S02.E12: Pillar of Salt

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Madison springs into action when one of the hotel residents gets violent.  Meanwhile, Alejandro shows a darker side of himself at the Colonia.

[JackONeill]

Disappointing on many levels.

[Red Fields]

It's so boring.

[ottoDbusdriver]

So was Ophelia's truck scene a flashback -- or a current scene ? Felt like a current scene.

[raven]

Looks like the band may be back together.

I felt badly for Alicia, who is stepping up and getting shit done and Madison is STILL pining for the kid with the ratty hair.  WTF?? 

I gotta say, I'm interested in what's up with Ofelia.  I think Strand survives.

I have no idea who these other two people are on Talking Dead.

[mightysparrow]

Looks like I was wrong about Ofelia; she's not going out in flames.  Yet.

But I was oh so right about Madison.  She's a hateful, psycho bitch.

[riverheightsnancy]

I was wondering how/where Ofelia learned all that stuff. 

[mustbekarma]

Well, I guess this was OK. At least Strand didn't die. Alicia got through to Madison and turned off the lights. Travis is obviously heading to the hotel, although I bet Chris didn't look at the flowers. Because this show hates me.

It's definitely a setup for the feces hitting the rotating oscillator in future episodes.

[raven]

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So was Ophelia's truck scene a flashback -- or a current scene ?

Current.  She took off with the truck and his heading to the USA.  Maybe looking for the fiance?

Quote

I was wondering how/where Ofelia learned all that stuff. 

I could see Daniel teaching her.

Edited September 19, 2016 by raven

[Red Fields]

I can understand a mother wanting both her kids to be with her and to be safe. But unfortunately this seems to be Madison's M.O. wrt to her daughter.

[mightysparrow]

Why does this guy look like Gimple's slower brother?

[JackONeill]

The thing with Madison was so disappointing. I thought she was turning around, toughening up, becoming a leader. But this Nick-thing...it's sick. Not only is she endangering herself, but everyone else at the hotel. Talk about selfish.

not to mention because of what she did, Travis will get back with everyone. Ugh.

[For Cereals]

WTF Madison!?

[Straycat80]

This show is too scattered. Too many characters, and I can't keep the names straight. You have Nick at the Colonia, Zombie Costco, Zombie Club Med and oh here's Ofelia and what she's doing.

I don't understand what was the big deal was with Francisco and his family leaving Colonia. I missed that part. 

Looks like Travis is back next week. Remember him Madison? I think Victor/Strand will be ok. Only two more episodes left for this season. 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Straycat80

[JackONeill]

If I were the actor playing Strand, I might be asking to leave the show now. I see little future here.

I can't get too upset if a lead character makes an ill-informed decision, if they make a stupid one...well, I have no patience for that. And I'm looking at you, Madison.

Madison, remember...Nick chose to leave. It's not like he was kidnapped.

[oakville]

7 minutes ago, raven said:

Looks like the band may be back together.

I felt badly for Alicia, who is stepping up and getting shit done and Madison is STILL pining for the kid with the ratty hair.  WTF?? 

I gotta say, I'm interested in what's up with Ofelia.  I think Strand survives.

I have no idea who these other two people are on Talking Dead.

It looks like Madison lighting up the sign alerted Travis. What a coincidence? Why were so many lights on in the hotel?

Madison is back to be annoying. She is willing to risk everyone's safety to save Nick who is likely dead. He's not but she has no way of knowing that.

I liked the segment where they were fixing up the hotel, planting crops, fishing.

If Strand dies, I will be furious. It makes no sense that the mom would should stab anyone who opened the door.

[raven]

7 minutes ago, Red Fields said:

But unfortunately this seems to be Madison's M.O. wrt to her daughter.

It's a pretty glaring character flaw.  I'm glad the show had Alicia address it directly instead of treating it as something honorable or whatever.

[oakville]

5 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

This show is too scattered. Too many characters, and I can't keep the names straight. You have Nick at the Colonia, Zombie Costco, Zombie Club Med and oh here's Ofelia and what she's doing.

I don't understand what was the big deal was with Francisco and his family leaving Costco. I missed that part. 

Looks like Chris is back next week. Remember him Madison? I think Victor/Strand will be ok. Only two more episodes left for this season. 

They didn't explain why Francisco & family would want to leave Colonia.

I am confused by the geography of Colonia. Do you have to get through the infected to enter Colonia? I the bus the only way out?

[candall]

"I'm HERE!  Why isn't that enough?!?"

Madison:  blank expression

**************

That's my final live-chat post.  (I'm still campaigning for 45 extra seconds beyond the end of the show.)

[raven]

The hotel will probably end up surrounded by zombies and gangs and Nick will say "no way I'm going over there, I bet my mom's there".

[Red Fields]

1 minute ago, oakville said:

They didn't explain why Francisco & family would want to leave Colonia.

I am confused by the geography of Colonia. Do you have to get through the infected to enter Colonia? I the bus the only way out?

I think it was just supposed to show that Colonia is fracturing, and that Alejandro (?) is losing effectiveness as a leader.

[WordsWordsWords]

Bless her idiot heart, Madison shows all the brain power and thoughtful restraint of a hyped-up puppy. Kim Dickens just said (on video) an interesting thing: Madison can't see or think beyond that primal instinct to save her son, so she put everyone at risk. Yes, and she put Nick at risk, too. Alicia stood up to her mother and finally got through to her (for now).

Lord, though, Madison simply quit thinking at all tonight. At.All.

Oh, one more thing. I'm interested in Ofelia's story, both present-day and back-story.

[madam magpie]

3 minutes ago, raven said:

It's a pretty glaring character flaw.  I'm glad the show had Alicia address it directly instead of treating it as something honorable or whatever.

It definitely seems like a purposeful theme. I don't actually mind it from a storytelling perspective, but boy, it makes Madison unlikeable. I struggle with that because the writers do seem to be going for a bit of an antihero a la Don Draper or Walter White, but I'd personally rather watch a cheater or meth dealer than such a neglectful parent. Alicia is so sympathetic that I think much of the audience just can't root for this mother who constantly pushes her aside. When Madison seemed remorseful, people could start to come around, but what we see here is what Alicia has always seen: Madison will always put Nick first...and that's a super unsympathetic quality for the story's lead.

[candall]

14 minutes ago, raven said:

Current.  She took off with the truck and his heading to the USA.  Maybe looking for the fiance?

Really?  I thought the whole fiancé storyline was flashback.  I haven't even been paying attention to any of Ofelia+sweetheart, because who cares about pre-ZA?  (Unless you fortuitously acquired some handy mad drug dealer skillz.)

[JackONeill]

2 minutes ago, Red Fields said:

I think it was just supposed to show that Colonia is fracturing, and that Alejandro (?) is losing effectiveness as a leader.

Well, since they're out of water that would do it for me. But therein lies the problem for any large sanctuary -- infrastructure, or lack thereof.

The hotel had it right with both size and low number of people. Until Madison blew it. It's ironic but she was largely responsible for making it what it was...for, what, a day. Then, down the shitter.

[morgankobi]

OK, I my be wrong, but it may not end up being Nick's fault the Colonia gets overrun. The Costco brutes may hate him, but they would want to take over the their place whether or not Nick stole a Tasty Cake. And the family that left and then got captured had nothing to do with him either.

Color me surprised.

[raven]

3 minutes ago, candall said:

Really?  I thought the whole fiancé storyline was flashback. 

It was a flashback.  He was going to New Mexico, so I just figured she was heading to the US (since we saw the sign) to maybe look for him.  She could just be going because she's sick of Mexico though.

[xaxat]

So the colonia is in trouble because word somehow got out that they have oxy. Hmm wonder how that happened.

On a more serious note, this actually pisses me off. The show is apparently going to forget that it's all Nick's fault.

And these people are the worst negotiators. "Oh yeah! We've got lots of that!"

During the happy hotel montage they should have just stamped the word "doomed" on the forehead of any non regular cast member.

Suture kits? There are plenty of them in every hotel. They are called emergency sewing kits.

4 minutes ago, oakville said:

I am confused by the geography of Colonia. Do you have to get through the infected to enter Colonia? I the bus the only way out?

I am too. There's no way Nick and Luciana got that grocery cart through the walkers to the bus, so there's a pretty easy entrance somewhere.

1 minute ago, madam magpie said:

It definitely seems like a purposeful theme.

I certainly think it is. They ran it parallel to the mother of the bride being so unbalanced because of the loss of her daughter that she stabbed Strand. Somehow I think Madison's actions are going to be far worse for the group than the MOB.

To think, they actually had their shit together for a brief moment. Why can't we have nice things?

[Texasmom1970]

14 minutes ago, oakville said:

It looks like Madison lighting up the sign alerted Travis. What a coincidence? Why were so many lights on in the hotel?

Zombies are afraid of the dark. Wow this episode was dull. I appreciate seeing them doing useful things like fishing for food and planting.

But making ice I was like WTH. I could hear Darryl telling them ice is for pussies! Seems like a waste of resources, especially if they are talking about scouting for gas. 

[riverheightsnancy]

Running the generators to light up the whole hotel, to make ice, to use water, to (likely) have air conditioning, is the height of arrogance and lack of foresight.  Man, this shit will run out soon, rationing is needed. 

[raven]

9 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

I don't actually mind it from a storytelling perspective, but boy, it makes Madison unlikeable.

Yes, she shows more care towards Strand than to Alicia.  I'm actually not bothered that she doesn't seem overly worried about Travis (husband, not as important to her as her kids) or Chris (not her kid, she didn't spend much time with him) as long as she was focused on both of her kids.  I don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Madison at this point, except maybe over crazy moms who stab or whatever.

It could be an interesting family dynamic to explore if Madison learns anything. 

[candall]

3 minutes ago, morgankobi said:

OK, I my be wrong, but it may not end up being Nick's fault the Colonia gets overrun. The Costco brutes may hate him, but they would want to take over the their place whether or not Nick stole a Tasty Cake. And the family that left and then got captured had nothing to do with him either.

Color me surprised.

Ah, but if Nick had just tossed the damn Tastycake into the shopping cart, there wouldn't have been the amputation threat, oxy negotiation, drug dilution, menace to Colonia, hostage situation, etc.  

Eventually the need for water and the need for drugs would have toppled the system, but our man Nick really sped up the fubar.

[madam magpie]

1 minute ago, raven said:

Yes, she shows more care towards Strand than to Alicia.  I'm actually not bothered that she doesn't seem overly worried about Travis (husband, not as important to her as her kids) or Chris (not her kid, she didn't spend much time with him) as long as she was focused on both of her kids.  I don't think we're supposed to be rooting for Madison at this point, except maybe over crazy moms who stab or whatever.

It could be an interesting family dynamic to explore if Madison learns anything. 

You don't think? See...I feel like we are. I think we're supposed to see her as one of the heroes, Nick too. I hope I'm wrong, which, yeah, we'll see if she ever learns anything lasting. She'd have to actually choose Alicia, though, and I just don't see that happening.

The only heroes I see on this show are Strand and Alicia.

[mightysparrow]

Won't Madison be surprised when she finds out that Nick hasn't given her the slightest thought.  He's too busy being camp counselor and playing with his own personal dominatrix.  Meanwhile Alicia has been there for her the whole time.  What happens if Alicia stops trying to be the 'good one' and decides to live her own life for herself.

Did Ofelia ever mention her fiance?  She was getting pretty cozy with that soldier boy back in LA and there was no inkling that she had even held hands with a member of the opposite sex, much less been engaged.

[NorthstarATL]

36 minutes ago, Forcereals said:

WTF Madison!?

It reminds me of the scene from last season when Strand was all "What have you done NOW Madison?" which I thought should become his catchphrase. I like Alicia's story. It rings true. I've known plenty of family dynamics where a needy sibling soaks up all the giving that the family has to the point where a stronger sibling has to raise him/herself, as well as provide support for others.

 The "Ratty Hair" thing was SUCH a shoutout to the viewers! Probably the best thing about the episode.

 I wish they'd find some way to use Strand successfully. HE should be the one negotiating things, not Madison (though his wound this week made that impossible of course), and it seems that the writers have forgotten that, just as with Nick's previous life's skills making him a special survivor, so did Strand's until they stopped.

[candall]

19 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

You don't think? See...I feel like we are. I think we're supposed to see her as one of the heroes, Nick too. I hope I'm wrong, which, yeah, we'll see if she ever learns anything lasting. She'd have to actually choose Alicia, though, and I just don't see that happening.

The only heroes I see on this show are Strand and Alicia.

ITA.  If Madison isn't supposed to be "Female Rick," I'll eat my hat.  And then they've given her this supposedly interesting vulnerability and/or character flaw wrt Nick.

But the huge irony is that the actress plays the hero, inspiring and organizing her people, AND the tragic mother figure, with that same one blank expression.  She's not even "inscrutable"--she's a doorknob.

It slays me.

 

ETA:  I think the show itself has really picked up, but my antipathy toward the lead character is so much of a distraction, it nearly overwhelms everything else. 

Mileage varies.  If you're okay with how Kim Dickens is creating Madison, the show is probably much more enjoyable.

Edited September 19, 2016 by candall

[raven]

9 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

You don't think? See...I feel like we are. I think we're supposed to see her as one of the heroes, Nick too. 

I don't think the show wouldn't have had Alicia so specifically call her out on her obsessive behavior and spell out how negative it is.   Maybe my choice of wording was wrong...Luciana has also accused Nick (rightly) of stupid behavior, and we are following these specific people so we'll see if either one of them learns anything on their respective journeys.  I would have phrased it better to say that we are not supposed to approve of their behavior now.

I wouldn't call Strand a hero - except for killing the zombie bride last week, everything he's done has been pretty self-serving.   He and Madison are leading characters and both have acted pretty selfishly.  Strand has mellowed a bit after losing his lover and presumed home and seems to start to be caring about other people but I don't know yet.

[oakville]

33 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

Zombies are afraid of the dark. Wow this episode was dull. I appreciate seeing them doing useful things like fishing for food and planting.

But making ice I was like WTH. I could hear Darryl telling them ice is for pussies! Seems like a waste of resources, especially if they are talking about scouting for gas. 

The ice kept the fish fresh!

[oakville]

19 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Won't Madison be surprised when she finds out that Nick hasn't given her the slightest thought.  He's too busy being camp counselor and playing with his own personal dominatrix.  Meanwhile Alicia has been there for her the whole time.  What happens if Alicia stops trying to be the 'good one' and decides to live her own life for herself.

Did Ofelia ever mention her fiance?  She was getting pretty cozy with that soldier boy back in LA and there was no inkling that she had even held hands with a member of the opposite sex, much less been engaged.

Madison never mentions her husband Travis or stepson Chris.

Nick could care less about his mom or sister.

Ofelia forgot about her fiance for 2 seasons.

This show needs to do a better job of having characters remembering their loved ones

[JackONeill]

Strand is likeable I think largely because the actor is. Plus the writers gave him an interesting backstory which, sadly, is over. Being a con man I don't if he has it in him to become a sainted hero. I think he would try, expecially for people he likes. But would he sacrifice for a stranger?

I'm not sure what comes next for Strand. 

Plus, we're coming up on season's end. Will any of our immediate party die? I consider the people at Colonia, the hotel and Chris's buddies to be redshirts. (Not all. I think one or two of them will survive.)

[oakville]

37 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Running the generators to light up the whole hotel, to make ice, to use water, to (likely) have air conditioning, is the height of arrogance and lack of foresight.  Man, this shit will run out soon, rationing is needed. 

They should have turned of all the lights in the empty hotel rooms. They should stockpile food from the hotel room mini bars

[madam magpie]

28 minutes ago, raven said:

I wouldn't call Strand a hero - except for killing the zombie bride last week, everything he's done has been pretty self-serving.   He and Madison are leading characters and both have acted pretty selfishly.  Strand has mellowed a bit after losing his lover and presumed home and seems to start to be caring about other people but I don't know yet.

I see what you mean, but I think Strand works as an antihero, much more so than Madison. I should have been more clear. Alicia is the only traditional hero I see, for sure. And I'm OK with that (I love Alicia and the Alycia who plays her). But we spend so much time on her mother's journey...both in actual screen time for Madison, and in screen time for the characters connected to her...that Alicia is less dynamic. We're not watching Alicia grow and evolve with Madison's (and others') stories supporting that journey. Alicia's character supports Madison's journey (whatever it is...I'm not sure yet, which is unfortunate given how many episodes have aired). Madison is the protagonist, whereas Alicia is a supporting player. And that can work...as long as your protagonist is dynamic and sympathetic. But Madison is neither.

I wish she'd die because that would propel Alicia forward and would leave room to elevate Strand. But like @candall said, I think Madison is this story's Rick equivalent and we're stuck with her.

Edited September 19, 2016 by madam magpie

[Cigale]

The family left La Colonia because the little girl was sick.  And we know what they do to sick people.  Hop on the bus!

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 minutes ago, sisterspoon said:

The family left La Colonia because the little girl was sick.  And we know what they do to sick people.  Hop on the bus!

But the little girl didn't appear to have been bit -- did she have the sniffles ?

[Cigale]

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But the little girl didn't appear to have been bit -- did she have the sniffles ?

The dad said she was sick, that's why they had to leave.  I don't think she was bitten.  It seems they not only send the bitten for a bus ride but also sick people who are gonna die.  

[thuganomics85]

Ah, there is the Madison I remember!  The one that is an annoying, selfish jackass and poorly acted by an actress I use to really like.  Nice going there, Maddie.  You easily could have gotten yourself and Elena killed, therefore, dooming Strand as well, which is the worst offense (at least to me!) And then when you do finally get back, you freaking turn the big-ass neon lights on, letting everyone; including armed gangsters and other potential baddies; that the hotel is open for looting and other options.  Brilliant!

And then poor Alicia is practically pleading with her to remember she's her child to and Madison.... just stares at her.  I swear, I don't know what Kim Dickens was going for, but she really made Madison look like she was thinking "Oh, sweetie!  I could never love you as much as I love Nick! Your hair isn't anywhere ratty enough to be my favorite!  I miss my precious Nick!"  Ugh, this was not a good episode for Madison.

At least the stupidity has apparently put Travis back into their sights.  Chris noticeably wasn't with him, so I'm sure we'll find out about that next week.  Hopefully.

Ofeila finally returns and she was mainly just wistfully remembering her ex-fiancee (played by that guy from Manhatten!), and then heading to America.

Nick is still in a relationship with Luciana (boo!), and trying to deal with Alejandro, who is getting paranoid and freaking out.  Hmm...

Favorite scene was the interaction between Strand and Alicia.  Probably helps that I find Coleman Domingo and Ayicia Debnam-Carey to be two of the better actors on this show.

Edited September 19, 2016 by thuganomics85

[Muffyn]

How much did I struggle to stay interested in this episode?  I suddenly realized I was bouncing my cat on my lap while singing "Dancing cat; you're a dancing cat."  It was still more interesting than Maddie seeing the notNick zombie and waxing poetic.  

[mightysparrow]

39 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, there is the Madison I remember!  The one that is an annoying, selfish jackass and poorly acted by an actress I use to really like.  Nice going there, Maddie.  You easily could have gotten yourself and Elena killed, therefore, dooming Strand is well, which is the worst offense (at least to me!) And then when you do finally get back, you freaking turn the big-ass neon lights on, letting everyone; including armed gangsters and other potential baddies; that the hotel is open for looting and other options.  Brilliant!

And then poor Alicia is practically pleading with her to remember she's her child to and Madison.... just stares at her.  I swear, I don't know what Kim Dickens was going for, but she really made Madison look like she was thinking "Oh, sweetie!  I could never love you as much as I love Nick! Your hair isn't anywhere ratty enough to be my favorite!  I miss my precious Nick!"  Ugh, this was not a good episode for Madison.

At least the stupidity has apparently put Travis back into their sights.  Chris noticeably wasn't with him, so I'm sure we'll find out about that next week.  Hopefully.

Ofeila finally returns and she was mainly just wistfully remembering her ex-fiancee (played by that guy from Manhatten!), and then heading to America.

Nick is still in a relationship with Luciana (boo!), and trying to deal with Alejandro, who is getting paranoid and freaking out.  Hmm...

Favorite scene was the interaction between Strand and Alicia.  Probably helps that I find Coleman Domingo and Ayicia Debnam-Carey to be two of the better actors on this show.

Great post!

I was so excited when I heard that Kim Dickens was going to be on this show.  I LOVED Deadwood and I've enjoyed her in other things I've seen.  I am baffled by what she's doing here.  

Kim Dickens claims that Madison is just being a mommy but I call bullshit.  We know that Nick's her favourite but up until the second that she heard Runaway Papi talk about a kid with the ratty hair, it didn't look like she was thinking about Nick that much.  Suddenly she's so overwhelmed with maternal feelings that she throws everything aside?  I've known a mother like Madison, who was so obsessed with the bad seed that she ignored her other children, but I don't see that.  Madison should be thinking and talking about Nick all the damn time, if she's THAT obsessed with him.

This whole thing is a combination of lousy writing and a really bad performance on Dickens part.  

The good news?  I liked Alicia and Strand.  Coleman just seems to make everyone he works with better.  I would kill to see him opposite Danai Gurira but poor Michonne is stuck in Grimes-hell and isn't allowed to have a story of her own.  And all the Black men on TWD seem to get stuck with Carol (for some unearthly reason).  

If Strand dies, it's because Coleman has decided he's gone as far as he can go on this show.  His career is doing quite well right now, so why get stuck being the best thing on a lousy show.

[TDT]

..and just when Madison was starting to become likeable again,she goes and pulls that stunt..i was expecting Strand to yell"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE NOW,MADISON???" from offscreen lol

the walkers are now at the gates of Colonia..i bet Alejandro will be the one who snaps and lets them in

[Iguessnot]

This show is so cheap. The family leaving the colonia is spotted by a truck, so they duck around a corner and just stay there. I have NO respect for such cheap writing tactics. Whoever wrote that should be slapped. 

I'm not understanding the situational dynamics. The Costco warehouse is the shopping center for the area, yet we are to believe that the colonia which is within walking distance, has kept their location hidden, seemingly out of necessity. Yet at the same time Elena from the hotel comes rolling in and her location is no secret. True, it's a long drive but the Costco gang has vehicles, so why is the knowledge of Elena's location not an issue.

Even before hearing about the ratty haired gringo, Madison was getting ready to insert herself into a volatile situation. Whoever wrote that scene must have some deeply ingrained white privilege because that was so arrogantly unbelievable.

By the way, with all these men in the colonia, Nick just comes in and beds Luciana in a few days and there's no reaction. Let's see, dudes with guns and vehicle can't shoot Nick in an open area and get eaten by a slow moving hoard. The Costco cholos look all big and bad, but are quite inept. Along with the vague walker worship I'm sensing a disturbing undercurrent to the already bad writing.