S02.E07: Amazing Grapes

[Lisin]

Original Air Date 2014-04-08

[sskrill]

Preview:

[clod]

I can't resist a good preview!

[selhars]

Brains and looks. Marcus, you're so cute. I love you! Intelligence is sooo attractive.

(As much as I can love someone I've never met, that is)

Edited April 8, 2014 by selhars

[sskrill]

I really liked this episode despite another d-bag owner.  Loved when Dan told him to go eff himself.

I wasn't sure about Marcus' grand plan when I saw it on paper but you certainly can't argue with the numbers.

What a good group of employees.  I'm glad Marcus included them in his overall plan.

[camom]

I was kind of put off by Dan.  When the owner was telling him they should price the wine higher, Dan didn't even try to explain his reasoning.  He just basically said, "You're not the boss of me!"  

[selhars]

I think Dan had just had it by then, and was sick of it.

Catch any of us on the wrong day and we might, push back instead of explain ourself -- yet again.

Marcus says he rarely loses his cool. Yet, he's curses in a fair number of episodes, and told people to eff themselves at least twice.

He used the eff word a couple of times last night, and said BS I think also. I don't think that's "rarely."

I don't remember that much cursing in season one. I just don't think vulgarity is needed except in the absolutely rarest of cases.

I wonder if he's not now 'snapping' for the cameras?

[Tara Ariano]

Forgot to link this yesterday: here's Sarah's post on the episode!

[attica]

I just don't think vulgarity is needed except in the absolutely rarest of cases.

 

Goodness knows I disagree. Profanity is often the quickest way to be clear. Besides being eminently satisfying. :)

[selhars]

 

Goodness knows I disagree. Profanity is often the quickest way to be clear. Besides being eminently satisfying. :)

I guess I don't get much enjoyment out of seeing others be crass and vulgar. Except in the rarest of cases professionals shouldn't have to resort to that.

[Maysie]

A few things about this episode:

 

I felt Brian decided to be "proactive" when he saw that the long-time employees were being nicely rewarded for basically running Greg's business all that time. I think he wanted to be part of the group and figured his "proactivity" would be embraced by Marcus. But as it was, he stepped out of bounds and looked like he was making poor choices. I do think Marcus was a bit over the top in his reaction, however.

As for Dan going off on Greg, I can imagine that was a lot of frustration coming out - more than the price of a bottle of wine for both of them, for sure. Greg comes back to see his business - or basically his old business - radically different from what it used to be and understandably felt threatened. And Dan's been plugging along making the best of bad/no management for years and finally has some support. Of course they'll clash.

 

I have to say: Marcus totally rocked Greg's world in this one. Talk about marginalizing the former owner! It took on a very "us vs him" feel, but Greg earned it. My husband and I discussed whether Marcus tried to call/contact Greg during the renovation - I sensed that Marcus had put in a few calls to him, but that may have been an assumption on my part. I could definitely envision a scenario where Marcus went ahead and let Greg continue to slack off knowing that he's avoiding the inevitable conflict that's coming from the extensive renovation.

 

I feel like Amazing Grapes went from being a wine store to a wine bar that sells the stuff you can taste. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it seems like a pretty big shift in the business. Marcus dropped some serious cash in that renovation.

 

And what the hell with all these people that seem to think Marcus is going to walk in, drop a check and then walk away? I guess they are deluded because they've allowed their businesses to get to the point where they're looking for that kind of help, but seriously? They think someone's just going to gift them with a few hundred grand and allow you to do the same fucked up shit that got you in the mess in the first place. He's The Profit. Not the Non-Profit.

[attica]

They think someone's just going to gift them with a few hundred grand and allow you to do the same fucked up shit that got you in the mess in the first place.

 

I suspect it's the self-delusion that if they only got a little liquid cash-flow, their businesses would be fine. I really enjoy when ML disabuses them of that notion.

[mojito]

 

Goodness knows I disagree. Profanity is often the quickest way to be clear. Besides being eminently satisfying. :)

I agree. There's no better way to make a point than to unexpectedly drop an F bomb or some other cussword. But profanity only works when it's used sparingly, I think, otherwise it's tiresome and to me, becomes offensive. I know that sounds weird. When you're cussing up a storm, it's hard for me to focus on your point, and it feels that you're just being aggressive and hostile. When Grandma drops an F bomb, she's gotten my attention.

 

Here's another thought: primetime TV has allowed lots of what used to be cusswords. In my mind, all that's left is F***, Sh*t, and G**damn. I heard "asshole" the other day in primetime on network TV, and truly, it was used effectively, as a father was making a point to his hurt teenage son about the other kids who tease him unmercifully. If my father had said that to me, I would have understood that these were not people I should give much importance to.

 

Anyway, my observation is: in my entire lifetime living in the US, no one has created new curse words. Considering how most people understand that some words you don't say in certain settings, what might be the end result of opening the gates on these remaining TV taboo words?

 

Oh yes, this episode. This more than all the episodes shows just how much Marcus values the input of the employees. Over and over again, we see some stifled employees who could really further a business if allowed to. Some have expressed not liking the all hands on deck meeting where Marcus tells everyone what's what. I do like it. It shows that he believes in informed employees and also he encourages employees to feel free to pull him aside, knowing that someone else is in charge. I loved the relief on the employees' faces when he told them that they'd have part ownership.

 

Dan speaking to the used-to-be owener: I refused to come to work and have to feel this way anymore. From now on, I'm in charge.

Every employee's dream.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rhondinella

[Ketzel]

I think Marcus understood Dan's reaction to Greg's challenging him when he was re-pricing the wine, but I don't think he approved of it. I think Marcus also understood why Dan was behaving that way and would have preferred a less confrontational/more courteous push-back from Dan. I noticed that when Dan looked to Marcus for support, Marcus didn't actually say or do anything to back him up in challenging Greg; he just didn't intervene on Greg's behalf. And after Dan had his say and clearly felt validated by Marcus' not objecting, Marcus quietly took Greg aside and did some ego-soothing.

[bobswift]

The problem with this business had little to do its wine stocking program, the minutiae of wine-tasting, or the out-of-synch band. These are of academic interest only and distract from Marcus’ incisive analysis and corrective actions. The core issue, as fully developed developed very early on by Marcus, was the prioritization of low-margin operations (retail wine sales) over higher-margin ones (running a food and wine bar). In fact, the operating margin was insufficient to meet the business’ break-even point. The employees were working hard at losing money. The fix was to increase the profitability of Amazing Grapes by vastly enlarging the visibility, attractiveness, and raw seating capacity of the bar at the expense of retail wine display and storage space. Simple problem, simple fix.

 

The management/ownership issues, as Sarah touches on, are much more interesting. From what I know of "silent partner" arrangements, I suspect the "investors" had no voting rights (managerial say) in the business, while they may well have had a passive income interest (ownership) in any profits. Generally, such arrangements also provide side benefits such as discounts on bulk wine purchases, free food & drinks, preferred reservations, etc. It is often these little perks that keep investors hooked to a loser business for extraordinary time periods with little or no "static" to the managing partners.

 

Which brings the managing partners into focus. As Marcus keeps repeating (and then directly violates), he doesn’t buy into businesses with absentee owners. The demoralization of the staff and the fecklessness of Greg and Bill are the obvious reasons for this policy. Marcus correctly intuits that running Greg and Bill off is best done in a two-stage process. First, decrease their ownership to a small minority share, remove their decision-making ability entirely, and carrot & stick them with Marcus turning around the business versus leaving them on the hook for huge personal (and collectible) debts to the vendors. Then, once the business is up and running profitably, Marcus will force Greg and Bill to sell their 25% ownership back to the business in order to provide more stock for distribution to the employees.

 

Which brings us to the final, most interesting component of the show. Again, Sarah touches on this essential but little-explained aspect of the new Amazing Grapes - the 25% ownership stake given to the "management team." I'm sure that anyone thinking with at least two neurons will see the problem inherent in giving equal shares of stock to both Dan (the wine buyer) and Brian (the, uh, uh, well Brian). And if not equal shares, then how is their ownership ratio determined? And when such a metric is applied to everyone, the problem of differential ownership between similar employees arises. Then, what happens when Dan or the beer guy leaves for greener pastures? If they get a ton of money for their stock, guess what the other owner/employees are likely to do instead of living paycheck-to-paycheck on their salaries? Yup, they quit to cash in. Or if they're clever, they sell their stock back to the company and go back to being regular wage employees. Another complication is what happens when the next great employee walks in the door - say an immensely attractive and able hostess to draw in a more well- heeled clientele? Who's willing to give up their stock so she can have some? Marcus, Dan, the beer guy?

 

Owner/employee arrangements whether ESOPs or directly-managed programs like the one here are fraught. They all begin well with massively motivated workers, but, just as predictably, these well-intentioned progrms inevitably end up producing division, envy, and perverse incentives that tend to work against the interests of all concerned. I, along with Sarah, wish the show had gone into some of these issues in much greater detail.

Edited May 3, 2014 by bobswift

[Irina Palm]

I love how people ask (no, beg) for his advice and then when he gives it, they push back.  They know what the numbers are and then act all shocked and insulted with the offer.  Don't want my offer?  No problem.  Go out of business and die a slow, agonizing death. 

 

Is this really a choice these idiots have to think about?

 

They should be kissing Marcus's sweet, chubby butt.

[Amarsir]

Finally getting around to commenting on it...

 

Something about this episode didn't sit right with me. I love how Marcus values employees and insists they get stake where appropriate.  It's not only good business, it's being a good person.  That said, I sometimes feel like he's going slightly overboard to drive a wedge between owners and employees and put himself with the latter group.  Like it's a power play he's using to get instant loyalty.  (Not specific to Amazing Grapes, but this was a fine example.)

 

One example is when he says things like "you can't be an absentee owner".  Well, no. You can't be an absentee manager.  You can be an absentee owner, which is exactly what you're planning to do once the conversion is done, Marcus.  Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what he was saying that the owner was negligent and the business was suffering for it.  But it feels like going 10% too far.

 

I also felt bad for the new employee who was trying to take initiative and got in trouble for it.  Yes, obviously he needed to be pulled back.  But in general I think that was an opportunity for a responsible employee that's worth cultivating.

 

Anyway, my observation is: in my entire lifetime living in the US, no one has created new curse words. Considering how most people understand that some words you don't say in certain settings, what might be the end result of opening the gates on these remaining TV taboo words?

I'm replying to ancient history given your post date.  But my answer would be this:  Sometimes a speaker wants to offend people, and if they don't have a word to do it they'll find another way.  Look at a format where the word is accepted already, e.g. Xbox Live gaming chat.  The F word has no effect there, so resident 12-year-olds resort to the N-word, rape threats, etc.  Or a private radio shock jock, like Opie & Anthony on XM.  If they want to shock audiences they'll use anything from graphic discussion of cysts, to racist/sexist jokes, to verbal beratement of callers.

 

Point being, words are just a tool to express the message.  In context profanity can mean "I want to offend you" or "I don't take anything seriously" or "I can't form a coherent sentence" or (in your Dad example) "hey listen up, this is important".  If the specific words lose that meaning, it's not going to change people's need to express it.

[eddy]

I'm late to the party as I just watched this episode last night.

 

The highlight for me was Bill, the other main investor who Marcus had to coax into coming over for a meeting.  This guy was supposedly a business consultant, yet couldn't see that his own company was losing money with every bottle sold.  That store was little more than a very expensive warehouse for the internet sales dept. And why would any sane person order more inventory when you can't sell what you already have?

 

Obviously these guys somehow by accident made enough money in the past to open this place as a hobby and as a venue to showcase the lousy band.

[Amarsir]

Obviously these guys somehow by accident made enough money in the past to open this place as a hobby and as a venue to showcase the lousy band.

I figure that's not uncommon. Did you see the Athans Motors episode?  That guy had made millions in real estate and then blew it on a ridiculously impractical dealership.  And I don't know where John and Becky of West End Coffee originally made their money, but their business was clearly more of a dream than an actual business model.

[caligirl50]

This was my favorite episode by far. I loved the store changes and the staff.  Unfortunately, the owner was a douche.  They seem to be doing well and that is why we watch this show.  Marcus is a visionary and I cannot wait for Season 3.

[nobodyyoucare]

 

Anyway, my observation is: in my entire lifetime living in the US, no one has created new curse words. Considering how most people understand that some words you don't say in certain settings, what might be the end result of opening the gates on these remaining TV taboo words?

 

Well we bring back what sounds like non curse words as curse words. For instance in the 1920s Applesauce was an expletive.

 

Bimbo also used to mean a strong guy. 

 

 

This guy was supposedly a business consultant, yet couldn't see that his own company was losing money with every bottle sold.

I think he did and didn't want to work on the business because he knew the other guy wouldn't make the changes. Hence why he was willing to be silent and reap the benefits.If Marcus had offered to buy him out he may have done that as well.

 

 

the 25% ownership stake given to the "management team."

Odds are the papers detailed that more by way of bylaws etc. It would take an hour or more to spell it out verbally. Odds are it was just divided up so if the business did great everybody got a nice chunk so everyone wants to do the best since that way everyone gets more money.

 

 

I felt Brian decided to be "proactive" when he saw that the long-time employees were being nicely rewarded for basically running Greg's business all that time. I think he wanted to be part of the group and figured his "proactivity" would be embraced by Marcus. But as it was, he stepped out of bounds and looked like he was making poor choices. I do think Marcus was a bit over the top in his reaction, however.

That may be because of what Brian told the mayor and the mayor talked to the press or somebody important. Brian should have just said there are going to be things done and if you want more info talk to Marcus. Instead he babbled everything he heard which may or not be changed which for pr purposes is bad.

 

 

I was kind of put off by Dan.  When the owner was telling him they should price the wine higher, Dan didn't even try to explain his reasoning.  He just basically said, "You're not the boss of me!"

He did explain. He said they were priced to move and make the store profit by moving it out fast. Dan was the reason the place made 2 million dollars a sale a year yet had no inventory control or pricing control under Greg. Now he could  do what needed to be done to make it a 4 million dollar a year. For  Greg to now come in and talk about the prices just ticked Dan off. Greg by this time had no authority hence he shouldn't have been there. 

[caligirl50]

Interesting that you bring up Dan.  If you watch the first episode of Season 2, Athan Motors, they show highlights of what is to come for the season.  They show many clips and one was of Dan that same day when he had the fight with Greg in the back office with Marcus saying, "I can't do it.  I can't do it anymore." Marcus says to him, "Then you can't work here."  But if you watch the episode, Marcus sides with Dan and Greg walks out and tries to leave.

Also, I did a search online about the store, the Yelp comments were not so pretty, specifically of the beer guy, calling him a slacker.  One patron posted a few photos of the guy sitting at the bar....BUT he could have been off work and just hanging. That's normal for people who work at bars and restaurants.  They also changed the menu AND lastly, Greg's band still performs at the bar along with some other live music.

[nobodyyoucare]

That fight wasn't in the back office. It was out in the floor when Dan was pricing stuff. 

 

Don't know what yelp reviews you read but overwhelming they are positive. http://www.yelp.com/biz/amazing-grapes-wine-store-rancho-santa-margarita

 

Also those two photos didn't look like Dan who they called the beer guy in that little review nor the actual Beer guy. 

 

There is an Amazing Grapes in New Jersey that does have a band playing there. 

[caligirl50]

a) the fight was in the office...see the notation I made about a confrontation that took place between Dan and Marcus and it not being aired on the show but on the first season what's to come (Athans Motors).  I watch this show every day online.....over and over. Go on the CNBC site and check it out.

b) it was Daniel in both the photos posted. Not Dan.

c) The Amazing Grapes website for the store lists all the live music that perform.  Greg's band is not listed on there right now, but when I looked a month or so ago, it was listed.

[nobodyyoucare]

http://www.amazinggrapeswinestore.com/store/ music is only listed as upcoming for valentines. No band info otherwise. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Amazing-Grapes-Wine-Store/224240394252913?rf=475118232520541 facebook does list music. Greg's band ain't listed nowhere. Instead they have bands that keep coming back apparently because those nights are reservations only and hence apparently popular. 

[caligirl50]

Nobodyyoucare - look under wine bar.  All the upcoming bands/performers are listed.  And as I wrote, Greg's band is currently not listed....

[nobodyyoucare]

And the facebook which did list bands performing well over a year ago never seems to have listed greg's band. Amazing Grapes seems to be doing quite well after Greg departed and the management was able to do what they needed to do. Vast majority of reviews are favorable and even a place at it's best is always going to get some bad reviews from those that just want to trash a place. 

[nobodyyoucare]

"But in that initial round of interviews there was no hostility at them.  Only later it came up. And Marcus complained about him being absentee, while he himself will be absentee.  (And then he reamed out the new employee for giving an answer which he only gave because Marcus wasn't there.) It's a case where there was already a problem, but rather than mend it he made a split."

 

 

Marcus when he talks about absentee owners he means an owner who doesn't care about the business. An owner can be there everyday and be said to be absentee. Absentee doesn't mean you aren't present, it means you don't care about the business to be involved with what is going on. Marcus is not absentee by any means. Even if he isn't there he is still part of the business keeping track of what is going on and making it grow.

As for Brian, he told about everything going on to the Mayor of the town without permission to do so. If things had changed then it makes the business look bad. If Brian had instead say "I know how to get in touch with the Mayor. do you want a meeting with her Marcus?, because she was curious about what was going on here." That would been perfectly accepted and Brian would have been thanked for taken that initiative.

[cooksdelight]

I saw this on rerun for the first time the other night. I wanted to smack the owner, many times. He handed over ownership then gets pissed when progress is taking place while he's AWOL?? What a dick!

Brian wasn't any better, he reminds me of those people I've worked with who suck up to the boss and try to run around and over anyone else to get a promotion.

[Amarsir]

Amazing Grapes closed its doors.

http://www.theprofitupdates.com/2017/07/amazing-grapes-from-profit-has-closed.html

[cooksdelight]

I saw that last night on his recap of businesses he's tried to help. That guy was an asshole so I'm not surprised.