S02.E13: Dragonfly in Amber

[Athena]

Quote

Flashing forward to 1968, Claire travels to Scotland with her twenty-year-old daughter, Brianna, and meets Roger Wakefield. Claire visits Lallybroch and Culloden Moor to make peace with the past, while Brianna and Roger bond over researching Randall family history. Claire finally reveals the truth to Brianna about her time travel through the stones, her life in 1700’s Scotland, and Brianna’s true parentage. The story is intercut with another one back in the 18th century, which happens on the day of the Battle of Culloden. When Jamie’s last ditch attempts to deter The Prince fail, he and Claire come up with a dangerous plan – which Dougal overhears, inciting him to a murderous rage. Jamie must do everything he can to save the ones he loves, even if it means saying goodbye to some — or all — of them.

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

This episode will be 90 minutes long. This thread is open for speculation. If you want to be completely unspoiled, please leave now. Thank you. Have a great long weekend.

[Clawdette]

Spoiler

Am I correct in seeing in the preview that Jamie is with Claire at the stones? If he is, I like that change.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Clawdette

[ulkis]

I have a feeling the episode will open with Jamie and Claire at the stones. If anyone who may have seen this episode already would like to confirm or deny this for me, please do.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

I had convinced myself for some reason that the end who be showing Jamie waking up at Culloden. I guess they wanted to save that for season 3. It's been bothering me a little that they take away Jame moments and give them to other characters..... well now Jamie doesn't even get to name his kid. :/

I did like the episode though. I liked Claire in her driving glasses for some reason. Bree and Roger aren't my favorite characters so meh.

On 7/6/2016 at 11:44 PM, ulkis said:

I have a feeling the episode will open with Jamie and Claire at the stones. If anyone who may have seen this episode already would like to confirm or deny this for me, please do.

It does not start that way.

[toolazy]

I'm a mess and not able to speak coherently about anything much but as much as I was riveted by the whole episode, I'm not wild about the very end with the "I can go back" business.  But that's really just nitpicking.  So far none of the changes to the 20th century story bug me too much and the 18th century story was pretty much on point. On the other hand, I've been sipping whisky from my Outlander flask so it's possible that in the cold light of day I'll be more critical. 

I think I squeed in that opening scene where Claire turns up as just one of the people at the Reverend's funeral. 

I also have to say that so far I'm not loving Brianna, but then I didn't love her in the books, either.  At least her American accent is decent - one of the best I've heard.  

I think I'm going to watch a second time right now.

[ulkis]

Roger was adorable, him and his coats and his sweaters.

Brianna . . . er. The actress was not horrible, but in a cast that is mostly terrific, her line readings were not great. I think she was struggling with the accent a bit. Well, hopefully she improves.

CB was so good, but my favorite bit for her was probably the scenes with Brianna in the middle of the episode.

And SH was great when they killed Dougal. Poor Jamie was so horrified.

I don't think Claire should have been the one to suggest she return but I don't feel too strongly about it.

Also not sure how I feel about the quick romp before the stones but otherwise the scene was well done. (That's me being restrained).

Edited July 13, 2016 by ulkis

[ulkis]

19 minutes ago, toolazy said:

I also have to say that so far I'm not loving Brianna, but then I didn't love her in the books, either.  At least her American accent is decent - one of the best I've heard.  

I liked her as written - I liked the "how about we keep an open tab" line, but I thought her performance was hit and miss. The candence of her speech felt off to me. Was she doing a credible Boston accent? Maybe that's why it didn't sound right to me, I'm not very familiar with it.

[theschnauzers]

There are various Boston accents, but the key was that Brianna sounded American, and that did work.

 

The episode itself -- wow. Just wow! What was important to me is that the main story points in the original DiA be about where book 2 of the series ends, and they managed to get the high points all in, and get the stage set for Book 3, Voyager.

I loved the various 1968 touches with the music, Bear clearly was doing musical research, and the Avengers clip was a hoot (being old enough to have seen the original series back in the day). All the little elements tying the Claire of the 1740s to the 1960s (the deed, the dragonfly in amber, the ring we saw at the beginning of the season missing the stone, and what it was, the correspondence between the Reverend and Frank that no one else knew about until Claire and Bri came to the Reverend's funeral, the connection between Roger and Gellis (but I have to go back and check, wasn't that in a later novel of the series originally?).

Ron and Company squeezed a LOT into the last few episodes and I'm almost glad for the break. Need to watch a few more times!

[maraleia]

I read that they wanted Bree to have a standard Midwestern accent because she went to Catholic school and a Bostonian accent would've been drilled out of her. Also, having Claire as a mom would affect her speech patterns.

Anyway, I loved it because we got the best of all the characters and it filled in a lot of the history for non-book readers who've refused to research the books like I have. Would I have liked to see more Claire and Jamie intimacy? Yes! Let's hope that we get lots of it next season when they reconnect.

Sophie has only been in a couple of known series and is around 22 years old so I say give her some time to sink her teeth in the role.

If anyone hasn't had a chance check Richard out in Thirteen on BBC America. He plays DI Elliot Carnes in the show. FYI Richard is 33 years old and only four years younger than Cait.

[Dust Bunny]

That was beautiful.

Full disclosure: I didn’t cry. I guess real world sadness mellowed out my emotions with the finale. In that regard, I wish it had aired last week.

Everything about the 60s was great and had a warm dynamic. It felt as cozy as the clothes looked. As soon as I saw the woman by Richard, I said “Fiona!” I loved the shade she threw at Brianna in that one shot.

I LOVE Sophie and Richard. They’re great together. It tickles me to think all the chemistry testing they did between them and Cait and Sam. I bet those were fun times in casting.

How great was all the Revolutionary War seed planting? Fort Ticonderoga, for crying out loud. The flogging site was a bit anvilicious, but it worked.

So glad to get the “God, you’re so like him” line. It’s so iconic.

There was a moment when Claire was rubbing her feet by the fire that reminded me of when Jamie did that for her when she was pregnant with Faith.

Did anyone else expect a big shock or blue lighting to happen when Roger and Geillis shook hands? And I’m assuming this means Geillis will recognize Bree when she sees the photos in season 3. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

A wee nitpick: no way some of those documents survive being exposed to the elements like that. The Reverend would be much more protective of those artifacts. But then again, Frank burned an authentic 18th century Scottish gown. Apparently artifacts basically fall from the sky on this show, so maybe they don’t need as much attention or care.

I absolutely loved that Claire helped Jamie kill Dougal. It was beautiful. That act of love, support, and being with him every step of the way exemplifies their marriage. And it was mirrored when Jamie guided Claire’s hand to touch the stone. That might be one of my favorite changes of this season.

Roger sings! I had forgotten about the rat satire. That was a fun inclusion. The Minister's cat is an amused cat.

Claire’s conversation to Jamie by the Fraser stone. Sigh. “Rest easy, soldier”. Sigh.

I like that Bree did the math and realized Frank wasn’t her biological father. It gives Bree more agency, and I think it also makes it easier for Bree to accept the truth, rather than being told that, as part of the larger Jamie story. I love how Roger calms Bree down. They’re such a good yin and yang for each other.

Such a great choice that Claire DOES cry when she tells Bree about Jamie. It’s like she finally has emotional honesty. She’s no longer bound to the promises she made to both her husbands on that account. She’s finally freed to feel things she’s kept bottled up for 20 years.

Wonderful Murtagh with his “surprised it took you that long to kill him”. We needed a laugh right about then.

The Fergus goodbye gutted me. I loved how Jamie also told Fergus that it was important that someone remembers what happens at Culloden. Jamie is entrusting that to Fergus. In some ways, that’s more momentous than saving Lallybroch. “Mon fils. I love you like a son.” “Like our own son.” I’m so glad Romann Berrux will be back next season.

I gotta admit, I thought they were going to cut all the stuff. But sacrifice and Geillis’ evil insanity play a big role in season 3, so it makes sense it was all kept. Claire stealing the journals from Greg’s house is SO CLAIRE.

It was a little jarring to me when we got a Claire voiceover while reading the journals. Who is Claire speaking to? All this time, I’ve imagined she’s been telling Bree and Roger the story, so I had a visceral reaction when she had a voice over here.

I knew Murtagh wouldn’t abandon Jamie. It doesn’t look good for Murtagh, you guys. :( If he does die at Culloden, I hope they filmed what happened. That’s a mystery we still don’t know in the books.

I enjoyed the timey-wimey discussion of what would happen to Roger if Claire talked to Geillis. They at least acknowledged the consideration, and then it ended with Claire’s “I don’t know how all this works.” I think that’s a sufficient way to leave it for now, and it’ll pacify some nonbook readers

“But this home is lost.” Damn, that’s a good line. Cait’s eyes are filled to the brim with tears. She’s amazing.

“Fucking barbeque” shout-out! (Ooo, that’s a sentence I might have to add to my lexicon.)

Thought of your quote, WatchrTina, during the good-bye scene: 

Quote

Oh. My. GOD that good-bye scene.  If we do not get the "Lord, ye gave me a rare woman, and God! I loved her well" speech I will fucking riot.  It won't be very effective, all alone in my apartment, but I will RIOT.  And we need slow, tender, nekkid goodbye sex; followed (in the morning) by fully dressed, up against the wall, urgent, last-chance, goodbye sex.  Mark me, it's important!

Hopefully you don't feel you have to riot. :)

That dialogue was perfectly delivered, directed, and edited. And the goodbye sex was so natural, organically happening after Jamie’s declaration. The cannon blast right afterwards is so powerful too. For a scene that has such high expectations, I think this stone scene is light-years better than the one in “Devil’s Mark”.

Loved, loved, LOVED how Jamie guides Claire up to the stone without breaking his gaze from her face. It is so characteristic for Jamie. He memorizes faces and moments like that. And in MOBY, when Claire is shot, Jamie is afraid to look away from Claire’s face for one instant, in case she dies. Here too, he doesn’t want to miss one second of his remaining time with her. Wonderful writing and direction. And again – him helping her touch the stone. So perfect.

And because I need to end this day/week with a laugh, outside of the goodbye scene, my favorite lines were:

“Maybe we keep an open mind.” “How ‘bout we keep an open tab instead.”

I love this show.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Dust Bunny

[ulkis]

55 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

There are various Boston accents, but the key was that Brianna sounded American, and that did work.

I heard it slip a few times, at least I thought I did, but going by what @maraleia said, I guess I can fanwank that her parents' accents influenced hers a bit.

[metaphor]

I have to admit that my interest in the season sort of waned these past couple of episodes, but I really enjoyed this episode.

Richard Rankin charmed me as Roger. I thought he was especially excellent in that first whisky scene with Claire. Sophie Skelton was a pleasant surprise. I was expecting the worst after reading some comments of people who'd gotten to watch earlier, but I liked her Bree and look forward to seeing more. I thought she had a good chemistry with Richard, and she ably conveyed Brianna's love for Frank. 

I liked the reveal of Geillis/Gillian. I've missed Lotte Verbeek.

"I said I won't have you dying for nothing." / "I won't be; I'll be dying with you." marked the first time I teared up watching the episode. Oh, Murtagh.

Caitriona was excellent as usual, both in the "present" and the past. Claire refusing to leave Jamie was fantastic. The way her eyes searched his, desperately trying to find another way out of the unfolding tragedy... so moving. It was the emotional highlight of the episode for me. And Sam was wonderful as well with Jamie's speech at the stones. I missed the carving of initials because it was such an moving moment in the books, but I liked how Jamie helped Claire touch her hand to the stones. Partners. 

Will have to watch this episode again to take it all in, but overall, a good end to the season. Looking forward to S3. 

[morgan]

Just finished and yes I sobbed at Jamie's speech.  So incredibly happy they included it.  And I snorted when Bree gave the "no lies" speech to Claire.  overall I liked it, need to rewatch to appreciate better the changes.  Costuming and music were as amazing as they usually are.  

I wasn't expecting quite such a fractured storyline.  More back and forth than I expected, although I did assume some fracturing and expected the parting to happen when it did.  

I did like the whole Gillian Edgar's thing with Bree, and yes that does change voyager a bit, at least I assume she will recognize the pictures of Bree.

Baffled by the change to Claire saying she will name the baby Brian vs Jamie asking her to.  

Looking forward to a rewatch later.

[Petunia846]

So, I am pleased. I liked that a lot. Maybe even that other L word...yeah, okay, I loved it.

In the books I wasn't a fan of Bree and Roger until they went back to modern times and fixed up Lallybroch and all that stuff, but show-wise I'm already a big fan. I'm super pleased with both actors and while Bree can obviously be kind of annoying, it's easier to forgive her for that because she's so damn young, and she really has just been blindsided with A LOT of craziness, all while clearly still mourning the man she thought was her father. I'm fully onboard the Bree and Roger bandwagon and can't wait for all that I know we have to look forward to. I find them completely adorable together.

Some disjointed thoughts...

I laughed at the "fucking BBQ" line, but that was actually a bit much. It took me out of the moment.

I got chills just hearing Geillis/Gillian's voice as Bree was walking up to the speech and just circling around the crowd at first. Great directing there. That was so much more effective than just showing us Gillian straight away. It was like hearing the voice of a ghost. Lottie's voice is so distinct. I thought that was perfect, and I also just liked the way they adapted that whole storyline of finding out about Gillian and tracking her down. It was much more organic than in the books and the way they streamlined it took much less time.

I almost cried seeing Lallybroch because man, it looks ROUGH. Hearing the voices there was great, as was the brief shot of Jamie there.

I did cry at the end of Claire's "talk" with Jamie at Culloden, and I don't cry easily.

I must give one last shout out to Murtagh's eyebrows, because man did they do some great acting when Jamie told him they'd killed Dougal. Ha! I had to laugh.

Sweet Fergus! I'm glad he got to leave with the knowledge that Claire and Jamie thought of him as a son.

The scene with Claire and Jamie at the stones was pretty much perfect. Definitely loved him being there with her and forcing/guiding her hand to the stones. Both of them crying. My only thought was that without the redcoats being there, will Jamie break his nose and then if not, what will Claire say when she approaches him at the print shop? I love that line, "When did you break your nose?" "About two minutes after I last saw you, Sassenach." (Hope that's correct, I just did that from memory...which tells you how often I reread that bit...) And then she touches the break and he faints. I guess this doesn't prevent that from still happening, because we don't see what happened to Jamie after Claire touched the stones. He could still run into redcoats on his way back, so I'm not going to worry.

I was only really disappointed by the end. I did not get chills by Roger's information about how the one Fraser guy escaped Culloden, because Claire wasn't as completely gutted at that point as she was in the books, there was a dead guy burning up on the hill that they were all just ignoring, Bree kept chiming in, and they didn't stop it at that line. I kind of hated everything that happened after that, the way it got brighter (both the color saturation and the light), the way they zoomed in on Cait's eyes, the music swelling, all the extra lines about how he could be alive and she had to go back, the zoom in on the stone. It was too much, it got really cheesy. The quiet moment in the book was better because it trusted the reader to reach all of those conclusions themselves. It trusted in the strength of what it was saying, it didn't have to rely on melodrama. It just laid it out and let it be. All that zooming and light brightening reminded me too much of the megacheese from last season with Claire and Frank both screaming at the stones, and in that moment, the last thing I wanted to be thinking about was Frank. Boo.

I also didn't care for the music over the closing credits. I would have liked something nice and dramatic from Bear. I wonder though, was that the song that they were talking about on The Scot and the Sassenach podcast that they predicted Ron would put in the episode?

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Baffled by the change to Claire saying she will name the baby Brian vs Jamie asking her to.

Especially since didn't Claire say earlier in the episode that Jamie had asked her to do that?

Edited July 9, 2016 by Petunia846

[morgan]

I agree completely about the final scene miss.  It definitely verged on the cheesy and didn't work for me.  Also about the direction/hearing Gillian's voice before we saw her.  Beautifully done.

I'm guessing there will be no nose break.

[toolazy]

I absolutely loved that they opened with a doorbell knowing what all the readers are expecting.  Cheeky, that. 

[morgan]

Toolazy, I was half asleep when I started watching this morning and hadn't picked up on that.  Good one!

[Wouldofshouldof]

Dammit, I just spent the last 90 minutes alternately choked up/in tears.  I knew I would be, though, so...

I forgot about the carving of initials.  I wish they had done that.  It's so touching over the years to come when they individually touch their scars in remembrance. 

Roger is perfect - I already love him, though based on his singing of the Rat song I'm guessing they stray from the books and he's not going to be such a good singer.  That was rough.

I wish I liked Bree more.  She really needs to be taller - at least taller than Claire!  Although if they manage to give her as fierce a personality as she has in the books, I'll be OK with Sophie as Bree.

I can't improve on what everyone has already said about Jamie and Claire's parting.  Except for the missing carved initials, it was perfect.  I'm so glad I've read ahead (I'm halfway through My Own Hearts Blood and tryyyyying to take it slowly so I don't finish any time soon!).  Knowing what is coming makes it much easier to handle this goodbye.

[Petunia846]

I'm okay without the initials carving because even in the book that struck me as pretty insanely intense. I could barely watch Jamie fighting with Dougal and getting cut with the dirk, I don't want to imagine having to watch them cut into each other that way. Too bloody for me. I think I read that they weren't going to do the initials because it would be too hard to keep up with the scar make-up in future filming. Jamie's back is one thing because we don't see it all the time, but they'd have to always have those scars on the hands because we see hands so much and also they would have trouble keeping the scars on because Cait and Sam use their hands so much. I don't know if that's true, but I didn't miss that. (See? I'm not against changes to the book.)

Also, I think they're still going with Roger as a singer, because Richard is a singer, too. I suppose that was just kind of a silly, off the cuff song, plus he looked half-terrified/embarrassed to be doing it in front of Bree who he already had a crush on. Poor guy.

[AheadofStraight]

I really enjoyed that. I had to get past a lot changing from the book but overall I liked it. I GOT MY DIALOG!!!!!! And was even word for word. Happy lass, here!  I didn't really cry until those ending scenes though. Maybe because my family kept interrupting.

Had some minor nitpicks from changes made:

1) In the books, Claire is deliberate about seeking out Roger for research on what happened to the men. Here it just fell into her lap and she wasn't even looking for info on what happened to everyone

2) Did not like Claire picking out the name

3) Since we didn't get the ring inscription, I was glad at least to have the poem read by Jamie while she was at Lallybroch

4) They didn't have C&J decide NOT to actually poison Dougal in the end and then no mention of Dougal admitting he had previously tried to kill Jamie. (Though I don't think Jamie's earlier head injury has ever come up so wouldn't have made sense.)

5) Bree was a history major??

Really happy they eliminated the chasing around for Gillian and just did it all very quickly. Overall, I think most of the changes will really work for me on future viewings. The ending was definitely a bit cheesy. Yes to whoever above said this version of the stones was MUCH better than the choice scenes from last season. Also, loved that they kept in that Jamie was tracking her courses and knew she was pg. Fist bump to Murtagh's eyebrows.

[Wouldofshouldof]

I think they added just the right amount of grey to 1968 Claire's hair to age her.  Now we just have to see what they do to Jamie!

The thing I've always wondered about Bree's name is, in Voyager, when Claire tells Jamie, he thinks it's awful and changes the pronunciation.  I thought that meant Claire was saying BRI-anna, which would sound more like Brian, and Jamie changes it to BREE-anna.  That's not the case in the show, though.

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

5) Bree was a history major??

As I recall, she was a history major at first, to honor Frank's memory, and then changed her major to engineering after she returned from Scotland. I might not have the timeline entirely correct though. 

[fangirl]

9 hours ago, ulkis said:

I liked her as written - I liked the "how about we keep an open tab" line, but I thought her performance was hit and miss. The candence of her speech felt off to me. Was she doing a credible Boston accent? Maybe that's why it didn't sound right to me, I'm not very familiar with it.

I agree.  The accent was a little too California, not New England, but the bigger problem is that I had trouble believing in this Bree as an intellectual. Some actresses can carry off high intelligence, like Cait, but this actress does not yet (I'm hoping things will change) show the gravitas of a highly educated young woman.  She also stuck out as a weaker actor than the others, but perhaps it is the double duty of carrying the accent.

[AheadofStraight]

Thanks DittyDotDot - I didn't remember that at all.

[toolazy]

28 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

I think they added just the right amount of grey to 1968 Claire's hair to age her.  Now we just have to see what they do to Jamie!

The thing I've always wondered about Bree's name is, in Voyager, when Claire tells Jamie, he thinks it's awful and changes the pronunciation.  I thought that meant Claire was saying BRI-anna, which would sound more like Brian, and Jamie changes it to BREE-anna.  That's not the case in the show, though.

Claire pronounces it "Bree-ANN-ah."  Jamie pronounces it "BREE-annah."  The emphasis switches from the second to the first syllable. 

[Wouldofshouldof]

5 minutes ago, toolazy said:

Claire pronounces it "Bree-ANN-ah."  Jamie pronounces it "BREE-annah."  The emphasis switches from the second to the first syllable. 

Thanks.  I guess I didn't think the "anna" part was important :)

[CatMack]

31 minutes ago, fangirl said:

...but this actress does not yet (I'm hoping things will change) show the gravitas of a highly educated young woman.  

Bree is, at most, going into her sophomore year of college.  Even with highly intelligent parents raising her I wouldn't expect any 20 year old who's only been to college one year to have the gravitas of a highly educated young woman.  She's just barely graduated from teenager to young adult, and I think she's acting pretty age appropriate. 

I have no problem with Sophie's portrayal and I think Bree and Roger are adorable.  I liked Bree quite a lot actually, but then in the books I get annoyed at Jamie more often than I get annoyed at Bree so I'm clearly a fandom outlier.  

I have to run to work but I'll probably post more thoughts later.  Fast impression was excellent.

[Starla]

In the last scene, when Claire turned around and looked at the stones, I couldn't help but think the words "We have to go back Kate." It was the only moment through the show that my mind wandered outside the Outlander-verse. The whole episode was so good I actually cried several times which I didn't expect.

The song at the end was "Time Has Come Today" by The Chambers Brothers. I love the music of the late 60s/early 70s, and that song is one of my faves. I thought it was a perfect for the show, being about time. It's not the song from Battlestar Gallactica, All Along the Watchtower. I was listening out for that one and am glad they didn't use it.

Most importantly,  I adore show Roger as much as book Roger. He and Fergus have my heart. 

[Clawdette]

I actually sobbed.  Out loud.   I generally don't do that so the episode exceeded my expectations.  I had never seen Richard Rankin in anything so for me, he is Roger.  And, a fine one, too.  Sophie was okay and I think she did a 20-year-old pretty well.

I agree that Claire assisting in Dougal's death was in keeping with the Jamie/Claire relationship.  Sam's eyes in the apex of that scene were so expressive.  As expected, it's Rupert who agrees to the getaway time.

The touching part of the deed of sasine scene for me was when Murtagh bowed to Fergus.  I wanted Murtagh to agree to take the Lallybroch men home but that wouldn't be true to his character (and the book if we're being literal).  

I had tried to imagine how Sam would utter the "I loved her well" speech but his deliverance exceeded anything I came up with.  I had to rewatch that immediately.  And, I loved how Jamie guided Claire's hands to the stones.

I know the 60s stuff was necessary to set the stage for next year so I tried not to think hurryuphurryup and get back to the past.  i just want my JamieClaire.

No Outlander and no Game of Thrones for a year.  Thank goodness football season is around the corner.

[Dust Bunny]

7 hours ago, metaphor said:

Richard Rankin charmed me as Roger. I thought he was especially excellent in that first whisky scene with Claire. Sophie Skelton was a pleasant surprise. I was expecting the worst after reading some comments of people who'd gotten to watch earlier, but I liked her Bree and look forward to seeing more. I thought she had a good chemistry with Richard, and she ably conveyed Brianna's love for Frank. 

Agreed. I, too, read some negative comments about Sophie on Reddit, after I watched. I had no problem with her either. She kind of came of as naive, compared to everyone else. That works for me, since she's younger than everyone else (8 years younger than Roger) and hasn't been as hardened by life as others. She lost her daddy, which is traumatic, of course, but she's been raised in a very white collar world. Even Roger grew up in the wild country of Scotland and, as we learn later, worked as a seaman for a time. Brianna gets exposed to more intense things as the series goes on; Sophie has a lot of time to demonstrate that. We saw Sam bring it this this year with the development of Jamie becoming the King of Men. I remember one of the audition scenes was when Brianna tells Claire she's pregnant, which will be in season 4. The casting has been stellar so far; I trust that they saw that Sophie can carry Brianna's development. I feel the same way about Richard/Roger. I don't know what were the Roger audition scenes, but I like to imagine the fight between Jamie and Roger when Roger arrives at the cabin after Jem's birth in Drums of Autumn was one of them. Richard would have to show he can stand toe-to-toe with Himself (i.e., Sam's Jamie) and earn Jamie's respect. And Richard also brings Roger's quiet and peaceful nature, like when he calms Brianna. You can already see how he'll become a minister several years down the line.

I agree about the chemistry between Sophie and Richard. They're adorable together. It's different than Claire and Jamie, but it is in the books as well. I'm looking forward to seeing their relationship develop in the 60s.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Dust Bunny

[Petunia846]

For me I liked Sophie because all the times she was ranting and raving at Claire it reminded me of that famed Fraser temper. I could see her nose to nose with a young Jenny or young Jamie having a shouting match. And then of course, in that sense, Roger reminds me so much of Ian, the one who can calm the wild, headstrong, stubborn Fraser blood with just a gentle touch. We don't really get to see what Jamie was like at Bree's relative age (although he's not much older than she is here at the start of S1), but I can easily picture him like Bree, kind of flippant and brash, thinking he/she knows everything and can be the judge of what's right. Is it terribly endearing to watch right now? No, of course not, but I think it's exactly right for the character and where she is, not just in her actual age but also in a relative emotional age (having led a much more sheltered life than Jamie did).

[TiredMe]

I think the girl playing Brianna needs some practice. Her delivery took me out of several scenes. Hopefully she will improve. I really liked the guy playing Roger. 

Too little Sam. But overall, not even a smidgeon of a tear watching this. Hmm maybe I need to watch it again. 

I Was moved by the visit to Cullodeen. It's on my list to visit when I go to Scotland next month. I'm also doing a tour to filming sites. Going to try to watch season 1 again before going. 

[WatchrTina]

Wow.  I loved that.  

I'm not going to say much now because I have to go watch it again.  But there is so much to love.

One thing that I think is VERY interesting is that they had a pretty major divergence from the book.  In the book, Claire proposes the idea of poisoning Charles and Jamie considers it and then says "I cannot", to which Claire replies "Oh God, Jamie, I'm glad of it!"  TVJamie was totally going to kill Charles.  I agree with the change -- it makes more sense.  The episode makes clear what Jamie has been driven to by Charles' asinine little speech to Jamie early in the ep.  And by having Dougal overhear Jamie actually agree with Claire that they should kill Charles, it makes Dougal's actions more justified (whereas in the book he must have heard Jamie say "I cannot" and Claire say "I'm glad of it" but he goes all irrationally murderous anyway.

Mon Dieu that fight was agonizing to watch.

[ulkis]

30 minutes ago, Petunia846 said:

For me I liked Sophie because all the times she was ranting and raving at Claire it reminded me of that famed Fraser temper. I could see her nose to nose with a young Jenny or young Jamie having a shouting match. And then of course, in that sense, Roger reminds me so much of Ian, the one who can calm the wild, headstrong, stubborn Fraser blood with just a gentle touch. We don't really get to see what Jamie was like at Bree's relative age (although he's not much older than she is here at the start of S1), but I can easily picture him like Bree, kind of flippant and brash, thinking he/she knows everything and can be the judge of what's right. Is it terribly endearing to watch right now? No, of course not, but I think it's exactly right for the character and where she is, not just in her actual age but also in a relative emotional age (having led a much more sheltered life than Jamie did).

Oh, I don't have a problem with any of Bree's actions or what she says. Crazy mom is in her face yelling about stones and screaming "you're just like him!!! We made sweet love on a mountaintop and we made you!! Love this random dude who you just found out about five seconds ago!!!" I do feel sympathy for her. It was the actress who didn't quite gel for me. 

2 hours ago, AheadofStraight said:

4) They didn't have C&J decide NOT to actually poison Dougal in the end and then no mention of Dougal admitting he had previously tried to kill Jamie. (Though I don't think Jamie's earlier head injury has ever come up so wouldn't have made sense.)

Yeah, they never brought it up.

I don't really care that they have Claire the one to suggest Brianna's name, but I'm kinda confused as to why they gave her that as well. Maybe to show that she was starting to be willing to go back?

5 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

I also didn't care for the music over the closing credits. I would have liked something nice and dramatic from Bear. 

Yeah, I agree. Good song, but I kinda wanted the music to continue on from the last scene.

10 hours ago, Dust Bunny said:

It was a little jarring to me when we got a Claire voiceover while reading the journals. Who is Claire speaking to? All this time, I’ve imagined she’s been telling Bree and Roger the story, so I had a visceral reaction when she had a voice over here.

Yeah, I thought the same. I guess I'll switch it over to Claire is writing her memoirs or something.

3 hours ago, toolazy said:

I absolutely loved that they opened with a doorbell knowing what all the readers are expecting.  Cheeky, that. 

Can you explain please? Thanks in advance. 

[Dust Bunny]

22 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Mon Dieu that fight was agonizing to watch.

It reminded me a bit of a scene in "Saving Private Ryan", when one of the soldiers is killed like that; it was awful to watch. This one was a little less graphic than that, but it was still awful to watch because we see a nephew forced to kill his uncle. Said nephew couldn't do it himself, so his wife has to give him strength - physically and emotionally. I really like how that was written and directed.

[Dust Bunny]

10 minutes ago, ulkis said:

2 hours ago, AheadofStraight said:

4) They didn't have C&J decide NOT to actually poison Dougal in the end and then no mention of Dougal admitting he had previously tried to kill Jamie. (Though I don't think Jamie's earlier head injury has ever come up so wouldn't have made sense.)

Yeah, they never brought it up.

In The Gathering, when Claire is in the stable trying to escape and explaining how she had to knock Dougal out because he was close to sexual assault and saw she had packed to leave, Jamie says something like "I hope you left a mark so he remembers his error in judgement." While saying that, he puts his hand to the back of his head. It seemed an intentional choice, and I've always thought that's Sam nodding to that injury for the book readers, even though the event wasn't brought up on the show. Similar to his tapping his fingers or squeezing a ball of rags to exercise his healing hand.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Dust Bunny
context is good

[fangirl]

I thought they did a spectacular job. I love the way they play with expectation on this show!  The doorbell rings and you think is going to be Claire's house or something and the it's Emma Peel's house -- on a TV show, for example, or Jamie's original reaction to when Claire tells him she's from the future -- At first he looks off, a bit disaffected; you think it's going one way and then he smiles and says "No, I believe ye."  I am one of those who have complained that there hasn't been enough Jamie and Claire relationship stuff this season, but this one really satisfied that desire.  Some people on Diana's forum were feeling that the intimacy had not been established firmly enough to earn the dramatic separation emotionally. I felt it, though. I felt like we were back in the Outlander world that I adore in this episode.  That said, I think just a few more touches earlier in the season would have helped (not shying away during the "fade to black" scene, for example would have really clenched it), but that said, I totally believed in their despair and heartbreak and I loved that Jamie held her hands over the stones!  That is so Jamie Fraser! So selfless and nurturing. I do agree that overall we need more of Jamie Fraser!  He is just eye candy and thought candy and heart candy!

[fangirl]

15 minutes ago, Dust Bunny said:

Said nephew couldn't do it himself, so his wife has to give him strength - physically and emotionally. I really like how that was written and directed.

Sam was amazing the way he delivered some very hard lines. He made the romanticism real and crushingly honest. Jamie Fraser was really there on the screen and it was thrilling.

About the quote above: I can't decide how I feel about Claire needing to help Jamie. It's wonderful that they do it as a couple, but they have taken away a lot of agency from Jamie this season and it gets a bit waring.   It seems like it's a bit castrating to suggest he couldn't do it on his own, like he's not strong enough physically or emotionally.  In the end, I personally wish it had just been Jamie doing it. Similarly, I wonder why they didn't have him refuse to kill the king when she suggests it.  Does that make him look too weak?  or is it not good for him to argue with her? It poses the problem of why woudn't he follow through with killing the king then if TV Jamie was going to do it before he killed his uncle?  Hmmmmm. Just wondering what their thinking was about these choices.

[Wouldofshouldof]

Because the show has strayed from the books in certain ways, I was nervous during the scene at the stones after Claire, Bree and Roger watched Geillis go through.  When Roger and Bree told Claire Jamie hadn't died at Culloden, she took some steps going back towards the stones, and I half thought she was going to impulsively run through them immediately.  I was like, No, Wait!  You need to have a dress made and get some money first!  So glad they didn't go that route.

[maraleia]

1 hour ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

Because the show has strayed from the books in certain ways, I was nervous during the scene at the stones after Claire, Bree and Roger watched Geillis go through.  When Roger and Bree told Claire Jamie hadn't died at Culloden, she took some steps going back towards the stones, and I half thought she was going to impulsively run through them immediately.  I was like, No, Wait!  You need to have a dress made and get some money first!  So glad they didn't go that route.

And gather her pictures of Bree so she can show them to Jamie. Is there anything else Claire brings back to the past with her?

[AD55]

3 minutes ago, maraleia said:

And gather her pictures of Bree so she can show them to Jamie. Is there anything else Claire brings back to the past with her?

The only other things I recall are a peanut butter sandwich and penicillin. I've just stupidly spoiled myself for the episode by reading all your comments. Just couldn't help myself since I can't watch it until tonight.

[WatchrTina]

Just finished my second viewing.  Here's a random thought.  It was brilliant of them to have Murtagh declare that he would be waiting at Culloden Field to fight beside Jamie.  First of all it's just what he WOULD do and secondly, it gives Jamie a positive reason to join the battle.  When Jamie goes back to the battlefield he's not a suicidal man, giving up and going to his doom -- he's a loyal man riding back to the battlefield to fight beside his godfather, who is waiting for him.  I like that better.

2nd random thought --- BookWillie, who witnessed BookJamie's killing of BookDougal, survived the Battle of Culloden and died in prison, but not before telling someone about what he witnessed.  The person he told shows up in a later book to threaten Jamie.  This means TVRupert survived the battle!  What do you want to bet that if we get to book 6 (or is it 7?), Rupert will show up again -- at least in a flashback -- to close the loop on this story line?  I don't think he can be the one to threaten Jamie because that would be out of character, but we can at least see him in a flashback.

Off to watch again.  Maybe this time they'll kill the damned bonnie prince.

[maraleia]

FYI I saw that Cait will be tweeting during the Eastern/Central time zones airing tonight. Not sure about the rest.

[Glaze Crazy]

I'm in agreement about the final scene at the stones in 1968. They could have left it at the reveal of Jamie not dying at Culloden and maybe added Claire asking Roger to help find out what did happen to him after the battle. That would have been enough of a set up for next season, since as has been said, she doesn't just run up and jump through the stones immediately. They might as well have left it as a Can she? / Will she? / Won't she? scenario for the beginning of next year.

That said, I really liked the rest of it. I immediately liked Richard Rankin as Roger.  He nailed it in the scene with Claire, drinking whisky in front of the fire.  Loved that conversation when he asks how do you let someone you love go. He's thinking his father and asking her because of Frank's death, but Claire is only thinking about Jamie.  Both actors knocked that scene out of the park.

Using the Fraser clan stone at Culloden for Claire to connect with Jamie was really a good change. At that point where else would he be for all she knows?  Also loved the whole scene at Lallybroch with all the voices and her seeing the image of Jamie at the gate arch. I'm guessing that's how the building actually looks but it was so sad to see it without windows and the roof fallen in. That's going to be one heck of a restoration project for Bree and Roger in a future season, LOL. In the book, other than neglect and being empty for years, Lallybroch at least still had a roof and had been lived in until sometime in the 20th century, since Brianna muses about the hot water geyser in the upstairs bath being in working condition when they move in. I wondered if in the scene where Claire goes to the records office and finds the deed of sasine that she would then go and find out who owned it now and buy it. Get that restoration started and save some time later! I know they needed to set up the Roger/Gellis connection but I thought Claire asking for Roger's genealogy on a hunch just a bit odd, especially since Roger says MacKenzie is a common surname in the area, but a minor thing I guess.

I liked how they showed Gellis/Gillian and what she was up to before she went through the stones. It was simple and still told the backstory of how and/or why she went to the past. But I don't think they have really defined how the stones work yet so I'm hoping they have several conversations ready for the next few seasons so the characters can try and work out what might be happening.

Sophie Skelton did a pretty good job trying to bring to life a character who, at this point in the story, doesn't have much definition at all. I really got the sense of a young woman raised in the USA with just a book knowledge of Scotland history. I also liked that she challenged Gillian a bit from that point of view and not a patriotic one. Also that Brianna has the view that her mother lives in a different world. I was laughing when Roger was willing to go to the stones to help Claire stop Gillian and Brianna was all "Really? You too? Stop encouraging her!"

Dougal's death was well staged and I was not unpleasantly surprised that Claire took some part in the fight. 

Loved how BPC finally went off the tracks and completely put himself in the position of Jesus. And, for some reason, I liked that the wax figure at Culloden looked a lot like the actor. I don't know why it wouldn't have, I was just surprised by it, I guess.

In fact the whole run up to Claire leaving the past was well done. Murtaugh telling Jamie he would die beside him on Culloden and the hugs for Fergus and telling him he was their real son was well done. I never got the sense from the books that Claire really bonded with Fergus in the early years so I'm glad they emphasized it in the show.

Jamie and Claire at the stones was a great adaptation. They hit the important bits and really showed the characters' complete devastation at having to part. I almost wish they had shown the aftermath of Jamie standing next to the stone alone after Claire goes through. That would have been even more gut wrenching though.  Maybe that will be in some future episode. 

[Keeta]

8 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

"Baffled by the change to Claire saying she will name the baby Brian vs Jamie asking her to."

Especially since didn't Claire say earlier in the episode that Jamie had asked her to do that?

I believe she said something along the lines of "like I promised him I would".

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

"I absolutely loved that they opened with a doorbell knowing what all the readers are expecting.  Cheeky, that. "

Can you explain please? Thanks in advance. 

IIRC, DiA starts with Claire ringing Roger's doorbell.

[WatchrTina]

One more random thought.  Jamie Fraser will forever be my favorite but I think I might be getting a wee crush on Roger MacKenzie Wakefield.  The discomfort he displays when he gets caught in the middle of Brianna & Claire's fight adds a welcome moment of humor to an otherwise deeply dark episode.  And his grief in the opening scenes, during the wake and when talking to Claire by the fire, was entirely believable.  Richard Rankin is going to be terrific in that role.

Edited July 9, 2016 by WatchrTina

[AheadofStraight]

26 minutes ago, maraleia said:

FYI I saw that Cait will be tweeting during the Eastern/Central time zones airing tonight. Not sure about the rest.

Sam will be too and it's at like 2am where they are! 

20 minutes ago, Glaze Crazy said:

Jamie and Claire at the stones was a great adaptation. They hit the important bits and really showed the characters' complete devastation at having to part. I almost wish they had shown the aftermath of Jamie standing next to the stone alone after Claire goes through. That would have been even more gut wrenching though.  Maybe that will be in some future episode. 

I keep picturing this in my mind as well. Showing Jamie's face see that the stones really work. Sam would nail it.

[Keeta]

Okay, that was really, really well done. Whew! And I’m glad to say I don’t really have any nitpicky complaints about changes from the book for this episode, which is nice.

What a showcase for Caitriona. Wow. All of her 1960’s scenes were just tremendous. Okay fine, the whole episode really, but it’s those scenes in particular that stuck out to me, how she conveyed Claire’s depth and complexity of feeling after 20 years. Amazing.

I got super excited when Jamie started his speech at the stones, because I could tell it was going exactly the way it is in the book, which rarely happens on the show. Definitely sat up a bit straighter, lol! Sam’s delivery was spot on. I’m so glad that his acting always seems to be in peak form during these emotionally charged scenes with Caitriona. Happy sigh.

Very pleased with Brianna and Roger. I love how Claire’s lines about Brianna being “so like” Jamie make total sense when you look at Sophie in this episode. Speaking of Sophie, I thought her acting was overall pretty solid, and hopefully will just improve as she gets more to do. (One funny sidenote, the way she said the word “anything” the way a Brit would is hilarious to me. For some reason that word always signals when it's a British person doing an American accent.)

I suppose the only drawback from all the wonderful J&C-related moments in this episode, among which I include Claire in the 60s looking back, is that they did kind of highlight the lack thereof earlier in the season (or at least lack relative to my preference!). Looking forward to re-watching this season to see how I feel after a second viewing.

[Petunia846]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Oh, I don't have a problem with any of Bree's actions or what she says. Crazy mom is in her face yelling about stones and screaming "you're just like him!!! We made sweet love on a mountaintop and we made you!! Love this random dude who you just found out about five seconds ago!!!" I do feel sympathy for her. It was the actress who didn't quite gel for me.

Fair enough. What I was trying to get at was that, for me, anytime a line felt a little weak or off I just chalked it up to the character herself being young and in a strange new place (literally and figuratively). I don't know. I'm not an acting expert.

[toolazy]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

 

Can you explain please? Thanks in advance. 

 

40 minutes ago, Keeta said:

I believe she said something along the lines of "like I promised him I would".

IIRC, DiA starts with Claire ringing Roger's doorbell.

Bingo.  The first thing that actually happens in DiA is Claire & Brianna showing up on Roger's doorstep.  Knowing that readers are expecting that, they switched it up by showing the doorbell on the TV the kids were watching.  Upon seeing that, a reader immediately wonders how Roger will hook up with C&B, only to then see Claire in a crowd shot of the people at the Reverend's funeral.  I loved it so much.