S08.E19: Tomfoolery

[zoeysmom]

Since it ran again this morning I watched it with a different mindset.

I wholeheartedly believe, because last year had disappointing ratings, Bethenny really needed to bring it.  She came out like a lion going after John, then it was Jules and Luann.  By the time they broke for the holidays there wasn't much left to work with.  Sonja had brushed off seeing Bethenny for a final holiday kiss of death and Bethenny, Carole et al, had voted both Sonja and Luann off the trip as soon as the returned to post holiday filming.  The only thing that changed and Luann and Tom had it out there in the press, is they were getting serious.  So now they are left with bleeding fibroids, a dog wedding and a very limited trip to Mexico, because Carole and Bethenny didn't want Luann and Sonja to go.  Sonja had mentioned to on camera to haven been with Tom, her Tom.  My guess is Bethenny was clued in and decided her "I'm done" with Sonja, wasn't exactly done if she could needle Luann.  So in a two week period Bethenny managed to announce Tom had bedded both Ramona and Sonja and pooh-pooh the engagement.

I also believe Bethenny and Carole truly thought the Tom/Luann thing was just for the show.  That sure Luann really, really liked the guy but waiting until next season to get married gave her a lot of time to call it quits.  Sonja even has a line "by then Luann could be engaged to someone else."  So when Bethenny got the info, before the engagement party, she knew how to best use the information.  After three days of talking about Tom and Luann Bethenny said, "this will put an end to it."  Interesting enough when she said she thought Luann was in it for the press and fanfare, she mentioned she knew how it felt.  So once again we have Bethenny deciding how all people should react in any given situation. 

Move ahead to next week and you have Bethenny saying, "it has been three days and I have reached out to Luann and she is not responding."  She then goes on to say she thought about not telling her because Luann is, "just a whore." (Nice)  To me, it seems Bethenny was expecting Luann to dump Tom and then she and the rest of her coven could dance around and say they knew it, it was just for the show.  Since that didn't happen it has become, that Luann's reaction is all wrong.  A note to Bethenny-since we are hearing one side of the conversation, I am guessing Tom is apologizing for hurting Luann and want to make things work.  Luann is conveying he has publicly humiliated her.  I don't see how that makes the relationship just for the show.  People who have screwed up know what they have done wrong and the wronged person needs to communicate how and why they were hurt.  These idiots think because of her previous relationships she is not entitled to be hurt-except by them repeatedly.  Six months later with wedding plans in full bloom, there is some reckoning to do with Bethenny. 

I have read where Bethenny is now claiming she did it because it is a reality show.  Reality show is not synonymous with fact finding mission.  It has as much to do with how one comports themselves in sticky situations.  Best example I can think of is Brandi bringing up the Mauricio cheating rumors in the tabloids and asking Kyle how she and her family feel about it and then Yolanda and LVP chipping in.  No they didn't have to go there-in spite of the fact the others were talking about it.  So when a tabloid reporter asks Brandi if she is a bully she flips out and blames Kyle.  No dumbass, don't be the messenger.  Most of all what is pretty offensive, is Bethenny doing this dramatic, "Would you want to know?", another dumbass, as she put it all out on camera. before offering it up to Luann.  Given Luann's response to Ramona telling her about the gold bracelet and ex-girlfriend, "why would you tell me that?", and Avery concurring, I don't think Luann wanted to know on camera.

Edited August 19, 2016 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

9 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I'm still confused. It seems like Tom has no reason to get married. They seemed to be kicking it very successfully on the singles scene. My issue is why would a man who doesn't want to be married and has managed to dodge that particular event while continuing on his happy trail of UES women decide all of a sudden to put a ring on it?

 

Maybe it is as simple as he knew Luann was the one or that he didn't want to share her with other men so he put a ring on her. It does happen that way time to time. LOL

Edited August 19, 2016 by WireWrap

[Yours Truly]

32 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Where and when was this "group date" mentioned?  Ramona said that two of Tom's very close friends told Ramona that Tom was on a date with a woman that he had been seeing for three months and that LuAnn came up and grabbed his hand while he was holding that woman's hand and LuAnn left with him.  LuAnn's only clarification was that no, she didn't grab Tom's hand, he let go of the other woman's hand and left with LuAnn.

There was no mention of a "group date".  WTF kind of 50 year old man goes out on "group dates"?? 

I don't know about you but two of MY very close friends ain't telling jack shit to a dude I had a couple of dates with.....#sideeye

I've also never taken "the friend of a friend" version of any story as bona fide fact. Or anything Sonja says...

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Natalie68]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I'm still confused. It seems like Tom has no reason to get married. They seemed to be kicking it very successfully on the singles scene. My issue is why would a man who doesn't want to be married and has managed to dodge that particular event while continuing on his happy trail of UES women decide all of a sudden to put a ring on it?

I know, I know he's not the most suave and a bit sloppy but why on earth would he subject himself to these restrictions if he doesn't really have too?

That says to me that there is something between him and Lu. Mistake aside, I don't see why it's such a given that Tom CAN'T be successful in thriving in this new lifestyle. I personally don't think this stupid mistake is such a sign. To me it just confirms how thoughtless men in general can be. To me it sounded like a classic "mistake". Same with how he handled the night he left the party with Lu. He's accustomed to no real guidelines. Coming and going, jet setting around the UES with little need to accommodate to higher relationship expectations. I get that it wasn't the most stellar move but apparently there were plenty of other traits that had him pretty popular on the singles scene.  I'm just saying I find it odd he would agree to marry Lu if that's not what he wanted to do. And if he can't keep it in his pants then I would expect he would just revert back to that just as easily as he dropped that other woman's hand. 

The only thing that would make sense is that he got swept up in the moment with Lu and since Lu is the type to jump straight into things he was right there on the ride at first and but now he's dropping back to earth realizing what he's committed and is being reckless in order to get Lu to put the breaks on...????? That's how men roll. They don't just opt out the do everything in their power to get the woman to opt out... Sad but true.

I actually don't think they WILL get married.  And if they do, he is obviously marrying someone who doesn't care who and what he sleeps with as long as it is discreet.  Plus he can probably negotiate payment for being filmed.  A little bit of money you don't have to work for.  

IF Bethenny was correct he doesn't have his own money what a coup!  He gets to be filmed and paid for doing essentially nothing, he gets to make mommy and daddy happy he FINALLY got married (what 50 year old never been married with parents that are alive HAVEN'T heard lots of yammering about that) to an ex COUNTESS, he gets to do what he pleases as does she as long as its discreet, sounds like a win win.  His business is finally talked about so more PR.  I can see why he would do it.  I can see why she would do it.  She WAS demoted to FOH and saw a decrease in $.  She is NOT going back to that if she can help it.  Plus with Noel being older is she no longer getting child support?  Motivation right there for her.  This whole partnership has manipulation all over it.  I think she cares more about it being public (his wandering tongue) than the actual act.  She is ALL about appearances.  Money DID buy her class for a time.  Then she spent too much time in front of the camera so the real Lu is out and about.

[Yours Truly]

33 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I think Lu loves a storyline, the scandal (gets ya back next year), a bed buddy, being able to spend someone else's money, and beating Bethenny to the punch re an engagement (if that story is true).    

 I DO think Jacques loved her but she done screwed that up with the Pirate (even with no sex, her actions HAD to embarrass him cause she REALLY showed her ass).  I also think she loved the Count but he fell in love with the princess.  Now she is facing a tv show that is circling the drain (5 years more tops?? what's next Celebrity Marriage Bootcamp?), no other real stable work history with her OWN retirement, some cheesy clothes she sells online, and a house with very expensive upkeep and taxes.  Money won't last long.  Certainly won't keep her in the lifestyle she had grown accustomed.  So she is willing to set aside her pride to perhaps marry this douchebag.  When I see her bouncing around and acting like the 12 year old that got a selfie with Bieber I get sad for her.  It is NOT the Countess she presented in season 1 (self assured socialite with no cares in the world).  

Actually considering how she got with the Count (moving out of her long term relationship without even a discussion or waiting for him to get home) she has only ever considered her own feelings and people are expendable.  So maybe she and Tom are a perfect pair.  And people think Bethenny is the cold hearted bitch!  Lu has a trail behind her as well of people she stomped over to get what she wanted.

??

Lu has always seemed to managed to make her way with or without a man.  He HW special outlined that particular trait of hers.

[LIMOM]

I believe that Luann is going to come after Beth, Ramona and Sonja with a vengeance.

I also rewatched and the diner scene when they were all laughing and shouting that they needed to go the witness program is incredibly hard to watch.

Bethanny in particular looks like she was drunk with glee at the inside joke. It must have been hard for lu to watch, imo

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Real Housewives Of New York City Find Scandal Under The Miami Sun

Bethenny lets LuAnn have one last weekend of fun before snapping her back to reality.

[ladle]

I feel like this whole season has been about John and Tom and, to a lesser extent, Michael.  Bechdel test FAIL. 

[Yours Truly]

11 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Maybe it is as simple as he knew Luann was the one or that he didn't want to share her with other men so he put a ring on her. It does happen that way time to time. LOL

My point exactly. If he doesn't want to be married and wants to keep fucking around then he doesn't HAVE to marry her.

That's why I believe it's something for real.

[Yours Truly]

16 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I actually don't think they WILL get married.  And if they do, he is obviously marrying someone who doesn't care who and what he sleeps with as long as it is discreet.  Plus he can probably negotiate payment for being filmed.  A little bit of money you don't have to work for.  

IF Bethenny was correct he doesn't have his own money what a coup!  He gets to be filmed and paid for doing essentially nothing, he gets to make mommy and daddy happy he FINALLY got married (what 50 year old never been married with parents that are alive HAVEN'T heard lots of yammering about that) to an ex COUNTESS, he gets to do what he pleases as does she as long as its discreet, sounds like a win win.  His business is finally talked about so more PR.  I can see why he would do it.  I can see why she would do it.  She WAS demoted to FOH and saw a decrease in $.  She is NOT going back to that if she can help it.  Plus with Noel being older is she no longer getting child support?  Motivation right there for her.  This whole partnership has manipulation all over it.  I think she cares more about it being public (his wandering tongue) than the actual act.  She is ALL about appearances.  Money DID buy her class for a time.  Then she spent too much time in front of the camera so the real Lu is out and about.

But that doesn't make any sense if he still wants to fuck around what is the benefit of putting a ring on any woman's finger? I mean the logic isn't there. One day he woke up and said okay Tom you still want to live the lifestyle, fuck who you want but you want to put a ring on one woman's finger and technically call her your wife... At his age???? FOR. WHAT. PURPOSE.

A little bit of coin on a reality show? Some exposure? A dude at his age that's managed to live his life rather comfortably without these ridiculous stretches of logic? Nah.. Come on. I could see it if it was a young, tryna and get rich quick type, just starting out but now... Can't.

 I don't believe it. There's no reason for those kind of shenanigans it's absurd to me.

To the bolded:

Sounds like a Win, win? To who? It doesn't even sound sound. Maybe for one of the Shah's of sunset but someone Tom's age, position? Goodness.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Natalie68]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

??

Lu has always seemed to managed to make her way with or without a man.  He HW special outlined that particular trait of hers.

What has she done for any length of time since before the Count?  

Nurse (short time BA means before Alex)

Model (not super model or more than really catalog stuff- BA)

Italian tv show (made some coin but not enough to sustain one into old age-BA)

Hamptons vanity tv show-AA (after Alex)

really awful songs that I am sure made her a few hundred to MAYBE a few thousand- AA

Evine stuff (I doubt profits are really high, you have to share that with Bravo etc)-AA

HWs (sure decent, but not sustaining forever)

Could YOU sustain a Hamptons house and its upkeep on these professions through retirement?  Or continue traveling?  Or living in an expensive area?  

Her money is finite and she has to think about her future especially now that she is in her 50's.  If I were in her shoes I would be a bit scared.  Sonja should be as well.  I also don't know when she has been without a man.  No break between other older guy and Alex.  Alex is gone and we see people like that creepy author, then Jacques, the random hookups with skeevy possibly married men, then Rey, then Tom.  I don't think ol Lu has been without a man for very long.  

[Natalie68]

5 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But that doesn't make any sense if he still wants to fuck around what is the benefit of putting a ring on any woman's finger? I mean the logic isn't there. One day he woke up and said okay Tom you still want to live the lifestyle, fuck who you want but you want to put a ring on one woman's finger and technically call her your wife... At his age???? FOR. WHAT. PURPOSE.

A little bit of coin on a reality show? Some exposure? A dude at his age that's managed to live his life rather comfortably without these ridiculous stretches of logic? Nah.. Come on. I could see it if it was a young, tryna and get rich quick type, just starting out but now... Can't.

 I don't believe it. There's no reason for those kind of shenanigans it's absurd to me.

To the bolded:

Win, win? To who?

Lu and Tom.  It is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[Yours Truly]

12 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

What has she done for any length of time since before the Count?  

Nurse (short time BA means before Alex)

Model (not super model or more than really catalog stuff- BA)

Italian tv show (made some coin but not enough to sustain one into old age-BA)

Hamptons vanity tv show-AA (after Alex)

really awful songs that I am sure made her a few hundred to MAYBE a few thousand- AA

Evine stuff (I doubt profits are really high, you have to share that with Bravo etc)-AA

HWs (sure decent, but not sustaining forever)

Could YOU sustain a Hamptons house and its upkeep on these professions through retirement?  Or continue traveling?  Or living in an expensive area?  

Her money is finite and she has to think about her future especially now that she is in her 50's.  If I were in her shoes I would be a bit scared.  Sonja should be as well.  I also don't know when she has been without a man.  No break between other older guy and Alex.  Alex is gone and we see people like that creepy author, then Jacques, the random hookups with skeevy possibly married men, then Rey, then Tom.  I don't think ol Lu has been without a man for very long.  

She's kept it moving and made shit happen that's what. That's the point. With a man, without a man it seems Lu will keep it moving and shaking and making the best of whatever her life circumstances are. She has exercised sound judgement when it's come to her financial circumstances and I doubt she would be at a loss like our dear Sonja no matter what her martial status turns out to be.

Lu can live off of her celebrity income (however small or fluxuating) partnered with investments if she's smart with her money. Which I have a feeling she is.  I sense that she's pretty savy about such things and I wouldn't be surprised if she put certain things in place the minute she sensed there was trouble in her marriage and then certain things in motion once the divorce was final. She's had years to set up her own financial well of income using a good chunk of the Counts money before the marriage was dissolved. But regardless even if she put things in motion after the divorce with funds received from the settlement you can't believe she doesn't have things like investments, retirement funds etc. etc.? That she's living pay check to pay check blowing it all the minute she sees it in her bank account?

Not in this day and age.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

Carole was interesting this episode.  The little thing about being late and blowing Bethenny off.  Note to Bethenny-you don't have to express every feeling you have and it is weird to say you can't let Carole get away with it just because you are friends.

Carole admitting to being a plotter, I will go to the Sandbar because I don't want to feed the "cliquish' chatter. 

Most of all I think Carole likes to keep Sonja talking and she knows what an incredible bullshit artist she is.  By bringing up the one night stand stuff, at dinner, in front of Bethenny's esteemed guest, she knew there was every bit the chance either Sonja or Ramona would blow Luann's big surprise.  Sonja looked butt stupid sitting there with a tiara talking about how the one night stands were at her command.  What an insufferable twit.  Why is it Sonja never managed to take time out of her place up Bethenny's butt to have a one on one with Luann about her feelings and Tom's disregard for the same?  Because they were manufactured and the paint wasn't dried. 

[ryebread]

Some terrific posts regarding Lu's character.  She's not malicious like Beth but I think she's very obnoxious (very) and...inauthentic. /Kelly

On the pontoon when talking to Jules about how Carole changes for the better when not with Beth she says:  "You know what she (Carole) said? 'Today I'm hanging out with the cool girls.'  She's having the best time." 

Oh, realllllllllly, Luann.  Repeating what Carole (allegedly) said - and the way she repeated it - just seemed desperate and school girl-ish.  Yet so very arrogant.  If Beth or Moaner had made a similar statement we'd be dragging them all the way into next week.

Also, losing her shit because the guys on the other boat recognized her and her music was ridiculous.  Lu, follow your own advice:  Be cool.  Don't be, like, uncool. 

That said, I felt bad for her when Beth told her that she had pictures.  The look on Lu's face was devastation.  Either because she had no idea, or because she already knew but didn't know Frankelstein knew and had photographic proof.

[ryebread]

41 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I know, I know he's not the most suave and a bit sloppy but why on earth would he subject himself to these restrictions if he doesn't really have too?

Maybe his mother told him to?  I'm partly serious and partly playing, here, but what if it's true that his money is family money and after all these years of swinging his pecker - hither and yon on the UES, his mother told him to settle down or else?  Stranger things have happened in moneyed families. 

I'm not saying he doesn't have feelings for Lu.  He's just got a jacked up way of showing them, which as you said, after all these years of singledom is just his way.  But she must have told him, like she told millions of us, that she didn't want an open relationship.  He surely knew how bad the last few years with Alex were for her.  Why would he betray her like this?

[zoeysmom]

12 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

What has she done for any length of time since before the Count?  

Nurse (short time BA means before Alex)

Model (not super model or more than really catalog stuff- BA)

Italian tv show (made some coin but not enough to sustain one into old age-BA)

Hamptons vanity tv show-AA (after Alex)

really awful songs that I am sure made her a few hundred to MAYBE a few thousand- AA

Evine stuff (I doubt profits are really high, you have to share that with Bravo etc)-AA

HWs (sure decent, but not sustaining forever)

Could YOU sustain a Hamptons house and its upkeep on these professions through retirement?  Or continue traveling?  Or living in an expensive area?  

Her money is finite and she has to think about her future especially now that she is in her 50's.  If I were in her shoes I would be a bit scared.  Sonja should be as well.  I also don't know when she has been without a man.  No break between other older guy and Alex.  Alex is gone and we see people like that creepy author, then Jacques, the random hookups with skeevy possibly married men, then Rey, then Tom.  I don't think ol Lu has been without a man for very long.  

Most people don't have an infinite supply of money.  Luann did well in her divorce settlement.  She did get an $8 million dollar house and picked up another one, even with renovations for under $4 million.  It has been my experience that many wealthy people don't get monthly or annual support payments, instead they settle for a lump sum.  In Luann's case since the Count lives abroad, it was probably well advised.  Sonja of all people mentioned she was envious of Luann's divorce settlement.  I would describe Luann as upper class frugal.  She knows what it is like to share a bathroom with eight people.  Luann much like many of the BH ladies doesn't really lay it out there.  I do think she is good and negotiating deals for herself-not Skinnygirl level but just a few lucrative deals here and there. (Certainly not the music.)  I also don't think she is shy about asking for comps.  Her eyes still light up when she is surrounded in luxury.  I would have loved to have seen her in the suite in Dubai, LVP and Kyle had.   

Luann said at the beginning of the season and before meeting Tom, she was in the mind set to meet and settle down.  I think Luann doesn't like being alone.  With her son gone, and living out in the Hamptons, I think she channeled her energies into finding Mr. Right (or maybe in her case Mr. So-So) instead of Mr. Right Now.

Comparing Sonja and Luann, Luann right sized while Sonja ended up having to take out a $3 million mortgage.  Sonja should be more worried about her retirement instead of one of her lovers retiring the Sonja account.

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

The only thing that would make sense is that he got swept up in the moment with Lu and since Lu is the type to jump straight into things he was right there on the ride at first and but now he's dropping back to earth realizing what he's committed and is being reckless in order to get Lu to put the breaks on...????? That's how men roll. They don't just opt out the do everything in their power to get the woman to opt out... Sad but true.

That's an interesting theory.  My personal theory is that Tom is just pig who'd follow his dick into a forest fire if that's where it was pointing. 

 

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Maybe it is as simple as he knew Luann was the one or that he didn't want to share her with other men so he put a ring on her. It does happen that way time to time. LOL

If Luann is "the one" why is Tom in the Regency sucking on some other woman's face?  

 

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But that doesn't make any sense if he still wants to fuck around what is the benefit of putting a ring on any woman's finger? I mean the logic isn't there. One day he woke up and said okay Tom you still want to live the lifestyle, fuck who you want but you want to put a ring on one woman's finger and technically call her your wife... At his age???? FOR. WHAT. PURPOSE.

I don't get it and I don't believe it. There's no reason for those kind of shenanigans it's absurd to me.

You are assuming Tom sees being married and fucking around as mutually exclusive options.  Apparently to him, they are not.

I think Tom simply wants the benefits of being married (whatever they are to him), and he wants to mess around on the side, too.  It's not that hard to understand. 

 

22 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Lu has always seemed to managed to make her way with or without a man.  He HW special outlined that particular trait of hers.

My takeaway from her special was the exact opposite.  Luann struck me as incredibly dependent (financially, socially, and professionally) on men.

If not for the men in her life, I honestly think Luann would be emptying bedpans in a Connecticut nursing home.  That's what she was doing when she met the one guy who got her into her first pageant.  That is how she got into modeling where she met another guy who moved to Europe with her.  Where she met another guy who got her in another pageant that led to her going to a party where she met a different man who put her on TV.  From there she met yet another man, some rich dude she lived with for years who introduced her to high society. And one weekend when he was out of town, she met the count and married him only two weeks later.  

I don't want to totally denigrate all her accomplishments, that would be unfair. She seized opportunities and capitalized on them herself, no one else did that for her.  But I don't think it is accurate to say Luann ever made her way in the world without help from men, especially for social connections that were key to her success in life.   And she seems especially dependent upon attention from men for her happiness, now.  

I'm in the camp that thinks Luann is actually a very insecure person, despite her bawdy, self-confident image. Especially now that she is getting older.  I wonder if that is part of the reason she is settling for someone like Tom.

[WireWrap]

44 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I don't know about you but two of MY very close friends ain't telling jack shit to a dude I had a couple of dates with.....#sideeye

I've also never taken "the friend of a friend" version of any story as bona fide fact. Or anything Sonja says...

Does anyone really see 2 of Tom's close friends telling Ramona squat about him, the women he dates or the dates themselves? His close friends, not hers! Right....and Mario never cheated on Ramona during their marriage and he is still pinning away for her! LOL

[Yours Truly]

16 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Lu and Tom.  It is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

But I don't see the benefit for Tom.

The speculation is real stretches. I mean the speculations don't even come from any sort of logical pool of information that's even out there.

Was there anything from Tom that we've seen or heard that would suggest:

-He needs to marry to make his parents happy

-He needs exposure for his business

-Would think this was an awesome way to gather business press

-Money? When apparently he has a significant amount WITHOUT being on the show?

This is just random guesses on why a man who was in no apparent jeopardy of losing takers for a late night romp, who is financially sound and who has easily side stepped any pressure to have serious relationships unless of course he wants them and as far as I know we haven't heard of him having a long list of "long term relationships" that have crashed and burned for less than stellar reasons. So I find this very questionable theory about why he would just want to change everything he's used to just so he can say he's married for mommy and daddy, a few spots on a reality show all this big coin he's gonna be getting?

Does not gel with me AT ALL...

[ryebread]

30 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

What has she done for any length of time since before the Count?  

Nurse (short time BA means before Alex)

Model (not super model or more than really catalog stuff- BA)

Italian tv show (made some coin but not enough to sustain one into old age-BA)

Hamptons vanity tv show-AA (after Alex)

really awful songs that I am sure made her a few hundred to MAYBE a few thousand- AA

Evine stuff (I doubt profits are really high, you have to share that with Bravo etc)-AA

HWs (sure decent, but not sustaining forever)

Could YOU sustain a Hamptons house and its upkeep on these professions through retirement?  Or continue traveling?  Or living in an expensive area?  

Her money is finite and she has to think about her future especially now that she is in her 50's.  If I were in her shoes I would be a bit scared.  Sonja should be as well.  I also don't know when she has been without a man.  No break between other older guy and Alex.  Alex is gone and we see people like that creepy author, then Jacques, the random hookups with skeevy possibly married men, then Rey, then Tom.  I don't think ol Lu has been without a man for very long.  

I agree about the money being finite.  Hopefully she's made investments.  But even if she banked $3million from the sale of her house and continued to do this show another couple years, that's not enough to bankroll her lifestyle forever.  Hopefully if she marries this guy, he DOES have some money.  She's not getting child support for the kids anymore and I don't see them gainfully employed anywhere.  That I know of.  Marry a guy with little or no money and now she's got another mouth to feed and take on trips to Europe.

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Maybe his mother told him to?  I'm partly serious and partly playing, here, but what if it's true that his money is family money and after all these years of swinging his pecker - hither and yon on the UES, his mother told him to settle down or else?  Stranger things have happened in moneyed families. 

I'm not saying he doesn't have feelings for Lu.  He's just got a jacked up way of showing them, which as you said, after all these years of singledom is just his way.  But she must have told him, like she told millions of us, that she didn't want an open relationship.  He surely knew how bad the last few years with Alex were for her.  Why would he betray her like this?

But now we are inventing.

As it stands now the most obvious reason is because it's what they say it is. Bumps and scraps and all but still a whirlwind romance they want to continue with in a more committed fashion...

Tom's blunders aside I don't think there's anything more to it than what they claim it to be. Do I think they've got far to go??? Hell yeah. Do I think the odds are against them? Kinda. But I doubt it's about anything more than infatuation, turn love, turn possible future.

[Normades]

Since we haven’t seen the pictures or heard any side except B’s and then Lu’s mistake comment, do we really know what was going on with Tom and the woman?  Was it a bachelor party where the prospective groom got really drunk and started making out with someone else?  Could someone have set him up?  I’m not sure if I would throw away a marriage to someone I felt was my “soul mate” over what I’ve seen/know at this point.  I would need a lot more information before making that kind of decision, which we do not have.  I know I’ve made stupid hurtful decisions and mistakes in my life, so I try to give people a chance, especially people I love.  If that makes me stupid like LuAnn supposedly is for staying engaged to Tom, then so be it. 

What I did find reprehensible was the cat and mouse game of B and her coven cackling around the hotel room and then making veiled comments at the dinner table over this obviously hurtful situation.  I’m sick of hearing that other people are not truthful from someone who hides so much of her own life.  B needs to shine the light on her own life.  I don’t think it would be pretty.

I wish only good things for Lu and Tom.  They are both grown ups who have lived and made mistakes.  They are walking into this with their eyes open.  If they choose to marry, then good for them.  Whether it works or not doesn’t affect any of the other women, so they should be supportive or be quiet. 

[shoegal]

58 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I don't know about you but two of MY very close friends ain't telling jack shit to a dude I had a couple of dates with.....#sideeye

I've also never taken "the friend of a friend" version of any story as bona fide fact. Or anything Sonja says...

Well, LuAnn didn't deny the "friend of a friend" version, in fact, she stated the only thing that Ramona got wrong was that LuAnn did not grab Tom's hand while Tom had his hand on his date, it was in fact Tom that took his hand off his date and grabbed Lu.  Huge distinction there.  LOL!

I'm sure her next excuse will be that Tom wasn't kissing the playboy bunny, that bunny was kissing Tom! 

Edited August 19, 2016 by shoegal

[Yours Truly]

10 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

That's an interesting theory.  My personal theory is that Tom is just pig who'd follow his dick into a forest fire if that's where it was pointing. 

 

 

But surely Lu's not the first to want to make things more serious.

He may think with his dick but considering he's been playing the field for this long, doesn't have to beg for sex and has managed to hold onto to his bachelor's status it seems that he doesn't make long term decisions with it.

That's what I'm trying to say.

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

 

My takeaway from her special was the exact opposite.  Luann struck me as incredibly dependent (financially, socially, and professionally) on men.

If not for the men in her life, I honestly think Luann would be emptying bedpans in a Connecticut nursing home.  That's what she was doing when she met the one guy who got her into her first pageant.  That is how she got into modeling where she met another guy who moved to Europe with her.  Where she met another guy who got her in another pageant that led to her going to a party where she met a different man who put her on TV.  From there she met yet another man, some rich dude she lived with for years who introduced her to high society. And one weekend when he was out of town, she met the count and married him only two weeks later.  

I don't want to totally denigrate all her accomplishments, that would be unfair. She seized opportunities and capitalized on them herself, no one else did that for her.  But I don't think it is accurate to say Luann ever made her way in the world without help from men, especially for social connections that were key to her success in life.   And she seems especially dependent upon attention from men for her happiness, now.  

I'm in the camp that thinks Luann is actually a very insecure person, despite her bawdy, self-confident image. Especially now that she is getting older.  I wonder if that is part of the reason she is settling for someone like Tom.

When I see Luann I see someone who wasn't afraid to take risks.  Her popularity on TV is something you can't necessarily guarantee, she had something that others saw. Thirty years ago it was mostly men holding the levers of power.   She recognized the fact and made it work for her but there is still the hopeless romantic in her.  I think the woman Honey who burned her, one of the few women with a power level, made her re-think reliance on women.  Any hopes of gaining that trust back has certainly been dashed this past couple of years with this show.  Of all the former RH, Luann has managed to stay close with Jill and Kelly and has in fact included Kelly.  During the beat down in the Berkshires, Luann brought up loyalty. 

I have never quite figured out why the others take shots at her, because with the exception of Carole, they all seem to feel they need to be the center of attention.  Carole wants to be the center of attention but expects the others to draw it out of her.  Hint to Carole, fostering a kitten and a dog wedding won't get you there.

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Well, LuAnn didn't deny the "friend of a friend" version, in fact, she stated the only thing that Ramona got wrong was that LuAnn did not grab Tom's hand while Tom had his hand on his date, it was in fact Tom that took his hand off his date and grabbed Lu.  Huge distinction there.  LOL!

I agree that is a big distinction, though I know you were being sarcastic.

It changes the entire narrative of Lu going in gang-busters and obliviously and deliberately whisking Tom away from his date and man stealing. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by izabella

[WireWrap]

25 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Some terrific posts regarding Lu's character.  She's not malicious like Beth but I think she's very obnoxious (very) and...inauthentic. /Kelly

On the pontoon when talking to Jules about how Carole changes for the better when not with Beth she says:  "You know what she (Carole) said? 'Today I'm hanging out with the cool girls.'  She's having the best time." 

Oh, realllllllllly, Luann.  Repeating what Carole (allegedly) said - and the way she repeated it - just seemed desperate and school girl-ish.  Yet so very arrogant.  If Beth or Moaner had made a similar statement we'd be dragging them all the way into next week.

Also, losing her shit because the guys on the other boat recognized her and her music was ridiculous.  Lu, follow your own advice:  Be cool.  Don't be, like, uncool. 

That said, I felt bad for her when Beth told her that she had pictures.  The look on Lu's face was devastation.  Either because she had no idea, or because she already knew but didn't know Frankelstein knew and had photographic proof.

Without a doubt, Luann can be and has been an ass (also will be in the future), like the rest of them but for the most part, she isn't particular vicious and she has never tried to freeze anyone out of filming. Her OTT nasty behavior last season, especially on twitter, was bizarre and nasty but she has apologized to Carole sincerely, even by Carole's standards minus the coffee. Her thing is to "appear about it all", "better than", is it snobby, yes, but it's not vicious.

Her reaction to those guys recognizing her was hysterical because she got sooooo goofy about it and came across as genuine/real.

I agree, she was devastated when Bethenny told her the news was about Tom, I don't think she knew about it before hand though, her reaction was too raw.

7 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

That's an interesting theory.  My personal theory is that Tom is just pig who'd follow his dick into a forest fire if that's where it was pointing. 

 

If Luann is "the one" why is Tom in the Regency sucking on some other woman's face?  

 

You are assuming Tom sees being married and fucking around as mutually exclusive options.  Apparently to him, they are not.

I think Tom simply wants the benefits of being married (whatever they are to him), and he wants to mess around on the side, too.  It's not that hard to understand. 

 

My takeaway from her special was the exact opposite.  Luann struck me as incredibly dependent (financially, socially, and professionally) on men.

If not for the men in her life, I honestly think Luann would be emptying bedpans in a Connecticut nursing home.  That's what she was doing when she met the one guy who got her into her first pageant.  That is how she got into modeling where she met another guy who moved to Europe with her.  Where she met another guy who got her in another pageant that led to her going to a party where she met a different man who put her on TV.  From there she met yet another man, some rich dude she lived with for years who introduced her to high society. And one weekend when he was out of town, she met the count and married him only two weeks later.  

I don't want to totally denigrate all her accomplishments, that would be unfair. She seized opportunities and capitalized on them herself, no one else did that for her.  But I don't think it is accurate to say Luann ever made her way in the world without help from men, especially for social connections that were key to her success in life.   And she seems especially dependent upon attention from men for her happiness, now.  

I'm in the camp that thinks Luann is actually a very insecure person, despite her bawdy, self-confident image. Especially now that she is getting older.  I wonder if that is part of the reason she is settling for someone like Tom.

My theory is that Tom thinks that as long as he doesn't stick his wanker into another woman that he isn't technically cheating. Sadly, a lot of guys think that way!

[Yours Truly]

37 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

 

 

-You are assuming Tom sees being married and fucking around as mutually exclusive options.  Apparently to him, they are not.

-I think Tom simply wants the benefits of being married (whatever they are to him), and he wants to mess around on the side, too.  It's not that hard to understand. 

 

 

-Then he would have marriages under his belt by now. That's what doesn't gel for me. Usually men who stay single this long aren't getting married just for the sake of getting married.

-It is hard because it's random.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

25 minutes ago, ryebread said:

Maybe his mother told him to?  I'm partly serious and partly playing, here, but what if it's true that his money is family money and after all these years of swinging his pecker - hither and yon on the UES, his mother told him to settle down or else?  Stranger things have happened in moneyed families. 

I'm not saying he doesn't have feelings for Lu.  He's just got a jacked up way of showing them, which as you said, after all these years of singledom is just his way.  But she must have told him, like she told millions of us, that she didn't want an open relationship.  He surely knew how bad the last few years with Alex were for her.  Why would he betray her like this?

Here is what Tom said back in late January/early February prior to popping the question.  The story is from a TV interview so technically this story ran the day he in fact proposed:     http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/luann-de-lesseps-new-boyfriend-speaks-about-relationship  He was the one saying he wanted to propose sooner rather than later.

[shoegal]

24 minutes ago, izabella said:

I agree that is a big distinction, though I know you were being sarcastic.

It changes the entire narrative of Lu going in gang-busters and obliviously and deliberately whisking Tom away from his date and man stealing. 

Well, I don't think it changes much about Lu's character.  She's either a deliberate man stealer, or a bitch that doesn't care about the woman Tom was on a date with (which makes Lu a knowingly complicit man stealer)...either way, not a good look for Lu or Tom.

I think they are soulmates. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by shoegal

[Yours Truly]

18 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

If not for the men in her life, I honestly think Luann would be emptying bedpans in a Connecticut nursing home.

 

Exactly, that's what she was doing to make a living and it seemed she was more than ready to go down that path to earn her own living. The beauty pageant wasn't even her idea.

It didn't even seem like she was restless with the life she was living at the time. So I concluded that she would have done just fine living a less than extravagant lifestyle.

One thing I've noticed about Lu is that she always seems prepared to accept life however it plays out. Sure she'll make key decisions, take certain  plunges, calculated moves but I don't see her flailing about in despair because of a loss of social status or a downsize in luxury. Who wouldn't like the perks but I get the feeling she can appreciate all levels of luxury big and small with the same level of awe and not REQUIRE the personal jet in order to be completely captivated by the experience. That is why I don't buy it that it's ALL about the money for her.

[Yours Truly]

34 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I don't want to totally denigrate all her accomplishments, that would be unfair. She seized opportunities and capitalized on them herself, no one else did that for her.  But I don't think it is accurate to say Luann ever made her way in the world without help from men, especially for social connections that were key to her success in life.   And she seems especially dependent upon attention from men for her happiness, now.  

I'm in the camp that thinks Luann is actually a very insecure person, despite her bawdy, self-confident image. Especially now that she is getting older.  I wonder if that is part of the reason she is settling for someone like Tom.

If you only base "making your way in life" by the luxuries lifestyle she obtained then yeah but she did make her way in life or at least started to when she was working as a nurse. She did that on her own and from what I can tell she was well on her way to building the foundation of a single gal on her own. That was a pretty respectable way to start off her independent life if you ask me and I have no reason to believe that she wouldn't have kept excelling in her profession had she pursued that course in life.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Celia Rubenstein]

25 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But surely Lu's not the first to want to make things more serious.

He may think with his dick but considering he's been playing the field for this long, doesn't have to beg for sex and has managed to hold onto to his bachelor's status it seems that he doesn't make long term decisions with it.

That's what I'm trying to say.

At its core you reasoning seems to be that Tom and Luann MUST really be in love because Tom is willing to give up his wild ways and settle down and get married when he doesn't have to if he didn't want to.

Which would be plausible if Tom was actually giving up his wild ways.  But it doesn't look like he is.  It may not make sense on it's face why he is marrying her if he intends to cheat ... but he wouldn't be the first man who entered into marriage fully intending to keep messing around. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[ryebread]

1 minute ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Which would be plausible if Tom was actually giving up his wild ways.  But it doesn't look like he is.  It may not make sense on it's face why he is marrying her if he intends to cheat ... but he wouldn't be the first man who entered into marriage fully intending to keep messing around.  It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love her, you know. Men cheat on women they love all the time.

When Beth questioned Lu if the relationship was monogamous.  Lu said "Of course! Whattaya mean, monogamous. We're getting married."  "If we didn't want to be monogamous we wouldn't be getting married. right?"

Somebody better tell Tom that.

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

When Beth questioned Lu if the relationship was monogamous.  Lu said "Of course! Whattaya mean, monogamous. We're getting married."  "If we didn't want to be monogamous we wouldn't be getting married. right?"

Somebody better tell Tom that.

I get the feeling that Luann made sure he understood that after this happened! LOL

[Yours Truly]

13 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

At its core you reasoning seems to be that Tom and Luann MUST really be in love because Tom is willing to give up his wild ways and settle down and get married when he doesn't have to if he didn't want to.

Which would be plausible if Tom was actually giving up his wild ways.  But it doesn't look like he is.  It may not make sense on it's face why he is marrying her if he intends to cheat ... but he wouldn't be the first man who entered into marriage fully intending to keep messing around.  It doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't love her, you know. Men cheat on women they love all the time.

And he wouldn't be the first man to make a stupid mistake and then live happily ever after with his soulmate completely faithful. Both happy and satisfied til death do they part. 

Point being who the hell knows? Sensationalizing unsensational events doesn't really shed a light on Tom and Lu's relationship or creates any concrete predictions about their marriage.

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I get the feeling that Luann made sure he understood that after this happened! LOL

I know right...

Issue handle. Probation sentenced... LOL!

Edited August 19, 2016 by Yours Truly

[breezy424]

Here's another theory.  Yes, Lu and Tom did get engaged but sometimes couples have huge disagreements about things aka fights.  Things get heated in the moment and one of them says that it's over.  The engagement is off.  They can do other stupid things afterward and go out, party, make out with someone else, and then.... the couple talks, compromise and resolve the issue.  Things are back on.  Is the one who went out and partied and kissed another person going to tell the other?  They should or if they do it would be surprising if they downplayed it.  This can happen in an evening or a day.  And this can happen without either one of the couple saying a word to anyone else. 

In the next episode, Beth makes a big deal about Lu being more concerned about appearances rather than her being hurt.  Maybe that's because Lu knows more than Beth and maybe more as to why Tom did what he did.  If they did have a momentary breakup, does Lu owe anyone an explanation?  That would just give more fodder for Beth, Carole, Ro and So. 

I'm not saying that this is what actually happened.  But it could have.  Bottom line is Lu's relationship with Tom is between them.  Beth doesn't know it all, nor do the other women....unless they're with Lu and Tom 24/7.  You have to be careful before you 'judge' because you don't always have all the facts and those facts aren't yours to demand.

Edited August 19, 2016 by breezy424

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, ryebread said:

When Beth questioned Lu if the relationship was monogamous.  Lu said "Of course! Whattaya mean, monogamous. We're getting married."  "If we didn't want to be monogamous we wouldn't be getting married. right?"

Somebody better tell Tom that.

Remember Vicki on the slopes of Whistler with avalanche inducing screaming. . . I expect that Tom's penthouse probably rang with the same level of reverberations once Luann was off camera.

I am expecting that the finale ends with Luann mulling things over and/or expressing extreme disappointment in Tom.  The end shot will bring us up to date. 

[Yours Truly]

5 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Here's another theory.  Yes, Lu and Tom did get engaged but sometimes couples have huge disagreements about things aka fights.  Things get heated in the moment and one of them says that it's over.  The engagement is off.  They can do other stupid things afterward and go out, party, make out with someone else, and then.... the couple talks, compromise and resolve the issue.  Things are back on.  Is the one who went out and partied and kissed another person going to tell the other?  They should or if they do it would be surprising if they downplayed it.  This can happen in an evening or a day.  And this can happen without either one of the couple saying a word to anyone else. 

In the next episode, Beth makes a big deal about Lu being more concerned about appearances rather than her being hurt.  Maybe that's because Lu knows more than Beth and maybe more as to why Tom did what he did.  If they did have a momentary breakup, does Lu owe anyone an explanation?  That would just give more fodder for Beth, Carole, Ro and So. 

I'm not saying that this is what actually happened.  But it could have.  Bottom line is Lu's relationship with Tom is between them.  Beth doesn't know it all, nor do the other women....unless they're with Lu and Tom 24/7.  You have to be careful before you 'judge' because you don't always have all the facts and those facts aren't yours to demand.

Somebody better tell Beth that.

[Celia Rubenstein]

It may not be anyone's right to demand the facts, but if that was in fact what happened I would be offering up those particular facts pretty damn quickly.

I would much rather people know we had a spat than think the man I was marrying had so little respect and regard for me that he sat in a bar openly tongue kissing some chick the night before our engagement party.

[ElDosEquis]

Even if Luann found a pair of Tom's pants with a stain on it, it doesn't mean anything.

I bet a president could get fellated while in office and no one would care,  so why should the countess?

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

She's kept it moving and made shit happen that's what. That's the point. With a man, without a man it seems Lu will keep it moving and shaking and making the best of whatever her life circumstances are. She has exercised sound judgement when it's come to her financial circumstances and I doubt she would be at a loss like our dear Sonja no matter what her martial status turns out to be.

Lu can live off of her celebrity income (however small or fluxuating) partnered with investments if she's smart with her money. Which I have a feeling she is.  I sense that she's pretty savy about such things and I wouldn't be surprised if she put certain things in place the minute she sensed there was trouble in her marriage and then certain things in motion once the divorce was final. She's had years to set up her own financial well of income using a good chunk of the Counts money before the marriage was dissolved. But regardless even if she put things in motion after the divorce with funds received from the settlement you can't believe she doesn't have things like investments, retirement funds etc. etc.? That she's living pay check to pay check blowing it all the minute she sees it in her bank account?

Not in this day and age.

unlike dummie Sonja, Luann downsized and pocketed the difference between her huge marital estate and the affordable (for her) smaller house in Sag Harbor.

So no, she is not hurting for money.

Plus she also received a generous cash pay out from the Comte.

If anything, Tom is marrying her for her assets, not the other way around, imo.

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

But I don't see the benefit for Tom.

The speculation is real stretches. I mean the speculations don't even come from any sort of logical pool of information that's even out there.

Was there anything from Tom that we've seen or heard that would suggest:

-He needs to marry to make his parents happy

-He needs exposure for his business

-Would think this was an awesome way to gather business press

-Money? When apparently he has a significant amount WITHOUT being on the show?

This is just random guesses on why a man who was in no apparent jeopardy of losing takers for a late night romp, who is financially sound and who has easily side stepped any pressure to have serious relationships unless of course he wants them and as far as I know we haven't heard of him having a long list of "long term relationships" that have crashed and burned for less than stellar reasons. So I find this very questionable theory about why he would just want to change everything he's used to just so he can say he's married for mommy and daddy, a few spots on a reality show all this big coin he's gonna be getting?

Does not gel with me AT ALL...

He is hitting fifty and she is a nurse. 

Have you ever watched Millionaire Matchmaker?

Patti used to say " do u want to be the one with nobody with you at the nursing house?

Plus imo, they are sexually compatible and she is a match, imo

Edited August 19, 2016 by LIMOM

[ryebread]

11 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Here's another theory.  Yes, Lu and Tom did get engaged but sometimes couples have huge disagreements about things aka fights.  Things get heated in the moment and one of them says that it's over.  The engagement is off.  They can do other stupid things afterward and go out, party, make out with someone else, and then.... the couple talks, compromise and resolve the issue.  Things are back on.  Is the one who went out and partied and kissed another person going to tell the other?  They should or if they do it would be surprising if they downplayed it.  This can happen in an evening or a day.  And this can happen without either one of the couple saying a word to anyone else. 

In the next episode, Beth makes a big deal about Lu being more concerned about appearances rather than her being hurt.  Maybe that's because Lu knows more than Beth and maybe more as to why Tom did what he did.  If they did have a momentary breakup, does Lu owe anyone an explanation?  That would just give more fodder for Beth, Carole, Ro and So. 

I'm not saying that this is what actually happened.  But it could have.  Bottom line is Lu's relationship with Tom is between them.  Beth doesn't know it all, nor do the other women....unless they're with Lu and Tom 24/7.  You have to be careful before you 'judge' because you don't always have all the facts and those facts aren't yours to demand.

All these theories are inventions.  I agree with Yours Truly on that.  It could have went down like how you say.  But I think Tom loving Lu is also an invention.  A huge one.  It doesn't matter if she's the first one he put a ring on.  You don't cheat on someone you "love" the day before your engagement party.  Especially when you know she's acting giddy and over the moon.  To cheat on her so publically is devastation and humiliation, certainly not love. 

The idea of anybody - male or female - engaged, married, single - in a bar, drunk off their ass making out with someone, kind of turns my stomach. I'm not even a Countess and that seems a little low rent - especially for the over 50 set.  

But if it were my fiancé the day before he flew to Florida for our engagement party?? No wonder Lu felt like she wanted to throw up.  Kudos to her if she can move past that.  My money says she doesn't and within 6 months some sympathetic guy with a luscious head full of hair will take his place on her arm.  I think Lu is going to show Tom a thing or two....

[sasha206]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

Wait, how has Luann fucked them over?  I haven't seen her fuck anyone over, certainly not Bethy who is the one who has been having an affair with a man married to her friend from high school.  Lu hasn't stolen anyone's lover, boyfriend, or even potential boyfriend. 

I wonder about that too.  Whose lover has she stolen that earned her the reputation?  Or is it that their men secretly (or not so secretly) want to get with Luann and that drives them all crazy?

[LIMOM]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I wonder about that too.  Whose lover has she stolen that earned her the reputation?  Or is it that their men secretly (or not so secretly) want to get with Luann and that drives them all crazy?

I think that she kissed a married dude on vacay and cavalierly declared that stuff happened.

[zoeysmom]

27 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It may not be anyone's right to demand the facts, but if that was in fact what happened I would be offering up those particular facts pretty damn quickly.

I would much rather people know we had a spat than think the man I was marrying had so little respect and regard for me that he sat in a bar openly tongue kissing some chick the night before our engagement party.

Tom gave a statement that reflected your sentiment.  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/luann-de-lesseps-fiance-relationship-issues-wedding-plans/  You and Tom have like minds.

I am thinking the repeated press about Ramona, Sonja and Tom (thanks Bethenny) may have been the bump in the road combined with having to attend a party with the two of them.  No sane person could have been looking forward to that moment.  Not an excuse just a guess as to the bump in the road.

[sasha206]

3 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

I think that she kissed a married dude on vacay and cavalierly declared that stuff happened.

I was wondering if there was more to it than that b/c I thought she said she didn't know he was married.

[RedheadZombie]

6 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

How does anyone other than the pirate and Luann know she slept with the pirate?  She says no.  All we know is she lied and tried to cover up the fact she brought him back to the house.  It was like Carole saying Sonja and the pirate were "butt fucking".  Three years later she withdrew the claim.  Aviva claimed Ramona and Sonja are drunk, naked in bed together engaging in sex acts.  What is true is they are drunk, in bed, mostly likely don't have a lot of clothes on but only they know if they are having sex.  We have all seen Sonja on the dance floor trying to make out with Luann, doesn't mean the two of them consummate the activity. 

Just once I wish someone when asked about something deeply personal would say, "how very rude of you to ask and quite frankly it is none of your business or anyone else's."

Carole never said "butt fucking".  She said something like what they were doing is illegal in several states.  I'm sure that's what Carole was implying, but she didn't crudely label it.

5 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/111379-luann-talks-the-st-barths-pirate-story-from-real-housewives-of-new-york-she-got

I started to type this whole long thing but basically there isn't any reason to craft a lie over a thing that didn't happen. 

I thought it was Sonja herself who confirmed the pirate bent her over out in the garden? 

Lu seems to know she cheated.  Her cast mates seem to know she cheated.  Jacques seems to know she cheated. Lu admitted at the reunion that she had to apologize to Jacques and work on their relationship.   Yet it's still argued that since it wasn't on camera, no one knows. This isn't premium cable, we are not going to see sex acts.  If you put a person on trial with this circumstantial evidence and the defendant doesn't deny the crime, a jury is going to find them guilty.  I don't understand the need to argue against it.  I can't stand the parsing - there's no proof of P in V, he was probably too drunk for an erection, she was too drunk as a fifty year old to interest a man ......  She cheated.  Period.  Lu is not denying it.  Why should anyone else?

It frustrates me because I feel it's crossing into LVP territory.  LVP only repeatedly brought up Eileen's affair because she magnanimously wanted to help her remove the stigma.   When Brandi slapped her, LVP went on at length that no one has ever laid a hand on her.  Wait - she was actually in an abusive relationship where she was physically harmed.   But it's not an inconsistency!  Lisa actually meant that when Brandi slapped her, no other female co-star had ever laid hands on her.  I don't like sacred cows.

And yes, Sonja talked about being bent over with her head in the bushes.  But I think she meant "doggy style".  

[LIMOM]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I was wondering if there was more to it than that b/c I thought she said she didn't know he was married.

I thought that if Heather noticed the ring so did Luann imo.