S01.E03: Nighthawks

[formerlyfreedom]

As police begin to focus on the Hawthorne family’s possible connection to the “Silver Bells Killer,” Cam attempts to erase his past while Garrett reconnects with his. Also, Alison’s campaign seeks the support of local professional football player Stephen Gostkowski, but the endorsement is complicated by the risky actions of one of her siblings,

[Cardie]

Here's the Edward Hopper painting referenced in this episode's title. Look out for a diner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg

[janeta]

Why is everything in this show so damn dark?!? Even when it's supposed to be broad daylight it's dark.

[Chaos Theory]

This show is so much fun.

The words you never want to hear, "I brought my own puppet."  Ha!  It takes real skill to freak out your shrink like that.  

Yes Brady your wife is going to be a widdle bit pissed that you took some DNA from the house even if it is technically legal.  You will be lucky if she doesn't divorce your ass.   Speaking of..... I still think Tessa is the Silver Bells Killer.

Garrets storyline did nothing for me.   Cam at least is interesting.  Him being a complete screw up.  And this time his screwupness may end up costing Alison her election.

Sooooo is Alison and her campaign manager all kinds of hot together especially now that the show has gone and made her husband  a douche.  

So much fun this show is.  So much.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Cardie]

So Garret was not seeking his old flame at the diner but stalking the daughter of a SBK victim. He must feel responsible for the killings even if he, as is likely, is not the killer himself.

The family is hardly exonerated by the belt DNA test. There are a million ways blood other than the victim's or the killer's could get on that belt. SBK is probably too careful to leave any trace evidence anywhere. And now that suspicion has been cast Gunther's way and he's killed himself (or is another Maddie victim) we'll have to cross him off the list.

So, Jack cuts off a cat's tail and it gets a shoulder shrug but he puts false teeth in a doll and everyone freaks out. WTF? This was the worst episode to date, I think.

[NorthstarATL]

I was afraid that the puppet would turn out to be some grotesque thing made of Caramel, so I was relieved when it was just the kid's doll with the dentures. Pretty boring otherwise.

[izabella]

I watch this show in fear for Caramel whenever that kid is on the screen.

I feel bad for Gunther.  And now I"m curious about what "body" Cam referred to in his therapist's video. 

[Sayla Vee]

The dentures scared the heck out of me.  I got goose-bumpy all over thinking about that kid wandering through my house while I was asleep. 

Phyllis is still alive, right?

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, NorthstarATL said:

I was afraid that the puppet would turn out to be some grotesque thing made of Caramel, so I was relieved when it was just the kid's doll with the dentures. Pretty boring otherwise.

That was a total fake out. Deliberately. If caramel dies this show is dead to me. Biggest part of the fake out wss the therapists reaction because while dentures in a puppet are unsettling they don't scream "violent child" so much as weird child whereas if it had been a dead animal than yeah serial killer,

 

when he he unveiled the puppet I had my hands over my eyes saying is it the cat is it the cat to my mom.

 

did Gunther hang himself? Or was he killed?

 

what was behind his remarks about the cage?

Edited July 7, 2016 by lucindabelle

[ghoulina]

So I'm confused. Or maybe I'm not. I was drifting last night, after two nights of horrible sleep (Fireworks on the 4th/bad storms and power loss on the 5th). The nurse that patched up Garrett's hand at the end - that was the chick he was really stalking in the diner? When he ran into his ex, right? Interesting that she's a daughter of one of the victims. I wonder what that's about. 

Actually, I have a theory. And it's probably crazy, so maybe I should just zip it. But here goes. I think it's possible that Tessa is the killer and/or Garrett killed on her behalf. I know Tessa would have likely been too young/weak to handle adult males. But what if she drugged them first? Is it at all possible? What if she isn't lying, but actually doesn't remember it at all? Because she was in a fuge state of sorts. 

I just remember two things - she started having nightmares as a little girl and turned to her big brother for comfort. And then when Garrett told Mitchell, "I'm going to tell them it was you" - that always stuck with me as Garrett knowing it wasn't Mitchell, not technically. But he blamed him. Whoever killed those men, Garrett holds Mitchell responsible and is protecting the killer. Who would be protect more than anyone else? His baby sister. 

So what I'm thinking is - the dad and his rich friends were using their kids. Some sort of creepy pedophile ring for the elite. Tessa was dissociating in order to deal with it, and eventually killed in a fuge state. Maybe she only killed one and Garrett found out. Or maybe he just did all of them. Maybe he helped her. But that's why it stopped - all those participating were dead. It wasn't a serial killer thing, but a revenge thing. 

I'm probably way off base, but my mind goes off on tangents and this is what I've come up with. 

I don't think it's Gunther. But I think he'll be conveniently blamed now that he's dead. The case will seem solved, but something new will pop up. The question is - did Gunther really off himself? Neither Madison or Tessa could have done it, because they were in the house when they heard it. But could Madison have put someone else up to it? Or maybe he's just feeling guilty about something else. 

A bit of a continuity issue, but wasn't Sophie the one last week who SAID Jack should be in therapy? Now she's all, "I saw a shrink as a kid and it didn't do squat". Also, wouldn't the therapist tell them WHY she can't see the kid anymore? I'm not an expert, so I'm genuinely asking - does patient-doctor confidentiality apply to minors? Wouldn't she tell them about the puppet so they could figure out where he got those teeth? I'm kind of tired of the kid's obvious psychosis being used as some light fodder for the show. "Oh, that darn Jack! Always mutilating cats and stealing people's dentures. Whatcha gonna do?" Um no. 

I do need more of Caramel's owner because she just makes me laugh. Also, "Two" divorces lady cracked me up as well. 

DO NOT care about the older sister's marriage or affair. Her scenes bore me to tears. 

[riverheightsnancy]

Yeah, I was worried that the kid made a puppet of the cat Caramel and I was not going to be happy about that. After all this is not Bates Motel (just kidding-I didn't want the cat to be hurt again after the tail thing-too upsetting to me). But, for the therapist to freak out about the dentures is ridiculous. Perhaps the kid found the dentures at a yard sale or a grandparent gave them to him. That was absolutely stupid. I get that this show is not playing these characters straight, but it needed to be worse than that for me (as a therapist) to run screaming from the room (even then, you are trained not to run from the room). A dead corpse head might have done it. Dentures in a stuffed doll's head, not so much at all. It could have been a point to be able to talk to the kid but the therapist blew it. Also, videotapes/tapes of client session are supposed to be well secured, under lock and key, sometimes in a separate location from the office. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

That was a total fake out. Deliberately. If caramel dies this show is dead to me. Biggest part of the fake out wss the therapists reaction because while dentures in a puppet are unsettling they don't scream "violent child" so much as weird child whereas if it had been a dead animal than yeah serial killer,

 

when he he unveiled the puppet I had my hands over my eyes saying is it the cat is it the cat to my mom.

 

did Gunther hang himself? Or was he killed?

 

what was behind his remarks about the cage?

If Gunther was killed the killer must've been right there hiding in the shed because it seemed like the women heard the THUNK of him falling and ran straight to the shed.  Though I suppose he could've been set up to fall off the stool after the killer left somehow.  

The note said "I'm sorry", I think.  

His cage remarks didn't make much sense.  He whacked the caged raccoon with a shovel to kill it so it wouldn't suffer a slow death in the cage because no one deserves that.  Which I guess is meant to suggest he'd rather hang himself than go to jail.  But those cages are not like mousetraps, meant to kill the prey, they're humane cages that safely trap an animal for you to relocate or take to Animal Control or whatever.  And the cousin Jack was trying to trap would no way fit in it, so that was pretty silly.  The worst that could happen is she'd stick her arm in to grab the doll and the door would drop on her arm, which itself wouldn't even be dangerous, though they acted like the thing was a guillotine or something.  

I too was really afraid Jack had a dead Caramel in the bag and thought the therapist really needed to specify that he was too violent for her to treat.  

Caramel's mom really shouldn't have that dog door open, given the tail thing.  

18 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Yeah, I was worried that the kid made a puppet of the cat Caramel and I was not going to be happy about that. After all this is not Bates Motel (just kidding-I didn't want the cat to be hurt again after the tail thing-too upsetting to me). But, for the therapist to freak out about the dentures is ridiculous. Perhaps the kid found the dentures at a yard sale or a grandparent gave them to him. That was absolutely stupid. I get that this show is not playing these characters straight, but it needed to be worse than that for me (as a therapist) to run screaming from the room (even then, you are trained not to run from the room). A dead corpse head might have done it. Dentures in a stuffed doll's head, not so much at all. It could have been a point to be able to talk to the kid but the therapist blew it. Also, videotapes/tapes of client session are supposed to be well secured, under lock and key, sometimes in a separate location from the office. 

I laughed at 15 year old sessions being held in her desk on CDs, too.  I would expect it'd be digitized and stored off site, if kept that long at all.  

Chatwin's acting in the scene with Sophie where he kept wringing his hands on every syllable was pretty funny.  The fact it was shot from below didn't help.

I guess that's why Dylan Bruce was a guest star and not regular cast.  He's done.  Though why he'd buy Alison's dad's company on his way out the door I don't get.  

Why would Garrett be obsessed with the first SBK victim's daughter?  I went to IMDB the other day and the Christina actress had top billing, for some reason.  I guess she's the only one who put in that she was on for more than two episodes?  

There were parts this week where the story did feel like it was going off the rails a bit now.  The mayor having Cam followed 24 hours doesn't seem too realistic.  I was glad Sophie hadn't set him up, though.  

So I guess Freddie Lounds' hair on Hannibal was a wig.  Nice to see that actress as Molly. 

I too have no interest in Alison's love/sex life.  I really dislike the campaign manager.   

10 hours ago, janeta said:

Why is everything in this show so damn dark?!? Even when it's supposed to be broad daylight it's dark.

Even the medical room where Christina was stitching up Garrett was dimly lit.  It's starting to bug me, too.  

[ghoulina]

25 minutes ago, auntl said:

Could anyone see what the note on the table next to Gunther's body said? I couldn't make it out.

I think it just said, "I'm sorry". 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I'm kind of tired of the kid's obvious psychosis being used as some light fodder for the show. "Oh, that darn Jack! Always mutilating cats and stealing people's dentures. Whatcha gonna do?" Um no. 

I feel the same way.  Yes, they took him to a therapist, finally, but I don't understand why that kid doesn't have more adult supervision, at least during the day.  They KNOW he's capable of doing terrible things, regardless of why.  He needs a keeper.

28 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Caramel's mom really shouldn't have that dog door open, given the tail thing.  

Caramel's mom is a dumbass.  She knows something happened to Caramel's tail, so she shouldn't be so quick to let her roam around the neighborhood.  Time to lock her in the house to keep her safe.  Cats aren't dumb, so I doubt she would get anywhere near Jack again after what he did to her tail, but she didn't get herself to the vet on her own, so that woman should know that wandering the neighborhood is not safe for Caramel.

[Guest]

Just now, izabella said:

I feel the same way.  Yes, they took him to a therapist, finally, but I don't understand why that kid doesn't have more adult supervision, at least during the day.  They KNOW he's capable of doing terrible things, regardless of why.  He needs a keeper.

I was wondering who was watching him while Cam and Sophie were having all their time alone this episode.  I guess grandma or Tessa.

[Chaos Theory]

I think Jack is the best part of the show and his blood died with the stupid cat Caramel is all kinds of lol funny to me.  Not that I want anything bad to happen to the cat.  FYI the actor who plays Jack has a presence on Twitter and has "liked" some of my posts so that may have something to do with it.    Cat lady is hilarious also.

Honestly the only two characters I am not feeling are Garret and Brady.

[sjohnson]

10 hours ago, Cardie said:

So, Jack cuts off a cat's tail and it gets a shoulder shrug but he puts false teeth in a doll and everyone freaks out. WTF? This was the worst episode to date, I think.

The creepy thing is, where did he get them? Also, it turns the puppet into a weapon of sorts. As to the episode, I laughed repeatedly, makes it a win for me.

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

That was a total fake out. Deliberately. If caramel dies this show is dead to me. Biggest part of the fake out wss the therapists reaction because while dentures in a puppet are unsettling they don't scream "violent child" so much as weird child whereas if it had been a dead animal than yeah serial killer,

The therapist I think knew the kid was messing with adults, even if she didn't see him creeping through the neighbor's house like we did. But I don't think they meant it to be a fake out. The "anatomically correct" remark last episode told us the moment the camera centered on the denture bath what was going to be done with them.

2 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Perhaps the kid found the dentures at a yard sale or a grandparent gave them to him. That was absolutely stupid. 

Dentures at a yard sale? A personal gift? Sorry, that's really seems like stretching to me. 

1 hour ago, auntl said:

Could anyone see what the note on the table next to Gunther's body said? I couldn't make it out.

"I'm sorry." 

[riverheightsnancy]

47 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Dentures at a yard sale? A personal gift? Sorry, that's really seems like stretching to me. 

 

People (shockingly) save and sell all kinds of things at yard sales/flea markets, as odd as that may seem. I was not thinking it a personal gift, but someone had them kicking around and gave them to the kid because he was interested in anatomy/medicine. I could see a plausible explanation (even if out of the norm for most people). Of course, we do know really where they came from and he did steal them after breaking into a person's house, so that is problematic no matter what. 

[blackwing]

51 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

The creepy thing is, where did he get [the dentures]? Also, it turns the puppet into a weapon of sorts. As to the episode, I laughed repeatedly, makes it a win for me.

Seems pretty obvious to me that they belong to the Crazy Cat Lady.  He crept into her room looking for the cat, and we see her sleeping and her dentures in a glass on her nightstand.

What I don't get is... what kind of therapist is this?  She must truly be incompetent.  I gather she is supposed to be a child psychiatrist, and if a kid with a doll wearing dentures is enough to make her throw up her hands and give up and fire the kid... well then, sorry, but she must really suck.  Is the kid a bit disturbed?  Yes he is.  But that's the exact reason why the parents have him in her office seeking treatment.

I don't get why Garrett was stalking the nurse who is a SBK victim's daughter.  But I also don't get why his ex showed up at the diner.  She said that Madeline sent her there.  How did Madeline know that he was stalking the nurse at the diner?

Allison gets on my nerves.  She's so high and mighty and the only thing that matters to her is her campaign.  I have no idea why whoever was answering the door at the house would have admitted the mayor.  It was presumably a private party.  They would have been well within their rights to deny entry to her rival.  I'm glad that Dylan Bruce stood up to her.  He said he was tired of being her doormat, bought the company, and walked out.  But just one episode ago, he appeared to still be into her when they were kissing in the kitchen while the jealous assistant  watched?

Must every single show these days feature lesbians?  Seems like it's become a trope.  Every show must have one woman who is married but questioning.

I still don't care about Tessa or Brady or his disloyalty.

Virginia Madsen is the best thing about this show.  She is rocking it.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought it was fairly obvious that Jack got the dentures from cat lady's bedside table when he broke into her house.  The camera panned to the table with the glass containing the dentures and lingered on them too long for them not to pop up again later in the episode.  

I think since that poster also mentioned the obviousness of the denture bath, he/she meant the creepy question for the therapist is where did Jack get the teeth.  Maybe.  (Though maybe the therapist DID find out where Jack got them and figured a cat burgler...heh... was out of her league.)

I guess since this therapist didn't 'fire' Cam way back when, he must've been a more normal case and so probably not violent.  Though that would imply continuity and logic, which might be too much to expect here.

[sjohnson]

Yes, I did mean that the therapist would find the question of where he got the teeth (and using them to make a puppet that can bite,) very unsettling. 

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But that's why it stopped - all those participating were dead. It wasn't a serial killer thing, but a revenge thing. 

Whether or not a pedophile ring scenario is the case, I too think that the fact that the killer stopped may mean that he or she wanted these specific six dead and was not killing out of psychopathic compulsion.

Did I read correctly Garrett's note re: Christina as saying "She's alive!" If so, I wonder why he would fear that she would not be.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Cardie

[Guest]

He wrote, "She's alone!" after his other notes.  

Kind of weird he has notes that she takes cigarette breaks, if she's a doctor(?)

I just rewatched that scene to check his notes.  The Nighthawks scene is the first one.  It's kind of cool they have these hidden in there like little easter eggs.  

Edited July 7, 2016 by Guest

[izabella]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't get why Garrett was stalking the nurse who is a SBK victim's daughter.  But I also don't get why his ex showed up at the diner.  She said that Madeline sent her there.  How did Madeline know that he was stalking the nurse at the diner?

Maddie figured out he was going to the diner regularly when she saw all the coffee cups from the diner in his room.  She probably also knew when he left the house and disappeared for hours.  Because Maddie wanted Garrett to stay home instead of going back to Maine or wherever, she thought getting him together with his ex would be incentive.  So she contacted her and told her he's been going to the diner every day and when so that she could show up and "bump into" him.

[Happytobehere]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

I don't get why Garrett was stalking the nurse who is a SBK victim's daughter.  But I also don't get why his ex showed up at the diner.  She said that Madeline sent her there.  How did Madeline know that he was stalking the nurse at the diner?

In the opening sequence where we first saw Garrett getting his stalker on, Gunther was explaining something to Jack about how to bait the trap to successfully set your prey up for the kill, and it was used as the voice over as Madeline was shown following the steps to set up Garrett (trying to make nice, offering Garrett multiple breakfast options).  One of the steps included finding the perfect bait; Mommy Dearest is then seen snooping in Grisley Adams's room where she comes across the picture of the ex and sees cups from the diner.  So the show actually did connect the dots nicely there.  I thought the most interesting part was the Mommy Dearest is going to kill Grisley Adams if he continued to be an annoyance.

[blackwing]

Ah ok, thanks! I didn't really understand what was going on in the beginning with Madeline... possibly because it was dark?  Too lazy to rewatch, but I'm going to blame "I couldn't see because it was so dark" whenever I am confused about what is going on on this show.  Because the camera work is generally awful, everything is indeed too damn dark!

But this doesn't explain why he would have cups from the diner.  As far as we know, he was sitting outside the diner in his truck every day just watching and waiting.  We are led to believe that he didn't actually go in the diner until the day he worked up his courage to do so to talk to the nurse.  The minute he went in there was when his ex ("I've been coming here every day for the past three days") ran into him.

Edited July 7, 2016 by blackwing

[Guest]

I liked how at the end of that sequence Gunther said, "God damn rich people."  They were throwing him on the red herring bus hard this ep.  

How about that new character Dana in the police station?  Ha.  

I don't really think you can get a list of names of people who bought a particular belt 15 years ago, even if it is sold in just a few exclusive stores.  Plus I would think that'd be another thing you'd need a warrant for.  

So Garrett has back-stabby scars his ex-GF never saw.  Cam was talking to a therapist about a body.  Tessa has some still undisclosed trauma from childhood. 

I was surprised Brady implied Tessa's DNA test ruled out the whole family.  I'm thinking Tessa is going to turn out to be not Mitchell's.  Of course that would only rule Mitchell in.  Maddie having an affair would work with my Scarlet Letter idea.  

[ghoulina]

16 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't really think you can get a list of names of people who bought a particular belt 15 years ago, even if it is sold in just a few exclusive stores

I read a lot of police procedurals and mysteries, etc. The police are forever tracking things down by going into stores and getting their hands on those meticulous records that everyone keeps. *rolls eyes*

[blackwing]

Not only that.... but they had the actual copy of Madeline's credit card receipt.  And it was one of those old fashioned "put the credit card on the slot, put credit card slip on top, chick chock the roller over it to make an imprint for the carbon" systems.  I know that those things were still in wide spread use 25 years ago, but 15?  I would have thought they were fairly phased out by then.

Not to mention the utter ridiculousness of each of those five stores having retained all of their paper credit card carbons for all of these years.  Or the fact that they can even identify which five stores sold these special belts, and that all five stores are still in business after 15 years.

[Guest]

The funny thing is they didn't even need that evidence.  Maddie never denied buying the belt, and the photo of Cam wearing it already proves it was in their possession.  

[sjohnson]

Brady has kept that particular photo to himself. 

The black humor would be funnier if the plot ended up making a fair amount of sense, but it's not promising. At least they intend to play fair some of the time, I think. 

Agree with the people above thinking Garret was threatening to lie about Mitchell. 

Cam talking about the body doesn't sound like Silver Bell Killer who should be talking about bodies, plural. Sounds like Cam is some sort of witness. 

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Ah ok, thanks! I didn't really understand what was going on in the beginning with Madeline... possibly because it was dark?  Too lazy to rewatch, but I'm going to blame "I couldn't see because it was so dark" whenever I am confused about what is going on on this show.  Because the camera work is generally awful, everything is indeed too damn dark!

But this doesn't explain why he would have cups from the diner.  As far as we know, he was sitting outside the diner in his truck every day just watching and waiting.  We are led to believe that he didn't actually go in the diner until the day he worked up his courage to do so to talk to the nurse.  The minute he went in there was when his ex ("I've been coming here every day for the past three days") ran into him.

Yes, the possession of the cups raises questions, but can easily be explained away.  We saw Garrett about to go into the diner when he thought the daughter was alone, the notebook he had indicated he had been stalking her for a while, so it is feasible that he has entered the diner to get a feel of the daughter, hence the cups.  However,  I suspect that a scene was just cut and/or will be used later in to explain something.

50 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The funny thing is they didn't even need that evidence.  Maddie never denied buying the belt, and the photo of Cam wearing it already proves it was in their possession.  

Only Brady and the family know about the picture.  None of the other cops know about it.  Brady was arguing with Tessa about keeping it back when it is clearly related to the case.

I too wonder about the significance of the multiple stab wounds, they must come into play in some way.

[Chaos Theory]

18 hours ago, izabella said:

 And now I"m curious about what "body" Cam referred to in his therapist's video. 

It was very vague.  I think the  exact words were "I'd like to talk about the body."  It didn't even really say dead body it just alluded to it and with a serial killer out there it made Cam look guilty and with his history of drug abuse he would be an easy target for the police to pin the murders on.  Its possible he doesn't even know where he was during a lot of the murders.   My guess is he saw a dead body once as a child and it screwed him up which is why he is freaking out that his son is so obsessed with them.  It explains why the therapist  (who has a low tolerance for creepy) didn't pawn him off like she did Jack.  There was no reason.  Cam was just a screwed up kid while Jack has borderline personality issues or.......maybe is working through something on his own like maybe knows who the killer is himself and doesn't know how to verbalize it.

[sjohnson]

Oh, Jack I think is purely a literary creation, a Frankenstein cobbled together from Addams Family cartoons and pop psychoanalysis in too many thrillers to bring to mind. Any resemblance to any human reality is due solely to not using CGI. But maybe that's just me.

[Guest]

Jack reminds me a bit of Bones. 

[DarkCrystal]

I hope Garrett leaves town soon, I can't stand him, the actor just creeps me out.  This show is so 'over the top', I can't decide if I like it or not.  I'll keep watching though.

[thuganomics85]

I thought Jack's "puppet" was going to be much, much worse, so I really found it hilarious that it scared the therapist and Cam that much.  Cutting off a cat's tail is way worse, but Cam was acting like the puppet was the devil himself or something.  Either way, Jack is a major creep, who I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up killing someone himself.  Cam and Jack moving in with Sophie probably isn't going to make things any better, to be honest.

Certainly hope Mayor Conely ends up being a better opponent for Alison, then Senator Lang/Grant Show was on the family.  You better not waste Enrico Colantoni, show!

Is there ever going to be a point to Dylan Bruce's husband (who I know so little about, I still just call him Paul), other then kind of being a jerk, and getting cheated on by Alison with the campaign manager?

Turns out Garrett is stocking this nurse, who was the daughter of a former Silver Bells Killer victim.  Since she's played by Catalina Sandino Moreno, I'm guessing a potential love interest, until she finds out the truth and then shit gets even uglier.

Took me a second to place Lara Jean Chorostecki as Molly.  She looked way different then she did on Hannibal.

Gunther is so going to be another fake-out.  Still don't know who the actual killer is, but Madeline has to be involved somehow.

I don't care about either Brady or Tess in their dumb fight.  Even if it was legal, Brady still betrayed her trust and deserved to get yelled at.  At the same time, by all rights, he should have automatically took the picture to the cops, but he didn't, and yet Tess wasn't trying to help him in anyway, and just snapped at him to fix it more or less.  She realizes she married a detective, right?  He's not just going to turn his intuition off, because the killer might be family.

[Guest]

Still on my adulteress train of thought, maybe Gunther killed himself because Maddie's firing him was extra personal due to something in the past (or present) between those two?  Ooh, maybe Tessa is Gunther's.  Yes, I'm bored.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

What I don't get is... what kind of therapist is this?  She must truly be incompetent.  I gather she is supposed to be a child psychiatrist, and if a kid with a doll wearing dentures is enough to make her throw up her hands and give up and fire the kid... well then, sorry, but she must really suck.

Agreed. This is exactly the sort of thing she's supposed to be trained for. At most she might call in a consultant and put Jack on medication immediately - perhaps even recommend he be committed to a mental hospital. To just run screaming to the parents "I can't help him!" and not even tell them what he did? Wow. Worst therapist ever.

I feel like this show is just going in circles. Every week they focus on a different potential suspect but it doesn't feel like we're making any forward progression.

[tennisgurl]

Agree about the therapist. Come on, you HAVE to have seen or heard weirder stuff from clients than a kid who makes a denture puppet. Granted, that puppet was creepy as hell, but its not like he pulled out a staffed head. I, too, live in fear for poor Caramel. As long as he makes it, I will be fine with this show. 

I must say, as ridiculous as some of this show is, I am really interested in the mystery. Right now, pretty much everyone is acting guilty as all get out. Except for the nice sister, which makes me suspect her even more. Maybe she will kill her husband next. Taking her DNA and running it after telling her he wouldn't was a major dick move.  

[Enigma X]

I co-sign all the ridiculous points (especially the therapiist) that you guys brought up. Despite the mess this show is, I totally want to know who the killer is. Why? I don't know.

[Save Yourself]

On 8 July 2016 at 0:13 AM, izabella said:

I feel the same way.  Yes, they took him to a therapist, finally, but I don't understand why that kid doesn't have more adult supervision, at least during the day.  They KNOW he's capable of doing terrible things, regardless of why.  He needs a keeper.

Caramel's mom is a dumbass.  She knows something happened to Caramel's tail, so she shouldn't be so quick to let her roam around the neighborhood.  Time to lock her in the house to keep her safe.  Cats aren't dumb, so I doubt she would get anywhere near Jack again after what he did to her tail, but she didn't get herself to the vet on her own, so that woman should know that wandering the neighborhood is not safe for Caramel.

And at night I'd be locking his door and my door and sleeping with a knife under my pillow! He's scary as fuck.

I couldn't believe that with the cat! The poor thing has just been abused and she's not being kept in the house? 

 

On 8 July 2016 at 3:30 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

He wrote, "She's alone!" after his other notes.  

Kind of weird he has notes that she takes cigarette breaks, if she's a doctor(?)

I just rewatched that scene to check his notes.  The Nighthawks scene is the first one.  It's kind of cool they have these hidden in there like little easter eggs.  

It's surprising how much of the medical community smokes. At my hospital there's usual quite a few staff from onnology smoking outside. That's hardcore, to see what they do and STILL smoke, yikes!

 

On 8 July 2016 at 10:13 AM, Chaos Theory said:

It was very vague.  I think the  exact words were "I'd like to talk about the body."  It didn't even really say dead body it just alluded to it and with a serial killer out there it made Cam look guilty and with his history of drug abuse he would be an easy target for the police to pin the murders on.  Its possible he doesn't even know where he was during a lot of the murders.   My guess is he saw a dead body once as a child and it screwed him up which is why he is freaking out that his son is so obsessed with them.  It explains why the therapist  (who has a low tolerance for creepy) didn't pawn him off like she did Jack.  There was no reason.  Cam was just a screwed up kid while Jack has borderline personality issues or.......maybe is working through something on his own like maybe knows who the killer is himself and doesn't know how to verbalize it.

Please don't say BPD! BPD sufferers feel TOO much and certainly have empathy for others, they are not Vulcan like Jack, he has to be a sociopath, it all fits. 

[Cardie]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Except for the nice sister, which makes me suspect her even more.

I don't doubt that Tessa has some dark places underneath her gee-whiz surface but the Silver Bell Killings started when she was ten. She may have witnessed and repressed some of the killings but she can't be SBK.  In fact none of the siblings seems likely except Garrett, who is far too likely.

[Sandman]

So we get the Nighthawks image right off the bat.

I'm pretty sure the therapist is bound by ethical standards that require her to report Jack to relevant authorities if she has reason to believe he presents a danger to others or if he is likely to harm himself, not run screaming the other direction. There's no out for "this kid is morbid and creepifyin'; I'm so bailing!"

Are Cam and Jack really going to end up with the same therapist, fifteen or twenty years apart?

These people are all freaks -- even DNA Dana the CSI is a weirdo.

I don't think Jack's a sociopath. I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and I think he's playing them all.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Sandman
I don't think he's a murderer.

[Cardie]

15 hours ago, Sandman said:

I don't think Jack's a sociopath. I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and I think he's playing them all.

Isn't that what a sociopath is, someone totally without empathy who is super skilled at manipulating others for his own benefit or amusement?

[sjohnson]

2 hours ago, Cardie said:

Isn't that what a sociopath is, someone totally without empathy who is super skilled at manipulating others for his own benefit or amusement?

Not sure how useful it is to seriously analyze this show. But, dredging up what I can from Martha Stout's The Sociopath Next Door about ten years ago, I seem to remember that the clinical pathology is not just the lack of empathy but also a lack of feeling, period. Not only is there no reward in personal relationships (due to the usually natural human empathy,) but there is a tendency to need excitement because ordinary life isn't very rewarding either. Further, there is a compulsiveness to the pursuit of novelty because this lack of feeling tends to creep into every action. The kind of psychopath who engages in extreme violence, as opposed to, say, on line trolling for fun (the kind where lives get ruined I mean,) tends to have traumatic violence in childhood as well as sexual paraphilias like sadism. 

I would have thought it to be considered a matter of course that social factors also cause people to be callous and unfeeling. Society upholds market ethics and values, extols bottom line thinking which comes amazingly close to sounding like the description of the thought processes of a psychopath. Additionally, military training is designed to do away with the natural human empathy most people have, to make it easy to kill.

[Sandman]

What I meant was that he lacks neither empathy nor the understanding of right vs. wrong (two classical makers for sociopathy); I think he's looking for attention. Clearly he doesn't have necessary boundaries, but I think the reveal could end up being that he likes the idea of creeping people out. His sense of humour could be both inappropriate and cruel without actually tipping over into pathology.

[lucindabelle]

On July 7, 2016 at 0:50 AM, NorthstarATL said:

I was afraid that the puppet would turn out to be some grotesque thing made of Caramel, so I was relieved when it was just the kid's doll with the dentures. Pretty boring otherwise.

That was a total fake out. Deliberately. If caramel dies this show is dead to me...

 

 

i think Jack isn not merely attention seeking. If you have empathy you wouldn't chop a living creature to see what happens. Clearly Jack is very interested in "what happens" and in science but a normal child would find other ways. H trying to trap his cousin and h remarks at the funeral were sincere. He doesn't understand the problem.

 

id also add that the knowing creepy smile after he frightened the therapist was too much. But I can see how it would lead you to thnk the child is putting it on. I see it instead as mugging that a director should have reigned in.

[Enigma X]

Some overall burning questions that I have are: Is Cam wearing a wig? Does Garrett have his mouth packed with something? Am I the only one who has these questions?

[halkatla]

This show is terrible, but I´d manage to enjoy it for a moment if it suddenly ended with the whole family getting violently killed, especially the nasty little kid. This show screwed up by making all the characters boring, one-note and un-likable. The plot is also too complicated to work without any introduction and it just wasn´t thought out.