The Star Wars Saga

[ursula]

2 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Anakin went to Yoda for advice on how to prevent his visions from coming true, Yoda gave him advice on what to do when his visions came true. What Yoda said was great advice for someone who HAS lost a loved one, but it was bad advice to someone whose loved one is still alive and could still be saved.

Only Padme was never in danger. It was Anakin's obsession with preventing her death that caused her death. Classic self fulfilling prophecy. And yes, It was brought about (partly) by what you said - the PT era Jedi's obsession with detachment which meant they couldn't relate to someone like Anakin, not Temple born and with all his attachments. So he ended up turning to Palpatine/Sidious who preyed on his fears. Anakin didn't need a Magic Cure for Padme. He just needed someone to talk to and share his fears with. 

The ST substituted all that thematic significance for Sacred Texts (a MacGuffin of fanfiction proportions imo) and their plot convenient loopholes.

Edited August 14, 2020 by ursula

[Luckylyn]

15 hours ago, ursula said:

Only Padme was never in danger. It was Anakin's obsession with preventing her death that caused her death. Classic self fulfilling prophecy. And yes, It was brought about (partly) by what you said - the PT era Jedi's obsession with detachment which meant they couldn't relate to someone like Anakin, not Temple born and with all his attachments. So he ended up turning to Palpatine/Sidious who preyed on his fears. Anakin didn't need a Magic Cure for Padme. He just needed someone to talk to and share his fears with. 

The ST substituted all that thematic significance for Sacred Texts (a MacGuffin of fanfiction proportions imo) and their plot convenient loopholes.

Pop Culture Detective did a great video showcasing how the Jedi’s problematic approach to emotion helped lead Anakin to the Dark Side.

 

[VCRTracking]

I think the "hero" part was just to not to let those surveyed know it was about a Star Wars movie.

 

[starri]

On 8/13/2020 at 8:02 PM, Perfect Xero said:

Which is the flaw in the prequel era Jedi. They're too detached and fatalistic, they're so afraid of the dark side and focused on the future that they've lost sight of the things they can do in the present

One wonders if the Jedi ever got it, even in the distant past.  Knights of the Old Republic was set thousands of years before the prequels, and the Jedi Council was every bit as passive and ineffective as they were before the rise of the Empire.  Really, they're a bunch of cloistered assholes.  

Somebody needs to make a project about Jolee Bindo.

I think one of the reasons why I like Revenge as much as I do it because it pays off (or sets up, it's hard to determine the right nomenclature here) so many things from the original trilogy, in particular, the idea that the Jedi being good or bad is a matter of perspective.  A lesson that Yoda and Obi-Wan failed to learn, because they fucked it up a second time.

[Anduin]

47 minutes ago, starri said:

One wonders if the Jedi ever got it, even in the distant past.  Knights of the Old Republic was set thousands of years before the prequels, and the Jedi Council was every bit as passive and ineffective as they were before the rise of the Empire.  Really, they're a bunch of cloistered assholes.  

Somebody needs to make a project about Jolee Bindo.

As soon as the Jedi got organised, they got stodgy. Even as early as the Yuzhaan Vong War they were wringing and sitting on their hands.

The ones in Legacy, 130ish years in the future, were almost as bad. They were cool with Jedi having relationships, but otherwise as stodgy as ever. Didn't help there were two Clone Wars-era Jedi on the Council. Oh, and the Sith came back and thinned the herd once again. For that matter, the Dawn of the Jedi Jedi were big on dogma and tradition, 25,000 years in the past. Here's this guy with critical information. But his light and dark sides are out of whack, so we'll exile and ignore him. The comic ended before the schism that led to the development of the Sith culture, but the seeds were there. Looks like, in Legends at least, the Jedi were always like that.

It'll be interesting to see what's happening in the High Republic. I think I read somewhere that the Jedi Order isn't so organised as during the Clone Wars.

Hey, just had a theory. Creative types hate bureaucracy. Would rather just do their thing and not deal with monolithic organisations and hidebound individuals. Conciously or not, that must bleed through into their work. Plausible?

[VCRTracking]

Whats really great is George Lucas was in attendance that night and you can see his reaction to all this craziness in the full video!

 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[Anduin]

Interview with Kathleen Kennedy. Once you get beyond all the Mandalorian and Baby Yoda nonsense, the bit that stood out to me:

Quote

At the end of last year, when “The Rise of Skywalker” came out, you said you wanted to take time out to think about where the franchise is going from there. Are you still doing that?
Oh yeah. It’s an ever-evolving process. You know, when I personally came into this, George had already been having conversations with his previous actors, Carrie (Fisher) and Harrison (Ford) and Mark (Hamill) — there was a saga that the fans loved and he never finished. He always talked about doing nine movies and he was ready to complete that. And so our focus had been from the beginning on finishing that saga.

And now we’re stepping back. Stories have been told within this universe over the last 40-odd years, and there’s now the realization that this is a mythology that actually spans about 25,000 years, when you really start to look at all the different stories that have been told, whether it’s in books and games.

We just need the time to step back and really absorb what George has created, and then start to think about where things might go. That’s what we’ve been doing, and we’ve been having a great deal of fun doing it, and meeting with lots of different filmmakers and talent. There’s so many fans out there and so many filmmakers that have been influenced by “Star Wars” for so long that it’s a fantastic opportunity to get a sense of who wants to be a part of this. So that’s what we’ve been doing.

Thank God. Yes, exactly this. Legends told stories even beyond that whole period, from Dawn of the Jedi to Legacy II. Current continuity hasn't made a full century yet, though the High Republic will be roughly 200 years prior. It's a start. I want to see other parts of the galaxy, back before or especially forward. Something I haven't seen. Something where we don't know how it'll end up. Something with new characters.

And as much as I love the OT, it doesn't need to be worshipped quite as much as it is. Yes, it's great. But we don't need infinite callbacks and reverence. Give me new and different. Let it stand on its own two feet.

[Anduin]

I could have sworn there was a forum for the Obi-Wan show, but I can't find it now. Either way, Ewan MacGregor thinks that it'll only have one season. I'm fine with that. I've seen shows drag on longer than they should.

My pitch for anObi-Wan adventure has been the same since the start. He's removed from Tatooine against his will, nabbed by a bounty hunter or something, and makes his way back, with the path not running smoothly. That could fill eight episodes.

[VCRTracking]

Please note this took place BEFORE Disney bought Lucasfilm!

 

 

[BetterButter]

 

[Browncoat]

I want all of that as an actual Lego set!

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, BetterButter said:

 

That was really good.

[Kromm]

Life Day? I never dared dream Life Day would be mentioned again in ANYTHING!

[Chyromaniac]

Huh.  I was... not expecting to want to watch that.

[VCRTracking]

George Lucas’ ‘Star Wars’ Sequel Trilogy Made Leia ‘the Chosen One’ and Darth Maul the Villain

[Anduin]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

George Lucas’ ‘Star Wars’ Sequel Trilogy Made Leia ‘the Chosen One’ and Darth Maul the Villain

Yes, that's certainly what he says this week. Next week we might hear something different. I don't think there's one true clear vision of a sequel trilogy in his head. It's all subject to change unless put into production.

[benteen]

Some stuff sounds interesting there and some stuff seems old hat  I also saw in another article on the subject that George continues to not tell the truth about Greedo shooting first.  Han shot him in self-defense the first time and someone like Han is never going to let someone take the first shot at point blank range.  There's nothing in Han's character to suggest he's that stupid.  There's actual proof in the filming at the time that Han shot first and if GL wanted Han to shoot second, he would have done that back in 1977.  This is further proof of how bad a filmmaker George became as he got older.

I wanted to see Luke's Jedi Order the most and the lack of that in the sequel trilogy is an inexcusable omission.  Instead we had Rey getting Luke's "last of the Jedi" story from the original trilogy.

Edited November 12, 2020 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Some stuff sounds interesting there and some stuff seems old hat  I also saw in another article on the subject that George continues to not tell the truth about Greedo shooting first.  Han shot him in self-defense the first time and someone like Han is never going to let someone take the first shot at point blank range.  There's nothing in Han's character to suggest he's that stupid.  There's actual proof in the filming at the time that Han shot first and if GL wanted Han to shoot second, he would have done that back in 1977.  This is further proof of how bad a filmmaker George became as he got older.

I wanted to see Luke's Jedi Order the most and the lack of that in the sequel trilogy is an inexcusable omission.  Instead we had Rey getting Luke's "last of the Jedi" story from the original trilogy.

In 2015 Lucas admitted it was a retcon:

"Han Solo was going to marry Leia, and you look back and say, "Should he be a cold-blooded killer?" Because I was thinking mythologically—should he be a cowboy, should he be John Wayne? And I said, "Yeah, he should be John Wayne." And when you're John Wayne, you don't shoot people [first]—you let them have the first shot. It's a mythological reality that we hope our society pays attention to."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/george-lucas-to-feel-the-true-force-of-star-wars-he-had-to-learn-to-let-it-go/2015/11/27/d752067a-8b1f-11e5-be8b-1ae2e4f50f76_story.html

The idea of Luke training his sister(before he decided it would be Leia) in the sequels was in Lucas' original outline as revealed by the late original producer Gary Kurtz and that's probably why Lucas brought back Maul in the Clone Wars series, to set him up to be the villain in the sequels. Luke vs Maul would have beem cool. 

The writer that interviewed Lucas tweeted:

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

Han Solo was not a typical John Wayne character when he was introduced.  George Lucas has just become a terrible filmmaker with bad instincts.

[Morrigan2575]

Depending on the movie John Wayne could be pretty cut throat (looking at you The Searchers).

The books kind of went there, with Luke building the new Jedi Order on Yavin  (or maybe that was the Jedi Academy game) and, Leia being a leader of the New Republic on Coruscant. 

 

[VCRTracking]

16 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Depending on the movie John Wayne could be pretty cut throat (looking at you The Searchers).

The books kind of went there, with Luke building the new Jedi Order on Yavin  (or maybe that was the Jedi Academy game) and, Leia being a leader of the New Republic on Coruscant. 

 

But THE SEARCHERS still ends with Wayne saving his niece who was made a bride of Indians instead of killing her. When Wayne was making the final film THE SHOOTIST, for the final saloon shootout, the director wanted him to take out one of his enemies from behind. Wayne goes "You mean shoot him in the back? I don't shoot people in the back." Siegel said "Clint Eastwood would." and Wayne got pissed "I don't care what that kid does, I don't shoot people in the back!"

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

But THE SEARCHERS still ends with Wayne saving his niece who was made a bride of Indians instead of killing her. When Wayne was making the final film THE SHOOTIST, for the final saloon shootout, the director wanted him to take out one of his enemies from behind. Wayne goes "You mean shoot him in the back? I don't shoot people in the back." Siegel said "Clint Eastwood would." and Wayne got pissed "I don't care what that kid does, I don't shoot people in the back!"

True in the end John Wayne's character got over his hatred/racism enough to not kill his niece. The Shootist was the end of Wayne's career by then he was solidified in that hero persona.

I still think Han could have been John Wayne AND shot first. 😁

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Morrigan2575

[VCRTracking]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:57 AM, benteen said:

I wanted to see Luke's Jedi Order the most and the lack of that in the sequel trilogy is an inexcusable omission.  Instead we had Rey getting Luke's "last of the Jedi" story from the original trilogy.

Io9 has more detail from Lucas about his sequel storyline including how Luke would start rebuilding the Jedi Order, what happened to the remnants of the Empire, how Darth Maul became the top crime boss of the galaxy, etc:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-lucas-plans-for-his-star-wars-sequels-were-more-1845643919/amp#aoh=16052797930386&referrer=https://www.google.com&csi=1

[Danny Franks]

On 11/12/2020 at 4:14 PM, VCRTracking said:

But THE SEARCHERS still ends with Wayne saving his niece who was made a bride of Indians instead of killing her. When Wayne was making the final film THE SHOOTIST, for the final saloon shootout, the director wanted him to take out one of his enemies from behind. Wayne goes "You mean shoot him in the back? I don't shoot people in the back." Siegel said "Clint Eastwood would." and Wayne got pissed "I don't care what that kid does, I don't shoot people in the back!"

And that's why Clint Eastwood's characters have been infinitely more interesting than anything John Wayne ever played. The guy clearly bought into his own mythos and image as some kind of American hero.

As for Han... yes he would shoot first. He would shoot without warning and he wouldn't fret over it one bit. How Lucas doesn't understand this, I can't fathom. Ford is another actor who never got precious about his characters and was happy to play their darker elements - Indiana Jones shooting the sword-wielding guy with a weary sigh or Han looking foolish on multiple occasions.

[Simon Boccanegra]

19 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Ford is another actor who never got precious about his characters and was happy to play their darker elements - Indiana Jones shooting the sword-wielding guy with a weary sigh or Han looking foolish on multiple occasions.

He also shoots the fleeing she-replicant (the Joanna Cassidy one with the snake) in the back in Blade Runner. He's overmatched by each of the four of them in a fair fight.

[WritinMan]

On 11/13/2020 at 10:13 AM, VCRTracking said:

Io9 has more detail from Lucas about his sequel storyline including how Luke would start rebuilding the Jedi Order, what happened to the remnants of the Empire, how Darth Maul became the top crime boss of the galaxy, etc:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-lucas-plans-for-his-star-wars-sequels-were-more-1845643919/amp#aoh=16052797930386&referrer=https://www.google.com&csi=1

That sounds much more interesting than the movies we got.

[Kel Varnsen]

So Storm Troopers and other Imperials acting like insurgents after the Iraq war is basically what we are getting in The Mandolorian right?

Although I am not sure what is dumber, Darth Maul surviving because he looks cool or Boba Fett surviving because he looks cool. Also if Darth Maul survived that battle why couldn't Qui-gon?

Edited November 14, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So Storm Troopers and other Imperials acting like insurgents after the Iraq war is basically what we are getting in The Mandolorian right?

Although I am not sure what is dumber, Darth Maul surviving because he looks cool or Boba Fett surviving because he looks cool. Also if Darth Maul survived that battle why couldn't Qui-gon?

Possibly. Though I saw it as trying to hold on to the old order, pretend everything was normal.

I dunno. Lucas just likes Maul.

[Danny Franks]

15 hours ago, WritinMan said:

That sounds much more interesting than the movies we got.

With George Lucas in charge? It wouldn't have been.

12 hours ago, Anduin said:

Lucas just likes Maul.

For reasons passing understanding. Darth Maul is one of the least compelling villains in the history of cinema. There's just nothing to him at all. He's fine as muscle for the real villain, but the idea of him being a mastermind worthy of building a trilogy around is... not too far from the idea of putting a cartoon rabbit horse into the movies as a source of "comedy."

[Anduin]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

With George Lucas in charge? It wouldn't have been.

For reasons passing understanding. Darth Maul is one of the least compelling villains in the history of cinema. There's just nothing to him at all. He's fine as muscle for the real villain, but the idea of him being a mastermind worthy of building a trilogy around is... not too far from the idea of putting a cartoon rabbit horse into the movies as a source of "comedy."

And yet, Filoni desperately tried. Even after SW went to Disney, Maul kept coming back. I didn't watch Rebels, but I did see Solo. I almost groaned out loud when he turned up at the end. It was the perfect finish to a terrible movie.

Other universes have continued fine without their creator being involved. Look at comics, or some long-running video game series. Why must we stick to Lucas' ideas after he officially surrendered control?

[benteen]

Although bringing Maul back was dodgy and something I wouldn't have done, the animated series did a great job with him.  He was written as a more interesting character and Sam Witwer absolutely sold the hell out of the character with his performance. 

[VCRTracking]

As much as I would have loved to see Leia be the center of the sequel trilogy, Carrie Fisher's death at the end of 2016, would have hampered it as much as it did the movies that ended up being made. They were rushed into production by Bob Iger so the first one came out in 2015 and the second in 2017. Lucas always took more time for preproduction and a three year gap between movies, so Carrie would have only been in the first one before she died.

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, Anduin said:

And yet, Filoni desperately tried. Even after SW went to Disney, Maul kept coming back. I didn't watch Rebels, but I did see Solo. I almost groaned out loud when he turned up at the end. It was the perfect finish to a terrible movie.

Other universes have continued fine without their creator being involved. Look at comics, or some long-running video game series. Why must we stick to Lucas' ideas after he officially surrendered control?

Darth Maul was great I'm Rebels and The Clone Wars...at least IMO. 

[WritinMan]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

With George Lucas in charge? It wouldn't have been.

 

Lucas could have easily done much better than the poorly thought-out train wreck we got for the sequels.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, WritinMan said:

Lucas could have easily done much better than the poorly thought-out train wreck we got for the sequels.

All three sequel movies were easily better than the prequels. I'd rather never see anything written and directed by George Lucas again, thank you very much.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

All three sequel movies were easily better than the prequels. I'd rather never see anything written and directed by George Lucas again, thank you very much.

I think one thing that the sequels sort of showed and that the Mandolorian really showed is that the best way to do a star wars story is to keep the plot super simple. Most Mandolorian episodes can be described in a single sentence. The original trilogy is pretty simple too. By comparison the prequels are freakin complicated. I watched them a couple of years ago with my daughter when she was 5. I had seen them before and I still had trouble keeping track of everything that was going on and why. I can't imagine how she kept track of everything.

 

[benteen]

The sequel trilogy was better in terms of acting, special effects, dialog, humor, etc. but in terms of story and story arc, the prequel trilogy was better.  The sequel trilogy plots were a mess with no clear vision whatsoever.  It was just a cash grab for Disney, who decided to do a movie exactly like the original trilogy and add nothing new to it.  They hired JJ Abrams, who doesn't have a shred of originality in him as a filmmaker.  They then decided to hire Rian Johnson, an overrated and relatively unaccomplished filmmaker and bizarrely give him full authority to freelance a movie that crapped on the original trilogy, delve into Looney Tunes humor and worst of all, made the three main characters all less interesting in the process.  The Last Jedi plays like a final film in a trilogy instead of a middle one.  To me, it was the response to that film that permanently damaged the Star Wars movie brand.

Whatever the flaws of the sequel trilogy, it is actually more watchable than the sequel trilogy is.

Edited November 18, 2020 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

The Clone Wars series and The Mandalorian make up for any disappointment in the prequels and sequels for me. The latter expands the mythos with new concepts and ideas in a better way and the latter takes the familiar and plays with them in fun ways. Television seems the best way forward for Star Wars. If one episode isnt good the next one will be. They can also take risks. Fans demand too much from the theatrical movies that a filmmaker is forced to play it safe.

In regards to the sequels, Adam Driver's back must be aching after carrying all three movies. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Danny Franks]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:32 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I think one thing that the sequels sort of showed and that the Mandolorian really showed is that the best way to do a star wars story is to keep the plot super simple. Most Mandolorian episodes can be described in a single sentence. The original trilogy is pretty simple too. By comparison the prequels are freakin complicated. I watched them a couple of years ago with my daughter when she was 5. I had seen them before and I still had trouble keeping track of everything that was going on and why. I can't imagine how she kept track of everything.

 

The prequels are definitely overly-complicated. But they're also blighted by the fact that, when you stop to figure out what the story actually is, there are are load of things that make no sense. And because you've had to piece the plot together, those inconsistencies and bits of broken logic stand out all the more.

Star Wars is a simple property - a space opera pitting good against evil, plucky underdogs against space fascists. It definitely doesn't lend itself to exhaustive examinations of the politics, economics and social issues of a galactic civilisation. Generally, the more something is explained in the Star Wars universe, the less compelling it becomes.

Take Yoda's mystical explanation of what the Force is in Empire and compare it to the quasi-medical drivel of the Midichlorians and the apparent ability to confirm someone's Jedi-ness with a simple blood test. I'll never understand anyone who thinks that anything in the sequels was worse than that.

[VCRTracking]

I personally don't think they're that complicated. Anybody who has some knowledge of world history can pretty much get what Lucas is basing a lot of the plot from. Myths though, by their nature are the opposite of history and science. Myths are primal and emotional. The best moments in the prequels and in Star Wars in general tap into that. 

Excerpts from a Polygon article about the new Prequels archive book and features Lucas' quotes:

"Who are the Whills?

Hardcore fans will know that Lucas originally meant for the saga to be a tale from a fictional bible known as the “Journal of the Whills,” but we never got an explanation of the Whills in the film. Lucas says he originally would have explained more about them in the prequels, but decided not to after the poor reception over the midi-chlorians lore. Simply put, Whills are “a microscopic single-celled life-form” that have a symbiotic relationship with the midi-chlorians and who feed on the Force. They gave the command to the midi-chlorians to make Anakin, with Lucas stating he was touched by God, who in this case “happened to be one-celled animals”.

"You’re going to destroy the franchise”

When Lucas initially told 20th Century Fox that he was making the story of how Anakin became Darth Vader, they were as excited as anybody else. Then he told them that, in the first film, Anakin would be 10 years old. “You’re going to destroy the franchise; you’re going to destroy everything!” Lucas explains that he told people at Lucasfilm he was “making a movie that nobody wants to see”, but would rather do that than telling the same story over and over. And to be fair to George, it still made a billion dollars."

"Corrupt corporations

Lucas acknowledges that people were upset that the prequels opened with the trade blockade and dispute, but nevertheless says “that’s how wars start.” He goes on to say that The Phantom Menace starts with “corrupt corporations” doing bad things in secret and that all corporations care about is making money, while everyone else is trying to do the right thing but are completely overwhelmed. The two main themes are about becoming a bad person and democracy being given away; “there’s no coup, there’s no rebellion, there’s no nothing. They vote it in, which is what happens in real life.”

https://www.polygon.com/star-wars/2020/11/10/21558304/darth-maul-sequel-trilogy-george-lucas-princess-leia-star-wars-archives-prequel-book

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I personally don't think they're that complicated. Anybody who has some knowledge of world history can pretty much get what Lucas is basing a lot of the plot from. Myths though, by their nature are the opposite of history and science. 

I don't know I think they were more complicated then they needed to be. Looking back at my comments it was not clear at all who ordered the clones, or why Jango was working for the clone side and the droid side, why the Republic just accepted the mystery clones, why no one noticed that the clones looked exactly like the guy who tried to kill Obi-wan and why Palpatine made the clones a mystery instead of just saying he ordered them. Plus I am still not clear why the Republic didn't just let the separatists leave the republic. It is not huge stuff in the end, but for movies that Lucas kept saying were kids movies it was a bit much. Especially when everyone talks about how the Star Wars movies were based on old cowboy and samurai movies and old serials.

[starri]

For all of Lucas' deficiencies as a director, I truly admire how much he clearly loves both movies and the process of film-making.  He's also very creative, but he didn't have anyone to temper those impulses by the prequels.  A lot of the good stuff in the prequels I would largely credit to Tom Stoppard and Carrie doing script doctoring under the radar.  

If you want to see Lucas thinking on his feet, the first licensed Star Wars novel (Splinter of the Mind's Eye, for which Disney has been withholding royalties, a separate discussion) began as an idea for a cheap sequel had the original not been a big hit.  Not sure you can get Ford back?  No problem, Han's not in it.  No money for special effects?  Set it on a fog-bound planet.

[VCRTracking]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't know I think they were more complicated then they needed to be. Looking back at my comments it was not clear at all who ordered the clones, or why Jango was working for the clone side and the droid side, why the Republic just accepted the mystery clones, why no one noticed that the clones looked exactly like the guy who tried to kill Obi-wan and why Palpatine made the clones a mystery instead of just saying he ordered them. Plus I am still not clear why the Republic didn't just let the separatists leave the republic. It is not huge stuff in the end, but for movies that Lucas kept saying were kids movies it was a bit much. Especially when everyone talks about how the Star Wars movies were based on old cowboy and samurai movies and old serials.

Each movie is a plot to get Palpatine further in his goals. First become Supreme Chancellor, then acquire emergency powers over a vast army and finally turn the Republic into an Empire and kill the Jedi. There are things that weren't part of Palpatine's overall plan: Darth Maul getting killed at the end of TPM(even though it turns out he didn't die), Anakin and Padme having kids and them being hidden, Obi-Wan and Yoda surviving and Anakin ending up so messed up after fighting Obi-Wan that he had to be turned into a cyborg.

[Zuleikha]

I don't know I think they were more complicated then they needed to be.

I agree. I still don't understand why the Jedis accepted the clone army when their origins were so dodgy. Also, why did Obi Wan attack Jango when Jango was cooperative and had his son with him? I'm not willing to re-watch Attack of the Clones to see if it would make more sense on repeat viewing.

My problem with the trade wars wasn't that a trade war is a bad concept. It was that I didn't understand why I was supposed to care about Naboo specifically. I needed more exposition about the Republic and treaties and how events on a planet portrayed as a small backwater could matter. I was just super confused about the relevance of everything. A poster here explained it all to me (thanks to whoever you were and sorry I forgot your username!), and the ideas were sound. But that's the prequel in a nutshell. Sound ideas, disastrous execution.

[Anduin]

54 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

 

I agree. I still don't understand why the Jedis accepted the clone army when their origins were so dodgy. Also, why did Obi Wan attack Jango when Jango was cooperative and had his son with him? I'm not willing to re-watch Attack of the Clones to see if it would make more sense on repeat viewing.

My problem with the trade wars wasn't that a trade war is a bad concept. It was that I didn't understand why I was supposed to care about Naboo specifically. I needed more exposition about the Republic and treaties and how events on a planet portrayed as a small backwater could matter. I was just super confused about the relevance of everything. A poster here explained it all to me (thanks to whoever you were and sorry I forgot your username!), and the ideas were sound. But that's the prequel in a nutshell. Sound ideas, disastrous execution.

After Obi-Wan talks to Jango, he calls home. Didn't Yoda or Mace tell him to bring Jango to Coruscant for questioning? One of the two. Obi-Wan goes to bring Jango in, somehow. Maybe he intended to requisition a larger ship. Jango responds badly. They fight.

I agree about the prequels. Some great ideas, some sloppy execution. One of my dreams is to rewrite the whole saga, from TPM to TROS, so the whole thing makes sense and is thematically consistent. But I'm not sure it's possible. The best way would be to take the starting premise and continue on through that line of thinking, or the end and work backwards. But that's pure daydream. I've done bits and pieces, but I don't think I have the mental stamina to continue.

[Anduin]

I forgot to post this when it first popped up.

 

[xaxat]

Does George Lucas still own the rights to the original versions of the first trilogy? Is there any chance that Disney can release a Criterion Collection type restoration of them?

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Does George Lucas still own the rights to the original versions of the first trilogy? Is there any chance that Disney can release a Criterion Collection type restoration of them?

I don't know, but I doubt it'll happen while he's alive to complain. The maclunkey versions are apparently the ones he wants people to see. Yeah, even if he has no official power, he still casts a long shadow.

Frankly, I go back and forth on his changes. I write myself, and I keep going back to my old stuff and changing bits here and there. I think I'm making them better, but I can't be objective on the matter. Of course, I'm not actually properly published. Less than a dozen people have read my work, and only then the original versions. If I was published, it might be a different matter.

OTOH, JRR Tolkien, Terry Pratchett, and Raymond Feist have released rewrites of their published books. From what I've seen of the original version of the Hobbit, I the second edition changes were for the better. I haven't read Pratchett's original Carpet People or Feist's new edition of Magician.

Short version, I prefer the original cinematic Star Wars. But I can't be sure they're actually better. It'd be nice to have the official legal versions as good as could be made, rather than having to rely on old DVD rips and the Despecialised versions.

[Browncoat]

8 hours ago, Anduin said:

Frankly, I go back and forth on his changes

Most of them don't bother me, like the random addition of creatures and people, but there are two in the original that almost make me angry.  One, obviously, is Han shooting Greedo, but the other is the ridiculous bit of CGI Jabba chatting with Han -- was it in the hangar with the Millennium Falcon?  I've only seen it once or twice (despite having seen the original movie about a hundred times), and I've tried to erase it from my brain.  It detracts from the effect puppet Jabba has later -- puppet Jabba is menacing and disgusting.  CGI Jabba is flat and idiotic.

And I will always have a soft spot in my heart for "Yub Nub".