Season 2

[junienmomo]

Inns and Outs: Mia

I enjoyed her on all levels. This casting was far better than the S7 Mia and the writing was on par with a mentor for Lorelai. Mia didn't take any guff off her, (love the vintage coat bit), yet loved her a guided her still, even when she was leaving the Independence Inn 'nest.'

Especially good was the thread that Mia drew with the townies. Her relationships with Taylor and Luke really tied the group together as a family and reinforced the idea that these people stay together even though they don't always get along, just like a real family. 

Does Taylor look happy to see Mia here, or crazy?

[junienmomo]

Since it's already Sunday in Europe, I'm going to comment on Bracebridge, the first of our episodes for the week of May 1.

• Loved how Michel took Rune down. I love how Michel takes anyone down. 
• Lorelai really gave into jealousy over Sherry in this episode, to the point of interfering between Rory and her father. 
• Funny how close in color Lorelai's and Emily's blue outfits were at FND
• Maybe a nitpick, but it always bugged me how big the staff was at the Independence, but only Lorelai's acquaintances were invited to the dinner, not other guests at the hotel? IIRC, Lorelai later said that the Independence was either three or five times as expensive as they could afford to buy, so I extrapolate that there were at least three times as many rooms. That could have been a massive marketing opportunity
• Paris was again so perfect here - sarcastic, observant and intelligent, yet vulnerable. I'm surprised she didn't get some sort of award for her character.
• S1 Emily reappeared during this episode, a pleasant surprise
• Loved both the notion of "secret of parenting" and the mocking of it. It was made all the more fun because it's a truth of parenting and it foreshadows Luke's acceptance of a self-help book

[hippielamb]

9 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Inns and Outs: Mia

I enjoyed her on all levels. This casting was far better than the S7 Mia and the writing was on par with a mentor for Lorelai. Mia didn't take any guff off her, (love the vintage coat bit), yet loved her a guided her still, even when she was leaving the Independence Inn 'nest.'

Especially good was the thread that Mia drew with the townies. Her relationships with Taylor and Luke really tied the group together as a family and reinforced the idea that these people stay together even though they don't always get along, just like a real family. 

Does Taylor look happy to see Mia here, or crazy?

I loved her too, and I think it is due to the actress. Season 7 Mia didn't seem as warm and nurturing. I liked how in every scene she had with Lorelai you saw them hugging or walking with their arms around each other, a symbol of their closeness. I laughed at Taylor's reaction to Mia, it was sweet and quite a contrast to his argument with Luke. I think before Mia left Stars Hollow, she was probably a pillar of their community and why they are all happy to see her.

[Kohola3]

Quote

Does Taylor look happy to see Mia here, or crazy?

Looks a bit demonic to me.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I enjoyed her on all levels. This casting was far better than the S7 Mia and the writing was on par with a mentor for Lorelai. Mia didn't take any guff off her, (love the vintage coat bit), yet loved her a guided her still, even when she was leaving the Independence Inn 'nest.'

Honestly, I find the character of Mia to be a little strange, like the writers really had no idea what to do with her, outside of briefly offering her as the good witch to Emily's bad witch.  She's portrayed as a mother figure and guide for Lorelai, but she's not even mentioned when Lorelai has her financial issues in Season 2 or Season 4, and is in a real state of crisis.  She appears to care deeply for Lorelai, but I don't think outside the episodes she is in, we ever see or hear about Lorelai leaning on her for assistance or advice in her current pursuits.  It's just odd to me.                

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, I find the character of Mia to be a little strange, like the writers really had no idea what to do with her, outside of briefly offering her as the good witch to Emily's bad witch.  She's portrayed as a mother figure and guide for Lorelai, but she's not even mentioned when Lorelai has her financial issues in Season 2 or Season 4, and is in a real state of crisis.  She appears to care deeply for Lorelai, but I don't think outside the episodes she is in, we ever see or hear about Lorelai leaning on her for assistance or advice in her current pursuits.  It's just odd to me.                

The financial issues were also a little weird in Secrets and Loans. I can see that Mia wouldn't be asked to help there, because she was far away. Lorelai also turned Luke's offer of a $15,000 loan down. She didn't want Rory to tell Emily, but she did anyway and Lorelai turned down a blank check from her. Only when she felt that she had no options at all did she accept Emily's co-signing. 

[cantbeflapped]

For the rewatch this week...

The Bracebridge Dinner - Stars Hollow Slumber Party....what could be better?  I just realized that this must have been the "Christmas episode" that year.  (I didn't watch when it originally aired).  

 

Secrets and Loans - Love, love, love the "que sera sera" music and the screeching halt with Lorelai stepping through the porch...ha.  And Mrs. Kim being afraid Rory is a carrier....lol.  Seems like Luke's offer was preferable to Emily being involved, but that would have made the episode too short, I guess.  :). 

 

Richard in Stars Hollow - Not a feel good episode, for sure.  I don't like it when Papa Gilmore is sad, broken down.  Back in the Saddle is another episode where sad/pitiful Richard ruins it for me.  But Paris and a Stars Hollow...winning combination...Luke's reaction was great.  

 

A-Tisket, A-Tasket - I know the Jess/Rory/Dean thing drags on.  (I can't even imagine what it was like watching the show in real time).  But, man, the beginning here....fabulous!  I love that little punk.  And Rory gets the award for most naive question ever when she asks, "Why are you only nice to me?"  

Jackson and Sookie make me tear up even though I've seen this countless times...so sweet.  

Lauren Graham can really wear a pair of jeans, can't she?  Nice of Luke to rescue Lorelai.  I love her panic in the diner, randomly pushing register buttons so Luke will have cash.

 

It Should've Been Lorelai - meh.  Not much to say except Sookie is a HOOT at Chilton....lol.  I love how the "funny moments" thread here gives me a heads up on funny moments to notice if I haven't noticed them before.  Sookie contradicting Rory to get her in the mood for the debate was one of those.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Secrets and Loans - Love, love, love the "que sera sera" music and the screeching halt with Lorelai stepping through the porch...ha.  And Mrs. Kim being afraid Rory is a carrier....lol.  Seems like Luke's offer was preferable to Emily being involved, but that would have made the episode too short, I guess.  :). 

The episode is a gigantic time waster.  Lorelai was being stubborn to the point of absurdity.  She had two people willing to throw thousands of dollars at her without any real question.  She needed to grow up, and stop acting like a spoiled child. 

[solotrek]

I don't get the timing of Lorelai rushing to get Luke to bid on her basket and the actual bidding on her basket. It's as if they put a halt in the bidding while she was away.

[hippielamb]

Bracebridge Dinner 

Richard and Emily are adorable. Love the townies sitting and listening to Richard's story of Prague. You get a real neighbourly feel to that scene.

I loved Rory teasing her mom about being replaced by Sherry. Lorelai has never had to share her daughter and is getting a taste of what it's like. This is a good townie episode yet we get lots of family stuff too. 

Secrets and Loans 

Even when Emily tries a different way of helping Lorelai she is suspicious. You can't undo years of control with one kind gesture, but at least Emily tried. Their relationship is so toxic. I think the simplest solution would have been to accept Luke's help though I guess Lorelai was afraid of it effecting their friendship.

I was a little annoyed at Rory in this episode. I did like Lorelai reminding her of who the parent is. She and Rory need a signal for when they are friends, and when Lorelai is playing her mom card. It would avoid a lot of their disagreements.

The Paris subplot was funny and a little sad too when you realize how important it is to her. Even her closest "friends" didn't seem interested in her scores. Has Paris ever had a real friend, someone who is interested in her life before she met Rory? If not, it explains a lot. 

Richard in Stars Hollow 

Emily is pretty funny when Richard is driving her up the wall. I have a fondness for unhinged Emily, we see a little of where Lorelai gets it. 

Dean made Rory a freaking car! :) I thought he was adorable in this episode and in the prior one. 

I feel bad for both Lorelai and Richard in their argument, as I love both characters. I do think he overstepped in whether Rory could have the car. He's acting like the father to both girls and I can understand why Lorelai was so peeved. But I feel so bad for him, he doesn't know what to do with himself. 

 

A Tisket a Tasket 

Poor Lane and Dean in this one. Henry seems perfect for Lane but he doesn't share her need for subterfuge, nor do I think he understands it. I laughed at Lane's argument with Mrs. Kim. "That is not calmed down!" 

Jess loves messing with Dean and Rory knows it, that right there is what annoys me about this teenage love triangle. Nice symbolism with the bracelet coming off, Rory is emotionally moving away from Dean. Lorelai doesn't trust Jess but doesn't want to turn into her mother. She's still in the do opposite of Emily mindset. More weird chemistry between Lorelai and Dean. ;)

It Should've Been Lorelai

Oh boy. I don't like the fight between Lorelai and Chris but can see both their points. She's saying she can let go of the possibility of them and he feels she's blaming him. I do think it is interesting that Sherry's demand that he grow up and be more responsible worked on a weak willed Chris. While Lorelai's more laid back approach of letting him come and go as he pleased did not make him want to change. 

The CD handoff in the park was great. I enjoy these little snippets into Lane's hidden life. I can remember when getting the latest CD (or cassette tape in my day) was just so important.

[junienmomo]

Richard in Stars Hollow

The psychotic moments have returned. 

Emily, who was so open in giving Lorelai the co-sign without strings, immediately attaches strings in this, the very next episode. What in the world is she thinking, trying to palm her husband off, who is just trying to establish a life as a retiree? I would have taken him to places I could take him, and when he got bored, made other suggestions. Instead he ends the day feeling unloved and unwanted, mostly Emily's fault, but a good dose of Lorelai's too. How does Emily honestly expect to have 5-10-20 years of retirement with him?

His own issue was behaving with his family as if he were interacting with colleagues. He is directive, accusing Lorelai of improper behavior in the workplace. He carries it over to Lorelai's home, telling her again how she should run her family. Then he goes completely over the top deciding what Rory is not allowed to do. He essentially ignores Emily's efforts to be accommodating yet get her own work done, another classic workplace bully action. At the end with Lorelai, he had the nerve to call it "making suggestions," another classic bullying maneuver. 

People like this in my workplace get shunned and actively reprimanded. I understand that the company he works for is stuck in the 60's, but he interacts with customers! If he's such a jerk to the more modern customers, it's no wonder he was pushed out.

This and the previous episode is a classic example of one step forward, two steps back, the fundamental problem with the arc of Lorelai and her parents.

Too bad. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

What in the world is she thinking, trying to palm her husband off, who is just trying to establish a life as a retiree? I would have taken him to places I could take him, and when he got bored, made other suggestions. Instead he ends the day feeling unloved and unwanted, mostly Emily's fault, but a good dose of Lorelai's too. How does Emily honestly expect to have 5-10-20 years of retirement with him?

I understood that Richard was forced into retirement, but it did strike me as odd that neither Emily nor Richard ever had a discussion as to how Richard's retirement was going to work for either of them.  I don't really blame Emily for Richard feeling unloved or unwanted.  I mean, this is a grown man and he apparently could think of literally nothing to do other than sit around the house observing how much coffee his wife was drinking.  That would get old fast. 

[moonb]

Besides Richard's mixed feelings about retirement, I'd bet that the only women he spent his working life around were assistants - and Emily plays that supportive kind of role for him at home also. Suddenly spending his time around his wife, with a life of her own, and the grown daughter he treats as a teenager had to be disconcerting. I think Richard's reprimanding Lorelai for flirting at work is a pretty notable scene, simply because he's oblivious to how his authoritative style wouldn't get her very far either with her employees or with the inn's customers.

[JaggedLilPill]

Richard in Stars Hollow is always a little sad to me. I completely understand how Emily, who was not used to her husband being around during the day monitoring her every move, would be bugged by that. Actually, I like her little meltdown to Lorelai on the phone. It's not that I think Emily is always cruel, but I find her easier to enjoy during her vulnerable moments.

And her desperate "I got you a loan/the reason Rory can go to Chilton," plea to Lorelai does show her vulnerable side. Or maybe more her exasperated side. But all the same, it shows she isn't always as composed as she puts herself out to be.

I love Rory and Paris's adventure to find the dirt in good ol' SH. The scene in Luke's is too funny. While I normally hate Jess, his reaction to Paris's accusations about Luke running a cat house is hilarious. Haha. Then later on with the "Rory Curtain." Bwah. This crazy town.

Lorelai and Richard's relationship always feels bittersweet to me. You can tell Lorelai has a soft spot for her dad, and he does for her, but like with Emily, a lot of Lorelai's parental issues stem from lack of communication/differences in communication style. I think for Richard, him "offering" Lorelai business advice is his way of sort of bonding with her, getting to be the father figure since Lorelai never needs help, but yeah, it comes across as very authoritarian and while Lor has a lot of faults, I actually think she is quite professional and a hard worker. I thought the way she ran the inn was very smooth.

Again, Richard oversteps his bounds at the house when it comes to Rory, but then you just feel bad for him when he says the only reason he is there is because Emily called up Lorelai and begged her to take him off her hands for a day. That must feel lousy.

Edited May 2, 2016 by JaggedLilPill

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think for Richard, him "offering" Lorelai business advice is his way of sort of bonding with her, getting to be the father figure since Lorelai never needs help, but yeah, it comes across as very authoritarian and while Lor has a lot of faults, I actually think she is quite professional and a hard worker. I thought the way she ran the inn was very smooth.

I agree.  He thought he was being helpful, when in reality he didn't understand the work environment, or that he was undermining Lorelai in front of her staff.   

[elang4]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree.  He thought he was being helpful, when in reality he didn't understand the work environment, or that he was undermining Lorelai in front of her staff.   

Although Michel did enjoy it! :p

[junienmomo]

9 hours ago, moonb said:

Besides Richard's mixed feelings about retirement, I'd bet that the only women he spent his working life around were assistants - and Emily plays that supportive kind of role for him at home also. Suddenly spending his time around his wife, with a life of her own, and the grown daughter he treats as a teenager had to be disconcerting. I think Richard's reprimanding Lorelai for flirting at work is a pretty notable scene, simply because he's oblivious to how his authoritative style wouldn't get her very far either with her employees or with the inn's customers.

Because of Richard's unilateral and spontaneous decision to retire, neither he nor Emily had transitioned into their retirement life, in which both of them aligned on new roles and responsibilities. Emily was Richard's assistant in his private life, a role she loved. Now she suddenly had her boss on her hands all the time, but she didn't draw boundaries. She could have, she was perfectly capable of saying "I'm going here, you need to decide how you are going to spend your retirement, because my work requires delicate political interactions between established women's groups, and you don't fit." It's exactly the first cup of tea scenario, which Richard understood. Later it causes Emily pain when Jason usurps her businessman's wife role.

They needed that talk, didn't have it, and Richard's response was to go back to work. That, sadly, probably shortened his life. Too bad, because at Bracebridge they seemed to be aligned. 

[Guest]

I think we also saw in Season 1 that Richard behaved badly at work, but it was likely overlooked or excused due to his standing and age. Both in Rory's Birthday Parties and Forgiveness and Stuff, we saw his getting all huffy over things that happened at work and wanting to yell at someone.  In one case, choosing to wake someone up to yell at them.

I'm behind on the rewatch, but watched the first three episodes of Season 2 last night. I really dislike the girls in these episodes.  They're both so selfish.  And Road Trip to Harvard is next for me which is easily one of my least favorite episodes for both of them!  I think Rory was rude to blow off Dean when they had pre-existing plans for some random tangent of "find extracurricular activities" and of course, he overreacted. And Lorelai was so terrible to Max and made it clear she had no intention of integrating him into the family.  

But I will say the scene between Lorelai and Emily in Hammers and Veils is such a well done, complex scene that I'll always love it even as my heart breaks for both of them.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm behind on the rewatch, but watched the first three episodes of Season 2 last night. I really dislike the girls in these episodes.  They're both so selfish.  And Road Trip to Harvard is next for me which is easily one of my least favorite episodes for both of them!  I think Rory was rude to blow off Dean when they had pre-existing plans for some random tangent of "find extracurricular activities" and of course, he overreacted. And Lorelai was so terrible to Max and made it clear she had no intention of integrating him into the family.  

All I can say is if my mother had woken me up at dawn with a last minute road trip to nowhere, I'd think she was bipolar and having some kind of manic episode.  I don't like Lorelai's treatment of Max, and I don't care much for her treatment of Rory.  I fully agree that if she was not certain about Max, she should not marry him, but I don't think she gave much thought as to how her broken engagement would effect Rory.   

[junienmomo]

It should have been Lorelai

She was so ready to be with Christopher, but Christopher has an unprecedented three minutes of lucid thought and logical behavior. 

Lorelai calls him out on her need to be in Sherry's and Christopher's life, and he reassures her that she will be. Then he maturely notes that she didn't give him the same consideration with Max. 

It was unfortunate for Lorelai that Emily was deep in the blame Lorelai for everything mode, really hurting her daughter rather than encouraging her to speak openly. 

[elang4]

Dead Uncles and Vegetable: I have to say this is one of my favourite episodes of the whole series. Everyone always says how much Luke does for Lorelai and Rory and how he drops everything to go and help them so it was nice to see it reversed. It was nice to see Lorelai drop everything to help practically run the diner while Luke was sorting everything out for the funeral plus Rory helping out with no hesitation either. Even Jess did his bit by setting up the wake. :)

[Kohola3]

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Dead Uncles and Vegetable: I have to say this is one of my favourite episodes of the whole series.

One of my three favorites as well. Shades of things to come when Lorelai attended and then tucked her arm under Luke's at the funeral.

[elang4]

7 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

One of my three favorites as well. Shades of things to come when Lorelai attended and then tucked her arm under Luke's at the funeral.

Yeah thought that was sweet. And how Lorelai had somehow managed to persuade Taylor and everyone to give Louie the send off. :)

[lulu1960]

I may have mentioned it once or twice or a million times that Dead Uncles is my favorite episode. I just loved everything about it. Diner talk, "I four forths don't care", Lorelai to the rescue at the funeral home. "Maybe we can get some people from accounting to sit on the lid." Lorelai reassuring Luke that he isn't his Uncle Louie, Emily seeing how L/L really are great friends (and potentially more). Sookie's wackiness about the wedding (paper mache mushrooms, anyone)

The list goes on and on. 

[elang4]

6 minutes ago, lulu1960 said:

I may have mentioned it once or twice or a million times that Dead Uncles is my favorite episode. I just loved everything about it. Diner talk, "I four forths don't care", Lorelai to the rescue at the funeral home. "Maybe we can get some people from accounting to sit on the lid." Lorelai reassuring Luke that he isn't his Uncle Louie, Emily seeing how L/L really are great friends (and potentially more). Sookie's wackiness about the wedding (paper mache mushrooms, anyone)

The list goes on and on. 

I agree. I loved Lorelai reassuring Luke he wasn't his uncle especially when it was revealed that Rory told her about the coffee cake. Just listening to how much Luke obviously meant to her was sweet. :)

[hippielamb]

Lost and Found

I liked seeing Gypsy again and the Miss Patty in the golfcart scene was funny too. Also, Taylor annoying Luke scenes are always amusing.

There's the Rub

I love Emily and Lorelai's spa day. It's interesting that Emily is trying to bond with Lorelai and tries to be like her, with the non-stop chattering. Meanwhile, Lorelai is in sulky teenager mode. I do like that Emily asks why can't they have what Lorelai and Rory do, it must be a question she has wondered before. I like Lorelai's answer too, it's honest. Lol at the "vicious trollop" lipstick scene.

I felt bad for Dean, he's already nervous about Jess and then seeing him with Rory only made it worse. That final scene tells it all.

Dead Uncles and Vegetables

Lorelai and Rory working in the diner is cute. This episode has my favourite ever town meeting. Cart/kiosk Cart, kiosk! Lol at Taylor's annoyance of the "hirsute hippie". Also love the town coming together like they did in Cinnamon's Wake.

Back in the Saddle Again

A Richard episode! I enjoy him a lot. His interactions with Paris are funny. It's a good plot point to see him wanting to work again, I think a lot of his identity comes from who he is at work. Plus, he seemed so depressed a few episodes ago after he retired.

Poor clingy Dean. I liked Lorelai's advice to him, somebody had to say it. Sad final scene. They represented the heartbreak of first love pretty well. 

Teach Me Tonight

Love Kirk's short film, this episode needed some humour and that dancing scene delivered. I do think Lorelai overreacted in her argument with Luke but I also suspect she has been annoyed with him. (He was in favour of a Jess/Rory relationship and he went to Rory for tutoring without asking Lorelai first.) That car was totalled. Yikes!

Glad Chris and Lorelai made up and had more flirting at movie night. Their reaction to Rory's injury was over the top. Either Rory has lived her life in a bubble and never had a broken bone or the Gilmore flair for drama is on full display.

[junienmomo]

Dead Uncles frequently holds the top spot in my list of favorite episodes as well. 

What I'd like to comment on in this rewatch is that plenty of actual character development happened and I think that is one of the reasons the episode is so beloved. 

It's not just Rory making progress in pulling away from Dean, or Luke believing Lorelai when she reassures him that he is not Uncle Louie, that people in SH care about him. It's also the re-enactors, who off-camera develop a change of heart thanks to Lorelai's inspiration. We learn that Sy is a crank, that the guys are a Stars Hollow "Band of Brothers" who share a bond. Luke sees that he is not in a group like that, and that it actually prevents him from doing what he thinks is the guys' normal duty. He also faces the fact that his relatives are, like relatives all over, fickle, unreliable, and inconsiderate. "Gorgeous Petey! Gorgeous Petey!"

Lorelai is helpful and considerate like never before. She's even very patient with Emily. She coaches Jackson, Sookie and Dean with love and doesn't even have an overly-dramatic meltdown with Emily. 

My favorite funny part, though, is Rory going after Jess to get him to help Luke. She manhandles him like I don't recall her doing to anyone else. 

This was a beautiful episode, filled with emotion. The director Jamie Babbit, has directed a number of the more emotional episodes. 

Here's her list from IMDB

Gilmore Girls (TV Series) (18 episodes) 

• - Farewell, My Pet (2007)
• - To Whom It May Concern (2007)
• - Driving Miss Gilmore (2006)
• - The Perfect Dress (2006)
• - Blame Booze and Melville (2005)
• - How Many Kropogs to Cape Cod? (2005)
• - So... Good Talk (2005)
• - Girls in Bikinis, Boys Doin' the Twist (2004)
• - Ted Koppel's Big Night Out (2003)
• - Those Are Strings, Pinocchio (2003)
• - Say Goodnight, Gracie (2003)
• - The Big One (2003)
• - Lorelai Out of Water (2003)
• - That'll Do, Pig (2003)
• - Take the Deviled Eggs... (2002)
• - Lorelai's Graduation Day (2002)
• - Dead Uncles and Vegetables (2002)
• - The Road Trip to Harvard (2001)

[cantbeflapped]

Lost and Found - Okay, it would definitely be creepy to find a teenage boy who you don't know well and don't trust in your daughter's bedroom for no good reason.  I liked the small talk attempt between Jess and Lorelai over Chinese food.  He was a bit vulnerable there.  I'm not buying that Caesar can't make good pancakes, but I guess it got Lorelai up into the apartment to notice what a disaster it was.  

 

There's the Rub -what hippelamb said.  :).   Really enjoyable episode, IMO....both Lorelai's and Rory's plots.  

 

Dead Uncles and Vegetables - again, what can I say that hasn't already been said....such a fabulous episode.  Oh, and Sookie's crazed wedding planning may be my favorite B plot of the whole series.  Michel's dismay over missing out on the midgets....

 

Back in the Saddle Again -I already mentioned how unpleasant this one is for me to watch because of how Richard embarrasses himself at the end.  But again, Headmaster Charleston has my heart.  His handling of Richard was well done.  

 

Teach Me Tonight - I'm not usually one of those people who is overly-critical of Lorelai.  I love her...  But, holy cow....the end here is one of her least attractive moments.  What was she going to if she found Jess?  Sheesh!  I mean Rory wasn't on life support or anything....I guess she freaked over what could have been.  I sort of get it I guess.  Cars and teenagers are a scary combo for any parent.  

[junienmomo]

24 minutes ago, cantbeflapped said:

Lost and Found - Okay, it would definitely be creepy to find a teenage boy who you don't know well and don't trust in your daughter's bedroom for no good reason.  I liked the small talk attempt between Jess and Lorelai over Chinese food.  He was a bit vulnerable there.  I'm not buying that Caesar can't make good pancakes, but I guess it got Lorelai up into the apartment to notice what a disaster it was. 

It wasn't that Caesar made bad pancakes, they just weren't Luke's pancakes. Similar to the change in the taste of Luke's coffee when he was, er, "getting some" from Rachel, the difference was mostly in Lorelai's head. 

[Guest]

I trying to catch up you guys! I'm so behind though.

I'm on the Bracebridge Dinner. I hate so much about this episode. The snowman contest where theirs is so bad but they think they'll win if not for the ringer, the fact that they confuse the 19th and 16th centuries seemingly, making fun of the baby pictures, etc. There's some good in there too, but overall it annoys me.

[Smad]

16 hours ago, deaja said:

The snowman contest where theirs is so bad but they think they'll win if not for the ringer

making fun of the baby pictures

That's the Gilmore Girls for you. I found it especially ironic that Lorelai of all people would make fun of how a baby looks. After all her first complete sentence was supposedly 'Big head want dolly.'. She certainly seemed to have an oversized head when she was little.

[JayInChicago]

I'm stalled at Bracebridge in my rewatch right now. I guess I could skip it. Funny, I used to think of it as one of my favorite episodes, but rewatching it doesn't do it many favors. I do like to see R and E interact with the townies though. 

also i like Rune.

[Guest]

It should've been Lorelai might be my least favorite pre-season 6 episode. 

 

Let's see- Start with a bunch of fat jokes. Boring Shrry and Christopher crap. End with the Christopher/Lorelai fight. All of it is so bad.

[junienmomo]

Just finished watching from Help Wanted through Mimi's visit to the diner at the end of Lazy Hazy. 

I was rolling on the floor laughing when Babette came to give Rory advice about Jess. My favorite line:

For every good woman there's a dirty little wold just ready to lead her astray. You can't help it, he's got the eyes, the chin, the chest hair you could carpet your dining room with. I mean, what's a woman to do? We're not made of stone for God's sake.

She is so good in the Babette role and think that her GG work proves that her multiple Emmy and Golden Globe awards in earlier years were not flukes. 

I watched the four episodes together because I wanted to really pay attention to the Christopher-Lorelai-Luke relationships. 

Christopher came on strong to Lorelai, and it was all honestly intended. He felt he and Sherry were breaking up, and while he jumped the gun and cheated on her with Lorelai, he didn't intend it to be just a cheat. That irks me since I find cheating to be a deal-breaker in a relationship. I also wonder if he ever told Sherry. 

He did appear to lie, or Lorelai lied for him, when it came to Rory. Lorelai told her parents with a nudge nudge about him visiting his daughter that Emily understood to be Christopher and Lorelai getting back together, and finished with an assurance that Rory knew and was OK with it. However, Christopher was seen a few minutes later talking to Rory. However, the topic wasn't about being with Rory, it was all about Lorelai. Christopher was no more interested in Rory than he ever was before. 

The few encounters between Lorelai and Luke struck me as being 100 percent in the (estranged) friend zone, and there was none of the season one hinting. I don't think the canon ever explained why Luke was not interested in going back to the close friendship, although the expectation that he should put Rory and Lorelai first over his nephew seems to be the accepted reason. 

The Mimi scene was not a renewal of friendship, it felt more like detente. In the preceding episodes, she never indicated that she missed him; I can't recall a single time that she felt that she was missing anything but coffee and food. Lorelai didn't go in to the diner that Friday night to finally ask Luke what she could do to restore their friendship, instead she needed a place to have her pity party, not undeserved, mind you, but it was all about her nonetheless. She doesn't even pretend to think about the impact this had on Rory. 

The scene itself was presumably directed to keep them physically separated, with Luke in the darkness as he suffered through one more round of why Lorelai wouldn't be interested in him. Very emotional performances from both actors. 

For me, the Mimi scene is a marker which really closes the "Luke might still be pining like he was in S1" book. Lorelai is also utterly indifferent to Luke on a personal level, with none of the caring that was so nice in Dead Uncles. Season 3 is about a certain level of friendship, but not nearly as close as earlier. The OTP is pretty much dead at this point.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

For me, the Mimi scene is a marker which really closes the "Luke might still be pining like he was in S1" book. Lorelai is also utterly indifferent to Luke on a personal level, with none of the caring that was so nice in Dead Uncles. Season 3 is about a certain level of friendship, but not nearly as close as earlier. The OTP is pretty much dead at this point.

Pretty interesting observation!

[Guest]

OTP?

[FictionLover]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Just finished watching from Help Wanted through Mimi's visit to the diner at the end of Lazy Hazy. 

I was rolling on the floor laughing when Babette came to give Rory advice about Jess. My favorite line:

For every good woman there's a dirty little wold just ready to lead her astray. You can't help it, he's got the eyes, the chin, the chest hair you could carpet your dining room with. I mean, what's a woman to do? We're not made of stone for God's sake.

She is so good in the Babette role and think that her GG work proves that her multiple Emmy and Golden Globe awards in earlier years were not flukes. 

I watched the four episodes together because I wanted to really pay attention to the Christopher-Lorelai-Luke relationships. 

Christopher came on strong to Lorelai, and it was all honestly intended. He felt he and Sherry were breaking up, and while he jumped the gun and cheated on her with Lorelai, he didn't intend it to be just a cheat. That irks me since I find cheating to be a deal-breaker in a relationship. I also wonder if he ever told Sherry. 

He did appear to lie, or Lorelai lied for him, when it came to Rory. Lorelai told her parents with a nudge nudge about him visiting his daughter that Emily understood to be Christopher and Lorelai getting back together, and finished with an assurance that Rory knew and was OK with it. However, Christopher was seen a few minutes later talking to Rory. However, the topic wasn't about being with Rory, it was all about Lorelai. Christopher was no more interested in Rory than he ever was before. 

The few encounters between Lorelai and Luke struck me as being 100 percent in the (estranged) friend zone, and there was none of the season one hinting. I don't think the canon ever explained why Luke was not interested in going back to the close friendship, although the expectation that he should put Rory and Lorelai first over his nephew seems to be the accepted reason. 

The Mimi scene was not a renewal of friendship, it felt more like detente. In the preceding episodes, she never indicated that she missed him; I can't recall a single time that she felt that she was missing anything but coffee and food. Lorelai didn't go in to the diner that Friday night to finally ask Luke what she could do to restore their friendship, instead she needed a place to have her pity party, not undeserved, mind you, but it was all about her nonetheless. She doesn't even pretend to think about the impact this had on Rory. 

The scene itself was presumably directed to keep them physically separated, with Luke in the darkness as he suffered through one more round of why Lorelai wouldn't be interested in him. Very emotional performances from both actors. 

For me, the Mimi scene is a marker which really closes the "Luke might still be pining like he was in S1" book. Lorelai is also utterly indifferent to Luke on a personal level, with none of the caring that was so nice in Dead Uncles. Season 3 is about a certain level of friendship, but not nearly as close as earlier. The OTP is pretty much dead at this point.

It is always so interesting to hear different observations.  I always felt Lorelai wanted to apologize again but when she entered the dinner, she told  Luke that she wouldn't.  My feelings were that she missed Luke and after the agonizing dinner at her parents, she needed her friend.  It showed her earlier looking in the dinner longingly; I know it is her favorite place to eat, but I always felt she did miss the dinner owner as well.

[Smad]

3 hours ago, junienmomo said:

He did appear to lie, or Lorelai lied for him, when it came to Rory. Lorelai told her parents with a nudge nudge about him visiting his daughter that Emily understood to be Christopher and Lorelai getting back together, and finished with an assurance that Rory knew and was OK with it. However, Christopher was seen a few minutes later talking to Rory. However, the topic wasn't about being with Rory, it was all about Lorelai. Christopher was no more interested in Rory than he ever was before. 

The scene itself was presumably directed to keep them physically separated, with Luke in the darkness as he suffered through one more round of why Lorelai wouldn't be interested in him. Very emotional performances from both actors. For me, the Mimi scene is a marker which really closes the "Luke might still be pining like he was in S1" book. Lorelai is also utterly indifferent to Luke on a personal level, with none of the caring that was so nice in Dead Uncles. Season 3 is about a certain level of friendship, but not nearly as close as earlier. The OTP is pretty much dead at this point.

But that's pretty much a flaw in ASP's writing regarding the whole show. Lorelai's men are just there as accessories to her story. They don't really get any sort of POV for themselves and rarely a seperate storyline. Max, Luke, Christopher and Jason. The relationship was always from Lorelai's POV. Luke and Jason at least had some storylines seperate from Lorelai though Jason was the only one who got one while being with Lorelai romantically. Christopher was never on the show to be there for Rory's story and I still can't believe ASP didn't see how wrong that was. Luke barely got anything in terms of story not involving Lorelai once they got together. And even worse no POV during the S5 break-up and the S6 drama. Funnily it's one of the things the writers of S7 continued by having almost all of Christopher's screen time centered around Lorelai while still keeping him a 2 dimensional character. You can't have a character in the central storyline and no bother to write for them.

[cantbeflapped]

She did miss the diner owner as well.  She flat out said it...."I want Luke back."  "He's right here."  "No he isn't."  It's in the episode where she wants to know if he got her apology letter and he gives her the cold shoulder....I think it's I Can't Get Started.  I'll go check the transcript and correct this if not.  

[shron17]

44 minutes ago, cantbeflapped said:

She did miss the diner owner as well.  She flat out said it...."I want Luke back."  "He's right here."  "No he isn't."  It's in the episode where she wants to know if he got her apology letter and he gives her the cold shoulder....I think it's I Can't Get Started.  I'll go check the transcript and correct this if not.  

You're right, she did say that.  Even if she did just miss the coffee, nothing was stopping her from going to the diner except her own feelings about the way Luke acted.  He didn't refuse to serve her.  After a long while I've come to the conclusion that the Mimi scene was a callback to Luke's reassurance in Run Away, Little Boy to always be there for her.  Lorelai didn't need a place to have a pity party but someone to listen to her and tell her it was going to be okay.  Rory wasn't appropriate and Sookie was otherwise occupied so she went in under the pretense of needing coffee and told Luke her  troubles.  She was tired of avoiding him and decided he could either prove he meant what he said, or not. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by shron17

[junienmomo]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

OTP?

One True Pairing. 

When watching it from Season 1, I was emotionally invested in the sexual tension between L and L. Later, it occurred to me that this tension was mostly only present in S1. That's what inspired me to look at these episodes to see what was actually there instead of wearing my "L/L-forever" colored glasses. 

[junienmomo]

54 minutes ago, shron17 said:

You're right, she did say that.  Even if she did just miss the coffee, nothing was stopping her from going to the diner except her own feelings about the way Luke acted.  He didn't refuse to serve her.  After a long while I've come to the conclusion that the Mimi scene was a callback to Luke's reassurance in Run Away, Little Boy to always be there for her.  Lorelai didn't need a place to have a pity party but someone to listen to her and tell her it was going to be okay.  Rory wasn't appropriate and Sookie was otherwise occupied so she went in under the pretense of needing coffee and told Luke her  troubles.  She was tired of avoiding him and decided he could either prove he meant what he said, or not. 

True about the Run Away reassurance. Unfortunately, it was promised both ways and Lorelai broke it first.when she didn't even try to understand his need to take care of Jess as well as Rory. 

The RA,LB quote:

Lorelai: I don't have many people in my life who are in my life permanently forever. They will always be there for me. I will always be there for them, you know? There's Rory, and Sookie, and this town and ... you. I mean, at least I think I've got...

Which brings me to a small nitpick about that quote. She lists the town as always there for her, and she lists it before him, when clearly at least Rory and Sookie are in priority order. Nine thousand people are listed before the person you're talking to? Vaguely insulting if I'm the listener, but I ultimately wrote it off to sloppy writing.

I would have loved to read the apology, because if she acknowledged that Luke had to consider both Jess and Rory and apologized for not doing that, then Luke is in the wrong to not accept it more fully. But we'll never know.

[junienmomo]

1 hour ago, cantbeflapped said:

She did miss the diner owner as well.  She flat out said it...."I want Luke back."  "He's right here."  "No he isn't."  It's in the episode where she wants to know if he got her apology letter and he gives her the cold shoulder....I think it's I Can't Get Started.  I'll go check the transcript and correct this if not.  

It was indeed, both quotes are in the exact same scene. 

It's fair for both of them to take the positions they took. Lorelai wanting her apology to be accepted unconditionally and to go back to pre-TMT banter. Luke to accept it superficially, still talk to her, but to be very hurt and not feeling up to the buddy-buddy stuff anymore. 

The funny thing is, if Lorelai had just accepted that Luke was hurt and they needed to rebuild part of their intimacy, she could have been going in the diner every day, and things would have gotten a little better every day. 

[hippielamb]

6 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Just finished watching from Help Wanted through Mimi's visit to the diner at the end of Lazy Hazy. 

I was rolling on the floor laughing when Babette came to give Rory advice about Jess. My favorite line:

For every good woman there's a dirty little wold just ready to lead her astray. You can't help it, he's got the eyes, the chin, the chest hair you could carpet your dining room with. I mean, what's a woman to do? We're not made of stone for God's sake.

She is so good in the Babette role and think that her GG work proves that her multiple Emmy and Golden Globe awards in earlier years were not flukes. 

I love Babbette. It's a toss up between her and Patty as my favourite townie. I liked that scene and also a previous one where she talked about being thrown from a moving car. She has the one liners on this show that always crack me up. 

Quote

6 hours ago, junienmomo said:

He did appear to lie, or Lorelai lied for him, when it came to Rory. Lorelai told her parents with a nudge nudge about him visiting his daughter that Emily understood to be Christopher and Lorelai getting back together, and finished with an assurance that Rory knew and was OK with it. However, Christopher was seen a few minutes later talking to Rory. However, the topic wasn't about being with Rory, it was all about Lorelai. Christopher was no more interested in Rory than he ever was before. 

 

 

Rory did say that Lorelai had already spoken to her about Chris and Lorelai getting back together. I think Rory was a concern for her mom because it would change their family dynamic if they had moved forward. I do agree Chris' interest is solely on Lorelai with Rory being an afterthought but that is played consistently throughout the show. (Maybe that's why so many fans dislike him. I find it very realistic.)

[shron17]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

True about the Run Away reassurance. Unfortunately, it was promised both ways and Lorelai broke it first.when she didn't even try to understand his need to take care of Jess as well as Rory.

Yes, I know it went both ways but don't think it was broken forever just because Lorelai made a mistake.  In fact, I think going in the diner and showing her vulnerabilities was a way of showing Luke she knew he'd still be there for her and implied she was still there for him.   Afterwards, e.g. in Take the Deviled Eggs, she backs off of being so critical of Jess and tries to be more supportive. 

[FictionLover]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

One True Pairing. 

When watching it from Season 1, I was emotionally invested in the sexual tension between L and L. Later, it occurred to me that this tension was mostly only present in S1. That's what inspired me to look at these episodes to see what was actually there instead of wearing my "L/L-forever" colored glasses. 

For sure, the longing looks for Lorelai ended in season one but they both were always jealous when one of them were dating someone else. 

[Sweet Tee]

Quote

 I do agree Chris' interest is solely on Lorelai with Rory being an afterthought but that is played consistently throughout the show. (Maybe that's why so many fans dislike him. I find it very realistic.)

Realistic?  As in a lot of fathers don't care about their kids?  If that's true, then it's really sad.  And yes, that is exactly what first soured me on Chris.  I cannot get behind a parent who has little to no interest in their child.  And honestly, as much as Lorelai adores and centers herself on Rory, I can't believe that his lack of interest in their daughter never bothered her.  He's a crappy father.  He just is.  And no one ever really calls him on it.  I can only assume that ASP doesn't see being a deadbeat dad as a problem.

[txhorns79]

Quote

And honestly, as much as Lorelai adores and centers herself on Rory, I can't believe that his lack of interest in their daughter never bothered her.  He's a crappy father.  He just is.  And no one ever really calls him on it.  I can only assume that ASP doesn't see being a deadbeat dad as a problem.

I have no idea how ASP feels about deadbeat dads. I just presume she didn't view Chris in that light.  I think it's one of those Gilmore Girls quirks.  They wanted to keep Chris around as a potential love interest for Lorelai, so there necessarily has to be a lot that Lorelai overlooks or otherwise justifies to herself in dealing with him.  Or maybe it's just residual guilt from running away.  I know they never got into it, but I seriously doubt Lorelai had any discussions with Chris before unilaterally deciding that she and his daughter should run away, and go live in a shed.      

[FictionLover]

6 hours ago, junienmomo said:

One True Pairing. 

When watching it from Season 1, I was emotionally invested in the sexual tension between L and L. Later, it occurred to me that this tension was mostly only present in S1. That's what inspired me to look at these episodes to see what was actually there instead of wearing my "L/L-forever" colored glasses. 

I always wondered if ASP always wanted LL to be the endgame or if she changed her mind periodically.  This article made me believe that she did.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/159527-this-season-1-gilmore-girls-clue-could-point-to-rory-logan-being-endgame?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=bustle

[junienmomo]

50 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

I always wondered if ASP always wanted LL to be the endgame or if she changed her mind periodically.  This article made me believe that she did.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/159527-this-season-1-gilmore-girls-clue-could-point-to-rory-logan-being-endgame?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=bustle

I'm guessing that 1-2-3 isn't deliberately carried on throughout the series. 

Reason one is that ASP and company had a tendency to forget details. Reason two us that I heard, but did not read in an interview, an idea that ASP would have preferred both GG to remain single. Reason three is that the numbers don't work for Lorelai, because we'd have to ignore both Alex and Jason, both of whom were around long enough to be considered serious.