Season 2 Discussion - The Sky is Black

[zxy556575]

I mean. That was beyond dark, and pretty horrifically gory. I kept thinking of the Foley artists punching huge bowls of gelatin all day. Squishy, pulpy, sluggy, hand choppy. I had to cover my eyes or mute the sound quite a bit.

 

I may have to watch season one again to compare, but I think they were pretty equal to me. The series started out with Foggy and Matt but seems like there wasn't more than 20 minutes of total Foggy screen time in #2, and most of that was his trial speech. He was the one who humanized Matt, even more so than Karen, and I missed his presence.

 

The show, and Jon Bernthal in particular, had better get some awards love this year, and not just the technical and genre categories.

[JustaPerson]

Damn I just going to start of these with the title of "Matt and Frank and Elektra and Stick and The Hand: K-I-L-L-I-N-G! Or Vehemently Opposing It" but yours is much simpler.

 

While I thought the show did a fairly decent job juggling all of the storylines, I feel like this season could have just been about Frank with a bit of Fisk thrown in. Or Elektra and The Hand with a bit of Stick thrown in.

 

I didn't hate Matt/Karen like some people here seemed to, but I think they could have spent this season instead slowly building toward a relationship a bit like they did last season. But with slightly more heat. And the reveal should have happened much sooner.

[WendyCR72]

I'm glad we got another glimpse of Fisk. Wasn't expecting him, so it was a cool surprise for me! I thought Matt/Elektra had a hell of a lot more heat than Matt/Karen, and I hope this implosion sticks. (Though it likely won't.) I just don't think they click beyond friends.

 

Speaking of friends, I don't think there was enough Foggy this season. Granted, the scenes he did get, he made the most of them! But it still seemed less.

 

Not as fond of Frank/Punisher as so many are, but Jon Bernthal did do a hell of a job with the role, giving such a brutal guy layers. Loved his morality debate with Matt.

 

Stick was always an asshole, but to try to outright murder? I don't know...

 

While I still loved this season, I found myself missing Wesley, Leland, and Vanessa. I'm strange like that!

[kennyab]

While I've found some Punisher stories entertaining (mainly some of the Ennis/Dillon run), this is the first time I've actually ever cared about Frank Castle as a character, so huge kudos to the creators and Jon Bernthal for that. His relationship with Karen was really a high point of the season for me. If they can successfully mix his humanization here with the Ennis's dark comedy, I would be 110% all in for a Punisher series. That would be all kinds of epic.

 

One of complaints from the first season was that Matt was so isolated, both story-wise and emotionally, from Foggy and Karen. I was disappointed that we had more of the same this go around, but I was glad that they actually did end up separated by the end of the series. I'm hoping that means season 3 will be about them rebuilding their relationships and having them actually work together in a meaningful way.

 

I also find ninjas and prophecies to be a bit more entertaining than mobs and the Kingpin, so that was also a welcome addition. Elektra was amazing, and Elodie Yung just owned that role. And nice job with tying her origin in with Matt and Stick instead of relying on cosmic coincidence. 

 

So while it still had its problems, I enjoyed it as a while more than season 1. My only big fanboy complaint is that I really would have loved for Matt to meet Jessica or Luke. Oh well, it'll happen soon enough, and we did get some Claire love, so it's not all bad. 

[Sakura12]

I don't hate Karen/Matt, I just didn't see any sparks between them. And I really loved the chemistry between Matt and Elektra. I'm wondering if Matt finding out that Elektra was trained by Stick also made him fall for even more? They have yet another thing that connects them. While Matt clearly cares about Karen, after Elektra almost died you could tell he wasn't over her yet. I don't know if they plan on starting again now that Karen knows the secret and Elektra is "dead" but I hope they don't. 

 

I liked Fisk as a villain but I liked that we only got glimpses of him this season rather than seeing him all the time like last season. I like that he's another looming threat out there for Matt. Since it appears that Elektra will show up alive as the new leader of The Hand or something like that to give Matt more trouble. 

 

Jon Bernthal as the Punisher was just, wow. I teared up at his graveyard monologue, that was some powerful acting right there.  He gave Frank Castle so many layers that I started to agree with his methods over Matt's. But I really enjoyed seeing The Punisher and Elektra showing the opposite side of Matt''s belief's. Then in the end Matt realized that his way wasn't always going to work. That some people need a permanent end. I hope that continues next time we see him.

 

I really enjoyed Elodie Yung's performance as Elektra as well. She brought a lot to a sociopathic character that also made me feel for her. The actress that played young Elektra was great too. She did remind me of Sara Lance from Arrow but we were able to dig a lot deeper into her character and why she is the way she is. I knew she was going to die because comics but I was still sad when it happened. I also appreciate that unlike the last few female characters that were killed she died fighting and saving the hero. Pretty much choosing to die so the Hand wouldn't win. (as we saw that failed but she still made her own choice, it wasn't for Matt's manpain, it was for her.) 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Sakura12

[ulkis]

Stick was always an asshole, but to try to outright murder? I don't know...

I have to say, I was more annoyed with him being so smug than the killing, heh.

[Chaos Theory]

I found this season a bit slow. I did enjoy it though but I liked season one more. I think maybe I missed the Matt/Foggy/Karen scenes. This had Matt kind of doing the whole I need to be Daredevil all the time speil plus I didn't particularly care for the Punisher

I liked Eleckra and found the character interesting for the most part. The sociopathic love interest to a Vigilante is always entertaining.

Good season.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[dwmarch]

One thing that bugged me about this season was the eager willingness to simply drop plot threads. Karen breaks into Frank Castle's suburban home, some electronic device notifies some people in a van to hop to, plot forgotten. And the Punisher's lair got broken into at least twice but no one cared. Wilson Fisk has a prominent role but once his part in the story is done we never hear from him again. And for what it is worth I honestly don't think the show established why Frank's former commanding officer would get into the drug trade and would destroy all the competition.

 

Electra was a bit of a wet blanket wife. There were a few plot threads interrupted by her presence that did not gain from such interference. When Foggy was desperately trying his best to defend Frank Castle and Electra kept getting in the way I just wanted her to leave. She wasn't really helping beyond the casual willingness to stab ninjas who are supposed to be immortal anyway.

 

The Black Sky business took me out of the story, perhaps because Daredevil has basically been grounded in reality thus far and introducing immortal ninjas is a step too far. I know this is a lead-up to Iron Fist (which apparently delves deep into the mysticism) but in this show the change is jarring. We were in the courtroom trying to convince the jury that this mass murderer had good reasons for what he was doing. And now we've got a sarcophagus that is being fed blood by some creepy volunteers. I don't know how they could have led into that more organically. I understand and appreciate that Marvel tries to keep the fantastic grounded in the scientific. However, in this case it didn't work for me. There isn't enough lead up to the mysticism. We're just all of a sudden there and with little explanation for what is going on. I am still not clear on what a Black Sky is or why it is important or how it connects to what we saw in season one.

[FurryFury]

Wow, a fantastic second season. This probably etches out Galavant (RIP) as the most improved show of this TV year.

 

The MVP of the season was Frank Castle, IMO. I mean, I was all set up to love Elektra - she's basically the quintessence of the character tropes I love... and well, I did like her, I liked her a lot. But Frank was something else. He became a revelation for me, and I credit the most of it to John Bernthal's acting, which just blew me out of the water (although kudos to the writers to noticing his skill and giving him some awesome material).

 

Second, Karen. Definitely the most improved character. It's not that I didn't like her in season one, but she really grew on me this time. And that's even without her backstory (when will we get it?) I used to be OK with Matt/Karen romance, and I still don't exactly dislike it, but I don't really care - for both objective and subjective reasons.

 

And speaking about subjective... I know this is all kinds of wrong. And stupid. And non-canon. And Karen definitely deserves better. But dammit if I don't ship her with Frank. I mean, this dude definitely is bad news. He's crazy, he's violent, he's completely focused on his revenge to the extent he barely gives a damn about anything else (that said, he still does - observe his interactions with Matt and, yes, Karen herself, he's self-aware enough to distance himself, even). And their connection is definitely established as just platonic, plus Karen projecting her issues (some of which we don't know yet) on his case. Yet there's something hauntingly beautiful about a man who's all but given up on himself, fashioning himself into an instrument of vengeance and punishment, finding somebody who is stubborn and hopeful enough to refuse to give up on him. Somebody who still believes in him and feels for him. Somebody who gets distraught thinking he's dead even after he used her as a bait for his enemies, after she's seen the carnage he's capable of firsthand. I can't help it, it just sings to me. I can't imagine it ending in any way but tragic, but dammit, I want it, I want it hard.

 

And from Karen's side, her distress at the pier, when she's learnt Frank's probably dead, trumped any signs of her supposed love for Matt. I mean, I know she's Matt's comic love interest and that Punisher doesn't really do romance (which makes sense). But I... don't really care for the comic canon? I've seen lots of adaptations of lots of mediums, and I've always felt like the source material shouldn't be treated like a sacred cow. This is hardly the first time I've wanted the adaptation to drop the canon story for something that works better.

 

As for Matt, I guess I've finally come around to the Matt/Claire pairing - which I kinda didn't care about in season 1. Mostly because I like Elektra way more without him, too (her relationship with Stick felt much more interesting to me, as did her unexplored nature as the Black Sky). And also because Claire's the only one who calls him on his shit (except for Foggy - I actually feel like Foggy is his strongest relationship on the show) and because it seems like she's the only one he actually respects. But mostly, I just don't care that much about Matt, TBH. This season, for me, was all about Frank, Karen and Elektra - Matt kinda paled contrasted with them. I also wasn't that impressed with Charlie Cox's acting.

 

Another thing I wasn't impressed with was the Hand. It sounds awesome on paper, but it simply wasn't explored or explained enough. And hordes of (presumably) well-trained ninjas that Matt and Elektra dispatched were reminiscent of League of Assassins on Arrow, which is not flattering to Daredevil.

 

Still, I'm willing to overlook the relative boringness (and douchiness!) of Matt, the clunkiness of Matt/Karen romance and a few dropped threads for the stuff I liked. I mean, Frank's monologue in episode 4 was probably one of the best scenes I've seen on TV in years. I'll probably rewatch the season just for this character.

 

PS Is Matt the first TV superhero to tell his love interest about his secret identity? I mean, Laurel was told by the Big Bad, Iris had to figure it out herself, James Olsen knew everything from the beginning... There's Felicity, but she wasn't a love interest when she was told.

Edited March 21, 2016 by FurryFury

[GHScorpiosRule]

One thing that bugged me about this season was the eager willingness to simply drop plot threads. Karen breaks into Frank Castle's suburban home, some electronic device notifies some people in a van to hop to, plot forgotten. And the Punisher's lair got broken into at least twice but no one cared. Wilson Fisk has a prominent role but once his part in the story is done we never hear from him again. And for what it is worth I honestly don't think the show established why Frank's former commanding officer would get into the drug trade and would destroy all the competition.

 

Electra was a bit of a wet blanket wife. There were a few plot threads interrupted by her presence that did not gain from such interference. When Foggy was desperately trying his best to defend Frank Castle and Electra kept getting in the way I just wanted her to leave. She wasn't really helping beyond the casual willingness to stab ninjas who are supposed to be immortal anyway.

 

The Black Sky business took me out of the story, perhaps because Daredevil has basically been grounded in reality thus far and introducing immortal ninjas is a step too far. I know this is a lead-up to Iron Fist (which apparently delves deep into the mysticism) but in this show the change is jarring. We were in the courtroom trying to convince the jury that this mass murderer had good reasons for what he was doing. And now we've got a sarcophagus that is being fed blood by some creepy volunteers. I don't know how they could have led into that more organically. I understand and appreciate that Marvel tries to keep the fantastic grounded in the scientific. However, in this case it didn't work for me. There isn't enough lead up to the mysticism. We're just all of a sudden there and with little explanation for what is going on. I am still not clear on what a Black Sky is or why it is important or how it connects to what we saw in season one.

 

 

THIS! So much! I tried not to marathon watch, but I failed. I watched three episodes on Friday, then 4-11 on Saturday and the last two yesterday.  And it's all big one blur.  But, as much as I love the introduction of The Punisher, and I did so love Bernthal's portrayal, I like the first season much better. This season was all over the place, and I didn't like that our team (and gag, yes, Karen is a part of it) were splintered even before they officially broke up. 

 

Y'all know I don't like Karen. But I didn't like Elektra, either. Until maybe the last two episodes. I wanted to punch her because apparently, helping her out was so much more important than defending the client Matt insisted they take on. And he misses the opening argument. Doesn't tell Foggy or Karen he overheard what that DOC "cop' whispered in Frank's ear before he took the stand. Nothing. And I know court stuff isn't anywhere near close to reality, but COME ON! What Matt did wasn't asking Frank leading questions/treating him as a hostile witness, but a fucking Closing Argument!

 

And apparently, they didn't manage to weed out all the crooked cops, because within a matter of months, Fisk is able to buy all of them and keep them in his pocket, and able to eat the food and watch tv and not suffer, at all, being locked in a cage. I like D'Onofrio okay, but I don't know what he's thinking, making Fisk sound so..pendantic, or as if he's clenching his teeth and talking two, three words at a time.  I didn't need to see him again so soon, or have him behind Frank's escape, and getting Frank to kill his competition.

 

I will say I love how Frank calls Matt "Red."

 

Here is my reaction when I saw The Real Lex Luthor ClancyFucking!Brown as the Colonel.

 

Me: SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

 

Then, four episodes later, at learning he was The Blacksmith:

 

Me: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Now my only hope is to see him again on my screen as General Eiling on The Flash.

 

I think, the best chemistry that Matt has had is with Claire. I see none with Karen, and she's been wanting him to see her as more than a client since the pilot episode.  And though he may still be in love with Elektra, I got no flutters in my belly or get any vicarious feels with them, like I did when Matt and Claire shared those kisses last season, and when they finally! finally! had a couple scenes this season.

 

I hate Stick. There, I said it.

 

I'm hoping Frank at least, took the pictures of his wife and children before he torched the  place.

[benteen]

I thought Season 2 was great, even better than Season 1.  He just kept getting better and better with every episode and I loved the world and the characters that they have built.

 

Charlie Cox continues to be awesome as Daredevil.  I wanted to smack Matt for his martyr complex but that is classic Matt Murdock, as are the problems he had with Foggy.  I was sad to see so little interaction between these two as the season went on but it made sense given how isolated that two were becoming from each other.

 

Elden Henson continues to be an awesome Foggy.

 

I love what they've done with Karen Page on this show.  She's a strong character who drives a lot of the action and I'd say she's easily a character who trumps her comic counterpart.  I didn't share the dislike of Karen and Matt's relationship.  I think she and Matt had great chemistry and I felt the same with Matt and Elektra.  But yeah, Matt was an ass to her and I'm glad she didn't put up with it.  I will say though, Karen and Frank had much more chemistry than I expected.

 

Elodie Young was terrific as Elektra and sizzled in her scenes with Matt.  She's another great addition to the Marvel Universe

 

I didn't expect Vincent D'Onfrio to be back as Fisk so it was a pleasant surprise.  He was awesome in his appearance.  After his anti-climactic defeat in Season 1, he really reestablished himself as a force to be reckoned with and it's going to be a real shit storm for Matt and Foggy when he eventually gets out.  Matt's confrontation with him in Episode 10 was awesome and reminded me of how badly some of his confrontation's with Fisk in the comics have gone.  I think I know what storyline they're setting up with him in the next season.

 

Also liked Fisk interacting with Frank as he was Frank's number one enemy for many years in the comics as well.

Jon Bernthal absolutely killed it as Frank Castle.  Just killed it.  He lit up the screen just about every time he was on and worked well with just about everyone.  He was the best addition this season.  While I do think a Punisher series in the long-term would be limiting (given the nature of Frank's character) I definitely hope Netflix is serious about a spinoff.

 

I enjoyed the handful of tie-ins they had to the bigger Marvel Netflix Universe.

 

They did a great job with the Hand Ninjas though I do think the story suffered somewhat from not having a central villain.  Given that Punisher and Elektra were the main focus on this season, that's understandable.  I just wish the stakes had felt a little higher at the end.  But otherwise, this was the best Marvel series to date and just great on its own.

[FurryFury]

I wanted to punch her because apparently, helping her out was so much more important than defending the client Matt insisted they take on.

 

It's interesting that you wanted to punch HER, not Matt. Because I wanted to punch him.

[Grace284]

Frank was incredibly well acted but all through his scenes I kept thinking of Jessica's "everyone has pain" breakdown in Jessica Jones. Just...get some therapy and calm down, dude. His whole vengeance storyline was, to me, by far the least interesting because it's so standard, but his relationships with Karen and Matt were fascinating and I would have liked that to be explored more over the 'conspiracy' of what happened to his wife and kids.

[FurryFury]

Frank was incredibly well acted but all through his scenes I kept thinking of Jessica's "everyone has pain" breakdown in Jessica Jones. Just...get some therapy and calm down, dude.

 

The thing with mental health issues is that you can't always just decide to go and get help. It's way more complicated than that. Trust me.

[Sakura12]

I can't blame Elektra for Matt's choices. He decided to drop everything and ditch his friends to help her. That was his choice.

While Claire is probably the best choice for Matt. I don't think Matt is the best choice for her. She deserves better.

What I really love is how all women on this show are their own characters and don't really need the hero. They are strong, independent women that can handle themselves when the going gets tough. Karen and Claire aren't trained like Elektra but managed to save themselves most of the time. And Elektra decided to take herself out the equation to save Matt. However being a tragic character it wasn't going to matter. They still all made their own choices independent of the main hero of the story, which is not something we see too often.

 

Most of the time we hear the argument that everything has to revolve around the title character. I liked that Daredevil didn't do that. Karen's story while part of Matt's really became about her and Frank which was completely separate from Frank and Matt's story. Claire's was about her no longer believing in the hospital she worked at, 

Edited March 21, 2016 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

While Claire is probably the best choice for Matt. I don't think Matt is the best choice for her. She deserves better.

 

It's true for everybody! But maybe he gets better. I hope he does.

 

Most of the time we hear the argument that everything has to revolve around the title character. I liked that Daredevil didn't do that. Karen's story while part of Matt's really became about her and Frank which was completely separate from Frank and Matt's story.

 

I have a natural preference for ensemble shows, so I'm really digging that. The "everything has to revolve around the title character" thing doesn't really work for long periods of time. Unless he's just that fascinating, which Matt, unfortunately, is not (few are).

[hogwash]

I wish we had gotten into Matt's headspace more. I could see what they were trying to do with Elektra (except for the Black Sky nonsense) and I get that Matt tends to flake out when Elektra's around because she's the only one who's really cool with him letting his Daredevil flag fly or whatever. But then he was done with her for the exact same reason (killing kids for murky reasons he didn't care about or understand) he was done with Stick in S01. Until he wasn't because Stick tried to kill her and then she tried to kill Stick and he was trying to protect both of them from each other and save her humanity(?) or whatever. I really didn't really get why he got involved again? Having Elektra literally reference it as Matt saving her from a Moral Event Horizon made it dumber to me (and made me wonder who was browsing tvtropes...). I mean, she slit ninja kid's throat after Matt had him subdued but killing Stick was the big no-no?? Even then I was still mostly engaged in all that until the Foot Clan got involved. After that I could barely care. 

 

I did really loved this season. I guess I'm a little disappointed because I loved Stick's episode in S01 and I was excited to go beyond the mob/gang/gentrification stuff and dive into that part of Daredevil's world. But it just the same old Asian mysticism stuff (with barely any Asians) and ninjas who are basically cannon fodder. Not much to write home about. Having Elektra and Stick introduce it all seems like a no brainer but it was so bleh. I actually thought Claire Temple and her hospital wing of freaky kids was the most interesting part of the entire ninja storyline. Mostly cause I love Claire Temple. I also love Karen Page. Killing Ben Urich was still such a mistake. Having Ben continue to take Karen under his wing while Nelson & Murdock imploded would have worked better and given her journalism thing more legitimacy. Her ascent to that journalist job was complete BS but I love watching her nose around and investigate so I'm mostly cool with it. 

[ulkis]

And from Karen's side, her distress at the pier, when she's learnt Frank's probably dead, trumped any signs of her supposed love for Matt. I mean, I know she's Matt's comic love interest and that Punisher doesn't really do romance (which makes sense). But I... don't really care for the comic canon? I've seen lots of adaptations of lots of mediums, and I've always felt like the source material shouldn't be treated like a sacred cow. This is hardly the first time I've wanted the adaptation to drop the canon story for something that works better.

 

That is how I read the scene with Karen at the pier too, but I thought maybe I was just reading it like that because I wanted it to be like that. But yeah that scene is one of the reasons why, that is why despite that scene with Frank telling Karen that she loved Matt I don't necessarily think that Karen and Matt are supposed to be "OTP", so to speak.

 I mean, she slit ninja kid's throat after Matt had him subdued but killing Stick was the big no-no?? Even then I was still mostly engaged in all that until the Foot Clan got involved. After that I could barely care. 

 

I think it was because Matt knew she loved/had loved Stick, that he thought it would mess her up even more and she would regret it if she killed someone she loved. It was less about whether it was morally wrong to kill Stick but more about concern for her sanity.

Edited March 21, 2016 by ulkis

[VCRTracking]

As Stick told her he did it to save her not save him.

 

I have to say part of me expected Elektra when they revealed she was the "Black Sun" and the Hand were bowing to her to totally go along with it and be like "I'm the boss now bitches!"

[FurryFury]

She was definitely tempted. But she probably figured she can't lose Matt.

[Mars477]

She was definitely tempted. But she probably figured she can't lose Matt.

Or that she didn't want to kill him.

[peach]

It's interesting that you wanted to punch HER, not Matt. Because I wanted to punch him.

They both deserved it.

[Dandesun]

Am I wrong for really, really wanting a blooper reel? There is something about the idea of Frank, covered in bruises and blood, fucking up a line or whatever and then Bernthal breaks character and he and the crew start laughing that really appeals to me.

 

Also, browsing through tumblr because of reasons, I came upon this from dukerollo:

 

"ok but what if frank castle keeps bumping into abused dogs when he’s off to kill bad guys, and he can never leave them behind and at one point he’s saved so many dogs that he basically just has to stop his career as a murder machine to run his dog rescue center"

 

I want to read this fan fic.

[JustaPerson]

I could see Frank menacingly staring down someone until they got a dog.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I may just have to rewatch the last couple episodes of Jessica Jones, but wasn't Hogwarth, like in trouble for what she did? Wasn't she (spoilering in case some haven't watched it)

disbarred? Or did she just appear in front of the disciplinary committee

? I'm confused!!!

 

I would totally love seeing Castle gather up all abused doggies to take care of.  I mean, the dude didn't bat an eyelash when Finn was FUCKING Torturing him; yet, the minute he brought out the doggie and put that drill next to its head...you saw the panic and fear in his eyes. At least, that's what I saw. So he does have an Achilles' Heel, the big Palooka.

 

And like everyone else, I want to know what happened to the wee thing!

[Grace284]

I could see Frank menacingly staring down someone until they got a dog.

 

You'll never get me, Punisher, for I have strapped a labradoodle to my chest!

[Dandesun]

I have all faith that Frank got his dog back. Comic!Frank has a dog named Max so I believe in their reunion!

[JustaPerson]

I'm sure he'd just stab you in the neck and unstrap the poor blood splattered dog off of your corpse.

Frank: *sighs* "Another one?" *scratches behind the ears cuddles lovingly bathes and brushes* "God you're annoying."

 

ETA: Jon Bernthal has been on tumblr?

 

Edited March 22, 2016 by JustaPerson

[feverfew]

I didn't want to binge this season; I wanted to savour it, draw everything I could from it, for as long as I could! But you know what they say about good intentions... At least my road to hell was pawed with awesome actors doing an incredible job. Jon Bernthal was an absolute revelation: I couldn't tear my eyes from him. Now I want that Punisher miniseries (I think posters here a right in that a character like him can't sustain 13 episodes without diluting that intensity that makes him so riveting, but five episodes would do just nicely) - and I want Karen to go with him! I've been struggling with why Matt/Karen doesn't work for me, and I think it's because they belong (somewhat) to the same world. The side of the angels. They need a counterpoint to the alway (try to) do-right; a crazy to balance out the good. Otherwise they end up looking like the CW's Flash in Nolan's Batverse.

 

Season two gave me Karen as a heroine; a character I in season one had little use for, but here really came into her own. I'm so grateful they managed to turn me around on the character, because shows like these need strong, flawed, real female characters, not just love interests. And she was both true to the flaws they presented in season one and so much more than that. Her development was maybe my favourite part. The death of Elektra was expected, and she did suffer a bit from that, but she was another one I desperately hope we'll see more from.

 

Matt was perhaps the character I felt the least for, maybe because I never bought the Karen-Matt-romance (I thought the scene in the Indian restaurent was lovely, but unsustainable in their world; it was too much Daredevil-does-You-Got-Mail), and because he didn't have Foggy to ground him in friendship.

 

Next season I want more Punisher, more Elektra & Stick, more Claire, more Foggy, more Fisk & Vanessa, more, more ...actually I just want season three now.

 

 

You'll never get me, Punisher, for I have strapped a labradoodle to my chest!

 

I want that on a t-shirt.

[VCRTracking]

I agree with what Alan Sepinwall said in his review of the second half of season 2: "Increasing focus on the Hand was a reminder that an endless army of faceless, personality-less ninja warriors is a lot more fun on the comics page than it can be on the screen". It brought to mind the TV Trope Conservation of Ninjutsu.

 

In any martial arts fight, there is only a finite amount of ninjutsu available to each side in a given encounter. As a result, one Ninja is a deadly threat, but an army of them are cannon fodder.

 

 

They're scary at first when Matt couldn't hear their hearbeats and when they're shooting arrows from rooftops or scaling a hospital but once Stick teaches Matt how to sense them they're basically like Imperial Stormtroopers.

Edited March 22, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Dandesun]

Okay, yes, that's all true but The Hand is actually like that in the comics, too. Cannon fodder ninjas! They're like the Foot in Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles. There are a finite number of characters that are important (and thus have names) but the rest of them are faceless adversaries to be dealt with and dispatched of.

 

I will say this, though... when Foggy told Matt to look for manholes, I laughed out loud. I happen to play Marvel Heroes and one of the things you run into in various zones is a manhole that sort of shines and when you click on it, you're surrounded by the Hand! Foggy is absolutely right!!

[penguinnj]

Very strong second season- I think I may have preferred season 1 because I liked the tight little band of evildoer who all had names but season 2 looked better and- I think- will be instrumental in uniting the Netflix series'.

• I am not a Karen fan- I've tried for 2 seasons now, but I really cannot figure out how she is still alive.  Pet peeve, but I hate it when character ditches police protection to ride off with sketchy individual.  After that, I'd say, sorry lady, but we wash our hands of you.  If you are that determined to get yourself into dangerous situations, we ain't risking more police just to get your ass out.
• Matt/Elektra was much more interesting anyway- chemistry was incredible
• Love that Stick opens the door at Matt's place.
• Punisher was awesome with Matt and through his trial and escape from jail but the whole think started to fizzle a bit with the whole Blacksmith thing.  That seemed  tacked on and unnecessary.  They could have had Dutton been responsible, Frank kills him, escapes from jail, and continues vigillanting- as a verb.  Just seemed like a twist for the sake of being a twist.  After the trial, I feel like the pace and cohesion suffered.
• In fact that was my biggest problem.  Season seemed a little disjointed.  If Karen/Foggy stay together for their storyline I only have one set of characters to  check in with while Matt's off doing his thing.  But if I can check in with Foggy by himself, I start to begrudge the time I spend being dragged over to see Karen play reporter.  This should be Matt's story.
• I think I understand why the mysticism twist was needed with what might be coming, but I did find it a jolt because the series is usually so grounded.  I'm going to cut the writers a break and say this was as good as they could make it but I still don't really get the deal with the escaped zombie types- I'll take the ninjas as a given but that bit was just head scratching.
• More Foggy!
• More Matt/Priest.  Catholicism is key to his character and I loved that about Season 1.  Needed a little more here.

[Dandesun]

I understand the idea that Daredevil is very grounded but, at the same time, it's still about a guy who got blinded by toxic chemicals and uses a sonar sense to see. Jessica Jones was very grounded, too, but it was about a woman who has super strength and can fly and a dude who can control minds just by talking. It also featured a dude with unbreakable skin.

 

Not to mention that Madame Gao was featured in the first season and she's got something going on. Stick brought in mystical ninjas in season one, too. Basically, the hint at something else has been there from the start. It just wasn't the forefront.

 

And it also exists in the Marvel Cinematic Universe which is getting weirder and weirder. That stuff is just going to bleed over.

 

All that being said, I really do want to see people reacting to the Iron Fist stuff like we kind of expect them to. "Okay... wait... what?"

[GHScorpiosRule]

I didn't know where else to put this, since he doesn't have his own thread, so I'm going to put it here.  I wanted to see what else Bernthal had been in, and OMGEEE!!! My jaw nearly fell to the floor! Dude is only 5'10"?????!!!!! Did those kickass biker boots give him an extra six inches in height or was it all his muscles that made him look so...immense?  And I can't believe I didn't recall, or rather, don't recall seeing him, or him making any kind of impression on me when he appeared in Law & Order: Criminal Intent back in 2002, where he shared scenes with...Vincent D'Onofrio!!! So those scenes with them in this show, was like a, reunion! He was also in Law & Order: SVU, Boston Legal, Without a Trace!!! I don't remember him.  But after seeing him HERE, I'm never gonna forget him!

 

It really is a small, small world!  But 5'10"????!!!!! That has GOT to be a mistake!

 

Ahem.

 

I will add this: I think it's utter bullshit, that Karen went from a secretary to legal assistant and had all the skillz of the latter with no experience and it's been less than a year at Nelson and Murdock, to all of a sudden, getting a posh job as a reporter, and gets Ben's office, no less, when I'm sure that there are more deserving reporters who earned that office. But no. It's got to be Karen, because, SEEKER of the TRUTH!  And I know that they weren't getting paid, so she probably wasn't drawing a salary from Nelson and Murdock, but it must be really nice, to just pick up and leave the office and go do whatever investigating she feels she has to do, BUT doesn't tell her bosses where she'll be, or where she's going.  And since she's got the experience of being chased after, kidnapped, etc, one would think she would wear sensible shoes, instead of those mile high heels.  But I have to hand wave it away, because...why?

 

And it was her repeated keeping things and not telling Matt or Froggy, that put me in the camp of not being mad or irked with Matt for not telling her who he is. And no, I'm not lumping in her killing Wesley. Just the other stuff.

 

We all have stuff that bugs us. This is one or more than one of a few things that bugs me.  

 

I don't like Karen.  That said I will say, I'm glad for those that do like her, that she is a character in her own right, and not the delegated love interest/possible love interest, etc. Actually, that's what I love about this show. Each character is a character in their own right.

 

And though I found myself loving Frank, I still love Matt best.

[JustaPerson]

Yea I was confused about that too. Like does she have experience writing? What if her article is terrible? At first I thought the newspaper was just going to use her as a PI/researcher but I guess not?

 

 

And though I found myself loving Frank, I still love Matt best.

In spite his bad behavior and mistakes this season, I too still love Matt best. What can I say? I always love the good guy. And I love that he's not perfect by any means. No one in this series is. 

[Dandesun]

Yea I was confused about that too. Like does she have experience writing? What if her article is terrible? At first I thought the newspaper was just going to use her as a PI/researcher but I guess not?

 

Her article was terrible. She had all of this amazing material about what went down and went all Carrie Bradshaw talking about New York being her favorite hero or whatever. (Yes, I know it wasn't exactly that...  but it pretty much was.)

 

I think Karen had a lot of terrific moments, I don't dislike her or anything but that article blew.

[Happy Harpy]

I liked this season way better than S1. Mostly because it imo focused more on the heroes and "grey" characters, and not so much on an irredeemable villain and his love story that I couldn't care less about (yes, I know it's hugely impopular).

So my less favorite parts of the season, aside from the ninja stuff that was way too reminiscent of the terrible Arrow LOA storyline for my taste (although I have to compliment the actors who spoke in Japanese/the production who cared about this detail,  because for once it actually sounded like they were Japanese speakers and not merely reading phonetically a text they didn't understand) were the appearances of Claire, who is still meh for me, Fisk, whom I was so over with mid-season 1 already, and Stick, whom I never warmed up to and probably never will.

 

I liked better the Punisher storyline, and how Matt had to face the limits of his vigilantism and had to define who he is.

 

My favorite part was still no superpowers...

 

And Karen Page. I was very OK with her in S1, but she was the MVP for me this season. Sorry to make a reference to Arrow again, but for me she's everything that Laurel Lance should have been. She's flawed enough so that she isn't a Mary Sue, but she's strong enough and smart enough and brave enough for me. Her devotion to find out the truth and get fair treatment for Frank Castle really won me over. It wasn't just words, and I was also impressed by how she kept it together in front of physical threat, even though she isn't a fighter.

I did love her relationship with Frank, but I don't want to see it turn romantic or sexual. Mostly, I feel that if Frank loved again and had a chance at another family, he would lose his fuel, he wouldn't be the Punisher anymore. And although she fights for his side of the story to be told, and sympathized with his pain, I'm not sure that Karen can be on board with the violent part of him -it goes farther than Matt's. I kind of like the concept of the Punisher having a guardian angel (?).  I wonder if it's significant that Karen's brother was mentioned early in the season, maybe that's where they're going with her and Frank.

 

Foggy was adorable! He grew up as quite the lawyer. I hope I'll get to see him and Carrie-Ann Moss's character work together in S3. I was so happy to see her, she's one of my favorite actresses (but even she won't make me watch a superpowers comic show).

 

The rift between the Foggy/Matt/Karen trinity was well done for me, made sense, and flowed well although I was "no, no, no! please keep them together". They're the reason why I even watched S2. And I'm another one who hopes that S3 builds them back together.

 

I love, love, love Elodie Yung. I've been a fan since the French TV show Les Bleus and I was elated when she was cast as Elektra. I wasn't disappointed, I think I would have hated the character had she been played by anybody else (I'm not a fan, to say the least, of the Veronica or the Vixen type). But she gave enough heart and vulnerability to Elektra so I could see past the "everything is a game" side of the character that would have annoyed me otherwise, and I could feel for her. I wish I had seen more of Elektra interacting with other people, with Foggy and Karen especially. I thought she was a bit too isolated with Matt, and it's a pity because she has a lot of potential as a character of her own imo.

 

And I think that all the more since she and Matt left me quite cold. It kind of surprised me, I'm usually a huge sucker for Battle Couples. I did like when they fought together but it didn't make my heart flutter.  It's funny, I began to watch the season ready to be force-fed Matt/Karen and in the end, Matt/Elektra felt more "programmed" or "because comics" to me, I felt that there was no build-up and I just had to accept it.  Also, the "I know you" (in my bones, better than anyone etc.) coming from an ex is a cliché so overused lately that it now makes my skin crawl and has me yell hysterically "No you don't" at my screen.  I saw that they cared for one another, their relationship wasn't as toxic as it could have been, but they're just not compelling as lovers for me.

 

OTOH, I was surprised at Matt/Karen because I didn't expect heat from them, and OMG those kisses were damn freaking hot. And sweet, they were hot because they were sweet. They got me with the sweet and Matt seemed so happy with her (I love him or I wouldn't watch the show, after all he's the main character, so I want him to be happy). Although Matt losing it when she was kidnapped is a cliché, I fell head first for it.

I'm not sure that their relationship needed Foggy's seal of approval at the beginning of the season, it was a bit overkill/heavy. But I decided to take it as a reassuring sign that there would be no triangle between those three, ever.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[peach]

I think it's utter bullshit, that Karen went from a secretary to legal assistant and had all the skillz of the latter with no experience and it's been less than a year at Nelson and Murdock, to all of a sudden, getting a posh job as a reporter, and gets Ben's office, no less, when I'm sure that there are more deserving reporters who earned that office. But no. It's got to be Karen, because, SEEKER of the TRUTH!

 

Yes, I was laughing out loud when she felt lost about what to do, with her chin in her hands, while her boss explained how to be a writer.  I can just imagine how a long suffering J-school graduate would view those scenes. But careers on this show are portrayed in the manner of a daytime soap, so I'm just going with it. 

 

Also, none of them have any money but they traipse around NEW YORK CITY, wearing nice clothes, going out drinking all the damn time, and they each have their own nice apartment.

[WendyCR72]

Still want to know how the hell Karen, Foggy, and Matt could AFFORD to go drinking all the damn time when they were never paid with actual MONEY! Do superheroes and their friends just get by with mind control and good looks and charm?

[FurryFury]

I did love her relationship with Frank, but I don't want to see it turn romantic or sexual. Mostly, I feel that if Frank loved again and had a chance at another family, he would lose his fuel, he wouldn't be the Punisher anymore. And although she fights for his side of the story to be told, and sympathized with his pain, I'm not sure that Karen can be on board with the violent part of him -it goes farther than Matt's. I kind of like the concept of the Punisher having a guardian angel (?).  I wonder if it's significant that Karen's brother was mentioned early in the season, maybe that's where they're going with her and Frank.

 

Oh, I get your interpretation - in fact, I think this is what the show was going for in the first place. I just couldn't help myself when they've paralleled Matt and Frank shielding Karen from the bullets and glass in two episodes (in a row or close to each other, I don't remember), her freakin' crying when he killed Clancy Brown and the finale when she was watching him on the rooftop (she didn't even watch Matt, she watched him).

 

It's funny, I began to watch the season ready to be force-fed Matt/Karen and in the end, Matt/Elektra felt more "programmed" or "because comics" to me, I felt that there was no build-up and I just had to accept it.

 

I'm not really a fan of both couples, but yeah, I get you. There was something... really mechanical about Elektra's (and Elektra/Matt) portrayal, episode 12 was the first time Elektra felt like a real character rather than a trope to me, and that was her flashbacks and her relationship with Stick (which wasn't as developed as I'd like it to be but still had more heart than her romance with Matt),

Edited March 23, 2016 by FurryFury

[Dandesun]

Well... they DID have a running tab at Josie's. One that Josie was not expecting to see paid any time soon, for that matter. So that explains that.

 

I can't imagine Karen's apartment costing that much, considering that last season a dude was murdered there and she had bloodstains on the carpet still and this season it was riddled with bullets. Last season, Matt's apartment was sitting right next to a giant video screen... which seems to have disappeared or broken because Lord that was a poorly lit place he had. Not that it matters for him but that was a weird discrepancy. He said in season 1 that he got a great deal on his apartment because of the ginormo screen so there's that.

 

The one thing that did kind of make me laugh was when Matt was walking through the streets of, presumably, Hell's Kitchen during the day on his way to show Karen the mask and it was just... a really lovely New York neighborhood as opposed to the shithole it's kind of supposed to be. See what happens when you add natural lighting?!

 

You know what's funny? Steve Rogers, Captain Freaking America, commented in Age of Ultron that he didn't think he could afford Brooklyn. (Presumably he was living at Tony's tower?) But that's the thing about super-heroing... it doesn't really pay unless you charge people for your heroing (paging Luke Cage and Danny Rand!) So you have to rely on your independently uber wealthy characters... your Tony Starks, your Charles Xaviers, your Warren Worthingtons. Super-heroing seems to be kind of like being an artist during the Renaissance... you rely on your patrons.

 

Goodness knows that Jessica Jones lived and worked in a tiny little shithole of an apartment (that got decimated by the end of the series) and I doubt Luke's is much better. Karen's didn't seem overly large or excessively nice. Matt's did strike me as large but based on last season there's a reason for that and how he could afford it.

 

Meanwhile, Frank had a really nice house! But where the hell was it supposed to be? Connecticut?

Edited March 23, 2016 by Dandesun

[peach]

The one thing that did kind of make me laugh was when Matt was walking through the streets of, presumably, Hell's Kitchen during the day on his way to show Karen the mask and it was just... a really lovely New York neighborhood as opposed to the shithole it's kind of supposed to be. See what happens when you add natural lighting?!

 

 

Right?  I'm like, dang, Hell's Kitchen is pretty nice.  Maybe this is Gordon Ramsay's neighborhood?

As for the apartments...with no money or connections, I rather picture them living in the Blues Brothers' apartment, with a hot plate and the train shaking the walls.  A giant video screen doesn't negate the value of New York property THAT much.  But at least they did try to throw us a bone of an explanation.  Like I said above, I view comic book shows in the same vein as soaps, and just accept everyone's wardrobe, prettiness, spending money, amounts of free time, job availability, healing speed, etc as being part of their special universe.

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by peach

[Grace284]

The one thing that did kind of make me laugh was when Matt was walking through the streets of, presumably, Hell's Kitchen during the day on his way to show Karen the mask and it was just... a really lovely New York neighborhood as opposed to the shithole it's kind of supposed to be. See what happens when you add natural lighting?!

 

My favourite moment of that montage was when the camera decided to focus for an unexpectedly long period of time on the photogenic family looking dreamily at a menorah. It was as if Matt walked past a catalogue shoot.

[Dandesun]

My favourite moment of that montage was when the camera decided to focus for an unexpectedly long period of time on the photogenic family looking dreamily at a menorah. It was as if Matt walked past a catalogue shoot.

 

Look! We're in New York! See? Jewish people!

 

I guess that was supposed to help illustrate that it was the holiday season. Actually, wasn't it Christmas Eve and isn't Hanukkah over by then? Does anyone know how long this season was actually supposed to take? Because it started in a heatwave during an undisclosed month and ended towards the end of December and... I have to point out that there was no snow on the ground when Matt was walking through his friendly neighborhood Hell's Kitchen.

 

To be fair, the big snows tend to hit in January or February but still, tv shows generally always have late December (especially in New York) covered in snow.

[peach]

There's no snow in Hell!  Unless you count Cleveland. 

 

Hanukkah moves around on the calendar, the way Easter does.  So sometimes it's right at Christmas, and sometimes it's early December.  I take this show to be set not in a particular year, but i'm also not paying close attention.

[feverfew]

Oh, I get your interpretation - in fact, I think this is what the show was going for in the first place. I just couldn't help myself when they've paralleled Matt and Frank shielding Karen from the bullets and glass in two episodes (in a row or close to each other, I don't remember), her freakin' crying when he killed Clancy Brown and the finale when she was watching him on the rooftop (she didn't even watch Matt, she watched him).

 

I'm not really a fan of both couples, but yeah, I get you. There was something... really mechanical about Elektra's (and Elektra/Matt) portrayal, episode 12 was the first time Elektra felt like a real character rather than a trope to me, and that was her flashbacks and her relationship with Stick (which wasn't as developed as I'd like it to be but still had more heart than her romance with Matt),

 

I think the moment that really sold me on Karen's connection to Frank was when she was standing all desolate on the pier waiting to see his body being fished out of the water. Or - as you said - when she was crying at him in the woods. Or the moment driedfruit mentioned on the episode 12 thread when the car radio started to blast out Frank's music and Karen knew he was coming for her. You guys might be right and the show might be going for a more sibling-like nature, but to me their chemistry was so intense. So I'm going to stay in - what is it the tumblr folks call it? - the trash can for now ;)

 

As for Elektra, I was pretty disappointed with her intro, but by the end of the show I just wanted to know more about her. She didn't have the development a character as damaged as she was deserved, and I'm more into the grittiness of a character like Jessica Jones than the whole mystical mumbo jumbo Sara Lance was subjected to on Arrow, but I still want to know more about her. And I did end up shipping her and Matt - and not just because I found his and Karen's tentative relationship bland.

[that one guy]

Also, none of them have any money but they traipse around NEW YORK CITY, wearing nice clothes, going out drinking all the damn time, and they each have their own nice apartment.

 

I have decided that, in spite of the connection to the rest of the MCU, the Netflix shows are set in the 1970s. The Westies (the Irish gang featured on the show) ran Hell's Kitchen until being wiped out by RICO prosecutions in 1986. Soldiers returning from Vietnam brought Southeast Asian heroin with them, a trade controlled by ethnic Chinese gangs in Laos, Thailand, and Burma. Hell's Kitchen was low rent, deteriorating, and crime-ridden, and NYC in general seemed to be on the brink of collapse. You had the city going bankrupt and the Son of Sam murders. Today, Hell's Kitchen AKA the Special Clinton Zoning District, is a high-rent historic district.

 

I guess I have a different reaction than many, I love Karen but I loved her last year too, easily my favorite character and the point of view i identify with. Part of it, I think, is that all the criticism the audience has of her behavior are things she agrees with. She's guilty, not just about whatever happened to her before moving to New York, but Wesley, Ulrich, even the guard who was blackmailed into trying to murder her in jail. But she can't just do nothing and let the world burn, either. You don't see women like this all that much on the screen, but I often run into them in real life. I also feel like the comic books ruined this character and the TV show is correcting the mistakes.

[Bec]

Her article was terrible. She had all of this amazing material about what went down and went all Carrie Bradshaw talking about New York being her favorite hero or whatever.

Hee! To be fair, Ben Ulrich’s article in the first season calling out the mysterious Wilson Fisk (which Ben deleted when Fisk made himself public) was also kind of terrible for newspaper writing. None of these reporters actually write like reporters. They love their overly wordy purple prose instead of getting straight to the point and the facts. But oh well, it would sound sort of weird if, over that last montage, Karen’s voiceover read us a hard news story about corruption and crime instead, right?

 

Hell's Kitchen was low rent, deteriorating, and crime-ridden, and NYC in general seemed to be on the brink of collapse. You had the city going bankrupt and the Son of Sam murders.

Hey, they did name-drop Son of Sam in that jury selection scene (“It’s Son of Sam all over again!”). And apparently people are moving out because of all the murders in the neighborhood. This doesn’t have to be set in the actual 70s. It just has to be set in an alternate universe where that part of New York is still what it was like in the 70s. I think I’ve read an interview somewhere that said this is exactly what they intend.

[peach]

I have decided that, in spite of the connection to the rest of the MCU, the Netflix shows are set in the 1970s. The Westies (the Irish gang featured on the show) ran Hell's Kitchen until being wiped out by RICO prosecutions in 1986. Soldiers returning from Vietnam brought Southeast Asian heroin with them, a trade controlled by ethnic Chinese gangs in Laos, Thailand, and Burma. Hell's Kitchen was low rent, deteriorating, and crime-ridden, and NYC in general seemed to be on the brink of collapse. You had the city going bankrupt and the Son of Sam murders. Today, Hell's Kitchen AKA the Special Clinton Zoning District, is a high-rent historic district.

 

But the Punisher was in Kandahar. 

 

 

I guess I have a different reaction than many, I love Karen but I loved her last year too, easily my favorite character and the point of view i identify with.

 

Karen is also my favorite. 

[thuganomics85]

So, I have myself about a day to process the season.  Overall, I enjoyed it just as much as the first season, but for different reasons.

 

The biggest thing that comes to mind and what really delighted me was how they handled Karen.  I really love that she wasn't just the "love interest", and had her own big storyline, and interests outside the office and especially Matt. I love that subtly hinted that her shooting Wesley effected her and I especially loved how her relationship with Ben effected her and made her develop an interest for writing and reporting.  Bringing back Mitchell as her new mentor was a nice touch, and I liked seeing a different side to him.

 

That said, the highlight was easily Karen and Frank.  I truly would have never, ever predicted that Karen would play such a huge part in The Punisher storyline, but she totally did.  And I found all of their interactions fascinating.  In general, the entire Punisher arc ended up being even better then I hoped.  Jon Bernthal is Frank.  I'll give past actors like Thomas Jane and Ray Stevenson for trying their best, but Jon just was The Punisher and I don't see that ever changing.  And Deborah Ann Woll more then matched him.  I loved her as Jessica on True Blood, and she's even better here, which is no part due to being on a better show.

 

Speaking of being in better stuff, I felt the same with with Elodie Yung as Elektra.  She was the best thing about mediocre stuff like GI Joe: Rise of the Cobra Commander and Gods of Egypt, but I thought was flat-out amazing here.  The way Elektra could be almost scary and creepy with her indifference to killing, but then flip a switch and show a side of her that was very human, was perfect.  And it sure did help that not only is Elodie beautiful, but she just oozes confidence and seductiveness, that just makes Elektra even more sexy.  Safe to say, the show it a home run with both the casting of Frank and Elektra.

 

I mainly remained unspoiled, so I totally did not know Fisk was returning, so that was one of the best surprises of the season.  I thought they used him well.  Not too much, but enough to move the Frank story forward, and to especially set him up as a threat in a future season.  I so can't wait to see where he goes next.

 

After thinking about it, Foggy did seem to take a backseat compared to the rest, but I did like him showing that he truly is a good lawyer, intelligent, and even brave in his own way.  He might not have the fighting skills of Matt, but him willing to face-off against various criminals and talk them down is just as impressive.  And I so can't wait to see where they go with him joining Hogarth!

 

While I wanted to smack him a lot of times at the end, I still enjoy Matt more then other current heroes.  Mainly because his hypocrisy at least makes sense character-wise, and even him keeping secrets is explained better, and doesn't make him just look like a moron compared to others (yeah, I'm looking at you Oliver "I have to hide my son from everyone, because my baby mama scares me!" Queen.)  Plus, Charlie Cox is just really good.  I like how he still can give Matt a flash of humor even during the darkest times.

 

Loved seeing the recognizable faces in small parts like Tony Curran, William Forsythe, and especially Clancy Brown.  The only real misstep is killing Clancy Brown.  Clancy Brown should be made available to appear in anything, whenever there is a need for an episode to be improved with a dose of Clancy Brown.

 

Glad that Claire was still around to call out Matt on his bullshit.  She's the main reason I'll still watch the Luke Cage series, even though I wasn't a huge fan of him on Jessica Jones (now, a Patty spin-off?  I would so watch that...)

 

Only real disappointment was that I never quite warmed up to The Hand as the big baddies.  It was fun seeing Nobu again, but they felt like another variation of the League of Assassins and their ilk.  I guess I'm just all ninja-ed out or something.