S02.E06: The Chicken

[OnceSane]

While Grace mentors a young woman seeking a new career, Frankie has conflicting feelings for Jacob, who wants more than a business relationship.

[OnceSane]

I really liked Grace's interactions with the young woman she mentored.  I particularly enjoyed both of them laying truths on the other.

Unf, Jacob is so damn hot!  Get on him, Frankie!  I can understand her hesitancy, but I'm glad she's willing to be brave. 

[maraleia]

June Diane Raphael is so damn hot and alluring. She's the best actor of all the kids and I love her interactions with Lily in the office.

[RCharter]

Meh -- I could have done without the "mentee."  It seemed a little ridiculous that this place would get a mentor as great as Grace, and waste her years of talent and experience by sending her a mentee with a bad attitude and no real drive or desire.  I would be completely turned off from the idea of ever mentoring anyone if you sent me someone with a piss poor attitude who had to be convinced to even try.  I sort of wished they would have had Grace mentor the young lady who had the initiative to try on her yellow jacket.  She seemed like she had more of a drive and desire and would have appreciated Grace getting her a job interview.  Either way, I was happy to have that lady off my screen by the end of the episode.

[zxy556575]

Yeah, what was the point of that? That Miss Piercings was talented in her own way and in the end didn't need the conservative business world? Okay, got it. Be an excellent bartender then. But who exactly was holding her dog hostage in order to force her to participate in the program in the first place?

While I didn't appreciate her wasting the charity's time and resources, I also didn't like that Grace seemingly gave up on the idea of mentoring after that one experience. She could use some other interests in life. (Although if her only plan was to funnel everyone to her old company, that's obviously not sustainable.)

Even though I'm enjoying the funny barbs everyone gets off at Brianna's expense at work, the place comes off as so unprofessional that I have to willfully let it not bother me.

[hnygrl]

I agree lordonia.  The way they treat the boss, the freaking CEO!!! Is scandalous and wouldn't happen in a real business setting. Can you see these assholes treating GRACE that way??? She'd fire their asses in a new your minute. I didn't like that at all. It's making wonder if it was a good idea or not to give the business to Brianna since she's so bad at it. Dating an underling. No. A thousand times no. I don't care HOW cute they are together, it's not "just not done" but pretty much illegal in the business world. If anything goes wrong Brianna could lose everything.

 

Now to talk about "the breakup"

The first time I saw it? I cussed Robert out through the TV. Geeze man, what the hell? REALLY Robert? When did the 20 plus year cheater get so damn stiff? I mean YOU did it and he forgave YOU...

But after watching the whole season and re-watching that scene? I get it.  I'd have done the same thing. It wasn't about the sex, it was who he had sex WITH. Sol's a real piece of work isn't he?

[Empress1]

On May 8, 2016 at 9:56 AM, lordonia said:

Yeah, what was the point of that? That Miss Piercings was talented in her own way and in the end didn't need the conservative business world? Okay, got it. Be an excellent bartender then. But who exactly was holding her dog hostage in order to force her to participate in the program in the first place?

While I didn't appreciate her wasting the charity's time and resources, I also didn't like that Grace seemingly gave up on the idea of mentoring after that one experience. She could use some other interests in life. (Although if her only plan was to funnel everyone to her old company, that's obviously not sustainable.)

Even though I'm enjoying the funny barbs everyone gets off at Brianna's expense at work, the place comes off as so unprofessional that I have to willfully let it not bother me.

I didn't understand that either. OK, if she's a good bartender, let her be a good bartender. There's money to be made there. If she didn't want a corporate job, she didn't need to start with the program at all. And I can't stand it when people conflate honestly with rudeness. The mentee was rude as hell, walking into someone else's house immediately talking shit.

I chuckled at "Love today's bra" because Brianna's shirt was unbuttoned damn near down to her belly button. I mean, of course he shouldn't speak to his boss that way, but also, button up at work. Also also, don't date your employees. If this is a serious relationship, he needs to quit. He has way more to lose than she does if it goes south.

[Julia]

On May 9, 2016 at 2:52 PM, hnygrl said:

Now to talk about "the breakup"

The first time I saw it? I cussed Robert out through the TV. Geeze man, what the hell? REALLY Robert? When did the 20 plus year cheater get so damn stiff? I mean YOU did it and he forgave YOU...

But after watching the whole season and re-watching that scene? I get it.  I'd have done the same thing. It wasn't about the sex, it was who he had sex WITH. Sol's a real piece of work isn't he?

He really, really is. And it kind of kills me that Grace, who whatever her failings was expected to be wonderwoman with no support of her own, is barely tolerated while Sol the imperfectly toilet trained has everyone tripping over themselves to wipe his butt. FFS, dude, you're a huge chunk of a century old. Quit dumping your mess in other peoples' laps. 

[hnygrl]

And where's the first place he goes when he's kicked out of his house? To his kids? No. He goes to FRANKIE. SERIOUSLY SOL? You haven't decimated her enough? You want to destroy the pieces now? And when did you become the victim here?

Oh he infuriates me....

Probably because I know people like him and to yell at them is like kicking a puppy. Nobody sees it but you. You have to wait until the rest of the crew catches up to where you are before anything gets done.

[JBC344]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:58 PM, hnygrl said:

And where's the first place he goes when he's kicked out of his house? To his kids? No. He goes to FRANKIE. SERIOUSLY SOL? You haven't decimated her enough? You want to destroy the pieces now? And when did you become the victim here?

Oh he infuriates me....

Probably because I know people like him and to yell at them is like kicking a puppy. Nobody sees it but you. You have to wait until the rest of the crew catches up to where you are before anything gets done.

Can we please keep this thread to what happened in the actual episode?  No spoilers please.  Thank you.

[Eeksquire]

Robert learning the prayers, and then thinking he was doing them wrong, just about killed me.  Of course, that might just be my reaction to sad Martin Sheen (I am coupling this show with a rewatch of the "MS years" of The West Wing.)

Also: I love Brianna.  I can't help it.  She's so inappropriate, and great.  Plus, I can forgive the silliness of the office environment, as this is technically a comedy and the stuff at her office is just a sideshow for Grace and Frankie's relationship.  I wouldn't mind seeing more of Brianna and Coyote though - the other two kids seem like total bores.

[ProudMary]

12 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

Robert learning the prayers, and then thinking he was doing them wrong, just about killed me.  Of course, that might just be my reaction to sad Martin Sheen (I am coupling this show with a rewatch of the "MS years" of The West Wing.)

Then you'll understand how my mind wandered to the Butterball Hotline as Robert was cooking poultry!  :D

[Crs97]

Quote

The first time I saw it? I cussed Robert out through the TV. Geeze man, what the hell? REALLY Robert? When did the 20 plus year cheater get so damn stiff? I mean YOU did it and he forgave YOU...

I don't think Robert ever cheated on Sol.  If you are thinking about that caterer, Sol and Robert were broken up at the time.  

I am tired of everyone dumping on Grace.  Is her self esteem so low that she assumes she deserves everyone's garbage?  I hope she finally gets to tell everyone off; I want to see her 40 years of anger show up and tell everyone to go to hell.  No wonder she drinks so heavily.

 

Or, as said so much better - 

Quote

And it kind of kills me that Grace, who whatever her failings was expected to be wonderwoman with no support of her own, is barely tolerated while Sol the imperfectly toilet trained has everyone tripping over themselves to wipe his butt. FFS, dude, you're a huge chunk of a century old. Quit dumping your mess in other peoples' laps. 

Thanks, Julia!

[wendyg]

I like Bud, actually. It's just the other sister I find kind of blah. Also, re Grace, I never understood how Robert could have frozen Grace's credit card in the first season - she had her own business! She'd have her own credit cards!

Personally, I think Robert's overreacting somewhat. Even when you're the one who lives, disentangling yourself from a 40-year marriage is hard and emotionally complicated. In that situation, you'd be better served by looking at progress over time, not expecting everything to be perfect all at once. Sol was *very* interdependent with Frankie, and unwinding that takes time.

[hnygrl]

SO true wendyg! People tend to forget: Sol and Grace were in separate bedrooms, and probably hadn't had sex that often since after their youngest kid was born.

Sol and Frankie were SOULMATES. They've been each other's only since the day they met. Frankie couldn't sleep one night without him. In 40 years of marriage, they very rarely slept apart, and had a very rich, very active sex life for those 40 years. So for Sol to slip up and sleep with the woman he's loved with (the greater majority of) his whole heart for 4 decades, in the home they made together, with the children they raised into men there just moments before? It was totally to be expected and completely forgivable.

I always thought Robert was spoiled, entitled, and stiff necked. It's okay for him to go out and do the things he does but if anybody else in his world dares to? Get. Out. Now. Unforgivable.
 

I think Robert should've been given a pass for that one.

[molshoop]

I think Robert is a self-righteous, hypocritical prick.  I can't figure out why anyone would want him.

[AuntieMame]

On 5/21/2016 at 3:13 PM, molshoop said:

I think Robert is a self-righteous, hypocritical prick.  I can't figure out why anyone would want him.

Amen to that molshoop! While I understand that Robert is threatened by Frankie and why that would hurt, Robert s seeming entitlement to real estate on the high ground just bugs. Combined with every other bit of nasty coldness I just can't come up with any empathy for him.

[Bastet]

I wonder what Robert's reaction would have been had Sol had a chance to tell him earlier, meaning Robert hadn't had a heart attack and they hadn't gotten married in the hospital.  If Sol had been able to come home right afterward and say, "I did something really dumb, but maybe you can understand why it happened and you can certainly trust it will never happen again"?  Not that Robert would - or should be expected to - wave off being cheated on, but if there's ever a cheating scenario that can eventually be worked through without ruining the relationship, I think it's this one.  But Sol marrying him without telling him, being repeatedly asked what's wrong and not telling him, and that Robert has probably figured out this is what the kids kept huddling about ... that's a lot on top of the cheating itself.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still having a hard time with either of these two getting upset at anything anyone else does given the depth of their betrayal, and I was mad at both of them in that scene - Sol for hurting him at the worst possible time, just because he didn't want to deal with the guilt he just needs to suck up and bear, and Robert for being so damn cold.  I just think there's more for Robert to be angry about than the fact Sol slept with Frankie, and thus wonder how they're going to write him -- how much of this is about the cheating and how much is about the other stuff?

Grace would be a great mentor, and I hope she doesn't let this one bad experience stop her from participating.

[JBC344]

I thought this storyline with Grace mentoring was going to go in a totally different direction.  At the end when we realize that Grace's mentee is actually a really good bartender I thought we were going to go in the direction of Grace getting her a better bartending job.  I was waiting for Grace to suggest her mentee becoming a "mixologist", or she would say I have a friend who owns a high end restaurant who may need an experienced great bartender.  Wouldn't you want your mentee to play to their strengths?  The plot just really didn't go anywhere.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

The plot just really didn't go anywhere.

I agree, but I hope they pull a little more at that thread in Season 3 - I hope Grace develops a relationship with the bartender (whose name I cannot recall), perhaps about Grace's drinking and then the daughters get jealous of their relationship.  (That's not a spoiler, just a hope!)

[JBC344]

3 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I agree, but I hope they pull a little more at that thread in Season 3 - I hope Grace develops a relationship with the bartender (whose name I cannot recall), perhaps about Grace's drinking and then the daughters get jealous of their relationship.  (That's not a spoiler, just a hope!)

This is how I actually thought this plotline would go.

[Aja]

14 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I agree, but I hope they pull a little more at that thread in Season 3 - I hope Grace develops a relationship with the bartender (whose name I cannot recall), perhaps about Grace's drinking and then the daughters get jealous of their relationship.  (That's not a spoiler, just a hope!)

I hope so too, if for no other reason than I'm in love with the bartender. :)

[Gyproselee]

Was this the episode with the best line ever? While looking at the paintings Frankie made of her vagina." I painted this one with my vagina.  A long brush and good pelvic muscles." I laughed so hard I almost choked.

[possibilities]

Jane Fonda says Lily ad libs a lot, and they often make the cut. I wonder if that was one of the ad libs. It's so out there!

[paramitch]

On 5/7/2016 at 5:42 PM, OnceSane said:

I really liked Grace's interactions with the young woman she mentored.  I particularly enjoyed both of them laying truths on the other.

Unf, Jacob is so damn hot!  Get on him, Frankie!  I can understand her hesitancy, but I'm glad she's willing to be brave. 

I really liked Frankie's interactions with her mentee, but I also found the young woman frustrating because there's a difference between someone who needs a little help and advice and someone, you know, RAISED BY WOLVES. I mean, sheesh. I liked the actress but hated the character and felt like Grace's advice was utterly wasted.

I love Jacob, and Ernie Hudson is really hot in the role! He's just so charming, and he has wonderful chemistry with Lily Tomlin, too. I am totally rooting for Jacob and Frankie to work it out.

On 5/8/2016 at 6:56 AM, lordonia said:

Yeah, what was the point of that? That Miss Piercings was talented in her own way and in the end didn't need the conservative business world? Okay, got it. Be an excellent bartender then. But who exactly was holding her dog hostage in order to force her to participate in the program in the first place?

While I didn't appreciate her wasting the charity's time and resources, I also didn't like that Grace seemingly gave up on the idea of mentoring after that one experience. She could use some other interests in life. (Although if her only plan was to funnel everyone to her old company, that's obviously not sustainable.)

Even though I'm enjoying the funny barbs everyone gets off at Brianna's expense at work, the place comes off as so unprofessional that I have to willfully let it not bother me.

I agreed with you on Grace and the mentoring -- she would have been marvelous with almost anyone else. I felt like it was such a waste that her first attempt was on such an ass.

On Brianna's workplace, yes it's ridiculous, but I kind of love it and it rarely bothers me. It feels like a small business, and kind of a zany, sweet, funny place to work.

On 5/9/2016 at 11:52 AM, hnygrl said:

I agree lordonia.  The way they treat the boss, the freaking CEO!!! Is scandalous and wouldn't happen in a real business setting. Can you see these assholes treating GRACE that way??? She'd fire their asses in a new your minute. I didn't like that at all. It's making wonder if it was a good idea or not to give the business to Brianna since she's so bad at it. Dating an underling. No. A thousand times no. I don't care HOW cute they are together, it's not "just not done" but pretty much illegal in the business world. If anything goes wrong Brianna could lose everything.

Now to talk about "the breakup"

The first time I saw it? I cussed Robert out through the TV. Geeze man, what the hell? REALLY Robert? When did the 20 plus year cheater get so damn stiff? I mean YOU did it and he forgave YOU...

But after watching the whole season and re-watching that scene? I get it.  I'd have done the same thing. It wasn't about the sex, it was who he had sex WITH. Sol's a real piece of work isn't he?

While I totally thought Sol was wrong to confess, I thought Robert was a jerk, and that his overreaction was pompous and narcissistic. I think it's interesting that Sol and Robert both share this quality -- they're so focused on themselves! Their feelings are always the ones that matter most.

I just don't fault Sol all that much for what he did, and thought Robert should have at least been enough of a grownup to hear him out. Especially given the circumstances! They BOTH cheated on Frankie and Grace for decades with very little signs of remorse. In Sol's favor, at least, I do think he genuinely loved Frankie (whereas, I think Robert only looked on Grace as as a necessary fixture in his life, not as a person with feelings). So it shouldn't have been that difficult for Robert, I feel, to have forgiven Sol, to have understood that all the interlude showed was that he and Frankie were always kidding themselves, that there was nothing left for them, and that (as I think Sol should have expressed to Robert), the sex had never brought him real intimacy with her as it hopefully did with Robert.

Meanwhile, on the company, I think what makes it all work is that Brianna comes across as smart, driven, and (overall) pretty kind and supportive. I like her a lot. Her bark is much worse than her bite.

On 5/9/2016 at 0:18 PM, Empress1 said:

I didn't understand that either. OK, if she's a good bartender, let her be a good bartender. There's money to be made there. If she didn't want a corporate job, she didn't need to start with the program at all. And I can't stand it when people conflate honestly with rudeness. The mentee was rude as hell, walking into someone else's house immediately talking shit.

I agree, although I liked the actress even if her character was insufferable. She managed to convey the idea that even if she was being a jerk, it wasn't quite who she was inside. It was still irritating though.

On 5/12/2016 at 6:23 PM, Eeksquire said:

Robert learning the prayers, and then thinking he was doing them wrong, just about killed me.  Of course, that might just be my reaction to sad Martin Sheen (I am coupling this show with a rewatch of the "MS years" of The West Wing.)

Also: I love Brianna.  I can't help it.  She's so inappropriate, and great.  Plus, I can forgive the silliness of the office environment, as this is technically a comedy and the stuff at her office is just a sideshow for Grace and Frankie's relationship.  I wouldn't mind seeing more of Brianna and Coyote though - the other two kids seem like total bores.

I found myself surprised and incredibly moved at Robert's surprise dinner for Sol. It's easily one of the most beautiful moments between the two men on the show for me, ever.

Then, of course, Sol had to go and confess to assuage his own stupid guilt. I totally agree with those who find Sol narcissistic and frustrating.

I love her too. I think she's one of the show's strongest characters, and I'm fascinated that she has so much of Grace in her, and yet she's also -- I think -- a bit stronger, funnier and kinder. Grace is more brittle, and I think doesn't know herself all that well. Brianna I think knows herself pretty well, is comfortable as a leader at work and in the family, but is also a bit warmer and more forgiving.

But the good thing is, this show is rare for me in that I actually like and enjoy the kids, all of them, flaws and all. Not always the case for me (I'm looking at YOU, TRANSPARENT! Gah. The kids on that show are just the worst people ever.)