S05.E11: State Of The Art

[Julia]

You know, at one time I would have agreed with you. But then, pretty much exactly the same thing happened in Anthony Ryan's season (hidden for length and image)

where the Real Woman involved servicewomen and veterans whose happiness was the goal, because they'd given so much. They were very clear about that.
 
Anthony Ryan's servicewoman was a woman with large breasts who felt as if they kept her from having well-fitting, youthful, attractive outfits. She wanted something to make her look young and slim and de-emphasize her breasts. I believe her dream goal was for it to be strapless. What she got was the dress below, and she was about as happy as she looked.
 
So, he not only accomplished none of the challenge and made an ugly, inartful, ill-fitting garment which made his client look shapeless and dowdy, he made a dress for a woman whose clothing issue was unmanageable large breasts which was literally unwearable because it didn't allow her to wear a bra (strapless bras when your breasts are that large are really painful to wear in very short order). Also, large, ugly straps (although not in a useful place) and a horsey strap to visually widen her breasts.
 
Isaac called it "fresh," "chic" and "gorgeous," and insisted that it was not the job of the designer, even in that challenge, to make wearable clothes which make the women who wear them feel good. Seriously, that was his argument. Season 2, Episode 10, for the first time on PRAS, nobody went home. And Anthony Ryan won his season with a runway show in which pretty much every garment was the same derivative color block shift.
 
So, by 'throwing Isaac under the bus' at this point you're pretty much saying 'pointing the camera at Isaac.' This is not anomalous. This is something Isaac does. And he doesn't appear to be particularly conflicted about it.
 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Julia

[candall]

I look at Isaac and cringe for him- someday he is going to look back on this season and wish it never happened.

Thanks, Dr. Epi; that sounds like it could be a firsthand account from Future-Isaac.  (Everyone has those blinding highbeam memories that hurt your eyes when you look.  I just wish mine would stop crowding out the sweeter ones.)

[Dr Epi]

Thanks Julia, I forgot about that dress. I now remember cringing at the dress and how the woman felt.  Most of the time I forget PR seasons- they are like cotton candy- light as air, pink and fluffy, and forgotten instantly.

 

I guess I did not see Isaac's bias as much in the previous season- but then again, I don't think that Anthony Ryan was flirting as much, or he was not shown to be relying on flirting and a cute young thing.  Here the editors really seem to focus on Sam's flaws.  And, hence, Isaac's flaws.

[RCharter]

Thanks Julia, I forgot about that dress. I now remember cringing at the dress and how the woman felt.  Most of the time I forget PR seasons- they are like cotton candy- light as air, pink and fluffy, and forgotten instantly.

 

I guess I did not see Isaac's bias as much in the previous season- but then again, I don't think that Anthony Ryan was flirting as much, or he was not shown to be relying on flirting and a cute young thing.  Here the editors really seem to focus on Sam's flaws.  And, hence, Isaac's flaws.

me too, I'm in your camp, and when I get mad I have to remember to stay mad at a show (I'm currently mad at PR Original).

 

I didn't remember that dress but what a damned disaster no matter what her goal was.

[Julia]

Thanks Julia, I forgot about that dress. I now remember cringing at the dress and how the woman felt.  Most of the time I forget PR seasons- they are like cotton candy- light as air, pink and fluffy, and forgotten instantly.

 

I guess I did not see Isaac's bias as much in the previous season- but then again, I don't think that Anthony Ryan was flirting as much, or he was not shown to be relying on flirting and a cute young thing.  Here the editors really seem to focus on Sam's flaws.  And, hence, Isaac's flaws.

 

I keep thinking that about Tim in regular PR (especially his dyspepsia last season) and pretty much everyone in UTG, but either the editors are undermining the producers' decisions by making their favorites look ridiculous or everyone over there is insane and thinks this is professional or admirable or status-enhancing. I can't tell.

 

I will say I think they need to find a stylist for Alyssa Milano who doesn't hate her.

[Beden]

 

I didn't remember that dress but what a damned disaster no matter what her goal was.

Just MO but clothing which, for whatever reasons, can't be reasonably worn are failures. These are clothes, not art to be hung in a gallery--and if that's your goal then don't call yourself a fashion designer. No, I'm not saying that clothing/fashion can't be elevated to the realm of fine art but if you're designing clothing then it needs to be wearable.

 

If you designed a house for clients who want their dream home realized but build it with no a way to enter it, without doors, it may well be a beautiful sculpture but it's not a home.

[Tabbygirl521]

I like that Boy George is a geezer compared to some of the contestants. I dunno why. I love the guy, but it tickles me that he could probably be Sam's grandfather.

I think Ken deserved the win. I liked Dom's a lot, too, but I am among those like Isaac Mizrahi who apparently can't define avant garde.

I literally just happened across Global Beauty Masters on TLC and am kind of fascinated. These designers don't seem to have any trouble going WAY outside the box. Looks much more interesting and less contrived in some ways than PR.

[Canada]

The delusion reached new heights in this episode, both for Isaac and Sam.  Emily home over Sam?  Yeah right!

 

Something I realised about Sam this episode - he's just so..... vacant.  There's no real thoughts going on in his head.  He just isn't substantial in any way.  There's a tiny part of me that might even feel sorry for him, for being raised into such a vacant person, if he wasn't such a dick to other people.

[Wings]

I like that Boy George is a geezer compared to some of the contestants. I dunno why. I love the guy, but it tickles me that he could probably be Sam's grandfather.

 

 

 

Boy George is 54 and hardly a geezer!   Sam is 23.  He could be his father.  :>) 

Edited April 25, 2016 by wings707

[Calamity Jane]

The delusion reached new heights in this episode, both for Isaac and Sam.  Emily home over Sam?  Yeah right!

 

Something I realised about Sam this episode - he's just so..... vacant.  There's no real thoughts going on in his head.  He just isn't substantial in any way.  There's a tiny part of me that might even feel sorry for him, for being raised into such a vacant person, if he wasn't such a dick to other people.

Sam knows how to say things that seem profound or insightful, but I honestly think he is parroting things he's heard because what he produces does not reflect what he says.  Emily was extremely generous in saying he had great ideas but couldn't execute them - I take it more as he thinks up a story and tries to make whatever he made fit the story somehow.  

[Canada]

I feel like Sam is actually playing a character, not on the show, but in life.  He's acting how he thinks people want him to, because he has no idea who he really is.  I feel sorry for young people like that when I meet them, to have been raised with no idea of who you really are or what you want, to be empty.

[Steph619]

I kind of felt bad for Sam when Ken was telling him off because I would've felt embarrassed if someone talked to me like that especially in front of other people. However, I do understand Ken's frustration as well as that of the other designers.

Sam doesn't seem like he tries very hard with his designs and knows that he's going to skate by no matter what because Isaac is fascinated by every little thing he does. His dress was not up to par with the rest of the competition and yet he got praised for it when he could've easily been eliminated over Emily.

Speaking of Emily, she really grew on me this season. I was not a fan of all of her designs, but I admired the fact that she stood by her work and was proud of it despite what the judges thought.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I liked that she stood by her work and was proud of it but not in a delusional/defensive "the judges are just too stupid to understand my vision and my genius" (which I recall seeing from some past designers).

[phoenix780]

For some odd reason the talk about Isaac and Sam makes me wish they'd revamp the show entirely. Find 4-5 former contestants who are actually working, offer them a show at fashion week and a small stipend, maybe, and chronicle them as they prep an entire collection.

They probably wouldn't get stuck with third tier "all stars" like Sam if they offered more meaningful exposure, and they could avoid the weirdness that happens with a lot of regular judging panels.

I agree Emily's final comments were awesome. It's a shame they put one in too early, a random remark about shoulders that only made sense after judging, and in doing so telegraphed her exit. She was too mild for reality TV, I think. Never had a chance.

[RCharter]

The delusion reached new heights in this episode, both for Isaac and Sam.  Emily home over Sam?  Yeah right!

 

Something I realised about Sam this episode - he's just so..... vacant.  There's no real thoughts going on in his head.  He just isn't substantial in any way.  There's a tiny part of me that might even feel sorry for him, for being raised into such a vacant person, if he wasn't such a dick to other people.

I think Issac and Tim suffer from the same thing.  They are ensconced with people who will simply tell them what they want to hear, that whatever they do is great, that they are the best, and that they don't ever make an error.  I think this has made the two of them feel infallible.  It kinda reminds me of those old monarchs that assumed that what was best for them was best for the country because they were never around the common people, and even if they were, the common people were never allowed to actually talk to them.  I remember watching a documentary about Louis XVI, and it seemed like he was honestly confused as to why people didn't like him and wanted to depose him.  

 

And I think this is what happens in our current culture where no one is really allowed to have a negative opinion about anyone or its considered "bullying" or "hating."  

 

Left to his own devices, Sam may have used Ken's words for introspection....but more likely than not, he will go back to wherever and be told by family and friends that he is amazing and that Ken is just a "hater" or a "bully"

 

And thats really too bad for Sam.  It sounds like Ken heard the critiques from his season and tried to change his behavior based on that, and I respect that.  But, it took all the "bullies" and the "haters" telling him the truth about how he came off for him to take those steps.

[Jobiska]

If people are interested in Emily's legwear for themselves:  I found a lot of examples on an image search for "punctuation tights."  

The quotations are looking confusing at the moment, so I'll just comment in general that it doesn't have to be that Isaac's opinion is given more weight for some reason; if they are judging, say, on a scale of 1 to 10, and he gave Sam a 10 and everyone else gave him a 1, that would make 13, and if across the board all of them gave Emily 3s, that would give her 12, and she would go home.  I don't necessarily think the scoring is as simplistic as that, but I do think they use some sort of number grading (from vague references over the seasons) and then discuss.  And have "producer input," or whatever the little disclaimer at the end says.  I think some combination of the latter (with the "producer input" being "we're saving him for a showdown with Kini") is more likely than him having final say or his votes having more weight across the board. 

[RCharter]

8 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

If people are interested in Emily's legwear for themselves:  I found a lot of examples on an image search for "punctuation tights."  

The quotations are looking confusing at the moment, so I'll just comment in general that it doesn't have to be that Isaac's opinion is given more weight for some reason; if they are judging, say, on a scale of 1 to 10, and he gave Sam a 10 and everyone else gave him a 1, that would make 13, and if across the board all of them gave Emily 3s, that would give her 12, and she would go home.  I don't necessarily think the scoring is as simplistic as that, but I do think they use some sort of number grading (from vague references over the seasons) and then discuss.  And have "producer input," or whatever the little disclaimer at the end says.  I think some combination of the latter (with the "producer input" being "we're saving him for a showdown with Kini") is more likely than him having final say or his votes having more weight across the board. 

Yeah, I want to yell at someone to get off my lawn, but I know I need to just learn to get used to it and I'll probably love the new setup.  Oh, the quotes look much better now......everyone can come back on my lawn now.

Either way, I'm not sure how judging works, you raise a good point, it could be on a 1-10 point scale and Issac is ALWAYS giving Sam a 10 for the flats he chose, or the parachute he cleverly draped on a model and everyone is being a little more objective.  I know on TC, I had no idea Tom C. was the head judge until Padma mentioned it last season.....and since both shows started on Bravo (around the same time I believe) I thought that they might have the same set up with a head judge.  And I had noticed that thing with Heidi for a few seasons now....most especially with Patricia.  So, it could go either way I suppose.

Edited April 27, 2016 by RCharter

[Wings]

4 hours ago, RCharter said:

Yeah, I want to yell at someone to get off my lawn, but I know I need to just learn to get used to it and I'll probably love the new setup.  Oh, the quotes look much better now......everyone can come back on my lawn now.

Either way, I'm not sure how judging works, you raise a good point, it could be on a 1-10 point scale and Issac is ALWAYS giving Sam a 10 for the flats he chose, or the parachute he cleverly draped on a model and everyone is being a little more objective.  I know on TC, I had no idea Tom C. was the head judge until Padma mentioned it last season.....and since both shows started on Bravo (around the same time I believe) I thought that they might have the same set up with a head judge.  And I had noticed that thing with Heidi for a few seasons now....most especially with Patricia.  So, it could go either way I suppose.

It appears they give number scores during the runway to establish who is top/bottom/safe.  They discuss who wins and who goes.  You never hear them talking scores.  Could be but I think it is more subjective.  After talking about it if they sense Issac is going to give Sam a 10 they could fix the numbers so he could not dominate.  

[Grundoon59]

I didn't like Sam's design and I find his personality annoying.  However I thought Ken was out of line.  Ken can have all the opinions he likes but he also doesn't have to confront every individual he dislikes with them.  He should learn that unexpressed thoughts won't kill him (especially given he can do Talking Heads to his heart's content).  Confronting Sam because he was pissed at the judges was petty and vindictive.  It only reminded me why I didn't like him in his season.  I did like Kini his season but his Mean Girl routine this time is making me ill.  Their beef is with the judges- in their own words, show some balls on the runway, don't just roll your eyes.  I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion here but hey if It is good enough for Ken and Kini,  I can handle the heat.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Grundoon59
Spell check let me down.

[halkatla]

I´m flabbergasted, I tell you, that Sam didn´t go home? What? Oh my... Anyway, I think it´s the first time I´ve seen Alyssa look and sound good since she started hosting the show. I liked all the dresses, thought they were very avant garde and some even looked good, except the ugly mess that Sam threw together, that was just vile.

[Oholibamah]

I somehow managed to not realize Project Runway Allstars was even going to have a Season five, let alone that it had already started airing four months ago and has already finished.

The good thing is that I had decided to

 

spoil myself about Sam by Episode-freaking-two because I was already so completely over him. If I hadn't done that, this episode surely would have been the end for me.

Isaac actively disgusts me.

On 2016-04-21 at 10:58 PM, DasFlavorPup said:

This is PRAS season 2 all over again. Isaac's boycrush (Anthony Ryan/Sam) gets saved in a non-elimination when said boycrush clearly had the weakest design, is consistently and inexplicably over-praised all season, and then is handed a win for department store clothes over designers who create high-fashion and/or conceptual collections. I am hoping like hell this isn't the case this season, but I'm not optimistic.

Anthony Ryan winning a season isn't a travesty a vacuum - unlike Sam, he's actually a nice person who can make clothes. This is how I am able to not enter seething fits of rage every time I remember Season 2.

But this comment made me remember Uli and Emilio's final collections and now my blood is absolutely boiling.

Also, remember when people like Uli and Emilio actually showed up for Allstars? I don't know how you can keep calling a show "Allstars" when it's basically just "we've already already had !!!50!!! former contestants return, so lets invite numbers 51-60 from our shortlist, plus 3 people from the most recent season."

It makes me sad that Elena already came back for Season 3 and lost. She would have trampled everybody in Season 5. Note to all future "Allstars": wait a few seasons before coming back. If  you return for Season 8, you'll probably be competing against Jerry, S6 Mitchell, Lantie, Ricky, and Marla. You're guaranteed to win! (That is, unless Isaac is still a judge and Wesley Nault is a contestant. Heh.).

Edited June 18, 2016 by Oholibamah

[Fiero425]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 10:57 PM, Dr Epi said:

I don't think that the producers are supporting Sam at all in this competition.  If they were, they would be giving him a better edit.  The  editors are throwing in the little flirtatious waves that he does, the accusations of flirting, the taking credit for Kini's design, etc, etc, and all of the negative comments from the other contestants.  If you ask me, the producers and editors are throwing Sam under the bus.  And also throwing Isaac under the bus by making it clear that Sam is still in the competition by the grace of Isaac and for no other reason.

 

The producers have to know that having Sam in the top 4, with some of the crap that he has pulled, actually hurts the brand of PRAS.  His continued presence cheapens it.

 

As far as Isaac, I have been the 40-something entranced by a sexy 20 something (who looked a lot like Sam) who knew exactly how to push my buttons and flirt to get me to help him and encourage him and talk praisingly about his work even when it was not so good.  I look at Isaac and cringe for him- someday he is going to look back on this season and wish it never happened.

Sorry to revive this thread, but it was so on point! I happened to pull an old tape out and it involved this very subject matter! It was the Avant-Garde challenge where Sam merely pinned some material representing the gay flag wrapped around his model and Isaac was embarrassing himself praising it to the Heavens! Later in the Green Room, Ken went off on Sam; "you're a liar, you're a snake, you rely on this 'pretty sh!t,' and I don't mean your garments! You need to MAN up and grab your balls!" (paraphrasing, but it had me ROTFLOL) I literally was near passing out from lack of oxygen! I hate bullies, but Ken was only giving voice to what everyone else was thinking and they sat there; no one defended Sam! He was alone, but he really should have been ashamed of himself with that tacky design when someone else actually produced something on the right track! Making the final 4 was ridiculous with a lot of his offerings derivative where "PR Kids" would have taken him out if the playing field were equal! Who saved this kid if not for production and Isaac? Funny! ;-)

Edited July 3, 2018 by Fiero425