Season 5

[Ms Blue Jay]

Hey guys!  I am already at Season 5 in my personal rewatch.  Soon will be sweet, sweet release. Just kidding.

 

I am having fun -- I like Season 5 -- the colours seem so much brighter here after the dismal 4.  I really enjoy seeing Luke and Lorelai actually dating and being happy together.  It always makes me notice Lorelai's sparky blue eyes.  Also, the shot of Luke in the doorway, wearing just sweats as pajamas, when Lorelai is figuring it out that he needs to sleep really early to run the diner?  Humina Humina Humina.  OMG

 

Anyways, brace yourselves because I have an announcement.

 

I HATE the Life and Death Brigade.  I hate them. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate them.  I hope I never have to hear fuckin' In Omnia Paratus for the rest of my doggone life.

 

Thank you.  I feel better.  I do realize that it might PARTLY be jealousy in that I'd love to be a rich drunk kid at Yale, and they're obviously incredibly privileged and having the time of their lives.  So YES.  I am JEALOUS.  But even if you put that aside I just hate hate hate hate hate hate them and that club.  It kind of makes sense that Rory would join it since I'm not her biggest fan either.  (Hey -- if anyone wants to spin me a tale to have me see the value of it, I will definitely read it!)    All of Rory's talk about how "Beautiful" Logan is - sigh.  Ok.  The guy has a cute squinty smile I GUESS but he has a very dorky hairstyle and cut -- it looks grey, and it's all piled up the top.  Whatever.

 

My observations from the VERY first episode of Season 5:

- Emily never hugged Lorelai when she left for Europe.

- God, Dean is such an unrepentant asshole to Lindsay. 

 

Speaking of, rewatching the Rory-Dean final breakup, what the hell was that?  (Is it totally over at this point?  I forget, and I don't care if you spoil me).  It was so abrupt and underwritten.  She's dressed like a princess with her grandparents and laughing with the L&DB and Dean shows up and says he doesn't belong and leaves?  Did I miss anything!

 

Thanks for putting up with my essays.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Kohola3]

I HATE the Life and Death Brigade.  I hate them. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate them.  I hope I never have to hear fuckin' In Omnia Paratus for the rest of my doggone life.

 

Table for two on that one.  One of the biggest reasons that I may not even watch the Netflix reunion. I don't want to see anything to do with them.

[txhorns79]

Speaking of, rewatching the Rory-Dean final breakup, what the hell was that?  (Is it totally over at this point?  I forget, and I don't care if you spoil me).  It was so abrupt and underwritten.  She's dressed like a princess with her grandparents and laughing with the L&DB and Dean shows up and says he doesn't belong and leaves?  Did I miss anything!

 

I would say that the break up was not unexpected.  They had shown over a few episodes during the early part of the season that Rory and Dean were having difficultly maintaining their relationship.  Either she was doing stuff at Yale, or he was working and they were not able to really do much as a couple.  I thought the way the break up occurred was a little overwrought, but the break up itself did not surprise me.   

[Ms Blue Jay]

I didn't mean I found the breakup unexpected.  There was a lot of build-up over the course of Season 5 of Dean and Rory not having time for each other and leading separate lives.  

 

But this is a very long-term couple that has been through so much, including infidelity and Dean's divorce.  They've been through breakups and they've reunited.  Rory lost her virginity to Dean.  They knew each other's families.  They practically grew up together.

 

And yet the show chose to handle the breakup in like a 3 minute scene where Dean says something that isn't really earned in my opinion, and then walks away.  I find the scene and the handling of the break up strange.

 

Something interesting - they didn't go to the same high school, so it's not like they were used to attending school together and then suddenly weren't.  But I do understand why the breakup happened.  That part is very clear to me.  It's just the scene that I found weird.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[elang4]

What I didn't like about season 5 is that because of all the Dean stuff at the beginning, we didn't have Rory's reaction to Lorelai and Luke getting together. I always wished we'd seen it. :) Apart from that, season 5 was one of my favourite seasons with lots of Lorelai/Luke fluffiness! :)

[cantbeflapped]

I never really thought about it before, Ms Blue Jay, but you're right. That scene with Dean is a very incomplete break-up...especially considering all they had been through. I think, surely, Rory went to him at some point to clarify/break up more definitively. We just didn't see it.

I really like season five. BUT, they start to lose me with Rory's storyline. I was more interested in her uninteresting freshman year. I'll elaborate more on this when I watch these episodes, I guess. But after Rory broke up with Dean I just stopped caring what her character did. To clarify, I didn't want her with Dean....that's why I was interested in watching until they ended it. And, I did think she made a good couple with Logan...just didn't care much about either of them, while still finding them likable characters....just not interesting, I guess.

Yes, bedtime Luke leaning on the door frame is one of his finer moments. :).

[Ms Blue Jay]

Another thing that I find odd -- in my rewatch, so far Season 1 and 5 are standing out to me as my most enjoyable, even though Jess is my favourite character!  Jess is a Seasons 2-4 character, and yet I didn't enjoy those seasons as strongly.  And I hate Max :)  And don't really care for Dean at all, and they're both allllllll over Season 1.  Very strange indeed.  Season 1 and 5, their cohesion and themes, maybe because there's a lot of lightness and excitement and happiness - so far - are really enjoyable to me I find.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Isn't she so beautiful here?  Reminds me of an old Hollywood star or something.

Episode:  "Women of Questionable Morals"

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

I stopped caring about Rory when she slept with Dean, and this season did nothing to improve that. Was I suppose

to feel sorry for Rory when she heard Lindsay and ran off to Europe? Or how hard it was to date Dean following his

divorce. I didn't feel sorry for her at all during her re-dating Dean again. Being with Dean had nothing to do with

actually wanting to be with him. It was about her, she came of an entire year of being single and she currently

had no guys circling her. Look how fast she lost interested when Logan came on the scene. I didn't feel sorry

for Dean either. Even though they once again placed him in the position to dump Rory. I didn't like her any

better when she was dating Logan. I thought the Life and Death stuff was really boring. I had been a little

interested when it sounded like Rory would try new things which I really thought she should. But all

that ended up being was partying, casual sex, jumping off something in a dress and stealing a boat.

[junienmomo]

There are strong parallels between the Dean breakup scene and the LL brreakup scene in Wedding Bell Blues. Almost enough to make me think the writers are deliberately running parallel storylines.

Rory is all dressed up in the high society costume by her grandmother. She lets Dean down by being late, he gets an eyeful of diamonds, garb and her all-male entourage, then suddenly decides it's too much, so he's done.

Replace the diamonds with Lorelai's bridesmaid's outfit, this event also orchestrated by Emily, and add in a number of direct insults to Luke. Lorelai lets him down by lying about Christopher. Add the entourage of Christopher and a jillion society folk coupled with the knowledge that Emily has directly conspired to replace Luke, and he's pretty much done too.

I've been pondering lately the possibility that ASP wanted the GG to remain single all the time as evidence of their strength and independence. The inconsistency I see in the notion is that here, for example, they don't choose singlehood, they get to pretend that it's not their fault as long as they deny their own part in the bad communication skills so prevalent in GG relationships.

Then, again, Occam's razor might suggest they stay single because they (and their partners) suck at relationships. The simplest reason is the most likely one. But do I really want to be in love with a show where everybody sucks at relationships?

[txhorns79]

I've been pondering lately the possibility that ASP wanted the GG to remain single all the time as evidence of their strength and independence. The inconsistency I see in the notion is that here, for example, they don't choose singlehood, they get to pretend that it's not their fault as long as they deny their own part in the bad communication skills so prevalent in GG relationships.

 

I think it was more, particularly with Lorelai, that ASP didn't know how to let the character grow and get into a permanent relationship with a man.  I got the sense that ASP was very reluctant to move the characters too far away from the original premise of the show.  It's like why Emily and Lorelai were always one step forward two steps back. 

[junienmomo]

I think it was more, particularly with Lorelai, that ASP didn't know how to let the character grow and get into a permanent relationship with a man.  I got the sense that ASP was very reluctant to move the characters too far away from the original premise of the show.  It's like why Emily and Lorelai were always one step forward two steps back.

Ahh, an even more Occam-y reason than my convolution. Very elegant, and probably far closer to the truth than my idea.

Doesn't bode well for the revival, though.

[cantbeflapped]

Yeah, that was really well stated....great summary. I guess we're done discussing the show now...lol.

But, I do still have really high hopes for the revival. Without numberless episodes and seasons ahead of her, I think ASP will let the characters come to a happier conclusion. I actually have great faith in her....backed up by an interview with Kelly Bishop I read recently. (Don't want to be too spoilery.)

(Still having trouble with quotes....this relates to the two posts above.)

Edited April 16, 2016 by cantbeflapped

[junienmomo]

Yeah, that was really well stated....great summary. I guess we're done discussing the show now...lol.

But, I do still have really high hopes for the revival. Without numberless episodes and seasons ahead of her, I think ASP will let the characters come to a happier conclusion. I actually have great faith in her....backed up by an interview with Kelly Bishop I read recently. (Don't want to be too spoilery.)

(Still having trouble with quotes....this relates to the two posts above.)

I've been having quote problems too. I clicked the quotes symbol, but was unable to find the quoted message for a long time. Later I found the black box at the bottom of my iPad screen. Now I can't find the formatting buttons, so I don't format.

Double LOL on finished discussing. We NEVER finish discussing GG.

My theory is just that, a theory.

I also had a theory early on that the storyline would follow something called The Hero's Journey. It didn't, but FYI, that's a commonly-encountered, perhaps universal, storyline.

That's what I expected as I watched the first seasons starting in 2014. By the time I got to the last season, it was clear to me that very few characters (actually I think none except maybe Rory a little overall, and Luke a little but in season 7 only) had followed the structure.

So it's probably not a very long time to wait before someone replies to tell me exactly why Lorelai and ASP cannot possibly be the same, and it's not a seven year long self-therapy session, or six years, or a whatever, and that Daniel Palladino despite his scruffiness cannot be a Luke. That person will make a lot of sense, we'll read her explanation and notice something and start down a whole new discussion path.

Part of the joy of GG.

[txhorns79]

So it's probably not a very long time to wait before someone replies to tell me exactly why Lorelai and ASP cannot possibly be the same, and it's not a seven year long self-therapy session, or six years, or a whatever, and that Daniel Palladino despite his scruffiness cannot be a Luke. That person will make a lot of sense, we'll read her explanation and notice something and start down a whole new discussion path.

 

I've seen interviews with ASP.  Lorelai is very clearly written as a variation of ASP.  They aren't exactly the same person, in that ASP obviously doesn't have Lorelai's history and background, but you can see where all of Lorelai's tics come from.  I have no idea if Daniel is supposed to be like Luke. 

[Smad]

I enjoy early S5 but the latter half is the beginning of the end really. I haven't cared about Rory since S4 because all her college stuff was boring and it gets even worse here with the LADB. Almost everything she now does makes me cringe or roll my eyes. Whether it's sleeping with married man, being seduced by the rich or stealing yachts or whatever. Logan is boring to me as well with all the leaning forward when talking and smirking and the rich people stuff. Not to mention stupid Colin and Finn.

 

The townies are starting to be over the top quirky. Sookie just becomes a screeching annoyance with only the occassional calm moment.

 

Richard and especially Emily turn into such caricatures they belong on a Sunday morning cartoon, not a tv show. The sudden focus on class differences was annoying as hell. The elder Gilmores have never cared so far to go all out in order to get their girls appropriate male suitors so why start now? Emily tried once in S1 to introduce a guy to Lorelai and in S4 to Rory. Also if Emily is so concerned about that why didn't she ever try to get between Max and Lorelai. He may be a respectable Chilton teacher but I never got the impression he came from a blue blooded background. So why the switch from 0 to 100? I could swallow them trying when it comes to Rory once she leaves for college (less Lorelai influence) but then it really should have started in S4, not S5. Also Emily used to be much smarter and more subtle when it came to manipulating the girls but she completely lacked that in S5. I have always believed that Emily loved her daughter despite everything (the subtlies of earlier Seasons) and just didn't know how to connect with her but when she actively tried to ruin Lorelai's happiness I had to change my mind. For Emily it's all about Emily. And status and appearances.

 

I don't even know where to start with Luke and the L/L relationship. I didn't appreciate that they made Luke grumpier and dumber than he used to be. I will never get over Luke wearing jeans to dinner with Emily. WTF was that?!? Luke knows how to dress in formal wear just fine. And no way would Lorelai let him wear jeans to dinner considering she was so worried about the barbs that would no doubt be thrown around during that dinner. The man also used to be able to throw refrences around from various topics. And it would be nice if they could ever settle on a consistant background when it comes to him. Instead they change and add depending on what they need for plot. So he suddenly has a dark day out of nowhere but the townies can't do the math and connect it with his dad's death? He said in S2 I believe that he had no one to help him get the diner started yet here comes Buddy. And I won't even start listing the changes done to the L/L relationship or ASP's weird way of writing couples.

 

The aftermath of the WBB fiasco and the Emily/Lorelai estrangement was just glossed over. Rory completely losing her spine over the course of the Season. Liz and TJ (urgh). The ending of the Season in general was just twilight zone-y.

 

There were parts of the Season I enjoyed and there were a few fantastic episodes but so much irked me about it that it won't ever make my top Seasons list.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Smad

[junienmomo]

I enjoy early S5 but the latter half is the beginning of the end really. <snip>

There were parts of the Season I enjoyed and there were a few fantastic episodes but so much irked me about it that it won't ever make my top Seasons list.

I agree about season five, great post. After the stupidity of the WBB breakup and the even more stupid delays in getting LL back together, my episode watching became more a birthday candles type of viewing - close my eyes before the episode begins, wish for something good to happen, the watch it to see if my wish came true.

Emily did actively try to get Lorelai back to Christopher and have her break them up when Sherry was pregnant, but it wasn't at the soap opera level of S5.

Some of my favorite moments include the whole "hot plates" flirting, the LL banter early on, and the LADB.

I'm beginning to think that liking LADB is an UO. For me, it's just an upscale fraternity/sorority that would largely end after the end of college. If Rory (or Lorelai when she theoretically went to college as an upscale kid) had been full time in society, they would have joined without a second thought.

The LADB gave Logan and Rory a network, like any other similar society. It would have helped Rory enormously if she'd embraced it and gotten to know the larger group better, maybe going out with the females occasionally. It would have changed her life for the better.

[brightside]

I'm beginning to think that liking LADB is an UO. For me, it's just an upscale fraternity/sorority that would largely end after the end of college. If Rory (or Lorelai when she theoretically went to college as an upscale kid) had been full time in society, they would have joined without a second thought.

The LADB gave Logan and Rory a network, like any other similar society. It would have helped Rory enormously if she'd embraced it and gotten to know the larger group better, maybe going out with the females occasionally. It would have changed her life for the better.

 

I think liking the LADB is an unpopular opinion, but I'm right there with you! I think they're pretty harmless and funny. I really do love Finn. Plus, I know a few people who were in societies similar to this and a friend of mine had a sister in Skull & Bones and honestly even in real life it's just basically a frat. 

 

I like season 5 (though I like, Logan, so I guess that's not too much of a surprise). I like that she liked a guy who didn't meet her and immediately want to be in a relationship with her. I liked that she tried casual dating and it went poorly--as is the case for many people in college, I found. But what I really liked was that after 1 night on the bathroom floor she immediately went to Logan and said she wasn't doing that anymore. I wish she had had the same "this isn't working out" attitude in season 6 (maybe after her birthday party? I just wish it was something she had realized on her own).

 

For me the weakest episodes of the season are Tippecanoe and Taylor Too and We Got Us A Pippi Virgin. Too much Dean kills an episode for me at this point in the series. 

[Smad]

Emily did actively try to get Lorelai back to Christopher and have her break them up when Sherry was pregnant, but it wasn't at the soap opera level of S5.

See I didn't mention this one because that has been something consistent since Lorelai got pregnant with Rory. Father and mother of a child should be married. It's both Emily's old world view and keeping up appearances. It was only in S5 though that 'good breeding' became part of the package.

 

 

The LADB gave Logan and Rory a network, like any other similar society. It would have helped Rory enormously if she'd embraced it and gotten to know the larger group better, maybe going out with the females occasionally. It would have changed her life for the better.

First of all I didn't care because Rory, Logan and R/L just wasn't something I had much interest in. I could have found the LADB interesting if we had actually gotten some great minor characters in the mix. Instead we had Finn and Colin and bimbo airheaded females. And all they basically did was drinking, pranks and other kids stuff. I guess the point was for Rory to losen up a little which I would agree she really needed. Instead all it did was make Rory view the rich life in a new light and we all know how that ended. In the end it wasn't good for her, IMO.

[blueray]

 

The LADB gave Logan and Rory a network, like any other similar society. It would have helped Rory enormously if she'd embraced it and gotten to know the larger group better, maybe going out with the females occasionally. It would have changed her life for the better.

This, I liked the LADB. It showed that Rory was changing and fell in a different crowd that she wasn't in before, which of course sets up season 6. I actually wish we got more of it. Not so much Logan and his friends (we got a lot of them), I mean more about the secret society. I agree it would have been nice to see Rory hang out with other girls from it (like Stephanie). And also make it clear that she has been accepted as a member. She is shown with a grorrela mask, chapane and her camera, which makes it seem that she was in from that point forward.

 

As for Dean's break up. It was that it was unexpected but it was sudden. Why did Dean decide that was the moment. Rory wasn't really that late for meeting him and she was sneaking out of a party which is harder then it sounds sometimes. And from his pov she was just saying goodbye to some people. That being said I remember being happy they broke up as I was so sick of Dean who ruined his marrige (with Rory)

[Kohola3]

My take on the LABD is radically different, I fear.

 

The LADB were a bunch of snotty, rich, spoiled guys who felt they were above the simple folk and authority of any type.  They felt it perfectly fine to commit larcenies (stealing from people’s homes, raiding the Gilmore’s home and indiscriminately hauling away boxes of items) and felonies (stealing yachts),  be bailed out by their wealthy parents (via their squad of attorneys), and walk away with no remorse or punishment. 

 

Other than Rory, they appeared to treat women like chattel (think milkmaid).  There wasn’t a single interesting or intellectual female in any scene – they were either vapid or drunk. The only one that had more than a line or two was whining about only being able to eat one bite of a meal or some damned thing.

 

Rory took a major turn for the worst when these idiots showed up. None of them appeared to have any sort of plans for careers except Logan and that was under duress by his father. I hardly think they were a social network that would have benefitted her in any way – except maybe to have a personal lawyer on speed dial to bail her out of messes.  They certainly did not offer anything to further her plans for a career in journalism.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Kohola3

[elang4]

I didn't really like the LADB and agree with most of your comments but I believe Rory genuinely fell for Logan and that Logan genuinely fell for her. He did change a lot for her and I think he genuinely loved her. Colin and Finn were funny at times but they did annoy me at some points!

[Melancholy]

As for Dean's break up. It was that it was unexpected but it was sudden. Why did Dean decide that was the moment. Rory wasn't really that late for meeting him and she was sneaking out of a party which is harder then it sounds sometimes. And from his pov she was just saying goodbye to some people. That being said I remember being happy they broke up as I was so sick of Dean who ruined his marrige (with Rory)

 

Yes, the whole lets Rory off ridiculously easily. Based on their previous scenes, you'd think they were heading to Rory breaking up with Dean. She's the one who seems clearly displeased with him. She was the one resisting physical intimacy. In that scene in Doose's Market, it really seems like Dean is still very much invested in the relationship (putting out a schmorgasboard of treats for her even on his limited money) while Rory is pointedly unhappy with him and his lack of intellectual merit. Her "That's what counts" when Dean couldn't up with a critique of her article but just said that he liked reading it was incredibly contemptuous and dissatisfied. It would actually be a really natural flow for Rory to have those scenes, and then, realize that she actually wanted to engage in the Yale Male Party because she's done with Dean and wants to break up with him and find a guy at her intellectual and socioeconomic level who goes to her school and to embark on a new relationship, as opposed to picking up the high school baggage again. However, the ep plays like Rory makes so many moves to distance herself from Dean and make clear that she's unhappy with him- but she can't be the one to dump him but instead, he needs to react unfairly (based on what he saw) and be the bad guy who's the dumper so Rory can put on her crying face. 

 

It's not even necessary. I mean, Rory is inevitably a bad actor because she was the other woman and broke up Dean's and Lindsey's marriage. She can't come out smelling like a rose. But since that already happened and she and Dean tried this unsatisfying relationship, I don't think it'd be that much worse of Rory to realize that she's not happy with Dean and dump him. I wouldn't fault her for realizing that she wants a Yale man with a prosperous and bright future ahead of him with the time, money, and location to entertain her like a privileged college gal at Yale instead of Dean. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Melancholy

[brightside]

The LADB were a bunch of snotty, rich, spoiled guys who felt they were above the simple folk and authority of any type.  They felt it perfectly fine to commit larcenies (stealing from people’s homes, raiding the Gilmore’s home and indiscriminately hauling away boxes of items) and felonies (stealing yachts),  be bailed out by their wealthy parents (via their squad of attorneys), and walk away with no remorse or punishment. 

 

I semi-agree with some of this, disagree strongly with some.

 

The "raiding the Gilmore’s home and indiscriminately hauling away boxes of items" is a huge exaggeration, I think. Rory asked them to come over and they cleaned out the closet they thought she pointed to without question. Lacking in logic? Certainly. But it wasn't larceny. Coming to help a friend move out is not an example of them feeling above authority. 

 

There's no defense for stealing the sewing box other than it's supposed to be a stupid harmless prank (that in this case quickly became not harmless). It's just dumb. I will say that I personally don't get why the fandom tends to jump on that more than any of Jess's thefts, but that's for another thread. The stealing the yacht, while Logan certianly went along with it, was Rory's idea. Bad influences or not, Rory was her own person who made her own choices on that one. 

 

I think the biggest failure of season 5 is one of the overall writing of the show. By the time we got to season 5, the show was pretty committed to the basic money = bad, poor = good idea (in a general sense) and the audience was made not to like Richard and Emily's "world". Then in season 5 they decided they wanted Rory to explore the more fun side of money (as per the You Jump, I Jump Jack commentary) and see that it can be almost like a superpower, that it can be fun, etc. I think they were trying to write a "Rory realizes there's more to these people"-type storyline but they never really developed the characters outside of Logan. We barely know anything about those characters--which is why it's hard for me to have an opinion on them other than appreciating Finn's one liners and thinking they're pretty harmless. 

Edited April 17, 2016 by brightside

[Smad]

I think another thing that made S5 drop in my ranking are the future Seasons. That the few good episodes in S5 are utterly ruined by what comes after. Whether it's WBB where you think ok, this should have really closed the door on Lorelai/Christopher FOREVER. Nope. 'Say Something' where Lorelai regrets never having answered Luke's 'all in' comment and lying about Christopher, basically regretting never having communicated to him how important he is to her and being honest with him. Well we all know where that went. Or 'So...Good Talk' when you think, ok now L/L are back together and even if we didn't see it they must have talked about the crap that happened. By S6 it becomes apparent that they haven't.

 

But then the later Seasons did ruin a lot of the earlier Seasons for me. Luke and Lorelai used to have a firm understanding of what was important to romantic relationships even if they didn't practise it themselves. However they very much did pactise them in their friendship which is why for me it was so jarring when they did a 180 when they got together. Rory's behaviour in early Seasons that I could always attribute to her being so sheltered and her age were actually a disturbing trend.

 

ETA: Expanding a little on the change in Luke's character I mentioned in my other post. Most people would use S6 as when Luke was character assasinated but for me it starts in S5. S6 just destroyed what was left. Why the need to give Luke anger management problems and a violent streak? Where did that suddenly come from? We have seen Luke in 2 physical altercations before S5. One was in S1 when he put Dean in a headlock which was quite frankly bizarre. The other one was stopping Jess from getting into a fight with TJ. And one time he kicked a car (note he didn't kick the Sockman). The only times he raged verbally (not counting rants against Taylor) was with Jess at the end of S3 and Jess' father. Yet we see him verbally attack a sweet elderly woman on his dark day. When he and Lorelai were broken up and he burned food in his diner he physically threw people out and I think Lane even mentions he kicked someone out who used a walker. I'm sorry but that is just so bizarre to me because it absolutely does not fit with the Luke I know. I have no clue wth ASP was trying to achieve with that. Did she think we would find that funny (throwing people out) or we needed him raging at a sweet old woman to understand his pain? It makes no sense to me.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Smad

[Ms Blue Jay]

Just watched the most boring episode, "To Live and Let Diorama", that had two (or three) small explosions towards the end of it.  I guess Lorelai telling that journalist about how her mother is a dictator, Rory feeling depressed and drunk about how Logan treats her, and -- hilariously, to me -- Dean appearing out of doggone NOWHERE to tell Luke that he's not good enough for Lorelai (as Dean was not good enough - or "enough" - for Rory) and that Lorelai will get bored and dump him.

 

I mean oh my god, these writers really pulled out all the fucking stops to put contrivances in between this couple, didn't they?  They're like obsessed demons, putting meteors and rolling balls from Indiana Jones to demolish this couple.  It's just so over the top and not realistic.  What a way to show that this couple doesn't trust each other or bother communicating.  I just found the Dean thing so OUT OF NOWHERE and funny, but not in a good way.  Was he even a cast member at that point?  "Hey Jared, we need you to come and say something shitty for 5 minutes."

Edited April 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[cantbeflapped]

And, Ms Blue Jay....that was Dean's final scene in the series! Not that I don't sometimes think that's the ending he deserved, but I am actually glad we'll see him (briefly, I hope) in the revival.

[readster]

And, Ms Blue Jay....that was Dean's final scene in the series! Not that I don't sometimes think that's the ending he deserved, but I am actually glad we'll see him (briefly, I hope) in the revival.

Dean's entire scene was written so Jared would have a paycheck because that entire episode is like thrown together with nothing making sense.

[Smad]

Dean's entire scene was written so Jared would have a paycheck because that entire episode is like thrown together with nothing making sense.

Twilight Zone-y, I'm telling you. Or Outer Limits-y.

[readster]

Twilight Zone-y, I'm telling you. Or Outer Limits-y.

The sad thing was, they tried to use it for Season 6 and instead went with April magically appearing out of nowhere and Luke being the biggest idiot on the planet.

[Taryn74]

Was he even a cast member at that point?  "Hey Jared, we need you to come and say something shitty for 5 minutes."

 

That made me laugh way too hard.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks Taryn!  You guys inspire me.  The frustration breeds humour.

 

By the way, I totally sobbed when Judy Garland's "The Man That Got Away" was playing and Luke came to Lorelai's house to kiss her.  Hence, my frustration at the writers not wanting to let this couple live.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Smad]

The sad thing was, they tried to use it for Season 6 and instead went with April magically appearing out of nowhere and Luke being the biggest idiot on the planet.

You know just go with my previous comment. For me 6.09 the aliens chose Stars Hollow for an experiment (because it's a weirdo town). So we had abductions with lobotimizations and spiking the SH water supply with drugs. But by S7 even the aliens were too depressed by what their experiment caused and slowly tried to get things back to normal.

 

By the way, I totally sobbed when Judy Garland's "The Man That Got Away" was playing and Luke came to Lorelai's house to kiss her.  Hence, my frustration at the writers not wanting to let this couple live.

Am I a monster that I have never cried even once during the whole show? If anything should have made me cry it's 'Say Something' because Lauren was awesome when she played Lorelai's breake down. But I didn't.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Smad

[moonb]

Also agree that the second half of season 5 is incoherent characterization and plot-wise. The only thing that does make sense to me is Rory's character arc. In both the premiere and finale, her grandparents are there to help her dodge and run from her questionable decisions. The Party's Over is another memorable (ymmv on that) Rory episode. 

 

ETA: possibly another semi-successful theme of season 5: mother-daughter separation, physical and emotional, as contrasted by Lane and her mom versus Rory and hers. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by moonb

[junienmomo]

Am I a monster that I have never cried even once during the whole show? If anything should have made me cry it's 'Say Something' because Lauren was awesome when she played Lorelai's breake down. But I didn't.

 

NO! You are not! I have the same problem, although I think first time through I teared up at some of the intense Luke/Jess scenes. 

Once I get my thoughts better together, I'll post over at the UO thread, because some of the episodes people love most (Bon Voyage, I'm looking at you) had so many Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot moments of illogicity before the 'emotional' finish that I was still stunned when the sensitive stuff came by. 

I DO remember waving my arms in frustration and giving instructions to the sad/crying TV character to go to person X and say one sentence Y along with "I'm sorry" and the issue will be resolved.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Welp, just cried again after Lorelai proposed to Luke :)

 

Everyone's different.  My father would cry along with me at EVERYTHING on TV.  My mother does not, however!

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Smad]

I DO remember waving my arms in frustration and giving instructions to the sad/crying TV character to go to person X and say one sentence Y along with "I'm sorry" and the issue will be resolved.

 

Well that's TV land for you. If characters acted like you think they should then where is the drama.

 

 

Welp, just cried again after Lorelai proposed to Luke :)

 

Everyone's different.  My father would cry along with me at EVERYTHING on TV.  My mother does not, however!

I envy you. I would have loved to have cried over something that happened on GG. It's not like I don't cry over stuff. 'Becoming' on Buffy used to leave me a crying mess, same with 'I Will Remember You' on Angel. I don't know really why GG never made me cry. I wanted to cry lol.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Smad

[junienmomo]

Well that's TV land for you. If characters acted like you think they should then where is the drama.

 

I love the drama!

Getting invested in characters is part of the fun of having a show that I love. There's great entertainment and fun when I watch them do something crazy, even insane.

Where my arm-waving and yelling at the TV starts is when I've concluded a character must have x trait, like, for example, Lorelai is actually capable of having a mature romantic relationship. When the character enters a situation that could be trivially solved by, oh say, TALKING to the significant other for half a minute, I have to question my basic belief.

That's when a little shouting at the screen can be therapeutic.

[Smad]

I love the drama!

Getting invested in characters is part of the fun of having a show that I love. There's great entertainment and fun when I watch them do something crazy, even insane.

Where my arm-waving and yelling at the TV starts is when I've concluded a character must have x trait, like, for example, Lorelai is actually capable of having a mature romantic relationship. When the character enters a situation that could be trivially solved by, oh say, TALKING to the significant other for half a minute, I have to question my basic belief.

That's when a little shouting at the screen can be therapeutic.

Well I think most viewers and writers subscribe to the 'characters need to drive the plot' and not 'plot needs to drive the characters' kind of storytelling. It's just that not all writers/showrunners are good at that. And it gets even harder with long running shows. Which is why I have such issues with BtVS post high-school. Whedon himself is very much into yanking characters around for plot purposes. But ASP IMO takes the cake when it comes to that. Change character behaviors, charakter backgrounds, continuity etc. to baffling degrees seems to be a specialty of hers. She could have needed someone who specialized in such things. If she weren't such a control freak...

[twoods]

Trying to watch season five so I can see all the good Luke/Lorelai stuff. I love Written in the Stars but the Brigade just came on and I have a bad taste in my mouth. She goes from supporting Marty to getting all googly eyed for Logan in a few episodes. Barf.

[fitzcarraldo]

I'm watching season five for the first time on netflix (I watched 1-4 as they aired, have rewatched those seasons, but but read about the Rory/Lorelai losing closeness and didn't want to see so stopped there).

 

Luke and Lorelai are painful to watch. Asp should have written the best story she could instead of an F you to network demands. That was not a good story. Lorelai always seemed to enjoy the flirting but stepped back from admitting Luke was into her. Why would she be in a relationship colder than that? What is in it for either of them?

 

The Rory pedestal is awful. I think I like Paris the best because they have their thing (even if Rory still puts herself on as superior) without it going there. She at least doesnt kiss her boring behind.

[junienmomo]

Seasons 5-7 are new for you?

((((((((((fitzcarraldo))))))))))

You're gonna need those hugs. 

[hippielamb]

Say Goodbye to Daisy Miller 

I like the differing POV in the opening scene. Emily crawling out the basement window always makes me laugh. When she's unhinged, you can see where Lorelai gets it.

It's interesting that Lorelai tries the friend route with Rory but it's too late. Lane's reaction to Rory and Dean and her whole scene with the band is great. I think that was the funniest bit of the episode.

A Messenger Nothing More 

The bark and cheese conversation was cute. I'm not sure whose side to take with Rory and Dean. Clearly, he wasn't honest about the state of his marriage. Rory doesn't bother to tell Dean she is going to Europe, then has her mommy deliver a break-up letter. Oof, they're both at fault. I liked the last scene between the girls. 

Written in the Stars 

The Gilmores separation is sad for them but it produces some funny moments. 

Lauren/Lorelai looks tan in this episode. Funny that she raises her hand both times as to who is at fault, Gypsy or Andrew. The town meeting was pure comedy but it has a creepy context.

As a bartender for 20+ years, I have to agree with Logan's argument. Colin was clearly a jerk to Marty, not Logan. His bad behaviour shows up later but I thought he was likable in this episode. Also, Finn is hot.

Awww Dean. He still lets Rory in after everything. I can't help it, I like him.
 

[Guest]

Written in the Stars is one of my favorite episodes. I love their dinner date, the floor show, the town meeting, etc. I do think it's weird that Luke carried that horoscope while married to someone else, but it's still cute. I agreed with Logan that he was fine in how he treated Marty. But I am a Logan fan.

Overall, from Luke Can See Her Face to Tippecanoe and Taylor Too is probably my favorite stretch in the show.

[apgold]

Been binging Season 4 and 5 which is currently being shown on UP, which seems like a replacement channel for ABC Family after it switched to Freeform.  They bleep out “hell” and “heck” but not “balls” or “whore” (as in Kirk yelling “My girlfriend’s the whore!”).  Some random thoughts….

Lorelai’s black Marc Jacobs purse is still making appearances.  It’s funny how that style of bag is no longer en vogue. Maybe b/c you could never fit anything in there other than a lipstick, cellphone and maybe a small change purse.

I love the Richard and Emily split and them slowly finding their way to reconciliation.  Do not like their treatment of Luke (Emily being passive aggressive with him and Richard trying to give him a lifestyle upgrade) but not surprising considering they are about appearances and being controlling.

I’m not happy with how they are having Chris worm his way back into Lorelai’s life.  Yes, he had a bad stretch with Sherry leaving and his dad passing.  Lorelai shouldn’t lie to Luke and vice versa.  The two keeping secrets from each other is what led to their multiple breakups.

Logan is smarmy and entitled – I don’t get Rory’s attraction to him other than he’s cute and witty.  I love MZ (especially on TGW) but Logan turns out to be a bad influence on her despite his Richard and Emily approved breeding.  And poor Marty, with Rory treating him like a eunich. 

My favorite bit is Paris hooking up with Doyle.  They are made for each other.  Love seeing Danny Strong knowing how successful his behind the camera career is in 2016.

[Taryn74]

25 minutes ago, apgold said:

Love seeing Danny Strong knowing how successful his behind the camera career is in 2016.

I know!  He's damn talented.  I always feel a little "I knew him when....." giddyness when I see his name on something.  

Even though I, of course, have never really known him at all.  Heh.

[JayInChicago]

I don't know--I feel like Marty is the classic "nice guy" who eventually expects sex or fooling around just because he's really close to a girl. That is not to say that Logan isn't a smarmy piece of work though. 

[JayInChicago]

Actually to tangent a little about Marty, some of these fit: https://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/13-reasons-why-nice-guys-are-the-worst

 

having been a "nice guy" in the past, if you can't keep your feelings above friendship level to yourself when the other party doesn't want to make the relationship physical or romantic, you are the problem. Now, Rory being Rory there is a bit of a small case for mixed signals but let's face it--she just didn't like him like that.

[FrumiusManxome]

To me Marty didn't feel like a Nice Guy in that he wasn't forcing his expectations on her. Like, he recognized they were friends, but plenty of romantic relationships begin as friends first. And he and Rory (and this is subjective) did have a sort of chemistry. So in his eyes he was feeling her and at worst she didn't feel anything for him, however, there's always the chance she'll eventually fall for him. 

True, a lot of Nice Guys share these same traits. But, it differs for me at least because he didn't get mad because she didn't like him. He did throw out his feelings and was noticeably disappointed, but he was more upset that she was choosing to be oblivious to Logan's feelings. And as someone who liked her, it was hard to hear her complain when she also was obviously into him. Especially, a jerk like Logan. Also, he did still show some interest in hanging out with her after she started dating Logan; the whole movie marathon thing. 

Now, Marty certainly had the potential to be a Fully Fleged Nice Guy, but he was dropped after this little arc so we didn't get to see how this all would have worked out. 

(I don't particularly remember his last appearance so that's not factored into this) 

[hippielamb]

16 hours ago, JayInChicago said:

I don't know--I feel like Marty is the classic "nice guy" who eventually expects sex or fooling around just because he's really close to a girl. That is not to say that Logan isn't a smarmy piece of work though. 

Yes exactly! I will never get the Marty love. Admittedly, I have issues with guys who think because they are your "friends", they are entitled to other things. We saw him helping out at the wake but how much of that was trying to get close to Rory? She certainly wasn't into it.

 

14 hours ago, FrumiusManxome said:

To me Marty didn't feel like a Nice Guy in that he wasn't forcing his expectations on her. Like, he recognized they were friends, but plenty of romantic relationships begin as friends first. And he and Rory (and this is subjective) did have a sort of chemistry. So in his eyes he was feeling her and at worst she didn't feel anything for him, however, there's always the chance she'll eventually fall for him. 

True, a lot of Nice Guys share these same traits. But, it differs for me at least because he didn't get mad because she didn't like him. He did throw out his feelings and was noticeably disappointed, but he was more upset that she was choosing to be oblivious to Logan's feelings. And as someone who liked her, it was hard to hear her complain when she also was obviously into him. Especially, a jerk like Logan. Also, he did still show some interest in hanging out with her after she started dating Logan; the whole movie marathon thing. 

Now, Marty certainly had the potential to be a Fully Fleged Nice Guy, but he was dropped after this little arc so we didn't get to see how this all would have worked out. 

(I don't particularly remember his last appearance so that's not factored into this) 

 I thought they stopped being friends after she started dating Logan, which falls into the nice guy attitude of if you date someone else, they don't want to be friends. I remember his actions after the Duck Soup night but nothing after that except in season 7. I haven't watched most of these season 5 episodes in a long time, maybe I forgot some important scene.