S11.E22: We Happy Few

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Sam and Dean face their biggest challenge yet; Rowena makes her move.

[catrox14]

Edited May 18, 2016 by catrox14

[Binns]

Ahhhh new Jensen gif of adorableness

[AwesomO4000]

To quote Donatello...

"What happened?!?"

And as for the preview of next week...

"What?!?"

(I'll take the rest to the Spoiler thread just in case.)

[Binns]

That was sort of a disjointed mess to me. I didn't love it. I can't believe Dean wouldn't have put up a HELL of a lot more of a fight in terms of Sam taking the MOC. I hate that they treated Lucifer like some sort of ally, seemingly not remembering that he tortured Sam not to mention his many many other crimes. Cas finally showing up for a hot second (though I did like the cgi when Amara killed? Lucifer- almost a composite of Mark P. and Misha) was anticlimactic. I just didn't buy into their plan and I didn't love that the boys were reduced to refereeing and parenting God and Lucifer. Dean commanding the troops? Not so much. Eh. 

[Ferniesfreckles]

Didnt realize Lucifer was such a petulant brat, sheesh. 

Well, THAT happened. Chuck and Lucifer should not have hesitated. 

I did like how everybody came together in the end and did their part. Poor coven. 

I always knew Dean was 'da bomb but this is taking it to ridiculous extremes!!

[catrox14]

Rant warning. Much swearing ahead.

OH THE FUCKERY in this episode.

HAHAHAHA. Screw you, show. I KNEW they were going to put that damn Mark on Sam's arm. I don't care if it was only on his arm for 30 seconds. Dean's ONE fucking SL that was all his, they had to hand it to Sam. Wow. I KNEW when Jared talked about it, it was going to be his. And they have Dean lampshade his being sidelined. Wow. Fuck off.

Oh and let's see. Dean is a lying liar who lies to Sam about apologies. Fuck off

Oh and Dean is too tainted to have the Mark now? Fuck off. 

Oh and Dean really didn't ever WANT to kill Amara. Not that she was totally fucking over his mind. Fuck off.

Also, it's REALLY weird that neither Jensen nor Jared did the "stayed tuned for scenes from the season finale of SPN". That's bizarre.

The fuckery was astounding.

[bethy]

Oh my gosh. So. Much. Talking.

Family therapy for Chuck and Lucifer? Who cares? 

Angels, demons, witches being talked into helping? Bor. Ing.

It's Sam going to take on the Mark because Dean can't? I don't even know because I started fast-forwarding. I can't hear that conversation between Sam and Dean one more time. 

Did Sam forget his terror and the torture Lucifer inflicted on him? Because this week he's all, "Yeah, God; Lucifer had been wronged so you need to apologize." What? 

And I had no idea what point was being made with that conversation about Dean not being able to kill Amara and wanting Chuck to do it.

Meh.

[Binns]

Seriously. They've as much as said Sam was brutalized by Lucifer, tortured/raped/killed, and he's just cool with him being in his room, rocking out, no big. Even THIS SEASON we saw how terrified Sam was of Lucifer when he was back in the cage. You don't just turn that off!  He's the same Lucifer! GAH. 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, bethy said:

And I had no idea what point was being made with that conversation about Dean not being able to kill Amara and wanting Chuck to do it

That made no sense to me whatsoever.

[MysteryGuest]

There really was a lot I didn't like about this episode.  It had a few moments, but not many.  It was very disjointed, and the therapy sessions were annoying.  I did not like how Dean was made to look like an ass for his attraction to Amara when this is supposedly something he has absolutely no control over.  That just pissed me off.

We knew that Sam was getting the Mark, but thankfully it only lasted for a nanosecond.  Just long enough to annoy the hell out of me.  

This was quite the ineffectual group of allies.  And all of the other witches were killed except for Rowena?  How did that work?  What exactly did Crowley do?  And for that matter, what did Dean get to do other than keep saying "Amara, no!"?  

I don't pay attention to who writes what episodes, but this one was badly written, IMO.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Binns said:

Seriously. They've as much as said Sam was brutalized by Lucifer, tortured/raped/killed, and he's just cool with him being in his room, rocking out, no big. Even THIS SEASON we saw how terrified Sam was of Lucifer when he was back in the cage. You don't just turn that off!  He's the same Lucifer! GAH. 

Yeah, that was really stupid. I'm assuming he felt more able to deal with Lucifer because he knew he was going to have the Mark or something??? Or that we are supposed to see Sam as the Bravest Brave Who Ever Braved for facing his tormentor for the good of mankind? That's all I got. 

[bethy]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

That made no sense to me whatsoever.

Right? I seriously could not figure out the connections between the sentences they were stringing together.

[Binns]

5 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

There really was a lot I didn't like about this episode.  It had a few moments, but not many.  It was very disjointed, and the therapy sessions were annoying.  I did not like how Dean was made to look like an ass for his attraction to Amara when this is supposedly something he has absolutely no control over.  That just pissed me off.

We knew that Sam was getting the Mark, but thankfully it only lasted for a nanosecond.  Just long enough to annoy the hell out of me.  

This was quite the ineffectual group of allies.  And all of the other witches were killed except for Rowena?  How did that work?  What exactly did Crowley do?  And for that matter, what did Dean get to do other than keep saying "Amara, no!"?  

I don't pay attention to who writes what episodes, but this one was badly written, IMO.

It was written by John Badham. I don't have a firm grasp on which writers I do and don't like (other than knowing I don't usually like when Singer's wife writes, can't remember her name, Buck something). 

[catrox14]

Just now, Binns said:

It was written by John Badham. I don't have a firm grasp on which writers I do and don't like (other than knowing I don't usually like when Singer's wife writes, can't remember her name, Buck something). 

It was written by Robert Berens and directed by John Badham.

[Pete Martell]

16 minutes ago, Ferniesfreckles said:

Didnt realize Lucifer was such a petulant brat, sheesh. 

Lucifer was a pissy baby throughout his entire season 5 arc. On a show with so many continuity issues, they somehow got this right...

[Binns]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It was written by Robert Berens and directed by John Badham.

Woops, my mistake. 

[KirkB]

I kind of liked the fact that the demons managed to do more damage to Amara than the coven or the angels. 

[Wynne88]

Sam and Dean didn't seem to be particularly necessary to this episode which is a shame this close to the end of the season.  I agree that it makes no sense that Sam is all hunky-dory with Lucifer.  I guess the fact he looks like Cas instead of Mark P might help a little, but still.  I have no clue what Dean's actual position was in regards to Amara's potential survival/death.  It made no sense.  And the whole business of taking the mark off Amara and putting it onto Sam, only to have him lose it 30 seconds later was a waste of time.

I wish they wouldn't do big scenes with people dangling in the air (Amara and God) - it's never convincing and looked stupid to have Amara swatting helplessly at the smoke.  I thought that smoke belonged to the darkness anyway; how come it attacked her?  

I really disliked it that apparently Sam and God actually got to have a little chat - off screen.  And finally I hated the music at the end.  Big dramatic stuff like we almost never hear on this show (and thank goodness for it).  I think Robbie set the bar so high with episode 20 that there's no way to go but down.  Just my opinion though.

[MysteryGuest]

Well, whoever wrote it, they missed the mark in my book.  I enjoyed the confrontation between Amara and God, and found myself actually feeling sorry for Amara.  I thought that was Emily Swallow's best scene of the season.  Other than that, the episode was boring.

God is whiny and annoying.  Lucifer is whiny and annoying.  Crowley is whiney and annoying.  Even seeing Cas for those brief moments didn't do anything for me because I really am bored to tears by the angels (and the demons).  There just wasn't much to like.

[KirkB]

4 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

I wish they wouldn't do big scenes with people dangling in the air (Amara and God) - it's never convincing and looked stupid to have Amara swatting helplessly at the smoke.  I thought that smoke belonged to the darkness anyway; how come it attacked her?  

That wasn't Amara as the darkness smoke, that was demons out of their host bodies smoke.

[redfish]

Quote

Didnt realize Lucifer was such a petulant brat, sheesh.

More like a sullen teenager, including locking himself in a room and blasting the music.

Kind of felt sorry for the prophet Donatello. That was a crappy way to go.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, whoever wrote it, they missed the mark in my book.  I enjoyed the confrontation between Amara and God, and found myself actually feeling sorry for Amara.  I thought that was Emily Swallow's best scene of the season.  Other than that, the episode was boring.

God is whiny and annoying.  Lucifer is whiny and annoying.  Crowley is whiney and annoying.  Even seeing Cas for those brief moments didn't do anything for me because I really am bored to tears by the angels (and the demons).  There just wasn't much to like.

I wasn't even sure that was actually Cas. I thought it was Lucifer pretending to be Cas.

I have to say for a Robbie Berens episode, this sucked.

[Binns]

I liked a couple of things. I thought Emily Swallow did a good job tonight and I've pretty much hated everything else she's done. I liked that Lucifer is dead (I'm assuming) and that Cas is all right (again, assuming). I liked Clea (RIP). 

[Wynne88]

Quote

That wasn't Amara as the darkness smoke, that was demons out of their host bodies smoke.

Thanks.  I was confused. Still sort of am.  Where did Crowley go after he smoked out?

[MysteryGuest]

I'm really pissed that this episode was so unsatisfying, but I guess I'm not totally surprised.  We've been saying all season that the writers had bitten off more than they could chew with the "God's sister" storyline, and I think that was evident tonight.  

There was a moment when Amara first entered the bunker where I thought for sure she was going to destroy it and I was freaking out.  I'm at least glad they didn't go there.

[Binns]

Oh, I also liked when Rowena called Sam "Giant" and "Big and Tall" with that hilarious tone. I kinda love Rowena. In small doses. 

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm really pissed that this episode was so unsatisfying, but I guess I'm not totally surprised.  We've been saying all season that the writers had bitten off more than they could chew with the "God's sister" storyline, and I think that was evident tonight.  

There was a moment when Amara first entered the bunker where I thought for sure she was going to destroy it and I was freaking out.  I'm at least glad they didn't go there.

Oh' that reminds me! Did she destroy the warding? That's what it looked like to me. So much for the safest place in the world (except for when the story dictates it not be safe, lol). 

[AwesomO4000]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

HAHAHAHA. Screw you, show. I KNEW they were going to put that damn Mark on Sam's arm. I don't care if it was only on his arm for 30 seconds. Dean's ONE fucking SL that was all his, they had to hand it to Sam. Wow. I KNEW when Jared talked about it, it was going to be his. And they have Dean lampshade his being sidelined. Wow. Fuck off.

Oh and Dean is too tainted to have the Mark now? Fuck off. 

I may be wrong, but did Chod say Dean was tainted because he'd previously had the mark?*** If so, the only reason they gave it to Sam for 30 seconds was to make sure that he's not going to be an option again either when the endfight comes. Because otherwise, why even have that in there? Was that the token Sam was going to save the world, but it didn't work, so it's okay now if Dean does it instead, because it's the thought that counts, right?

And I think that Dean has had other storylines that were only his. He became a demon, for example. And a Knight of Hell. He was Death. And a vampire. Sam has the Azazel's kid storyline, but apparently now that Castiel is Lucifer's vessel, and Sam did his part by going back into the cage so Lucifer could possess Castiel, they seem to have forgotten that he was even Lucifer's vessel and then spent 180+ years with him. At least based on Sam's apparent non-reaction to Lucifer sharing the bunker with them. *sigh*

*** That's the only thing that makes sense, since Sam was the vessel for Lucifer and was tainted by demon blood.

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah, that was really stupid. I'm assuming he felt more able to deal with Lucifer because he knew he was going to have the Mark or something??? Or that we are supposed to see Sam as the Bravest Brave Who Ever Braved for facing his tormentor for the good of mankind? That's all I got. 

The only thing I can think of is for some reason in the second half of the season, Sam doesn't get to have emotional scenes? I don't get it either. Sam should not be okay  with Lucifer. At all. Unless he feels less worried because God is there?

24 minutes ago, bethy said:

 Did Sam forget his terror and the torture Lucifer inflicted on him? Because this week he's all, "Yeah, God; Lucifer had been wronged so you need to apologize." What?

Stockholm Syndrome? Sam did have to spend 180 + years with Lucifer being tortured and listening to him whine - oh wait those are pretty much the same things. ; ) . Maybe some of it finally stuck. (You know like Jean-Luc Picard with the lights. "There are four lights!" Even though he admitted in the end he did actually think he saw 5).

10 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

I really disliked it that apparently Sam and God actually got to have a little chat - off screen.

Of course it happened offscreen. *sigh*

[Goldmoon]

The J's were REALLY bad actors in their counseling scenes. I didn't think Jensen could act badly but there it was.

[7kstar]

18 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

 I enjoyed the confrontation between Amara and God, and found myself actually feeling sorry for Amara.  I thought that was Emily Swallow's best scene of the season.  Other than that, the episode was boring.

IA with this being one of her best scenes.  I think her looking at Dean's and his mom's picture was a nice touch. 

I almost wonder if God knew it would fail but had to let the kids have their way  to prove his point.  Not a spoiler just thinking out loud.  Just so many things didn't feel true to form.  I'm glad did make sure Lucifer couldn't harm the boys but disappointed "with can't bring Gabriel back"...boo hoo speech.

May have done one thing that is necessary, set the bar so low that next week's ep will actually be enjoyable?  Unless that try to make it some big joke.

[KirkB]

17 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

Thanks.  I was confused. Still sort of am.  Where did Crowley go after he smoked out?

That I can't answer. The only person we saw get up after the big smackdown was Rowena. So either Amara destroyed Crowley along with all the other demons or else Rowena actually died and Crowley was forced to jump into her body because his was destroyed?

[ZennyKenny]

Whoa. I gotta say, for about 3 minutes there I was legitimately shocked. I did not think that the writers had the guts to kill off God! But then the commercial break ended and of course he's not dead, only "dying".

Well, a lot of problems have already been addressed, so I'm glad I'm not alone in wondering how Sam can be so nonchalant with Lucifer, or how Dean's inability to stab Amara with a dinky knife means that he didn't WANT to kill her. Does that mean that Lucifer, the angels, Metatron and Rowena didn't really WANT to kill her, either, since they also failed?

Other thoughts:

- I honestly preferred the dialogue parts to the action parts. I can't even pinpoint why, but the whole Amara battle seemed so cheesy. I guess it was the taking turns. Specifically when the demons had her up in the air and she was thrashing around saying "no!", I literally rolled my eyes.

- I also find it annoying that this season is increasingly becoming Lucifer, God and Amara saying "step aside, Winchesters; this is our show now."

- I think I could actually feel sympathy for Amara getting treated so badly by God if it was a different actress. I don't know what it is; she just does nothing for me.

- Also, what was the point of them making such a big deal of Rowena staring up at the sun at the end? I kept waiting for them to reveal what she was looking at but then the show just ended.

- I think my main problem boils down to the fact that they keep trying to raise the stakes higher and higher, but it doesn't work because we know the Winchesters are going to survive. The Universe is not going to end. The tension worked in earlier seasons when they were saving people and hunting things, because it wasn't always a sure-thing that the people they were trying to protect would survive. But here? Come on, am I really expected to be legitimately concerned that Dean is going to end up with Amara while she destroys all of creation?

[catrox14]

37 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I may be wrong, but did Chod say Dean was tainted because he'd previously had the mark?*** If so, the only reason they gave it to Sam for 30 seconds was to make sure that he's not going to be an option again either when the endfight comes. Because otherwise, why even have that in there? Was that the token Sam was going to save the world, but it didn't work, so it's okay now if Dean does it instead, because it's the thought that counts, right?

 

I should have been more specific and say "mytharc" not SL. And it's not even really about Sam specifically.

It's just one more time that Dean's mytharc or the critical part of his mytharc was either partially or wholly handed to another character and/or  truncated early for ...reasons.  I'm frustrated with the writers making this choice. I don't care if Sam has a mytharc or has something to do in the end. Fine. But why have it be something as specific as the Mark of Cain which Sam was so adamant to get off Dean in the first place? Of course, I suppose they should have just given the Mark to Sam since it came from Lucifer in the first place.  LOL Sigh I'll just go hang out in the bitterness thread because I'm pretty pissed off right now.

Dean was never shown to be a Knight of Hell. I WISH we had seen that. Dean was a vampire against his will for one episode. Dean was Death for a day.  Those aren't mytharcs. Dean should have become Death after killing him.

Look this isn't Sam vs Dean wank. It's Dean vs the writers LOL

Edited May 19, 2016 by catrox14

[7kstar]

9 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

Also, what was the point of them making such a big deal of Rowena staring up at the sun at the end? I kept waiting for them to reveal what she was looking at but then the show just ended.

Hmmm

Spoiler

Could it have to do with God is dying and she knows how to reverse time with a spell?  Why do I think God figured this plan would backfire or fail?

Somehow I think the moment with God and Dean about him being the fireball is a big clue...now it could be it is so obvious, so they drop it.  But I wish the show's action could have showcased a stronger ep.  Not sure I hate it, but not in love with it.

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, Goldmoon said:

The J's were REALLY bad actors in their counseling scenes. I didn't think Jensen could act badly but there it was.

Honestly, I almost felt like Jensen was acting bad on purpose as some passive aggressive silent protest over the stupidity of Dean having to say he never means his apologies. LOL

[HunterHunted]

This whole God's sister storyline is a bust for me. I also don't think Emily Swallow is a strong enough actress to elevate this very mediocre story and character. Everytime I see her on camera, I think she looks more and more hideous. And I know she's not, but I HATE Amara so much. She's so whiny and one note. And her whole plan is to what?!? 1.kill God. 2. destroy the universe. And 3.profit?!? No that can't be right. And 3. Have fun playing in an empty universe alone? How is this better than the cage she was locked away in.

[catrox14]

Chuck is full of shit. Or Rob Benedict can't play sincere or he was playing Chuck as insincere in his "apology" to Lucifer. There was something about him that I just did not believe his "I was so sad that my favorite was corrupted by mistake". Nah, that was just to get Lucifer to play ball.

So like what does that say about Dean? That Dean was going to be corrupted because he was already a POS like Lucifer? Like I legit don't get the writing in this episode AT ALL

[companionenvy]

I liked parts of the episode, but think it was mostly a mess. For me, there were two main problems:

1. The tone. SPN has always been a show that could do both very silly and very serious. I think they mostly got the balance right in the last two weeks; Chuck as God was certainly being played for some laughs, but ultimately, there was also some gravitas to him. Here, while I actually thought the therapy scene was pretty hilarious on its own terms, it doesn't work if you're then going to sell me on high apocalyptic drama without any intervening character moments of any weight. In addition, even at its best I think the show overplayed the whole "the angelic war is really just a family squabble that exactly parallels that of the Winchesters" thing. The dynamic between God and sulky teen Lucifer almost rises to the level of parody.

2. Lack of substantive attention to character relationships. Yes, the show has done scenarios in which one Winchester must cope with the possibility of losing the other any number of times. But the way to stop doing that plot to death is to stop creating scenarios in which one Winchester (but not the other) must take on some deadly danger, not by having Sam tell Dean he's taking on the Mark have Dean respond with about as much passion as if Sam had offered to do his chores for a month. As others have said, Sam needed to have at least one scene in which he discusses his past with Lucifer. I'll buy that Sam can cope with Lucifer's presence without falling apart, especially since Lucifer is in Cas's body.. But it is frankly insulting for everyone involved to treat Lucifer as if he's a (forgive me) wayward son, totally ignoring the fact that he also spent a good century or so torturing and raping Sam just for funsies. Some of his other crimes might be written off as a misguided attempt to achieve some greater good, however warped. What he did to Sam, however, was senselessly brutal, and Sam, of all people, shouldn't forget that. As for Dean, a quick "what about Cas" isn't enough to make up for no one mentioning him until more than halfway through the episode. If Lucifer was going to let Cas out to talk to the angels, Sam and Dean should have insisted on his allowing them to talk to him first. 

As for catrox's point that Dean is again being marginalized -- I don't see it. What I see is yet another Sam-centric plan not working, leading up to what appears to be another save by Dean. Outside of season 5, Sam never gets the big saves. The trials was a Sam arc, for instance, but Dean convinces him not to go through with it anyway, so it is a moot point. Worse, he, far more than Dean, tends to be the cause of major crises: he started the apocalypse in Season 4, and let out the Darkness last year. When Dean makes a big mistake (letting Gadreel possess Sam, taking the Mark), it tends to be a quick decision with comparatively minor consequences. When Sam does it, it happens after multiple people -- including angels, prophets, seers, and dead father figures -- have warned him against it, which makes him look really bad. I'm strictly bi-bro, and think Dean is the more interesting character, but I wish Sam (and Cas, for that matter) had a better win-loss record. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

As for catrox's point that Dean is again being marginalized -- I don't see it. What I see is yet another Sam-centric plan not working, leading up to what appears to be another save by Dean. Outside of season 5, Sam never gets the big saves. The trials was a Sam arc, for instance, but Dean convinces him not to go through with it anyway, so it is a moot point.

I'm not going to bog down the thread with my response on Dean's mytharcs being blown up for another character. I'll take it to the All seasons or bitterness thread but basically Sam's mytharcs have never been passed to another character.

But here, yes Dean was effectively marginalized once the option for the Mark was on the table again, Dean said" okay I'll do it. I did it before "but suddenly he's tainted?  It can't just be because Dean had it before because Cain either never lost the Mark or it was reactivated by the Blade so how could Cain have been able to use it again and Dean can't now? There is no logic.

IMO Sam didn't keep the Mark because Amara's started killing God and disrupted it. God didn't remove it from her or Sam that I could tell. It seems to me the intention was for Sam to have it but Amara fought it off. And yes her removing it means Sam can't take it again, (never mind Cain still having it or whatever) ?

Question: Since Sam has now been connected to the Darkness...shouldn't he be bound to her like Dean is? (I'm calling it now that Sam ends up taking out Amara because they were connected for 30 seconds. Or will Sam stop Dean from killing her? I'm being snarky about that) 

[SueB]

What a riot.  This was everything AND the kitchen sink.  As I watched it, it felt like Berens took ALL THE THEORIES and put them into one episode just to get them out of the way.  I kept thinking of the Kim Manner's guidance -- give them what they want but not in the way they expect.  I kept thinking this episode was targeted at some points of view that generally piss people off.  Let me see if I can make a coherent list & what purpose I think it served:

1) Band of Brothers - they even SAID those words.  One of the popular theories is that they would have to enlist the aid of all of God's creations to make a stand.  And they did.  But there's a cheese-factor there.  Like "this is the obvious choice, so obviously it's not going to work." And they threw in a TON of "explainers" - why he couldn't get the archangels back quickly,  what Rowena's escape plan was, that the demons didn't respect Crowley, etc...  And they picked the perfect representatives from Team Free Will to approach the allies - Dean goes to Crowley, Sam goes to Rowena ('giant!'), Cas goes to the Angels. 

2) God vs Lucifer - another "expected" confrontation. And although they actually DID "open up a vein", the tone was very very light compared to the topic.  Not hi-jinx comedy but bits like the loud music (in Sam's room!), shoving the boys literally in the gallery area (as they were the peanut gallery).  Again, I felt like the points that were hit were ones people thought they would -- God's sorrow over Lucifer being affected by the Mark, God pointing out that Lucifer was already side-eyeing humanity before he gave him the Mark, Lucifer being a brat and just wanting attention (I kept hearing Gabriel's voice in my head).

3) Sam takes on the Mark - I laughed out loud when that happened. Not because it was funny but because it was precisely what a few have been DREADING all year.  It was like they had been watching our "Spoilers with Speculation" thread and wanted to screw with the posters. 

4) Amara confronts God for the yellow crayon speech and it... fails! Again, a heavily predicted/speculated confrontation.  And the arguments were all ones people had suggested: ying/yang, humanity is important, Amara can't die, etc. Pretty much every single argument made by God during the course of the episode was one someone had suggested as God's plan.

In short - this episode was the extravaganza confrontation with special effects and big bold actions.  And of course it didn't work.  It was NEVER going to work.  In fact, I don't think God expected it to work.  Look, I could be wrong, but this episode was like a "paint by numbers" of fan theories.  And the real finale is going to be next week -- and it's going to HURT.  This episode had huge events and yet it didn't actually "hurt".  Nothing was given time to have the appropriate gravitas. 

Things that DID feel "real":
- Dean can't kill Amara. And he instinctually doesn't want her hurt.
- Amara got the raw end of the stick.  I think God is TRULY sorry for what he did to her. 
- Amara's pain.  She's more than a mountain of pissed off, she wanted to die rather than be caged ALONE again. And her brother tricked her again.  That was heartbreaking to watch.

Little bits that were very entertaining in this episode:
- I liked the fellow witch Rowena visited and I liked the "go back in history" concept.  Not a bad idea Rowena.
- I liked the arguments each of the members of Team Free Will posited to their recruits.
- I liked "Dad" making pancakes.

In summary; this was a subversive episode.  It took all the existing theories of how things were going to play out and just DID THEM.  As if to say "there, we've tried it your way..... what do you think?" But I don't feel any animosity from the writers with this.  I feel like they thought they HAD to play out the most popular theories of how these characters/events would play out just so people wouldn't wonder "what if....".  Now you know... they've done "fill in the blank."  So MUCH canon/fanon was covered in this episode, I think we'll be referring to it in the future.

This feels like the calm before the storm.  And that's saying something. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

- Dean can't kill Amara. And he instinctually doesn't want her hurt.

It's not instinctual though. It's compelled by Amara via the Mark. That is what we have been told and shown ALL season. This is not Dean's choice. He can't kill her because she told him he can't kill her that they will always help each other.

Dean TOLD Sam in Love Hurts that he was screwed. That he had tried to kill her twice and couldn't. So why the hell was Sam acting at all surprised or in a snit about that? Come on Robert Berens and showrunners. This was already covered by Dean!

After an entire season of Dean being manipulated, mind invaded, put under her thrall, kissed against his will, admitting to Sam that he didn't think he could kill her, but telling Sam that it's not love or desire, he sits there being questioned by God that maybe he really didn't WANT to kill her.

Man, this is infuriating.

[SueB]

Live tweet during the episode from the writer:

Quote

Bobo Berens ‏@robertberens 2h2 hours ago

Pitched this past act as an Oceans 11-style "getting the heist crew together" sequence w Rowena, Crowley, and the Angels. #Supernatural

makes sense.  Very caper-like.

 

ETA: Just saw a Sam/Rowena gif.  Someone please tell me why am I shipping this??  It's just WRONG... but so RIGHT.

Edited May 19, 2016 by SueB

[ZennyKenny]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Dean should have become Death after killing him.

Yes! I was so hoping for that to happen; it would have been in line with the whole "natural order of things". You killed death, therefore you need to replace him. Then again I would have been happy seeing ANY real consequence to killing Death. (Billie taking Dean to the Empty doesn't count; if they do that in the season finale, he'll be back in the first 5 minutes of the new season and it won't mean anything)

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, SueB said:

Live tweet during the episode from the writer:

makes sense.  Very caper-like.

And tonally it was all wrong for the penultimate episode. Look at all the other seasons

s1-Salvation - Meg comes back and it sets up the events in the finale.
s2 All Hell Breaks Loose pt1 - Sam goes missing and dies.
s3 Time is on My Side - Bela dies, Dean learns about Lilith
s4- When the Levee Breaks- Dean and Sam fight, Sam goes off with Ruby
s5 - Two Minutes To Midnight- Death is introduced sets up the finale
s6 - Let it Bleed - Ben and Lisa are kidnapped. Dean saves them and Cas wipes their memories
s7 - There Will Be Blood - Alpha Vamp prepping for final battle(as non-sensical as this)
s8 - Clip Show- Crowley kills Sarah, the wendigo kid, tries to kill Jody and they learn about the blood cure
s9 - Stairway to Heaven- Dean goes off the rails, tries to kill Gadreel,
s10 - The Prisoner- Dean slaughters the Stynes for killing Charlie and he tries to kill Cas. 

The common thing. At least one really good heavy scene and emotional depth. This episode was  like it was checking off boxes . There was no heart in this episode and I do NOT expect that from a penultimate SPN episode. The only emotion I felt was anger about Dean LOL, befuddlement that Sam was siding with Lucifer on ANYTHING, and I got teary and sad when we finally saw Cas again.

I agree with the commenter who said that Sam and Dean didn't even need to be in the episode and that is NOT a thing that should happen in the penultimate episode of the season. Not for this show. 

Whoooo boy , I'm salty!

Edited May 19, 2016 by catrox14

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, SueB said:

Live tweet during the episode from the writer:

makes sense.  Very caper-like.

 

ETA: Just saw a Sam/Rowena gif.  Someone please tell me why am I shipping this??  It's just WRONG... but so RIGHT.

I've been expecting a Rowena-Sam hookup for 2 seasons.  Rowena is right in Sam's wheelhouse when you think about it. She's evil, duplicitous, acts monstrously and is very short. Amelia and Jessica were the odd birds IMO.

[AwesomO4000]

What about Sarah? And Madison was a werewolf, but she wasn't evil.

Besides Sam may have a slight bad girl kink, but Rowena tried to kill Dean. I don't think Sam from the past two seasons would look past that to hook-up. At least with Bella, she mostly tried to kill him (Sam), but trying to kill Dean is another story.

I would be sorely disappointed in Sam if he hooked up with Rowena... unless... I guess I could make an exception for hate sex. But that's about it. And I would expect Sam to be disappointed with himself in the morning.

Personally I'd like to see him get together with Jodi or Eileen (From "Into the Mystic.")

[catrox14]

I don't really count Sarah. She was flirtation and a one minute makeout IIRC. She was sweet, but AFAIK they never hooked up. He had the one office stand with that Doctor and the backseat boink with the waitress. Madison was always going to turn.

I'm calling it now, if Rowena survives the finale and Dean gets blasted to wherever, Sam and Rowena will be bumping uglies and they will form the not quite mega-coven and plot to kill Crowley. LOL (I'm only half kidding)

[Jediknight]

Amara killed the Mega Coven?  I don't care if they didn't call themselves that, Rowena was in charge of them, and it was a coven, it's the Mega Coven.  Killing the Mega Coven is not cool Amara, not cool at all.

I have a hard believing that Chuck would have had to spell it out in detail to Dean why they can't kill Amara.  He told him once, but for some reason Dean didn't understand, and needed it explained?  Come on guys, neither Winchester would need Chuck to explain it after he said "Yin and yang".

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jediknight

[ae2]

The best part of this episode was seeing some demon effects we haven't seen in a long time. The brewing storm clouds. The swarming black smoke. I never even liked the black smoke concept, but the nostalgia factor hit hard.

[lynnea6]

Wow, I hated this episode. Hated it. It's always annoyed me that the show referred to the relationship between God and the angels with human familial terms - father, brother, sister. This episode went way beyond where it's gone before and treated them just like humans - the devil as a fucking teenager for pete's sake - with Dean and Sam mediating. It just felt like they cheapened everything with these beings from prior seasons. I did appreciate that the attempt to corral Amara didn't work.