Proper Importation: How to Make an American Bake Off

[Athena]

This thread is for discussion on how you would like an American Bake Off or Baking Show to be. This can include what works and what hasn't worked with the versions that have aired and any wishlist issues you have concerning the structure, judges, and any other show aspects.

For ideas and those lucky enough to have seen other international bake offs, see the Other Bake Offs and Show Recs thread.

 

[ABay]

No manufactured drama, no sob stories or stories about how what they've made is inspired by a dead relative, no massive cash prize.

The U.S. is too vast for bakers to go home and practice between weekends, if it's a national competition, But I wonder if/wish they could do regional ones and move around season to season. I think GBBO did something like that in the first series, but they moved somewhere different every week. What I'm thinking is that year 1, they set up in New England, year 2 Pacific Northwest, year 3 Great Lakes region, like that. So the geography allows people to practice at home between weekends.

[rab01]

I think that's exactly right ABay. This show is fundamentally different from US shows in three ways - time to practice and decompress, no money on the line, and no fake drama.  Keep those three things and you can change a lot of other things while making an American version that works quite nicely. Sacrificing a fully national collection of candidates is a small price to pay (also, it would give each season a nice built-in differentiation).

[Enigma X]

I am fairly new to this show and forum. (Only a week old with both.) I see that Australia has a version (judging from the forum thread). Although, Australia is not as big as the U.S., I would think it is big enough that some of the same problems the U.S. would have with getting people who can commute they have. Actually Britain is fairly huge for commuting. I am sure that people living far north in Scotland or in Northern Ireland would have to get closer accommodations or have them provided. Again, I am not sure how any versions of the show handle it but would think this would not be any different for a U.S. version.

[Kohola3]

Quote

A friend of mine loves how he screws with contestants and revels in making them uncomfortable: "Oh, you're doing it that way? Good luck." Unlike her, I find this off-putting and affected. It's the one American element of the show, his version of the Colicchio Sniff and Sneer. 

My feeling exactly.  I have an active dislike of his arrogance.  Perhaps he acts more like some of the American judges.  Mary has proven that a soft spoken criticism is doable and probably appreciated.  I hate it how he makes the contestants second-guess themselves in an already tense situation.

[tenativelyyours]

Even a regional season would be problematic I think for me.  I love the wide variance of baking that the original and the Aussie reboot provide.  I do want it done American in terms of taste and food culture but more towards tapping into the origins that are often deeply rooted in classical European pastry. 

How it might work is if they took over some sort of seasonal resort in the off season.  Pump a little cash into the place's economy and set each contestant up in their own little cabin with a kitchen to practice during the week.  But avoid having them forced to stay with each other and delve into the whole drama/conflict that even shows like Top Chef when it is at its best still suffers.   I'm not sure how the reboot of the Aussie version did their cast.  They had a widely arrayed pool when it came to geography that clearly were not of the go home for the week type.

 

Not even no big cash prize, no cash prize.  Maybe if it is a network CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX you could toss in a certain number of segments on their morning news show.  And maybe have everyone that makes it to the tent or barn or whatever get a new set of whatever appropriate sponsors they can coral.  Kitchenaid, Gold Medal flour etc. 

Buck the trend a little and go with personality over 'comic'.  I would be fine if they brought back Jeff Foxworthy.  I thought he did a really good job.  But if not him maybe poach Ted Allen from the Food Network.  Someone genial, witty but low key.  Also someone that really eats.  I don't want some pretty face who opens wide with a too many toothed grin and clearly doesn't even inhale the scent of the stuff.  And get the right person and you don't need two.  Though I think where two does help is that they can divide and tackle the during-task chattering.    Its not always immediately noticeable but this means that you get to see and hear the contestants all at a closer mark to their work.  With just one, by the time s/he got to the last that contestant might already be past the point that for me makes it interesting.  Because I get to see and hear their thoughts at close to the same stage of work with two shifting through the lot separately.

 

And the reasons above are pretty much my main dislike of Paul.  I think he plays too much and I like judges that are a little more removed if you will.  Though no Mary Berry, I think Maggie Beers and Matt do a much better job than Paul does.  They tease but it is much more in fun with the whole contest and made the second season/reboot of the Aussie show one of my favorite seasons of the entire franchise no matter what nation involved. 

 

For judges I would say Martha Stewart and Johnny from the American Christmas attempt and Top Chef/Desserts  Martha is pedantic but that is a nice trait to have for this type of show.  She also has wit and has aged nicely in the self-deprecating dept.  Johnny always seems just nice as well as really enjoying his field of craft.  Yet still doesn't take any shit either.  I thought he worked well with Mary but also there was a bit of forced interplay that the show put on them.  They rose above it and it was not the fault of either.  It just was the oddness of trying to do be a part of the British flavor and still be American at the same time.

 

Do not.  Do not.  DO NOT have it on the Food Network.  They will ruin it.  As will even the slightest brush with the likes of either Mark Burnett or Gordon Ramsey. 

In an ideal world NPR and Charlie Rose would executive produce it.  Though Martha Stewart might be a good one to bring it an American sensibility with the classical foundation I think it would need to appeal to me.

And no tie ins.  Not a one.  That means no celebrity judge selling his latest movie and some huge reach to incorporate it with the theme of that week's challenges.  Nope.  No a one.  Don't care if it is Idris Elba and Henry Cavill staring in a movie called Licking the Frosting from My Bare Body.  I...nope.  I stand firm.  I do.  Really. 

[fib]

No Martha.  She is awful.  And in my opinion, her wittiness is scripted.  If you've ever seen her on an episode of her cooking show where she 'improved' a recipe from her celebrity guest and they kind of tell her that she's ruined it, she was hoorible.  I remember a particularly awkward episode of a show where she reworked Shania Twain's vegetarin Poutine.  

So… My judge recommendations are Ted Allen and Nigella Lawson.  Nigella is beloved, loves to eat, and is witty and warm.  Both have cooking cred and name recognition.  I also think Jacques Pepin would work.  Alternately, maybe Michael Pollen? 

I think maybe the way to do it nationwide is to do it every other weekend… In a central and esy to fly into location with some food cred - Chicago? Memphis? 

[Rinaldo]

I've adored Ted from the first, and he could be a fine host, but a judge of baking specifically? Including that special world of bread baking? That's not his expertise as a practitioner. 

The more I think about it, the more I can't see it working geographically in the US; the distances are too big, on a different scale, for bakers to travel sensibly back and forth each week. Although I was one of the ones who first imagined an American version here, I've now changed my mind. I don't think it can be done.

[SirOsisOfLiver]

If it can work in Australia, why couldn't it work in the U.S.? For me, it's entirely possible, as long as, (a) Don't cast assholes and (b) Don't show drama, even if it happens.

Contestants on Masterchef Australia live in the same house for MONTHS. If they have any drama, we don't see it. Great Aussie bake off worked because the people were nice and helpful to each other.

American producers think we all want to see screeching backstabbing bozos. The love for GBBO would seem to indicate that the problem with American shows isn't Americans, it's the casting and editing. Distance isn't the issue. Casting from the same flawed premise is the issue.

[tenativelyyours]

I agree.  Casting is the issue and the self-Fufilling prophecy approach that heavily contrived dramatic narrative is what the viewing audience desires.  Distance can be tweaked and shifted.  Heck the economy is still in enough recovery mode that somewhere are a bunch of finished houses empty and unsold that they could take over for ten weeks and each person have their own full sized kitchen in some mcmansion the credit crises built.

Nigella Lawson I find not only not American, but incredibly phony.  Her over thrusting bosoms would only be in the way here.  Her coy simpering looks of faux arch naughtiness and trying to dredged her finger into whatever is handy so she can then suck on it as she gives the camera her attempt at sultry side gazing would be just as annoying as Paul trying to play with the contestants.  Perhaps more so.  I find her vacuous and lacking any charms.  As an an authority I think most of her aimed for audience would want to see her balance two pastries on her tits.  I can see Stewart being disliked but I find her level of authority and knowledge makes Lawson as judge in a baking show the equivalent of Kelly Osborne on a fashion show. 

 

Ted Allen in my mind would the host.  I don't think he brings enough experience as a judge either. 

[snarktini]

2 hours ago, SirOsisOfLiver said:

If it can work in Australia, why couldn't it work in the U.S.? For me, it's entirely possible, as long as, (a) Don't cast assholes and (b) Don't show drama, even if it happens.

You just described why it won't work in the U.S. Forget the logistics, they just don't make reality shows here that don't cast assholes or play up the drama. 

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, fib said:

Alternately, maybe Michael Pollen? 

He'd probably shame everyone for using too many nonplant products.

Martha would ding people for not doing something the way she thinks (sorry, knows; it's Martha!) is right.

If you're going to have an American show, I think you must have American judges.

[Lamb18]

I don't think it would work for an American show to have people go home for a week and compete on weekends. I don't think production would want to pay for the travel and I don't think most people would pay for it. However, you could shoot the competition itself in a month, but to allow for practice time, send the signature and showstopper bake challenges to the contestants 2 - 3 months ahead of time. Of course there would have to be ironclad contracts regarding spoilers, etc., but that way people would have time to plan and practice and get their lists of ingredients to the producers ahead of time. Everyone would get their list at the same time. The contestants would have to figure out how they would allot their time for each challenge. I'm going to copy over my post in another thread on a good location. Regarding judges, I wouldn't mind the three that are on Food Network for the baking competitions, Nancy, Duff and Lorraine. On our ideal baking show these three would just tone it down and be themselves. I like Nancy and Lorraine's mutual snarking while Duff just sits there and enjoys the goods. I like his commentary, too. However, I wouldn't want this to be on Food Network. PBS would be the ideal network. I'm sure they could get the funding for it. 

[Lamb18]

Quote

I think a charming American version could be done, but it has to be American charm, not British charm, if that makes sense. If you try to copy the British version exactly, then you just get a second-best (at best) version. You have to identify what's charming and lovable and translate it to the US. In thinking about it, I know the perfect place to shoot it, too! Out by where I live there is a working farm that is part of the regional park district. There are sheep and cows and pigs and chickens! There is a large building used for events - it looks like a giant barn - it's booked for weddings every weekend for sixth months of the year. It's large enough to hold all the stations and camera equipment, personnel, etc. There's also a nice flat grassy area that's not pasture that could also hold a large tent, but inside would be better. The closest lodging would be around 7 - 10 miles away.  The harder part, now, is to find hosts and judges that have the niceness of the British ones, although I thought Jeff was pretty nice. Oh, well, it's nice thing to think about at work instead of my actual work.

This is my post from the Biscuits thread that started this discussion. For anyone who lives in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, this location is Gale Woods Farm in Minnetrista, part of the Three Rivers Park District. Come check it out!

[tenativelyyours]

Yeah you could do it in four weeks probably.  Send the contestants fifty or sixty things that could be the signature and show stopper bakes.  That way they know and can practice for a set amount of time.  Even send out crews to film a couple of episodes (2?) in the field as it were.  The negative of course is one factor in the British show is that the contestants not only go home but also go back to their regular weekly lives which makes it both easier to decompress but adds a little extra pressure getting rather immediate feed back from family and friends.  The positive though is that as a viewing audience we could be introduced to them and get a little stronger sense of who they are and how they bake which could eliminate some of the background bits that get worked in and focus more on the baking competition itself. 

 

And in this day of social media I think the non-disclosure idea doesn't have to go into play.  Being picked as a contestant and having a few weeks of prep could work since contestants could twit, twat tweet and get a following and people interested.  I don't think it is a spoiler in the sense that it ruins the show if we know who is part of the contestant pool in advance.  One reason shows like Survivor etc do that is because they film all the episodes well in advance except the reveal and don't want people to be spoiled as to who leaves each week.  Here if it was filmed and aired in the way that the British show is, the only reveal they would need to keep covered up is the elimination for a couple of days.  As well knowing in advance for those type of shows, lets people who want to spoil the show and reveal keep and eye on who comes home when etc.  Again, with proper filming and airing that is not an issue. 

And I think that also is part of the appeal.  Quite simply the show doesn't have time to play stupid production games with narratives the way a full season of the usual US competitive reality shows do since a full season filmed makes easier to define and deliver whatever narrative they think gives the show drama and therefore buzz.

I'm an idealistic fool.  I think it could be done and rather easily if someone wanted to make the effort and put in a little thought.  Of course that is a huge problem I think with American reality tv right there.  The odds of it being done right just don't seem very good.  They made some huge weirdly obvious mistakes with the Holiday one even when they had a much greater idea of what and how an American audience is already responding to the British version.  When Jeff Foxworthy tried it most Americans likely had no idea what the show was about and CBS did a poor job of scheduling it and promoting it (plus it tried to be both the British version a little too much when it was not a selective but iconic hit in certain markets as it is now, as well as being a Top Chef type of cooking contest at the same time.)

[Rinaldo]

36 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

However, you could shoot the competition itself in a month, but to allow for practice time, send the signature and showstopper bake challenges to the contestants 2 - 3 months ahead of time. Of course there would have to be ironclad contracts regarding spoilers, etc., but that way people would have time to plan and practice and get their lists of ingredients to the producers ahead of time. Everyone would get their list at the same time. The contestants would have to figure out how they would allot their time for each challenge.  

The British show actually does all this now (I couldn't swear to 2-3 months being the time in advance, but it's well ahead so the bakers can get their lists in before shooting actually starts). The bakers still need the time in between to practice week by week.

[toodles]

On 7/22/2016 at 9:22 AM, snarktini said:

You just described why it won't work in the U.S. Forget the logistics, they just don't make reality shows here that don't cast assholes or play up the drama. 

And famewhores.  Don't forget the famewhores.

[starri]

On 7/23/2016 at 0:10 AM, forumfish said:

2) Sara Moulton would make a nice American version of Mary Berry -- well respected, and someone who takes her craft seriously but isn't stuffy. Johnny Iuzzini did well paired with Mary, I bet he and Sara would work well together, too. I don't care as much who the hosts would be, as long as Ted Allen isn't one of them. He's become too much of a "Food Network personality." The hosts shouldn't upstage the contestants or the food.

I would say Johnny and Martha Stewart.  I like Sara Moulton, but she's a little bland.  Martha has a pretty good sense of humor, and I could see her playing the same kind of mind games that Paul plays.  That would kind of invert the dynamic.  Also, I think of Sara as a chef, not a baker.

44 minutes ago, toodles said:

And famewhores.  Don't forget the famewhores.

I honestly did think the Great Holiday Baking Show did a good job of finding people who were there to impress with their baking, not their camera presence.  There was one rather notable exception, and while they did seem to go for Personalities, it wasn't nearly as bad as most of these.

[Kohola3]

No, please, no Martha!!

[vibeology]

I know she's probably not even close to famous enough in the US but Anna Olson. She has the skills. Her cookbooks are full of the sorts of things that make up technical challenges like tuile cookies, sacher tortes, hit cross buns, Yule logs, Mille Feuilles etc. She'd have to be paired with someone more famous to even make it a possibility but she'd be great. 

[larapu2000]

I think Gale Gand has the credibility and likeability to be a potential judge, even if she's a lesser name.  What about an Eli Zabar or someone that knows bread making like Paul?  I love Martha, I think she would enjoy the end results, I think she would enjoy the booze on a Mary Berry level.  There are also probably Beard award winners that aren't really famous yet that might be great options, too.  I'd rather go unknown and awesome than famous and lame.  

For hosts, I think Mindy Kaling or Anna Faris would be amazing, but probably too expensive.  Funny, adorable, and a documented love of food.  

I don't think travel is that big of a deal.  Contestants have to have a half day on Friday from their employers (I would think most employers would be excited and willing to lose a half day a week rather than several weeks at once) hold the competition near a major airline hub, (Chicago, Atlanta, Charlotte, Minneapolis), but someplace where altitude is not a factor, like Denver, so that travel options are maximized for contestants.  If you did Chicago, for example, flight time to the west coast is 4 hours and you gain time going that direction.  Some of the British contestants might spend that much time on a train, right?  Just film the show during historical lows of airline delays and cancellations, like avoiding summer or dead winter.  September through November is probably ideal, although April to May is generally not bad.  

I do think the show would benefit from regionalism, though.  Tastes and ingredients vary wildly due to the sheer size of the US, although that certainly adds to the fun!  

I'd love it if one week the category was just "fair food.". Talk about finding the American charm.

[dubbel zout]

Martha Stewart would never share the spotlight with someone on a show like this. Her ego wouldn't allow it. She'd have to be a special judge at the end or something like that.

[shandy]

 I think worries over hosts, judges and airline schedules are distractions over the real elephant in the room. TV production values. It goes right back to what ABay said about drama in the first post.  Even low key PBS has over the top trailers for PBSBakingShow that are a complete 180 from BBC trails. GBBO emphasizes community over drama, and while the real UK may have problems every bit as profound or worse than the real USA, GBBO is comfort TV that can reach for feels without story arcs or gimmicks because it showcases generosity in people. 

I think viewers are gasping for it. You only have to look at twitter - this show confounds the usual viewer demographic salami slicing US networks work hard to achieve - millennials, grandparents, people watching pbsbakingshow with their kids, even a preppy boys school had a pbsbakingshow inspired bake night.

[txvoodoo]

We're ready for NICE. 

I'm trying to think of more to say, but isn't that the crux of it? We're ready for niceness. Enough bombast, drama, meanness. We're ready for a show where the contestants just try to do their best, they're nice to each other, supportive, and it's fun. 

[3 is enough]

I want nice! That is why I was so drawn to the GBBO in the first place.  Everyone was so pleasant, and there was no drama.

I recently found the Great American Baking Competition online.  I had no idea how closely it followed the original model.  I think Jeff Foxworthy did a fine job as host, but some of the contestants were a little OTT for my taste.  There was an episode where one contestant helped another with choux dough, which was something you would see on the GBBO.  To be sure, adding a $250,000 cash prize and a cookbook deal totally changes the dynamics of the show and encourages a more cutthroat attitude among the contestants.

As far as judges go, I like the idea of Alton Brown or Ted Allen, but I have a hard time thinking of a female judge.    I would not object to Sara Moulton. Or forgo the female judge and have Alton and Ted.

Edited September 14, 2016 by 3 is enough

[txvoodoo]

On 9/14/2016 at 10:20 AM, 3 is enough said:

As far as judges go, I like the idea of Alton Brown or Ted Allen, but I have a hard time thinking of a female judge.    I would not object to Sara Moulton. Or forgo the female judge and have Alton and Ted.

Alex Guarnaschelli could do it. She can be really sweet, and she has credibility.

[GaT]

1 hour ago, txvoodoo said:

Alex Guarnaschelli could do it. She can be really sweet, and she has credibility.

No Chopped judges, I just can't.

[bad things are bad]

For a female judge (or two...no law says they can only have one) with cred, either Martha Stewart and/or Rose Levy Beranbaum