S02.E09: Going Out Fighting

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The crew takes a dangerous mission inside Dwarf Star Technologies in a desperate bid to save their ailing leader.

 

[sjohnson]

Color me surprised: They succeeded! That's why TV shows are so very, very right to love physical jeopardy plots. On the other hand, we got to see Android steal Emily/5's hot chocolate. 

It was pretty much certain that Eric was doomed when they took him into the station with them, just as it's pretty much certain his buddies are just as doomed. It seemed like this should sort of matter for a redemption drama, but then I remembered it's not a redemption drama any more, it's about how Our Heroes bring down the Man. It may have to wait until we have a post-series wrap up movie to be surprised by the end of that arc. 

Ming the Merciless and Nyx are working on little Aura! How sweet! I am a little puzzled as to why this man would think he would have anything to offer Zairon even if he had his memories. It's not like he had a blink drive or anything. (Cue Seers' looking significantly at each other.)

[ottoDbusdriver]

And it's the return of Evil Wil Wheaton.

I did like the personal shield that Rook had.

I wonder of that ball of whatever they took out of Three will come back in play -- as soon as I saw the black oil in Three's eyes I couldn't help but think of the X-Files.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Well, everyone got their Fyx tonight.  "Did you happen to move up to grappling?"  lol

Ugh, the "new and improved" super human was disappointing.  Taken out way too easily.  And of course just a little bit of its blood not only brought Two back to life but made her awesome-sauce in the process.

I'm thinking that thing that was implanted in Three, expelled, and then spaced is not the last we're gonna see of that whole little subplot.

Just what are you mixing into your hot choco there, Five??  Its got the Android tripping balls.

Edited August 27, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36
Spelling is hard

[thuganomics85]

Ah, Rook a.k.a. Evil Bearded Wil Wheaton!  So glad you made an appearance.  What in the hell was he doing with that inky thing that somehow took over Three?  Judging from the personal shield, it seems like Dwarf Star is diverse in its products, so it could have been for anything!  He might want to work on the superhuman thing though, because even though 2.0. did take out Two, he still surprisingly got put down pretty easily by Four. I thought for sure they were setting it up so they would practically have to take a bazooka to him, but nope.  Just a few bullets and a sword, I guess. Disappointing!

Two has not only been cured now, but I'm guessing she'll more or less upgraded, since all they ended up having to do was use the other guy's blood.  But there is still plenty of mystery going on with her.  Out of all the main cast, it still feels like her backstory is more secretive, which makes me wonder if they have something in mind, or they just haven't decided yet.

Six ends up saving Three's life again, so maybe Three will come around on him?  

Nyx and Four are getting it on, which I'm sure will totally not complicate things, once she finds out he helped her brother commit suicide.  Then again, Four seems this close to going back home, since the current Emperor is apparently really fucking things up for their planet.

Android wakes up in some forrest and in a regular nightgown?  That hot chocolate has some crazy side effects!  What did you put in that thing, Five?!

[SimoneS]

I have been rooting of Four and Nyx's romance so I am kind of ticked off that we didn't get to show the build up to the sex. Regardless it is a good story development because it makes Four's decision to leave the Raza more difficult. He is definitely conflicted about what he should do. He knows that the crew needs him and now he has feelings for Nyx even as he tried to downplay them.

I thought that I saw some nice chemistry with Six and Two. Although it could just be that Roger Cross is a good actor who made the scene where Six saves Two more compelling. Six looked devastated when she died. 

I hated that Evil Will Wheaton killed Eric who was so nice. I hope that Three does kill him. The Thing that possessed him was pretty scary so I hope we don't encounter it again anytime soon. 

The Android with the hot chocolate was hilarious as were Eric's co-workers' reactions to the heist and Four saying that he would like to see his nanites repair that. Three is so predictable with his sly snarkiest, but for once I actually found him funny. Nice to see the show is making an attempt at much needed humor.  

Edited August 27, 2016 by SimoneS

[Chaos Theory]

Not my favorite episode of the season but it is alway fun to see Will Wheaton.  Plus I like space shows when the crew heads to "Earth" and you can tell most of them have never been there before.  

Like always the heist part was fun.  I like the idea that yes Two is the kind of person who would take a Hail Mary gamble so she could be a part of the team rather then just let them save her.  The scenes where she was being "experimented on" were hard to watch but interesting.  You can see why she "killed them all' when she escaped.  

Eric's coworkers reaction was hilarious.  Sometimes its the small moments that are the best.

I don't really care ability Four and Nyx but yes it was an obvious pairing so the show needed to get it over with.  I did like Five's reaction.  

Edited August 27, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Ugh, the "new and improved" super human was disappointing.  Taken out way too easily.  And of course just a little bit of its blood not only brought Two back to life but made her awesome-sauce in the process.

Yeah, I thought "Hey, here's an excellent reason for the sword, sneak up behind him and lop that head off - the nanites won't be up to that task." so I was a bit disappointed as well. Been seeing a few too many beheadings in The Tudors, apparently.

Loved the space elevator - I first read about the concept in Arthur C. Clarke's "Fountains of Paradise" and had a hard time visualizing it. So I enjoyed the CGI, though I wish there'd been a bit more of the interior - or maybe just a shot of them zipping up and looking down on Earth.

I have no investment in couples on the show, but I liked the awkward conversation between Four and Nyx. Seemed to capture the reality of those morning after moments.

Speaking of which, Five, when you're grossed out by the adult conversation - clean up after yourself before you leave the table!  

Edited August 27, 2016 by Clanstarling

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

Speaking of which, Five, when you're grossed out by the adult conversation - clean up after yourself before you leave the table!  

But if she did that, Three couldn't snag her leftovers.

[zxy556575]

My instinct is that the black goo wasn't spaced and there are drops on the ceiling or a crevice that will later coalesce and cause a ruckus. We'll see!

Evil Wil Wheaton seems to be an arms manufacturer, among other things. The goo turns people into aggressive fighting soldiers? And I doubt Rebecca and her successor were created so they could conduct reading circles at elementary schools.

Hope all of Three's roars were dubbed, or else Anthony Lemke must have had a very sore throat after filming.

[Triskan]

And I'm still here wondering who the hell sneaked back from the alternate reality last episode... (One ?)

Overall, enjoyable episode.

 

Quote

I thought that I saw some nice chemistry with Six and Two. Although it could just be that Roger Cross is a good actor who made the scene where Six saves Two more compelling. Six looked devastated when she died. 

Anyone doubting Roger Cross is a tremendous actor ? :D 

The man's fantastic in everything he's in ! 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Triskan

[tennisgurl]

Screams into the sky "WHEEEEEEEEEATOOOOOOON!!!!" Yep, making a Big Bang Theory Reference. Go me. 

"Did you move up to grappling?" Heh, oh Three, never change. Or get possessed by some space sludge. Also, Three is really getting sick of being saved by Six. He is clearly doing this on purpose! That jerk! 

I am also enjoying Two and Three as friends, instead of their awkward friends with benefits thing in season one. On the other hand, Six and Two? Yeah, I can ship that. 

[NorthstarATL]

17 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

And it's the return of Evil Wil Wheaton.

I did like the personal shield that Rook had.

I wonder of that ball of whatever they took out of Three will come back in play -- as soon as I saw the black oil in Three's eyes I couldn't help but think of the X-Files.

I hope the personal shield will be, like the blink drive, an acquisition that the crew can utilize in the future because you KNOW we are going back to DST, especially as :

4 hours ago, lordonia said:

My instinct is that the black goo wasn't spaced and there are drops on the ceiling or a crevice that will later coalesce and cause a ruckus. We'll see!

Evil Wil Wheaton seems to be an arms manufacturer, among other things. The goo turns people into aggressive fighting soldiers? And I doubt Rebecca and her successor were created so they could conduct reading circles at elementary schools.

Hope all of Three's roars were dubbed, or else Anthony Lemke must have had a very sore throat after filming.

the black goo seemed to very much have been released in the Raza before the spacing.

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Yeah, I thought "Hey, here's an excellent reason for the sword, sneak up behind him and lop that head off - the nanites won't be up to that task." so I was a bit disappointed as well. Been seeing a few too many beheadings in The Tudors, apparently.

Loved the space elevator - I first read about the concept in Arthur C. Clarke's "Fountains of Paradise" and had a hard time visualizing it. So I enjoyed the CGI, though I wish there'd been a bit more of the interior - or maybe just a shot of them zipping up and looking down on Earth.

I have no investment in couples on the show, but I liked the awkward conversation between Four and Nyx. Seemed to capture the reality of those morning after moments.

Speaking of which, Five, when you're grossed out by the adult conversation - clean up after yourself before you leave the table!  

I was hoping that about the sword as well! I had a chance to replay the rescue scene, though, and the one quibble I have with the episode is that Four and Six did not hear Rook's explanation of what Two was fighting, yet their actions were dependent upon said knowledge. Initially I thought that whatever was up with Three had caused HIM to say something, but that's not what happened.

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, Rook a.k.a. Evil Bearded Wil Wheaton!  So glad you made an appearance.  What in the hell was he doing with that inky thing that somehow took over Three?  Judging from the personal shield, it seems like Dwarf Star is diverse in its products, so it could have been for anything!  He might want to work on the superhuman thing though, because even though 2.0. did take out Two, he still surprisingly got put down pretty easily by Four. I thought for sure they were setting it up so they would practically have to take a bazooka to him, but nope.  Just a few bullets and a sword, I guess. Disappointing!

Two has not only been cured now, but I'm guessing she'll more or less upgraded, since all they ended up having to do was use the other guy's blood.  But there is still plenty of mystery going on with her.  Out of all the main cast, it still feels like her backstory is more secretive, which makes me wonder if they have something in mind, or they just haven't decided yet.

Six ends up saving Three's life again, so maybe Three will come around on him?  

Nyx and Four are getting it on, which I'm sure will totally not complicate things, once she finds out he helped her brother commit suicide.  Then again, Four seems this close to going back home, since the current Emperor is apparently really fucking things up for their planet.

Android wakes up in some forrest and in a regular nightgown?  That hot chocolate has some crazy side effects!  What did you put in that thing, Five?!

I thought this episode pretty much filled in all the important blanks on Rebecca/Portia/Two. It would be interesting to know how/if parallel Portia dealt with HER nanite failure. My guess is that the Android is experiencing something to do with the goo Three brought on board. It would be cool if somehow it all incorporated the tagalong from the parallel universe, One or not.

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

I was hoping that about the sword as well! I had a chance to replay the rescue scene, though, and the one quibble I have with the episode is that Four and Six did not hear Rook's explanation of what Two was fighting, yet their actions were dependent upon said knowledge. Initially I thought that whatever was up with Three had caused HIM to say something, but that's not what happened.

Eric had provided the necessary intel when they snagged the vials in the lab. He told them that a single shot of second-gen nanites was enough as they would replicate and disperse through her system.

Excellent episode (no Seers in sight, yay!) - I don't think we've seen so many emotional reactions ever in one single episode and for the first time I really bought them not just as a team forced to work together by necessity but as friends (incl. Four and Three). Plenty of humor too. Three was great with the grappling line but my favorite was the Android commandeering Five's hot chocolate.

They're finally trying to do something with Four. I liked his little monologue in the Marauder about divided loyalties (I don't mind him being a monarchist). And whoever mentioned above that the relationship with Nyx will play into that too is right. Of course that will be further complicated by his helping her brother to commit suicide. Things will get interesting.

I loved Eric's co-workers, they reminded me of Better Off Ted's Phil and Lem. Not surprising, Rook is a more lethal version of Veronica. I hope they survived and handed in their resignation. But I always enjoy Will Wheaton playing baddies.

Did we just encounter our first alien life-form? I thought the black goo was sentient but maybe it was an AI. I expected to see it creepily stuck to the Raza's hull in the last shot but instead we got the Android's theobromine-induced vision. (I guess it was something else going on but I like the idea that like a cat she can't deal with chocolate.)

[zxy556575]

18 hours ago, MissLucas said:

They're finally trying to do something with Four. I liked his little monologue in the Marauder about divided loyalties (I don't mind him being a monarchist). And

I liked getting this glimpse into his psyche too, but since he believes he'd be of little use to Zairon without his memories it's somewhat befuddling to me that he even wants to go back. Or that he chose not to retrieve his memory when given the chance. Did he give his reasoning? My recall is not total.

Four already cut off android Wendy's head and that didn't work, so maybe he's over it as a fight tactic.

Edited August 28, 2016 by lordonia

[wanderingstar]

I enjoyed that.

I found myself pleasantly surprised by the Four/Nyx hookup. I like their dynamic. And Three's reaction to it - as well as Five's - was hilarious.

The Three/Six banter is (I hope) leading to something. Six has saved Three's life several times now, and even Four seems to have come around somewhat on Six.

Loved the Six/Two dynamic in this episode. 

Android was great in this one as well. The bit with the hot chocolate was cute. I'm curious to see what's up with her next week.

Quote

as soon as I saw the black oil in Three's eyes I couldn't help but think of the X-Files.

Ha! Me too! 

Looks like

Spoiler

next week, Four will be weighing whether to hang onto his memories.

[NorthstarATL]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Eric had provided the necessary intel when they snagged the vials in the lab. He told them that a single shot of second-gen nanites was enough as they would replicate and disperse through her system.

 

I remembered that, and knew WHY Six knew what the nanites would do. My quibble was with the fact that Rook had explained who Two was fighting only to her. The arriving rescuers were not aware of his status as far as I can recall.

[KaleyFirefly]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am also enjoying Two and Three as friends, instead of their awkward friends with benefits thing in season one. On the other hand, Six and Two? Yeah, I can ship that. 

I'll ship anyone with Roger Cross. He's hot.

[Locutus]

Android either has discovered she can dream (see tng birthright) or it's the other refugee robots calling her on the internet phone (see various Voy Borg eps.)

[mjc570]

5 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I'll ship anyone with Roger Cross. He's hot.

If only I could ship MYSELF with Roger Cross.  Sigh

[wanderingstar]

4 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

If only I could ship MYSELF with Roger Cross.  Sigh

Seriously! 

Back to the ep: if this was first flickers of a Two/Six pairing, I'm so here for it!

[FurryFury]

Eh, I'm not. Six kunda bores me this season tbh. I miss him with Five.

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, FurryFury said:

Eh, I'm not. Six kunda bores me this season tbh. I miss him with Five.

Papa Six is definitely a better fit for the show than another friends with benefits Six 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

I remembered that, and knew WHY Six knew what the nanites would do. My quibble was with the fact that Rook had explained who Two was fighting only to her. The arriving rescuers were not aware of his status as far as I can recall.

Given they knew there were newer models, so to speak, for me it didn't take much for me to believe they'd be able to assess the situation in an instant - given that those quick analysis skills are required for them to survive.

[DearEvette]

On 8/27/2016 at 7:47 AM, SimoneS said:

I have been rooting of Four and Nyx's romance so I am kind of ticked off that we didn't get to show the build up to the sex.

But all that sweaty sparring over the past how ever many episodes was their build up.  Dontcha know?  That was - ha ha - fourplay.

Seriously, it did make me sit up and say "well, Hello!" when the show started with just those two.  I like them as a couple.  I like how Dark Matter does romance overall so far.  It doesn't try to make romance part of the show but instead acknowledge that a group of prime adults all stuck together will probably result in some sexy times.  And allows that to be an element of the show, but not necessarily a focus.

On 8/27/2016 at 10:52 AM, Clanstarling said:

Yeah, I thought "Hey, here's an excellent reason for the sword, sneak up behind him and lop that head off - the nanites won't be up to that task." so I was a bit disappointed as well. Been seeing a few too many beheadings in The Tudors, apparently.

Yeah, after he shot him, I was like "Behead him! Behead him!"  His nanites will probably fix the hole in his head and he'll be ready for revenge soon.

15 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I loved Eric's co-workers, they reminded me of Better Off Ted's Phil and Lem. Not surprising, Rook is a more lethal version of Veronica. I hope they survived and handed in their resignation. But I always enjoy Will Wheaton playing baddies.

One of the things I am liking about this season of DM is how it is injecting little bits of humor amongst the episodes.  It is still about the Raza and their David vs. Goliath mission.  But it doesn't feel and dark and fraught as it did last season.  These two guys punched up the scene in an amusing way with just their body languages.  How they wilted in unison when faced with Two. Or their defensive posture when she demanded their retinas.'

Also "House of Frying Daggers."  Ha.  Great name for a Chinese take-out place.

I enjoyed this episode a lot.  Mainly because it was nice getting some more back story on Two, the complications it set up with the black goo, Wil Wheaton's character (of course this isn't gonna be his last appearance), and Four's story, the continuing forgiveness arc of Six by Three.  So it packed a lot in and kept the momentum going.

[MissLucas]

7 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Also "House of Frying Daggers."  Ha.  Great name for a Chinese take-out place.

Yeah, almost forgot about that - and the closed "Fists of Curry". Whoever wrote that episode really had a great sense of humor. (I guess one could look at that joke as a shout-out to Firefly.)

[Ceindreadh]

18 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Yeah, almost forgot about that - and the closed "Fists of Curry". Whoever wrote that episode really had a great sense of humor. (I guess one could look at that joke as a shout-out to Firefly.)

So is "I'll be on my charging station" the android equivalent of "I'll be in my bunk" ? ?

[Wouter]

That was a fun and exciting episode! I was never worried for Two, but the thing in Three did get me worried (I was surprised they already dealt with it in this episode - as far as we know, anyway) and oddly, it was Eric and his two colleagues that struck the emotional cord. I was wondering if Eric was part of the trap (that probably everybody suspected was coming) or genuine, and after that what would happen to him.

I'm not still not 100% certain that Rook did not want exactly this to happen, though. Otherwise, why leave that thing in three? Three seemed to be going for the blink drive, presumably to take it back to Dwarf Star. He may not have been counting on Two surviving, but it seems he may have wanted three to reach the Raza again. Since we didn't see Eric shot (only heard it), even that could have been a fake out.

One thing I don't quite understand is why "new and improved" superhuman seemed impervious to bullets first, as if he had another one of those shields, and then suddenly Four managed to hurt him quite a bit.

22 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Eric had provided the necessary intel when they snagged the vials in the lab. He told them that a single shot of second-gen nanites was enough as they would replicate and disperse through her system.

Excellent episode (no Seers in sight, yay!) - I don't think we've seen so many emotional reactions ever in one single episode and for the first time I really bought them not just as a team forced to work together by necessity but as friends (incl. Four and Three). Plenty of humor too. Three was great with the grappling line but my favorite was the Android commandeering Five's hot chocolate.

They're finally trying to do something with Four. I liked his little monologue in the Marauder about divided loyalties (I don't mind him being a monarchist). And whoever mentioned above that the relationship with Nyx will play into that too is right. Of course that will be further complicated by his helping her brother to commit suicide. Things will get interesting.

I loved Eric's co-workers, they reminded me of Better Off Ted's Phil and Lem. Not surprising, Rook is a more lethal version of Veronica. I hope they survived and handed in their resignation. But I always enjoy Will Wheaton playing baddies.

Did we just encounter our first alien life-form? I thought the black goo was sentient but maybe it was an AI. I expected to see it creepily stuck to the Raza's hull in the last shot but instead we got the Android's theobromine-induced vision. (I guess it was something else going on but I like the idea that like a cat she can't deal with chocolate.)

Four seems to be default option for the treason that was predicted - last episode he was shown what a difference even a single blink drive can make for "his" war, and now it has been established Zairon is losing badly in his own reality. Either Mallozzi is going for a massive cover-up to pull the wool over our eyes, or Four is going to be the betrayer.

I suspect the black goo thingy may be an alien; I recall here that in Rook's S1 episode, he was talking to an older man - receiving orders, actually - who used a disembodied voice. It was speculated at the times that aliens (of the body possession type) may be involved.

[MissLucas]

Right, Three was headed for the blink drive - so was it invented by Dwarf Star Technologies or did black goo entity (this thing needs a better name) know about it because it had scanned Three's brain? Could be both - I always wondered when the inventor of the blink drive would show up to the party.

And yeah, after some mulling over things I remembered the old dude even Rook was scared of too. Pretty sure there's a connection to the black goo and maybe even all of Dwarf Star's surprising inventions.

[Black Knight]

Loved this episode. It was a beautiful payoff for almost two seasons of the crew getting to know each other - but the writers did a nice job of bringing the feels without getting cheesy about it. There weren't long speeches from everyone about how much they love Two or whatever; that was left mostly to reaction shots and to what they were willing to do to help her. And as such, there were a lot of nice little details.

I've said before that one of the reasons I didn't want the Android to use the upgrade all the time is because Zoie Palmer is just so damn good at conveying emotions in an android way and I would really miss that. This episode was a real showcase for ZP in that regard. The Android's voice is always a little too chipper in inappropriate situations - just listen to her "I'm sorry, Two" right before she drops the bomb that Two is dying - and that makes for a terrific contrast when we see her face and ZP somehow conveys, without facial expression, what the Android is really feeling. She was devastated, worried, didn't believe half of her own reassurances to Five (and was saying a lot of it to try to make herself feel better), and then so happy. I enjoyed Two calling her out on what she was doing, pointing out that it's what a friend would do. Another nice little moment was when Two - who of course wouldn't be able to stand the idea of not risking her life with everyone else - was insisting that the Android give her some sort of temporary fix and there's a wide shot where the Android drops her head. That little drop of the head was all that was needed to let us know that whatever the Android was about to come up with, it was something that she hated and didn't want to do to Two.

Which brings me to something else - I've been wondering why evil Two modded the Android, since she was, y'know, evil. With the flashbacks we got in this episode, I think I understand now. She felt a certain kinship on account of also being someone who was engineered by others, and because of the way she was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly, having no rights because in the eyes of the law she was nothing but owned property, she wanted her ship's android to have free will.

I liked they included a short bit showing us Nyx becoming a full-fledged member of the Raza: Being told exactly what Two is. It's the crew's greatest secret, the one that even Six wouldn't give up back when he thought turning Two, Three and Four in was the right thing to do. As an aside, I really love the addition of Nyx to the crew and I hope she's a regular next season. (Does anyone else think it's more than coincidence that both of the new members were given names that rhyme with numbers? Nyx-Six, Devon-Seven? I feel like the writers wanted to subtly echo the naming convention of the original crew members.) And Three and Five's reactions to Fyx were hilarious.

At the end of that same scene, I liked that after Six spoke up, Two didn't just take him as speaking for the whole crew. She looked at every single one of them in turn (I especially loved the little warm smile Three gave her, when she got to him), giving each of them the chance to make their own decision. Following on that theme, I thought it a nice touch by the writers that a little later, Two makes a point of explicitly expressing her thanks to Nyx and Four - it's not that she was not thankful to all of them (as she tells Six near the end), but her relationships with Nyx and Four weren't as obviously close as with the others, Nyx on account of her being new and Four on account of his being reserved in words and expression. I've said it before, the writers really do a nice job of giving all the different dynamics their due. (Another great example of this was Five choosing to involve only the Android initially in Two's crisis.)

It was a jolt to see Rebecca fling herself into Eric's arms in a way that neither evil Two or Two ever would - to see her that nakedly vulnerable (just as in the second episode when Five was beating her in her memory) is shocking. Even when Two's vulnerable, it's still somehow with a tough veneer. It was equally shocking to see Four on the verge of tears when Two briefly died. Six and Nyx are compassionate, emotional people (and Three would've flipped if he hadn't been possessed at the time), but to see Four's reserve break? So, I can't see Four being the betrayer. The writers seem to want us to think it's going to be him (which in itself means it's probably not) - but seeing his reaction to Two's death? No. He doesn't need to betray the crew. Two has said a number of times that anyone who wants to leave can; she's not running some kind of "the only way out is death" operation. And if he wants to help Zairon, the crew would help him with that. They have helped Four before. I guess the only wild card is if Four takes his memories back and it changes him significantly, but old Four had a relationship with old Two and Three, too. I feel like both of his selves having worked with them would be enough for his blended self to do the same, instead of just running off with the blink drive or whatever. The crew of the Raza is a huge asset: Two's practically invincible, and the others also bring a lot to the table, most of them as fighters and Five because of her tech brilliance.

Five is becoming less of a kid: As upset as she was about Two in this episode, when it all worked out she didn't throw herself into a hug with Two like she did several times last season under similar circumstances.

And finally - because this post is getting too long, so I'll wrap up - I liked that the episode culminated with an example of Two being a good leader, since everything up to then was about the others willingly risking their lives for her. She listened to Six about Three, and when the thing in Three started going nuts in the stasis pod, she was the one who realized it was an opportunity to save Three, and took decisive action. And the rest followed her orders unhesitatingly.

[Wouter]

16 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Which brings me to something else - I've been wondering why evil Two modded the Android, since she was, y'know, evil. With the flashbacks we got in this episode, I think I understand now. She felt a certain kinship on account of also being someone who was engineered by others, and because of the way she was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly, having no rights because in the eyes of the law she was nothing but owned property, she wanted her ship's android to have free will.

 

It was clear from the very first episode of the show that Two and the Android are close; the reveal that Two was a synthetic (and illegal) lifeform as well explained much of that, especially since the Android had suspicions already early in S1. During "Stuff to steal and people to kill", it made sense that this shared property/experience made for a bond between Portia and AU-Android. Seeing what was done to Rebecca, it also is clear why Portia is the way she is - with only the cold actions of Dwarf Star as guidance. Losing her memories was a blessing in this respect.

Quote

It was a jolt to see Rebecca fling herself into Eric's arms in a way that neither evil Two or Two ever would - to see her that nakedly vulnerable (just as in the second episode when Five was beating her in her memory) is shocking.

It was a striking moment; I guess most of the audience was worried about Eric's fate after that (if they weren't before). Apparently the only one who had shown some kindness. The only one to be spared, too.

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And finally - because this post is getting too long, so I'll wrap up - I liked that the episode culminated with an example of Two being a good leader, since everything up to then was about the others willingly risking their lives for her. She listened to Six about Three, and when the thing in Three started going nuts in the stasis pod, she was the one who realized it was an opportunity to save Three, and took decisive action. And the rest followed her orders unhesitatingly.

That's a nice observation. It was a bit weird they dealt with the black goo so quickly (assuming it was really expelled from the ship), but using this as a way to showcase why Two is the trusted leader makes sense.

[Black Knight]

8 hours ago, Wouter said:

It was clear from the very first episode of the show that Two and the Android are close; the reveal that Two was a synthetic (and illegal) lifeform as well explained much of that, especially since the Android had suspicions already early in S1. During "Stuff to steal and people to kill", it made sense that this shared property/experience made for a bond between Portia and AU-Android. Seeing what was done to Rebecca, it also is clear why Portia is the way she is - with only the cold actions of Dwarf Star as guidance. Losing her memories was a blessing in this respect.

It was a striking moment; I guess most of the audience was worried about Eric's fate after that (if they weren't before). Apparently the only one who had shown some kindness. The only one to be spared, too.

You're right that it's not news that Two and the Android are close - the Android quickly grew to respect Two as a leader, and she appreciated the way Two treated her, and as you say she suspected early what Two really is. She's long been the Android's second favorite crew member, after Five. For Two's part, she trusts the Android, perhaps more than she does anyone else. But, it was big news, news we only just learned in the parallel verse episode last week, that Portia and the Android had a special relationship as well. When the Android was worrying about her programming being flawed, she never once speculated that Two modded her. It never occurred to Two either. Both of them were shocked when parallel verse Android dropped the bombshell on them that Portia did it. It never occurred to me either until that revelation, because up until that moment Portia had always been portrayed on this series as unrelentingly evil. If she was going to modify an android, I would've expected it to be in an evil way - make the Android loyal only to her, eschew any and all programming that might otherwise prevent her from doing whatever Portia wanted, etc. So since that reveal last week I'd been asking myself the question of why Portia modded the Android, given the way she did. And this episode's flashbacks made me understand.

Following on that, it was interesting to learn that Five was wrong in what she said to Two in the memory - Rebecca did get treated halfway decently by one person. And as a result of that we got the one other break in the "Portia was unrelentingly evil" narrative we've had so far, in Rebecca's choice to spare Eric when she killed everyone else on the station. That choice provides support for her later choice to modify the Android the way she did. Portia was pretty damn dark and evil, but it turns out even she had flashes of humanity.

The thing with Eric is interesting, though, because part of it was Stockholm Syndrome. He said it was hard to watch her being tortured, but he still watched. He knew she was well-nigh invincible, built to be a super-soldier, but he never offered to help her escape. He was as kind as he could be, but he ultimately went along with his employer - even after she escaped, he still stayed with Dwarf Star for the next ten years and presumably saw more of these prototypes receiving awful treatment. The reason I bring this up is that I think Rebecca understood on some level that her bonding with him was Stockholm Syndrome to a large degree and that although his instincts were to be kind, he was still a complicit man too weak to take any risk to help her, or to think of giving up his job. It explains why she didn't ask him to help her escape nor confided in him of her plans, and while she spared him because his kindness earned him that much, she didn't suggest that he come with her. And it explains why, even though Five turned out to be wrong that Rebecca had never been treated well by anyone, her experience of his kindness was not enough to keep her from being so dark, because even his kindness, goodness, was flawed, limited. He had good instincts, and I felt bad when he was killed, but can anyone who continued to work for Dwarf Star's R&D after all that he saw with Rebecca be described as a good man? In that respect he reminds me of Six's coworker at the prison, who knew Two, Three and Four were going to be murdered if they didn't escape, but still tried to prevent their escape anyway because when it came down to it, he was still a complicit, enabling prison guard ultimately unwilling to stand up for right.

Back to Two and the Android, the revelation in the last episode plus the Android being so emotional in this episode over Two really adds new punch to the scene in the neural link episode where the "original base version" of the Android encourages Five to beat Two mercilessly. I commented in that episode thread about how in addition to everyone else's past selves we also got the Android's, we saw that she didn't go out of her way to be helpful and sure didn't give a shit about anyone, but now that we know that it was Portia who made the Android what she became, it's going to be interesting to rewatch that scene with that knowledge. The Android would be horrified if she knew what her original base programming self said to do to Two. (I liked the look between Two and Five in this episode when Two described that event in an incredibly general way. It's something where the actual details are only ever going to be known to the two of them. Two doesn't want to talk about how vulnerable she was, and Five respects that, and also feels guilty for hitting Two at all, so it's not like she's wanting to tell others exactly what happened either.)

[sjohnson]

Re the GA who didn't want to release the Raza...they've got quite a death toll subsequent to their escape, so no, I'm not so sure Varrick's murder of his friend was such a happy moment. 

Not so sure Eric had a practical option for quitting. The notion he deserved to die for not unleashing Portia Lin on the universe is striking. 

[Wouter]

5 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Re the GA who didn't want to release the Raza...they've got quite a death toll subsequent to their escape, so no, I'm not so sure Varrick's murder of his friend was such a happy moment. 

Not so sure Eric had a practical option for quitting. The notion he deserved to die for not unleashing Portia Lin on the universe is striking. 

We don't know if Lt. Anders died; Varrick was hit, too, and he made it. Anders was hit twice, but he would probably have received medical attention quicker.

Since escaping, the "death toll" of the Raza group has actually been very low. We had Three's ex-buddies (who themselves were worse than the Raza gang), maybe a few thugs hit hard by the Android (though not sure if there would be any fatalities), Jace Corso (the GA men who died were killed by Corso's boobytrap, not by the Raza gang), maybe a couple of seers (though I think stun weapons were used, so maybe not) and I'm not sure if anyone died during the assault on Reynaud's place.

It sure doesn't compare to the amount of bodies that piled up in S1, let alone before the memory loss. I would say that Two, post-escape, has taken over One's old role as the crews conscience in a very effective way (especially since One was already agreeing to things like the Space Station heist in late S1, against Two's judgment).

I agree that Eric probably was unable to walk out, given that evil companies like Dwarf Star are very likely to take a dim view of scientists leaving the firm with valuable research data and extensive knowledge of criminal activities (remember that Two is forbidden tech). However, he would not have unleashed Portia Lin; at the time he only knew Rebecca, who was a weak victim up to that point. We also know that Portia Lin is not all that Rebecca could be; the memory loss improved her more then any of the others.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Wouter

[sjohnson]

True, the ones killed by Android at Emily/5's order are technically part of the escape, not subsequent. 

It's also true I'm including such people as the man murdered by Boone's gang as they were robbing the tower, and Eric. I'm inclined to think that felony murder charges need some care. But yeah, deciding to commit a crime and then some bystanders get killed, you have some responsibility. 

Still, it's quite true there no mass slaughter like the laboratory explosion in first season...yet.

[Black Knight]

I just don't believe that in ten years Eric couldn't have gotten another job. He had ten years. And he was only a junior researcher at the time, so unlikely to have been considered that valuable. There are also non-competes, non-disclosure agreements if Dwarf Star was all that worried. Or he could've just started fucking up at his job so he'd get fired for poor performance (and he could blame his poor performance on all the stress caused from witnessing Rebecca massacre his coworkers). Like I said, Eric had good instincts, and I felt bad when he got killed, but still, his complicity, particularly the fact he continued to work at Dwarf Star for another ten years, just really bothers me. If there was any doubt in his mind as to just how truly traumatizing Rebecca found the treatment she received at Dwarf Star's hands, her slaughtering everyone at the station but him would've ended it. But he continued to take part in such torture for another ten years, rising through the ranks from his original junior researcher position as he did. He never drew a line. Dude didn't even have a wife and kids to support and protect, the usual mitigating circumstance given on TV for a seemingly decent person continuing to act as a collaborator and participate in horrific acts. He didn't say anything about hating his work over the last ten years, either, or about how he would like to get out but can't. So, while he had goodness in him, I don't think I'd call him a good person on balance. Still sorry he got murdered, though. His principal failing was that he was a weak person. (It's interesting to contrast him with Six, who, when he realized the GA was corrupt and no better than the corporations, decided to get out of the GA, and when told that Two/Three/Four were going to be murdered, didn't just shrug that it'd be too hard to do anything about it but instead took action, at great personal risk to himself, to stop it.)

I've been thinking more today about Two's memory of her post-escape. When we first saw that memory, earlier this season, we were told that Five would be going into a memory of when Two was at her most vulnerable, and we weren't given any context for the memory - we just saw that it was Rebecca, in medical clothes, outside with a building in the background. Now we know it's from after her escape from that building, and we saw exactly what happened to her inside that building. Knowing what we know now, you'd think the memory Five found herself in would've been from one of Two's many sessions of being tortured. That, post-escape, it's maybe not happy times - that she'd be stressed about possibly getting caught, etc. - but still, she's gotten out of the building, she's killed almost all her tormentors except Rook, things are presumably looking up more than they ever have in her short miserable life to date, a sigh of relief would be understandable...now isn't it interesting, and heartbreaking, that that's Two's most vulnerable moment? That that as awful as it was for her inside Dwarf Star, the known aspect of that was still less frightening for her than being outside, alone, for the first time in her life? It really does break my heart. (And, it underlines the significance of her not taking Eric with her. As scared as she was to be outside, she wouldn't take him, the one person who was at all kind to her, kind enough that he's the one person she spared. She appreciated that kindness but she knew it only went so far. Rather than clinging to him, she didn't want him with her.) And it makes me want to see the rest of the backstory on her, now - I want to know how she went from the frightened Rebecca in the alleyway, whom Five - a teenager - reduced to a cringing figure on the ground with one blow, to the utterly in command Portia on the Raza. I agree with the poster upthread who said Two's backstory still has the most to fill in. We know how Five got to the Raza, why Six was on the Raza, and Three and Four being mercenaries, their paths to the Raza are straightforward enough. But Rebecca, who was not socialized, who was terrified to be outside, who had to be careful not to expose what she is...well, that's a trickier path for her.

[sjohnson]

Somehow I don't think Dwarf Star Technologies deems a non-compete, non-disclosure contract adequate to cover its exposure from a witness to crimes, especially if their personal role makes it pretty easy for prosecutors to cut a deal for testimony. On the other hand, the way Varrick kills people when he is disillusioned really is much more bad ass, much sexier than disgusting people like Eric (and One too for that matter.) 

Another, more interesting aspect is whether Eric ever felt guilty over releasing Rebecca, whenever he contemplated Portia Lin's career?

[Wouter]

On 31-8-2016 at 7:20 AM, Black Knight said:

I just don't believe that in ten years Eric couldn't have gotten another job. He had ten years.

[...]

I've been thinking more today about Two's memory of her post-escape. When we first saw that memory, earlier this season, we were told that Five would be going into a memory of when Two was at her most vulnerable, and we weren't given any context for the memory - we just saw that it was Rebecca, in medical clothes, outside with a building in the background. Now we know it's from after her escape from that building, and we saw exactly what happened to her inside that building. Knowing what we know now, you'd think the memory Five found herself in would've been from one of Two's many sessions of being tortured. That, post-escape, it's maybe not happy times - that she'd be stressed about possibly getting caught, etc. - but still, she's gotten out of the building, she's killed almost all her tormentors except Rook, things are presumably looking up more than they ever have in her short miserable life to date, a sigh of relief would be understandable...now isn't it interesting, and heartbreaking, that that's Two's most vulnerable moment? That that as awful as it was for her inside Dwarf Star, the known aspect of that was still less frightening for her than being outside, alone, for the first time in her life?

Interesting observation on Two's memory. I guess that being out of Dwarf Star for the very first time, alone in a big bad world, must have been very frightening even for someone with Rebecca's capacities and theoretical knowledge. Killer or not, she should have felt very small in that instance.

Regarding Eric, see my response below.

On 31-8-2016 at 2:55 PM, sjohnson said:

Somehow I don't think Dwarf Star Technologies deems a non-compete, non-disclosure contract adequate to cover its exposure from a witness to crimes, especially if their personal role makes it pretty easy for prosecutors to cut a deal for testimony. On the other hand, the way Varrick kills people when he is disillusioned really is much more bad ass, much sexier than disgusting people like Eric (and One too for that matter.) 

Another, more interesting aspect is whether Eric ever felt guilty over releasing Rebecca, whenever he contemplated Portia Lin's career?

I also don't think anyone who works for Dwarf Star in a key position (and I would count anyone who is involved in forbidden research in that, as that would be very interesting info for both competitors and for the GA) can walk. The super-companies in Dark Matter are not like western companies today, they seem to be a cross between a Japanese or Korean business conglomerate (style Mitsubishi/Samsung) and a country run by warlords and criminals, complete with their own armed forces. If companies like Mikkei and Ferrous can effectively go to war with each other, how would either react if one of its employees wanted to leave to join the competitor?

As for guilt over Rebecca - it was Dwarf Stars "training program" that made her into Portia Lin. Not Eric's fault and not Rebecca's fault either. Moreover, if there had been no Portia Lin, there would be ample Wexlers or Corsos to fill in. The crew of the Raza might have been rotated even more, but jobs like the mining colony would continue with or without her.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Wouter

[sjohnson]

^^^From what I'm seeing, there's no one like Portia Lin. I'm pretty sure she was Darth Vader level of Bad. Ryo has ambitions of being Palpatine level of Bad but he ain't there yet.

[Black Knight]

On August 31, 2016 at 5:55 AM, sjohnson said:

Somehow I don't think Dwarf Star Technologies deems a non-compete, non-disclosure contract adequate to cover its exposure from a witness to crimes, especially if their personal role makes it pretty easy for prosecutors to cut a deal for testimony. On the other hand, the way Varrick kills people when he is disillusioned really is much more bad ass, much sexier than disgusting people like Eric (and One too for that matter.) 

Another, more interesting aspect is whether Eric ever felt guilty over releasing Rebecca, whenever he contemplated Portia Lin's career?

Except we learned this season that the GA is totally corrupt and won't do anything about the corporations - not only will they not do anything about the corporations, shutting down any investigation that could harm a corporation, they'll actively help murder people this or that corporation wants dead. Dwarf Star had nothing to fear from Eric in this regard. I brought up the non-compete non-disclosure thing in respect to the idea of an employee leaving who has industry knowledge that he could theoretically take to a competitor, which could be of concern to Dwarf Star without such an agreement in place. But they don't worry about being hauled in for crimes. It's not that kind of universe.

I didn't get the impression that Eric knew about Portia. Portia was unquestionably an awful criminal and quite notorious, particularly among fellow criminals, but she doesn't seem to have been well-known among the general population. She's able to go around space stations without people recognizing her - eating, drinking, visiting tourism bureaus (or whatever that place was she and Nyx went to, to learn what the building she had seen in her memory was).

But, you err in referring to Eric "releasing" Rebecca - which, huh? He didn't release her. She planned her escape on her own, and we saw that Eric was a wreck and in no shape to do anything about her...he had blood on him and was cowering against a wall, in a room of dead bodies. She's a freaking killing machine and damn near invincible: What was Eric possibly going to be able to do against her? He should, and clearly did, feel guilt over the way she was treated, which is what turned her into an almost completely sociopathic/psychopathic killing machine (I saw almost because we've had two instances of flashes of feeling for others - her choice to spare Eric and her choice to mod the Android in the way she did). But he had nothing to do with her release and he was in no position to stop it.

Ryo has ambitions of being Palpatine level of Bad but he ain't there yet.

Ryo did. Four doesn't. That's part of the reason he's not taken Ryo's memories even though he feels like he can't be of use to Zairon, which he wants to help, without those memories. He was disturbed in the previous episode to find that his parallel verse self had become one of the bloodiest emperors in Zairon's history, and to learn that he murdered his stepbrother after said stepbrother had helped him regain the throne, just because said stepbrother started making noises about democracy (presumably in reaction to Ryo's blood-soaked reign). Four does not want to be Ryo.

[Wouter]

10 hours ago, sjohnson said:

^^^From what I'm seeing, there's no one like Portia Lin. I'm pretty sure she was Darth Vader level of Bad. Ryo has ambitions of being Palpatine level of Bad but he ain't there yet.

It's rather commander Niemann who is at the Darth Vader level, as Ferrous' apparent go-to guy to run operations like the removal of pesky mining colonies. 

Note that when the Raza crew, under impulse from One and Six, decided to bail out on that operation in the pilot episode, Niemann directed forces of Ferrous Corp to do it themselves. He has no problem with replacing (and if necessary, killing) mercenaries who don't do their job properly (or at all).

In the recent alternate universe episode, it was also clear that between Wexler and Corso, nobody needs Portia Lin to do the dirty jobs. Though she would likely find a more subtle way to do it.