S01.E06: Episode Six

[ribboninthesky1]

10 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

According to Wikipedia the novel did have a more ambiguous ending with Roper making his deal, Burr(who's a man in the book) and his American allies discredited. Pine and Jed do get to end up together and live in England.

It wasn't until this final episode that I realized how similar the basic story is to the License to Kill, the second and last Timothy Dalton James Bond movie. In it a drug lord named Sanchez kidnaps and mutilates Bond's CIA ally Felix Leiter and kills his wife on their honeymoon. A revenge seeking Bond goes rogue, pretending to be an assassin whom the drug lord hires and starts to trust and him, thinking he's a kindred spirit, making him part of his inner circle. The drug lord's girlfriend(who he sadistically abuses) becomes romantically involved with Bond and helps him take him down Sanchez by framing an associate of his. Bond destroys the drug lord's whole smuggling operation and kills him.

License to Kill came out in 1989 and John Le Carre's The Night Manager was published in 1993. It's plausible Le Carre saw License to Kill and thought he could write a more realistic version of that story!

Interesting points about the Licence to Kill parallels. Dalton is probably my favorite Bond (he just edges out Craig for me), but there are key differences for me:

Bond is a well-trained spy and assassin, so posing as an assassin-for-hire wouldn't be a stretch. I don't recall Sanchez making Bond his number two and having him broker major deals out of the blue. (The downfall of Corky rang entirely false to me because the man, who was probably always a messy drunk, managed to work for Roper for years, if not decades, presumably without fucking up. Even if Corky was "demoted," it's another matter entirely for Roper to so easily perceive him as a liability and mole.)  

Bond got lucky with being found, bound and unconscious, by Sanchez and his crew in the decimated warehouse with the Hong Kong narcotics agents who were working undercover to bust Sanchez.  It provided some increased credibility.  

Dalton, while also being quite handsome, managed to convey a lot even when he wasn't speaking.  Having watched his two films recently, I was highly amused at some of Dalton's facial expressions, particularly in The Living Daylights. He had a steely, ruthless yet deliberate air that may or may not have worked in this context (not familiar with the source material, so not sure how Pine was in the books). I suspect that kind of disposition would have made more sense from a "Roper makes a complete stranger his number two with little vetting" perspective, but mileage varies.

Part of my problem with Hiddleston's performance wasn't that I expected him to be Bond-esque, but I never believed his portrayal of a man pretending to be a psychopathic (per Angela), ruthless criminal. It's why I kept thinking that Roper was on to him - to me, Pine often seemed ready to jump out of his skin versus a "still waters run deep" even-keeled quality. Some of it was the writing and direction. Introverted personalities take a certain kind of talent to convey on screen, and it's not his strength.  

[Captanne]

I agree with your post, ribboninthesky1, mainly because of your assessment of Corky's role in the story and Hiddleston's performance.  It goes back to my point on the prior page -- the characters simply had no depth.  I could be "told" their motivation but I just didn't believe it.  (Really?  Pine becomes an undercover genius assassin who is able to take down the well-established "Most Evil Man in the World" just because he fell in love with a hotel guest?)

 

ETA:  I meant to add, I am not a Bond person so I don't know anything to comment on about those movies.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Captanne

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, rur said:

23 hours ago, lulee said:

I missed something - what led Angela's lone office associate to call Dromgoole when he did?

When she was trapped behind the door, she was doing something with her phone. I think she was texting him that she was in a tight spot. Or at least that's what happened in the show in my head. 

When Angela was trapped behind the door, she texted her American colleague, and he made the call to the front desk about a package that needed a signature. That's what got the bodyguard out of the hotel room.

As for Dromgoole, didn't he disavow his participation because of that meeting in London with everyone?

Edited May 26, 2016 by dubbel zout

[rur]

Thanks … I could never keep the names straight.

[attica]

Quote

Don't think Burr does, either. 

Leonard Burr does also appear in The Secret Pilgrim.

For people interested in what it's like to Night Manage in hotels, there's this book, which is like the Kitchen Confidential for hotels.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

In The Night Manager's Finale, The Bad Guys Finally Clock Who's Boss

Three cheers for ass-kicking tradecraft!

[scrb]

A little too easy for Pine to boobytrap the weapons and transfer the money.

Roper was too cocky about not being legally compromised since Birch was the frontman.  But sine Birch was a faked identity, would that fly?  He was arrested anyways.

The thing you have to kind of admire about Roper is that he lived well with his ill-gotten lucre, always going to the best places, with an entourage.  He boasted that he'd be sipping 30-year old scotch or whatever it was.

Guess that was suppose to be a taunt at the civil servant who brought him down, trying to stoke that class envy.

[Neurochick]

I loved the episode.  See, Roper, Dickie, was a greedy pig, he was motivated by money.  When someone's motivated by money, they're easy to fuck with, because you wave a dollar in front of them and they do what you want.  That's why Pine said, "You let Jed go, you'll get your money."  That's all Roper cared about, money.  Also, I knew that racist comment he made to the Middle Eastern men would NOT go over well, "little brown rats?"  Oh hell no baby.  See, Roper lost it then, he lost control.  When a person who is always in control, who always wins, loses control, they go to nut city.  

I was wondering why Pine was stealing the cash and why he blew up the weapons, but at the very end, it was all clear.  Pine knew Roper would probably use his connections to get off; but if someone thought he stole from him...

I loved Angela's face when she realized what was happening as the police officers were replaced by the wronged buyer's henchmen.  She realized that Pine had his own agenda .  Angela looked at Pine and was like, "Oh shit, what a fucking double cross."   The only thing Pine didn't do was say, "deuces, motherfucker," to little Dickie.  

Edited May 27, 2016 by Neurochick

[kfree9]

Quote

When she was trapped behind the door, she was doing something with her phone. I think she was texting him that she was in a tight spot. Or at least that's what happened in the show in my head. 

When Angela was trapped behind the door, she texted her American colleague,

 

Also, I think when he wanted to give her a gun before she left she didn't want it and said, "I'm British! I've got a phone!" Or did I mishear her?

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get why Pine was purposely trying to bring attention to Jed and himself being all flirty at the bar? With his, "Smile at me. Funny, funny, joke," thing.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, kfree9 said:

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't get why Pine was purposely trying to bring attention to Jed and himself being all flirty at the bar? With his, "Smile at me. Funny, funny, joke," thing.

I think it's because he suspected Roper would be more suspicious of a serious conversation between two people who aren't supposed to be that close than a light conversation.

[Captanne]

Hiddleston over played it and it was a terribly performed, awkward scene -- but I agree with Irlandesa -- I think the intention was to show two people having "light conversation" at the bar.  What Hiddleston did, though, was make it look like his shins were on fire.  That's "bad acting".  

[dubbel zout]

Jed and Pine were terrible at hiding their attraction to each other. 

I loved Angela's face when she realized what was happening as the police officers were replaced by the wronged buyer's henchmen.  She realized that Pine had his own agenda .

I don't think that was Pine's doing, I think that was the wronged buyer's doing. Otherwise, why show up at the hotel just to watch Roper's group leave? He wouldn't have known Roper was going to be arrested in the first place.

Edited May 27, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think that was Pine's doing, I think that was the wronged buyer's doing. Otherwise, why show up at the hotel just to watch Roper's group leave? He wouldn't have known Roper was going to be arrested in the first place.

Pine was the one who stole the 300mil and blew up the weapons; that's what he was doing when he looked at his cell phone and pretended he was authorizing the transaction.  Remember he was talking to the head chef about "if his brother was still active."  Pine might not have known exactly what the wronged buyers would do, but I'm sure it didn't surprise him.

What I did think was strange was Pine worried about that man, who Pine eventually drowned in the pool, recognizing him from the hotel.  To me that made no sense, it had been years since Pine had seen him, besides that guy was so into booze, hookers and coke that he probably wouldn't have remembered Pine if he met him last week.

I did think it was cute at the very end when the "night manager" asked Pine if he needed anything. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Neurochick

[Sunnydayman]

On May 2, 2016 at 8:43 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I binge-watched this series in two days.  It was beautifully shot, and I appreciated the sumptuous locations.  The actors did what they could with the material.  I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop with a few characters - Angela, Jed, and especially Jonathan.  The book ending mentioned upthread made a lot more sense than what I saw. 

I'm certain that I was meant to be impressed with Hiddleston, and I wasn't.  His best overall scene was opposite Angela in the Cairo hotel room.  There were so many close-ups wasted beyond seeing his handsome face, and I have to agree with someone in one of the earlier threads about Hiddleston as a cipher. Hiddleston's performance as Pine wasn't at all subtle yet managed to be bland, IMO.  I also think it was poor direction, as Hiddleston never seemed comfortable in the role. With regard to Pine the character, there seemed to be more telling than showing.      

Also, it's a good thing that Hiddleston's fight scenes were against considerably smaller men - he was too posh-like for me to believe he could take a full-bodied man down. If this was his "I could be Bond" performance, he's got some work to do.  Daniel Craig is a tough act to follow, especially with the physicality.   

Laurie was menacing enough, but I also thought that his chemistry with Hiddleston was off.  I kept thinking he was on to him the whole time, and that's how Laurie seemed to play it. Yet, Roper went from being grateful for his son's life to making Pine his number two in a matter of weeks or months with absolutely zero effort from Pine, and I was baffled. Incongruity between the writing and performance was the strongest in their scenes. I often felt that Laurie and Hiddleston were given different scripts.  

Debicki was good, but I also thought she was miscast.  I never bought that Jed was so naive and blind about Roper because Debicki has a keen, intelligent air about her.  She was supposed to be vulnerable, yet came across willfully obtuse. In truth, I think she and Natasha Little should have switched roles. 

Ultimately, Olivia Colman saved this series for me (with a very honorable mention to Tom Holland).  Most of the time, I was invested in her.  Beyond the visual feast this series provided, I wasn't particularly interested in what Jonathan was doing.        

Daniel Craig is a horrible Bond.  He is a meat clever in a scalpe's world.  Hiddleston would a great successor to Pierce Brosnan but if Craig is your style I would agree that TH will disappoint.  

Hugh Laurie has been a favorite of mine so I was a kid.  He can be funny as an upper clas twit and convincing as surgeon or arms dealer.  I thought his chemistry was solid with all the male characters.  His relationship with the Jed character was a older rich guy compliant with a compliant young thing.  Her emotions were a bit over the top (concerning Pine) given the stakes involved. 

I wasn't a fan of Colman's character or the premise for the show in general.  Another Roper will have to be created to take his place as the job he does needs doing.  Tobias Menzies' character should have had her killed by Episode 3.

[Knuckles]

Tom Hollander's Corky was pitch perfect..the oily little fixer. And, the most acute and dangerous man on Roper's staff. Yeah, he still had Frisky, but not the intelligence or insight that a guy like Corky brings. Also, the second is always clawing to stay in position...while Roper let his guard down...as a grand seigneur.

I think it amused Roper to bring Pine onboard...it discomfited Corky, keeping him on his toes, and his other second, Lord Redface. Neither can ever be allowed to feel too secure. The premise gave way when Roper found himself liking Pine...and enjoying Pine's attraction to Jed while keeping ownership of her himself. Another right of alpha male.

Pine was a little too clever, but his military background was supposed to provide some explanation for his expertise. He was clearly not simply a foot soldier in the British forces...you had the idea that he was exSAS or equivalent. In order to enjoy Le Carre's world, you have fill in a lot of this stuff for yourself..he merely suggests. On another note, I did enjoy seeing the actor I think of as Brutus from the old show Rome get taken down in the finale...this actor always bites it in the end

[cakes1975]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 9:53 AM, Neurochick said:

What I did think was strange was Pine worried about that man, who Pine eventually drowned in the pool, recognizing him from the hotel.  To me that made no sense, it had been years since Pine had seen him, besides that guy was so into booze, hookers and coke that he probably wouldn't have remembered Pine if he met him last week.

 

 

 Pine was nervous about Freddie Hamid because his family owned the hotel and Pine was sure that at some point he might realize that he had seen him before, which he did right before Pine "drowned" him. Freddie's father had hired him to be the night manager.

What I really liked this story is how they used various forms of bigotry to motivate the actions of several characters. Sofi/Samira went to Pine to give him the info she had on Freddie because he was English (white savior). Pine was moved to help because he has a 'white knight complex',  which is also why he was drawn to the woman in Devon and to Jed. Angela was look down upon by her colleagues in MI because she is not of their 'class', Everything she brought to them was side-eyed and her section seemed to be full of smart, working-class 2nd generation Brits-of-color.

Pine on the other hand said a few thing's to the agent that he gave Sofi papers to that gave me the impression that he had been SAS of some other type of special forces while he was in the military. Roper and Sandy(?) looked down on him even after knowing some of his history because a middle-class 2nd gen soldier would not lower himself to work as a night manager unless he had some serious issues. This is what made it easy to buy him as the guy with the fake Devon passport, and roper could turn him into Andrew Birch in order to bind him to his operation and make him a fall guy for later. This bigotry is also why he could not see Jed being drawn to him for anything other than a quickie. Roper thought of Jed as a beautiful girl from the wrong side of the tracks who would never leave her sugar daddy for a glorified servant.

Roper and Tobias Menzies  character and their MI6 and CIA cohorts were looking to re-draw the map of the Middle-East to ensure maximum control for themselves (not sure this is not true in reality). Roper contempt for his customers was always obvious to me and when he made the slur I knew his goose would be thoroughly cooked.

Everything in this series was based on the assumptions of others on a man who was not in his perceived place.

[thuganomics85]

Finally got around to this!  I'm glad that gave it an overall solid ending (even if a door is left opened to revisit these characters), although I was surprised that it was such a happy one.  I thought for sure someone was going to die.  In particular, I thought for sure this was going to end with Pine nobly sacrificing himself somehow, and giving this a good old "bittersweet" ending.  So, I'm surprise that wasn't the case and he simply flat-out outplayed Roper's smug ass.  Never underestimate Loki!

While I won't say that Roper or Hugh Laurie's performance will go down as the greatest villain of all time, I still enjoyed his quieter take on the role, and how what kind of made him scarier was that he was so casual about his horrible acts.  It just made him come off like someone I could almost see existing in real life and probably does.  And then I enjoyed when it all came apart and we see the temperamental, impulsive, and apparently racist terror underneath.  I have to think this is the end of the character, but I enjoyed the journey it took to take him down.

Pine and Jed really couldn't have made it more obvious that there was something going on with them, whenever they were in public.  At least Jed managed to live to see her son again.  I guess the final scene left the door open for them to meet up again, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't.  I didn't hate them or anything, but I like the idea of that their closest and intimacy came from this situation, but once they're back into the real world, they simply are meant to be together.

Drumgoole's face when he realized he just got his ass handed to him, was priceless.  Tobias Menzies is awesome.

But still not as awesome as Olivia Coleman!  Loved Angela saving Jed, her interactions with Joel, and getting to have a face-off with Roper.  Wish we got more of that, but I'm glad they got one scene for her to play off Hugh Laurie.  Olivia Coleman really is becoming one of my favorites on television between this and Broadchurch.

Overall, not the greatest series, but a fun enough six hours with beautiful scenery and great actors.  Sure, I still think a lot of this might have been one long audition by Tom Hiddleston to be James Bond (and maybe even Hugh Laurie fielding out any potential big baddie roles in Hollywood), but I didn't feel like I was wasting my time.

[AllAboutMBTV]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but for those looking to prolong their Olivia Colman love, check out "Rev." on free Hulu. She plays the wife of an inner-city vicar -- who's played by Tom (Corky) Hollander. It's ostensibly a sitcom, but it has some serious moments as well. There are 19 episodes over three seasons. Very enjoyable with a great cast. I hope a fourth season gets made someday.

[ladders]

On 3/30/2016 at 0:07 PM, numbnut said:

The romance stuff was awkward; Pike had no chemistry with Jed or with the strange woman in episode 1, so the revenge motivation felt hollow. The issue with Jed's son was so underwritten; they should have left it out. Overall, this was meh. The storytelling felt more contrived than authentic, much like Suzanne Bier's films.

I really liked the series overall, but I do agree with the point about the romance with the woman in episode 1. The woman seems somewhat intriguing, but Pine has essentially one businesslike conversation with her before she is attacked, and we are to believe he spends years plotting revenge? I get that he feels guilty, but the actions he takes are akin to someone with a locked-in motivation, and I didn't buy this. (License to Kill, as others mentioned, does a better job of it.)

I found the Pine-Jed relationship more convincing. The Roper character functions as a benefactor to all those around him, and since he is buying loyalty it makes sense for these characters to relate to one another more than him. He is a damaging man and this gives them something in common.

[Valmarmar]

I do feel Pine was motivated to give intel to Angela due to guilt over Sophie. But, when he met Angela for the first time in the restaurant, and she made the "it's about my country" speech, he seemed to "see" the bigger (patriotic) picture to go all in.   Maybe it was what I wanted to see from him. He never answered her question out loud. (I don't think ! )

[Captanne]

I thought the whole thing was shallow as hell.

[NumberCruncher]

10 hours ago, Valmarmar said:

I do feel Pine was motivated to give intel to Angela due to guilt over Sophie. But, when he met Angela for the first time in the restaurant, and she made the "it's about my country" speech, he seemed to "see" the bigger (patriotic) picture to go all in.   Maybe it was what I wanted to see from him. He never answered her question out loud. (I don't think ! )

I agree with this.  I also look back at how freaked out Pine was in the first episode when he saw what was on the supply list that Sophie gave him.  He later verbalized this fear of anyone in possession of Napalm so it wasn't just about avenging her--he wanted to stop whatever mass destruction Roper or his buyers had in mind.

Edited June 2, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Haleth]

I just binge watched this and thought it was marvelous.  The early episodes brought the pretty with Hiddleston and Mallorca.  I could watch that show all day.  I thought Hiddleston and Laurie were fine in their roles, but Olivia Colman was outstanding.  Man, I will remember her monologue in the penultimate episode about the children at the sports day for a long time.  So very well done.  She and David Harewood (I didn't know he was British) deserve a spin off of their own, as long as she is always pregnant.  LOL

Edited June 18, 2016 by Haleth

[Dagny]

On 5/25/2016 at 9:27 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Part of my problem with Hiddleston's performance wasn't that I expected him to be Bond-esque, but I never believed his portrayal of a man pretending to be a psychopathic (per Angela), ruthless criminal. It's why I kept thinking that Roper was on to him - to me, Pine often seemed ready to jump out of his skin versus a "still waters run deep" even-keeled quality. Some of it was the writing and direction. Introverted personalities take a certain kind of talent to convey on screen, and it's not his strength.  

This part bothered me because Angela told him he had to be the thug that snaps at a moments notice, but in most scenes with Roper, his inner Night Manager came out. I don't know it that is an indictment of Roper & his observational skill or Hiddleston's performance.

One of my big problems with Bond is when he goes on his mad revenge episodes because of a woman he slept with once. Really? He should be a walking STI with all the people he boinked.  (heh, boinked passed spell checker). He become so emotionally attached that he goes on a killing spree and burns his professional career. sigh.

[Milburn Stone]

On May 26, 2016 at 7:43 PM, Neurochick said:

I loved the episode.

Megadittoes.

[beanyk]

Only just watched the series. As it progressed, the Licence to Kill comparison got stronger and stronger in my mind, so I'm not surprised to see it come up here. I also think there's some overlap with Tomorrow Never Dies, with the spotless public villain and the mistress/lover who pays for betraying him (OK, that's quite generic Bond).

As many have pointed out already, Pine and Jed's mooniness was ridiculously OTT and bound to lead to trouble. I also didn't care for Hiddleston's huge smile/laugh as a nervous tic. And Laurie's repeated "No!" at the end seemed ... unimaginative. Like Don Lockwood's improvising romantic dialog with "I love you! I love you! I love you!"

 

On 5/27/2016 at 9:10 PM, Sunnydayman said:

Daniel Craig is a horrible Bond.  He is a meat clever in a scalpe's world.  Hiddleston would a great successor to Pierce Brosnan but if Craig is your style I would agree that TH will disappoint.  

I disagree about Craig, but even more so about Brosnan. I love Pierce Brosnan, but he's a very wooden actor. He's smooth, good-looking, and OK in fight scenes, but he has zero edge (more than Moore did, but that's about it). Hiddleston seems too slim, but he's grittier than Brosnan.

[halgia]

I just watched this, and liked it a lot. And yes, Roper absolutely deserved what he got in the end. But: if we're supposed to be allowing and even celebrating him getting taken away by the "businessmen," then what was the point of everything? They're just going to kill him, maybe torture him first or whatever, and if that's all Burr/Pine/et al. wanted then they could have just killed him back in the staged-kidnapping at the restaurant. Yes, sure, the UK/US aren't so much in the assassination game (and they shouldn't be). But is actively allowing the bad guy to be taken away by presumable-terrorists/bad regime supporters/whatever really any different? They didn't even really uncover the corruption at MI6, not in any way that's going to stick legally at least.

[Thog]

I loved this show top to bottom, flaws and all. I thought Hiddleston was more than up to the task, and Laurie was mesmerizing. The performances elevated the material, and I was thrilled that the leads beat out all the OJ actors at the Golden Globes. I could overlook plot holes and the odd questionable acting/directing choice, but there is one thing I can't let go: you cannot simply stand waist-deep in a pool to drown a person, and then walk casually into a hotel lobby with DRY PANTS.

[SusanSunflower]

Ultimately too Bond ... but despite a half-dozen (at least) you're kidding moments, even second rate LeCarre doing Bond is better than most that's on TV in terms of characters' dimensional development.  Corky being "despicable" did not make the loss of his character (who knew he was right) any easier ... there was such an abundance of "moral ambiguity" I almost quit at that point but I'm glad I re-upped and finished it out.  (I never made it beyond the first seasons of Breaking Bad for similar feelings of actively not wanting to become enmeshed with those dreadful people). 

It will be interesting to see what they do with a second season ... either moving beyond or embracing the Bond comparisons.  There was a lot of actually utterly unnecessary "change of exotic location" and gratuitous sex scenes that stood in for plot ... and I agree with a few who said this could probably have been better wrapped up in fewer episodes -- like the weaponry and warfare these days, it all felt a bit like trying to animate what was in reality occurring by "remote control."  Hiddleston does nothing for me personally even if I can see the attraction to others ... Craig has become a successful Bond by emphasizing his vulnerability not by becoming ever more Vulcan (see also Bourne) 

Edited June 28, 2017 by SusanSunflower