S02.E07: eps2.5_h4ndshake.sme

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Mr. Robot and Elliot try to get along; fsociety releases a holiday video to honor Uncle Sam; Darlene acts on an old desire.

 

[Rinaldo]

The list of guest stars included Brian Stokes Mitchell (the executive whose wife was murdered last year). Where did I miss seeing him?

[Melissa56789]

Amazing episode tonight.  Must watch again.

The big reveal at the end of this episode was well done - except for one thing little thing - Craig Robinson's character Ray.

One of my co-workers suggested the big reveal at the beginning of this season...however I felt that wouldn't work after the writers had those Ray scenes without Elliott...with Ray eating breakfast at home on dialysis with his dog.  The dog accompanying Ray at the basketball games.  And the Ray and his thug and the previous IT guy sequences without Elliott.....it is difficult to suspend belief and incorporate those storylines with the big reveal.

I wish at the end of the episode they included Ray sequences in the big reveal.

Spoiler

Like - was Ray a counselor/therapist at the facility? And those sequences above occurred outside the facility?  If they occurred outside the facility - where did Elliott get on the computer and migrate the Tor site?  The counselor's office in the facility or was Elliott transported outside?

[Melissa56789]

Quote

The list of guest stars included Brian Stokes Mitchell (the executive whose wife was murdered last year). Where did I miss seeing him?

They were guests at the party in the Danish/Swedish Wife's memory/dream sequence at the beginning of the episode when she put on those earrings.   (blink and you miss it)

[Rinaldo]

Thanks, Melissa. I did blink and missed it (we hadn't even seen the credits yet, right? so I hadn't started looking yet).

On your previous point, we're getting the reveal, but it was sort of interrupted by the end of the episode. I figure that it'll continue next week and we'll find out about Ray. But I'm imagining that he's a warden or guard -- someone with his own rooms there, who can take Elliot out of the general population if he chooses to, and has a henchman or two at his disposal. We'll see.

[Cardie]

I had bought into the "Elliot is institutionalized" theory once I heard about it but had always leaned toward a mental institution rather than a prison, right up to the time that the gang of angry white guys approached Elliot and started hurling racial slurs at Leon. I've seen that scenario in too many prison dramas. I am still confused about who Ray is. Elliot told us at the end that it all really happened, only the setting was faked. Ray must have been a guard, running this site out of the prison and letting prisoners, perhaps, set up things to occur on the outside or plan fun for their release. But I'm still not sure where the FBI swarmed into. I'm glad Ray repented his violence in the end. He seemed ready to run a con but not to hurt people.

So, with answers, more questions. What was Elliot in for? Did he get his release for helping the authorities bring Ray down or did Whiterose set it up? Did he really shoot Tyrell?

All in all, this ruse should not have taken up more than half the season, imo.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Cardie

[benteen]

Great episode.  I think the reveal worked out great at the end.  Still loving Angela's storyline and her rejecting Price was hilarious.

[kat165]

This is easily (so far) my favorite ep of the season. I wasn't bored the entire time and wished that it was even longer. I think it's probably the shortest ep we've had so far which sucks cause I was willing for it to go on a bit longer.

Not a fan of Angela, but her storyline tonight was really interesting. I enjoyed the meeting that she sat in on and when the others were dismissed and how her new boss handled her. "Enjoy the shrimp." She really isn't as smart as she thinks she is.

I was confused too as to whether Elliot's in prison or a mental institution. Although in an mi I don't think they get locked down in cells. What is he in for/why is he getting out? It can't be for killing Tyrell because it seems as though his whereabouts is still unknown. Looking forward to next week now and I haven't felt that way all season (so far).

[morgankobi]

That shrimp cocktail was almost as menacing as the glass of milk in Inglorious Basterds. Damn.

[tankgirl73]

Ahhhh we were right!!  Those of us on the "he's institutionalized and none of it is fully real" train can pump our fists and say "yes I knew it!"

Although in my case, I did not figure it out by myself. I read the theory here and became convinced of it about 2-3 episodes in, and since then analyze every episode with that interpretation.

The mistake was that most of us presumed some sort of mental institution, so jail was a good surprise.

I suspect Ray is a guard, a friendly guard, with a guard dog, who uses skilled inmates for his own purposes. Clearly the inmates use the site. Not sure about the FBI -- probably just other guards or officials, having been alerted to Ray's goings on. But possibly the real FBI, if the site was active in the outside world as well.

Now though, I have to re-watch the whole season to re-interpret everything according to the "jail" concept. It does make so much more sense than the mental institution, things fit so much better.

Big question remaining: what's he in jail for? Did he turn himself in? It's unlikely that it's related to anything with f-society... if he turned himself in after the hack, they'd know he was involved and they'd be constantly questioning him to get the other names... watching who comes to visit him...

And has already been mentioned, it can't be for murdering Tyler, because officially he's still only 'missing'.

So what did he get caught for?

[green]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

...

I was confused too as to whether Elliot's in prison or a mental institution. Although in an mi I don't think they get locked down in cells. What is he in for/why is he getting out? It can't be for killing Tyrell because it seems as though his whereabouts is still unknown. Looking forward to next week now and I haven't felt that way all season (so far).

A prison.  They all wore the standard orange jumpsuit prison uniforms complete with DOC (Dept of Corrections) on them.  That is if this is reality we saw at the end.  Elliot promises this will be the last time he screws over reality with us, his imaginary friend, but I'm starting to distrust his promises at this point.

Anyway, congrats to the people that called it that he wasn't really home.  They had me fooled because of all the other shots separate from Elliot  like Melissa56789 mentioned above. 

His paper with good news he shows the shrink seems to indicate to me that he is getting out (once we realize afterwards he is in prison to start with) so it couldn't be any major felony like taking down E Corp I guess.  Or killing Tyrell which I don't buy.  I think Tyrell is still alive and this killing him is some red herring to set up another surprise reveal.  Otherwise why is his wife divorcing a dead man and yes he could just be assumed to be MIA but he was Monopoly Guy at one point from what I remember.  And why continue with his wife's story if he isn't in the mix down the road.  He seems way to important to just let go via Elliot killing him with his popcorn gun.  Especially since we keep seeing him reach for the gun but never get around to even pointing it at him let alone pulling the trigger.  Sure Mr Robot said he did it but ... you know ... this show never seems to be what it seems.

Anyway back to prison.  Maybe Ray was a prison official running some illegal computer stuff like we saw -- "Only the setting was different" or something like that didn't Elliot say -- and Elliot was forced to help aka a Shawshank Redemption shout-out.  Guess they will tell us next week ... or not.

I'm really finding the character of Angela not too believable.  Is she playing E Corp or are they playing her?  Probably both but she is in over her head.  And yes she seems to have actually fallen to believe that rubbish that they value her given that scene with her father.  But the thing that bugs me the most is her long silent pauses complete with Elliot-like vacant stare which look out of character for her, well, "character."  Elliot, yes.  He is the consummate geek and batsh*t crazy besides.  But she isn't so to do the Elliot vacant stare bit for seconds on end just doesn't feel a right acting choice and it pulls me out of the show every time I see that posturing. 

Sorry, had to get that off my chest.  (Anyone notice her new office area looks eerily similar to Allsafe's old office?  That can't just be cheap set re-cycling).

Edited August 18, 2016 by green

[Cardie]

Since the show is taking place in the summer of 2015, they can have fun with hindsight, such as when one of the risk managers says they might have something big brewing over water quality in Flint, Michigan.

[placate]

Why is Ray using the white prisoners as enforcers when they seem fine to throw around racial slurs? I agree he might be a guard, but wouldn't he prefer brute strength that isn't going to call him names behind his back? Congrats to everyone who called Elliot being locked up! I've just been imagining Oz if the common room always played Seinfeld reruns.

[patty1h]

Am I misunderstanding Leon's statement -- is he implying that White rose has been compensating him for providing protection for Elliot?

[green]

11 minutes ago, patty1h said:

Am I misunderstanding Leon's statement -- is he implying that White rose has been compensating him for providing protection for Elliot?

Yes he seems to be implying it.  Whether true or not of course we don't know.  But Elliot would certainly need protection in prison given his lack of social skills. 

If White Rose wants to save Elliot for continuing to use him further in the ongoing hack/revolution -- what to speak of the multi-layers of schemes White Rose has going on that Elliot doesn't even know about -- then I guess it would make perfect sense he'd have someone inside looking after him.

[AliShibaz]

9 hours ago, Cardie said:

So, with answers, more questions. What was Elliot in for? Did he get his release for helping the authorities bring Ray down or did Whiterose set it up? Did he really shoot Tyrell?

There was a previous episode in which Elliot explained that he was left alone all weekend to monitor some terminals at AllSafe and he went a little crazy and damaged some equipment and got into trouble with the law for that. Sorry I don't remember which episode offhand.

But I have a question too. When Dom tells Angela, "whatever this is, it's not you." Can anyone guess what that means? It's likely a law enforcement type trick. It certainly is not the truth. Dom told her two other things that were clearly lies. Remember? "This is nothing official so don't worry ... " "this is cards on the table honest ... "

Edited August 18, 2016 by AliShibaz

[morgankobi]

The AllSafe servers where he went "crazy" was from early in his career there-he tells Darlene about it in the flashback when she comes into town. It's likely he's in jail because his therapist's (Christa?) boyfriend actually went to the police, as he said he would, over Elliot hacking his phone and perhaps stealing his dog. Lower-level crime that would keep him off the radar from the FBI.

The White Power (likely) group wasn't working for Ray, they were mad because they had money/items tied up in the show's Silk Road and blamed Elliot that it was gone.

E-coin is now major currency. I'm wondering if White Rose is helping this along so she can then hack and wipe out/steal most all of the E-coin and really cripple the world/US. Either way, her long-game is not Price's.

Edited August 18, 2016 by morgankobi
pronoun

[Neurochick]

7 hours ago, placate said:

Why is Ray using the white prisoners as enforcers when they seem fine to throw around racial slurs? I agree he might be a guard, but wouldn't he prefer brute strength that isn't going to call him names behind his back? Congrats to everyone who called Elliot being locked up! I've just been imagining Oz if the common room always played Seinfeld reruns.

I don't think the white prisoners were Ray's enforcers, I think they were other inmates who were making money off the site.  I think Ray is a guard.

[BaseOps]

Absolutely loved last night's episode. It was the best of the season so far. The reveal at the ending threw me through a major loop - part of me expected it, but not in that moment. I'm really eager to see everything unravel next week now. 

[benteen]

Also, the prisoners referred to him as "Ray" making me think he's a guard instead of a warden.  A warden would probably be referred to by his title or last name. 

Quote

Not a fan of Angela, but her storyline tonight was really interesting. I enjoyed the meeting that she sat in on and when the others were dismissed and how her new boss handled her. "Enjoy the shrimp." She really isn't as smart as she thinks she is.

Angela completely lacks subtlety in her actions.  It might also help if she changed her facial expression.  She's had that same suspicious, hundred yard stare on her face since last season.

Edited August 18, 2016 by benteen

[Neurochick]

To me, Angela always looks uptight and like she's hiding something.  I thought it was interesting when Dom told her, "whatever this is, it's not you."  

What threw me about the "Elliot is institutionalized" theory was that scene with Ray getting dialysis.  If that was real, then I take back what I said about Ray being a guard, he's probably another prisoner, someone high up on the prison food chain, like a drug kingpin or something.  

Edited August 18, 2016 by Neurochick

[yourmomiseasy]

My dog spilled soda on my Tivo remote, so I can't go back and verify, but I'm pretty sure there's a scene of Ray wearing an orange jumpsuit in Elliot's therapy group during the reveal, implying he's a prisoner.

[Avaleigh]

Great episode. I've actually been loving this season even though it's been a slow build. There isn't anything like this show on television. It's the only show that's managed to tear me away from the Olympics. 

The most interesting moment for me was the flashback of Price introducing Sharon Knowles as his 'silent partner in crime'. I wonder if some part of him was angry on a personal level as well for what happened there. What's also interesting is that Price says in the flashback that there's no way that Tyrell is getting that CTO position unless something happens to Terry Colby. Scott Knowles isn't considered to be a candidate for the CTO position at all. Price very much indicates in front of Scott that Tyrell would be his choice if anything were to happen to Colby. 

12 hours ago, morgankobi said:

That shrimp cocktail was almost as menacing as the glass of milk in Inglorious Basterds. Damn.

It was. He sends everyone else away, he makes a comment about how she must have sucked somebody's cock to be where she currently is, and says that Price has given him permission to treat her however he likes. Then she has a big plate of shrimp cocktail shoved in her face. Subtle that shit was not.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

To me, Angela always looks uptight and like she's hiding something.  I thought it was interesting when Dom told her, "whatever this is, it's not you."  

What threw me about the "Elliot is institutionalized" theory was that scene with Ray getting dialysis.  If that was real, then I take back what I said about Ray being a guard, he's probably another prisoner, someone high up on the prison food chain, like a drug kingpin or something.  

YES!  I didn't even think about this but it would make sense.  Ray is a prison who has a lot of money and influence over guards (his henchman is probably a guard).  A rich and connected prisoner running that kind of website would make a lot more sense than a guard.  If that's what it is.

Also, a guard running an illicit website out of a prison instead of at his home would make no sense whatsoever.  A guard having that kind of money wouldn't work either.

Edited August 18, 2016 by benteen

[Neurochick]

My biggest surprise this episode was finding out that Leon was real.  

[tankgirl73]

Now the season re-watch begins with the new information. Right off the bat I notice, "there's only guys around, no girls". Well there's that female guard who is his "mom". I start to wonder if that will hold up, if that was a clue all along. But then there's "Hot Carla" -- the girl who's always burning things by the basketball game. She burned stuff for him in this most recent episode too. So... what is she? "She's become my personal totem" he says in the first episode. Is she imaginary? Is she a cross-dresser inmate?

ETA: this rewatch is going to be amazing. In the first session with his therapist, after he describes his loop, his day, to her, she asks "why your mom? Why her specifically?" At the time, we thought she meant "why are you living with her" but IN FACT she meant "why have you superimposed the image of your mom onto the guard?"  He answers "she's the strictest person I know." "But isn't she responsible for a lot of your childhood trauma?" "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

Totally different read on that scene now. Wow.

Edited August 18, 2016 by tankgirl73

[Miles]

I heard about the theory that Elliot might be in prison or a mental institution a while ago, and I'm a bit sad about it. I was so proud of myself when I figured out that Mr. Robot was in Elliot's mind, pretty early on in season one. Now I'll never know if I would have figured out this one on my own.

So I guess the Ray thing happened before Elliot got to prison and it's the reason why he is there? And I guess Elliot splice the Ray-stuff into hsi prison routine to make sense of it and cope. But that makes the whole thing increadibly weird and hard to wrap your head around. Because that means the understanding he and Mr. Robot came to happened before he got in there, yet Elliot is doing his regiment to get rid of him in prison? Or did Elliot forget again and had to relive it to go back to that place where he and Mr. Robot were working together? That's the only thing I can think off, but it still doesn't feel quite right. Does anybody else have a better explaination?

Some people here think Ray was a guard, but there are a lot of things that don't fit. But the thing that confirms he's not is that Elliot's wounds have healed at the end of the episode. That means quite some time has passed since the beating happened. Also if this all happened in prison then what is Elliot in prison for?

Edit: He still has his injuries when he gets threatened by the rapist guy and they don't seem to have healed at all, but he doesn't have them anymore in the scene in the "church" where he talks to Mr. Robot, yet it seems like it happens quite soon after. Especially since the scene where the guy tries to rape him happens soon after that and I wouldn't think months would elapse between the guy threatening him and actually hurting Elliot. I think the injuries go away in the church, because Elliot now accepts reality, which is reflected in the converation he has with Mr. Robot.

Also that bitcoin thing the rapist guy was on about makes no sense. That site was just a market place, it wouldn't have had anything to do with anybodies bitcoin wallets, except maybe Ray's. But I guess this might have been some part of Elliot's imagination and the real beef was about something else?

I guess Tyrel is probably dead. Unless Mr. Robot is lying now, but why would he? But then the question becomes why is Joanna paying off that guy where Tyrel's car is parked.

 

8 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

There was a previous episode in which Elliot explained that he was left alone all weekend to monitor some terminals at AllSafe and he went a little crazy and damaged some equipment and got into trouble with the law for that. Sorry I don't remember which episode offhand.

It wasn't allsafe, it was his previous job. They also locked him in the server room. I still don't quite get why he got court mendated therapy for that. Trashing a room somebody imprisoned you in seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to me, but not being american I don't 100% get the american justice system, so maybe that is something that would happen.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Miles

[Cardie]

17 minutes ago, Miles said:

So I guess the Ray thing happened before Elliot got to prison and it's the reason why he is there?

No, it happened while Elliot was in prison, with Ray someone who could get inmates to do his bidding and had computer access, either a guard or a prisoner with lots of street cred who could bribe guards to let him do his thing. The best guess on why Elliot is there would come from the person who suggested that the man from whom Elliot took Flipper--who was married but hitting on Krista--turned him in as he threatened to do late last season. (That might explain why Krista has agreed to treat him despite being so angry at his hacking her boyfriend. She feels somewhat responsible for his plight.) Hacking is a crime in the US but most people could probably take a plea and avoid jail time. I suspect Elliot needed the regimented, enforced non-access to computers and pleaded guilty to a jail-sentence offense. But I could see an early release for that sort of crime. 

Elliot says that everything he has told us happened; it just didn't happen in the places we saw it happen and prisoners weren't dressed like prisoners.

[thuganomics85]

So, that was a crazy reveal.  Elliot has been in prison this entire time, and all of his scenes basically played out the same normally, only with changes to make it look like normal, everyday places, instead of prison.  Well, that's certainly one way to make me rewatch this season and see it with this knowledge now.  I bet they dropped plenty of hints.  I guess my biggest questions are what is Elliot in for (it sounds like he will be released soon, so clearly nothing bad like murder or any real felony), and more about Ray.  I'm guessing Ray was either a guard or prisoner with a lot of power, that had access to things like computers and whatnot.  But is the dog real?  That is my biggest question!

At least Leon is not only real, but apparently was hired by White Rose to protect Elliot in prison.  Glad he was around.  Really didn't want to see Elliot get raped.

Besides all that, we've got Angela convincing Price to move her to risk management, only to deal with a boss over there who really, really doesn't like her.  She really needs to work at playing this game.  Especially since Dom is already zoning in on her.

Darlene and F-Society now are in the FBI server, so I'm sure plenty of fun will be had!

Joanna is finally preparing to divorce Tyrell and try and make it happen with her current boyfriend.  So, I'm guessing this means Tyrell might be returning soon.  Unless he's dead.  I did like the flashback to when they met the couple they majorly screwed over last season.

[Miles]

24 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Elliot says that everything he has told us happened; it just didn't happen in the places we saw it happen and prisoners weren't dressed like prisoners.

Yes, everything he told us happened. But he never said it happened in the order we saw.

There are quite a lot of things that don't add up with Ray being a guard or an inmate. I already mentioned Ellit's wounds. Others: Where would an inmate get a dog. Even guards don't have dogs in prisons. Would a hardened criminal really get cold feet and when he looked at his own site and let Elliot do what he did? How would they be able to drag Elliot out of the prison infirmary and into that "basement"? Even if they have one guard in on it I don't see that happening.

I might be overthinking this. Maybe between minute 28 and minute 32 in the episode months passed for Elliot and that's how his injuries healed, but it does seem weird. At least something doesn't add up chronologically here. Because we have seen people from the outside interact with Elliot when he was inside. So unless we have a big timejump next episode, it doesn't fit.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Miles

[kat165]

I concur with the Ray is a guard theory.

About that prison, that is the cleanest looking prison I've ever seen depicted on tv (not that I've been to a real prison to confirm) which to me was glaring. What's up with that?

Green, thank you for the insight as to what was in that paper he handed to the shrink. I guess she's forgiven him because she seemed quite pleased for him and eager to continue his therapy outside the
prison.

I too think Tyrell is still alive (or at least I hope he is). His wife's story still seems totally pointless. And there was something fishy about her bday gift to her bf. He just wanted to her to accompany him to a party. He didn't seem to want something more serious/permanent that would warrant divorse proceedings as a gift. Speaking of the wife, that intro with her being splashed with paint was powerful. And I'm so glad that they muted her screen!

"Popcorn gun" - hilarious. Thanks for that, green.

And yes, Angela's vacant stare is beyond annoying. She just annoys me in general and her acting choices
contribute to that.

Ali, if Elliot's in for the mess he made at his previous job, it seems like a long time has passed since that happened so I'm wondering if that's not why he's incarcerated. I don't think it's fsociety related either.

About what Dom said to Angela, I think Dom realizes that Angela is not bright enough to have pulled off the hack by herself.  Angela always comes off as more vacant than clever. She seems to use her wide-eyed vacant stare to stall when she can't think of a comeback. Problem is that she doesn't seem to be thinking at all.

Morgan, good theory about the shrink's ex-bf and the dog stealing. That would be minor enough for him to be getting out so seemingly quickly/easily. Also good theory about the white power bullies. Neurochick, I think you've got it right about the enforcers not working for Ray. Maybe Elliot is getting out for helping them catch Ray? Another thing about that FBI takedown scene. Elliot obviously had just come from Ray's and yet the FBI stormed passed him/ignored him. That seemed off too.

Yourmom, that pan of the group went by so quickly I couldn't catch if that was Ray or not in the orange jumpsuit or just some random black guy.

I'm also suspicious of how easily Leon was able to disable and mutilate that gang who was beating up on Elliot. All the knife slices were so LOUD. Something unreal about that whole scene.

[scrb]

Elliot wouldn't have access to computers in prison.  And if he's been in prison all this time, would a hacker necessarily be in the same prison as inmates who probably committed violent crimes?

Didn't Darlene visit him so that he could program the FBI hack with their improvised stingray device?

[Miles]

3 minutes ago, scrb said:

Didn't Darlene visit him so that he could program the FBI hack with their improvised stingray device?

I actually had completely forgotten about that one. That actually makes me think that the whole thing with Ray did happen in prison. Because the visit happened in prison and how else would Elliot have gotten to a computer unless Ray was a guard or maybe a social worker in the prison. I guess social worker works best. He kinda gave off that vibe and maybe in that capacity he would be allowed to bring a dog.

Still, that whole thing doesn't quite add up. I hope they'll explain it a bit better next episode, but I doubt they will.

[hnygrl]

Man, those white supremacists were gonna RAPE Elliot!  That happens in prison all to often because in spite of cameras? There are dead spots. And most prisons are so NOISY most of the time that it is possible that you wouldn't hear Elliot's yells before the guy put his hand over his mouth.

Leon. Coolest dude on the planet. I love me some Leon. And most importantly:

We forget the coolest part: Leon was in prison to protect Elliot. He was told to protect Elliot by....wait for it....WHITEROSE!! Whom I believe still is the leader of the dark army. What the heck is up with that? Elliot? Being protected by (sorta) the Dark Army? WHY???? Can't  wait to find that one out.

The only reason I can think of for Tyrell's wifey to still be on screen is the sexy bits they throw in every episode. Get rid of her. She's useless to the storyline.

Same with Angela. WHY IS SHE HERE? Other than Elliot being stuck on her, she's dumb as a bag of rocks. Too stupid to see that she's a pet, not an equal. I'm already sick of her, and the new boss man telling her the big boss man told him to do whatever he wanted to do with her just seals it. She's so typically blonde stupid it's disgusting. There had better be a really really REALLY good reason to subject us to her idiocy week after week...

And some prisons do have dogs. Really. They use them to keep the inmates in line, to search for contraband/drugs, and to guard the perimeters. You're not likely to jump over fence #1 to get to the outside fence if there's a big ass DOG there barking and salivating, waiting to eat you.

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

How would they be able to drag Elliot out of the prison infirmary and into that "basement"? Even if they have one guard in on it I don't see that happening.

They showed an ordinary prison cell morphing into the "basement." I think they probably put Elliot into solitary, where his wounds healed while he was there. Esmail has promised we'll see the true story of Ray later on, so I'm not overly concerned right now.

[possibilities]

I think Tyrell's wife might be using the divorce filing as a stalling tactic. She wants her boyfriend to take care of her and keep her sexed up til Tyrell comes back. Who sent her that silver rattle for the baby last week? She looked so relieved when she saw it-- I thought it was a sign to her that Tyrell is still alive. Also, why would they keep her on the show if Tyrell is really gone? I don't think she bought the rattle herself, because she seemed to not know what would be in the package, and also we know she's running out of money. And she doesn't want to be seen in public with the boyfriend because she doesn't want anyone to know what she's doing.

The dog could be a guard dog, a therapy dog, or one of those dogs that are trained inside prisons. There's a whole organization that places dogs inside prisons, to get trained for other jobs like "service dog"-- they have prisoners do the training, so the presence of a dog doesn't prove one way or the other if Ray is inmate or staff. I was thinking that he's staff because of his access to computer, but he could also be a prisoner who has access via some kind of bribe or other scheme.

Why would White Rose NOT protect Elliot? Elliot is an asset who could become a liability if he talks.

I hope Angela has a long game going, and is not just a cocky dimwit. Her total coldness to her father to me suggests she DOES have a plan, because I don't think she would be that cold to him for real. Her going from idealistic and naive to deathly cold and full of herself that fast, just because she got offered a job and felt valued by the suits who she ha spent her whole life hating because they killed her mother? Power may corrupt, but this is waaaaaay out of character. So hopefully it's not how it looks.

I hope Dom is a mole/part of fsociety or the Dark Army or something. The fact that she survived that massacre seems less credible to me than most things on this show. And her not insisting on questioning Angela more is plain negligent. I just don't buy that she'd let it go that easily.

[AliShibaz]

I'm really enjoying this thread. So many great opinions and theories. I love that people tend to respect each other and there is no quarreling or name calling. People here actually try to help each other to find the truth and develop theories. So unusual for the Internet. Seems to me that you people have a real gem of a forum here.

I don't know what to make of the way time passes in these episodes. I see many people trying to make sense of how quickly or slowly Elliot's injuries heal and try to link that to other events to make conclusions.

I'm getting the feeling this show runner is producing something here that is quite different than most other TV shows. It seems to be highly artistic and he seems to take a great deal of license with many of the facts and events. Could it be true that he intends to put together something that is a work of art more so than something factual and that people will be able to discuss and debate exactly how the timeline fits but we just may never be able to be certain about these things? Is it possible that many events will be left open to multiple interpretations?

I didn't watch much of Twin Peaks. But as I understand, it was also highly artistic and much of it was left to the viewer's imagination. I wonder if this show may represent a change in direction for TV shows in the future. Mr. Esmail may well be a real visionary and a leader in the direction of TV. This episode and the reveal seem to bring that home for me.

If you have ever read any of James Joyce's novels, you may get the feeling (like I do) that if James Joyce had ever written for TV, he would have produced something very much like Mr. Robot. I get the feeling that Sam Esmail's talent may well be very similar to James Joyce's talent. IMHO, both of them are real literary geniuses. It may be too soon to make such a statement about Mr. Esmail. But I just get a real strong feeling that it may well be the truth.

Edited August 21, 2016 by AliShibaz

[yourmomiseasy]

3 hours ago, kat165 said:

I concur with the Ray is a guard theory.

About that prison, that is the cleanest looking prison I've ever seen depicted on tv (not that I've been to a real prison to confirm) which to me was glaring. What's up with that?

Green, thank you for the insight as to what was in that paper he handed to the shrink. I guess she's forgiven him because she seemed quite pleased for him and eager to continue his therapy outside the
prison.

I too think Tyrell is still alive (or at least I hope he is). His wife's story still seems totally pointless. And there was something fishy about her bday gift to her bf. He just wanted to her to accompany him to a party. He didn't seem to want something more serious/permanent that would warrant divorse proceedings as a gift. Speaking of the wife, that intro with her being splashed with paint was powerful. And I'm so glad that they muted her screen!

"Popcorn gun" - hilarious. Thanks for that, green.

And yes, Angela's vacant stare is beyond annoying. She just annoys me in general and her acting choices
contribute to that.

Ali, if Elliot's in for the mess he made at his previous job, it seems like a long time has passed since that happened so I'm wondering if that's not why he's incarcerated. I don't think it's fsociety related either.

About what Dom said to Angela, I think Dom realizes that Angela is not bright enough to have pulled off the hack by herself.  Angela always comes off as more vacant than clever. She seems to use her wide-eyed vacant stare to stall when she can't think of a comeback. Problem is that she doesn't seem to be thinking at all.

Morgan, good theory about the shrink's ex-bf and the dog stealing. That would be minor enough for him to be getting out so seemingly quickly/easily. Also good theory about the white power bullies. Neurochick, I think you've got it right about the enforcers not working for Ray. Maybe Elliot is getting out for helping them catch Ray? Another thing about that FBI takedown scene. Elliot obviously had just come from Ray's and yet the FBI stormed passed him/ignored him. That seemed off too.

Yourmom, that pan of the group went by so quickly I couldn't catch if that was Ray or not in the orange jumpsuit or just some random black guy.

I'm also suspicious of how easily Leon was able to disable and mutilate that gang who was beating up on Elliot. All the knife slices were so LOUD. Something unreal about that whole scene.

My remote dried out, so I was able to work the DVR again and rewatch.  Too be honest it was quick and dark, so I couldn't really see the face, but thought the voice sounded like Ray, but on second watch it was not.

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why would White Rose NOT protect Elliot? Elliot is an asset who could become a liability if he talks.

If there was really concern about him talking, killing him in prison would be the way to go, according to my knowledge of TV prisons and TV murder schemes.  

[possibilities]

29 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

If there was really concern about him talking, killing him in prison would be the way to go

Good point. I guess that makes him an asset.

[Chaos Theory]

Yes the super secret reveals are cool and all that but what I like best about the show is that no one is abysmally stupid.  I think my favorite two scenes were when Dom was talking to Angela and when Angela was letting Darlene know she figured out what was going on.  I love Angela and I think she is among the more fascinating characters on the show.  I am pretty sure I am in the minority on that.  Angela is the kind of character that attracts a lot of haters but I love her.  I thought the scene with her father was awesome as well.  Well acted by both parties.  I think Angela is smarter then people give her credit for and I think wanting to be acknowledged is ultimately what drives her.  And is ultimately what I find fascinating.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Primetimer]

The heroes share more than just awkwardness. Whose show works the cringe best?

View the full article

[tankgirl73]

New question: What does the episode description have to do with the episode?

"fsociety releases a holiday video to honor Uncle Sam; Darlene acts on an old desire."

And I'm pretty sure I heard someone say something about a few weeks passing, so that explains the injuries healing. I don't remember where it was, but I noticed it at the time.

[Anela]

I'm going to have to watch this when I'm more awake. I could not focus on what was going on. 

[green]

12 hours ago, Miles said:

Also that bitcoin thing the rapist guy was on about makes no sense. That site was just a market place, it wouldn't have had anything to do with anybodies bitcoin wallets, except maybe Ray's. But I guess this might have been some part of Elliot's imagination and the real beef was about something else?

I guess Tyrel is probably dead. Unless Mr. Robot is lying now, but why would he? But then the question becomes why is Joanna paying off that guy where Tyrel's car is parked.

 

Actually almost all transactions on the dark web they said are made in bitcoins.  Ray would have only taken a percentage cut of the transactions at his marketplace site.  The bulk of bitcoin exchange would have involved buyers and sellers so Elliot taking it down screwed over lots of these people.  And I agree I think Tyrell is alive.

11 hours ago, kat165 said:

Neurochick, I think you've got it right about the enforcers not working for Ray. Maybe Elliot is getting out for helping them catch Ray? Another thing about that FBI takedown scene. Elliot obviously had just come from Ray's and yet the FBI stormed passed him/ignored him. That seemed off too.

We saw the armed FBI agents with the vests storm past Elliot but the agent or whoever that was in the suit and tie does stop Elliot telling him to hold up and not be leaving.

11 hours ago, scrb said:

Elliot wouldn't have access to computers in prison.  And if he's been in prison all this time, would a hacker necessarily be in the same prison as inmates who probably committed violent crimes?

Didn't Darlene visit him so that he could program the FBI hack with their improvised stingray device?

Yes a hacker would be in the general population.  Heck, civil rights activists and anti-war resisters were always put in the general population where they suffered endless beatings and rapes back in the day.  Aside from some special individuals like known very violent and out of control disputer types the only two "categories" of prisoners I know of in modern prisons that are officially segregated from the time they enter are child molesters and former law enforcement officers since those classes are the most hated by the other prisoners.

11 hours ago, Miles said:

I actually had completely forgotten about that one. That actually makes me think that the whole thing with Ray did happen in prison. Because the visit happened in prison and how else would Elliot have gotten to a computer unless Ray was a guard or maybe a social worker in the prison. I guess social worker works best. He kinda gave off that vibe and maybe in that capacity he would be allowed to bring a dog.

Still, that whole thing doesn't quite add up. I hope they'll explain it a bit better next episode, but I doubt they will.

I like that idea.  Ray does say during his last chess game with Elliot that he thought he would be Elliot's savior but in the end it was Elliot who saved him (by stopping him continuing is what I think he alluded to).  To say he thought he would be Elliot's savior makes Ray even more mysterious.  Maybe not a social worker but maybe more than just a dark net denizen only.

10 hours ago, hnygrl said:

The only reason I can think of for Tyrell's wifey to still be on screen is the sexy bits they throw in every episode. Get rid of her. She's useless to the storyline.

Not if Tyrell is still alive.  And I think he is.  So do some others here.  As mentioned above she seems to keep getting several packages that may well be from him.  She speaks into the phone that was taped on the bottom of one package asking to just hear his voice even.

If Elliot actually killed him with his popcorn gun his body would have already have been found on Coney Island or traces of blood there.  Elliot wakes up in Tyrell's SUV at that parking lot 3 days later not knowing what actually happened.  Next thing we see is that Tyrell's wife is paying off the parking attendant there until she has to "silence" him when she runs out of money. 

Maybe the attendant saw Tyrell getting out of the SUV during that 3 day gap in Elliot's memory.  I mean the cops could easily track the SUV down once Tyrell is proclaimed the head of f.society to the world.  So my guess is they do have the SUV by now and there is no blood there either.  Elliot doesn't strike me as being together enough to be able to get rid of blood that thoroughly.  Or Mr Robot even.  Takes more than bleach to hide stuff like that from forensics.

And wasn't Tyrell behind the mask that demanded E Corp bring the cash to the park or wherever it was and burn the money publicly?  That was after the 3 day gap in Elliot's memory. 

We also got the flashback to Tyrell and his wife when he was first hired for some reason as well this episode setting up something down the road.  It all adds up to Tyrell and his wife both being major players in the story line to me.

Want to give props to those citing the shrink's ex-boyfriend as the person possibly being behind Elliot's arrest.  They showed that whole scene of him telling her he had fingered Elliot to the police near the end of the last episode last season for some reason.  This could well be the reason.  Or not.  This show, you never know.  But the ex-boyfriend must figure into something given that scene.

Hey wild spec regards Tyrell. We see Elliot reach for the gun.  Other than Tyrell overpowering him and knocking him out for three days what else could have happened if Elliot didn't kill him?  Maybe taken him prisoner and Darlene is using him as the front for the group now?  Nay, that makes no sense.  I got nothing. 

But Tyrell just seems the key to this season so far.  Whatever my guesses of specifics I will be wrong no doubt but he just seems like the key to this all being kind of the bridge between the worlds of E Corp and f.society as he is.  Or rather forced by his firing to move across the bridge from E Corp to f.society and to his perceived future as a major deity.

He and White Rose who Elliot met in person in that shop before the hack. They both know who Elliot is.  The only 2 outside f.society that seem to know he is behind the hack.  Well Angela the Slow On The Uptake seemed to finally catch on this episode so her too now.  I don't think Price knows because I think White Rose is playing all sides and wouldn't give out info he doesn't have to.  Unless Price is playing him.  Arrrggghhhh, my head is hurting from all this.

Edited August 19, 2016 by green

[AliShibaz]

18 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Yes the super secret reveals are cool and all that but what I like best about the show is that no one is abysmally stupid.  I think my favorite two scenes were when Dom was talking to Angela and when Angela was letting Darlene know she figured out what was going on.  I love Angela and I think she is among the more fascinating characters on the show.  I am pretty sure I am in the minority on that.  Angela is the kind of character that attracts a lot of haters but I love her.  I thought the scene with her father was awesome as well.  Well acted by both parties.  I think Angela is smarter then people give her credit for and I think wanting to be acknowledged is ultimately what drives her.  And is ultimately what I find fascinating.

If anyone wants proof as to just how clever Angela is, consider the scene when Dom asks Angela what she was doing on that restricted floor and Angela throws the incident about the FBI doofus trying to hit on her into Dom's face. I know that most people would be shaking in their boots when confronted by an FBI agent after having just planted a hack that "owned" the FBI. But Angela was supremely cool and collected and truly outsmarted Dom. I loved that scene and I've always loved Angela. She is one of the most savy chars on the show. She may not have the technical smarts or abilities that others have. But there is just no way one can put a price on her ability to think on her feet like that. She's supremely smart. Also, just consider what she is doing in E Corp to try and get some revenge for them killing her mother. It's amazing!

 

23 hours ago, Miles said:

Also that bitcoin thing the rapist guy was on about makes no sense. That site was just a market place, it wouldn't have had anything to do with anybodies bitcoin wallets, except maybe Ray's. But I guess this might have been some part of Elliot's imagination and the real beef was about something else?

I guess Tyrel is probably dead. Unless Mr. Robot is lying now, but why would he? But then the question becomes why is Joanna paying off that guy where Tyrel's car is parked.

Wouldn't the site need access to a seller's wallet in order to place the money into their account?

When making a purchase, a buyer can choose on the fly which instrument they wish to use to pay.  So the site has no need to store any permanent info about their account numbers. They can use a different account or different method every time they make a new purchase. But when they make a purchase, the seller is not available. So the site needs to keep a record of where the money is to be sent. In other words, it needs to know some way to identify their bit coin wallet and deposit the funds there. The preceding sentence(s) may shound like I'm trying to present you with facts. But it's really just my opinion. It's just my best guess as to how the thing has to work. I'd like to hear from anyone who knows for certain how such an arrangement would work.

I can understand why it wouldn't need to store any info about the buyer's wallet after verifying the money was available and transferring that money to the seller's wallet. But it would need to retain the info about the seller's wallet in order to make deposits every time a transaction was intitiated by a buyer. Would it not?

[green]

32 minutes ago, AliShibaz said:

If anyone wants proof as to just how clever Angela is, consider the scene when Dom asks Angela what she was doing on that restricted floor and Angela throws the incident about the FBI doofus trying to hit on her into Dom's face. I know that most people would be shaking in their boots when confronted by an FBI agent after having just planted a hack that "owned" the FBI. But Angela was supremely cool and collected and truly outsmarted Dom. I loved that scene and I've always loved Angela. She is one of the most savy chars on the show. She may not have the technical smarts or abilities that others have. But there is just no way one can put a price on her ability to think on her feet like that. She's supremely smart. Also, just consider what she is doing in E Corp to try and get some revenge for them killing her mother. It's amazing!

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree.  Honestly I just think she is being played.  No way does Dom buy her story about setting up a date.  Dom had a hard time keeping a straight face with that answer.  Dom didn't buy it at all.  Just realized she could use the male FBI agent to learn more about her is all.  She knows.  She told Angela she doesn't think she is behind the E Corp hack but basically that she knows that Angela probably does know who they are.  She tells her guys to check the terminal Angela was using but said Angela probably cleaned up after so they won't get any hard evidence but Dom knows Angela is her key to it all.  She just has to handle her the right way to get the info.

And Price seems to be using her and isn't fooled a bit as to what she wants.  Half trying to seduce her with power; half trying to intimidate her.  Both he and the FBI are after f.society and she is their key to finding them.  To arrest or to turn and use as the case may be.  Still don't know if Price was involved through White Rose in using f.society (unknown to the hackers of course)  for his benefit from the start or not.  Price is still the most mysterious of the players for me right now.

[AliShibaz]

You may very well be correct.  I do hope the show will reveal the truth - one way or another - and will not leave us hanging in the lurch.

Even if Dom doesn't believe Angela is innocent, I believe it was sublimely clever of Angela to come up with that excuse when she was being pressed by an  FBI agent. She displayed a remarkable ability to think on her feet and come up with an excuse (even if it was mostly true).  I think she did it better than probably 99 out of 100 other people (including me) could have done.

But, I believe it will be exciting (as well as a great deal of fun) to find out just who is playing whom. In the meantime, I will cling to my opinion that Angela will outfox all the other foxes in this story.

Cheers to you!

 

I was very struck with the scene where some woman splashes red paint on Joanna.

They showed a closeup of her mouth as she screamed something (probably "Help"?). I was struck by the look of her mouth and teeth. I have to wonder if they somehow enhanced that shot. I don't think it's likely they used some kind of computer enhancement. But her teeth were so exteme looking that I feel like calling her "Jaws" from now on. She looked like some kind of monster.

I remember seeing some images of horrible fish creatures that live in the depths of the oceans and it seems as if most of their bodies consisted of huge elongated teeth. I'm not trying to be funny or to insult the actress. But, Holey Moley! I have never before seen teeth that appear so extreme. I suppose it has to be in my imagination. But I would love to know what was in the mind of the show runner when he decided to show her mouth and teeth for an extra long amount of time and accompany that shot with silence. We can't really know for certain just what it is she is screaming. But the look on her face and the look of her teeth tie in with her murderous personality and to my mind, they mark her as a horribly cruel predator and tie her Sado-Masochistic sexual behavior together with her murders.

All I'm trying to say is that brief scene was chilling. Absolutely chilling! I think the cinematographer did a beautiful job on that scene. I'll never forget that look! As long as I live, that scene will figure prominently in my nightmares.

People have been guessing just what happened to Tyrell. After seeing that shot, I would have to guess that she ate him. At least that she murdered him somehow. She has a very strong motive. She has a baby and needs his insurance money or settlement package. He was just fired and murdering him could be viewed as her best opportunity to get enough money to care for herself and her baby. After all, she no longer wants to be married to a man like Tyrell. She said words to that effect several episodes ago.

Edited August 19, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Chaos Theory]

I think everyone is being played on this show.  Everyone is being played and everyone is a player.  Including Angela.  It is easy to see the people who are trying to play her.  They are all around her and some of them are quite obvious about it.  I think some of it comes from people underestimating her.  They are quite surprised when she calls them on it.  What game Angela is playing is harder to figure ouu but I think there is a game.

[loki567]

I wasn't crazy about the reveal. The logic doesn't make sense to me. Ray's a prisoner or guard who runs a dark web site, the contents which were unknown to him? He's apparently got enough sway to run a prison but one look at said website's enough for him to give up his criminal ways? 

And I just don't really see a benefit for the story. We already know that Elliot can have vivid hallucinations that override his real world. It's a bit of a so what? at this point. They're getting close to that line of the, "audience has to doubt everything," which is something Sam Esmail specifically talked about NOT wanting to do. 

Unfortunately, I don't think Portia Doubleday has enough gravitas to anchor the E-Corp side of the story. She's very one-note. 

[AliShibaz]

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think everyone is being played on this show.  Everyone is being played and everyone is a player.  Including Angela.  It is easy to see the people who are trying to play her.  They are all around her and some of them are quite obvious about it.  I think some of it comes from people underestimating her.  They are quite surprised when she calls them on it.  What game Angela is playing is harder to figure ouu but I think there is a game.

I think it's just her needing to get revenge on the people who killed her mother and I feel confident she will accomplish that. I have boundless faith in Angela.

 

6 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

I think she just needs to get revenge on the people who killed her mother and I'm confident she will do that. I have boundless faith in Angela.

If she was a real person, I would want to love her truly, madly and deeply.

Edited August 19, 2016 by AliShibaz