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Escaping Polygamy

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On 8/22/2016 at 9:51 AM, toodles said:

This episode seemed off to me.  The first mother (Shirley?) said she and her children were homeless.  But didn't they tell her not to worry about that before she left?  Why wasn't she living in one of those cute little little apartments they seem to have for everyone else?  Where were all the people that were supposed to be helping her?  And who funds all of this?   This is a big operation and that involves big bucks. 

These things make me go hmmmm.

I sure had the same hmmm moments! I'm like, "Where is the cool, well furnished apartment here?" Perhaps they are provided by their family members and she has none on the outside.

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On 8/23/2016 at 8:32 PM, daggoth said:

Yes, she did seem stressed and slightly manic. Perhaps through poor nutrition, abusive relationships, poverty, zero education, and the stress of always being pregnant, people's coping skills get eroded, and it won't always be pretty.  But I think her daughters know this won't be fixed in a day, and are doing their best. This really highlight how the church's neglect does lead to adverse mental health outcomes for the woman and children involved.

It amused me that they turned up at her old flat to pick up the piano and stove. Their car was already half full, with no trailer! So I guess they were just having a good snoop at Daniel's renovations for his next beloved wife.

About the FLDS Julie/Lizzie episode, it was obviously a fail, but I hope they keep tackling the FLDS. Lizzie preempted any planning they could do by leaving the cult early without any hint or preview. But I think they should have advised Lizzie earlier about her rights as a birth-mother, that if she could leave the FLDS with her smallest children, then later, she would be able to get access to her daughter via the courts/lawyers.

But given that Julie was defying her mother, I wish they had installed a hidden camera in the hotel room. They needed to know what was going on in there. But since they had no knowledge, they lost control of the situation.

So for the next FLDS breakout, I really hope they bring along FDLS escapee Rachel Jeffs - her input would be invaluable.

I remember watching a documentary years ago about a man who abducted/kidnapped his own brother from the Moonie cult. They held him prisoner in a hotel room for over 3 days, as a team of experts attempted to deprogram him. So it was highly illegal, but yes, he did get his brother back. Such that whenever you drag someone like Julie out of a cult, they will fight tooth and nail. Apostates represent an existential threat to their salvation. That is exactly what you would expect from someone like Julie.

I found that woman a bit off, too. Hard to believe someone who seemed rather demanding had allowed herself to be downgraded so. But I realize the whole milieu she has been in has a lot to do with it.

I was disgusted at how quickly and well that outfit managed to fix up that house when they wanted to. They deserve every bit of scorn they got from the Health Department and the viewing public as a whole for forcing her to live in that dump. That they made off with her piano was predictable, too. Humongous lowlifes. 

It was very difficult to watch the Lizzy/Julie episode. It's still sticking with me. I hope at some point Lizzy figures out that she is not worthless, that she deserves a real life, and most of all, that she will not be condemned by God for escaping this twisted perversion of Christianity.

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On 8/29/2016 at 0:22 AM, Dorne2.0 said:

It's like Warren wakes up every day and thinks, how can I make my followers lives worse? The man is a sadist, I bet he gets off on these awfuls things he orders them to do.

I agree. This despicable dude is evil through and through.

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New to the party...What's this about prairie dresses? I thought it was stated early on that the Kingston group dresses like mainstream people to blend in...

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9 minutes ago, Ziz said:

New to the party...What's this about prairie dresses? I thought it was stated early on that the Kingston group dresses like mainstream people to blend in...

The FLDS women dress in prairie style clothes, not the men. The women must wear long skirts, long underwear no matter how hot it is, never cut their hair and they must wear their hair in certain styles, all mandated by the "Prophet" Warren Jeffs.

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Its about time. Now if they would do that with the rest of them that have done this and do it here in the U.S. as well to all of those disgusting people doing the same....as well as charge the men they throw those young girls at.  

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Tonight's episode focuses on the stories of some of the escapee's lives after their escape. We see Aunt Kathy, Eskel, Lizzy and her defiant daughter Julie and sisters Vanna and Ariel. One of whom has a shocking secret.

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I just watched several episodes.  It seems to me that these escaped women are doing very well for themselves.  They have new cars and nice living arrangements.  We are told that most have only an education up to the 8th grade.  This leaves me wondering about what kind of great jobs are they doing with such resources available - and - what kind of job allows you to take off, day or night, on a random basis? 

Yes, we see that some have been able to go to college, but again, where does that money come from? 

Maybe this is explained in episodes that I have not yet seen.  If so, I apologize for wasting your time.  

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A couple links on the death. Really very sad situation. It was Susan Peterson btw.  Kolleen's mom's sister. 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865666323/Mother-son-killed-in-Carbon-County-second-son-arrested.html

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4675689-155/search-warrant-reveals-new-details-about

I am a bit surprised by the one that is pregnant. She seemed from the beginning so closed off from leaving and believing the truth on Jeffs. I wonder if her opinion of him has changed or not and how she ended up getting herself in that situation. I know that because they are not taught about things like birth control that those coming out of those cults won't understand that but whoever was with her probably knew better I would bet. Seems with her sister by her side though at least she has a support system to help her out. Its also something that these girls should be talked to about when they leave since the world outside the cults is so different. I am glad these shows are being done. It is suppose to be 4 parts. Its nice to see updates on the people and how they are doing. Seeing that Eskel is going to school and enjoying being able to just get to know his girlfriend unlike how it would have been for him is a good thing. The whole Lizzy/Julie situation is just so sad still. You could tell Lizzy was just so lost and the way Julie behaved was just disgusting. Its great she is with all her kids but sad they are still in that mess of a group and hidden away. 

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 The girls doing that show have been out for awhile. One is married with a family. One is in college in another state getting a law degree to help more on that side of things with this issue. Not sure what the other one does. Kolleen does modeling at times and I think something with selling makeup. She could be doing other things as well. Some of the ones escaping that had cars take them with them. Those ranged in different kinds of cars though and get set up in apartments. Which I am sure there is some sort of fund that helps get these people set up that way though and help get them on their feet. I am not sure what else they do aside from helping whoever escape but they all could have other things going on. As the update show on last night, they had one girl say how she works at a bakery. Her boyfriend drives her to work. I know they showed during the first season (if I remember right) trying to make sure those they help get a GED if they want or any other education. Things I wish they would show more of though as well. Oh and there was one girl that had a bunch of money in the cult's bank from an accident and she had wanted to take it all out but they couldn't do it all in one lump sum. Which I wonder if she ever got the rest of her money or bothered trying at all. 

BTW, I don't think you are wasting anyone's time in asking. Its a lot of just guessing really. Heck the show could be supplying them the cars just for the show and the ones they really have are different. 

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3 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

A couple links on the death. Really very sad situation. It was Susan Peterson btw.  Kolleen's mom's sister. 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865666323/Mother-son-killed-in-Carbon-County-second-son-arrested.html

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4675689-155/search-warrant-reveals-new-details-about

I am a bit surprised by the one that is pregnant. She seemed from the beginning so closed off from leaving and believing the truth on Jeffs. I wonder if her opinion of him has changed or not and how she ended up getting herself in that situation. I know that because they are not taught about things like birth control that those coming out of those cults won't understand that but whoever was with her probably knew better I would bet. Seems with her sister by her side though at least she has a support system to help her out. Its also something that these girls should be talked to about when they leave since the world outside the cults is so different. I am glad these shows are being done. It is suppose to be 4 parts. Its nice to see updates on the people and how they are doing. Seeing that Eskel is going to school and enjoying being able to just get to know his girlfriend unlike how it would have been for him is a good thing. The whole Lizzy/Julie situation is just so sad still. You could tell Lizzy was just so lost and the way Julie behaved was just disgusting. Its great she is with all her kids but sad they are still in that mess of a group and hidden away. 

I was very surprised by Vanna. I thought she would eventually go back or something. That guy she was involved with is a jerk. How do you tell someone to have an abortion so nonchalantly? Especially if the person did not express that desire. If he was scared that is not how you act. I feel she will be okay, she has her sister and Kolleen seems like she really wants to help.

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Thanks @Evil Queen, I got that all kinds of wrong! Kollene's mom is Shirley, not Susan. That's what I get for going off the top of my head with stuff. Such a horrible situation for the family.

I too was so surprised about Vanna. At least she reached out to Kollene. I wonder where she is working and how this will all play out after the baby arrives. I don't think going back to Short Crick is an option with an out of wedlock baby.

It's interesting that Julie was sent away with Lizzy considering that it was Lizzy who basically kidnapped her and ran. I guess the Bishops consider her tainted along with Lizzy after being in contact with the Escaping Polygamy crew.

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I'm just as surprised by Vanna too. I really thought she'd up going back too. She really acted like she still believed in the faith and in Jeffs and had still believed he was innocent. And now she's pregnant? That was surprising too, it sounds like she met a jerk. Poor girl. I wonder what the girls are told when they leave about the real world too. Are they given any information on birth control? Talk to about guys in the real world? There's creeps here too. I'd really like to know if they are therapy or if their offered it. Its also surprising the Julie is still with her mom. That was such a messed up situation. I loved hearing about the first wife. So she not only got her divorce but custody of her kids, and the one to decide if her daughter can go to those dances or I don't remember what their called but basically where to meet husbands? I'm glad the judge listened and didn't give that option to her father.

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15 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

 The girls doing that show have been out for awhile. One is married with a family. One is in college in another state getting a law degree to help more on that side of things with this issue. Not sure what the other one does. Kolleen does modeling at times and I think something with selling makeup. She could be doing other things as well. Some of the ones escaping that had cars take them with them. Those ranged in different kinds of cars though and get set up in apartments. Which I am sure there is some sort of fund that helps get these people set up that way though and help get them on their feet. I am not sure what else they do aside from helping whoever escape but they all could have other things going on. As the update show on last night, they had one girl say how she works at a bakery. Her boyfriend drives her to work. I know they showed during the first season (if I remember right) trying to make sure those they help get a GED if they want or any other education. Things I wish they would show more of though as well. Oh and there was one girl that had a bunch of money in the cult's bank from an accident and she had wanted to take it all out but they couldn't do it all in one lump sum. Which I wonder if she ever got the rest of her money or bothered trying at all. 

BTW, I don't think you are wasting anyone's time in asking. Its a lot of just guessing really. Heck the show could be supplying them the cars just for the show and the ones they really have are different. 

I wish they would show more of it too. Maybe explain where some of the money is coming from. Is it a fund? Did they qualify for government programs or money? I'm not sure what they'd be. Or if there's anything for people flee cults. One thing I do wonder about the work ethic. Over in the Leah Remini: Scientology thread its been talked about how hard working a lot of those members are went they leave the cult. I wonder if that's also true from those in these polygamy cults. Their used to working to the bone and not complaining or probably not allowed to complain. Maybe their able to get jobs and more hours or work their way up?

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Im glad to see we are getting updates about the people they have helped. Though in my case I get my updates by reading this board. I used to be able to watch the show online, but apparently A&E now requires people to have a cable package to watch episodes online now. Ironically it will let me watch sneak peak videos but nothing else.

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I'm sure this is off topic, but 20/20 on OWN is showing a rerun about women who escaped trying to get their children back.  Interesting and really scary.  It was on a couple of times today.  It's worth watching if it's on again.

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I thought this was interesting as well.  On the follow up show, Leah stated that she basically was homeless and couch-hopped for a long time until she got a job and boyfriend.  But the sisters got an apartment, etc.  I mean, at least Vanna was already working before they left, so she probably still kept that job as it was on the "outside".  

I do wonder if the show helps with finances, or it really could just be a volunteer network or people each escapee may know that left before them like the main three girls. 

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From what I do know there are places that help whoever may need it. How much any place helps or for how long though is another question. It could be they help so much and if the person isn't willing to take the help offered or doesn't like certain things they should do to get on their feet then sometimes having them hit the bottom (being maybe homeless) is what is needed to get them to do what they need (find a job, etc). I would bet many of these people escaping though also doesn't ask for help a lot of times because of how they are raised. I don't think Leah said why she had been in that position did she? 

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I wish there were recaps of this show, if only to help me keep the freaking cousins, fathers and half-sisters straight. Anyway I did a recap of episode 2.5 for anyone interested. I take no responsibility for spelling names incorrectly; closed captioning is super-inconsistent.

ESCAPING POLYGAMY EPISODE 2.5: “Trouble for Mom”

SITUATIONAL URGENCY

Eskill (brother of Amanda, Kami, Rachel and son of Verl Kingston and Lori Grant), wants to leave because he doesn’t want to abuse women or neglect his children. Verl is trying to schedule a reprogramming session for Eskill with the family prophet, Paul Kingston. We are told that Paul has essentially magical brainwashing powers and that Eskill must escape before he is spiritually lobotomized, information presented with intercut footage of alleged brainwashing victims fawning over Paul. It’s impossible to know whether these supposed sessions are a one-hour conversation or a weekend of mental and physical abuse, so Eskill’s actual peril level is hard to suss out.

Shirley (wife of Daniel Kingston, mother of Shannell and Kolleen and their older brother whose name I’ve forgotten, and sister-wife of Kathy) is being fired from her Order-assigned job and evicted from her Order-assigned crap apartment. Daniel is also threatening to “sue” her—in the totally non-legal court of the Order itself. She also has a few underage children who will presumably be homeless with her.  

Shirley is being evicted in part for letting the film crew watch the local Health Department inspect her extremely not-up-to-code apartment during episode 1.2. Fellow binge-watchers will not recognize the “Previously on” footage of said inspection because the mother of one of the subjects of that episode has sued A&E, forcing the network to pull the episode from broadcast and streaming.

Score (on a scale from spiritual disillusionment to imminent child rape): 5

FAMILY GRUESOMENESS

One of Verl’s wives is his half-sister; Verl is also treating Lori badly because of all the defections of her children.

Daniel has been punishing Shirley (and Shirley’s children) for some time, by neglecting her, isolating her and forcing her to live in squalor. He has never physically abused her; but she’s worried that his behavior might escalate if she doesn’t leave the property by tomorrow.

Score: (on a scale from shitty apartments to child sexual abuse) 5

ESCAPEE LIKEABILITY

Eskill has a cherubic face and this amazing “sweet little brother vibe.” When he says he never wants to treat a woman the way his mom is being treated, it’s hard not to want to hug him. He is also impressively kind and articulate about his reasons when explaining his choice to his weeping mother.

Shirley has been a staple character since the first season. She is perpetually aggrieved, frazzled and indecisive, which is generally not a good look. But these qualities have been at least partially inculcated by living in a perpetual system of intellectual, emotional and economic abuse. And you have to feel for her as her life comes completely apart.

Score: 8

CULTIC REVELATIONS

We learn that Verl is one of the Kingston Clan’s “Numbered Men”—a high status group that comprise one of the inner circles of cult patriarchs.

We also hear that a Kingston patriarch’s responsibilities to a wife (and her children) are limited to finding her ‘a place to live and a place to work.’

Score (on a scale from ‘we’re not allowed to cut our hair’ to ‘Paul Kingston is a descendant of Jesus Christ’): 4

ESCAPE AWESOMENESS

Despite the producers’ attempts to suggest imminent danger, and a bit of off-timing, Eskill’s escape goes off pretty smoothly.

Meanwhile, Shirley panics over packing, moving and finding a new job, driving the moving crew a bit crazy. Then Daniel, apparently getting word that Shirley was talking to the film crew, first phones Shirley to level vague threats, then does a drive-by at the apartment and finishes by calling 911 to report trespassers and “hostile children” at his home.

After driving up, Daniel immediately turns around upon seeing the film crew; Shannell and Kolleen hilariously shout at him as he speeds off, calling him a coward. Shirley also has a very satisfying conversation with the police officer who arrives, informing him that Daniel is neither her husband nor a legal tenant of her apartment.

Score: 7

FAUX DRAMA

The crew arranges by text to meet Eskill in a parking garage, then freaks out that the text may have been sent by a Kingston mole rather than Eskill himself.

The crew arranges to move Eskill out while everyone is at church; there’s a mini-panic when Lori leaves the house a few minutes late.

Score (on a scale from telling it how it is to Kody Brown fleeing fake CPS agents): -2

TOTAL: 27

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Regarding last night's episode, it was great to see Yolanda doing so well.  I was worried about her but she seems to be doing great and looks amazing.

Ethan - so sad.  Drugs are killing him. Like so many people who numb themselves through drugs, he is bent on self destruction.  Numb or dead - either (in their minds) is preferable to the life they live or the life they are running from and cannot deal with sober. 

Priscilla - she seems to be doing well, but I just hope she doesn't end up getting her heart broken.  These girls are extremely naive and trusting.  Not sure the boyfriend is who she thinks he is.  Hope I'm totally wrong.

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On 2017-07-26 at 2:30 PM, Evil Queen said:

Just saw on my dvr that Season 3 starts on Monday Aug 7th. 

thanks for the heads up.

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1 hour ago, Landlord said:

thanks for the heads up.

No problem. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't been trying to look for something else under my dvr stuff. I hadn't seen any previews either or anything here so figured I'd pass the word on. 

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Just saw it was on my dvr too. I haven't watched it yet but I know it wasn't on my dvr before today so was surprised to see that. Sorry it cut out halfway through. Will let you know if I had the same thing happen or not. 

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2 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Just saw it was on my dvr too. I haven't watched it yet but I know it wasn't on my dvr before today so was surprised to see that. Sorry it cut out halfway through. Will let you know if I had the same thing happen or not. 

It wasn't a full episode, just a first look at the premiere next Monday :-).

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1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Ok thank you for that. It explains why it was a last minute thing then too. 

No problem.  

I was disappointed too that it wasn't the full episode.   

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On 7/26/2017 at 1:30 PM, Evil Queen said:

Just saw on my dvr that Season 3 starts on Monday Aug 7th. 

Thanks - your post made me wonder why it wasn't on my dvr - turns out the show wasn't set up to record series anymore (maybe I accidentally deleted it during a clean-up, who knows).  Anyway your heads up gave me time to set the recording up again before the show aired.  

I'd love to see these girls get together with Leah Remini for a quick section on her show or theirs about what similarities and differences the two cults have, how both go about controlling people and what other cults have similar practices.

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Did anyone watch the episode last night? That guy was a real fascinating case. Two wives, knows polygamy is wrong, doesn't want more wives, but plans to continue living polygamy because he already has these 2 wives and 8 kids so he's kinda stuck.  I kind of wanted to hate him because of the two wives and them being sisters and all, but at the same time he seemed like a nice, caring guy.  

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57 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

Did anyone watch the episode last night? That guy was a real fascinating case. Two wives, knows polygamy is wrong, doesn't want more wives, but plans to continue living polygamy because he already has these 2 wives and 8 kids so he's kinda stuck.  I kind of wanted to hate him because of the two wives and them being sisters and all, but at the same time he seemed like a nice, caring guy.  

I did.  It just shows how much heartache polygamy brings.

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1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

Did anyone watch the episode last night? That guy was a real fascinating case. Two wives, knows polygamy is wrong, doesn't want more wives, but plans to continue living polygamy because he already has these 2 wives and 8 kids so he's kinda stuck.  I kind of wanted to hate him because of the two wives and them being sisters and all, but at the same time he seemed like a nice, caring guy.  

I thought it was one of the best episodes they've had. Still repulsed by two sisters having the same husband, though. And the kids. How does that line up with the kids? What are they to each other with their moms being so closely related? Geez!

But overall, he was one of the best and most stable rescues to date. I hope all of the storylines are like this even though the whole existence of this cult is scary.

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It was interesting that Jesse and his wives belong to the same sect that Kody Brown and his wives belong to, and live in the same town the Browns lived in before they left for Las Vegas. Despite the Browns saying their sect is so benign, the truth came out last night (well, a lot of the truth has come out in books and news articles before this, but this is contemporaneous to the Brown's shit show). Kody Brown is into guns and it makes me wonder if he is involved in the AUB's secret militia too.

Those were two nice, big homes they found for the families. Did they say what Jesse did for a living? It looks like they took them to Colorado. I hope he can find a good job and keep the families together. I guess they will live as independent plygs, like the Williams. Hopefully the wives will be able to talk with their parents in the future.

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57 minutes ago, toodles said:

I did.  It just shows how much heartache polygamy brings.

You are so right. Your point of view is compassionate...

1 minute ago, Galloway Cave said:

It was interesting that Jesse and his wives belong to the same sect that Kody Brown and his wives belong to, and live in the same town the Browns lived in before they left for Las Vegas. Despite the Browns saying their sect is so benign, the truth came out last night (well, a lot of the truth has come out in books and news articles before this, but this is contemporaneous to the Brown's shit show). Kody Brown is into guns and it makes me wonder if he is involved in the AUB's secret militia too.

Those were two nice, big homes they found for the families. Did they say what Jesse did for a living? It looks like they took them to Colorado. I hope he can find a good job and keep the families together. I guess they will live as independent plygs, like the Williams. Hopefully the wives will be able to talk with their parents in the future.

I thought about their living style also. Since the first wife is not liking that her sister is the second wife I wonder what the solution will be... 

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11 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Since the first wife is not liking that her sister is the second wife I wonder what the solution will be... 

Especially since they won't have the influence of the parents to keep the family together. I get the feeling that the sister will be out soon. 

Forgot to mention that I didn't think that red light was a laser. It was too big to be a laser on a gun; they are usually very thin. That red light looked like a red head lamp. I have both a red head lamp and a laser on one of my guns and it looked like my head lamp. But I do agree that the person in that house was creeping and up to no good.

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I am so glad I wasn't alone in feeling sorry for Jesse.  He seemed like such an honest soul, and I appreciated that he didn't want his children to grow up thinking polygamy was a requirement for heaven.  I hope they find an arrangement that will cause the least pain and put the children first. 

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5 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Did anyone watch the episode last night? That guy was a real fascinating case. Two wives, knows polygamy is wrong, doesn't want more wives, but plans to continue living polygamy because he already has these 2 wives and 8 kids so he's kinda stuck.  I kind of wanted to hate him because of the two wives and them being sisters and all, but at the same time he seemed like a nice, caring guy.  

Yep did watch. Its a tricky situation for sure. More so with the wives being sisters. I feel bad for them all. Especially the fact that the sisters (one more than the other) seemed very child like....the way she spoke and everything. So obviously they don't get much of an education there either. I hope they figure something out so its not going to continue that polygamy lifestyle down the line with the kids. Hopefully when they are old enough it can all be explained to them and they are given proper educations as well. 

3 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

It was interesting that Jesse and his wives belong to the same sect that Kody Brown and his wives belong to, and live in the same town the Browns lived in before they left for Las Vegas. Despite the Browns saying their sect is so benign, the truth came out last night (well, a lot of the truth has come out in books and news articles before this, but this is contemporaneous to the Brown's shit show). Kody Brown is into guns and it makes me wonder if he is involved in the AUB's secret militia too.

Those were two nice, big homes they found for the families. Did they say what Jesse did for a living? It looks like they took them to Colorado. I hope he can find a good job and keep the families together. I guess they will live as independent plygs, like the Williams. Hopefully the wives will be able to talk with their parents in the future.

Interesting. I had no clue about the Browns and what they were from. I have never watched and never will. I find it disgusting they even have a show. I actually wouldn't be surprised if all the men in AUB are part of it once they hit a certain age. 

I didn't hear anything for what Jesse did for a living. Hopefully its enough to get them all by though. 

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I was really struck by Jesse coming to terms with potentially threatening behaviour from the AUB. Whether or not that was a laser from a weapon, he really believed they were exhibiting aggressive behaviour and it seemed to break his heart. 

Edited by Lyndy
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7 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Did anyone watch the episode last night? That guy was a real fascinating case. Two wives, knows polygamy is wrong, doesn't want more wives, but plans to continue living polygamy because he already has these 2 wives and 8 kids so he's kinda stuck.  I kind of wanted to hate him because of the two wives and them being sisters and all, but at the same time he seemed like a nice, caring guy.  

Just out of interest, what would repenting polygamy look like for Jesse? I mean, what is the approved process to transitioning from two wives to one? Do the two sisters flip a coin to decide who gets evicted? Sounds traumatic.

I'm pretty sure that wasnt a laser. They are supposed to remain a tight-beam over distance, aren't they? Still, it isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Utah in winter looks so beautiful. And this was a great result overall. Eight children wil now grow up freed from the bondage of polygamy. Awesome.

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7 minutes ago, daggoth said:

Just out of interest, what would repenting polygamy look like for Jesse? I mean, what is the approved process to transitioning from two wives to one? Do the two sisters flip a coin to decide who gets evicted? Sounds traumatic.

I'm pretty sure that wasnt a laser. They are supposed to remain a tight-beam over distance, aren't they? Still, it isn't paranoia if they really are out to get you.

Utah in winter looks so beautiful. And this was a great result overall. Eight children wil now grow up freed from the bondage of polygamy. Awesome.

Well, sort of free from polygamy.  The family, at least for now, is still living a plural lifestyle.  Which wife stays and which goes?  The kids have two mothers and one will be just an aunt?  I'm not sure I get how this is supposed to work.

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One of the wives is legally married to him. So I would assume if they were to start living a non polygamy life, as best as can be considering the kids and all, then I would assume the legal wife would be who would be the one IF he is to pick one. Which I don't know if missed that or not but did he say that is how they would be living? This was very different from all the ones we have seen so far because we have seen the women leave with kids or an older child but we haven't seen a husband get out with his wives and kids before. So I know I would like to know more about how they might have worked things out to live and not live that polygamist life anymore....as well as how its effecting them all. 

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