Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Churchhoney]

Relevance to Jerick? They want to be treated like missionaries without having to do anything hard, like go to school, or, you know, help people.

 

True, although, I guess, not completely true if you consider conversion to be helping people and, in fact, the best of helping people. If you'll notice, the IMB doesn't suggest that these pre-missionaries look for people with any kind of practical needs at all. Everything they suggest involves finding people who may be ripe for conversion and sticking to those people like glue until you convert them.

 

In fact, I'd argue that it pretty much recommends targeting people who are among the less needy -- like university students, people who are interested in sports programs and business opportunities. It definitely doesn't say, Go to the poor, the sick, the old, the homeless, the outcasts and do practical things to ease their burdens.

 

The only practical activity I notice for these apprentices is practical accounting and logistics work to support the full-fledged missionaries themselves. When it comes to the local people, as I read it, it pretty much says, Go to the rising middle class and convince them to convert.    

 

So if that's your standard -- and it appears to be IMB's -- Derick has been helping people, I think.   So he's not an outlier. He's with the program, I think.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[charmed1]

I live in Chicago too and know exactly what you are talking about. I have seen many Latinos being converted out of Catholicism to evangelical fundy type or better yet Jehovah's Witness'. I too find it strange.

I'm late to the party, but I live in DC and we have a large Salvadoran population here. And yes, lots of them are in fundie type sects. You can't throw a rock and not hit a van with Iglesia Pentecostal written on the side of it. Edited October 8, 2015 by charmed1

[Oldernowiser]

True, although, I guess, not completely true if you consider conversion to be helping people and, in fact, the best of helping people. If you'll notice, the IMB doesn't suggest that these pre-missionaries look for people with any kind of practical needs at all. Everything they suggest involves finding people who may be ripe for conversion and sticking to those people like glue until you convert them.

 

In fact, I'd argue that it pretty much recommends targeting people who are among the less needy -- like university students, people who are interested in sports programs and business opportunities. It definitely doesn't say, Go to the poor, the sick, the old, the homeless, the outcasts and do practical things to ease their burdens.

Okay, call me a cynic...but doesn't that boil down to, "annoy people until they convert because they might actually tithe but ignore those in real need because they have bupkis"?

It does occur to me that I might be mixing up missionary work with the Peace Corps or Doctors Without Borders or something where the focus is on helping people have a higher quality of life...food, shelter, drinkable water, health care...instead of just waving a book around and in essence saying, "Hey, yes, this all sucks! But great news, since you're that much closer to death, if you convert, Heaven will be a huge step up!"

I don't get it. But then I'm a heathen.

[Churchhoney]

Okay, call me a cynic...but doesn't that boil down to, "annoy people until they convert because they might actually tithe but ignore those in real need because they have bupkis"?

 

 

 

Well, I think you could see it that way. But I think you could also see it as converting people who are more likely to wield social influence and thus pave the way for more conversions and a more Christian-friendly or Christian-shaped society. ...

 

Could be either or both, I think.

 

Obviously I don't agree with doing this in the least. However, I also know that it's been part of Christian true-believerdom always, basically, and that they can clearly point to scripture that calls for it.

 

I mean, some of the convert-or-die stuff that's gone on for centuries has been just another means of conquest or pillage, but I really think some of it always has been and is today motivated by people's true belief that this is what the God of the whole universe wants. In other words, I don't think that everybody who believes that God commanded this kind of conversion has bad motives.... I find it hard to know what to think of or how to respond to the actions of people who do this but probably do it with good motives. Since I think it's plainly absurd and wrong, I could just say that. But my basis for judging what's ethical and reasonable has absolutely no relationship to their basis for doing so. So I think it's wrong. They think it's commanded.  I don't think that everybody who thinks it's commanded is lying. And I probably couldn't convince them that the basis for their ethics is wrong. But if I knew them, I'd try.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

Well, I think you could see it that way. But I think you could also see it as converting people who are more likely to wield social influence and thus pave the way for more conversions and a more Christian-friendly or Christian-shaped society. ...

 

...

 

Obviously I don't agree with doing this in the least. However, I also know that it's been part of Christian true-believerdom always, basically, and that they can clearly point to scripture that calls for it.

 

They got a fair amount of play out of Constantine.

[Churchhoney]

They got a fair amount of play out of Constantine.

 

True. Two (at least) can play at that game, though. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople, as they say.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

True. Two (at least) can play at that game, though. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople, as they say.

 

Nobody's business but the turks ;)

[JoanArc]

Nobody's business but the turks ;)

A gigantic nuclear furnace!

 

oops, wrong song.

[Julia]

A gigantic nuclear furnace!

 

and I"m your little glowing friend...

[JoanArc]

and I"m your little glowing friend...

You're not the boss of me now!

[GeeGolly]

The video of Jill bench pressing Iz & the photo of Michelle w/Iz & Mere were just posted, but they could have been taken days before. We have seen Jessa try and throw the public off track before with her posts and pics. So who knows where they are.

 

Just wanted to add that I would have less of a problem with evangelizing if it was heartfelt. Much of what I read about it, it seems they target (kind of a harsh word) vulnerable folks and do it with an all-knowing attitude with a little fear-based tactic mixed in. That to me is just wrong.

Edited October 8, 2015 by GeeGolly

[Missy Vixen]

My guess is that the recent send-off "celebration" was solely for the TLC cameras and they have no intention to go back to CA anytime soon, especially with Jessa's impending labor & delivery (and we know Jill will be portrayed as instrumental in that). Since everything on "reality" shows is filmed out of sequence and then strung together to create a false timeline**, that farewell party will most likely be depicted as preceeding the Dullards' first trip to Central America back in June.

 

If they go back before the first of the year, I'll be shocked. After all, they must be front and center for the cameras when Jessa Blessa gives birth. And I am also betting that Jilly Muffin is pregnant with Blessing #2, which means that she will need to be supervised by medical professionals since she didn't bother waiting the period of time quoted here previously between pregnancies, especially with a traumatic birth.

 

It'll be interesting to see how long they can stay out of sight -- ooops, out of camera range -- before they cook up yet another explanation as to why they are not "overseas" again.

[BitterApple]

How much time do they typically recommend between babies if you've had a c-section?

Should we take bets on when Jill will steal Jessa's shine with a Baby Dullard #2 announcement?

[doodlebug]

There have been studies concerning the optimal spacing between births.  It's not so much about the cesarean, the scar is about as strong as it'll ever be by 6-8 weeks after the surgery.  However, the general rule is that it is best to separate pregnancies by at least 9 months from the end of the first to the start of the next.  When there is less time between pregnancies, there is a significant risk of complications including preterm labor and birth as well as IUGR (intrauterine growth restriction, baby not growing properly).  There are studies that indicate that the risk of prematurity and IUGR each increase around 50% in closely spaced pregnancies.

 

Interestingly, these complications also start to increase, but not as much, when there is more than 5 years between pregnancies.  However, some of that increased risk can be attributed to more of the moms being over 35 with the second kid.

[BitterApple]

doodlebug, thanks for the info! I'm hoping Jill will listen to REAL medical professionals and do the smart thing, but I get the feeling she thinks her Kinko's diploma mill certificate puts her on the same level as an MD.

[Oldernowiser]

Can I just say that it's really ironic that this forum, which revolves around some of the most deliberately ignorant, close- minded, humorless, and bigoted people on the planet, has some of the most thoughtful, diverse, erudite, witty, and well-written commentary I've seen anywhere?

It's a pleasure to read...thank you all.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[JoanArc]

 

Should we take bets on when Jill will steal Jessa's shine with a Baby Dullard #2 announcement?

Ben: "Jessa, it's crowning! I can see the head!".

Jill's Voice On The House Intercom: "Can everyone come downstairs, I have an announcement!"

[Mollie]

Back on the subject of Derick, I'm wondering whether he was not, in fact, working under IMB auspices in Nepal after all, in their Journeyman program.

 

I understand what you are saying, but isn't the real point this:  Why do people have to guess and speculate?  Why doesn't Derick just be truthful and say who he was working with/for?

 

If someone says they are a missionary or humanitarian aid worker, most people expect a person like that to be honest.  The way I look at it, if Derick were working with a legit organization in Nepal, he would put that on his Linkedin page.  Linkedin is where people post their professional credentials. 

 

For example, if I said that I led groups of volunteers distributing food to hungry people in Nepal, that would leave a lot of real questions unanswered.  But, if I said that I was an employee of UNICEF and led volunteers distributing food to hungry people in Nepal, that's an entirely different credential, and one which could be verified.

 

My gut feeling is that if the guy were working in Nepal for IMB, he would have stated that.  IMB pays a salary to the people in its program, is a legitimate employer, and an affiliation with its program can be verified.

 

Check out this page: https://www.linkedin.com/title/missionary-at-international-mission-board

Edited October 9, 2015 by Mollie

[Purpose to defraud]

I agree the party was filmed strictly for content purposes. It makes no sense to have a 'going away party' a month before you actually leave. Considering they only gave people three days notice, I'm assuming most of the guests were local. It's not like Jill won't be running into them all over town within the next few weeks, so it was hardly a good-bye party.

Shouldn't be much of a problem. It doesn't look as if many people turned out.

[Churchhoney]

I understand what you are saying, but isn't the real point this:  Why do people have to guess and speculate?  Why doesn't Derick just be truthful and say who he was working with/for?

 

 

Well, see, I'm speculating that IMB may not want people who work with them in certain countries and under this "special access" thing to be particularly open about what they did. In fact, I think that's almost a given, based on this:

 

IMB brings in Journeyman -- young sort of apprentice missionaries who are college grads ages 21-26 -- under all kinds of guises when they're really there to act as missionaries:

 

"Creative Access

Creative Access helps you enter a culture that is closed to outsiders’ attempts to directly bring the Gospel to its people or is legally hesitant to allow an outsider to take up residence. Creative Access helps you get your foot in the door. Examples would be ESL training, sports, community development, business opportunities, etc."

 

http://www.imbstuden...px#.VhaSsiuW4o1

 

That's not Derick talking. That's what may be the world's largest missionary board. And they are flat out saying that some of these folks essentially sneak into countries that don't want missionaries to do missionary work under IMB auspices. People right in Derick's demographic group when he went, and people who do the exact stuff that he says he was doing.

 

If IMB is in fact doing this -- and they say right here on their website that they are -- they absolutely would not want someone later advertising on LinkedIn and television that he or she has participated in this. National governments are opposed to this. IMB, however, believes it's crucial to their mission, obviously. It's exactly like being "under deep cover" as a spy. And IMB -- not Derick -- will not want this to be widely discussed in public and certainly not broadcast or put in a cast-in-stone resume on the Internet.

 

I think that the Cross Church service recently was probably another evidence of this. He most likely did tell Cross Church people that he had already served in the apprentice-type capacity with IMB, and that's why they were willing to talk about him as a missionary at all, I posit.

 

However, telling them privately is not the same as broadcasting across all media that this is what he did. Why would he, personally, not want to say that he worked in an apprentice capacity with IMB, one of the world's most prestigious mission boards, if not the most prestigious? Again, I posit that he would. But I also posit that -- given how they tell us that they operate in many countries, likely including Nepal -- they ordered him not to make this public. To cloak it. For the sake of their mission and not having national governments subject many young people petitioning for entry visas to extra scrutiny when they're known to be American Protestants.

 

They very badly want to get people into those countries, obviously, because they flat-out tell people to lie in order to get in, under their "creative access" program. At the same time, national governments know the very long history of missions and conversion as tools of conquest (not necessarily in all missionaries' minds, but certainly in the minds of the larger cultures they represent), and are just as eager to keep too  much of this from happening. They may allow a certain number of missionaries in, but IMB clearly would like to flood countries with more missionaries and missionary helpers to get more work done -- hence, the "creative access" group and other "journeyman" in under student visas and so on.

 

If you sent out people under deep cover -- aka "creative access" -- for a mission you believed was of utmost importance to both Nepalis and the ultimate fate of the world in eternity, would you want your cover blown? No. Derick, who was returning to America to be on television, clearly was a huge threat to blow that cover, wittingly or unwittingly. So I posit that IMB told him to keep his participation in their program on the downlow. And, if he didn't, then he risked destroying even the possibility of a future relationship with them, I expect.

 

So -- my long-winded answer to "why would he lie?" is this: He was told to.

 

Do you think that there's another interpretation of "creative access" that would not entail lying? I admit that when I first saw "creative access" described, I couldn't get my mind around it either -- as an active policy of a 21st-century institution. But the more I thought about it, the less I could come up with any alternative explanation of it to the one I'm positing here. IMB sneaks some people into countries. And -- aside from alerting potential volunteers to that possibility, so they can participate in it -- they don't want to advertise it too loudly, because governments might then make stronger efforts to stop it.

 

I'm not saying that I think this is good. I'm saying that I believe, from all the evidence, that it is IMB's policy, written or, perhaps, unwritten. And that therefore we can't really blame Derick for it, because it's IMB's choice. Not his. .... NSA people don't tell anyone they work there either, and neither do many former CIA workers. I think IMB sees their work as the exact same thing, and, most likely, as being much more important, because it's work not for a single worldy national government but for Christ's eternal and universal kingdom.

 

Obviously I, personally, don't embrace this idea. I'm an atheist and a screaming liberal, as I've said here many times. But neither IMB nor Derick falls into those categories. So I'm sure that to them it seems like the right thing to do. Does it make Derick shady? I don't know. It does make him a person who follows the instructions of a former employer for whom he might aspire to work again, though, and a former employer whom he believes to be divinely inspired and working in the best interests of God. So there's that.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

So, say he was on some kind of undercover semi sorta not really mission on Nepal and from your usual highly intelligent and thoughtful analysis, I can see that happening. I still roll my eyes at the belief that this purely "spiritual" relief work is somehow worth breaking laws for, but whatever...

Does that translate into some kind of legitimate request for funds for the "mission" to CA, which mostly seems to involve flying back and forth? Am I missing something?

[Purpose to defraud]

So, say he was on some kind of undercover semi sorta not really mission on Nepal and from your usual highly intelligent and thoughtful analysis, I can see that happening. I still roll my eyes at the belief that this purely "spiritual" relief work is somehow worth breaking laws for, but whatever...

Does that translate into some kind of legitimate request for funds for the "mission" to CA, which mostly seems to involve flying back and forth? Am I missing something?

I think it is two different issues, why his story changed about Nepal was one. Churchhoney I think explained that one, makes sense.

 

Your other question is also mine, do they still feel entitled to go to CA to bother the Catholics? And will donations or TLC pay for it? Will they need a house, without a church backing them logistics might be difficult. Of course, given whom we're talking about they will probably stay in a five star hotel.

[flyingdi]

Maybe we were wrong and it wasn't a going away party at all. Maybe it was an"Oh my gosh, you came back party!"

[kandinski]

I imagine parties of any kind are meaningless to them 22 birthdays a year,gender reveals...going away to beg for money parties,it must be one a week!

[Churchhoney]

So, say he was on some kind of undercover semi sorta not really mission on Nepal and from your usual highly intelligent and thoughtful analysis, I can see that happening. I still roll my eyes at the belief that this purely "spiritual" relief work is somehow worth breaking laws for, but whatever...

Does that translate into some kind of legitimate request for funds for the "mission" to CA, which mostly seems to involve flying back and forth? Am I missing something?

 

Well, from the point of view of people who believe that there is nothing more important than for as many people as possible to have a "right relation" to Jesus -- then that's more worth breaking laws for than anything else. National governments' laws are "worldly" and therefore must fall before the laws of Christ's kingdom, in their view. And Christ's kingdom is based on everybody having the right slant on faith. (And I think that, in their minds, this absolutely gives them the right to convert Catholics -- or, in deed, anyone who believes in any religious sect other than theirs. So -- yes, you want to convert Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Seventh Day Adventists, etc., alongside Jews, Buddhist, atheists, animists... If you believe in the primary importance of conversion as a mission, then all that conversion activity is not only legit but required by your Christian faith.)

 

And I would bet that at Cross Church it does translate into some -- sort of covert -- support. IMB is Southern Baptist Convention and Cross Church's minister is the SBC president. So since Derick has already been in IMB's sort of apprentice program (I conclude), then it makes sense to me (for the first time) why Cross Church would have given Derick their unofficial but rather prominent blessing for his future work. They couldn't actually commission him or officially fund him, cause he's not IMB currently and because (I conclude) on IMB's orders he's keeping their name out of it. But he is a member of their congregation who's been working with IMB in the recent past (in a stealth capacity), so I'd bet that in their minds it's appropriate to acknowledge him as a missionary and perhaps potentially encourage congregants to make some private donations.

 

At the point at which the church did this, they had no way of knowing -- and probably still have no way of knowing -- how the money is spent. Maybe the Dillards have used their own cash to buy airplane tickets. Cross Church doesn't know if they have and, actually, neither do I.  Maybe they believe that Derick and Jill's own money has paid for the tickets. I wouldn't give cash for a conversion-first-and-foremost mission in any case, but many Cross Church people clearly would. The stuff on the IMB site makes quite clear that they too embrace the conversion-first-and-foremost principle. ...I think that the current group Derick and Jill are working with -- S.O.S. -- looks like a like scam. But I can't prove it, and it probably looks like less of a scan to people who believe in conversion-first-and-foremost missions, and the Cross Church people do. ... And maybe Derick and Jill sold them on the idea that they're soon going to strike out on their own and leave that group. They do seem to imply that. And the Cross Church minister knows that Derick is IMB-trained to some extent -- at least to the point of having spent two years working on the qt under their auspices (I've concluded.)

 

I obviously don't accept these people's premises, so I don't arrive at their conclusions about what's legitimate and what's not, just as you don't. But I do think that if we want to understand what someone is doing, it's important to figure out what their premises are, if any.

 

Here we've got three agents -- IMB, Derick and Cross Church -- who, I think, take as a premise that conversion missions are the most important things you can do. So in their eyes, a lot of things are legitimate that are not legitimate in our eyes. I mean, this is the basis of the whole argument about secular humanists that conservative Christians make. I take it as a premise that the human welfare of regular people is the most important thing for humans to worry about and try to promote. And that makes me a "secular humanist" and means that when I look at "missions" I want to see people helping humans in human ways. But that's not the way many conservative Christians look at missions, because they consider the human welfare of people as, at best, a secondary consideration in the world. For them, the single most important value -- eclipsing all others -- is bringing people to faith in Christ. So their view of what constitutes a legitimate mission is going to be completely different from my idea, since I can look at their missions only as a complete outsider, a secular humanist whose values and premises not only differ from but are very much at odds with their values and premises. Ditto for human laws -- I see them as trumped only by the welfare of humans (I'm a humanist) but they see them as trumped by the imperatives of Christ''s kingdom -- which include the paramount importance of missions to convert.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

I'm sure the media will sniff around enough and force the Dillard's missionary hand, so to speak. We'll know everything soon enough. They lie all the time, but lack the life skills to be really good at it.

[Churchhoney]

I'm sure the media will sniff around enough and force the Dillard's missionary hand, so to speak. We'll know everything soon enough. They lie all the time, but lack the life skills to be really good at it.

 I kind of doubt that they will, on this one. But I can see it going two ways.

 

If I'm even halfway near the truth, examining the Dillards in this case would mean calling into question the "creative access" idea and activities plainly promoted by IMB. This would mean not sniffing out some "lie of omission potentially being told by reality-tv people that we now have decided we should write a lot of salacious stories about" but a potential lie-for-God being told by a very large, very well-established, very well-respected Protestant denomination's mission wing.

 

If somebody discovers that he actually was working fully or sort of under IMB auspices, then I actually don't think there's a chance in hell that any U.S. media organization -- tab or traditional -- will pay the least attention to it or raise any questions at all about why he isn't telling us that flat out. Because if I turn out to be right, examining the issue would mean questioning an establishment principle of the conservative branch of America's longstanding Protestant majority. Raising complex and deep questions about what's appropriate for mission groups to do when it comes to the laws of other sovereign nations.

 

If I'm wrong, though, and somebody is able to turn up evidence that he was working for some other more fly-by-night group or on his own, or something, then, yeah, people will probably be tracking it down and be on him about it. ... Even there, though, I think it depends on how fly-by-night the other group would be. I don't see any American media examining a reality-tv person over his ties to a Christian "ministry" or "mission" that has any degree of validity in the eyes of any American church, actually. I supposed it's possible that one outlet somewhere might do so, but then I still expect that what would happen is the same thing that's happened to various journalistic forays into examining the Gothard group over the years. One outlet does a story, and everybody else totally ignores it.

 

Afflicting the comfortable and powerful is not something the American media is very interested in doing, especially when the comfortable and powerful are Christians, especially Protestants. Too much outcry from the comfortable for too little return on the investment.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Churchhoney

[louannems]

https://instagram.com/p/8lyWX-LsxR/

Aww The little one is teething on a sub!

[JoanArc]

 

I kind of doubt that they will, on this one. But I can see it going two ways.

I understand your post but I wasn't clear. Frankly, I don't care what Derick was up to in Nepal. Secret agent or just lost post-grad kid, doesn't really matter. I care about the scam that's being run right now by the Dillards and SOS. It is dishonest an needs to be exposed before Jill gets her very own TV special. FFS show us an accounting of where the money's going. I don't like their gifting lifestyle. This is charity scam, not a commentary on the mission field in general.

 

 

Aww The little one is teething on a sub!

So a victim of this summer's prominent gross sex scandal went to the restaurant who's mascot was involved in the summer's other prominent gross sex scandal. Mmmkay.

Edited October 9, 2015 by JoanArc

[Churchhoney]

I understand your post but I wasn't clear. Frankly, I don't care what Derick was up to in Nepal. Secret agent or just lost post-grad kid, doesn't really matter. I care about the scam that's being run right now by the Dillards and SOS. It is dishonest an needs to be exposed before Jill gets her very own TV special. FFS show us an accounting of where the money's going. I don't like their gifting lifestyle. This is charity scam, not a commentary on the mission field in general.

 

 

 

Okay, I see! ...

 

But, yeah, i don't think there's much chance of this one being examined either. S.O.S. -- for all that it looks like a horrifying scam to us -- seems to be fully accepted by a lot of U.S. church people. Because how else would they get all those people coming down on missioncations? Those people are coming from established churches, established colleges, across the heartland of the good old U.S.A. They're plain old 'Murcans of the Protestant stripe, many of them college students, and they firmly believe that doing mime in Central America is doing God's work. That being the case, I would be absolutely shocked if the media actually looked at S.O.S.

 

I think they'll throw plenty of shade at the way Jill and Derick have personally used their money. But, as with the Nepal issue, I really really doubt that they'll ask a single question about the organizations that are involved. Jill and Derick are "reality tv personalities" so we can attack them. But we don't attack institutions that are even vaguely part of the mainstream, for the most part.

 

It's like Bruno Iksil, the London Whale, pretty much taking the fall for the entire banking industry.

 

Honestly, I think we ought to care way more about the Nepali issue. Because this isn't some little fly-by-night "ministry" that takes vacations. This is wholesale 'lying for God" by a premiere institution. I think the ethics and consequences of that are well worth examining. But I don't expect anybody to do it.

[Patricia07]

Maybe we were wrong and it wasn't a going away party at all. Maybe it was an"Oh my gosh, you came back party!"

 

The photo was on Dan Dillard's instagram and he said that it was a "going-away party" and that he was "sad to see them go."

[CofCinci]

Did Subway pay them for that social media exposure?

[Julia]

Did Subway pay them for that social media exposure?

 

Well, they haven't shown very good judgment in the past, but I have trouble believing in the wake of that they decided to go with "And hey, speaking of molesting children..."

[Churchhoney]

The photo was on Dan Dillard's instagram and he said that it was a "going-away party" and that he was "sad to see them go."

 

Well, they probably left the room. Maybe he was sad about that. 

 

And another person becomes part of the "I have to falsify my life and my feelings because of teevee" miasma. Constantly lying and constantly having to figure out what lie is needed in each situation has got to be very very bad for people.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Patricia07]

Well, they probably left the room. Maybe he was sad about that. 

 

And another person becomes part of the "I have to falsify my life and my feelings because of teevee" miasma. Constantly lying and constantly having to figure out what lie is needed in each situation has got to be very very bad for people.

 

Actually, I think they were seen in Silver Dollar City after this, weren't they?  

[Churchhoney]

Actually, I think they were seen in Silver Dollar City after this, weren't they?  

 

Yeah, that rings a bell (or a silver dollar).

[kokapetl]

https://instagram.com/p/8lyWX-LsxR/

Aww The little one is teething on a sub!

Subway? Didn't anyone tell them?

[Churchhoney]

Subway? Didn't anyone tell them?

 

They don't look at the evil media. They just make all their money by being broadcasters on the evil media.

[Oldernowiser]

Hey, they probably figure that Subway now has a job opening for some wholesome family values...

[Missy Vixen]

I am a former fundie who used to participate in my church's evangelizing efforts. In those days, the program was called Discipleship Dynamics, and one would show up at the home of visitors to the church to "win them for Christ". We were told that lying about our intention to visit was "heavenly deception".

 

In other words, I'm not surprised at all that shading of the truth for their purposes seems to be acceptable to the group involved and to derickdillardduggar; after all, the truth is for those who aren't trying to win the lost... I am blown away, however, that he felt stating that he and his wife were "commissioned" by Cross Church on his social media was a smart thing to do.

[BitterApple]

The Duggars' total lack of awareness is why this forum is chugging ahead at full steam even though the show isn't currently on the air. The snark material this family hands us on a daily basis is like a well that never runs dry.

Maybe Jared can be pen pals with Smuggar.

Edited October 9, 2015 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

I am a former fundie who used to participate in my church's evangelizing efforts. In those days, the program was called Discipleship Dynamics, and one would show up at the home of visitors to the church to "win them for Christ". We were told that lying about our intention to visit was "heavenly deception".

 

In other words, I'm not surprised at all that shading of the truth for their purposes seems to be acceptable to the group involved and to derickdillardduggar; after all, the truth is for those who aren't trying to win the lost... I am blown away, however, that he felt stating that he and his wife were "commissioned" by Cross Church on his social media was a smart thing to do.

 

Yeah, me, too. I think that's by far the most outrageous thing he's done. I'm surprised that he didn't think carefully and choose way better words on that one.

[Missy Vixen]

Yeah, me, too. I think that's by far the most outrageous thing he's done. I'm surprised that he didn't think carefully and choose way better words on that one.

It was code. He knows damn well what the word "commissioned" means to the average church-going Christian. And I'd love to see how much their donations increased as a result.

[Churchhoney]

It was code. He knows damn well what the word "commissioned" means to the average church-going Christian. And I'd love to see how much their donations increased as a result.

 

Yeah, I suppose that's it. I just hate to always come to conclusions like that! So I still hold out a teensy smidgen of hope that because he's sort of a weenie who'd be afraid of getting called out by Cross Church for lying, he wrote it in an inadvertent rush of stupidity caused by the quasi-fulfillment of one of his probable lifelong dreams -- being truly commissioned by Cross Church as a full-fledged IMB-approved missionary. ..... Derick seems to so much want to be part of things that are bigger than himself, from the FBI to the Duggar family to the Baptist missions, that I can kind of see him getting carried away with that and just being stupid.

 

But unfortunately I expect you're right about which explanation is correct. And, I agree, really outrageous because it's so blatantly untrue. And because, whatever his reason for writing it, it certainly would have had exactly the effect you say it would.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Julia]

Not that it's any excuse, but it seems to me that the environment he's gotten himself stranded in has a real problem grasping the whole "words mean things" thing.

[JenCarroll]

Derick seems to so much want to be part of things that are bigger than himself, from the FBI to the Duggar family to the Baptist missions, that I can kind of see him getting carried away with that and just being stupid.

That's a great insight about Derick. And in college, he was an integral part of the Athletic Department as Pistol Pete. In that role he didn't have to make a lot of decisions; he was told where to go and what to do, but his presence was important to university life. I think that fits perfectly with Derick's personality -- he's a follower who wants to be part of something important.

Edited because spelling is also a thing.

Edited October 9, 2015 by JenCarroll

[Mollie]

@Churchhoney
From what I have found – and I didn't search too deeply – IMB has no problem openly stating that it sends missionaries to Nepal:
http://www.imbstudents.org/HandsOn.aspx#.Vhf3cuyqooI
https://www.pinterest.com/IMB_SouthAsia/people/

 

And, the Dillard's Church in Arkansas (Cross Church), has no qualms about discussing IMB missionaries to Nepal:
https://www.facebook.com/CrossChurchPeople/posts/965055330192991

 

So, I don't buy the story that it is top-secret, clandestine work.  Nepal isn't Saudi Arabia; there are Christian churches in Nepal and being a Christian or a Christian missionary is not illegal.
I think Derick just likes to pretend he's on dangerous, top secret missions, like this post he made on his blog on July 5: "For security purposes, at this time, we’re not publicly discussing specific times and places of international service."  The day he posted that, he and Jill were already in El Salvador on a very public volunteer tour with S.O. S. Ministries, and the other volunteers were taking pictures and posting to their social media pages and blogs.

 

And it's the same thing with the two-week stay in Guatemala to take Spanish lessons.  Derick never admitted that they were in Guatemala, but pictures of them were shot by fellow American tourists who were also in Antigua. 

 

Maybe in his own mind he works for the FBI, carries his Pistol Pete gun, and can't discuss his whereabouts.  In my opinion, what he really is: a master if disinformation.  And the reason he got the jaw surgery and his front teeth chiseled down is that he is going undercover. Next, he'll be sporting a Jim Bob wig and a nice shirt and tie like the Mormon missionaries.

[JoanArc]

 

Next, he'll be sporting a Jim Bob wig and a nice shirt and tie like the Mormon missionaries.

More like going in on a sting at 1313 Mockingbird Lane.

[Churchhoney]

@Churchhoney

From what I have found – and I didn't search too deeply – IMB has no problem openly stating that it sends missionaries to Nepal:

http://www.imbstudents.org/HandsOn.aspx#.Vhf3cuyqooI

https://www.pinterest.com/IMB_SouthAsia/people/

 

And, the Dillard's Church in Arkansas (Cross Church), has no qualms about discussing IMB missionaries to Nepal:

https://www.facebook.com/CrossChurchPeople/posts/965055330192991

 

So, I don't buy the story that it is top-secret, clandestine work.  Nepal isn't Saudi Arabia; there are Christian churches in Nepal and being a Christian or a Christian missionary is not illegal.

I think Derick just likes to pretend he's on dangerous, top secret missions, like this post he made on his blog on July 5: "For security purposes, at this time, we’re not publicly discussing specific times and places of international service."  The day he posted that, he and Jill were already in El Salvador on a very public volunteer tour with S.O. S. Ministries, and the other volunteers were taking pictures and posting to their social media pages and blogs.

 

And it's the same thing with the two-week stay in Guatemala to take Spanish lessons.  Derick never admitted that they were in Guatemala, but pictures of them were shot by fellow American tourists who were also in Antigua. 

 

Maybe in his own mind he works for the FBI, carries his Pistol Pete gun, and can't discuss his whereabouts.  In my opinion, what he really is: a master if disinformation.  And the reason he got the jaw surgery and his front teeth chiseled down is that he is going undercover. Next, he'll be sporting a Jim Bob wig and a nice shirt and tie like the Mormon missionaries.

 

You're not telling me anything that I don't know. I never said that there were no open IMB missionaries in Nepal. In fact, I said that there clearly were -- but that IMB also makes very plain that they want more people on sites than they can get officially IMB-related visa permissions for, so they have constructed other programs that help them get those additional people -- sometimes by having those people lie to get in. 

 

Everything you've posted is about completely different programs than the ones I've been writing about-- some of them involving people who are full-fledged IMB missionaries who they obviously send in with missionary-related visas. It seems as if you've not read a word of the stuff that I've found and posted, since you're not addrressing it at all. I'm not talking about people who are officially missionaries or the people volunteering in the short-term programs you've also linked to in this post. I'm talking about the pre-missionaries -- the missionary apprentices, the not-qualified-for-missionaries young people who work as support staff.

 

I'm talking specifically about the two-year "Journeyman" program in which some people participate under  "creative access." This particular program is clearly a way to send more people than countries (such as Nepal) would accept in the above-ground IMB missionary staffs or on six-month tourist-type visas. And everything about this program sounds exactly like what Derick did and how he describes it now, on LinkedIn. To supplement those staffs with worker bees, they clearly send people into countries under cover  -- "creative access" -- to assist the regular missionaries. And those people are clearly told to make up another reason for being in the country. 

 

There's only one way to interpret this:  "Creative Access helps you enter a culture that is closed to outsiders’ attempts to directly bring the Gospel to its people or is legally hesitant to allow an outsider to take up residence. Creative Access helps you get your foot in the door. Examples would be ESL training, sports, community development, business opportunities, etc."

 

This is a particular two-year program for college graduates ages 21 to 26 in which they are directed to go into the country under a false pretense in order to beef up the ranks in that country of people who are there officially and above-board under the IMB banner. That's what I'm talking about -- as I've posted over and over, so I'm going to stop now. .... And the other programs you mention here have no bearing on this program.

 

You're at liberty to believe whatever you want about what Derick's doing. But, in fact, there is a two-year IMB program in which 21 to 26 year old college graduates are instructed to lie in exactly the way he's lied about his Nepal experience. I choose to believe that he probably participated in that program! But, of course, it's also possible that he did something entirely different. .

 

http://www.imbstudents.org/programs/jman/1023.aspx#.VhgmWSuW4o0

 

[Mollie]

I'm talking specifically about the two-year "Journeyman" program in which some people participate under  "creative access." This particular program is clearly a way to send more people than countries (such as Nepal) would accept in the above-ground IMB missionary staffs or on six-month tourist-type visas. And everything about this program sounds exactly like what Derick did and how he describes it now, on LinkedIn. To supplement those staffs with worker bees, they clearly send people into countries under cover  -- "creative access" -- to assist the regular missionaries. And those people are clearly told to make up another reason for being in the country.

"Creative Access Entities (CAEs) allow IMB personnel to gain sustainable access to unreached people groups who desperately need the Gospel. These CAEs involve a broad range of business ventures that are suitable to the local market, including microloans and medical programs. Not only do CAEs provide a sustainable source of income, they give unreached people a chance to hear and respond to the call of salvation."

https://www.mnnonline.org/news/local-believers-follow-up-on-imbs-creative-access-ministry

http://www.imb.org/giving/strategicprojectneedsview.aspx?id=LMC3601409#.Vhgu0uyqooI

 

The "Creative Access" program is about setting up business ventures.  Again, there is nothing clandestine about the program.

 

"Creative Access Coordinator: The Creative Access Coordinator will assist in identifying and creating new business entities for the purpose of providing a legitimate means for field workers to live in a country. This will include developing new business plans, training field personnel on how to run a business and reviewing ways to improve an existing business’s methods of operations. Business background and experience in numerous fields is needed."

http://www.imb.org/go/projects.aspx

 

That's not what Derick said he was doing at all.  He said on Linkedin that he took people on month-long treks in the Himalayas.