The Blacklist: Redemption - General Discussion

[willco]

18 hours ago, PamB said:

So maybe read the above posts and you may find some answers. 

Well, I was trying to get opinions on whether people liked the finale and still avoid knowing everything that happened. If I read everything, chances are most of the plot points will be discussed.

 

Guess I'll just decide for myself.

[calipiano81]

I actually didn't mind Famke Janssen in this role (except IMO, she does not look anywhere old enough to believably be Tom's mom, even if age-wise, she technically can be). To me, Scottie just seemed more ruthless than necessary sometimes, but now that Howard has shown what he's capable of, my sympathy will likely turn to Scottie if this show happens to continue.

[Princess Lucky]

1 hour ago, willco said:

Well, I was trying to get opinions on whether people liked the finale and still avoid knowing everything that happened. If I read everything, chances are most of the plot points will be discussed.

 

Guess I'll just decide for myself.

If you liked the show so far, you'll like the finale. Simple as that. It was probably one of the strongest episodes of Redemption.

It was a fitting ending (as of now it seems like the show might not get picked up, but that's all the more reason to see how it ends). It was fun and fast-paced, and all the characters got their moment to shine. Also, there was a lot of Terry O'Quinn, so I think you should watch it just for that.

[TobinAlbers]

4 hours ago, ally said:

I still like Howard more,  but it's probably because I like Terry O'Quinn so much.  Someone posted this on another episode,  but can you imagine him playing opposite Christine Baranski?   Can you imagine Christine Baranski playing her role alongside James Spader on TBL?  It would have been a totally different show, I imagine I would have cared about the younger characters even less.

It blows my mind that Christine Baranski was first choice for this and I'm bummed that we didn't get to see her play a shady operative opposite Terry O'Quinn. Talk about a ruthless power couple.

And it's so true that in the finale, Tom was pushed aside in his own show as Howard and Scottie went head to head. Tom was an afterthought until the end when the ball falls in his lap that Howard wasn't on the up and up.

[Just my 2 cents]

3 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

I actually didn't mind Famke Janssen in this role (except IMO, she does not look anywhere old enough to believably be Tom's mom, even if age-wise, she technically can be). To me, Scottie just seemed more ruthless than necessary sometimes, but now that Howard has shown what he's capable of, my sympathy will likely turn to Scottie if this show happens to continue.

I no longer have cable and I'm watching antenna on a HDTV, trust me when I say she really does look like she could be Tom's mother when they show her up close.  At first I thought the same as you.  She still has the youthful thinness, but she looks as if she's had every type of filler, chemical peel, and face tightening treatment they offer in Hollywood except for plastic surgery.

[weathered1]

The episode had its issues, as people have brilliantly covered already in this thread. I didn't mind them, though, because this show really has (had?) one hell of a cast. TOQ is perfection as Howard, Tawny Cypress and Edi Gathegi have done exceptionally well with their characters, and Ryan Eggold has been fantastic. I've truly been impressed by the latter and his ability to tackle everything from the emotional beats to action and everything in between. In fact, I'd say the one thing that I didn't like about the finale was how Tom was shuffled aside so it could be the Howard/Scottie show. 

Famke, from the very beginning of this show, has been really hit or miss for me - at times, she was really very good; at other times, her line readings came across quite stilted to me. Knowing that Christine Baranski was the first choice to play the character really makes me wish we could've seen that. 

I continue to be not be a fan of the assistant or the boytoy, and the "twist" of Howard being an evil mastermind and the boytoy being in on it were both entirely predictable. 

If this was the end of the show - and I truly hope it wasn't - I have to say that it would be really disappointing (to me) to bring this over to the mothership and have it focus on Red. I also kind of feel like that would be a slap in the face to the actors who have brought this story to life - their work made this story what it is, but most of them would likely disappear or be made into virtual wallpaper so that Red can figure out and rectify everything. 

All things being equal, I've found this show to be far more entertaining than the mothership has been in a very long time. I really hope this wasn't the last we see of the show and the characters, and I find the possibility of Tom Keen having to be, what, 3rd fiddle at best on the Red and Lizzie show to be disappointing in the extreme. The entire cast of this show - esp. Ryan Eggold - deserves far better than that, imo.

[Kelda Feegle]

I'd be happy to see Solomon go off and join Mr Kaplan for a spin-off series - I'd watch the hell out of that

[Happytobehere]

EW has the show on its to be cancelled list.

[MostlyC]

According to Deadline, it's on the Bubble.

 

source:  http://deadline.com/2017/04/bubble-watch-elementary-2-broke-girls-quantico-exorcist-timeless-oncwe-upon-a-time-blindspotseries-renewal-status-1202068661/

[Biggie B]

I truly enjoyed this finale and I hope the show comes back. There's a lot of meat still on the bone and as many have said, the acting is quite good. I think the show does what I want it to do for me, and that's keep me fairly engaged and entertained for 42 minutes. So here's hoping it returns and if so, I hope there's no crossover with the original Blacklist; the characters are already strong enough, adding Red to the mix would dilute it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[misstwpherecool]

Eh, with all the conspiracy mongering in the beginning of the show with Howard and Blacklist style contrived blots the end was not that surprising.

So Howard is the body double who initiated a mission to incur a cover up and destruction of the program he was from.

[Utpe]

I, too, saw that coming from a mile away with Howard actually being the bad guy, especially the way he reacted in that one particular scene with Liz.  It was just really obvious and predictable.

Though, I would like the series to continue.  I really want to know what's going to happen with Scottie now that Tom knows about her (stupid the way they handled it, BTW).  Plus, I love Edi Gathegi!  His facial expressions, his mannerisms, the way he interacts with Tom, he's my James Spader of this series.

I suppose if it isn't renewed, then it'll probably be resolved on The Blacklist by something Tom will briefly mention for a few seconds onscreen.  I really hope it doesn't boil down to that but, with the way the ratings are, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Princess Lucky]

10 hours ago, Utpe said:

I suppose if it isn't renewed, then it'll probably be resolved on The Blacklist by something Tom will briefly mention for a few seconds onscreen.  I really hope it doesn't boil down to that but, with the way the ratings are, it wouldn't surprise me.

The ratings of The Blacklist aren't much better, though. The Redemption finale did a 0.7 and the two new episodes of The Blacklist did a 0.9 and a 0.8. What if they're both cancelled, and we're left wondering? I hope they just cancel, like, Blindspot (not because it's bad but because I don't watch it, heh) and we can get at least one Blacklist-related show back.

[Guest]

My opinion on why the ratings for this show are so bad, even though the actors aren't:

1) creepy mother/son vibe creates desire to scrub brain cells,

2) mother has son tortured,

3) Solomon kills just for the fun of it.

I feel that if I continue to watch this, the network will take the mother/son vibe to a place that it will describe as "groundbreaking. " It may also push the torture to a 24 level, and, lastly, it may try to define a psychotic killer as a hero.

[Princess Lucky]

1 hour ago, Swim mom said:

My opinion on why the ratings for this show are so bad, even though the actors aren't:

1) creepy mother/son vibe creates desire to scrub brain cells,

2) mother has son tortured,

3) Solomon kills just for the fun of it.

I feel that if I continue to watch this, the network will take the mother/son vibe to a place that it will describe as "groundbreaking. " It may also push the torture to a 24 level, and, lastly, it may try to define a psychotic killer as a hero.

I think the ratings were low because this show was too attached to The Blacklist, which is a) aging and b) not strong enough ratings-wise to support a spin-off. Not everyone who watches The Blacklist likes Tom (though, judging by the similarity in the ratings, it seems that many viewers do) so I imagine that say, Spader fans or Liz fans (if such a thing exists) may have skipped it.

I don't think the show was able to attract many new viewers (save for Famke fans, I guess?) , because they probably assumed they'd need to have watched The Blacklist first, to get the backstory. And that's kind of true. I said that early on in the season, but if they had created a whole new show, with a whole new set of characters played by these exact actors, with these exact scripts, pitched as an Oceans 11-type of adventure show, it might have done better. I feel it was hindered by its connection to the mothership.

[ottoDbusdriver]

7 hours ago, Swim mom said:

My opinion on why the ratings for this show are so bad, even though the actors aren't:

1) creepy mother/son vibe creates desire to scrub brain cells,

2) mother has son tortured,

3) Solomon kills just for the fun of it.

I feel that if I continue to watch this, the network will take the mother/son vibe to a place that it will describe as "groundbreaking. " It may also push the torture to a 24 level, and, lastly, it may try to define a psychotic killer as a hero.

Plus, a complete lack of any redemption whatsoever -- making the show title completely irrelevant.

Might as well have called this show the "The Blacklist 2.0: The Quickening" or "The Blacklist 2: Electric Boogaloo", it would have been just as meaningful as redemption.

[Loandbehold]

Quote

I said that early on in the season, but if they had created a whole new show, with a whole new set of characters played by these exact actors, with these exact scripts, pitched as an Oceans 11-type of adventure show, it might have done better. I feel it was hindered by its connection to the mothership.

I was thinking Mission Impossible, but I can see Oceans 11 as well. 

Quote

Plus, a complete lack of any redemption whatsoever -- making the show title completely irrelevant.
 

Exactly. I kept waiting to see if there would be any, but there was none. I would definitely watch a show with these actors, playing the same types of characters, just completely unconnected to The Blacklist. No redemption necessary.

[orza]

The title refers to Tom's redemption. He started out as a ruthless bad guy in The Blacklist and gradually changed into the good guy who's all about his family. In this show he is the good guy trying to find answers and fighting the good fight, or so he thinks.

[MrSmith]

On 4/15/2017 at 5:13 PM, willco said:

Well, I was trying to get opinions on whether people liked the finale and still avoid knowing everything that happened. If I read everything, chances are most of the plot points will be discussed.

 

Guess I'll just decide for myself.

It's worth watching. Don't let the fact that @PamB was a snarky jerk deter you from asking such questions. I'm sure @PamB is normally really nice and helpful and probably just had a bad day. I get like that sometimes, myself. Today, I'm feeling helpful. :D

[MrSmith]

On 4/22/2017 at 6:50 AM, Princess Lucky said:

The ratings of The Blacklist aren't much better, though. The Redemption finale did a 0.7 and the two new episodes of The Blacklist did a 0.9 and a 0.8. What if they're both cancelled, and we're left wondering? I hope they just cancel, like, Blindspot (not because it's bad but because I don't watch it, heh) and we can get at least one Blacklist-related show back.

Blindspot is better, in my opinion, than either of The Blacklist shows. And it's starting to get really interesting again, after a lull of a few episodes. They've got a number of different directions they can take that show if it gets renewed.

[DanaMB]

Canceled

 

:(

[Princess Lucky]

Very sad to see this show go. It was so fun, well acted, and perfect for what it was. At least we were expecting it, so we were prepared. At this point, I'll just look at it as a "limited" mini series which served its purpose (it properly utilized Ryan Eggold, and it gave us 8 action-packed episodes).

On the bright side, Tom/Ryan Eggold will be returning to The Blacklist as a regular, so I'm going to hope against hope that we get some sort of a resolution on the Scottie/Howard story.

Maybe next year, if the Red/Liz mystery is finally resolved, Liz and Tom can just open Season 5 with a long conversation about their parentage.

[ottoDbusdriver]

14 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

Maybe next year, if the Red/Liz mystery is finally resolved, Liz and Tom can just open Season 5 with a long conversation about their parentage.

And maybe ask where their dogs went.

[MostlyC]

Has anyone in the media said how they were going to resolve the "cliffhanger" or will that be addressed in a "closing door episode" on blacklist next season?

[Utpe]

I'm not surprised.  The ratings just weren't there.  Even The Blacklist was on the bubble for a while before getting a fifth season renewal.

Besides, was there any real redemption in this series?  Tom was just his usual self while leaving behind Agnes and his dog (LOL).  Scottie had her own son tortured.  Howard wanted to save the world, but turned evil in the very last episode.  Mr. Solomon was still a murdering S.O.B., even though we did get some insight into his past.  I guess Nez and Dumont were the only ones that redeemed themselves?  I don't know.

Well, the one thing I will definitely miss about this show is Mr. Solomon.  Even though he was a baddie through and through, Edi Gathegi's mannerisms and dialogue were absolutely hilarious!  Give him and Ryan Eggold some screen time in the mothership.

I'm a little tired of Liz at this point.

[JasmineFlower]

I'm trying to catch up on Blacklist and watching Redemption as well even though my interest in it is low to see what Tom was up to in his off time. Interesting that many think this show is getting better at this stage since this episode was just okay for me. Similar to someone else's comment up thread, I do remember somewhat the La Femme Nikita episode where a similar concept was explored. I also remember in great detail when this idea was executed much better on Alias, in the Welcome to Liberty Village episode. It's why I decided to comment so late after it aired, I'm surprised it wasn't already mentioned. This felt like a complete rip off of that, so that lack of originality really isn't making me feel like this show has gotten any better.

I am happy to see Tom remembers he's married, I was beginning to wonder what alternate timeline this was occurring in. Definitely seems like this shouldn't have been a spin-off, just a standalone series. I don't get what they are doing with the Scottie character and feel like Famke has been misused on here thus far and I'm not a fan of how they are using his birth father (Locke). I'm also generally not nearly as impressed by this show's cast as everyone else seems to be.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, JasmineFlower said:

I do remember somewhat the La Femme Nikita episode where a similar concept was explored. I also remember in great detail when this idea was executed much better on Alias, in the Welcome to Liberty Village episode. It's why I decided to comment so late after it aired, I'm surprised it wasn't already mentioned. 

And both the La Femme Nikita  and Alias episodes came well after Nelson DeMille's The Charm School, which is where I first read of the concept.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Loandbehold
clarity

[Gothish520]

On 4/14/2017 at 3:31 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I loved the finale. It lived up to its hype, and it gave the perfect amount of closure while also setting up a potential (but unlikely?) season 2.

This was seriously some solid storytelling. I have to applaud this show for managing to shift its narrative in just 8 episodes without feeling uneven. This all started as a procedural action show, with the promise of an arc (Howard's crazy claims), but in all the standalone episodes the writers managed to plant the seeds which led to the central mystery (even Nez's addiction storyline wasn't there just to set up her loyalty to Howard, but to provide them with a team for the finale). And the last few episodes were totally serialized, which felt like the culmination of this entire story, without feeling like a change of format. Well done.

The "twist" of Howard being evil was predictable (as we all said last week) but the way they did it, that frame-up, that was so good. Even Solomon doubted Scottie. And I agree that Tom (in the moment) did the right thing in not believing her. Tom didn't hurt her, he technically handed her to the authorities. I loved that (slightly inappropriate, unnecessarily whispery) moment, when she tried to take a swing at him, and he just held her. I can't wait to see what he'll do now that he knows the truth.

Speaking of a possible S2, the assistant and the boytoy need to both be dead. In fact, the one thing the assistant did right was make sure the guy was dead, instead of hitting him once and then fleeing. What she did wrong was not go to the authorities with that memory stick. Didn't she have it already, when she confronted David (or whatever)? Isn't the point to get Scottie released? Oh and I can't believe Scottie didn't immediately suspect that guy. He was the only one who had access to both her and her secretary's devices.

Anyway. The writing was mostly (and surprisingly) good, but the actors really made this show work. I mean, this was such a great role for Terry O'Quinn. He was amazing throughout, and you could tell he had so much fun with it. These great actors, sometimes they're wasted on network procedurals, in generic roles that go nowhere. This role did TOQ justice, and I'm happy for him. On that same note, Solomon's monologue was so pointless but also so well-delivered (and a perfect temporary ending for the character). Again, a role that did the actor justice. And the Nez and Tom relationship was truly the highlight of this entire season, in the end. So heartwarming, and it's all because of those two actors, working off of each other in an easy, natural way.

Lastly, I hesitate to say this (because it's sacrilege), but especially in light of this finale, this show really ended up reminding me of Person of Interest (except the Redemption writers switched from procedural to serialized within, like, 5 episodes instead of 3-ish seasons). I'd love to see Terry O'Quinn's Howard meet Michael Emerson's Harold Finch. And Tom/Ryan Eggold would make for an excellent Man in the Suit replacement.

I enjoyed every minute of this show, and that's more I could have asked for. I'm glad NBC went ahead and made it. It gave us 8 fun weeks.

I am way late to the party, but just had to say I agree with this. I was so bummed it wasn't renewed and I really hope we get some crossover on BL with these characters, and some resolution to this story. 

[TobinAlbers]

Well, Scottie at least gets to have a reaction to Tom's death. She'll appear on The Blacklist.