don't find Hitler all that funny, I guess.  I'm sort of surprised they played so much of this for humor.  It was a bit jarring at times.  Maybe I just have an election hangover, but I really didn't find it funny.

I think they were going for the mock Hitler in the vein of Mel Brooks but they aren't Mel Brooks. 

I was satisfied with Dean being all 'Yup, I sure do sublimate, so leave me alone'. And I was happy that he decided that once he killed Hitler, he deserved some pie.

I did not care for the too long scene about the grenade launcher. It should have been about two lines shorter.  

[SueB]

Even I am a little too down to take the episode in stride.  It wasn't offensive or horrible but it wasn't 'must rewatch immediately' for me.  I do think the last two days of horrible neo-Nazis harassing people has made me queasy about the subject. 

Highlights:

- Sam went out of his way to get Dean pie.  I thought it was sweet. He usually does 'care taking' by encouraging talk.  The pie was a nice touch. 

- The grenade  launcher.  It's now my headcannon that Dean tries to break out the grenade launcher a lot more than we see.

- I liked Ellie's WTF attitude.  She had real personality.  

- Aaron cameo  

- Research Dean. I don't care if he's sublimating.

- Good fight scene.  

Lowlights:

- Neo-Nazi antique buyer.  Slimely price upping dealer.

- I thought Nazi dad was one-note (although I liked his mercurial turn as insane zombie Hitler)

[Wynne88]

Quote

Until Hitler showed up. I'm not sure WHAT that characterization was supposed to be, but wow. 

I thought maybe they were implying that the talk-a-mile-a-minute girl's blood had had an impact on Hitler's personality.  Otherwise, no idea.

[MysteryGuest]

The interactions with Sam and Dean were fine.  The girl was good.  I was concerned for a brief moment that the kid was going to save the girl while Sam and Dean were just hanging out in that diner, drinking coffee and surfing the web.  But obviously, that didn't happen.  

It was just the Nazi stuff I found poorly written, badly acted and pretty bizarre, actually.  

I guess the good news is that it's making me long to get back to the Mary and BMOL storylines.  I suppose that's something.  I really was hoping for some good MOW episodes, but I'm not too sure we're going to get those this season.

Edited November 11, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Aww, I didn't mind it too much.  There were some cute scenes and lines that made me smile, and honestly that was really what I was looking for tonight. And Dean being in the whole episode was a bonus!

Maybe during a rewatch later, I'll be more critical.  Tonight I just wanted to watch Dean and forget about the real world for an hour.  

PS - sorry for the lame post.  I love the discussions on this board and lurk all the time, everyone has such thoughtful views.  Selfishly, I wanted to post because then I'll get an email every time one of you lovely people say something.  Thank you!

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

I don't know. I actually enjoyed most of it. Until Hitler showed up. I'm not sure WHAT that characterization was supposed to be, but wow. So bad.

Supposedly Hitler was a pretty fun guy in real life. He's described as being the loving/fun uncle type who was great with kids and dogs. He was prone to fits of rage but, was also generous and caring to his inner circle.

I'm by no means defending the guy but, I think the characterization (while extremely different from what's normally seen in film) was intentional. This was supposed to be the "real" Hitler, not the carefully crafted public image that's preserved in history and, usually portrayed in films.  I think the point was that the Thieul, even the ones that knew him during the war, bought into the image of Hitler over their real memories. That's why they were flabbergasted over his behavior. At least that was my interpretation.

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Crowley was watching Nazi films when he was introduced so yeah I think he would care, the question is could he be trusted.  And Cas is there to help humanity. So yes I think he would definitely care about Hitler especially after getting the data dump from Metatron.

I remember the scene but, as much as I love him, I kind if think Crowley would be more "Nazis? I'm trying to kill Lucifer and your bugging me about some stupid Nazi's?".

Of course, I also suspect Crowley would probably love to sit down for a spot of Tea and chat with Hitler.

Before I forget, I loved Hitler's comment about Social Media and a Tiny Pocket full of Goebbels. Sad but true.

22 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

 It had occurred to me that maybe they had timed this as a post-election episode anticipating a different result?

I certainly think it's a possibility. There were a few comments in the episode that kicked me in the gut with relevance to the Real World

[Diane]

Know what I needed to laugh tonight, love the grenade launcher. Loved the Aaron cameo. Liked that the good guys prevailed. Loved loved loved that Dean killed Hitler. Sam bought Dean pie, so sweet. It has been a long hard week and I am taking the high road, just enjoyed the escape.

[companionenvy]

Yeah, that was just terrible. Where do I start?

- Ellie was a mess. I don't know if it was the actress, the writing, or a combination, but her reactions to everything were unbelievable on basically every level. And I'm not sure what they were going for with the absurd pop psychology about "escaping," but it didn't work. Also, who doesn't tell their adult child that they were adopted these days?

- Though I am beyond grateful that the Thule kid and Ellie didn't hook up, the idea that the downside of being a Nazi Necromancer's kid is that Christmas and Career Day were awkward is laughable, as is the show's typically anvilicious attempt to draw a parallel to Sam and Dean. John Winchester had a lot of problems, but the poor man wasn't a freaking Nazi. Plus, the show totally skirted the issue of the guy's ideology. He wasn't an "OG Thule," but was he a racist and anti-semite? Did he object on profound moral grounds to what daddy was doing, or was it just a case of (delayed) teenage rebellion mixed with fear?

-I call BS on the idea that a blood-obsessed Nazi would order the execution of his heir apparent on such relatively minor grounds. I mean, the kid had talked under threat of execution, and then been (from Dad's perspective) kind of snotty about the mission. That doesn't strike me as a death penalty offense even among total zealots. 

- Comedy Hitler. Just, no. That can work, but it needs care and time that the show obviously wasn't willing to spend, and probably a much better writer. Whatever Hitler's personality was like (apart from, you know, the genocide), we needed some explanation for why he was reincarnated as a total fruit loop, when clearly the guy we saw wasn't the engineer of the final solution (although I must admit, I laughed at "Its like having Goebbels in my pocket!"). And I just can't deal with one of the great (human) monsters in history being dispatched with about as much difficulty as the average werewolf or vampire, and treated with about as much gravity as the subjects of the wacky meta-episodes. 

-Sam literally had the "I can relate to your freakishness, as I too had evil inside me" conversation with the week's Person in Peril just last week. Why are we rehashing it?

- The writing. Oh, Lord, the writing. "So, I know you're probably still processing the whole Hitler thing"? Ellie's tentative "Hitler?" when he resurrected? "Heil this!" Granted, that last one does sound like something Dean might actually say. Still, awful all round.

But Jodi next week, so not all is lost!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know this show doesn't always get it right, but they tried their best to get it wrong with this one.  A 90-second cameo from the big guest star from the last Thule-themed eppy?  Why bother bringing him back at all?  Why not just have a mention, ala "well, I called Aaron (Bass), and he said......" etc.

I don't know how to feel about this, or how I should even approach the idea of how to feel about it... but Show just (re)made Hitler a total assclown.  Like seriously.  I felt like there should have been a line from one of the Thule henchman to the other, something like "are we sure that we got the right pocket watch?".  Instead of returning from the end of Nazi Germany, this 'soul' looked like he just got back from a great weekend in Vegas.  I was too dumbfounded to even try and find the humor they planted to be 'enjoyed'.

Yes, you killed Hitler, Dean.  Maybe you should say it 1000x more, to make sure we understand that fact undoubtedly.

About the only non-wtf-or-bad thing I took from this episode was the nice vibes that Sam & Ellie had going on in their shared scenes.

Edited November 11, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Jediknight]

30 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

 Also, who doesn't tell their adult child that they were adopted these days?

Well she was related to Hitler, so that would be something they'd want to hide.  It's completely understandable they wouldn't tell her she's adopted, and went on with her being their birth daughter, so she doesn't have to live with the whole Hitler knowledge.

[Myrelle]

Quote

I wish Dean got to use the Rocket Launcher, and loved the fact that he "killed Hitler"

This. It was all I was interested in. Dean killed Hitler-and in a very BadAss manner. OO-Rah!!

[Wynne88]

One definite plus for me -  this was the second episode in a row that was just Sam and Dean; no Crowley or Castiel.  

[catrox14]

26 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Yes, you killed Hitler, Dean.  Maybe you should say it 1000x more, to make sure we understand that fact undoubtedly.

I hope he does. That's a pretty big get, non-God division.  I'd probably change my voice mail. "Hi you've reached CatFuckingRox14, Hitler-Killer. Leave a message at the beep" and leave it for at least a month :)

[Binns]

I'm not so keen on this one. I think it's hard to make Hitler funny- I found the humor too broad and I didn't feel they treated the idea of Hitler so...almost calvalierly. The monsters on this show are supernatural. The humans that are bad guys are delving into the supernatural (for the most part). I just don't see how Hitler fits into this- I get the Thule but this just felt off to me. Hard to put it into words. 

I have to say, it was even harder to watch this as we see the rise of neo-Nazi people post-election.

some of it I did enjoy- the interaction between the boys, the grenade launcher, no mention of Lucifer. 

[Mick Lady]

I come back, and this is the episode I get?

catrox, give me your number! I have to hear this!

But Dean killing Hitler? Awesome!

Some day catrox, will you please tell me how you got your screen name? Remember, I have cancer and all!

(Shameless attempt to manipulate you)

Edited November 11, 2016 by Mick Lady

[ahrtee]

I think I have a new least-favorite writer.  While there were a few good moments as others mentioned above, for me there were too many missteps (both with characters and plot), too many WTFs, too many way-too-stupid moments, too many logic fails.  

Generally bad/sloppy writing, bad characterizations not only of guest stars but also (in places) the boys, and a whole lot of missed opportunity.  Even though I had major doubts about the premise, I was actually looking forward to this ep.  *sigh*

[catrox14]

So Sam just randomly tells Ellie he was Lucifer's vessel?  And then last week he told Magda was he was psychic? Magda's dead at the hands of Mr. Ketch, taking Sam's secret with her.  How much you wanna bet Sam's secret about being Lucifer's vessel dies with her when Mr Ketch kills her too?  Maybe the BMOL are trying to set up Sam as a serial killer.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I think I have a new least-favorite writer.  While there were a few good moments as others mentioned above, for me there were too many missteps (both with characters and plot), too many WTFs, too many way-too-stupid moments, too many logic fails.  

Generally bad/sloppy writing, bad characterizations not only of guest stars but also (in places) the boys, and a whole lot of missed opportunity.  Even though I had major doubts about the premise, I was actually looking forward to this ep.  *sigh*

I was harsh on Davy Perez for American Nightmare and I'm being harsh with this new writer, but in the end Dabb is the head writer/showrunner. I would think he's going to read the final scripts of two brand new writers before they go into production, so I'm going to put most of the onus on him, especially given he's been around since what s3.

[Pete Martell]

I was going to watch this one as I heard Aaron was back, but apparently he's just in 30 seconds? Do you think they didn't really want him back but just gave him a cameo so fans like me would stop wanting him back? 

I guess at least he wasn't killed off. 

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I was going to watch this one as I heard Aaron was back, but apparently he's just in 30 seconds? Do you think they didn't really want him back but just gave him a cameo so fans like me would stop wanting him back? 

I guess at least he wasn't killed off. 

I wondered if maybe he had a bigger role but it was edited.  I know Adam Rose flew up from LA, filmed and then was back the same day. 

[Dobian]

Yay, my first ever first-run episode.  Actually it kind of sucks.  No more popping on Netflix whenever I want to see an episode I haven't seen before.  Now I have to wait a week for the next one, holiday break, four months to resolve the cliffhanger after the finale.  Ugh, why am I watching this show now?

This story just didn't do it for me.  The Nazi necromancers were always kind of ridiculous but I liked their first appearance.  Great grand-niece Hitler would never shut up, and reincarnated Hitler was a nut job.  For the first few moments I thought they were going for a twist where the wrong soul got into that watch and it was really Sigfried from accounting.  Now that would have actually been funny.  I really couldn't see them building the Fourth Reich with this guy if Dean hadn't killed him.  Yes, he "killed Hitler"!  Way to go, Dean, now go get yourself some pie.  Meh.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Dobian

[AuntTora]

Quote

I was going to watch this one as I heard Aaron was back, but apparently he's just in 30 seconds? Do you think they didn't really want him back but just gave him a cameo so fans like me would stop wanting him back? 

I read nothing about this ep in advance and I confess I kind of snoozed for a little bit (haven't been sleeping great these last couple days), so maybe I missed something. But this episode showed that Aaron had got into the Nazi necromancer smashing business, along with some group or other? which is news? Maybe they're just planting the seed for more of that later this year.

I'm now hoping Supernatural continues for a good long time. Like four years. Please? I'm not sure I can withstand news of the show wrapping up.

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, AuntTora said:

But this episode showed that Aaron had got into the Nazi necromancer smashing business, along with some group or other? which is news? Maybe they're just planting the seed for more of that later this year.

Aaron and the Golem were going through the Ledger killing off the Thieul listed. I don't think they were working with another group.

[mertensia]

I'm really appalled that the BMoL have been ignoring the Thule (unless of course the heads have been ignoring it because they're evil). They must know a resurrected Hitler would want the UK and the UK has plenty of Neo-Nazis who would happily help. 

I found the episode amusing. 

[ae2]

That was pure, unabashed fun. I laughed an awful lot.

"I love doggies. Woof woof woof!"

Dean's face as the realization that he killed Hitler had me laughing for a solid two minutes.

Oh yeah, there was some memo that we are supposed to slyly insert a commiserating reference to the election in every post, right? Um... well... I killed Hitler!

Edited November 11, 2016 by ae2

[MysteryGuest]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I would think he's going to read the final scripts of two brand new writers before they go into production, so I'm going to put most of the onus on him, especially given he's been around since what s3.

This is turning out to be my biggest disappointment so far this season.  I get the impression they don't care much anymore and this makes me sad.  I know the show has been on for a long time, but I was really hopeful that by being able to pretty much hit the restart button after dealing with God last season, we'd get some really good one-off monster stories.  Even if those monsters turn out to be the human kind, I was still expecting much better than this.  

There were some funny individual scenes, like the rocket launcher one, but unfortunately it didn't really work for me because I don't see them wasting time to kid around like that when they know that Hitler is about to be re-born, and the young woman they failed to protect is in danger.  It's out of character and just bad writing.  They switched back and forth between humor and drama constantly, and it simply didn't work.  

I'm a Dean fan, but even I got sick of the "I killed Hitler" routine.  It wasn't that big a win because they turned Hitler into a loon.  The original Nazi episode was a thousand times better than this.  This was a lazy retread, without any of the drama or charm of the first episode.

Edited November 11, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[Aeryn13]

The episode having this particular subject matter and Legends of Tomorrow on the same night dealing with a political matter, too, I imagine showrunners and writers expected a different vibe and climate post-election. What should have been little "haha"-s are now somewhat sad and frightening reminders. But that really can`t be helped right now, unfortunate as it is.

I thought it was an uneven episode but to be fair they spoiled "goofy!Hitler" way in advance. From the moment they talked about this episode, it was clear that this was the direction they were gonna go. So I did my cringing of "really? this is the stuff you want to make fun of?" way back in July or so. I just shrugged it off during the episode.

And I truly liked that Dean got to have badass moments and action-scenes where he wasn`t immediately beat down by any random schmoe for a change. I missed this so much. Hopefully it starts a trend.    

Furthermore, there wasn`t another stupid lesson for him about how he is coping wrong. Nope, ultimately a simple bit of success makes him feel better. Thank you, new writer.

This was by no means a slam dunk of an episode but whereas Davy Perez is now instant skip-material to me, I`m not hating the thought of this writer penning another episode. So on a personal level, mucho better than last week.

[MysteryGuest]

I guess I missed the hints that this was going be a comedic take on Hitler this time.  I knew they were bringing back Aaron Bass and the Nazi necromancers, but that's all I picked up on.  I might have been slightly less offended if I had expected humor going in, but I still don't think there was much to like about the episode.

They have a talented group of actors on this show, and they owe them better writing than this.  They owe their loyal audience better writing than this.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, that was...unexpected doesn't seem to cover it. I wasn't offended by it, but didn't find it appealing either. Actually checked out for a good chunk of it. It was pretty uneven and uninspiring; even the fight scenes were boring, IMO.  I'm not sure I would've felt any differently if election results and current events weren't what they were. 

The thing with Hitler being a clown is they needed to walk a tighter line with it. It needed grounding, IMO. TBH, I don't think there was enough to the concept to make an entire episode out of. I think they thought it would be funny to have a couple scenes of Hitler acting like a stupid child, but had nothing else to go with it to make a compelling reason to actually make the episode. Sometimes offhand jokes just don't a good episode make and the show should know that by now.

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was harsh on Davy Perez for American Nightmare and I'm being harsh with this new writer, but in the end Dabb is the head writer/showrunner. I would think he's going to read the final scripts of two brand new writers before they go into production, so I'm going to put most of the onus on him, especially given he's been around since what s3.

Dabb's been around since S4, but yeah, it's ultimately on him. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt since he's got a whole bunch of new writers and lots of other new staff to try and wrangle. I gave Carver (and Gamble) the benefit of the doubt too, but my patience is not unlimited here. I figure they all start gelling by the time we come back from the break or... .

Anyway, with the writers themselves, I usually give them two or three episodes before I call it. So much that ends up on screen isn't only down to the writing. Plus, just being new to the gig might mean it takes them an episode or two to find their legs. I can't think of any of the past writers who knocked it out of the park on their first episode. Most of the better ones grew into it over the years. It remains to be seen if that can happen with these guys.

7 hours ago, Dobian said:

Yay, my first ever first-run episode.  Actually it kind of sucks.  No more popping on Netflix whenever I want to see an episode I haven't seen before.  Now I have to wait a week for the next one, holiday break, four months to resolve the cliffhanger after the finale.  Ugh, why am I watching this show now?

Welcome to the dark side, Dobian. Too bad the dark side wasn't fun or even good this week, but it's nice to have company when one's sitting in the dark. ;)

4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I guess I missed the hints that this was going be a comedic take on Hitler this time.  I knew they were bringing back Aaron Bass and the Nazi necromancers, but that's all I picked up on.  I might have been slightly less offended if I had expected humor going in, but I still don't think there was much to like about the episode.

Oh, I remember them talking about it terms of it allowing them to do some crazy things and then they released that promo with Hitler laughing like a loon, so yeah, I expected it to be a comedic take. But even with my expectations set for it, I didn't find it funny. So, don't worry, I don't think it makes a difference. I think you're going to see what you see with these things.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I guess I missed the hints that this was going be a comedic take on Hitler this time. 

I think Dabb or Singer, either at one of the Comic Con roundtables or another print interview later or possibly both, said it flat-out, that their version of Hitler would be crazy and comic-y. And while I always would have rolled my eyes at making Hitler of all people  into a goofball version, I think it might have gone over better if real life events were different right now. The implications of a political figure with horrifying rhetorics that is portrayed and seen as a clown you can`t take seriously wasn`t exactly subtle.  

Quote

They have a talented group of actors on this show, and they owe them better writing than this.  They owe their loyal audience better writing than this.

I thought the same thing about last week`s episode. Or many other eps before it. In comparism this one was downright enjoyable to me. At least in certain areas.     

[ahrtee]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was harsh on Davy Perez for American Nightmare and I'm being harsh with this new writer, but in the end Dabb is the head writer/showrunner. I would think he's going to read the final scripts of two brand new writers before they go into production, so I'm going to put most of the onus on him, especially given he's been around since what s3.

 

29 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Dabb's been around since S4, but yeah, it's ultimately on him. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt since he's got a whole bunch of new writers and lots of other new staff to try and wrangle. I gave Carver (and Gamble) the benefit of the doubt too, but my patience is not unlimited here. I figure they all start gelling by the time we come back from the break or... .

Anyway, with the writers themselves, I usually give them two or three episodes before I call it. So much that ends up on screen isn't only down to the writing. Plus, just being new to the gig might mean it takes them an episode or two to find their legs. I can't think of any of the past writers who knocked it out of the park on their first episode. Most of the better ones grew into it over the years. It remains to be seen if that can happen with these guys.

 

IA that Dabb should have some control over the scripts that go out.  I don't know if he's still finding his showrunner legs or if he's not that hands-on, but this one just didn't work for me.  And new writers don't have to hit it out of the park the first time, but there's a difference between a bad Supernatural script, and a bad script in general and this one, IMO, was both.  OTOH, I've been pretty cranky lately so I might just be...cranky.  (And no, that's not (necessarily) a veiled reference to the political climate right now...)  

I don't know if the writer came up with the story or if it was planned in script meetings and then assigned (the way they do with directors) or a combination thereof, but it felt like there was a checklist of things to put in and the writer just went down the list without really trying to make them work:

1.  Dean's issues with mom.  Sam is worried. Check.

2.  Dean's relationship with pie. Check (and double-check!)

3.  Sam can hack into anything in 2 minutes or less. Check.

4.  Aaron and his Golem.  Half check.

5.  Young female in jeopardy.  Check.

6.  Young male in conflict with his family and wanting out of the family business.  Check.

7.  Sam being empathetic by relating to victim(s). Check.

8.  Sam and Dean first being bested by badguys and then winning the day by killing the Big Bad.  Checkity check.  

Add in the particular Supernatural story line (this time, it's Hitler's Back!) and a few comedic (or not so comedic) beats (here:  Dean being clumsy in the antique shop, Sam trying to explain Lucifer to traumatized vic, YoungNazi complaining about bringing his dad to career day at school, and Funny Hitler) and we've got the basics of a Supernatural story.  This is all normal and not necessarily bad, if it's well done.  But IMO, It just *wasn't* well written.  And I put that on the writer, not (necessarily) the showrunner.  All the points were checked, just not well.  Other writers have done better on their first try.  So...on my least favorite list.  It doesn't mean I'm going to skip future eps, just that s/he's going to have to try a lot harder next time.  

[Myrelle]

I expect so little from the writers of this show, at this point. All I now ask or hope for from them is that they remember that Dean is a main character and that JA is one of the lead actors and that he be written accordingly in any given episode(with screen-time not being the main issue, in that regard); and that they get Dean's core characterization right. This writer did all three for me, so kudos to her for succeeding in those areas that last week's newbie failed completely in for some of us.