Grimm Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[OtterMommy]

Another sneak peek...

 

https://youtu.be/EsXC3CcCqS4

 

Wu left his badge at home....

[chrisvee]

My love for Wu grows every episode...

[OtterMommy]

My love for Wu grows every episode...

 

My hope is that there are many more episodes for your love to grow, but I have a bad feeling.....

[icewolf]

My hope is that there are many more episodes for your love to grow, but I have a bad feeling.....

I think Wu will be safe in the season finale. I mean he JUST escaped certain death after being kidnapped by Jack the Ripper Renard.

[anarchyangel84]

I read an article with Russell Hornsby saying something like he survives the finale but others aren't so lucky. I read a few other things and they point out that Wu hears about Kelly and joins Nick & co. as they go after the Royals & Juliette. Wu even brings a shotgun. I hope that he isn't the one who gets killed- he's been through so much already. (I guess everyone on this show has!)

It would be great if Juliette would kill Adalind and then Rosalee would kill Juliette bloody.... while Nick is killing that Royal Kenneth (I think that's his name?). Sadly, I don't think Adalind will die... But I'm thinking the others will & 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[ShadowFacts]

I'm kind of worried that Rosalee isn't with the group.  Unless she, Bud and Renard? are protecting Adalind from Juliette.  Geez, I really don't want to lose any of the Scoobies.  If I am going to hang in with this train wreck, I can't have any of them dead, dammit.

 

[Prevailing Wind]

I agree - it depends on, if anyone, dies tonight whether I stick with the show or not.

[Free]

I'm kind of worried that Rosalee isn't with the group.  Unless she, Bud and Renard? are protecting Adalind from Juliette.  Geez, I really don't want to lose any of the Scoobies.  If I am going to hang in with this train wreck, I can't have any of them dead, dammit.

 

Agreed, if anything else has to go because of this awful Juliette plot after getting rid of Kelly and the trailer, it'll be even more unbearable.

[OtterMommy]

Another thing to keep in mind that "death" might mean something different on this show.  I mean, technically, they killed Nick off at the end of season 2 and he's still around.  It could be--and this is just speculation on my part--that someone is "killed" and then resurrected through some sort of magic.  There is also a spoiler out there that we are not yet done with the Jack the Ripper spirit, so that could play a part.

 

All I'm saying is that it is possible that a character dying doesn't mean the end of the character/actor.

[Free]

All I'm saying is that it is possible that a character dying doesn't mean the end of the character/actor.

 

I guess, but the problem is that it would drag on this storyline even long into next season.

[merylinkid]

If they really killed Juliette, we would be hearing about all over social media.    The fact that there is radio silence tells me the cast has been sworn to secrecy about what the fact she is not really dead.   Which means they comes back next season.    

 

Also Bitsie Tulloch has been way to excited about how bad ass her character is lately to for her to have been killed off.   The final was written and shot months ago.   She would know the outcome.

[Free]

If they really killed Juliette, we would be hearing about all over social media.    The fact that there is radio silence tells me the cast has been sworn to secrecy about what the fact she is not really dead.   Which means they comes back next season.    

 

Also Bitsie Tulloch has been way to excited about how bad ass her character is lately to for her to have been killed off.   The final was written and shot months ago.   She would know the outcome.

 

I know, I'll just wait for spoilers before watching next season until I get confirmation.

[formerlyfreedom]

An interview with the EPs on TVLine is confirming that she is dead.

[TwistedandBored]

An interview with the EPs on TVLine is confirming that she is dead.

 

Good. 

[OtterMommy]

An interview with the EPs on TVLine is confirming that she is dead.

 

As much as I would like that to be, the EP's (well, one of them) did sounds pretty cagey about it.

 

Anyone who wants to know if she's really dead will be able to find out pretty easily in a few months.  The start shooting in July and, if social networking Bitsie is there, we'll know Juliette will still be around.

[Free]

As much as I would like that to be, the EP's (well, one of them) did sounds pretty cagey about it.

 

Anyone who wants to know if she's really dead will be able to find out pretty easily in a few months.  The start shooting in July and, if social networking Bitsie is there, we'll know Juliette will still be around.

 

Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[icewolf]

Anyone else shocked that they were able to keep the deaths in the season finale a secret?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I didn't know about them. I guess with Grimm being a smaller show, spoilers are much less likely to get out. The Once Upon A Time season finale was spoiled weeks ago, there was a ton of talk over at the previouslytv OUAT spoiler topic, but it has a much bigger fanbase.

[OtterMommy]

Anyone else shocked that they were able to keep the deaths in the season finale a secret?

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I didn't know about them. I guess with Grimm being a smaller show, spoilers are much less likely to get out. The Once Upon A Time season finale was spoiled weeks ago, there was a ton of talk over at the previouslytv OUAT spoiler topic, but it has a much bigger fanbase.

 

Yes and no. 

 

I really thought that some of the more twitter and instagram-happy members of the cast (Tulloch, Roiz, and Coffee,although CC is busy with other things) might inadvertently spoil it, but that didn't happen.  You are right about the viewership, though.  It seems the larger the viewership, the harder to keep things under wraps.

 

But then, as I said before this episode aired, we really can't take what happens on this show at face value.  If you read the interview someone posted a few posts above, the two EP's are being cagey and contradicting each other and basically saying without saying that we can't take anything they say seriously.

 

Also, it really wasn't a surprise to some (me being one of them) that Juliette was "killed" (again, the jury is still out on that). I thought, of all the main characters, she was the most likely.  Really, the only surprise for me tonight was Meisner (and what a happy surprise it was!).  I don't think ANY of the season endings have been shockers.  Well, I was surprised at the end of season 1 when Mama Grimm showed up, but I binge watched that season on Amazon, so I didn't really have time to sit around and think about what might happen.  But, we all knew Nick was going to be a zombie and then we all knew that Nick was going to lose his powers.  This season finale wasn't really any different for me.

[Prevailing Wind]

Well, see...here's the problem...

 

GREENWALT | …It seemed like the right story move and it seemed more interesting to hear this fight off stage as Juliette is creeping downstairs. It seemed creepier for her to hear all of this than for us to try to stage a whole thing.
KOUF | It’s more emotional to see it on her face.

Kouf thinks you can see emotion on BT's face.  Aiyiyi.

[Free]

Well, see...here's the problem...

Kouf thinks you can see emotion on BT's face.  Aiyiyi.

 

XD.

 

 

I don't think ANY of the season endings have been shockers.

 

Sad but true, Grimm has been stuck in a rut season after season and had gone nowhere.

[Lii]

An interview with the EPs on TVLine is confirming that she is dead.

LOL at the comments section being mainly people calling the EPs out for sounding like aholes in this interview! Keep it up guys, you probably still have some viewers left you can drive off between now and October if you work really, REALLY hard!

[Free]

LOL at the comments section being mainly people calling the EPs out for sounding like aholes in this interview! Keep it up guys, you probably still have some viewers left you can drive off between now and October if you work really, REALLY hard!

 

Their writing is already doing just that.

[merylinkid]

I just remember when they killed off Will Gardner on the Good Wife.   The next day was full of headlines "Good Wife Shocker" etc about a major character being killed.    There has been nothing like that for Grimm.   Now maybe the ratings of this show don't rate headlines the next day, but surely there would be something somewhere if she were really most sincerely dead.    

[OtterMommy]

I just remember when they killed off Will Gardner on the Good Wife.   The next day was full of headlines "Good Wife Shocker" etc about a major character being killed.    There has been nothing like that for Grimm.   Now maybe the ratings of this show don't rate headlines the next day, but surely there would be something somewhere if she were really most sincerely dead.    

 

I would like Juliette to be dead, I think it really is the only way for the show to grow.  But, I agree...I'm sure she'll be back next season.  Honestly, if they wanted to kill her, they would have given Trubel her machete instead of her cross bow.  Plus, BT has said she'll be back in Portland in a few months and, as nice a city as this is, actors of that caliber aren't here unless they have to be.

[Free]

I just remember when they killed off Will Gardner on the Good Wife.   The next day was full of headlines "Good Wife Shocker" etc about a major character being killed.    There has been nothing like that for Grimm.   Now maybe the ratings of this show don't rate headlines the next day, but surely there would be something somewhere if she were really most sincerely dead.    

 

I'm expecting a cop out so I'll just the series here.  I remember TGW's death, but that was a better written series though.

[SnarkyTart]

What's really pissing me off is that I want to celebrate the death of Juliette and the possibility of redemption for the show.  But I can't because we don't know if she's dead dead.

 

Dead Juliette, the return of Nick as a Grimm to be reckoned with, the winding down of the stupid Royal family, Truble as a recurring character again, it's so much of what I wanted.  I should be a happy fan.  But now I can't be happy because stupid Juliette is probably still alive. 

 

I'll keep checking back for spoiler confirmation, but if Juliette isn't really truly dead, I'm out.

[kathyk24]

I think Juliette is really dead if she isn't Renard will kill her for helping to kidnap his daughter. The part of the writers interview that angered me was when they said Nick has to support Adalind's baby. No he doesn't since she raped him. I'd like him to convince her to give the baby up for adoption since the Royals could use this baby to get to Diana

[icewolf]

Could it be that Bitsie Tulloch wants off the show to pursue a movie career? She probably realizes her role as Juliette is a waste of time for her, not to mention playing a very unpopular role, and she wants to move on. Sure, it is nice that her boyfriend is also on the same show with her, but the show isn't going to last forever. Better to cut her loses now and try to further her career.

Something like that happened with Vampire Diaries this year, with the lead actress decided to quit to pursue a movie career.

The whole sloppily handled HenxenJuliette arc could have been one last hooray for the Juliette character from the writers before letting her go. Most shows tend to give a character a ton of focus before killing them off.

[Free]

I think Juliette is really dead if she isn't Renard will kill her for helping to kidnap his daughter. The part of the writers interview that angered me was when they said Nick has to support Adalind's baby. No he doesn't since she raped him. I'd like him to convince her to give the baby up for adoption since the Royals could use this baby to get to Diana

 

Yeah, he doesn't have to, the writers just want to milk another storyline out of it.

[merylinkid]

Actually, even children of rape have to be supported.    Where I practice, the rapist has visitation rights to the children.   Think about that for a minute.   So even though Nick didn't willing conceive the child, he is still financially responsible for it.   Child support is for the support of the child.    Who had no say in how he/she was conceived.

[Free]

Actually, even children of rape have to be supported.    Where I practice, the rapist has visitation rights to the children.   Think about that for a minute.   So even though Nick didn't willing conceive the child, he is still financially responsible for it.   Child support is for the support of the child.    Who had no say in how he/she was conceived.

 

I'm talking about the storyline itself, the writers wanted to milk another baby plot out of the show unfortunately.

[OtterMommy]

Actually, even children of rape have to be supported.    Where I practice, the rapist has visitation rights to the children.   Think about that for a minute.   So even though Nick didn't willing conceive the child, he is still financially responsible for it.   Child support is for the support of the child.    Who had no say in how he/she was conceived.

 

Just curious....if a rapist has visitation, do they also have to pay child support?  (I'm all for them paying child support, not for visitation.  That's just horrible.)

 

And I wonder if, at some point in early season 5, Nick will ask for a paternity test?  I mean, Adalind has definitely shows a promiscuous streak.  Heck, we still don't know for sure who Diana's father is!  There were a lot of complaints about this story line (pretty much every comment on the FB threads were negative.  To contrast, HexenJuliette was decidedly mixed until she went pyro) and I can see the writers trying to get themselves out of trouble by all of sudden remembering that Adalind slept with Renard a day before Nick and, look, guess who's the father!

[merylinkid]

Well it's a little hard to pay child support from jail, but yes, child support is theoretically ordered.   

 

The TVLine article definitely stated it was Chavez on the phone with Theresa so no Kelly suddenly coming back.  Although, I do have to wonder if she is really truly dead too.   I want to hear from the Lollipop Guild here.

Edited May 17, 2015 by merylinkid

[TVSpectator]

Actually, even children of rape have to be supported.    Where I practice, the rapist has visitation rights to the children.   Think about that for a minute.   So even though Nick didn't willing conceive the child, he is still financially responsible for it.   Child support is for the support of the child.    Who had no say in how he/she was conceived.

 

I would imagine that it would be hard for Nick and Adalind  to explain their actions in court:

 

Nick's Lawyer: Your honor, you see, my client claims that Ms.Schade took a magic potion that disguised herself as his ex-girlfriend, Juliette Silverton, and I slept with her under the false pretense that I was making love to Ms. Sliverton. 

Adalind: It's true your honor. You see your honor, I am a descendant of a line of magical people known as "Hexenbiests" while Nick is a descent of another line of magical people, known as "Grimms". To make a long story short your honor, we do not get along and as an act of revenge, for an unrelated matter, I wanted to take his Grimm powers away. So I was able to find my deceased mother's spellbook and created a magic potion that disguised me as Ms. Silverton. After I slept with him, Mr. Burkhardt immediately lost his Gimm powers, but he was able to gain them back through the help of another Hexenbiest.

Judge: What does the paternity test say?

Nick's Lawyer: We are still awaiting the results, your honor.

Judge: Till then I do not want to hear any more fairy tales about magic potions or magical peoples. I should through all of you into competent court and order a court-mandated psychological evaluation for Mr. Burkhardt and Ms. Schade, to see if the two of you are sane enough to  even raise a child. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by TVSpectator

[merylinkid]

Except they are telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.   (You don't say so help me god anymore).   Which makes this so darn funny.   

[Shadda2]

 

To make a long story short your honor, we do not get along and as an act of revenge, for an unrelated matter, I wanted to take his Grimm powers away.

But it's not an unrelated matter.  It was not only to get her daughter back, the daughter he kidnapped from her, but also for taking her Hexenbiest powers away from her.  Kind of you took from me, now I'll take from you, quid pro quo if you will.  I don't condone but I do remember these are characters and this is not real life. 

[Happy Harpy]

As much as I would like that to be, the EP's (well, one of them) did sounds pretty cagey about it.

I watched the finale because I clicked on the TV Line article. I certainly won't watch the season premiere or anything before I'm certain that Juliette is truly dead and gone (and again, no doppelganger).

 

I wouldn't want to have to deal with a fandom, with so many contradictory wishes coming from dedicated and passionate people, but therefore difficult people. It must be exhausting. I don't want showrunners to blindly follow some volatile fandom approval either.

But there are moments when you have to be serious, and take the temperature of your viewership a tad little bit, especially when a storyline seems so universally disliked (outside from here, I just check very mainstream TV Line and Spoiler TV and I've yet to see people applauding it). Maybe the TV line journalist failed to faithfully report the tone of the interview, but I failed to see any real indication that they were joking about Juliette/Bitsie T. being gone. 

I'm all the more disappointed because D.Greenwalt was a writer I respected. IIRC, Dame Agatha Christie said the audience didn't mind being mystified...being played for a fool is a whole other business imo.

 

And just in case, because some nutcases confuse actress and character: I like Bitsie T, and even though I don't think she's good as Juliette, I would watch another show she's in, ready to like her character. And I think she and DG make a handsome couple, although now that I know that they date, I can't help but think that Friends was right about onscreen/onstage chemistry ;)

 

As for the other tidbit, as a possibly returning viewer I don't know how I feel about a possible Nick/Adalind pairing. They always had chemistry imo, but romantic as in "in love"? Not sure. Lust, I could buy before the "unfortunate conception", I could buy them as co-parents, Per the article, it seems something they're going to explore. Maybe it means that Juliette is really gone, then.

[TVSpectator]

But it's not an unrelated matter.  It was not only to get her daughter back, the daughter he kidnapped from her, but also for taking her Hexenbiest powers away from her.  Kind of you took from me, now I'll take from you, quid pro quo if you will.  I don't condone but I do remember these are characters and this is not real life. 

 

I am just going to say, "it's a long story"

[Free]

 

I certainly won't watch the season premiere or anything before I'm certain that Juliette is truly dead and gone (and again, no doppelganger).

 

Same here, I'm not waiting months for a bs cop out and more of the same awful drama.

[Darklazr]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  I see a tweet and picture of Bitsie Tulloch on the official NBC Grimm twitter page.  Damn.  I really hope Juliette is dead, dead, because between this sickening creature and Trubel, I may have to do housekeeping chores instead of watching the show.

[Free]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  I see a tweet and picture of Bitsie Tulloch on the official NBC Grimm twitter page.  Damn.  I really hope Juliette is dead, dead, because between this sickening creature and Trubel, I may have to do housekeeping chores instead of watching the show.

 

That's all I needed to know to drop it completely, I'm not here for this awful storyline to be dragged any further.

[WearyTraveler]

Maybe they're just mourning the character, or trying to stir up some shit.  Start a hashtag #SheBetterBeDead and maybe that'll get their attention

[Morrigan2575]

Am I supposed to buy that these wounds are a fake death?  The chest wound seems really close to the heart and the other bolt went right through her neck.

 

https://twitter.com/BitsieTulloch/status/604016354564263936

 

Edited June 1, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[caseylane]

But she's the most special hexenbiest in the world. Those arrows should be silver tipped and have holy water filling the shaft's center. I hope they were good enough to do the job but the longer it goes on the more I'm afraid she's survived.

[Prevailing Wind]

The arrows look like they had two different trajectories.  Was there another shooter behind the grassy knoll?

[TVSpectator]

Am I supposed to buy that these wounds are a fake death?  The chest wound seems really close to the heart and the other bolt went right through her neck.

 

https://twitter.com/BitsieTulloch/status/604016354564263936

 

 

It's TV, and other characters, from other shows, have come back from worst. Although, I do like seeing those arrows in Juliette.

[OtterMommy]

Here's another thing to consider:

 

I recently rewatched s2ep1.  In that (well, in s1ep22), Nick brings his trust cross bow over to shoot the Japanese guy with a truth serum to find out who killed his parents.  Of course, the evening doesn't go down as he had planned and his long-dead mom shows up (because, let us not forget, that the concept of being dead and coming back to life has been a part of every season end of this show....).  In the aftermath, she finds the cross bow and says to Nick, "So, you didn't want to kill him either."  There is also a mention a few episodes earlier about the crossbow being used to slow Wesen down, not to kill them.  And, what did Trubel use on Juliette?

 

I mean, I don't know...it looks like Juliette is dead, but you just can't tell with this show.  I wish Trubel had used her machete instead of the cross bow.

[ShadowFacts]

Here's another thing to consider:

 

I recently rewatched s2ep1.  In that (well, in s1ep22), Nick brings his trust cross bow over to shoot the Japanese guy with a truth serum to find out who killed his parents.  Of course, the evening doesn't go down as he had planned and his long-dead mom shows up (because, let us not forget, that the concept of being dead and coming back to life has been a part of every season end of this show....).  In the aftermath, she finds the cross bow and says to Nick, "So, you didn't want to kill him either."  There is also a mention a few episodes earlier about the crossbow being used to slow Wesen down, not to kill them.  And, what did Trubel use on Juliette?

 

I mean, I don't know...it looks like Juliette is dead, but you just can't tell with this show.  I wish Trubel had used her machete instead of the cross bow.

 

Wow, great find OtterMommy.  Does this mean that a) Theresa still has a lot to learn about Grimm weaponry, or b) she deliberately didn't take a lethal weapon along even though Nick expressly answered the question of what to do with Juliette with "kill her"? 

[OtterMommy]

Wow, great find OtterMommy.  Does this mean that a) Theresa still has a lot to learn about Grimm weaponry, or b) she deliberately didn't take a lethal weapon along even though Nick expressly answered the question of what to do with Juliette with "kill her"? 

 

 

Well, on the "up" side...this show is not known for its continuity.  Maybe the writers just said "hey, a cross bow!  Let's use it!" and Juliette really is dead.

 

But, I am a betting person--in this case at least--and have a bet with my husband that Juliette is alive.  Sigh.

[Morrigan2575]

The arrows look like they had two different trajectories. Was there another shooter behind the grassy knoll?

Based on this video, Trubel hits Juliette in the chest with the first bolt. Juliette starts to bend over/fold in on herself when Trubel releases the second bolt and hits Juliette in the neck. Looks realistic enough to me but, I'm no expert.

http://youtu.be/tnihWo4JNEQ

After watching that video I don't think Trubel simply drugged Juliette or wasn't trying to kill her. Trubel looks sad and guilty at one point. She seemed to go from it had to be done to I'm so ashamed of what I did (after seeing Nick's grief).

I know it's TV and I know anything can happen and the attitude from the people involved seems off for having just killed a major character/series regular. However, that scene played liked a true death, not a gotcha/cliffhanger "death" like Renard last season. This ending felt like a wrap up of Juliette's story (as crappy as it was).

But, I guess only time will tell.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Morrigan2575