S18.E40: Live Eviction 14

[zibnchy]

2 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I disagree. I think it's more a case that--at some point--you stop feeling sorry for a woman who would put up with a man like that and keeps going back to it.

Really? You do? You stop feeling compassion for abused women if they go back to their abusers? Really? I'm just trying to get my mind around this.

God. I need to go outside.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, zibnchy said:

Really? You do? You stop feeling compassion for abused women if they go back to their abusers? Really? I'm just trying to get my mind around this.

You don't? And if the woman had children he also abused, but kept going back to him? Would you still feel sorry for her?

2 hours ago, judie said:

I feel sorry for Zakiyah. She's had the summer from hell.

One she made for herself, let's be honest. Compare her to someone like Amber in BB16, who was treated badly for reasons entirely out of her control.

Edited September 15, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[SevenStars]

28 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

The only person whose word we have for that being the only reason Paulie was aggressive with Da'vonne is Paulie, and I don't believe anything he says. But I wouldn't be surprised if most of the girls didn't want to speak to Zakiyah after she made the choice to be a doormat. If my friend was in a relationship with a man like Paulie, I'd drop her like a rock. If Zakiyah has no self-respect and wants to degrade herself by letting a loser use her, it's her prerogative, but I don't blame any of the other girls for having no respect for her and not wanting to have anything to do with it.

I only believe Paulie cause Day did this same shit with Z about Paulie in the house, when she realized Z had real feelings for Paulie and wasn't playing Paulie like she wanted Z to. She stopped really talking to Z for 2 weeks, until she needed Z's vote. That was long before Paulie did or say shit about Z. He was actually being good to Z during that time.  

As for the other girls right to shunned Z,  yeah, they have that right. I just see it as being petty, stupid and childish, especially coming from Day who knows what it feels like to keep going back to someone you know is not good for you. At least Z might being doing this cause she stuck with Paulie for a few weeks, therefore allowing her feelings to over-ride her common sense. That’s no reason to shunned someone. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by SevenStars

[SevenStars]

19 minutes ago, Nashville said:

It's not your memory at fault.  Frankly, I think the simple truth is James is a helluva lot more out of shape physically this time around.

 

Despite my extreme distaste for Paulie I feel I should echo this because (a) it highlights a double standard of male vs. female behavior, and (b) Da both recognized and exploited the double standard:

• If another male had rushed up shouting in Paulie's face in such an aggressive manner, nobody would have had any problem with Paulie reacting in kind; in fact, depending upon how aggressive and close the rush was, most other guys might even consider a defensive shot justified - against another man.
• If Da had rushed up upon another female in such a manner, nobody would think it inappropriate to any degree for the other female to respond in kind - up on her feet and screaming in Da's face.
• If Paulie had rushed up on Da in exactly the same way Da rushed up on him, the crew wouldn't have just stepped in between Da and Paulie - they probably would have physically pulled Paulie back, if not outright tackling him.  And nobody here could say with any degree of credulity that we wouldn't have several pages worth of forum posts here trumpeting how Paulie had finally exposed his always-suspected penchant for physical abuse, and calling for him to be dragged from the JH in handcuffs.
• But because it's a female (specifically Da, a favorite of many) doing the same to a male (specifically Paulie, a villain to many/most), the same behavior is... okay...?

To a degree, the double standard does exist for a reason: in general, males (a) are societally more inclined than females to go to a physical response in conflicts, and (b) are biologically more equipped to do damage in same.  Big caveat, though: this double standard assumes the male is always the aggressor and the one initiating physical response - and in this specific case, the opposite was true.

Frankly, I was a little surprised by Paulie's response- not only did he not stand to meet Da's aggressive advance, but he threw his hands up and back to show he was avoiding any intimation that he was engaging in any degree of physical contact/response, aggressive or otherwise.  

Paulie's reaction was probably an indication this wasn't his first experience with being aggressively physically rushed by an irate female - anybody here have a problem with that interpretation? :) - but it does raise the question of the double standard.  Is it reasonable of society to expect a male to by default adopt a posture of accentuated defenselessness in the face of aggression, simply because the aggressor is female?

Oh, and P.S.: I have little doubt Da was actively attempting to provoke some degree of physical retaliation response from Paulie - either to get Paulie kicked from the game, or at least to demonstrate he had some suspected propensity for violence.  Paulie didn't bite, though.  And right now I'm mightily pissed at Da for creating a situation where it appears I'm put in the position of defending a POS like Paulie.  

 

Truthfully, I don't think Paul stands a chance in hell with the Jury.  Judging from the JH reaction when Michelle related Paul's use of the c-word, Paul immediately burned four Jury votes on the spot - Michelle, Da, Bridgette, and Z - and quite possibly Paulie as well, should Paulie be worried that supporting Paul after such a publicly volatile comment might result in blowback outside the House.  Even if Paulie didn't flip, Paul would still have to win out with absolutely every other member of the Jury, and that will not happen:

• If Paul is sitting beside Nicole at F2 he loses Corey's vote at least, and probably James as well.
• If Paul is sitting beside James at F2 he loses Natalie's vote at least, and quite probably Nicole and/or Corey as well.

For sure, if Paulie had been the one to go after Day the way Day physically went after him when she realized that he wasn't backing down and Day had said something about Paulie's kid. We wouldn't be hearing about how below the belt Day's comment was, it would be all about how much dangerous Paulie is and all that shit.

I dislike Paulie and think he was wrong to bring up her daughter but Day was so wrong in this argument it's not even funny. 

[mojoween]

I've had a friend turn her back on me because she didn't agree with my choices.  It sucks and I didn't get it.  So Da and Bridgette can go to hell for all I care.

I will defend Paul for a moment and say it looked like he was waiting for direction to open the champagne, not that he wanted to make sure the camera was on him.  That was just my interpretation of how it looked.

[Nashville]

38 minutes ago, judie said:

I feel sorry for Zakiyah. She's had the summer from hell.

Other than the "bumping in the bumper cars" little slices of heaven, you mean...?  :>

P.S.: My brain's connotative interpretation of the phrase "bumper cars" has apparently been irrevocably altered.  Damn you, Calafiore....

[innocuouspuff]

If Paulie and Zakiyah are always together and Paulie sets off Da'Vonne's anger, then part of Da'Vonne separating herself from Zakiyah is an attempt to separate herself from what she knows is a bad scene *for her*. Not just Zakiyah.

And at a certain point, pretending not to notice what's going on can start to feel like enabling. I don't think it's all a case of "do what we say or else". And in my experience, yeah, most people who don't stand up for themselves have been trained out of it by life. I think we can feel sorry for Z while admitting that her making choices many of us might not have made has played a role. Berating her is pointless (both online and in the jury house) but sometimes you don't know what else to do.

Not in love with anyone left but so glad the winner's not going to be boring Corey, ugh.

[AbsoluteShower]

1 hour ago, Gummo said:

As for the rest: yes, Paul has said some AWFUL things to people when his back's been against the wall; he's also played hard, both socially and in comps, and escaped elimination about a thousand times. All in all, I won't be heartbroken if he wins. I won't even be heartbroken if Nicole whines her way to a win. But much as I like James .... no.  Just no.

Except this isn't the case - when he had his back to the wall he was funny Paul and make them all laugh Paul. The moment the scales would tip the other way, it's right back to shit-talking Paul, "never cared!" Paul, "You're a fucking c**t!" Paul.

[Gummo]

Quote

I will defend Paul for a moment and say it looked like he was waiting for direction to open the champagne, not that he wanted to make sure the camera was on him.  That was just my interpretation of how it looked.

Mine too, though James & Nicole looked really confused.

More than usual, I mean.

Quote

Except this isn't the case - when he had his back to the wall he was funny Paul and make them all laugh Paul. The moment the scales would tip the other way, it's right back to shit-talking Paul, "never cared!" Paul, "You're a fucking c**t!" Paul.

Ohhh. I don't watch the feeds so I get my info second-hand, from this board and others. Sounds like I had it exactly backwards. A sore loser is one thing, but a sore winner....

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Big Brother's Production Of One Angry Man

The jury house gets uglier than ever.

[AbsoluteShower]

4 minutes ago, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Big Brother's Production Of One Angry Man

The jury house gets uglier than ever.

Look at the expression on Paulie's face. What a fucking obnoxious shitheel douchebag he is...

11 minutes ago, AbsoluteShower said:

Except this isn't the case - when he had his back to the wall he was funny Paul and make them all laugh Paul. The moment the scales would tip the other way, it's right back to shit-talking Paul, "never cared!" Paul, "You're a fucking c**t!" Paul.

Almost forgot one - "I love boning!" Paul...

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I wasn't referring to the biblical Jezebel but rather to the Jezebel stereotype specifically applied to Black women. There are plenty of google-able references; this is one of them. In the same vein, Day has been painted with the Sapphire (aka "angry Black woman") and Mammy stereotypes and apparently she recognizes it, has been troubled by it, and has regretted some of her behavior which may have caused it.

Well I'm not a racist so I'm not familiar with the special racist definitions of words.  It sort of looks like almost any woman is going to fit one of these stereotypes if you try hard enough and I don't know why anyone would want to try.

[iMonrey]

I want to say the recaps for this show have been one of the few worthwhile things about it, with gems like this:

Quote

Corey is so devastated that the expression on his face nearly changes.

That's so true. There is literally nothing going on behind those eyes. Hence his interview with Julie:

Quote

Well, ya know I have to feel a little bad for Corey ya know? Cause ya know he should have won since he has ya know really long legs but ya know he didn't know his last number ya know? And that ya know was a tough way to go out ya know?

Wow. That was painful to sit through. I mentioned this elsewhere, but I tuned into BBAD one night to find Corey "conversing" with Nicole; the conversation went thusly: "And I was like . . . and she was like . . . and I was like . . . and she was like . . . and I was like . . . and she was like . . . and I was like . . . " I literally couldn't take more than five minutes of that.

Quote

{Paul} showed that painfully tonight as he stood there with everyone staring at him and wouldn't open the champagne until he knew the cameras were on him to capture the moment...

To be fair: We heard Paul saying he was expecting Julie to re-join them after the break because of the time remaining, so they all gathered in the living room, and clearly all three of them were waiting for Julie to come back on the monitor (you could see them all looking up at it expectantly) - and I'm also sure they can hear the audience cheering. So I think they were confused about what was going on.

Quote

It's incredibly sad to me to see a beautiful girl like Zakiyeh so eager to drape herself all over a stupid, jerk like Paulie, but it's clearly her own choice and not something Paulie is forcing on her against her will.  I just have to face that and so does Davonne.

Agreed. Da'Vonne doesn't have to respect her for it though. I don't.

[poopchute]

2 hours ago, zibnchy said:

See, I'm really not comfortable with language like this. Rather than focus on Paulie and his horrible personality, it puts the blame on the woman. Instead of telling the man to clean up his behavior, we contemplate the (deficient) mental status of any woman who would go for him.

Now I'm just speculating here but Zak gives off a very strong PTSD vibe. She needs a good therapist. I know of what I speak. A good therapist saved my life.

Just my opinion.

I think it's possible to think Paulie is a disgusting piece of shit and also think there is something wrong with Zakiyah for wanting to be with him.  I don't think anyone is blaming her for Paulie's terrible personality but she's definitely a moron for being with him.

[laurakaye]

I can't with Bridgette anymore.  I don't want to hear her speak at Finale night, don't want to hear her ask any questions, she's ridiculous.  As in, "Paulie?  You know what I think of you *giggle giggle*?  I think you're a *giggle* misogynist and you make my *giggle* blood boil!  And Z, you can do so much *giggle* better than Paulie *giggle giggle*!"  How does anyone take her seriously, including her place of employment?  I know people who laugh when they're nervous (I am one of them), but she can't even speak a complete sentence without laughing.  It's really weird.

But Paulie, he's gross.  From the way he sits (aggressively) to the way he smiles (more of a reptilian smirk), to his stupid Paul-wannabe-haircut (makes him look deranged) to his clothes (1983 called, they want their white basketball shoes and stone-washed jeans back).  I actually thought he was cute when the season started, but his personality has turned him into one of the ugliest players to ever play this game.

[kassa]

2 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I think it's more a case that--at some point--you stop feeling sorry for a woman who would put up with a man like that and keeps going back to it.

Yeah, there's a saying... first time you're a victim.  After that, you're a volunteer.  

If Z is spending all her time draped over Paulie, and the women don't want to have anything to do with Paulie, he can have all the feelings he wants about the way they're treating her, but that doesn't mean they are obligated to hang around both of them.  

I don't really understand the "DON'T MESS WITH MY KIDS" freakouts I see on reality tv (I've never witnessed it in real life).  Usually it's in reaction to the pointed (almost universally obvious) observation  that the person should be concerned about the behavior the parent is modeling in that precise moment, which is really nothing to do with the child at all.  I could understand the freakout if the person said "No wonder your kid is this way, look at you" or "your kid is going to grow up to be a whatever just like you." But in this case and most others I've seen, that's not been the case.

It's the same as "Your parents must be soooo proud" which doesn't send as many people into "DON'T BRING MY PARENTS INTO IT!" (Except maybe Dorinda on RHNY)

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think it's possible to think Paulie is a disgusting piece of shit and also think there is something wrong with Zakiyah for wanting to be with him.

Yeah - it's not either/or. While I think Da'Vonne over-reacted and came off badly, I also agree with her that Paulie made an idiot of of Zakiyah on national television. That she would still want to be with him suggests she either doesn't realize it or understand it, or doesn't care. And I don't know which is worse, or if it matters. I can't help have a low opinion of her.

Quote

I think you're a *giggle* misogynist and you make my *giggle* blood boil!

She actually said "you make my skin boil," which can be added to the litany of mixed metaphors this season that have driven me crazy, like "gunning after me." That nobody seems to know how to use the commonest of expressions is indicative of the brain power they tend to cast on this show.

Idiots, all of 'em. (Literally.)

Edited September 15, 2016 by iMonrey

[JudyObscure]

41 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I can't with Bridgette anymore.  I don't want to hear her speak at Finale night, don't want to hear her ask any questions, she's ridiculous.  As in, "Paulie?  You know what I think of you *giggle giggle*?  I think you're a *giggle* misogynist and you make my *giggle* blood boil!  And Z, you can do so much *giggle* better than Paulie *giggle giggle*!"  

I'm with you 100%.  I don't know how I got into a thing about Zak and Da'vonne because I actually like both of those women and would like to be friends with them, while I doubt if I could stand to be in the same room with the giggling cabbage girl. 

By the way, she didn't actually say "You make my blood boil,"  she said, "You make my skin boil," so I guess I can safely  say she makes my blood crawl.

[Cosmocrush]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I have some hope that Zak will either see the light a couple of weeks after the finale, or Paulie will dump her and never see her again. I hope for the former, because I want her to have some shred of self dignity. 

I think that ship sailed when Paulie was sharing their sexcapades with the other houseguests after she left.   Or maybe it was when he failed to use the veto and save her?   Or maybe one of the countless times he iced her out when she did something he didn't like. 
Or it could be as simple as being judged by the company you keep. 

18 hours ago, Artsda said:

... Her  [Davonne] language was ridiculous and what business is it of hers who Zakiah spends time with in jury house? They're in jury, let it freaking go.  Instead Davonne is still acting like she's fighting for something. There was no way for her to flip like that.

I think Day really cared about Zak, like a little sister and hates to see her being humiliated.  What DaVonne knows and Zak does not is that when you get out of the house and the game all kinds of interesting things come to light.  

17 hours ago, mojoween said:

Nicole said something like her life was "literally" hinging on the veto and I don't think that's the kind of show CBS would air.

But one I would probably watch in this case with this cast, LOL

[J.D.]

7 hours ago, SevenStars said:

Also, if Paulie has gotten up from his seat to go in Day's face like Day did to Paulie, people would have been calling him all tyes of name for doing that. So I fucking hate when Day did that.

I really, really hate kind of defending Paulie against Day, cause I like Day and have no use for Paulie. But Day went over the top for me last night from start to finish. 

It's a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.  ;P

I've been fighting that urge since it happened.  So much I wanted to say, but it would come across as defending Paulie when I would mean for it to be a commentary on Day's behavior.  We've seen this all before.  She's very confrontational.  She has limited restraint.  She simmers to a boil.  Blows up.  Then cries.  Then tells the world how she knows she's gotta do better to check herself in the future to keep from letting it happen again.  Then there's calm for a little while.  Then simmer, boil, blow up, tears.  

Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.

Had the stand up confrontation happened AFTER Paulie mentioned her daughter, I could have understood.  But it didn't.  She over reacted from the onset, and I agree with the poster who said they get annoyed when Day gets on one line of thinking and repeats that phrase over and over again, like a broken record.  

[J.D.]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

Despite my extreme distaste for Paulie I feel I should echo this because (a) it highlights a double standard of male vs. female behavior, and (b) Da both recognized and exploited the double standard:

• If another male had rushed up shouting in Paulie's face in such an aggressive manner, nobody would have had any problem with Paulie reacting in kind; in fact, depending upon how aggressive and close the rush was, most other guys might even consider a defensive shot justified - against another man.
• If Da had rushed up upon another female in such a manner, nobody would think it inappropriate to any degree for the other female to respond in kind - up on her feet and screaming in Da's face.
• If Paulie had rushed up on Da in exactly the same way Da rushed up on him, the crew wouldn't have just stepped in between Da and Paulie - they probably would have physically pulled Paulie back, if not outright tackling him.  And nobody here could say with any degree of credulity that we wouldn't have several pages worth of forum posts here trumpeting how Paulie had finally exposed his always-suspected penchant for physical abuse, and calling for him to be dragged from the JH in handcuffs.
• But because it's a female (specifically Da, a favorite of many) doing the same to a male (specifically Paulie, a villain to many/most), the same behavior is... okay...?

To a degree, the double standard does exist for a reason: in general, males (a) are societally more inclined than females to go to a physical response in conflicts, and (b) are biologically more equipped to do damage in same.  Big caveat, though: this double standard assumes the male is always the aggressor and the one initiating physical response - and in this specific case, the opposite was true.

Frankly, I was a little surprised by Paulie's response- not only did he not stand to meet Da's aggressive advance, but he threw his hands up and back to show he was avoiding any intimation that he was engaging in any degree of physical contact/response, aggressive or otherwise.  

Paulie's reaction was probably an indication this wasn't his first experience with being aggressively physically rushed by an irate female - anybody here have a problem with that interpretation? :) - but it does raise the question of the double standard.  Is it reasonable of society to expect a male to by default adopt a posture of accentuated defenselessness in the face of aggression, simply because the aggressor is female?

Oh, and P.S.: I have little doubt Da was actively attempting to provoke some degree of physical retaliation response from Paulie - either to get Paulie kicked from the game, or at least to demonstrate he had some suspected propensity for violence.  Paulie didn't bite, though.  And right now I'm mightily pissed at Da for creating a situation where it appears I'm put in the position of defending a POS like Paulie.  

Have you been reading my diary?

Edited September 15, 2016 by J.D.

[J.D.]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

I will defend Paul for a moment and say it looked like he was waiting for direction to open the champagne, not that he wanted to make sure the camera was on him.  That was just my interpretation of how it looked.

That's what I thought as well.  It was a live show.  There are pauses (like Julie reading her index cards) and commercial breaks...etc.  I saw it as Paul waiting for Julie to give him the green light to pop the cork.  The showboating thought never crossed my mind, so I was surprised when I read that here, and multiple times no less.

[J.D.]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

She actually said "you make my skin boil," which can be added to the litany of mixed metaphors this season that have driven me crazy, like "gunning after me." That nobody seems to know how to use the commonest of expressions is indicative of the brain power they tend to cast on this show.

Yeah.  After all, it's not rocket surgery.  ;P

Edited September 15, 2016 by J.D.

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

She actually said "you make my skin boil," which can be added to the litany of mixed metaphors this season that have driven me crazy, like "gunning after me." That nobody seems to know how to use the commonest of expressions is indicative of the brain power they tend to cast on this show.

Oh man, when she said that it made MY skin CRAWL! Haha, I don't know why, but I think that bothered me more than anything else on this episode - well, besides Nicole using "literally" incorrectly. Again. 

 

3 hours ago, poopchute said:

I think it's possible to think Paulie is a disgusting piece of shit and also think there is something wrong with Zakiyah for wanting to be with him.  I don't think anyone is blaming her for Paulie's terrible personality but she's definitely a moron for being with him.

This is exactly where I'm at with it. It's not her fault Paulie acts the way he does, but it IS her fault for tolerating it. I could have given her pass in the house, but when she went to jury all pissed at him, and then wound up right back in his arms again...sigh...

[J.D.]

Honestly, I've gotten a little used to hearing "literally," but I honestly get annoyed by Corey's overuse of "honestly."  If I'm being honest here, I honestly can't stand him always saying "honestly." I honestly cracked up laughing at Paul's impression of Corey even though Paul's impression was really nothing more than Paul saying "honestly" in an innocent Corey voice.  It honestly had me in stitches.   I'll take a "your boy," "pissed" and "never cared" any day over Corey's "honestly."

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by J.D.

[TV-Lurker]

There are some tricks that help remember the "Number of Days" competition.  Assuming that they entered the house on a Wednesday

Evictions and HOH competitions generally happen on Thursdays. (Days 9, 16, 23, 30 etc)

Nominations, Road Kills happened on Fridays. (Days 10, 17, 24, 31 etc

VETO Competition happened on Saturdays, (Days 11, 18, 25, 32 etc)

VETO meetings happen on Mondays (Days 13, 20, 27, 34)

Obviously would not help for special days like the day of the Carnival (Jesse) happened.

What I would like to know if there was a previously evicted houseguest who was out of the house for a considerable amount of time(like Glenn) would they tailor the challenge so it would not put him at a competitive disadvantage?

Edited September 16, 2016 by TV-Lurker
spelling

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, J.D. said:

 It honestly had me in stitches.

Me, too, and the best part wasn't even the "honestly," but the blank look that followed.

[gunderda]

23 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

They have no writing utensils.  That's why Rachel once tried to leave a message with pretzels and Vanessa had to make a chart with skittles.  I also vaguely remember lipgloss girl, from season one, trying to communicate with another girl by pointing to words in the bible.  I don't know why they don't use eyeliner, lip liner, etc. to take notes.  

Because makeup gets used up fast and it can not be wasted! ;)

actually I think they banned all pencil type makeup items for awhile too. I didn't see eyeliner pencils come back until a few seasons ago.

[MRMO]

I checked to see if this had been posted before. I didn't see it so I thought I'd post this explanation of Paulie's behavior. It's dated August 15th. The headline says spoilers but since it's a month later now it doesn't spoil anything:

http://www.celebdirtylaundry.com/2016/big-brother-18-spoilers-paulie-says-psychiatrist-warned-him-not-to-play-bb18-headed-for-a-breakdown/

[Guest]

I think that was just his comments in the live feeds.  I personally think he's full of shit.  He only seems claustrophobic when he needs an excuse.  

[AbsoluteShower]

1 hour ago, MRMO said:

I checked to see if this had been posted before. I didn't see it so I thought I'd post this explanation of Paulie's behavior. It's dated August 15th. The headline says spoilers but since it's a month later now it doesn't spoil anything:

http://www.celebdirtylaundry.com/2016/big-brother-18-spoilers-paulie-says-psychiatrist-warned-him-not-to-play-bb18-headed-for-a-breakdown/

I believe the medical term for this is "douchebaggery excusus", more familiarly known as "horseshit"

[LuvizBlind]

On 9/15/2016 at 1:54 PM, SevenStars said:

especially coming from Day who knows what it feels like to keep going back to someone you know is not good for you.

I'm curious.  This comment, and another one up thread make it seem like you know Day or something.  Do you?  

Here's what I can say further...  If Day 'knows what it feels like' (...meaning she has been in some sort of abusive relationship);  it would actually explain her aggression to me somewhat. (Not that I approve of the way she handled that situation).   Having had the misfortune to be involved with such a man, I can tell you straight up that seeing that kind of behavior toward any woman will fire my ass up quicker than you can blink.  I have zero tolerance.  And yes, I'd be extremely vocal about it to any woman who would continue to return to an abusive situation.  Would I feel sorry for her? Yes. Initially.  Would I continue to feel sorry for her if she kept returning to it? No.  Absolutely not.   And if there are children involved?  I'm getting more than just vocal.  Know that.    

But this whole shunning thing is getting on my nerve; we aren't there, we aren't privy to anything that is going on in the Jury House other than what they show us (edited btw) but everyone is making assumptions.  I wouldn't take Paulies word about anything at all.  And to be honest, if my friend - while hanging with us other chicks in the jury acted and talked like she didn't want anything further to do with him, or indicated in any way at all that she felt victimized; and then when the guy showed up fell right back in with him?  Damn straight I wouldn't be wanting to 'hang' with her any more at that point, cause she lied straight to our face for one thing, and another being a thing called 'tough love'.  I can't continue to support a friend that wants to continue being a victim.  If I'm not part of the solution, then I'm part of the problem.   The other thing I hear being thrown out there is that maybe she's just getting her 'needs' met and that's it.  Well, ok then, if she'd told her 'friends' that...  they wouldn't be shunning her if that is even really happening.  Just my humble opinion be that as it may.  

[LuvizBlind]

On 9/15/2016 at 4:38 PM, JudyObscure said:

By the way, she didn't actually say "You make my blood boil,"  she said, "You make my skin boil," so I guess I can safely  say she makes my blood crawl.

+1 on the Snark scale! That caused me to dissolve into a fit of giggles, and boy did I need that right now.  

[SevenStars]

15 hours ago, LuvizBlind said:

I'm curious.  This comment, and another one up thread make it seem like you know Day or something.  Do you?  

Here's what I can say further...  If Day 'knows what it feels like' (...meaning she has been in some sort of abusive relationship);  it would actually explain her aggression to me somewhat. (Not that I approve of the way she handled that situation).   Having had the misfortune to be involved with such a man, I can tell you straight up that seeing that kind of behavior toward any woman will fire my ass up quicker than you can blink.  I have zero tolerance.  And yes, I'd be extremely vocal about it to any woman who would continue to return to an abusive situation.  Would I feel sorry for her? Yes. Initially.  Would I continue to feel sorry for her if she kept returning to it? No.  Absolutely not.   And if there are children involved?  I'm getting more than just vocal.  Know that.    

But this whole shunning thing is getting on my nerve; we aren't there, we aren't privy to anything that is going on in the Jury House other than what they show us (edited btw) but everyone is making assumptions.  I wouldn't take Paulies word about anything at all.  And to be honest, if my friend - while hanging with us other chicks in the jury acted and talked like she didn't want anything further to do with him, or indicated in any way at all that she felt victimized; and then when the guy showed up fell right back in with him?  Damn straight I wouldn't be wanting to 'hang' with her any more at that point, cause she lied straight to our face for one thing, and another being a thing called 'tough love'.  I can't continue to support a friend that wants to continue being a victim.  If I'm not part of the solution, then I'm part of the problem.   The other thing I hear being thrown out there is that maybe she's just getting her 'needs' met and that's it.  Well, ok then, if she'd told her 'friends' that...  they wouldn't be shunning her if that is even really happening.  Just my humble opinion be that as it may.  

First of all,  I don't believe that Paulie is abusive towards Z. He's been a bastard, asshole and a jerk towards her.  But not abusive, so I wasn't talking about that. I'm putting the rest under spoiler since it's base on the feed information. 

Spoiler

I was talking about the fact that Day complained about her 8 yrs on/off relationship with a guy that treats her like side-chick cause he refuse to go anywhere with her and never even took her out on a date. But she still find herself going back to be over and over again. So she would know what it's like to have real feelings for someone you shouldn't be with and finding it hard to let go. Therefore, she wouldn't be shunning or shading Z for having a hard time letting go of someone she has real feelings for while being force to spend 24/7 with that guy in the house. It's not even easy letting go of someone you care about outside the house, where you can distance yourself from them, surround yourself with people you know love you and support you.  So to expect Z to easily do that while staying with Paulie 24/7 without any support from her loves one, without knowing what the hell Paulie have been saying to her is kind of harsh and unfair to me, but whatever.

As for not believing Paulie, he stated it to Day's face and she didn't deny it, instead she tried to change the subject by insulting his height. Also, I saw Day do the same thing to Z on the feed, so to hear it is happening again doesn't surprise me. 

Edited September 17, 2016 by SevenStars

[LuvizBlind]

1 hour ago, SevenStars said:

First of all,  I don't believe that Paulie is abusive towards Z. He's been a bastard, asshole and a jerk towards her.  But not abusive,

Yes, he's been all those things you said.  And more, in my opinion.  There are many forms of abuse... and I see clearly in him all the classic signs.  These types tend to be able to hone right in on the ones that they can control and beat down (mentally, emotionally), too.   He's an abusive man (to me...), so we'll just have to agree to disagree.  

I understand your point now about Day, but I don't think that changes understanding the dynamic of her quick aggression at all for me.  She could be at a place where she hasn't yet forgiven herself for continuing to return to the bad relationship; she'd be fully aware of how devastating it may have been for her and those around her, and yet still be angry as hell at the situation as well as herself.   Having gone through what I have I know that I'd do absolutely anything to try to prevent any other woman from going through anything like it. And if she didn't listen to reason, and kept returning to the situation; then I did/said what I needed to and I tried to help... the rest is HER choice/decision and I'm certainly not hanging around to watch what I know will be happening again.  Some people just have to learn in the school of hard knocks, so there's no sense wasting your breath continuing to talk about it with them.  In the end, I just hope BOTH Day and Zak get some counselling.   

[Genius]

On 9/15/2016 at 2:41 AM, loki567 said:

I also like the fact that Paulie is so deeply connected to S16 through Cody and Derrick and in turn, his attitude reflects on them and that horrible, shitty season. I thought there was a deep undercurrent of sexism in that season but it never came to the forefront because most of the women with a backbone were taken out early. We were left with Nicole, Christine, and Victoria. 

I totally agree.  The way the Detonators used Caleb's gross fascination and unwanted attention toward Amber as the reason to evict Amber, like she was being punished for not returning his advances, was disgusting, unconscionable, and unforgivable.  I hope that's at least one thing Derrick--who seemingly knows better--feels guilt about for the rest of his life.