S03.E04: The Dissent Memo

[CooperTV]

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The Dalton administration comes under criticism by the Bureau of African Affairs for their lack of attention to the upcoming Angolan election; and it falls upon Elizabeth to ease their fears over the situation. Elsewhere, Russell needs help getting the president on the ballot in Ohio; Henry and Jose find themselves one step closer to locating the antiquities stolen by Hizb al-Shahid.

Promo:

 

Promo pictures

[Netfoot]

Did I miss Stevie's wedding?

[bros402]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Did I miss Stevie's wedding?

Pretty sure they are still boyfriend-girlfriend

[Beden]

I was surprised when Stevie and the BF were on a bus going wherever and no security in sight (maybe they were in a different row?). The stalking thing is still ongoing and supposedly security has been beefed up. Struck me as a hole in the plot or continuity.

[MaryHedwig]

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I was surprised when Stevie and the BF were on a bus going wherever and no security in sight (maybe they were in a different row?). The stalking thing is still ongoing and supposedly security has been beefed up. Struck me as a hole in the plot or continuity.

It does seem like the Steve and the BF story are run independently of the security plot. However...Stevie's BF is on my suspect list.

How could Steve have spend a summer in England and not figured out the BF's mother was titled?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Beden said:

I was surprised when Stevie and the BF were on a bus going wherever and no security in sight (maybe they were in a different row?). The stalking thing is still ongoing and supposedly security has been beefed up. Struck me as a hole in the plot or continuity.

I was surprised that they weren't using a car, and then got a sense of dread, but that might have been because the music got spookier, and the show often drops the other shoe at the end of an episode.

 

 

8 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

...However...Stevie's BF is on my suspect list....

Mine too!

Edited October 31, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Tara]

There are too many storylines.  It's exhausting.  And the most convoluted ones are usually when Henry gets involved in international affairs.

[gus]

Does anyone else think Daisy leaked the memo?

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, gus said:

Does anyone else think Daisy leaked the memo?

I was very suspicious of her.  But the issue is now dead, right?  Or will it surface later to generate some drama?

[MaryHedwig]

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Does anyone else think Daisy leaked the memo?

Absolutely. I hope that wasn't a dropped storyline. I wondered if the Undersecretary suspected or knew it was Daisy.

Some I know today liken the Stevie/BF bus ride to the last scene in the Graduate. Dustin Hoffman bursts into a wedding to dramatic nab the bride, then we both get on a bus and look bored and distant.

Edited October 31, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[VinceW]

On 10/31/2016 at 9:21 AM, Tara said:

There are too many storylines.  It's exhausting.  And the most convoluted ones are usually when Henry gets involved in international affairs.

There was so much ongoing with the Angola story that it was hard to keep up with both the setup of the religious artifact mission and the Stevie/Jared conversations.  In addiction, the writers were forced by the network to insert a NFL connection into the election arc using the James Brown interview for whatever reason. I had to do a playback with close caption ON to understand the back story behind the Henry/Jose decision to use the female CIA agent, but the playback was no help trying to follow the Jared ramblings about his family. The McCord parent advice to Stevie made little sense. It seemed pretty obvious from their scenes together that they need more time before thinking about marriage. 

I got annoyed and somewhat distracted during the episode trying to find any continuity from the last two episodes with the kids getting assigned bodyguards versus Stevie telling her parents about what went on during her visit to England. There was an unexplained time jump that got viewers past the Stevie trip to England. After the season premiere, the audience learns that Stevie was not going to England for another month, but during this episode the writers tell us she has already gone to England and came back a month ago.

Edited November 5, 2016 by VinceW

[MaryHedwig]

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I got annoyed and somewhat distracted during the episode trying to find any continuity from the last two episodes with the kids getting assigned bodyguards and what Stevie was telling her parents about what went on during her visit to England.

Where were the two younger kids? Did their FBI security decide to take them to a protective custody ski lodge?

[MerBearHou]

Two things that got to me in the Stevie/BF storyline:  her dad's advice on MARRIAGE (not just dating someone, actual marriage) was so weak, I thought.  

Second, when Jareth decided quickly that they would live in the US, that didn't begin to address Stevie's concerns whatsoever on his snobbery, changing personalities and making her feel "less than".  She seemed more than disenchanted with him, far beyond the weather in England, and I want her to work through those issues.

[secnarf]

I feel like there were so many red flags with Jareth/Stevie's description of Jareth in this episode. I'm not convinced he's behind the stalking, but alarm bells are definitely going off.

[Netfoot]

And besides, Stevie is an idiot.  Everybody knows the milk goes in the cup before the tea!

[bros402]

Yeah, I think the Goblin King is the hacker, too.

[shapeshifter]

12 hours ago, gus said:

Does anyone else think Daisy leaked the memo?

I think that would be out of character, but it wouldn't surprise me if they go there — but it would seriously bug me.

[Beden]

9 hours ago, Netfoot said:

And besides, Stevie is an idiot.  Everybody knows the milk goes in the cup before the tea!

Well yes, but the UK is also a country where toast is served stone cold, making it impossible to smear the butter and have it melt (as God intended)...and apologies to my Brit friends but, seriously...they know I'm right about this. They are also appalled that I happen to prefer my tea black, eliminating the milk quandary.

And I'm suspicious about the BF also. He may not be a spy or whatever, but he's a jerk.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Netfoot said:

And besides, Stevie is an idiot.  Everybody knows the milk goes in the cup before the tea!

I put my milk in after. I often put the mug with the tea bag and water in the microwave first. It's faster that way when I'm on a lunch break. But It would make sense to put the milk in first if I don't want to spend an extra 15 seconds (or minute on the gas stove) heating the water. I wasn't served tea with milk growing up, but started drinking it that way before Google. Do Canadians or Welsh put milk in tea? Maybe that's where I learned of it but never saw it made. If Stevie offered to make and serve tea but didn't see how it was done in not so "merry old England," I think the bf and his mum should've cut her a little slack. So, he's probably a mama's boy rather than an evil stalker.  

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I put my milk in after. I often put the mug with the tea bag and water in the microwave first.

A proper cup of tea is brewed from loose tea leaves in a teapot.  The pot is pre-warmed with boiling water, which is then thrown away.  The tea leaves are added (one spoonful for each cup, and one for the pot) and fresh boiling water poured over them.  Once the tea has drawn, it is poured through a tea strainer, onto the cold milk (or preferably cream) in the cup.  Teabags can be substituted for loose leaves, but this gives an inferior cup of tea, and has the double disadvantage that there are no leaves in the bottom of your cup, making a "reading" impossible.

If the abomination of a teabag directly in a cup is used (the horror!), then I suppose you can forgive the maker for not putting cold milk and dry teabag together!

For some reason, many revere the simplistic Japanese tea ceremony.

[Skycatcher]

4 hours ago, Beden said:

Well yes, but the UK is also a country where toast is served stone cold, making it impossible to smear the butter and have it melt (as God intended)...and apologies to my Brit friends but, seriously...they know I'm right about this. They are also appalled that I happen to prefer my tea black, eliminating the milk quandary.

Two words........

WARM BEER!

Edited November 1, 2016 by Skycatcher

[kwnyc]

Glad to see we're focusing on important social issues like how tea is served! ;-)

That said: Daisy was so vociferous about tracking down the leaker, I DID wonder if it were her.

Hope we see more of the woman who is head of the African bureau; she was totally insubordinate, but Bess gave her a chance to get back over it and apologize, which I think is the way she deals with people who have strong feelings (feelings that she herself can't express, as she has with Jay.) I've seen some very good woman managers do this, and they end up with an utterly loyal staff.

Jareth is not a character, he is a compilation of swoony traits, like the imaginary boyfriend in Inside Out. Stalker? Maybe.

And Henry sure is good at sending operatives in and getting them blowed up/kidnapped/lost, isn't he? How have they explained his current assignment in the family? Or HAVE they? "Dad goes to work 'consulting' at the Pentagon."

And Bess is a very good non-campaigning campaigner. (Also, it looks like Conrad's big donor hasn't completely committed to the party candidate.)

HAS Conrad announced his VP choice? 

ETA: I was also wondering about the real life use of a "dissent memo," and found that one has been filed as recently as last June, by diplomats and staffers, about the US policy on Syria. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by kwnyc
Add additional info

[roughing it]

Not only are Stevie's tea skills a mess, so is her hair.

[Scott]

25 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

That said: Daisy was so vociferous about tracking down the leaker, I DID wonder if it were her.

Well, and the camera lingered on her for those two extra beats when she first got the memo.  I actually expected to come here and have to post "Geez, show, don't make it so obvious" when they revealed her as the leaker.  Either they're better than I thought (and I'm not as good), or I'll be vindicated in a future episode.

I, too, got the Graduate feel from the ending, although given my track record with this episode, I'm not going to speculate if it was intentional or not.

[Dowel Jones]

I laughed at Stevie's reaction to Jareth's snobbery.  Here's a hint, Stevie.  Democrat or Republican? Protestant or Catholic? Ivy League or State College?  Country Club or Public Golf Course? Dow Jones or Nasdaq?  Nope, no snobbery on this side of the ocean.

19 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

her dad's advice on MARRIAGE (not just dating someone, actual marriage) was so weak, I thought.  

He should have added on:  "And then there are the children."

[VinceW]

20 hours ago, Netfoot said:

And besides, Stevie is an idiot.  Everybody knows the milk goes in the cup before the tea!

Giving Stevie a pass on the milk and tea for now...............

From the HealthStatus.com blog:

'Milk In Your Tea? Not A Good Idea'

"If you like tea, you probably drink it for pleasure, not for its health benefits. More than two billion people in the world drink tea. Many acquired a habit to add a bit of milk to their regular cup of tea. It is a matter of taste, but scientists now say that drop of milk can completely negate all the benefits tea can have on our health. How is that possible?

While many people drink tea because it is pleasant, soothing drink, tea has many health benefits, which were known to ancient cultures like Chinese and Indians.

Tea has many active ingredients that affect our health. It is particularly rich in antioxidants and vitamins. It is found to improve our immune system, to control blood sugar levels, reduce damage to cells and prevent cardiovascular diseases.

But, if you add milk to your tea, its beneficial effects on your vascular system go away.

In a small study conducted on 16 healthy women, scientists compared the effects of tea on their vascular system, tea with water and tea with milk. They found that tea relaxes blood vessels (improves flow-mediated dilation), but tea with milk does not.

Researchers believe that the most likely explanation is that the caseins, proteins found in milk, form complexes with catechins in tea, its most important flavonoids.  If you do not want to spoil the benefits of your tea, try drinking it with honey and lemon or drink green tea neat, with nothing added"

Edited November 1, 2016 by VinceW

[Dowel Jones]

Back to the beer, warm or not.

[betsyboo]

On 10/31/2016 at 7:27 AM, Beden said:

I was surprised when Stevie and the BF were on a bus going wherever and no security in sight (maybe they were in a different row?). The stalking thing is still ongoing and supposedly security has been beefed up. Struck me as a hole in the plot or continuity.

and it seemed out of place...? They looked all happy cheery and then the ominous music change and they both looked pensive. Was that to portend trouble in paradise?

5 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Hope we see more of the woman who is head of the African bureau; she was totally insubordinate, but Bess gave her a chance to get back over it and apologize, which I think is the way she deals with people who have strong feelings (feelings that she herself can't express, as she has with Jay.) I've seen some very good woman managers do this, and they end up with an utterly loyal staff.

Tonya Pinkins is the BOMB. (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/theater/theater-the-trials-of-tonya-pinkins.html?_r=0)

I laughed out loud at Russell: "What's this about a dissent memo?" Because I have that convo with my boss every fucking day.

I am consistently annoyed by Bess always having her hands in her pants pockets.

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, VinceW said:

In a small study conducted on 16 healthy women, scientists compared the effects of tea on their vascular system, tea with water and tea with milk. They found that tea relaxes blood vessels (improves flow-mediated dilation), but tea with milk does not.

In an extremely small study carried out by me, I rapidly conclude that some scientists have too much time on their hands.

42 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

I am consistently annoyed by Bess always having her hands in her pants pockets.

Maybe she needs to get some mittens.

[VinceW]

Final broadcast primetime live + same-day ratings for Sunday, Oct. 30, 2016:

9 p.m.  Madam Secretary (CBS)     0.8/2     7.91     (Series low for Madam Secretary)
 

Edited November 2, 2016 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

19 minutes ago, VinceW said:

Final broadcast primetime live + same-day ratings for Sunday, Oct. 30, 2016:

9 p.m.  Madam Secretary (CBS)     0.8/2     7.91     (Series low for Madam Secretary)
 

Considering that CBS has replaced their Tuesday lineup with repeats more or less last minute I think they're aware of where these low ratings come from and that they don't necessarily have anything to do with the show. Ratings should go back up next week.

Edited November 2, 2016 by CheshireCat

[VinceW]

55 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Considering that CBS has replaced their Tuesday lineup with repeats more or less last minute I think they're aware of where these low ratings come from and that they don't necessarily have anything to do with the show. Ratings should go back up next week.

NCIS:LA  (CBS) 8.PM. time slot held up just fine against World Series and NFL football. They had no NFL- assist this week.

8 p.m. World Series Game 5 (FOX) (8-11 p.m.)               6.7/19   23.64

           NCIS: Los Angeles (New) (CBS)                            1.2/4      9.74                 

8:30 p.m.  Sunday Night Football (NBC) (8:30-11 p.m.)  6.5/19   18.02

Edited November 2, 2016 by VinceW

[CheshireCat]

32 minutes ago, VinceW said:

NCIS:LA  (CBS) 8.PM. time slot held up just fine against World Series and NFL football. They had no NFL- assist this week.

8 p.m. World Series Game 5 (FOX) (8-11 p.m.)               6.7/19   23.64

           NCIS: Los Angeles (New) (CBS)                            1.2/4      9.74                 

8:30 p.m.  Sunday Night Football (NBC) (8:30-11 p.m.)  6.5/19   18.02

I don't know how the networks looks at the ratings but NCIS: LA was still down significantly from the week(s) before. A 1.7 demo on Sunday the 23rd, and a 1.2 this Sunday. And roughly 2 million viewers less which is the same number as for MSec. (Although, comparing this week's rating to last week's, MSec actually fares better than NCIS: LA because they lost fewer viewers both overall and in demo. They just have lower numbers so losses look worse).

I guess we'll have to wait until next Sunday to know what these ratings really mean but I still like to think that the fact that CBS changed their schedule for today last night means they thought that their Sunday shows suffered due to baseball. After all, Tuesday is their "big night". Wouldn't they have left NCIS on the schedule if they thought NCIS: LA hadn't taken a hit?

Edited November 2, 2016 by CheshireCat

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, Scott said:

 

15 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Glad to see we're focusing on important social issues like how tea is served! ;-)

That said: Daisy was so vociferous about tracking down the leaker, I DID wonder if it were her.....

ETA: I was also wondering about the real life use of a "dissent memo," and found that one has been filed as recently as last June, by diplomats and staffers, about the US policy on Syria. 

Well, and the camera lingered on her for those two extra beats when she first got the memo.  I actually expected to come here and have to post "Geez, show, don't make it so obvious" when they revealed her as the leaker.  Either they're better than I thought (and I'm not as good), or I'll be vindicated in a future episode....

Considering Daisy's job is all about public perception and that she has been realy on top of damage control in the recent past, I doubt she would pull a Comey (Google it, if you don't know).

[thewhiteowl]

I could see Daisy leaking it, she could rationalise it as necessary. However it would be a pretty large betrayal of her current boss and President. Ends justifying the means, perhaps.

[VinceW]

18 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I guess we'll have to wait until next Sunday to know what these ratings really mean but I still like to think that the fact that CBS changed their schedule today for last night means they thought that their Sunday shows suffered due to baseball. After all, Tuesday is their "big night". Wouldn't they have left NCIS on the schedule if they thought NCIS: LA hadn't taken a hit?

I posted the rating numbers for information only; I was not making any statement about what the ratings mean.

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, VinceW said:

I posted the rating numbers for information only; I was not making any statement about what the ratings mean.

I didn't think you were making a statement. I just look at ratings as an indication of how a show is faring, but that's simply the way I do it. *shrug*

[VinceW]

15 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I didn't think you were making a statement. I just look at ratings as an indication of how a show is faring, but that's simply the way I do it. *shrug*

No worries....

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 10/31/2016 at 2:30 AM, bros402 said:

Pretty sure they are still boyfriend-girlfriend

They're engaged.

[CheshireCat]

For someone working in diplomacy, the Assistant Secretary was pretty undiplomatic and seemed to have trouble understanding that diplomacy meant that there were a lot of people you needed to please and keep happy. Yes, they were suggesting that she hadn't been happy with the US' South African policy for a while, unfortunately, since we haven't seen it, I thought that it came across as self-center and ignorant rather than built up frustration. I liked her once she stopped accusing Bess but whenever she did, I just wondered if she thought that a) South Africa was the only country the US had to deal with and b) if she noticed that the administration had a tough election to win and realized that if they lost the election, the US wouldn't be doing anything with South Africa anymore because the other candidates don't seem to care. Not to mention that Bess can only do what the administration green lights. She can give recommendations but there still are limits.

What motive would Daisy have had to leak the memo? I didn't get the vibe at all. I just think they dropped it because, as Bess stated in the S1 finale, a leaker case is very hard to prove.

I loved Russell's "What's this about a dissent memo"? Eh... Bess told ya like the day or so before? While I think it sucks for Bess, especially since she was trying to do the right thing, I kind of liked that Russell's indifference came back to bite him a little.

I also loved how Bess filled in her staff on the non-campaigning in OH. You could tell how she didn't like the idea at all.

I can live with the quiet way that they involved Henry in the episode. And yay, he wasn't able to tell from photos whether the stone statue was an artifact or not, he even said that it was hard to tell!

Loving all the Bess-Henry scenes we're getting! So missed them last season! Although, Henry's come on line was an epic fail!

Stevie and Jareth were a little... "underrepresented". I think if you realize that someone is acting very different in a different environment, you need more than an "England brings out the worst in me". I think they went a little bit too far with the complication because it sounds like something that warrants more time than they're willing to give the couple (which is totally fine with me because I don't want to see more of them). It sounds like Stevie would need to find out who the real Jareth is, the one in England or the one in the US and why he was acting the way he did in England.

The friend of the donor was totally slimey. I actually wondered if he'd go for helping Bess. He didn't seem like the kind of guy who'd do the right thing and I think I would have liked for him to not do the right thing and either have Bess have to find another solution or let Angola be unresolved. It wouldn't have had an effect on the election since no one even took notice of the bombing, so it would have been possible.