The Blacklist: Redemption - General Discussion

[vb68]

I agree it was miles better than the pilot. I guess with all the intros done and premise set up, they could get down to business. Both Scotty and Tom are good leads for a show. And I thought this ep did a good job of giving Scotty some depth. Though the lack of tension between Tom and Solomon was a little glaring.  I'm still not buying Tom would ever willingly put up with him.

I did love Tom's reactions watching the daughter who thought she was a singer.

[dwmarch]

On 2/26/2017 at 3:01 PM, mandigirl said:

 I was seriously wondering what the #$%^$# was wrong with the writers with the whole incest undertone, but I see from this board that its supposed to be funny! Even knowing that it is apparently being played for laughs (?) I can't say that I understand the joke?

It's their sandbox, I just poop in it. The incest angle has been there from the beginning and as I recall Tom found Scottie just as compelling as she found him up until he found out she was his mother (and hence why he was so mad at Red at the end of that episode). I don't know why the writers decided incest was something these shows should explore and I'd be as happy as anyone if they just forgot about it. But as far as the characters go, it's always been there. Hence my hopes that if they absolutely must include it they do so in a humorous manner of awkward sitcom situations. Because while this series might be an order of magnitude beyond the series that spawned it, Game of Thrones this show is not.

[Johnny Dollar]

They should have made this a Tom Keen and Mattias Solomon only buddy cop/spy comedy. 

Mrs Dollar calls bs on Scottie not being able to recognize Tom as her son, even 30 years later. Doesn't say much about her presumed skill set. 

I find this show goes by much quicker than its parent, for some reason. I blame Lizzie. 

I thought they'd start each episode with a call from Tom to Lizzie. "Hi hon. Still stuck at work with my mom. Can you get Agnes at day care today?"

If Scottie had someone she knew inside Fake-Istan, why wasn't that her first solution rather than the convoluted mirrors in a truck trick?  

I have yet to see any signs that anyone is try to gain Redemption for anything. Maybe Mattias feels just a little guilty for trying to murder baby Agnes?

[buttersister]

Meh. I'd agree with the idea that this would have been much better if these characters weren't tied to that other show. Also, how many heroes with parent issues am I supposed to gaf about? (So far, the number is zero.)

[Happytobehere]

I know the after the first episode, I said the show would ultimately reveal that Tom is not Scottie's son.  However, after watching this episode, I don't want that to happen.  I want Tom to be her son and see how the show works towards her finding out the truth and how that impacts their relationship.  

While I agree with others that a problem is the connection to the dreadful The Blacklist, I also saw the opportunity as Princess Lucky said, for the emotional resonance that is lacking on TBL due to bad acting to be present and be a real driving force on this show.  Add Terry O'Quinn to the mix every so often and you have the opportunity for the show runners to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat that is The Blacklist.  I'm hoping the show does well because I already like all of the characters in Redemption where I actively dislike the vast majority of the characters on TBL.

As for the case of the week.  I never doubted that Kevin was a spy, just as I never doubt the real Americans who get caught in random foreign countries are spies.  This is a reality of the world we live in.

[misstwpherecool]

It's turning into the caper of the week. And yes the organization/company intro last year leaves a bad taste which many will not over come. Is this why we didn't get that epi on a Blacklist rerun because we were supposed to forget it?

It has potential and I get they trying to make all the characters more likable but one can only do so much with sociopath. Also the scope and capabilities of the company seemed to have been toned down a little.  They did show that at least the government pulls the leash on them once in a while.

Have they shown or dropped any clues to the grand plan alluded to in the first epi?

[misstwpherecool]

Did I see a promotion for an epi about a training site for Russian sleeper spies/sleeper agent the same week "The Americans" premieres?

I hope they're trying to catch that wave rather than give us an epi filled with political subtext.

[PDIDDY]

I like a good spy caper with all the different takes on the available tech, and prefer a show that sticks to just varying jobs before eventually dragging itself down with backstory writing.  And for these characters I get the feeling they're all just feeling each other out and we'll see their true selves sooner than later.  At least I hope so.  That is if I stick with it because when I was a boy of 8-12 or so I watched the local version of WWE called Atlantic Grand Prix Wrestling.  Every week there was a tag team match.  Good guys vs Bad guys.  Each week the bad guy not in the ring would sneak in and try to double team the good guy.  Each week the good guy on the outside would come in to help out.  Each week the ref would break them all up and escort the good guy back to his spot outside of the ring and give him a lecture.  Each week during this lecture the 2 bad guys would continue to beat on the one good guy and/or one of them would take a 'foreign object' out of their shorts and hit/cut the good guy in the face and make him bleed.  Then the ref would come back the bad guys would pin the good guy and win.  Even as an 8 year old I knew this was coming every week and it was frustrating that the ref ALWAYS kept his back to the action.  40 years later and you want me to believe that this group of superspies would pull the weak ref move not once but TWICE?!  Because I'll tell you I'm much less patient now than I was then.  I'll give it a couple more weeks because I liked the original versions of Tom and Soloman, but 3 strikes it this show is out of my rotation.

[Ottis]

This show just isn't right, yet. There isn't a real emotional connection between the characters or the mission of the week. It feels tedious. 

Alias was more fun. Original Blacklist is darker. Not sure what this is.

And telling the family the guy is safe before he is out of the country? Dumb. 

Called the CIA connection for the journalist from the start, during the confession. 

Dumont irks me for some reason. 

Will give it a few more episodes. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

Dumont irks me for some reason. 

"Sweet cheeks,"  maybe?

Edited March 7, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Ottis]

14 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

"Sweet cheeks,"  maybe?

As in assless chaps? I don't know what that quote means. I think it's his voice and his eyebrows. And demeanor, in the sense of he seems mildly disinterested. When we cut from Tom to Solomon to Scottie ... and then to Dumont, the show seems to slow. YMMV.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

16 hours ago, Ottis said:

Dumont irks me for some reason. 

"Sweet cheeks,"  maybe?

 

9 minutes ago, Ottis said:

As in assless chaps? I don't know what that quote means. I think it's his voice and his eyebrows. And demeanor, in the sense of he seems mildly disinterested. When we cut from Tom to Solomon to Scottie ... and then to Dumont, the show seems to slow. YMMV.

That's what he called Nez (who I suspect would have punched anyone who called her that in person), when he was guiding her.  A guy who does that regularly to the only woman operative would irk me, too, although we only heard it once, and maybe she and he have an understanding about that.  If he used dopey nicknames for everyone, I would probably just consider it his "thing."

He was extremely agitated when trying to break the code on the kitchen exit door. I guess he does care...

Edited March 7, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Danielg342]

If this show didn't have that stupid conspiracy angle, it'd be the best show on television. Bar none.

As soon as Howard prattled on about how Scottie was likely "replaced" in that same Independence, U.S.A. program I rolled my eyes. I also began thinking, "maybe it's not such a bad thing this show might not be on for so long...because it'll be over before it gets stupid."

I wish I could have done that with The Mothership.

As for this episode...I'm sure if I really thought about it I could pick apart the flaws and the plot holes I'm sure exist. However, this was so frenetic and deliciously weird that I overlooked a lot of that. The idea of Independence, U.S.A. is certainly intriguing...it's far-fetched, but I think it could work. I'd imagine they'd have loftier goals than just hijacking a bunch of C-4 to blow up a federal building...like maybe replacing members of Congress.

...or...some executive...that could already be a plant of the Russians...but this isn't the thread for that.

Anyway, seeing Nez kick some ass was fun. Bank teller guy, did you really think you'd get away with sexually assaulting Nez? Seriously bro. It was also funny that- like the rest of the Russians- he had no clue what the U.S. was actually like. "Is Akron close to Canton?" Of course it is, dumbass!

Oh, and Solomon shooting up the van after his "failed" attempt at negotiating...man, that was priceless.

Episode Grade: A-. Overall, this episode was gold. Pure gold. The Scottie conspiracy threatens to bring this show down though.

[vb68]

The show is getting better. I thought this plot was interesting and fun.  If anything, I kinda wish we could have seen Tom under deep cover in that Russian for longer than one episode trying to remain loyal to Lizzie.

That birthday party was like the most stressful actor's workshop  ever. Trying to keep the basic details of your character right while having to do some improv, too.

The end with Nez was sad.

If Scottie was a double, would she really be so desperate to find Christopher?

I can't help it. I keep waiting for Howard to bring up smoke monsters or something. Lol. 

[mertensia]

Bank teller guy was testing Nez; that was why he asked about how close Akron and Canton are. To see if she remembered.

These American style villages in Russia idea has been around since at least the 1970s if not 1960s.

That said their idea of typical American suburban life had me laughing. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

If this show didn't have that stupid conspiracy angle, it'd be the best show on television. Bar none.

As soon as Howard prattled on about how Scottie was likely "replaced" in that same Independence, U.S.A. program I rolled my eyes. I also began thinking, "maybe it's not such a bad thing this show might not be on for so long...because it'll be over before it gets stupid."

I wish I could have done that with The Mothership.

As for this episode...I'm sure if I really thought about it I could pick apart the flaws and the plot holes I'm sure exist. However, this was so frenetic and deliciously weird that I overlooked a lot of that. The idea of Independence, U.S.A. is certainly intriguing...it's far-fetched, but I think it could work. I'd imagine they'd have loftier goals than just hijacking a bunch of C-4 to blow up a federal building...like maybe replacing members of Congress.

...or...some executive...that could already be a plant of the Russians...but this isn't the thread for that.

Anyway, seeing Nez kick some ass was fun. Bank teller guy, did you really think you'd get away with sexually assaulting Nez? Seriously bro. It was also funny that- like the rest of the Russians- he had no clue what the U.S. was actually like. "Is Akron close to Canton?" Of course it is, dumbass!

Oh, and Solomon shooting up the van after his "failed" attempt at negotiating...man, that was priceless.

Episode Grade: A-. Overall, this episode was gold. Pure gold. The Scottie conspiracy threatens to bring this show down though.

Speaking of flaws and plotholes, I thought it was ridiculous when Tom confessed in the shower to his "wife" that he was married and that's why he couldn't have sex with her, and then he told her Lizzie's name.  For starters, why would he use Lizzie's real name and not make up some Russian sounding name ? Because he was supposed to be Russian.  How did he know that his "wife" wasn't testing him much like the dinner party ?

What was the point of doping them to make them more compliant yet overly aggressive (and giving them all a rash in the process) ?  No one else seemed to be exhibiting that level of aggression, and that seems counterproductive to the endgame of the infiltration.

Did Fiji water have a product placement deal ?  Those square bottles are pretty well associated with that brand.

I think the Russian military went WAY overboard with the amount of C-4 on that door.  Unless it was ersatz C-4, but all they needed to do was to pop the lock.  Because that door was so lightweight that Tom was able to easily lift it.

Why did an American plane crash in a remote location in Russia in the first place ?  It wasn't a massive commercial jet despite the fact that they showed that the inside was 6 seats wide, it was actually short-haul turboprop.  That made absolutely no sense.  There were approx. 16 windows along the fuselage, and assuming 1 row of seats per window that would have given it a capacity of 96.  Do the Russians allow American humanitarian workers onto their soil ? And what made even less sense was that Tom/Solomon appeared to arrive on the day of the crash, when it would have taken them at least a day to get there.

How come there were no mountains in the background when they were at the crash site ?  There were massive mountains everywhere, but it looked like the plane crashed into a corn field on the plains.   A noticeably unsinged cornfield -- it looked like they dropped that plane debris into the field, there wasn't even an impact crater from that blast.

They never did resolve how the Russkies were somehow magically blocking satellite surveillance, thus requiring the infiltration.  Because that seems like a much bigger deal.  Especially since they seem to have blown up the town and taken the satellite blocking tech with them.

Scottie having a super-confidential meeting with her assistant about Howard's super-confidential dealings in the middle of the hallway made no sense.

Were the other members of the NTSB team also on Scottie's payroll ?  Wouldn't they be asking who these new guys were unless they were also in on it ?

While Tom mentioned Lizzie, still no sign of her -- does he even bother to call her anymore -- let alone any mention of Agnes.  So, Tom has a new dog (that will also never be seen again).  Was the dog being recruited to replace an American dog ?

Scottie being a suspected Russian sleeper replaced some 30 years ago is biggest red herring ever.

I'm confused -- why would they leave dead bodies with suicide notes when those people were supposed to be driving the bomb ?  Wasn't that the whole point of the infiltration -- to make it look like homegrown terrorism ? That made no sense at all. 

Why would the Russians recruit people for this fake US town that didn't have potential to be used to replace Americans ?  Seems like a waste of time. 

Tom's "wife" showing up exactly where Tom/Nez went to boost that van was too stupid for words -- how would she know that's where he would be, let alone that she would need to bring a gun ?  And while she said they have ways of tracking us, how would the "wife" have access to that tracking data unless she was a plant ?  Which makes Tom's confession in the shower even stupider -- "they" should have killed Tom right then and there.

[Princess Lucky]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Was the dog being recruited to replace an American dog ?

Ha!

I am seriously loving this show. It's wild. It's not quality television in any literal sense, but it's so darn fun. I'm looking forward to it every week, and I genuinely feel sad it will only be 8 episodes long. Can't we keep it and forget about The Blacklist? It's going to be so boring to go back to that, after having so much fun for 8 weeks.

I love that there's always two things happening at the same time, but (unlike most shows) they're almost equally awesome. The b-story was a terrorist attack, know what I mean? And it ended in a triple execution? After a fun Solomon monologue? Damn. And, speaking of Solomon, "Let's get surgical"? I love him.

And I love Nez. I'm glad she got so many great moments, and we got to know her a little better. We knew she was a badass (which we saw again last night), but we saw a softer side to her, too. Tawny Cypress was so good. All the actors are bringing it, really, but this week it was her turn. When Tom was about to blow the door (awesome, by the way) and he asked "you ready?", she gave a delicious "hmmm" (as opposed to a normal nod). I love little touches like that. And their conversation in the elevator? Ryan Eggold sweetly showed how Tom is warming up to Nez, and Tawny Cypress showed that Nez appreciates that, but is still haunted by Howard's death. Lovely moment.

By the way, Nez is about 85% redeemed in my eyes. Solomon, say, 35% (but he makes up for it in style).

As for Tom/Ryan Eggold, he can really carry a show. I loved how it took him a minute to figure out his surroundings, and to suss out his "wife", but then he just turned it "on". That's my favorite aspect of him, how great he is with his cover identities. No wonder his "wife" was all over him. That said, I appreciated the Liz mention, and the way Tom flinched when another woman tried to touch him. When he's undercover, he'll go all in, but when it's real (because there were no cameras in that shower) he reacts as himself. He's loyal. I may not be Liz's number one fan, but I liked seeing that.

4 hours ago, mertensia said:

These American style villages in Russia idea has been around since at least the 1970s if not 1960s.

Exactly! This made for a very fun premise. I just loved the creepy element of that small town. How some people were more comfortable at it, and others slipped up more easily. You could feel an eerie tension in the air. Great performances by those "agents." And that random woman's nose job foreshadowing Nez's surgery was awesome. I loved how no one asked about it, simply because they couldn't. And the "twist", the fact their covers were real people? That was so cool. When Nez's "brother" showed up at the real guy's house and they had the same tattoo I cheered. Awesome all-around.  I almost got a sci-fi vibe out of it.

And Scottie may be a double? I laughed, but I also love the idea. I still think Howard may be unhinged, but that's a pretty awesome conspiracy theory, and it might change how Tom views Scottie, so I'm willing to  go with it for now.

[Danielg342]

6 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Scottie may be a double? I laughed, but I also love the idea.

There's also the intriguing idea that Howard is the double, or at least one. How messed up would Tom be to find out both of his parents were "replaced"?

[mertensia]

Well, it would mean Tom can skip any more Invasion of the Body Snatchers remakes.

[Just my 2 cents]

The show seems to be getting better.  The only problem is that it's pretty much the same stuff as many other shows.  It's no different than Blindspot, Taken, NCIS:LA, and many others.  Due to The Blacklist, I no longer care for solving the mystery of the characters past, but enjoy the action.  I really like Nez.  I was never a Tom fan, but thought with a new storyline that would change.  I no longer have a problem with him on this show, but I'm noticing that I really don't care about his character's storyline and past.  Ryan Eggold is a good actor, but I just don't care after watching Edi Gathegi.  I wanted to hate Solomon, but the actor is just too good.  You could say he gets all of the best lines, but it's the way he delivers the lines.  Sadly, he's become the James Spader of this show and the only reason I want to watch other than the character of Nez.  When they're not on I notice myself flipping channels.

As for the Christopher Hargrave storyline I'm not sure where to go with it and it bores me, but leaves us with several questions.  Either one or both of his parents is a doppelganger and possible Russian spy?  I guess that's supposed to ease the incest thing between him and Scottie if they choose to revisit it?  His mother, who orchestrated having a heavily pregnant woman abducted under gunfire although she knows the pain of losing a child, is borderline evil?  His father is a paranoid nut or crazy like a fox?  I'm beginning to think little Christopher's abduction and horrible life in the American foster care system was a mercy kidnapping. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by ally

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 3/10/2017 at 8:08 AM, Princess Lucky said:

Can't we keep it and forget about The Blacklist? It's going to be so boring to go back to that, after having so much fun for 8 weeks.

I could be onboard for that -- this show, despite its flaws, is way more entertaining than the mothership.

23 hours ago, ally said:

As for the Christopher Hargrave storyline I'm not sure where to go with it and it bores me, but leaves us with several questions.  Either one or both of his parents is a doppelganger and possible Russian spy?  I guess that's supposed to ease the incest thing between him and Scottie if they choose to revisit it?  His mother, who orchestrated having a heavily pregnant woman abducted under gunfire although she knows the pain of losing a child, is borderline evil?  His father is a paranoid nut or crazy like a fox?  I'm beginning to think little Christopher's abduction and horrible life in the American foster care system was a mercy kidnapping. 

Maybe everyone is a doppelganger -- and they just don't know it yet.  Dun, dun, dun, dun !!!!

Yeah, Scottie really has a LOOOOONG way to go to redeem herself.

Edited March 11, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[paigow]

This was like the episode of La Femme Nikita [Peta Wilson] where they found a whole "American Town" while searching for a US satellite that crashed in Russia.   Minus the clones

Edited March 11, 2017 by paigow

[Tony]

I couldn't stand Solomon when he was on The Blacklist but on this show he's my favorite character. His lines are awesome.

[Loandbehold]

The first time I came across an "American" town in Russia was in The Charm School by Nelson DeMille. Much like here, the occupants were supposed to only speak English. 

I also thought the bank manager / interviewer, was testing Nez when he asked how far Canton was from Akron. Also, if they were being drugged with something that made them more aggressive, why was Nez the only woman who reacted violently to the sexual harassment? And, if you are making dopplegangers, why are you making them aggressive unless you want them to replace soldiers?

Tom was stupid to break character with his "wife." 

[MostlyC]

I was thinking of the novel (NOT the film), the Bourne Ultimatum; they end up  in a small area in Russia with towns that are french, american, german etc where the KGB agents learned to pass at "regular folk."

Tom being married, being a family man, takes some of the fun out of the show.  

Scottie was bad-ass in the backdoor pilot; she's seems more "grieving unhinged mom."  Bring back the steely bad-ass.

[vb68]

Quote

Ryan Eggold is a good actor

And he can sell the action bits. When he was running from the crash zone to the "town", he honestly reminded me of The Six Million Dollar Man or something. Someone should give him an action movie.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Nez may have reacted more to the drug because she is borderline violent all the time but has great self-control, or because as an addict, she is more susceptible to the influence of drugs.

"Khakis and penny loafers", and the messed up groundhog day line involving "hedges" and "hog".

Tom should have already figured out a way to get some DNA off of Scottie to confirm that he is her son before Howard raised the sleeper Russian spy theory. He should also demand that Howard give him a swab if he wants Tom to continue working for him. Of course, Scottie might have created Tom with another man ( I have to say that Howard's absolute lack of paternal joy every time he sees Tom, not to mention the fact that he calls him Tom instead of Christopher makes me doubt that his mind is working properly more than anything else) and if Scottie and Tom don't match, it's far more likely that he's not Christopher than that Scottie was replaced 30 years ago.

The 4 DNA possibilities:

1) Tom matches with both, so he is Christopher and Scottie is Scottie

2) Tom matches with Scottie alone:  Scottie cheated on Howard, but Tom is Christopher and she is Scottie

3) Tom matches only with Howard: Tom is Christopher and Scottie has been replaced

4) Tom matches neither:  

  a) Tom is not Christopher and Scottie may or may not have been replaced or

  b) Scottie cheated on Howard and has been replaced

I would start with Howard's DNA, but since the original show has somehow never compared Liz and Red's DNA, even when Kirk had access to both and had a DNA test technician with him for the express purpose of comparing his own DNA with Liz's, I guess this will never happen.

Finally, the Russians scanned Tom's and Naz's handprints and who knows what else. Might they not now be in some Russian database that could then be used to detect them in a future Russian op, or are we done with Russia?

Edited March 12, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[mandigirl]

 I'm not invested in any of the characters here. I LIKE many (if not most) of the characters.  But this show has very little emotional core to it, which is ironic given its name. Tom has rarely mentioned his family since the pilot which is a huge continuity problem for me. Nez talks about her past drug addiction minutes before we see her relapse which is just lazy writing IMO.  Most of all, Solomon and even Nez were so dark in Blacklist, I expected A LOT more exploration regarding their motivation for going White Hat. 

So Solomon is working for Gray Division out of... gratitude/loyalty to Scottie for saving his life? The loyal mercenary (apparently he was very loyal to the Cabal too) is an interesting combo-- too bad three episodes in and we're given no context at all to Solomon's character. 

I have no words regarding the ridiculous twist in the conspiracy plot-line. I agree with Danielg342 and others that the conspiracy subplot is the Elizabeth Keene of this show, weighing down the other great factors. Hey showrunners! If you replace all the scenes about the stupid conspiracy with character development scenes (like that wonderful scene between Nez and Tom at the elevator), this show could truly be amazing. 

[DrScottie]

On 3/10/2017 at 6:38 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Speaking of flaws and plotholes, I thought it was ridiculous when Tom confessed in the shower to his "wife" that he was married and that's why he couldn't have sex with her, and then he told her Lizzie's name.  For starters, why would he use Lizzie's real name and not make up some Russian sounding name ? Because he was supposed to be Russian.  How did he know that his "wife" wasn't testing him much like the dinner party ?

Why even bother to make it up?  His wife's birth name is Masha Rostova. 

[Danielg342]

5 hours ago, mandigirl said:

Hey showrunners! If you replace all the scenes about the stupid conspiracy with character development scenes (like that wonderful scene between Nez and Tom at the elevator), this show could truly be amazing. 

Agree completely. It may be a broken record at this point, but what is hamstringing this show is the fact that they didn't just bring in Tom from the old series but also Solomon and Nez Rowan as well (as well as Scottie and Dumont, but Scottie was just a Blacklister and Dumont was just there for the backdoor pilot).

Nez, maybe they can get a pass on regarding her storyline, but Solomon? He was a prominent character for much of S3, and I bet if Edi Gathegi wasn't so well received as an actor, I'm not sure Solomon makes it to this series. I'm absolutely certain they at least promised to Gathegi that this is as much his starting vehicle as it is Ryan Eggold's, but so far they have done nothing of substance for Solomon and given Tom all the meat, and they need to rectify that soon.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It may be a broken record at this point, but what is hamstringing this show is the fact that they didn't just bring in Tom from the old series but also Solomon and Nez Rowan as well

Does anyone remember when Liz was begging with Nez not to separate her from Agnes? And Nez was simply a mercenary doing her job? How has working for Scottie redeemed her? Was she told that Liz was a danger to Agnes, or was she just working for the highest bidder? Are we supposed to forget all that? I actually thought that Mr. Kaplan should have shot her when she took Agnes from her.

ETA as per ally below:  "No, that was Romina, played by the actress Joselin Reyes.  Nez was in the last 3 or 4 episodes of TBL season 3, but not in season 4."

Edited March 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Danielg342]

25 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does anyone remember when Liz was begging with Nez not to separate her from Agnes?

Was that in Cuba, or the prelude to Cuba? All i remember Rowan as was as a generic mercenary during the CDC train plot.

I'll agree that a lot of what Rowan and Solomon do lack context. Even Tom to a certain extent. It's like the show thought that by making Solomon and Rowan main characters it's be enough to forget what they did before, when it doesn't. If they don't correct it soon, we could soon invoke the "Eight Deadly Words".

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Does anyone remember when Liz was begging with Nez not to separate her from Agnes?

Was that in Cuba, or the prelude to Cuba? All i remember Rowan as was as a generic mercenary during the CDC train plot.

Cuba.  Nez (as the woman mercenary) was holding on to Agnes until Mr. Kaplan got the drop on her.  Earlier, Liz was outside with Nez, begging her to let the two of them get away.

ETA as per ally below:  "No, that was Romina, played by the actress Joselin Reyes.  Nez was in the last 3 or 4 episodes of TBL season 3, but not in season 4."

Edited March 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Double V]

Was this an update of an unused script from a 1983 tv show?

[Just my 2 cents]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Cuba.  Nez (as the woman mercenary) was holding on to Agnes until Mr. Kaplan got the drop on her.  Earlier, Liz was outside with Nez, begging her to let the two of them get away.

No, that was Romina, played by the actress Joselin Torres.  Nez was in the last 3 or 4 episodes of TBL season 3, but not in season 4. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, ally said:

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Cuba.  Nez (as the woman mercenary) was holding on to Agnes until Mr. Kaplan got the drop on her.  Earlier, Liz was outside with Nez, begging her to let the two of them get away.

No, that was Romina, played by the actress Joselin Reyes.  Nez was in the last 3 or 4 episodes of TBL season 3, but not in season 4. 

I take your word for it.  Will have to rewatch.

Edited March 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[mandigirl]

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It's like the show thought that by making Solomon and Rowan main characters it's be enough to forget what they did before, when it doesn't.

Pretty much.  I'm not sure if they were hoping for mass amnesia, or they assumed that people watching BL:R weren't regular viewers of BL? Either way, the show is going for this aggressively slick, spy caper vibe to the point that it's almost shot itself in the foot. The show doesn't have to sideline character depth to be "fun" IMO. 

I wish the writers would stop trying to retconn, and instead lean into the characters' actions on BL.  Solomon shot up a church and threatened a baby just for starters. I'm tired of them hand-waving all these things so that Solomon, Nez, Tom and even Scottie can be recast as the 'good guys'.  I bet every single person on this forum has watched a show where the one-time enemy starts working with the good guys and it is FREAKIN. AWESOME. This isn't a new trope. Just get into it already. 

[Just my 2 cents]

42 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I take your word for it.  Will have to rewatch.

Sorry, don't completely do that.  Lol.  Her name was Joselin Reyes not Torres. 

Honestly, none of the characters is truly likeable.  This includes Tom.  Unfortunately, like TBL, they have one character that really stands out.  That character for me is Solomon simply for his witty delivery of lines much like Reddington.  Redemption is not that bad, it's just no different from several of the shows currently on tv and at least couple of them are on the same network, so the characters are going to have to be more likeable or mesmerizing to stand out.  I'll admit although he is evil, I'm only watching it to see Solomon at this point.  I so wish that they would have left him on TBL as one of the bad guys that turns up throughout the span of series.

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, mandigirl said:

I wish the writers would stop trying to retconn, and instead lean into the characters' actions on BL.  Solomon shot up a church and threatened a baby just for starters. I'm tired of them hand-waving all these things so that Solomon, Nez, Tom and even Scottie can be recast as the 'good guys'.  I bet every single person on this forum has watched a show where the one-time enemy starts working with the good guys and it is FREAKIN. AWESOME. This isn't a new trope. Just get into it already.

I personally believe the best written characters are the ones where you only know their ambitions and motivations, leading to a scenario where we, the audience, get to determine who's right and who is wrong. I never liked framing characters as "good" or "bad" because life is never like that- I'm a firm believer that we're all "heroes of our own stories".

Right now, all we've got are characters who have just "done things"- we don't know what is driving them.

[Princess Lucky]

16 hours ago, mandigirl said:

Pretty much.  I'm not sure if they were hoping for mass amnesia, or they assumed that people watching BL:R weren't regular viewers of BL? Either way, the show is going for this aggressively slick, spy caper vibe to the point that it's almost shot itself in the foot. The show doesn't have to sideline character depth to be "fun" IMO. 

I wish the writers would stop trying to retconn, and instead lean into the characters' actions on BL.  Solomon shot up a church and threatened a baby just for starters. I'm tired of them hand-waving all these things so that Solomon, Nez, Tom and even Scottie can be recast as the 'good guys'.  I bet every single person on this forum has watched a show where the one-time enemy starts working with the good guys and it is FREAKIN. AWESOME. This isn't a new trope. Just get into it already. 

I actually do have amnesia when it comes to about 75% of things that happened on The Blacklist, and I've always loved Tom (though I barely remember his backstory), so I guess I was the target audience, lol. I mean, every time someone here mentions Agnes, I'm like "Who? Oh yeah, the kid!"

But as far as Solomon goes, I don't think he's painted as the good guy (yet). More like, the bad guy who isn't a total jerk and is kinda fun to be around, but he won't hesitate to greenlight a triple execution, or "get surgical" or cut off people's heads because Scottie asked. I don't think we're meant to see him as a sweetheart. But "bad" or violent criminals, they don't have to be terrible people 100% of the time. Just because Solomon is fun to watch (thanks to Edi's performance), and is nice to Nez and Scottie (his friends), and jokes around with Tom (his frenemy), it doesn't mean his past is forgotten or retconned. Now, I'm sure he'll be more directly redeemed in the future (like Nez was, to a certain extent, with this episode), but until we know more, I think he's consistent with the Blacklist Solomon.

Personally, I think they wanted a spinoff with familiar faces, and they picked Solomon because Edi is a great actor, and people responded to him. That, plus there's built-in tension with Tom. Redemption hasn't touched on that explicitly, not too much, but I'm sure we'll get a Tom/Solomon episode all about it.

Not to mention, if we can (occasionally) root for Red, another criminal/bad guy, why not root for these people? Not that I'm rooting for anybody, I just think this show is well acted, fast-paced and fun to watch.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

If we can (occasionally) root for Red, another criminal/bad guy, why not root for these people?

That is true, although, to play Devil's Advocate, Red has, largely through James Spader's acting and "Cape May/The Artax Network" been very remorseful for the things that he has done. I would like to see that from Solomon, at least.

[K2DangerGirl]

On 2/26/2017 at 11:49 PM, Utpe said:

To me, this show feels like The Blacklist on speed.  Plus, the technological gizmos they use are pretty laughable.

Mr. Dangergirl and I have been calling this "Blacklist: Scorpion".

[Danielg342]

Blah. This was the first miss, which I can basically sum up this way:

Show, if you're going to go at a frenetic pace, have things blow up and give us some fights. Not talking. All that talking tonight just put me to sleep.

I did like that Brian Mayhew was innocent, so that was a nice twist. Oh, and Solomon and Tom "fighting" in the apartment...those two continually crack me up.

Which pains me to see Solomon being sent after Tom...I hope they can make up, not continue to fight.

Not sure I care enough to comment on Scottie's baby drama...that's just...yeah...

Episode Grade: C-. Some good moments at the warehouse, but this was way too talky!

[david gideon]

They showed a dossier on a guy named Leonid Something While talking about him as Victor Something. 

Isnt Lizzie starting to wonder where her hubby is by now?

[mertensia]

I laughed when Tom and Solomon started fighting and the cops just gave up and snuck away.

They need to give up ginormous black SUVs as their vehicles. I suggest Smart cars.

[mandigirl]

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Show, if you're going to go at a frenetic pace, have things blow up and give us some fights. Not talking. All that talking tonight just put me to sleep.

Seriously. So much happened and yet it was a strangely dull episode. I found myself checking out every time the conspiracy and mama drama storylines came on. Those storylines are dragging down the show and it felt like there was a supersize serving of them tonight. Couldn't care less about either one.

Speaking of random storylines, does the show need filler so much that it has resorted to... a love story between Scottie's boy-toy and her secretary?? I hope that storyline is actually going somewhere, like maybe "Trevor" is a plant or something. Sucks that even Scottie's paid lover is cheating on her. 

It took Tom and Nez about 5 minutes and an axe to crash the "super secure" computer-meeting thingy, lol.

Four episodes in, and we know very little about most of the characters in the team. All we get is that Nez is taking drugs (which everyone on the team should have noticed a mile away btw) and that Dumont has a brother. Three episodes running that Tom hasn't mentioned his daughter or made any on-screen effort to see her. This show could actually be good.  Another episode, zero character development. What a waste. 

On the plus side--

3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Oh, and Solomon and Tom "fighting" in the apartment...those two continually crack me up.

LOVED. This. 

[vb68]

Well the internet and 7 Keys was an interesting idea, but it got mucked down with all the other plots. Honestly I'm finding all the "Whitehall", Tom's background, Scottie's agenda, yada yada to be quite dense. There needs to be some payoff or at least some serious movement there very soon.

The very beginning, with James McDaniel out in the street acting like a cop, gave me flashbacks to NYPD Blue. It was shot that way too.

The best scene in the whole ep was indeed Tom and Solomon's racist improv act. 

Nobody notices Nez acting twitchy and constantly rubbing her nose?

This case in particular seemed like Tom could have coordinated with Lizzie.  I also don't know why he isn't talking through some of this mess of a triangle between him and his "parents" with her.

Can't stand Scottie's assistant. I can't tell if it's acting choice, but she's very stiff and awkward even in simple conversation. 

Trevor/Dan seems like a typical himbo no matter what he tells himself.

Edited March 17, 2017 by vb68

[dwmarch]

When I first heard about this show I was skeptical about the inclusion of Solomon. But they've made the best of it so far. That conversation in the apartment was hilarious!

I wasn't following the plot too closely so I missed how and why this unfolded. Who broke these dudes out of jail? Evil contractors? And they knew somehow that once Mayhew was out of jail he'd immediately make a beeline for that key ceremony?

Again I think Tom's life would be so much easier if he told Scottie he was her son, her husband was still alive and suffering some serious paranoid delusions and while some answers would be great he's been dealing with Raymond Reddington for the past four years so if we could just get this backstory bullshit over with please...

[mertensia]

I bet Trevor's being paid by Locke to spy on Scottie.

[milkyaqua]

11 hours ago, vb68 said:

The very beginning, with James McDaniel out in the street acting like a cop, gave me flashbacks to NYPD Blue.

Ha!  Yes, I was also hoping he wasn't the bad guy because I would have been bummed.

I could have quoted all of vb68's post honestly.

I also am wondering if Scottie's toy boy is some sort of spy and yes, probably for Tom's daddy.  Just how many people does he have spying on his wife?

I don't care about the Whitehall thing and I do think while it would make sense for Tom to just tell Scottie he's her son, between his dad and Red's warning to not tell her Tom's got to be hesitant but this nonsense can't go on forever.  Oh wait, I forget where this show comes from, of course it can go on forever.

Why is Nez a drug addict and how come no one notices it?

I hope Mr. Soloman and Tom don't have a falling out but there is a part of me that can't wait until Mr. Soloman reports back to Scottie about her husband still being alive and her private detective being in cahoots with her supposedly dead husband and Tom.  Unless Mr. Soloman decides he can work something to his advantage by not telling Scottie about any of it.

The major story was meh but it was nice that the accused wasn't guilty and that Mr. NSA got taken to some mystery place?  Also, a dark site in NYC?  Okay show, not that anything isn't possible but wouldn't they have better security at least enough to make people wonder what the heck is going on at that building in the first place?  Or... oh never mind I've lost my train of thought....