S11.E22: We Happy Few

[rue721]

While I agree that this episode was horrible for all the reasons mentioned...I still actually enjoyed it. It made no sense and was relentlessly shallow and silly, but eh. It made for a good background while I worked out. So I guess there's that.

I liked Rowena and pretty much everything associated with Rowena -- her interactions with Sam and with Crowley, her coven, even the individual witches in the coven. She also seemed to be having some kind of spiritual awakening, which was weird but interesting.

I HALF liked the caper. I liked that Rowena and Crowley were part of it, and even the dumb joke of Crowley trying to get Rowena/witches to be the vanguard in the fight. But I HATED that Lucifer was part of it. HATED.

He's disgusting. And I really didn't need to see the idiocy of him locking himself in a bedroom and blasting music and I REALLY didn't need to see Chuck apologize to him, let alone to see multiple scenes devoted to the Lucifer-needs-an-apology storyline.

First of all, Lucifer is probably the LEAST deserving of an apology out of literally everyone in that group. He has had the cushiest life out of all of them tbh. So he needs to STFU. Also, did he ever apologize to Sam? Second of all, it's disturbing, not funny, to watch a grown man acting like a preteen. If they wanted him to "be" a preteen, then put him in a preteen vessel. Why drag out that joke through the whole damn episode when it wasn't even a funny premise? Third, this is supposed to be LUCIFER. I even think that the idea of Lucifer as a tantrum-ing child COULD be disturbing and work in a way...but not like this. And I don't even think they were going for anything. I think they just thought that showing Lucifer have tantrums would be funny.

The other thing that I didn't like about the "caper" idea was that they had a seriously awful plan. The taking turns thing was the worst. WHY. Why not have everybody just go full throttle or at least go in PAIRS ffs. Take a buddy. And why would you have the strongest go last, like you're having Amara work up to the "boss level" in a video game? Have they never heard of the concept of "starters"? It was confusingly bad. I also felt terrible for the witches in that coven. I liked Cleo.

And honestly, this show used to be pretty good at having the guys throw together plans on the fly and keep useful contingencies in place -- it used to be great at just representing the characters as smart and prepared in general. Remember when Gordon was after Sam, and Sam and Dean had to put all kinds of plans and skills into action to save each other from him? (Found it:  2.10 Hunted). That was way smarter and way more fun to watch than this. And that wasn't even an especially good episode! Bah.

But all that said, I actually did enjoy it while I was watching it. Just as something diverting, and sometimes funny.

On 5/18/2016 at 10:54 PM, Binns said:

Oh, I also liked when Rowena called Sam "Giant" and "Big and Tall" with that hilarious tone.

I loved that, too. But Rowena has pretty much entirely won me over tbh.

On 5/18/2016 at 11:43 PM, catrox14 said:

Honestly, I almost felt like Jensen was acting bad on purpose as some passive aggressive silent protest over the stupidity of Dean having to say he never means his apologies. LOL

I am maybe the only person, but I thought that the bit about apologies being lies was actually pretty funny. It was the last part when Dean reflexively said sorry to Sam and then was like, "see, lie!" that sold it.

I didn't take it as anything deep, though. Just goofiness for the sake of a quick laugh.

On 5/19/2016 at 2:29 AM, SueB said:

ETA: Just saw a Sam/Rowena gif.  Someone please tell me why am I shipping this??  It's just WRONG... but so RIGHT.

My only ship on this show. Yes, it's a crack!ship, I don't need to actually see it onscreen...but literally every time I see Rowena and Sam together in a scene, I'm like hmmmmmmm I can 100% see them hooking up. Lots of chemistry.

And yeah, I do actually think that she's his type. He's too decent to be her type, though, unfortunately. *tear*

On 5/19/2016 at 9:39 AM, Binns said:

Tone deaf. Perfect way to describe it. I was immediately taken out of the episode and couldn't get back into it. It just makes NO SENSE that Sam would be in any way that ok with Lucifer being near him. I mean...I don't know about the timeline but it isn't that long ago that Sam was back in the cage near catatonic with fear. COME ON. 

Yeah, this was actually the only part of the episode I just COULDN'T go with.

What really killed me is that they made a big point about how Crowley really didn't want to be around Lucifer and resented what Lucifer had done to him and was still dealing with the effects of it. But then there's Sam, who went through way, way worse, and was in way, way worse shape previously because of it, and....he's cool?

I dunno, it just made me feel awful for Sam -- and angry at all the other characters, who kept throwing him and Lucifer together like that was no big deal!

On 5/19/2016 at 3:13 PM, Wynne88 said:

I try to imagine Mark Pellegrino in the scene where Lucifer has locked himself in the bedroom and is sulkily blaring music and I just can't.  His Lucifer was lethal and calculating and relentless.  Locking himself in a bedroom because his Dad won't apologize?  Nah.  What they did to that character to service the storyline is sad.

Yeah, Lucifer blows chunks now. And that insult is incredibly immature on purpose.

Honestly, I didn't want him dirtying up the bunker. I don't really mind the idea that Dean can't take on the Mark again, but talking about how "tainted" he is when Lucifer is standing right there with slime practically dripping off of him...*shudder.*

The show initially did a good job of making Lucifer horrible and scary -- why try SO HARD to back-walk that now?!

On 5/19/2016 at 3:46 PM, ZennyKenny said:

I find that, while watching the episodes, my mind tries to change the dialogue or find ideal dialogue before it happens.

Ex: I completely don't understand the whole "sometimes apologies are lies, and that's ok" bit. Like, what? 1. That's not even true, and 2. Dean saying that he lies to Sam all the time is the most nonsensical sentence I've ever heard come out of his mouth.

What the advice they SHOULD have given Chuck is that things can be multi-faceted. You can maintain that what you did to Lucifer was for the good of humanity, but also admit that you hated doing it and are genuinely sorry. And you're not lying when you say that.

Yeah, they just went for the cheap joke. I don't think it was even meant to mean anything. And I didn't take it to mean anything, honestly. Just had the laugh and moved on.

I think your way is better, but I also think that the tone in this episode was too superficial and "zany" for ANY scene to have that amount of depth. NONE of the scenes had any depth. The episode in general had absolutely NO depth. it was aggressively shallow.

On 5/19/2016 at 10:58 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Does anyone remember a little show about two brothers who traveled around the country in a muscle car while hunting things and saving people? I swear I've seen this show and it was called....Supernatural? But when I search for Supernatural, all I'm finding is a show about two guys who are some sort of therapists to God and other supernatural things. It's really weird, though, I swear it's the same actors, but it can't be the same show, can it?

OOOOOooooh yeah, I liked that show! Sometimes I think I still catch glimpses of it, though? Albeit not today.

On 5/20/2016 at 10:56 AM, Hana Chan said:

This episode encapsulates just why I've been so uninvested with the whole Darkness storyline this season. The Darkness, for all her apparent power, is an utter bore as a villain. The actress lacks the ability the translate the kind of gravitas that I would want in a primordial force and the end result is that I just can't take her seriously. Does she have a legitimate grievance against her brother? Sure, but I can't find myself feeling sympathy for a force of destruction just because they decided to envision her having breasts. Someone wants to wipe out all of existence? Sorry, but female embodiment or not, she's got to be taken out with extreme prejudice.

I just can't get het up about The Darknessssssss, regardless that she's trying to destroy existence or whatever. That's honestly too existential for me. Can't wrap my head around it well enough to take it as a serious threat. I have no idea what "no existence" actually even means.

Also, I'm hung up on my confusion regarding the imprisonment thing. While I guess theoretically she does have a legitimate grievance, I also feel like...God was doing all this magnificent stuff like creating existence etc etc etc and meanwhile Amara just sat helpless in her cage? It's hard for me to buy that she's as powerful as God because I don't understand how God could then create a cage that could contain her forever. And that she couldn't do really anything within that cage. Like, learn to play the cards you're dealt, Amara. I don't want to blame the victim, but I am also like omfg Amara it's difficult for me to see you, a primordial force on the level of God or Death, as a VICTIM ffs. Victim AND primordial force just doesn't compute. Eh, whatever. I'm too tired to figure this out right now tbh.

[trxr4kids]

7 hours ago, rue721 said:

. The episode in general had absolutely NO depth. it was aggressively shallow.

Aggressively shallow actually sums up how I feel about the Carver years with very few exceptions.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Just a couple things I didn't quite pick up the first time I watched it:

• Chuck said Michael was "in no condition" to fight - which sounds to me like at least he isn't still in the cage anymore.  But I don't know why Guck couldn't have healed him, like he healed Lucifer.  Unless he did heal Michael's 'body' (such as angels have when not in meatsuits) but psychologically, Michael wasn't ready.  Anyway, my newest headcannon is that Michael is out of the cage and maybe on sabbatical somewhere.  :)
• First Chuck said that there was nothing he could do about Gabriel or Raphael, which sounded like no way, no how.  Then he said they were made of some primordial stuff and he didn't have time...So again: new headcannon that after Chuck's done catching up with his sister and has a few moments of down time and gets bored, he's going to start working on them again.  Gabriel at least.  Cause I'll bet Chuck liked his sense of humor - and Raphael didn't seem to have one at all. 

Sam and Dean sure are looking good these last few episodes.

[catrox14]

Geez. This was on TNT today. I still hate this episode LOL

Chuck sucks.

The entire bit of Chuck, Casifer and Sam  ganging up on Dean about his INABILITY to kill Amara as in HE CAN'T DO IT because God thinks he secretly doesn't want to kill her, makes absolutely no sense to the narrative of Dean and Amara all season. 

Dean was not happy about his creepy connection to Amara. We already knew he might not be able to kill her because she was controlling him. This conversation is just stupid. All because Casifer wants to poke at Dean about Auntie Amara being Dean's GF.  What a load of crap it all is.

I don't even start me on the bullshit with the Mark of Cain.

This whole episode makes me want to poke my eye with a rusty spork. 

[FlickChick]

I wouldn't even watch it today. It is a lousy episode - a Berens script - that I believe was overseen by Dabb - not Carver. I think Carver was long gone by this time. So the writing was on the wall in this episode, for things to follow.

[Katy M]

On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:44 PM, catrox14 said:

The entire bit of Chuck, Casifer and Sam  ganging up on Dean about his INABILITY to kill Amara as in HE CAN'T DO IT because God thinks he secretly doesn't want to kill her, makes absolutely no sense to the narrative of Dean and Amara all season. 

I know.  That is in the top 10 of the stupidest thing ever said on this show.  We saw him try to stab her in O Brother Where ARt Thou and his blade shattered.  How does that equate to him not wanting to.  Dean doesn't have that kind of power to make a blade shatter because he's unsure of his kill.

[bettername2come]

I don't hate Lucifer being a petty teenager. "It's not your room." "It's my room" does manage to get a chuckle out of me, if for no other reason than just that of course Lucifer took Sam's room when there's plenty of guest rooms available. Like the demons laughing in Crowley's face about his plan to make hell great again. I like the witch with the gun. I love Rowena in the sparkly blue dress. I like that when Chuck calls Sam and Dean the peanut gallery, he actually banishes them to the balcony. It's a nice visual pun. I do think this portion went on too long. I love that shot where Sam just appeared behind Rowena. They have my favorite portion of the recruitment scenes. I really like that witch Rowena meets. She's so practical. She should've lasted longer. Amara couldn't figure out Kansas on her own? They've been there three years! Poor Donatello. I love that overhead shot of the team when they pan up to God's perspective. "I've been quietly rooting against you both for some time now." Rowena really needs to stop going after powerful men. I love that one witch is just sitting there playing the bongos. Poor Clea. That shot of Chuck floating as Amara attacks looks really cool. I like that Amara did actually turn her head and listen when Dean yelled "No!" The shot of of Rowena looking up into the dying sunlight is pretty. There's a lot of good visuals in this one. 

I do wish we could have gotten the scene that (according to Jared) was filmed of God telling Sam to not be afraid of Lucifer. Not sure if that included the Mark of Cain part.

[Hanahope]

Well, I suppose a good try, but they really blew it at the end.  I did like seeing Rowena channel other witches, too bad they all got fried.  Everyone else seemed to be ok, well, except for Chuck.

Why couldn't Lucifer take back the Mark, why was Sam even considered?  I mean, its not like its going to hurt Lucifer any more than it already did, and Lucifer wasn't really going to 'get better' without the mark (as he certainly hadn't have how many millenia since Cain?

So its a big, now what?  Since I know there's an S12, it'll be interesting to see how they write their way out of this one.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Hanahope

[The Companion]

 

On 5/18/2016 at 9:26 PM, bethy said:

Right? I seriously could not figure out the connections between the sentences they were stringing together.

I did not understand what they were trying to say either. Dean wants God to kill her cause he doesn't want her dead? I don't get it at all.

On 5/18/2016 at 9:42 PM, redfish said:

More like a sullen teenager, including locking himself in a room and blasting the music.

Kind of felt sorry for the prophet Donatello. That was a crappy way to go.

Donatello may have been the dumbest part of this entire storyline. So we have this new prophet who knows where we live. What should we do with him? Let's send him back to his home, unprotected in any way, in his otherwise empty town. What? 

I don't even understand why they bothered to introduce him. Or why they bother with that scene and the scene of Amara wandering around in the bunker. Maybe it will come back next episode for some reason, but it seemed like a waste of the character.

I kept thinking during the scene that Lucifer was going to show up. I guess there is no archangel protection left for prophets? 

On 5/19/2016 at 1:14 AM, SueB said:

What a riot.  This was everything AND the kitchen sink.  As I watched it, it felt like Berens took ALL THE THEORIES and put them into one episode just to get them out of the way.  I kept thinking of the Kim Manner's guidance -- give them what they want but not in the way they expect.  I kept thinking this episode was targeted at some points of view that generally piss people off.  Let me see if I can make a coherent list & what purpose I think it served:

1) Band of Brothers - they even SAID those words.  One of the popular theories is that they would have to enlist the aid of all of God's creations to make a stand.  And they did.  But there's a cheese-factor there.  Like "this is the obvious choice, so obviously it's not going to work." And they threw in a TON of "explainers" - why he couldn't get the archangels back quickly,  what Rowena's escape plan was, that the demons didn't respect Crowley, etc...  And they picked the perfect representatives from Team Free Will to approach the allies - Dean goes to Crowley, Sam goes to Rowena ('giant!'), Cas goes to the Angels. 

2) God vs Lucifer - another "expected" confrontation. And although they actually DID "open up a vein", the tone was very very light compared to the topic.  Not hi-jinx comedy but bits like the loud music (in Sam's room!), shoving the boys literally in the gallery area (as they were the peanut gallery).  Again, I felt like the points that were hit were ones people thought they would -- God's sorrow over Lucifer being affected by the Mark, God pointing out that Lucifer was already side-eyeing humanity before he gave him the Mark, Lucifer being a brat and just wanting attention (I kept hearing Gabriel's voice in my head).

3) Sam takes on the Mark - I laughed out loud when that happened. Not because it was funny but because it was precisely what a few have been DREADING all year.  It was like they had been watching our "Spoilers with Speculation" thread and wanted to screw with the posters. 

4) Amara confronts God for the yellow crayon speech and it... fails! Again, a heavily predicted/speculated confrontation.  And the arguments were all ones people had suggested: ying/yang, humanity is important, Amara can't die, etc. Pretty much every single argument made by God during the course of the episode was one someone had suggested as God's plan.

In short - this episode was the extravaganza confrontation with special effects and big bold actions.  And of course it didn't work.  It was NEVER going to work.  In fact, I don't think God expected it to work.  Look, I could be wrong, but this episode was like a "paint by numbers" of fan theories.  And the real finale is going to be next week -- and it's going to HURT.  This episode had huge events and yet it didn't actually "hurt".  Nothing was given time to have the appropriate gravitas. 

Things that DID feel "real":
- Dean can't kill Amara. And he instinctually doesn't want her hurt.
- Amara got the raw end of the stick.  I think God is TRULY sorry for what he did to her. 
- Amara's pain.  She's more than a mountain of pissed off, she wanted to die rather than be caged ALONE again. And her brother tricked her again.  That was heartbreaking to watch.

Little bits that were very entertaining in this episode:
- I liked the fellow witch Rowena visited and I liked the "go back in history" concept.  Not a bad idea Rowena.
- I liked the arguments each of the members of Team Free Will posited to their recruits.
- I liked "Dad" making pancakes.

In summary; this was a subversive episode.  It took all the existing theories of how things were going to play out and just DID THEM.  As if to say "there, we've tried it your way..... what do you think?" But I don't feel any animosity from the writers with this.  I feel like they thought they HAD to play out the most popular theories of how these characters/events would play out just so people wouldn't wonder "what if....".  Now you know... they've done "fill in the blank."  So MUCH canon/fanon was covered in this episode, I think we'll be referring to it in the future.

This feels like the calm before the storm.  And that's saying something. 

It's interesting to get this context after the fact, not being exposed to many fan theories in the episode threads. 

On 5/19/2016 at 1:56 AM, catrox14 said:

I've been expecting a Rowena-Sam hookup for 2 seasons.  Rowena is right in Sam's wheelhouse when you think about it. She's evil, duplicitous, acts monstrously and is very short. Amelia and Jessica were the odd birds IMO.

This is not a ship I knew sailed. 😂 I can kind of see it, now that you mention it. 

If it happens, she better check her thigh magic regeneration spell. Just saying.

On 5/19/2016 at 5:21 PM, ZennyKenny said:

Bonus question:

The angels did that "group smite" thing again. So, is the next episode just going to be everyone vomiting and/or turning into a pillar of salt, or or we just conveniently forgetting about that aspect?

I thought the same thing when it was happening. Maybe it was God's protection/warding? All I got.

 

I don't even know how to tackle this episode. It was another And Then Episode. I think I just have to accept that Supernatural often has these episodes at the end of the season. Where 100 ideas go to die at once. They are rarely satisfying, but there are usually some redeemable bits and you wish that someone had taken a couple of passes at the script with a red pen.

So, starting with the good:

• I actually liked the team up concept. I enjoyed the cuts where they are talking each party into joining. They were funny ("Clea, dear, is this how it's going to be with us in Crete?") heeee
• I loved the witches (even the super bad accent on Clea) and I am saddest about bongo witch. Come back, bongo witch!
• On that thread, I am so happy Rowena is back. She provided some of the most watchable parts of this episode for me. I loved how she said "Hello, Fergus" when she saw her son. I don't know why, but it made me laugh.
• I wish we had gotten a bit more of the awkward as the parties came together, but I loved the scene where they were all uncomfortably preparing for battle.
• The battle, although poorly thought out strategy wise and full of some questionable CGI was actually intense and engaging

I think that is about all the good I have, unfortunately. I echo everyone's frustration that Sam apparently had this huge conversation off screen regarding the Mark. I hated the therapy between God and Lucifer but not as much as I hated that Lucifer is apparently a sulky teen instead of an angry fallen archangel. 

I continue to find Amara about as exciting as boiled cabbage. I knew I didn't like her and, therefore, the end of this season was likely to be boring for me. She just doesn't seem particularly interesting.  I don't feel sorry for her. She is petulant and whiny. Blech.

On the world's most worthless scenes, why the hell did we have to get Crowley gets mocked by the demons? I would have far preferred a scene where he tries to sell attacking the Darkness to the demons. 

I don't know why, but the confirmation that the MoC supposedly magnifies what is already there really pissed me off. I think because I don't feel like some of the things Dean did while sporting the MoC were actually like him. Perhaps I am still hung up on Demon Dean calling that woman a skank. Ugh.

Anyway, I don't find myself particularly excited about the finale, but I have been wrong before.

[gonzosgirrl]

Don't worry about feeling the feelings and fretting over things made canon. Trust me.

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, The Companion said:

On the world's most worthless scenes, why the hell did we have to get Crowley gets mocked by the demons? I would have far preferred a scene where he tries to sell attacking the Darkness to the demons. 

Actually, I kind of liked that part.  Crowley's not much of a king if he keeps getting kidnapped for weeks at a time.  First by the Winchesters, and then Lucifer.  How are the demons suppoed to follow him around when anyone can take him down?

[The Companion]

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Don't worry about feeling the feelings and fretting over things made canon. Trust me.

Kind of the core of fandom, isn't it? Lol.

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Actually, I kind of liked that part.  Crowley's not much of a king if he keeps getting kidnapped for weeks at a time.  First by the Winchesters, and then Lucifer.  How are the demons suppoed to follow him around when anyone can take him down?

It just didn't seem to relate back to the plot and then he somehow talks the demons into joining the fight offscreen

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

Kind of the core of fandom, isn't it? Lol.

 

It was more along the lines of 'you ain't seen nothing yet'. LOL

[Smad]

9 hours ago, The Companion said:

The battle, although poorly thought out strategy wise and full of some questionable CGI was actually intense and engaging

The battle doesn't even make sense to me. So on top of extra bad cgi it was also ridiculous.

9 hours ago, The Companion said:

She is petulant and whiny. Blech.

Hey now. I'm sure if someone locked me in a hole for eternity because they were ego tripping, I would be a pissed as hell. And I'd probably be a little petulant and whiny as well and frankly I would be entitled to it. Just saying...

[The Companion]

9 hours ago, Smad said:

 

Hey now. I'm sure if someone locked me in a hole for eternity because they were ego tripping, I would be a pissed as hell. And I'd probably be a little petulant and whiny as well and frankly I would be entitled to it. Just saying...

I would probably be less whiny and more burn it all to the ground and stomp on the ashes.  She is one of the most powerful beings in the universe. She is destruction incarnate. She should be strolling up to a trap. She should be enveloped in darkness so deep you can't see your own hand. She should be rage and vengance. Maybe that is just me, but I want something more. I also think that the contrast of rage and destruction with her quieter Dean obsession would play better. 

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I would probably be less whiny and more burn it all to the ground and stomp on the ashes.  She is one of the most powerful beings in the universe. She is destruction incarnate. She should be strolling up to a trap. She should be enveloped in darkness so deep you can't see your own hand. She should be rage and vengance. Maybe that is just me, but I want something more. I also think that the contrast of rage and destruction with her quieter Dean obsession would play better. 

Valid points, and it definitely could have been a way to go.

I think that Amara started as a baby might have had an impact though. My theory - though they could have showed it better - is that maybe she is conflicted. She's angry and hurt and wanted to destroy, but at the same time, she's connected to Dean and she's learned through him and through "growing" what it is that Chuck created. And maybe - sort of like Metatron (though his arc was better developed) - she had second thoughts. By the time she absorbed enough power to really get her destruction on, she didn't want to harm Chuck's creation any more... she was only angry at Chuck.

I had theorized at the time (somewhere on the board) that through her connection with him, Dean became Amara's representative of Chuck's creations, including humanity. So even from the beginning (before she was even out, due to the mark), she was feeling his desire to protect people and his appreciation of even the simple things. And then later - through the unfortunate music choice montage - she learned firsthand what the world was like, and she found she kinda liked it and maybe didn't want to destroy it anymore.

But Chuck she was still angry with - which lead to the current conflict. That's my fanwank of what's happening.***

*** Though of course the actual explanation is probably that it was easier and less costly to not have her all destruction and darkness.

[The Companion]

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Valid points, and it definitely could have been a way to go.

I think that Amara started as a baby might have had an impact though. My theory - though they could have showed it better - is that maybe she is conflicted. She's angry and hurt and wanted to destroy, but at the same time, she's connected to Dean and she's learned through him and through "growing" what it is that Chuck created. And maybe - sort of like Metatron (though his arc was better developed) - she had second thoughts. By the time she absorbed enough power to really get her destruction on, she didn't want to harm Chuck's creation any more... she was only angry at Chuck.

I had theorized at the time (somewhere on the board) that through her connection with him, Dean became Amara's representative of Chuck's creations, including humanity. So even from the beginning (before she was even out, due to the mark), she was feeling his desire to protect people and his appreciation of even the simple things. And then later - through the unfortunate music choice montage - she learned firsthand what the world was like, and she found she kinda liked it and maybe didn't want to destroy it anymore.

But Chuck she was still angry with - which lead to the current conflict. That's my fanwank of what's happening.***

*** Though of course the actual explanation is probably that it was easier and less costly to not have her all destruction and darkness.

I like this and would have also accepted it if developed.

I feel like (and it seems there is an undercurrent of this in this thread) they feel the need to keep escalating. Each big bad has to be bigger and badder. But the budget and technological constraints only allow for so much.

So, if we have to bring her smaller, it would be nice to do so with intention. Your theory could have worked well (and I recognize that it may be better supported in the next episode, which I haven't seen).