The Blacklist: Redemption - General Discussion

[milkyaqua]

I do appreciate that they didn't drag out the reveal however I am leery of how this is going to work now as others have said.  I don't mind the change in tone to a darker one though I do like the lighter moments.  I am more interested in how the split loyalties thing is going to work.  I hope the show can make it somewhat believable but I'm doubtful.

And yes, when Howard was making his plea to Scottie about the only good thing they'd done, I was like, "Huh?"  But okay, show.

I will scream though if it turns out that Tom is not their son.

Also, knew insurance guy was the bad guy since the actor usually plays creeps.

Preview for next week looks good but I could do without Lizzie though I don't mind seeing Harold.

Edited March 31, 2017 by milkyaqua

[margol29]

My biggest sticking point with this episode is that Howard thinks that Scottie is a Russian sleeper agent. If she is, why would she care that Tom is the long lost son? He is not HER son. Howard is the only one that knows. If she offs Tom, no one is the wiser. Unless he has something to do with her mission? Oh well.....

[orza]

Being a sleeper agent and being Tom's mother are not mutually exclusive. Russian agent Scottie could have been put in place shortly before or after she married Howard. Getting pregnant could have been planned or a serendipitous oopsy that was used to solidify her relationship with Howard. If a sleeper agent is willing to marry her asset with the intent of maintaining that marriage for years then starting a family with him is not such a stretch. Once the baby is there maternal instinct kicks in and she is just like any other woman who loves her child and stays in a bad marriage for reasons, except her reason are more nefarious than most. If Scottie is not Tom's mother she still has to play the part convincingly to maintain her cover to her team and the world at large regardless of who Howard thinks she is.

I hope Howard turns out to be the good guy and he and Tom take down Scottie so the character can be written out of the show. Terry O'Quinn improves everything he is in. He would also be a much stronger lead than Famke Janssen. I am not impressed with her and she is getting really hard to look at, what with her mediocre acting, borderline emaciated body and over-processed face. I thought it was funny that Howard made a comment to Scottie that she was too skinny and needed to eat some carbs and then for the rest of the episode they put FJ in outfits that showed exactly what Howard was talking about.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 3/30/2017 at 11:12 PM, TobinAlbers said:

I laughed so hard at Tom's jump off the roof. His form was so odd like he was jumping off a pier into water.

Is Tom Batman now ?  He literally leaped off a rooftop (without looking first) that was multiple stories high -- how is he not injured, let alone alive.  Seriously, WTF was that ?

Tom (to the driver)" "It's going to be ok"
Blam! Killshot to the head.

That was funny and oh so predictable at the same time, and I'm pretty sure that's not what the show was going for -- who writes this crap ?

On 3/31/2017 at 3:07 AM, mandigirl said:

What was that?? No seriously, what the HECK was that? I'm not saying this show was rainbows and sunshine, but this episode barely resembled the previous episodes with their light-ish, caper/heist vibe. The show went several shades darker, and it wasn't a good look. I'm not sure the writers know what tone they want to go with this show yet, but keep on lookin'. Thanks, but no thanks.

Agreed.   The plots are getting as lame as the mothership, and are simplying with every episode. 

How soon before the Halycon team goes looking for some Chechen strongman's missing cat (something has been aptly detailed by John Oliver on Last Week Tonight) ?

[calipiano81]

4 hours ago, orza said:

Being a sleeper agent and being Tom's mother are not mutually exclusive. Russian agent Scottie could have been put in place shortly before or after she married Howard. Getting pregnant could have been planned or a serendipitous oopsy that was used to solidify her relationship with Howard. If a sleeper agent is willing to marry her asset with the intent of maintaining that marriage for years then starting a family with him is not such a stretch. Once the baby is there maternal instinct kicks in and she is just like any other woman who loves her child and stays in a bad marriage for reasons, except her reason are more nefarious than most. If Scottie is not Tom's mother she still has to play the part convincingly to maintain her cover to her team and the world at large regardless of who Howard thinks she is.

Except Howard told Tom he thinks the real Scottie was killed and replaced after their son (Tom AKA Christopher) disappeared. He said that she was different, which he originally chalked up to the loss of a child, but then eventually got on to the sleeper agent theory.

But then again, maybe Howard thinks Scottie as an agent would HAVE to at least pretend to not want to kill her son, in order to protect her cover.

My issues with the Howard/Scottie interactions were actually...

a) Why was she putting on the worried wife act when she first saw him at the hospital?

b) Both of them so far in the series have claimed to not know what Whitehall is (Howard to Tom, Scottie to Trevor) and suspects the other of having developed some secret mission. Yet Scottie said to Howard, "you don't have the capability to understand what Whitehall is." Was she outing herself as the secretive party?

Edited April 1, 2017 by calipiano81

[saber5055]

Orza, I agree with everything you said about Howard vs. Scottie, especially this: "he is getting really hard to look at, what with her mediocre acting, borderline emaciated body and over-processed face." Over-processed face indeed. And when the camera gives it a close up ... oh, please. That would be the best if she's "eliminated" and Howard takes over the "team." Solomon and his Austin Powers turtleneck can go too, please.

Oops, that was suppose to be SHE'S getting really hard to look at.

And "if she WERE eliminated." I really need to proofread these things.

[Happytobehere]

On 3/31/2017 at 10:27 AM, TobinAlbers said:

They saved the confrontation and interrogation for next week.  For this week they wanted to have the drama of Scottie and Howard having their confrontation and he dropping the bomb while Tom was in 'peril'.

The more effective way for that reveal would've been exactly as you said - Scottie brings Tom in and has Solomon interrogate/beat him, Scottie threatens him and his family and Tom doesn't break. Or maybe he does and admits he was working with Howard and is her son once she threatens his family, but Scottie doesn't believe him and she goes back to Howard and taunts him with finding his mole, shows him a live feed of Solomon with a gun to Tom's head and is about to give the kill order unless Howard comes clean about Whitehall when Howard then confirms that Tom is indeed their son and she realizes with horror that the one person in the world she wanted back she's effectively obliterated that reunion bridge.

Then her 'Redemption' story truly begins. But for them to go that dark (and logical place) leaves no room for Tom or Scottie to rebuild any kind of familial relationship.

Me too! Sad thing is I do think Howard is playing them both because this guy isn't Howard. Howard really did die on the plane and his doppleganger who works for another nefarious group was put in his place to out Scottie through Tom. That way Tom and Scottie are bonded together with the goal of avenging Howard if there is a Season 2.

I really like this entire post.  We have been so focused on Scottie and Tom and their true identities, for the reveal to be that Tom is Christopher and Scottie is Scottie, but Howard is the fake would be great.  It would also solidify Scottie and Tom's connection.  I initially thought the reveal would be that Tom is not Christopher, but now I really want Tom to actually be Scottie's son, and I would also love to see the look on Solomon's face once the connection is confirmed and revealed.  If I could be presumptuous and change one thing, I would change the timing of the Howard switch.  Scottie has referrenced the change in Howard's behavior more that once, what if Howard was switched put sometime ago, via the same Russian town or some other similar plot.

Unfortunately, the show doesn't seem to be doing well in the ratings, which is a shame because I really believe being saddled with The Blacklist tag, which prevented people from tuning in.  IMO, this show is much better than the mothership, but with my luck, Redemption will be cancelled and the mothership will go on for at least one more horrendous season.

[watch2much]

I agree.  I stopped watching the original Blacklist long ago.  Almost didn't watch this one but have become hooked.  Hope it makes it.

[Brian Cronin]

Since this show is obviously getting canceled, I just hope that they do a rare "resolve a canceled show's plots" episode in next season of the Blacklist (if THAT show even returns - luckily, NBC's shows are all doing so poorly that Blacklist probably gets at least one last season, even if it is a shortened season). 

Or maybe things will get resolved this season? That'd be fine, too. 

[Princess Lucky]

I say merge the shows. It's not like the Mothership is doing much better in the ratings. It's a dying show (which obviously didn't have the juice to fuel a spinoff). I'd hate to lose any cast members from The Blacklist, frankly, and I think I could only spare Dumont from Redemption (I like him but Aram is way better), so I don't know how it would work, but still.

Redemption has that spark the original lost somewhere along the way. At least I hope the writers get inspired by that, and have The Blacklist return to its batshit roots. With frequent guest appearances by Scottie and her Halcyon friends, hopefully.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[Brian Cronin]

I don't think a true merger would be feasible, but some Halycon guest spots could definitely be pulled off, if the actors wouldn't mind coming back for guest-starring bits. Although, I guess Solomon or Nez could be worked into Blacklist easily enough, as Tom has his own plots anyways, but Scotty is a tougher add, since she's a big enough star that adding her might be cost-prohibitive. 

I just want to see the whole thing get a real resolution now that their odds of coming back have become so slim. I like the show enough to want it to get a real ending. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Dad's upset that Tom's not a computer geek (It's Chinese to you!")

Mom is crazy- she'll choose power over the well-being of her long-lost son.

Does anyone think that Howard should just destroy Whitehall's research? Who knows who'll wind up with it next, and it will take time to replicate it.

Solomon is a good little soldier.

Edited April 7, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ottoDbusdriver]

At least it wasn't too predictable, but still on the dull side.

You knew it was going to be dismal episode when it contained too much Lizzie.  Special appearance by Megan Boone -- no thanks, I'll pass.

Hold on a minute -- in 3 hours, Tom drove from his house in DC (while visiting Lizzie on the downlow, no way he could get on a plane without being flagged by Dumont) to NYC, showed up for work at Halcyon, was taken into custody by Halcyon security, and beaten by Solomon for a while.

And in that same 3 hour time frame, Harold Cooper flew from DC to bust out Harold Hargreave from Fairhaven.

Scottie's assistant is banging Scottie's boy toy, and gets caught because of the old "accidental" phone switcheroo. Come on, that is just some lazy writing.

Whitehall gets nabbed by Halcyon security while debating the finer points of quantum computing in a hallway while making their escape -- that's as bad as Tom leaving the hospital room, and that woman bolted out the window -- was just ludicrous, since they already knew the alarm had been tripped.  Why not stop and make themselves a sandwich on the way out as well ?

I'm still waiting for the Redemption to happen -- still not seeing any.

[vb68]

Damn, they got me. I never guessed Whitehall was a dude.

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does anyone think that Howard should just destroy Whitehall's research? Who knows who'll wind up with it next, and it will take time to replicate it.

Yes, especially if it's really the end of privacy as we know it. From his description, ain't nothing good gonna come from that.

[mandigirl]

1 hour ago, vb68 said:

Yes, especially if it's really the end of privacy as we know it. From his description, ain't nothing good gonna come from that.

I'm starting to agree with the theory that Howard is the plant. He said that he was investigating the Whitehall file and when he got too close, Scottie tried to kill him. However, he didn't seem the slightest bit surprised that Whitehall was a person.  Also, when Liz was getting all sentimental he was far more interested in finding Tom than anything else. Could explain why he's keeping the research. 

This show has become a bit of mess IMO. Scottie, her work son Solomon and Dumont on one side and Howard, Tom and Nez on the other. To what end though? As other posters have said, I thought this show was about these characters seeking redemption, but I haven't seen it. All we've got is a lot of conspiracy theory nonsense and a 'team' that was mildly fun to watch now blown to bits. 

To end on a positive note, it was nice to see Cooper. Surprised that someone of his rank would travel to NYC to handle the situation personally. He could have sent Ressler!

[weathered1]

Chalk me up as another one who thinks that research should be destroyed. Good for the show for the twist that Whitehall is a guy - I didn't see that coming. 

I'm finding the Howard/Tom scenes to be really enjoyable - the actors play very well off of each other. Adding Nez into that mix was a good move, imo, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of that. 

I'm not a fan of Scottie's assistant or the entire storyline with the male prostitute, and I continue to find Famke's work a little uneven, which is surprising. 

Overall, I thought it was an entertaining hour of television, especially if I didn't think too much about what was going on in terms of the timing of everything (as ottoDbusdriver detailed above).

I do have to say that I found Liz's presence to be not just unnecessary, but detrimental to the momentum and flow of the scenes and the episode, as a whole. I confess that that's likely due at least in part to my dislike of the actress and her distinctly wooden nature, but she just doesn't play well off of anyone in scenes, and I've never wholly bought into the Tom/Liz dynamic (largely because of Boone's work, to be honest). If they need to keep Tom tied to the mothership, Agnes' existence does that. I know that mileage varies, but I hope that if this show gets another season, they sever his tie to Liz because I think all it does is hold the character back. 

[vb68]

15 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

and I continue to find Famke's work a little uneven, which is surprising. 

Agreed. Now that I've read that Christine Baranski turned the role down to continue on The Good Fight, I keep imagining her in the role, and boy Famke is lacking.  I agree the scenes with the assistant are very awkward.

Edited April 7, 2017 by vb68

[ItCouldBeWorse]

17 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Scottie's assistant is banging Scottie's boy toy, and gets caught because of the old "accidental" phone switcheroo. Come on, that is just some lazy writing.

That's why "Trevor" had to receive a company phone.  So this could happen a few episodes later.  I guess Halcyon employees are not allowed to buy their own phone cases!

The next time Solomon and Nez meet, the conversation will be awkward.

Edited April 7, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[saber5055]

Terry O'Quinn stole this episode. I don't care if he's real or fake dad, he's excellent on this show. What I don't get is Tom letting Solomon live. The guy beats him with Nerf balls in a sock (because why else isn't his jaw/face broken, or at least have a massive headache) and when Tom gets the drop on him, he just walks away w/o kicking Solomon in the face or breaking his arm? Anything? Tom strangled the innocent Harbormaster with his thighs! Yet Creep Solomon gets a free pass?I did laugh when Scottie jumped Tom. Yeah, stick-thin Scottie in dress and spike heels can take down assassin Tom. But then Tom turns dumbass again by just kicking her gun away and leaving instead of taking her gun with after kneecapping her. That's what John Reese would do. Mr. Reese also would have kneecapped Solomon ... or worse. Then Howard and Tom must have had some cash stashed in their money belts to buy all that stuff at Radio Shack, plus Tom used the RS bathroom to stick toilet paper on his face cuts. While Howard was explaining the Whitehall thing, all I could think of was Person of Interest writers must be working there now. I just wish they had written in Harold Wren AND Mr. Reese. And is "Agnes" the magic word that has to be repeated every episode? Answer: Yes.

[Princess Lucky]

Wait, Whitehall is Clarke Peters? Hell yeah!

I didn't see that coming at all. I had sort of predicted "Whitehall" would involve some type of "skeleton key" for the internet blah blah (we've heard it all before), but not that it would be a person (or a great actor). I liked that.

I always love seeing badass Tom, and this episode was no exception. And it was a treat to see Cooper. Liz, eh. It was only worth it for the smile on Tom's face when she mentioned Agnes's first steps.

Terry O'Quinn is amazing. He and Ryan Eggold do have very nice chemistry, all their scenes pop. I love that Nez is with them now, and I loved her reunion with Howard.

But I do agree that Howard is probably the "evil" one, between Tom's parents. There's gotta be another twist, right? At the beginning, they were a little vague, playing up Howard's paranoia to the point of almost selling the fact he may not be "all there" mentally, but they quickly gave up on that. And they've been showing Scottie as a terrible criminal (with a heart, but still). I can only assume that all is not what it seems.

I've really enjoyed Redemption (which contained no actual redemption, as many said above). I hope we get a big finish, and I'm sure we will. Out of the 7 episodes so far, there's only been 1 dud. That's a great run, in my opinion. This show was a treat.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[saber5055]

Didn't Nez toss a blaster into Whitehall's backpack to burn up all his research? I wondered why she didn't just shoot Solomon (there were SO MANY opportunities this episode) and take the backpack instead of leaving Solomon and taking off with Tom and Howard. I don't get the point of the assistant sleeping with the man hooker. So what? He's a businessman. According to Celebrity Apprentice, "It's nothing personal, it's just business." I did not know about the father/mother/AGNES reunion due to a world crisis national news event that preempted the beginning.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 minute ago, saber5055 said:

wondered why she didn't just shoot Solomon (there were SO MANY opportunities this episode)

I think she feels some loyalty towards him.  She chose Howard's side because of her prior relationship with him, but she's still not sure what the full story is, and Tom did betray their employer.

3 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I did not know about the father/mother/AGNES reunion due to a world crisis national news event that preempted the beginning.

I watched the beginning on the website this morning.

3 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Didn't Nez toss a blaster into Whitehall's backpack to burn up all his research?

She did explode something, but I think they still kept the bag, so not sure.

[Princess Lucky]

11 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Didn't Nez toss a blaster into Whitehall's backpack to burn up all his research? I wondered why she didn't just shoot Solomon (there were SO MANY opportunities this episode) and take the backpack instead of leaving Solomon and taking off with Tom and Howard. I don't get the point of the assistant sleeping with the man hooker. So what? He's a businessman. According to Celebrity Apprentice, "It's nothing personal, it's just business." I did not know about the father/mother/AGNES reunion due to a world crisis national news event that preempted the beginning.

I think they kept the actual contents of the bag, and they gave Nez just the empty backpack. That's why she "checked it" (to make sure it was empty?) before she put the grenade thing in there. I think I saw Tom holding on to the papers and a notebook as they were fleeing.

And I agree on the pointlessness of the assistant and the man hooker (lol). When the assistant said "his name is David" (or whatever) I was like, how dumb can you be? Was she rubbing it in Famke's face? Why? That said, I have noticed that this show is good with setting up callbacks (like the man hooker's company phone, or Nez's drug addiction) so I think that's all gotta lead to something. I doubt the point of that storyline is for the assistant and the man hooker to fall in love.

[calipiano81]

I enjoyed this episode. 

One question: When Howard first saw Richard Whitehall, they seemed to know each other. So even if Howard did not know what Scottie was up to with "Whitehall," why did it never occur to him that it would have something to do with this person?

[milkyaqua]

I was surprised that Whitehall was a person and it did seem that he and Howard knew each other.  I'm also getting the sense that Howard is going to be the bad guy in this.  I know Howard and Red didn't want Tom to tell Scottie that he was her son but we know Reddington doesn't exactly have the best of intentions when it comes to certain people so who knows what that's about.  Would he know that Howard was up to something no good?  I'm also still wondering if Tom is actually their son.

Scottie kicking Tom's but was funny but made me think, "Well, there goes any holiday dinners they might have had..."

I also didn't get Tom not kicking the crap out of Solomon but maybe he was thinking of the time, yeah, the time, that's it.

The assistant and the prostitute...  Unless the prostitute is somehow involved with Howard or someone else trying to take Scottie down, it's a dumb plot.

Good to see Harold.  Not so good to see Lizzie.

Wondering how this is going to wrap up next week (and I do hope they wrap it up instead of leaving a cliffhanger).  Wonder how Tom and Nez will come back into the fold otherwise I can't imagine what sort of storylines they can take this thing into that make any remote type of sense.

[calipiano81]

In general, I'm fine with Liz/Megan Boone, so I didn't mind seeing her. It's nice to see her smiling and I liked her scene with Howard.

[Surrealist]

I'm also in the camp of thinking that Howard is probably the evil guy. Not that I think Scottie is the better of the two, but I am waiting for the twist on the father. 

[pkincy]

There would be no point to the David/Hooker being there unless he ends up being central to the finale.   Also no point to his relationship with the assistant unless he has a real place in this.   And his relationship with the Assistant confirms that there is more to him just being a "pretty face" and a welcome distraction for Scottie.

[Happytobehere]

I'm really liking this show, so naturally it will get cancelled.

I am strangely invested in Tom and Solomon being friends and their  fight made me feel more than a little bit sad.

Even in small does Lizzie sucks, but she did serve a purpose in that something on Terry O'Quinn's face when he was talking to Lizzie convinced me that Scottie is the parent Tom should be placing his trust in.  This also makes me nervous that if Howard is not to be trusted, the reveal will be that Tom is not Christopher and as I stated before, although I initially thought this would be revealed to be the case, I am liking the chemistry with Tom, Howard and Scottie and am now in camp 'Let Tom really be Christopher.'

Looking forward to next week's season (hopefully not series) finale.

[Princess Lucky]

On 8/4/2017 at 1:44 AM, calipiano81 said:

I enjoyed this episode. 

One question: When Howard first saw Richard Whitehall, they seemed to know each other. So even if Howard did not know what Scottie was up to with "Whitehall," why did it never occur to him that it would have something to do with this person?

They really did. Whitehall especially, he looked like he totally knew who Howard was. But then they acted like strangers. Maybe they were faking it for Tom's sake?

15 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

Even in small does Lizzie sucks, but she did serve a purpose in that something on Terry O'Quinn's face when he was talking to Lizzie convinced me that Scottie is the parent Tom should be placing his trust in.  This also makes me nervous that if Howard is not to be trusted, the reveal will be that Tom is not Christopher and as I stated before, although I initially thought this would be revealed to be the case, I am liking the chemistry with Tom, Howard and Scottie and am now in camp 'Let Tom really be Christopher.'

Looking forward to next week's season (hopefully not series) finale.

I totally agree. Terry O'Quinn projected something almost like malice. Not much to do with paternal love. He did the same last week with Scottie, but I chalked that up to his "belief" that Scottie is a sleeper agent and not Tom's real mother. But with Liz, there was a distance. Compare Howard's sweetness when he was asking Tom about Agnes (a sweetness which was maybe fake, in retrospect) and his weird coldness to Liz. Scottie has never shown emotional coldness when it comes to her dead son, even when she's in a scene alone (so she wouldn't need to fake it).

I agree, I would like for Tom to be Christopher and for him to be related to at least Howard or Scottie ("at least" as in, "considering the other may be a replicant"), but I don't know what to think right now. Maybe Howard and Whitehall have bad intentions and Scottie really wants to stop them? It seems that Howard lied, and knew what (who) Whitehall was, but Scottie didn't? Could this be Scottie's redemption, just in time for the finale?

I do really enjoy this show. If this is the end, I'll miss it. And I think The Blacklist will feel even more boring now, by comparison.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[calipiano81]

Quote

I totally agree. Terry O'Quinn projected something almost like malice. Not much to do with paternal love. He did the same last week with Scottie, but I chalked that up to his "belief" that Scottie is a sleeper agent and not Tom's real mother. But with Liz, there was a distance. Compare Howard's sweetness when he was asking Tom about Agnes (a sweetness which was maybe fake, in retrospect) and his weird coldness to Liz. Scottie has never shown emotional coldness when it comes to her dead son, even when she's in a scene alone (so she wouldn't need to fake it).

Hmm...Howard as the bad guy/ master manipulator in the end seems like the type of twist this show would do, but I don't know. To me, any distance Howard might have conveyed towards Liz (though he did thank her for making Tom happy) wasn't any different than the emotional distance he has kept with Tom this whole time. He's never acted very fatherly other than the one time he asked about Agnes.

And somehow, the fact that Howard doesn't try to act all fatherly with Tom makes me want to believe he is what he appears. Because if he was really trying to manipulate Tom and turn him against Scottie, that would have been an easy way.

Quote

Maybe Howard and Whitehall have bad intentions and Scottie really wants to stop them? It seems that Howard lied, and knew what (who) Whitehall was, but Scottie didn't?

Scottie definitely knows what Whitehall is...there wouldn't have been the need to have Tom tortured if it were otherwise.

[Johnny Dollar]

I don't know what mode of transportation these shows use to travel from D.C. to NYC, but they really need to make it available to us regular folk. Lizzie gives Howard Tom's secret message and he meets up with him in the NY comic book store before the next commercial break. 

I also love the way these super secret firms like Halcyon have all these unbelievable tools at their disposal that can locate a co Llewelyn off the frid homeless guy in Central Park, until the story dictates that they can't do that at all. And if Halcyon is such a major player in the defense industry, what was up with going after Lizzie and Tom last year?  Seems a little dangerous to risk your contracts by free-lance murder and kidnapping for some rando terrorist group. Or whoever it was who wanted the dead back then. I don't even remember at this point, but I'm sure one of Lizzie's many parents was involved. 

[Princess Lucky]

12 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Scottie definitely knows what Whitehall is...there wouldn't have been the need to have Tom tortured if it were otherwise.

You know, I was under the impression Scottie was torturing Tom because she was trying to find out what Whitehall was (she thought Howard had told Tom, and she wanted to get that information), but you might be right. In retrospect, I'm not at all sure of my opinion, heh.

And I do agree that making Howard the bad guy would be obvious, and his paranoia/justified determination would be valid reasons for his distant behavior, sometimes. I just think that Scottie as a villain is even more obvious. I would buy Howard as having good intentions, but Scottie's arc kinda needs a twist.

Unless there's a third option. A common enemy, maybe? And both Howard and Scottie are (sort of) good? And they can have a family reunion with their son Christopher? While Howard calls Scottie a raging bitch? I'd watch that show, too.

[Guest]

I think I'm all alone here, but I don't like the Scottie character at all. I haven't seen the actress on anything else, but I think she's about as good as Boone, take that however you choose. I don't think the character can redeem herself after tonight's behavior,  and I don't think the actress playing her can sell me any storyline. I love Tom, but I hope they cancel this show.

[TobinAlbers]

The twist with Howard wasn't that surprising nor that the male companion was in on it - but damn was he ruthlessly brutal! Not only physically but getting in the personal digs.

For a split second I thought it might be Solomon coming back to take out Tom since it was the anniversary of his nearly killing Liz aka Agnes' birthday, but glad it wasn't since it'd have totally ruined his parting speech. Love that he and Nez still have their subtext thing going on even as she is embraced by Tom as an adopted sister (awwwww). Seriously this show has one screwed up but complex family vibe.

Sorry Scottie, you burned the ' I love my son' cred when you knowingly had Tom tortured by Solomon even after the news that he was your son. Tom sure as hell has reason to not allow himself to be manipulated by you. His now having independent info that reveals the truth about Howard allows him to look at you a bit more objectively.

But you know they're now going to try to play it that Scottie has a right to be miffed at Tom for his betrayal when she did him dirty first. They should call it water under the bridge and start anew with trying to take Howard down. I am intrigued to see the development of grandma Scottie doting on Agnes and being a not so warm mother in law to Liz. Heh.

I hate when bubble shows end with a finale that sets up the next season so beautifully. Howard in power as the ultimate villain and playing chess with Scottie and Tom as he goes for world dominating is a show I'd like to see. As it stands, Howard is more likely to be a multi-episode Blacklister on the mother ship for Red to have the honor of taking down. I'd much rather let Tom, Nez, Solomon, and Scottie continue to handle their business in their show. Fingers crossed!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If you allow your son to be brutalized, you don't love him as much as you think you do. Of course, Howard was also putting Tom in constant danger.

I've idly wondered if Howard had Christopher kidnapped to hurt Scottie, while somehow keeping track of him through the years. He never told Tom how he located him, correct? Nor do we know how Red knew his true identity?

When Tom was in the floor, holding Scottie from behind, the vibe was still weird.

Guess Tom won't be at Agnes' party.

Edited April 14, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Just my 2 cents]

I was right and it was a mercy kidnapping.  Both of his parents are awful!  As a matter of fact I was hoping it would turn out that Tom wasn't their son.  I really wish they would have done this spin off when TBL live ratings were higher.  It's a fun show.  The end kind of reminded me of TBL when it first began.  Of course, I suppose over time it gets difficult to create constant intrigue on show that has over 20 episodes a season.

Edited April 14, 2017 by ally

[vb68]

I thought it was a pretty good finale full of action and twists. Very fun. I wasn't sure which side was ultimately going to win at the very end as I think we all saw the final twist with Howard coming.  I kept thinking thinking somebody was gonna die like Howard or more likely Nez.  The only thing I knew for sure was Solomon was escaping with relative ease. Maybe he can get a spinoff of a spinoff.   I hope that is the last we see of the horribly stiff and stilted assistant. Her acting was really not good.  

I also think this will be resolved on the mothership.

1 hour ago, TobinAlbers said:

I am intrigued to see the development of grandma Scottie doting on Agnes and being a not so warm mother in law to Liz. Heh.

Like Red will let her get within 10 feet of Agnes.

 

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Guess Tom won't be at Agnes' party.

 He'll make it home. I can already see the scene of him sobbing to Lizzie. "What did I do?"

Lastly, they waited too long to introduce Clarke Peters.  The guy only makes every show he's in like 100 times better.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ryan Eggold discusses B:R on Build

[ottoDbusdriver]

I found the finale to be really ......  disappointing.  The only really positive aspect was that there was no Lizzie.

For starters, I'm still waiting for the redemption aspect to kick in.  Certainly not for Solomon as he was casually murdering guys that were already lying on the floor.  And the redemption is not keeping me warm -- contrary to the song playing in the end scene.

What I found baffling is that Tom et al allowed Scottie's assistant to wander around unmonitored after taking the Halcyon building.  WTF was that about ?

Hiring the drug dealer and his henchmen was just plain stupid.  How would the drug dealers have any idea what those gems were worth ?  Better yet, where did Howard get these gems (taufite ??) from ? 

Solomon shooting the glass with Scottie right behind the glass was ridiculously stupid.  Scottie should be dead, or injured at the minimum, yet only Gary the board member was injured by glass.

Where did the guys with the acetylene torches come from on a moment's notice ?  Is that standard kit for a drug dealer these days ?

Whitehall and the stationed-next-to-the-cargo-elevator plot-convenient defibrillator kit -- seriously, that is not how elevators works.

If the building -- the entire building -- is on emergency power, why were all the lights on in the parking garage ?

What confused me more is that the opening scene of the episode I had no idea that was Scottie's assistant.  How did she know where Tom lived ? How did she know that he would even be home ?  How close was the apartment where boytoy lived relative to Tom's apartment ?  Does this mean Scottie's assistant is going to be the big bad for S2 now that she has murdered someone and will turn all evil ?  Worst doorman ever at Tom's building who let a woman covered in blood wander into the building.

Solomon's Moby Dick moment really added nothing to the episode.

Why did the FBI do the interrogations at Halcyon ? Why didn't they do all that back at FBI Building in New York ?

Even more confusing -- the machine that Scottie and Solomon saw was smaller than the machine that Howard was looking at with Whitehall.  So did Howard build a fake machine for Scottie but build the real thing for himself ?

I don't buy that Scottie's assistant was able to overpower and kill boytoy after being stabbed in the gut, and stabbed in the shoulder, and not appear to be in any pain and yet had no problem swinging that candlestick two-handed.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Hiring the drug dealer and his henchmen was just plain stupid.  How would the drug dealers have any idea what those gems were worth ?  Better yet, where did Howard get these gems (taufite ??) from ? 

And if they are worth what Howard said, why care about selling Nez future drugs?  That's petty cash!

 

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Solomon shooting the glass with Scottie right behind the glass was ridiculously stupid.  Scottie should be dead, or injured at the minimum, yet only Gary the board member was injured by glass.

Yes, wouldn't you shoot at the floor, in a corner?

 

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Worst doorman ever at Tom's building who let a woman covered in blood wander into the building.

Yup. 

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I don't buy that Scottie's assistant was able to overpower and kill boytoy after being stabbed in the gut, and stabbed in the shoulder, and not appear to be in any pain and yet had no problem swinging that candlestick two-handed.

She sure did a good job making sure "Trevor" doesn't resurface.  But how stupid was she not to voice her suspicions about him to Howard or Tom!  Did she think he was just going to confess? 

I suppose she didn't know about Chekhov's ice pick.

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Solomon's Moby Dick moment really added nothing to the episode.

It show's he's a literate torturer.

 

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Even more confusing -- the machine that Scottie and Solomon saw was smaller than the machine that Howard was looking at with Whitehall.  So did Howard build a fake machine for Scottie but build the real thing for himself ?

That's my guess.  The scientist who claimed to be in Scottie's employ was lucky that Solomon didn't just shoot him.  There's no rhyme or reason as to whom Solomon puts down, except service to the story.  For instance, instead of holding back due to some lingering fondness for Nez, it would make more sense to just shoot her both as a traitor, and as someone whose abilities might come back to haunt him.

Edited April 14, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[milkyaqua]

The epi pretty much did what most of us thought with Howard being the big bad.

I was not surprised at Tom turning Scottie over to the FBI because, you know, the torture thing. Or that Scottie's boy toy was working for Howard.

Solomon getting away also was not surprising.

Hiring random drug dealers to back your play is pretty dumb but there are always dumb things done on TV shows and movies so I pretty much just accept it even if I'm rolling my eyes at the same time.

It'll be interesting to see how Tom et al try and take down Howard.  Although, yes, I can see having Red do it.  I'm still curious as to why both Red and Howard were set against Tom telling Scottie he was her son.  Does Red know what Howard's up to?  Obviously, neither of these people is going to be up for parent of the year but that is still curious to me.

Not sorry to see the assistant gone but yes, boneheaded movement of all boneheaded movements is confronting the person you suspect of betrayal and not expect to get stabbed or shot or murdered in some way.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, milkyaqua said:

Not sorry to see the assistant gone but yes, boneheaded movement of all boneheaded movements is confronting the person you suspect of betrayal and not expect to get stabbed or shot or murdered in some way.

Maybe she didn't want to admit that she had been sleeping with Scottie's gigolo.  However, at least the phone swap made sense.  Although, shouldn't the password protection/encryption on her phone have been better, so that Trevor couldn't even get into it, much less make payments from a Halcyon account? Did Howard have a back door for that, too?

Now I'm recalling times on The Blacklist when people have done stuff on their lover's laptops during an assignation: Samar to Ressler and Aram to his "girlfriend".

[Princess Lucky]

I loved the finale. It lived up to its hype, and it gave the perfect amount of closure while also setting up a potential (but unlikely?) season 2.

This was seriously some solid storytelling. I have to applaud this show for managing to shift its narrative in just 8 episodes without feeling uneven. This all started as a procedural action show, with the promise of an arc (Howard's crazy claims), but in all the standalone episodes the writers managed to plant the seeds which led to the central mystery (even Nez's addiction storyline wasn't there just to set up her loyalty to Howard, but to provide them with a team for the finale). And the last few episodes were totally serialized, which felt like the culmination of this entire story, without feeling like a change of format. Well done.

The "twist" of Howard being evil was predictable (as we all said last week) but the way they did it, that frame-up, that was so good. Even Solomon doubted Scottie. And I agree that Tom (in the moment) did the right thing in not believing her. Tom didn't hurt her, he technically handed her to the authorities. I loved that (slightly inappropriate, unnecessarily whispery) moment, when she tried to take a swing at him, and he just held her. I can't wait to see what he'll do now that he knows the truth.

Speaking of a possible S2, the assistant and the boytoy need to both be dead. In fact, the one thing the assistant did right was make sure the guy was dead, instead of hitting him once and then fleeing. What she did wrong was not go to the authorities with that memory stick. Didn't she have it already, when she confronted David (or whatever)? Isn't the point to get Scottie released? Oh and I can't believe Scottie didn't immediately suspect that guy. He was the only one who had access to both her and her secretary's devices.

Anyway. The writing was mostly (and surprisingly) good, but the actors really made this show work. I mean, this was such a great role for Terry O'Quinn. He was amazing throughout, and you could tell he had so much fun with it. These great actors, sometimes they're wasted on network procedurals, in generic roles that go nowhere. This role did TOQ justice, and I'm happy for him. On that same note, Solomon's monologue was so pointless but also so well-delivered (and a perfect temporary ending for the character). Again, a role that did the actor justice. And the Nez and Tom relationship was truly the highlight of this entire season, in the end. So heartwarming, and it's all because of those two actors, working off of each other in an easy, natural way.

Lastly, I hesitate to say this (because it's sacrilege), but especially in light of this finale, this show really ended up reminding me of Person of Interest (except the Redemption writers switched from procedural to serialized within, like, 5 episodes instead of 3-ish seasons). I'd love to see Terry O'Quinn's Howard meet Michael Emerson's Harold Finch. And Tom/Ryan Eggold would make for an excellent Man in the Suit replacement.

I enjoyed every minute of this show, and that's more I could have asked for. I'm glad NBC went ahead and made it. It gave us 8 fun weeks.

[Happytobehere]

16 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

The twist with Howard wasn't that surprising nor that the male companion was in on it - but damn was he ruthlessly brutal! Not only physically but getting in the personal digs.

For a split second I thought it might be Solomon coming back to take out Tom since it was the anniversary of his nearly killing Liz aka Agnes' birthday, but glad it wasn't since it'd have totally ruined his parting speech. Love that he and Nez still have their subtext thing going on even as she is embraced by Tom as an adopted sister (awwwww). Seriously this show has one screwed up but complex family vibe.

Sorry Scottie, you burned the ' I love my son' cred when you knowingly had Tom tortured by Solomon even after the news that he was your son. Tom sure as hell has reason to not allow himself to be manipulated by you. His now having independent info that reveals the truth about Howard allows him to look at you a bit more objectively.

But you know they're now going to try to play it that Scottie has a right to be miffed at Tom for his betrayal when she did him dirty first. They should call it water under the bridge and start anew with trying to take Howard down. I am intrigued to see the development of grandma Scottie doting on Agnes and being a not so warm mother in law to Liz. Heh.

I hate when bubble shows end with a finale that sets up the next season so beautifully. Howard in power as the ultimate villain and playing chess with Scottie and Tom as he goes for world dominating is a show I'd like to see. As it stands, Howard is more likely to be a multi-episode Blacklister on the mother ship for Red to have the honor of taking down. I'd much rather let Tom, Nez, Solomon, and Scottie continue to handle their business in their show. Fingers crossed!

I love this entire post.  It sums up how I feel so perfectly.  I'm really liking Redemption and hope NBC renews it, but not for the twenty something episodes that have only served to drag down the mothership, but maybe for like 16 episode where each season can be set up as two eight episode arcs.

[willco]

So I was really tired last night and fell asleep and only woke up for about the last 5 minutes. I liked the show alright and I was interested to see Terry O'Quinn again. Was this the finale as in it's just a limited series or is it coming back ? I'm wondering if I should even watch the episode if it's not returning. I didn't read anything about it yet, was last nights episode good ? I have limited time this weekend and quite a bit recorded to watch already. Thanks for any advice.

[PamB]

5 hours ago, willco said:

So I was really tired last night and fell asleep and only woke up for about the last 5 minutes. I liked the show alright and I was interested to see Terry O'Quinn again. Was this the finale as in it's just a limited series or is it coming back ? I'm wondering if I should even watch the episode if it's not returning. I didn't read anything about it yet, was last nights episode good ? I have limited time this weekend and quite a bit recorded to watch already. Thanks for any advice.

So maybe read the above posts and you may find some answers. 

[djinn]

Tom does have horrible, horrible parents! The finale was fine, with lots of twists, and kept changing directions constantly. Tom is going to feel so, so utterly used by his old man, who launched everything simply to get Whitehall released.

Nez became surprisingly likable as the episodes progressed, and Solomon's casual killings were a good callback to the Solomon on The Blacklist.

[calipiano81]

I've liked Howard more than Scottie this whole time, so I kept hoping that Howard wouldn't turn out to be the bad one, that perhaps it was a third party trying to create havoc at Halcyon. But as this finale went on, it kept feeling inevitable that it would be the case.

I'm going to miss this show. I did not expect to like it as much as I have. I wanted to find out more about the circumstances behind Christopher's disappearance and fake murder, but I am still satisfied if this is the end of the series.

 

My one thing about this episode: I know it serves a story purpose, but it didn't make sense for Kat to go to Tom after she was attacked (Dumont would have been a more likely choice). As far as she knows, Tom is on Howard's side. The show should have had Tom and Kat interact more, at least briefly, throughout the eight episodes if they wanted to set up the idea that Kat believes Tom can be trusted.

Edited April 15, 2017 by calipiano81

[Just my 2 cents]

47 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

I've liked Howard more than Scottie this whole time, so I kept hoping that Howard wouldn't turn out to be the bad one, that perhaps it was a third party trying to create havoc at Halcyon. But as this finale went on, it kept feeling inevitable that it would be the case.

I still like Howard more,  but it's probably because I like Terry O'Quinn so much.  Someone posted this on another episode,  but can you imagine him playing opposite Christine Baranski?   Can you imagine Christine Baranski playing her role alongside James Spader on TBL?  It would have been a totally different show, I imagine I would have cared about the younger characters even less.

Edited April 15, 2017 by ally