S04.E01: The Ghost

[Terrafamilia]

Sorry, May, but you and the gang aren't the center of the universe anymore. Deal with it.

Congratulations, Fitz, you've invented the matrix. No way that could go wrong.

Congratulations, Radcliffe, you've invented robot doubles. I've seen enough tv shows and movies like Metropolis and The Stepford Wives or several episodes of The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman to to know that doesn't have a downside.

So they put out an APB on an Asian woman? I know Chloe Bennet's father is Chinese, and Daisy's mother was Asian, but seriously, out of 100 people on the street who didn't already know that how many would have pegged her as Asian?

I did like that Fitz's accent became more pronounced when he was interacting with Radcliffe.

[teenj12]

•  Daisy being a badass superhero in the cold opening was awesome. 
• Ghost Rider's arrival with the whole car-flip was cool. That blood splatter was wicked.
• It's interesting to see that this new director has purposely split up the main team, but I like that Simmons is earning his trust to keep her and the rest of the crew informed behind closed doors. 
• I really liked seeing Yo-Yo again. She seems a lot more comfortable with her English, which shows in her steamy interaction with Mac. Can't wait to see things between the two blossom some more. I also liked seeing Yo-Yo assist Daisy, who is literally breaking her bones because she's out there saving people. 
• The Quake vs. Ghost Rider battle was awesome. Robbie's transformation was LIT. Gabriel Luna really sold it on the face mannerisms. Of course, Daisy doesn't deserve to die - which is why he stopped engaging her.
• The end scene with Robbie and his brother was really sweet. I could tell even Daisy was confused by that humanized side of him. The parallels between Daisy and Robbie are quite heavy as well. I really think they have amazing potential in terms of being allies. I really think they would understand one another if they really sat and talked, which I think is totally coming. They definitely have a Daredevil vs. Punisher vibe, and I can't wait to see the continued exploration of their rivalry.
• The AIDA plot was super-creepy, but I am curious in how it will turn out. 

[kieyra]

Ok, so this really is the Emo Daisy show now. 

1 hour ago, Terrafamilia said:

So they put out an APB on an Asian woman? I know Chloe Bennet's father is Chinese, and Daisy's mother was Asian, but seriously, out of 100 people on the street who didn't already know that how many would have pegged her as Asian?

Yeah, I'm finding the sudden playing of the diversity card there a little disingenuous and cynical on the showrunners' part. You don't wait till season four of a show to throw your weight behind a "POC lead" message. The time to do that was day one.

I think I'm out. I miss Bobbi and Hunter too much, have zero interest in bots, and I'm not buying what they're selling with Daisy. Ah well, back to the CW for my genre shows, I guess. 

[teenj12]

13 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Ok, so this really is the Emo Daisy show now. 

Yeah, I'm finding the sudden playing of the diversity card there a little disingenuous and cynical on the showrunners' part. You don't wait till season four of a show to throw your weight behind a "POC lead" message. The time to do that was day one.

 I don't get the problem??? She's Asian, and that has been told/shown to us since early S1. The line wasn't at all out of place.

Edited September 23, 2016 by teenj12

[kitlee625]

3 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

 

It's not a grudge, it's just poorly written.  If you enjoy it, I'm happy for you as that enhances your enjoyment of the show.  That's terrific.  But for a lot of us, there's been way too much "tell" and too little "show" when it comes to Daisy.  And Coulson's relationship with her has always felt weird because of the way he favors her above everyone else on the team.  With Giles/Buffy it made sense, because he was a Watcher and Buffy was the Slayer he was sent to guide.  It made narrative sense that they would form a unique parental bond.  But the show has never bothered to show us why Coulson has developed a much tighter bond with Daisy, than say Simmons, and so it becomes noticeable (and irritating) when he's 10x as dedicated to saving her or getting her back than he was when Simmons vanished a season ago.

The other thing is that with Buffy and Giles there were periods of friction between the two that also made sense. However, that very rarely happens with Daisy and Coulson, or when it does, it is quickly erased after an episode or two when Coulson hugs her and tells her that she's his special girl. I hope that her being away from SHIELD means that the writers will downplay this and let her stand on her own more, but I'm a little skeptical.

Edited September 23, 2016 by kitlee625

[teenj12]

I enjoy Coulson and Daisy's relationship. Daisy changed Coulson for the better, while Coulson is super supportive  to Daisy, more so than any of her goddamn love interests. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, teenj12 said:

 I don't get the problem??? She's Asian, and that has been told/shown to us since early S1. The line wasn't at all out of place.

The problem is while we know that she is Asian for an all points bulletin of a person only known as Quake, unless Big SHIELD 2.0 outed her, we don't see her as anymore Asian then we saw Dean Cain as boy from Kansas Clark Kent on Lois and Clark.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Agents Of SHIELD Ghost Rides The Whip

There are actual comic book characters within this show now. About time, too.

[tennisgurl]

Not a bad start to the new season, although, as usual, it has its flaws. 

I really like Daisy, I do, but dear God girl what have you got on your face?!?! I mean, I struggle with my liquid eyeliner too, but I usually take it off if I apply too much. I think the problem people have with Daisy (not everyone, but its a vibe I've gotten) is not so much her as a character, but her place in the show, where she always seems to be the focus of whatever everyone is doing, and she always seems to be everyone's priority. 

I really like the addition of Ghost Rider, and I am excited that the MCU is using magic and more supernatural elements. To me, the argument that people make that there should not be magic on the MCU and it should just focus on science fiction stuff, because magic makes it too "weird" or something just makes no sense to me. How is someone having magic powers any more ridiculous than a guy turning into a giant rage monster because of radiation, or the Nordic gods being ancient aliens, who then show up to attack NYC? How is magic what kills your suspension of disbelief? And when people say that "well we have never seen magic before" just reminds me of that scene in Jessica Jones where one of the main characters is arguing with a guy about the possibility of the existence of a guy who can control peoples minds. He says "that ridiculous!" and she says "yeah, well, we thought aliens were ridiculous until they attacked and screwed up the property values of New York!" which is basically how I see magic in the MCU. Its open season on anything. 

Oh Fitz. I mean, I do at least get why he is keeping this a secret more than a lot of these plots, but its still stupid, a waste of time, and its just so predictable. We all know Simmons will find out, lets just get there quickly. However, I do like the stuff with Fitz and Radcliffe, and John Hannah is always welcome. I loved just how think Fitzs accent got when he was talking to him. That was probably the most Scottish scene I have seen on American TV in quote some time!

[teenj12]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

I really like the addition of Ghost Rider, and I am excited that the MCU is using magic and more supernatural elements. To me, the argument that people make that there should not be magic on the MCU and it should just focus on science fiction stuff, because magic makes it too "weird" or something just makes no sense to me. How is someone having magic powers any more ridiculous than a guy turning into a giant rage monster because of radiation, or the Nordic gods being ancient aliens, who then show up to attack NYC? How is magic what kills your suspension of disbelief? And when people say that "well we have never seen magic before" just reminds me of that scene in Jessica Jones where one of the main characters is arguing with a guy about the possibility of the existence of a guy who can control peoples minds. He says "that ridiculous!" and she says "yeah, well, we thought aliens were ridiculous until they attacked and screwed up the property values of New York!" which is basically how I see magic in the MCU. Its open season on anything. 

 

Ughh this. Comic show fans are ridiculous. Especially the Marvel/Netflix-crowd. "Oh noes, Daredevil has a costume now! The show is no longer realistic and gritty!" (eyeroll).

Edited September 24, 2016 by teenj12

[TVSpectator]

5 hours ago, teenj12 said:

Ughh this. Comic show fans are ridiculous. Especially the Marvel/Netflix-crowd. "Oh noes, Daredevil has a costume now! The show is no longer realistic and gritty!" (eyeroll).

 

I really don't think that mentality comes from actual comic book fans but fans of the movies/TV show that never read the comic books before watching. Also, part of it does come from what Thor said in the first Thor movie:

 

^^^ IMO, this scene kind of ruined the whole idea of magic being introduced into the MCU for the non-comic book readers because they started to believe it. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by TVSpectator

[SocaShoe]

Yeah, the magic is really just science premise is something that we can blame on the folks behind the MCU and Thor. I don't mind the inclusion of Ghost Rider as a start of exploring moe mystical stories. I think it will take a couple of episodes to find the right balance in the storytelling though. I hope they get the hang of it quickly.

[TVSpectator]

15 hours ago, SocaShoe said:

Yeah, the magic is really just science premise is something that we can blame on the folks behind the MCU and Thor. I don't mind the inclusion of Ghost Rider as a start of exploring moe mystical stories. I think it will take a couple of episodes to find the right balance in the storytelling though. I hope they get the hang of it quickly.

 

So, the thing that is going around Reddit is that AoS is going to do a major tie-in with Dr. Strange and that some are speculating that Mephisto, the demon himself, will make some kind of appearance on this show and I realized if they do it then they are surely going to contradict themselves on who is really the devil (and apparently they mentioned that Hive was the supposed devil figure for this universe's Earth. But if Mephisto is going to show up then they just kind of totally backtracked themselves into a retcon- for their own canon). The problem is that these writers seem to write a lot of finite stories (like that Hive has to be the devil, nothing less. Or they write Bobbi and Hunter off in a ridiculous way without leaving a backdoor for them to return to the show (without going behind on what they told us can't happen, ever), or they will just kill off so many characters....) and this is part of it. Some of this is probably due to the fact that they were probably still going off of the idea, "well, magic is just really advanced technology and Asgardians are just aliens and not gods..." mentality but I guess we will wait and see what they do with what they created (and they are probably going to do a retcon. Like how they put SHIELD back into the public's eye, even when President Ellis, himself said that the public wasn't ready for that...).

[Jack Kerouac]

On 22/09/2016 at 0:46 AM, xqueenfrostine said:

 

I usually see it as more Crazy/Mean/Troubled/Evil than as BADASS.  If a character goes over to the dark side, or goes through a fit of depression/self loathing, the makeup artists starts applying triple the normal amount of eye liner.   As a woman who quite likes her makeup (though not nearly as much as Daisy is wearing!) I really really really hate this trope.  It makes no sense.  There's no correlation between one's moral character and their taste in makeup, and depression usually causes people to spend less time carefully grooming themselves, not more.  

What!?! I've been living under the delusion that a woman's eye makeup reveals her innermost character all this time and it's not true? Why have you lied to me, television!?

[benteen]

I blame the studioheads for embracing the whole "magic is just really advanced science" bullshit.  It's there lack of imagination more than anything that has led to this mindset.

[teenj12]

16 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

So, the thing that is going around Reddit is that AoS is going to do a major tie-in with Dr. Strange and that some are speculating that Mephisto, the demon himself, will make some kind of appearance on this show and I realized if they do it then they are surely going to contradict themselves on who is really the devil (and apparently they mentioned that Hive was the supposed devil figure for this universe's Earth. But if Mephisto is going to show up then they just kind of totally backtracked themselves into a retcon- for their own canon). The problem is that these writers seem to write a lot of finite stories (like that Hive has to be the devil, nothing less. Or they write Bobbi and Hunter off in a ridiculous way without leaving a backdoor for them to return to the show (without going behind on what they told us can't happen, ever), or they will just kill off so many characters....) and this is part of it. Some of this is probably due to the fact that they were probably still going off of the idea, "well, magic is just really advanced technology and Asgardians are just aliens and not gods..." mentality but I guess we will wait and see what they do with what they created (and they are probably going to do a retcon. Like how they put SHIELD back into the public's eye, even when President Ellis, himself said that the public wasn't ready for that...).

I think their references to Hive as the 'devil' in S3 were more figurative than literal, so there wouldn't really be a contradiction.

[TVSpectator]

4 hours ago, teenj12 said:

I think their references to Hive as the 'devil' in S3 were more figurative than literal, so there wouldn't really be a contradiction.

No, I remember it being more literal interpretation of the devil (it was supposed to be that he was the one who inspired the idea of the devil). 

[Terrafamilia]

You just chalk it up to being one character's theory. Hive was off-planet for so long that there is plenty of history in which various other devil inspirations could develop and feed into the figure.

[TVSpectator]

13 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

You just chalk it up to being one character's theory. Hive was off-planet for so long that there is plenty of history in which various other devil inspirations could develop and feed into the figure.

 

 

Coulson says this like it's a fact and he even says that this is a world wide thing and not just to the Inhumans after he interrogates Malick. 

Edited September 27, 2016 by TVSpectator

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 9/21/2016 at 8:48 AM, TVSpectator said:

I have some mix feelings about this episode and show. First  I did like how they never once hinted that Ghost Rider nor the Lady Ghost (and I want this to be her name, even if they are going to name the character later on) were Inhumans and/or aliens. Sure that can literally all change by next episode, with just one line of dialogue, but at least they are trying to do a "Dr. Strange" theme season and it's not bad. My only criticism is that both the Lady Ghost and the Chinese Triad (or at least what I thought they were supposed to be), and everything Ghost Rider seems so out of place for this show (and of course everything is always about Daisy). 

 

Second the stuff that I didn't like:

I didn't like how Fitz decided to keep Aida from Simmons (or that they are living together. It's just I don't buy them as a couple so them living together seems so off and not right to me). IMO, keeping Aida from Simmons seems like a total dick movie, on Fitz's part (and it seems that Aida was some kind of violation on his parole or whatever happened to him within the last six months), and I do kind of hope that Fitz does get some kind of major flack for it once Simmons finds out. IMO, Fitz has to learn that his "protecting" and not telling Simmons is going to be problematic (and he did the same thing once Skye/Daisy got her powers as well) even if he wanted to perfect it and protect Dr. Radcliff (IMO, there has to be some kind of consequences to his actions. He just can't go around and not tell someone that his buddy has just violated his parole). Also, I didn't like seeing all of these major changes that happened off screen, within this supposed six-month time gap. SHIELD is literally, not only part of the government but also the public knows that it's been brought back? Coulson isn't the director and appears to now lives, in a storage closet playing backgammon with literally anyone who will give him the time of day? The new security colors are stupid (I am just saying this now and I am sure by the end of this season this will be gone). Daisy is running away from SHIELD- WHY? Why did she leave and why is SHIELD hunting her down? Why is she hunting down the Watchdogs where you still have major organizations like A.I.M.? What did the Watchdogs have to do with Lincoln's death and why didn't no one else heard about the "Ghost Rider" until like just now? Why did Simmons get promoted over Fitz as the new science director and why are the writers trying to write her as some kind of stiff, bureaucratic, unbending jerk? Even if all she is doing is putting up a facade for the new people (and for the new director) and trying to "protect" her old friends it still is, IMO, a stupid storyline. Also, May being possess by the Lady Ghost. 

The show justified keeping Simmons out of the Aida loop on sufficiently on several grounds for my money.

1. Post-Ultron, the world's not too psyched about artificial intelligence. (Presumably Tony Stark and Vision get a pass somehow). 

2. Radcliffe (not Fitz) is a criminal and would get in trouble if it was found out that he was messing with AI in any way, shape or form.

3. Because of her position, Jemma is subject to regular lie detector tests and other scrutiny, so she can't be brought into the circle of trust.

4. Fitz is very curious about the technological advancement Aida represents.

5. Fitz is very curious about the sexy sexy sexy time advancement Aida represents. (Chekhov's fembot -- if you show an anatomatically correct, hot female-simulating robot in the first act, she's got to go off by the third.)

SHIELD is hunting Daisy down because she's an incredibly powerful former agent who has gone rogue and as the story explicitly said, has blown up bridges and robbed banks and done other criminal acts trying to stop the Watchdogs from hunting down Inhumans.

As to why Daisy left SHIELD, I'm sure we'll find out more details in time, but it sounds like the rise of the new director led to tighter restrictions, more red tape, etc. That has never been Daisy's thing. I'd also speculate that we're supposed to buy that losing Lincoln meant something to her.

As to Ghost Rider, clearly some people had heard about him. There was a big ass mural of him, for example. And there were news stories about some of the acts that he did that Daisy managed to pull together after a while. But not everything can instantly be on SHIELD's radar. Plus, it looks like he kills a lot of the people he confronts.

ETA: In terms of Daisy hunting down the Watchdogs rather than someone else, I'm not sure that at this point in the Marvel Universe there are too many other groups. Hydra is destroyed (supposedly...cut off one limb, etc. But as of last season of the show, it seemed that SHIELD had taken them out). AIM was, from all appearances, taken down in Iron Man 3. There are the threats from the Netflix Marvel shows, but I don't see them trying to cross them over. But anyway, I could see Daisy wanting to focus on the Watchdogs, because they represent a threat to her fellow Inhumans, and at the same time SHIELD not really caring all that much, since, after all, they are just ordinary humans who have formed a militia.

In the dark, who is going to be more likely to be promoted: Jemma, who's cute as all get out, hard-working, social, and is motivated to be move up the ladder by the agenda to protect the team that she talked about etc., or Fitz, who is always a little awkward, recently got over brain damage and probably not interested in being in that position because he's not into the politics?

On 9/21/2016 at 1:11 PM, benteen said:

A character hiding their illness from their friend and another character hiding his activities (in this case AIDA) from his lover are two of worst tropes on television and two I'd like to see gotten rid of.  So naturally, Agents of Shield decides to use BOTH of them this season.

They've probably done one or the other in most seasons, except not always "lover."

Off the top: 
Ward hid his HYDRA activities from the team and his then-lover, May.

Back when she was Skye, Daisy hid her connection with her ex lover. 

Coulson hid his crazy-alien compulsions from the team.

Daisy hid her early Inhuman nature/sickness from most of the team.

Fitz hid his working in secret with Daisy from Simmons.

Andrew hid his nature as Lash from May, and I think for a while May hid it from the rest of the team.

Coulson and Rosilyn hid what they were doing from each other. 

When Fitz was suffering brain damage, he concealed that he was hallucinating Jemma.

When Jemma was suffering from PTSD from being on Blue Planet, she downplayed that from Fitz and the rest of the team.

To a certain extent, it is probably to be expected since we're talking about spies who don't necessarily trust or have healthy relationships. But it does get old.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[hello]

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

on Blue Planet

Surely it was called "Blupiter"..?

[Terrafamilia]

21 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Coulson says this like it's a fact and he even says that this is a world wide thing and not just to the Inhumans after he interrogates Malick. 

Malick was part of a Hive worshiping cult. It would not be out of character for them to cherry-pick and spin the evidence to play up Hive's, and as a consequence their own, importance.

[AKA...CJ86]

A little late to the party...finally saw the episode.

Love...love...love the look of Ghost Rider.  Not familiar with this particular Rider but I think the character was introduced well.

Daisy...didn't love her/hate her past seasons, but not liking the direction they've taken her in.

...and love seeing Yo-Yo!

[blueray]

I finally got around to seeing this episode. I'm not sure how I feel about the direction they are taking Daisy. I wish that we got to know more of why she left shield in the first place, this may be revealed later hopefully.

I loved the scenes with Mac and Coulson as a team and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it. Coulson is better as an agent then the director. And as usual his hand can do cool things.

I actually get why Fitz chose not to tell Simmons about Aida because she would either have to report it or would likely get caught for knowing something. That being said, I was not convinced that she or something like her would not be a weapon (but that was probably the point).

Lastly, May should tell Coulson that she was infected by that stuff as well and saw his face change.

[Kel Varnsen]

On ‎2016‎-‎09‎-‎21 at 8:07 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

It will never not be creepy for a male scientist to build a naked, very attractive female robot. 
How does such a 'scientist' decide how anatomically correct to make such models? And why the perfect makeup and hair? Is the doctor also a great makeup artist? 

Seriously every time that guy or the robot shows up I am going to think Kreigerbot and assume that guy is a giant pervert (who may be a Hitler clone)

As far as Daisy goes why does she fight people and to hand when her powers allow her to hit people without getting close to them?

[Raja]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Seriously every time that guy or the robot shows up I am going to think Kreigerbot and assume that guy is a giant pervert (who may be a Hitler clone)

As far as Daisy goeso why does she fight people and to hand when her powers allow her to hit people without getting close to them?

The  entire proposed purpose for the  human form robot is to fool people. The first consumer user will be fooling those looking for sex, of that I have little doubt.

 

As for Daisy they massively de-powered her by giving her the Achilles Heel when not her protective  wrist bands provided by Sokovian Accords sanctioning bodies like SHIELD, she can't just overpower any situation like Superman should be able to do. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by Raja

[romantic idiot]

Plus every use of her powers breaks her wrists so she can't use it all the time. 

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Plus every use of her powers breaks her wrists so she can't use it all the time. 

I get that but it would seem like using them to fight someone from a distance would be less risky to her health than fist fighting someone who could potentially be super strong. 

As far as the accords go why can't yo-yo use her powers if she is working for a government  agency like SHIELD?

[Raja]

25 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 

As far as the accords go why can't yo-yo use her powers if she is working for a government  agency like SHIELD?

It does seem like she is like a soldier and requires orders from command before using her weapon, and not like a cop who goes around armed and reacts to a danger to the community on his own accord. Otherwise Yo-Yo would be considered a vigilante like Quake.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

It does seem like she is like a soldier and requires orders from command before using her weapon, and not like a cop who goes around armed and reacts to a danger to the community on his own accord. Otherwise Yo-Yo would be considered a vigilante like Quake.

But didn't she ask Mac if she could help them in LA which is when he told her she signed the accords. Which makes me wonder when she is allowed to use her powers legally.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But didn't she ask Mac if she could help them in LA which is when he told her she signed the accords. Which makes me wonder when she is allowed to use her powers legally.

They have been calling Yo-Yo a SHIELD asset, sort of like when as a Secret Warrior stand by until activated is my take. But unlike  before as a Secret Warrior  until she is called up she is not allowed to fight what she see's as a corrupt Colombian government on her own.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Raja

[TVSpectator]

16 hours ago, Raja said:

The  entire proposed purpose for the  human form robot is to fool people. The first consumer user will be fooling those looking for sex, of that I have little doubt.

 

As for Daisy they massively de-powered her by giving her the Achilles Heel when not her protective  wrist bands provided by Sokovian Accords sanctioning bodies like SHIELD, she can't just overpower any situation like Superman should be able to do. 

 

Okay, so my question is what happen to the arm braces that Simmon design, specially made for Skye-Daisy way back in Season 2, and why didn't Daisy take them with her when she left SHIELD? Are they stored in a special locked up box/drawer that is only open when Daisy went on missions? I mean that would be nice to know what happen to them and why Daisy isn't wearing them and/or didn't take them with her when she decided to just up and leave SHIELD. 

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

They have been calling Yo-Yo a SHIELD asset, sort of like when as a Secret Warrior stand by until activated is my take. But unlike  before as a Secret Warrior  until she is called up she is not allowed to fight what she see's as a corrupt Colombian government on her own.

So why wouldn't helping SHIELD agents Mac and Coulson on an official mission in LA be considered a call-up? Because Mac seemed to say that because of the accords she wasn't allowed to help them, which is why I was confused.

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So why wouldn't helping SHIELD agents Mac and Coulson on an official mission in LA be considered a call-up? Because Mac seemed to say that because of the accords she wasn't allowed to help them, which is why I was confused.

Its government ;) given the political situation at the time you either ask for everything or you ask for nothing. Coulson and Mac seem to be the recon, first contact team who might call in the cavalry, or expect to get help only when in trouble.

[kitlee625]

Finally got around to watching this episode. Have to say, I wasn't that impressed. I like Ghost Rider, but I wish he weren't tied all in with Emo Daisy. I also wish that we saw more of Daisy than just "she has powers" and "she's in her sadness van." Like why is she even doing this? 

[bethy]

I could watch Fitz react to the naked AIDA on a loop for hours. His fist-pump on catching the chip or pretzel or whatever in mouth and then throwing everything in the air and apologizing and "What the hell?" and "No. WHAT THE HELL?" and mouth agape astonishment were all perfect.