S01.E05: Episode Five

[ApathyMonger]

Quote

A suspicious Roper gathers his entourage around him in an attempt to root out the traitor, forcing Pine to play a dangerous game. In London, Burr and Steadman face mounting opposition from Whitehall.

[atomationage]

I hate the story and the writing, but I'm still watching for the performances.

[halopub]

Like you, I kept watching too, hoping for the occasional crumb of greatness. The actors were all solid but yes...the material had issues.

 

Good

• The world building with the shots of the camp. I don't know that I got all the stuff about The Haven being Roper's own little country but the set was great. Visual literacy is definitely one of the show's strengths.
• Great sound design in the camp and in London.
• Pine again looking very comfortable and knowledgeable in his sales role.
• The dark quip about the small grave.

 

Questions

• Why would the MI6 guy threaten and acknowledge his role to Angela right on her doorstop? They worked together at MI6. Did he really think a direct attack on her husband wouldn't further motivate her?
• Have all the front staff changed at the Nefertiti?

[atomationage]

Funnily, Tom Hollander is Doctor Thorne in Doctor Thorne, a three episode series shot in some stately homes.  They have these huge doors which might be about twelve feet tall, and Tom looks about the size of Peter Dinklage by those doors. 

[numbnut]

After losing interest, I'm now powering through the last two eps because there's nothing else to watch on a Tuesday. I agree with whoever said Laurie isn't threatening. He's not a brawler and doesn't seem to carry a gun, so maybe the threat is that he can talk you to death. I can see the blond chick being threatened (she can't fight back with stick-like arms). And how could Corky the midget overpower Pine like that?

[formerlyfreedom]

Originally aired in the UK on 20 March 2016. Airing in the US on Tuesday, May 17, 2016. Entering the thread before airing WILL spoil you!

[Slovenly Muse]

Wow, I totally disagree with the comments so far. Sure, the writing isn't perfect, and logic is stretched in a few places, but I think the series is playing out the story very effectively. Roper may not be the most physically-intimidating villain, but he doesn't need to be. His strength is in using other people's hands to do his dirty work. Even if he was the towering sort who could take on all of MI6 one-handed, he WOULDN'T. Because he always keeps his hands clean, and that makes him untouchable. Roper's intimidation factor is that if he doesn't like or trust you, then you are dead. And it won't come from him personally, it'll come from a corner you're not expecting. He doesn't DO things. He makes things happen. His ability to manipulate and intellectually outmanoeuvre his enemies is what makes him so intimidating. His mild physical presence is just the disguise he wears to convince the world he is a harmless humanitarian.

The attack on Angela's husband (and her operation) makes sense in this context as well, if you assume that Roper is behind it. He trades in weakness. He bets not on his own strength, but on the weakness of his opponents, and it usually pays off. Demonstrating to Angela that her co-workers and superiors are in his pocket, and there's nothing she can do about it and no one she can report it to (and no way to protect herself from them), is designed to put her off-balance and feed the intrinsic desire to join the "winning" side that it seems many of her colleagues have succumbed to. He is betting that her weakness will get the better of her and she will cave the way others have. He doesn't understand her drive to stop him. He doesn't understand emotions getting in the way of the logical, safe thing to do, because he doesn't have real emotions, real attachments, the way she does. The way he treats Jed proves this. He tells her he "loves" her, when in reality, he doesn't love her at all. He keeps her around like a pet so that he can have the trappings of love (a woman who will be kind to him, and available to him whenever he wants, and appear with him in public to increase his status and legitimize his false persona) without any of the inconvenient realities of love (like caring whether the person lives or dies).

In fact, considering his use of intermediaries and cats-paws, it wouldn't surprise me if he had someone working very closely with Angela, an agent of his own on the inside of her operation, and the attack on her husband was actually DESIGNED to provoke her into acting emotionally and making a mistake that his operatives could use to discredit her and shut her down for good: Goading her into making a mistake the way she is using Pine to do the same to him. In fact, Roper may have known all along that Pine was working for her, and has been using Pine against her from the start.

The interesting thing about this episode is that it raised a lot of potential. We don't quite know what everyone knows about each other, or what they suspect, or how they have been preparing for conflict (e.g., there's no way Roper believes Corky was the mole: The man had been so deep in his organization for so long that if he really did decide to turn on Roper, he would actually be able to take him down, rather than falling for Roper's usual tricks - but who Roper truly suspects and what he intends to do about it remains to be seen), but there are many ways things can play out from here, and we are poised on the brink of possibility! I suppose the next episode will actually determine whether or not these possibilities have been effectively set up to play out in intensely satisfying ways, or if it's all been a jumbled, incoherent waste of time. Both are definitely possible, but I'm not prepared to judge until I see how this all resolves!

Edited May 16, 2016 by Slovenly Muse
More to say.

[Primetimer]

And bedbugs have nothing to do with it.

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[Amethyst]

Great penultimate episode.  Some disturbing scenes: the weapon testing session, hearing the little boy and his father screaming for help. 

I give credit to Jed for her quick thinking about Corky, especially after Roper threatened and slapped her.  Pretty sure Roper was going to kill Corky anyway, no matter what Corky told him.  From Johnathan's pov, I wonder if that was a bit of a mercy killing as well.  Not that he cared about Corky's demise, but I think Roper would have Corky suffer a lot more before killing him.

That said, Roper still suspects Johnathan, right?  It's too much of a coincidence that all this started happening the moment he arrived.

Poor Angela.  I figured Drumgoole would have Joel or her husband killed, to send a message.  Or something else truly ghastly like pushing her down a flight of stairs and cause her to miscarry.  Who knows.  Honestly surprised that no one ended up dead.

Johnathan, you better hope Hamid really did see you as "just a man in a uniform" and doesn't recognize you on sight.  But this is a drama, so of course he will.

Looking forward to the finale.

[Knuckles]

My only regret about this series is that I can't binge watch it. Yet. This was intense and well-played...I did not see the double-cross at the border with the supplies at all. And to the poster who wondered why Roper was not physically intimidating...would be a mistake if he were. His m.o. is to portray himself as a  CEO...civil, polished, gentlemanly. It is how he moves through the world undetected; simply another powerful, wealthy man. If he needs muscle, he can hire it...or more likely, he keeps his distance there as well, and an underling, like Corky, handles the grubby details. He needs deniability at every level.

Roper is a pure predator, ruthless and devoid of real emotion, or any sense of decency. He is out there to win, and to outwit and outplay any opposition. That's the thrill for him, with the money and power it affords him. Jed is this season's accessory, she will last until he tires of her, or she makes a wrong move that annoys him. He trusts no one, as he has repeatedly stated, and Jonathan is in his crosshairs as well, as is everyone. Basically, they are all expendable or replaceable to Roper.  He regretted Corky's death for a moment, then had him quickly buried. He would do the same to any of them.

Using Turkey and Syria as background was brilliant, as was the photos ops and pr coverage the refugees provided. The sheer cynicism of the thing and its brutality felt very real.

[scrb]

Roper must have really bought off the intelligence services.

He has this little fireworks display, in the middle of nowhere but near the Syrian border, and nobody noticed?  Yet a day or too later, he gets the same satellite feed of the convoy that both London and Washington were getting?

It is one thing to buy off some individual bureaucrats in the capitals but actually get satellite feeds?

And why were there US troops in the border between Turkey and Syria?  It has to be some kind of alternate reality, right?

He's making $240 million on the deal, which is a lot of money.  But he's got to buy off spooks in the UK and the US, then a mercenary army hanging out in the desert with champagne and other pricey liquor.

Thats got to eat into his profit margin a lot, doesn't it?

And did they drive from Turkey to Cairo?  Not too far but they'd have to drive through Syria?  Maybe they didn't show them flying.  But then Roper couldn't surprise them by telling Pine that they're going to Cairo.

[VCRTracking]

Whoa, we're back to where it all started.

RIP Corky. "That's the smallest grave I've ever dug!" No respect even in death.

I definitely thought the trucks were carrying arms and Roper was going to get caught smuggling. Should have known he had a trick up his sleeve.

Roper's weapons demonstrations beats Tony Stark's hands down.

[dubbel zout]

Jed doesn't know how to pack for the destination, does she? Or does own only bare-backed caftans and negligees? "Humiliated" isn't the way I'd feel if I were the only woman in a paramilitary outpost in the middle of the desert—uneasy is more like it—but that's me.

Roper definitely suspects something is going on with Jed and Pine. They really need to stop looking at each other so much. I know some of that is for the audience's benefit, but give us some credit for remembering what's happened in previous episodes.

I've lost interest in the plot, but I am curious to see how this all wraps up.

Edited May 18, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Slovenly Muse]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

He's making $240 million on the deal, which is a lot of money.  But he's got to buy off spooks in the UK and the US, then a mercenary army hanging out in the desert with champagne and other pricey liquor.

Thats got to eat into his profit margin a lot, doesn't it?

I'm not sure about this. Maybe someone who was paying closer attention, or who read the book, can tell me, but it sounded like Haven was Roper's big humanitarian project, which was presented to the world as providing aid to civilians/refugees, and therefore brought in money from legitimate sources for humanitarian aid. The reality, though, is that the refugees are used as "set dressing" to sell the illusion while the bulk of the money goes to fund the mercenary army Roper has raised. (Actually, as an unscrupulous army-for-hire, his mercenaries should serve as a further source of income for Roper, right? I bet the money he makes renting out their services pays for their wages and then some!) I wish we'd gotten more information about the complexity of his operation at Haven, and how it relates to his public persona, because that could be really fascinating. Maybe the book goes into greater detail. I'd love to know!

[attica]

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Maybe the book goes into greater detail.

No, this part of the story quite departs from the book, so what you see is what you're getting, plot-wise. In the book,

Spoiler

the deal goes down at sea on the Leila Jane, no Haven-front required.

I give TH some thespian credit in this ep. It's a challenge to show the audience OMG-so-fucked while evoking only mild interest to Roper, and I think he got it right.

RIP, Corky, you campy drunk delight. You're a fine villain, sweetie.

[dubbel zout]

28 minutes ago, attica said:

RIP, Corky, you campy drunk delight. You're a fine villain, sweetie.

I knew we'd probably lose him, but I wish we'd gotten more biting commentary before he was killed. At least Pine did it with relative dispatch.

[Slovenly Muse]

Thanks, attica. That's an interesting departure!

As much as Corky was on to Pine and had to go for Pine's sake, I have to wonder if Jed did the right thing for herself by throwing Corky under the bus. Hired amoral killer he may be, but he did seem to genuinely care about her, and was probably in a better position to protect her if things went south than Pine is. Also, I'm not quite prepared to say that it was okay Pine killed him because Roper would have anyway. The only reason Roper was gunning for Corky is because Pine deliberately and falsely set him up to look like a traitor. 

I do appreciate the way that the writing does not let Pine off the hook for his actions. He decided to discredit Corky, knowing it would likely get the man killed, and he ends up having to kill him with his own hands. He personally napalms a village to impress Roper, and he's the one who has to see the melted remains of the woman who didn't get out in time, and face her family. No intermediaries, no keeping his hands clean, no room for denial. It's the exact opposite of Roper, who has people around him at all times to accept the consequences for his choices.

Well played, Night Manager. Well played. 

[dubbel zout]

21 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

Hired amoral killer he may be, but he did seem to genuinely care about her, and was probably in a better position to protect her if things went south than Pine is.

I think Pine would sacrifice himself for Jed if he had to. I don't think Corky would have.

[Amethyst]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

They really need to stop looking at each other so much. I know some of that is for the audience's benefit, but give us some credit for remembering what's happened in previous episodes.

Right?  I'm surprised that Roper's other bodyguards haven't noticed.  Corky didn't have to dig deep, these two are really obvious with the longing stares.  

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He has this little fireworks display, in the middle of nowhere but near the Syrian border, and nobody noticed?

I thought that was the point of the father and son who were murdered, though?  People did notice, it's just wasn't anyone that Roper would care about.  He could have bombed a whole village and all he would have seen are dollar signs.  I think Pine was under the impression that the area was completely deserted as well.

[scrb]

I meant all that fireworks lighting up the dark desert would be seen by satellites.

[ladders]

I also thought the fireworks were too big. Shooting down planes? Not even a risk-taker, arms-dealer would burn that much money, nor would it escape notice by governments.

I was a bit uncomfortable with this episode. A few things were quite predictable.

[Captanne]

They shot down drones.  Much, much smaller objects than planes.  (Depending on the plane but the way I read your post, people thought those were dummy F-16s or something.)  They were Tonka Toys.

[RedHackle]

So far I'm mostly loving the series, but I too had some problems with the episode. I'm totally willing to suspend disbelief for things like the nighttime staged battle not drawing a closer look from US Military, et al. 

But the thing with the trucks really bothered me.  First,  I didn't know how it would be done, but it seemed obvious we were heading for some kind of switcheroo.

Also, if I followed the dialog correctly, the reveal means that all those trucks were nothing more than a MacGuffin.  The actual arms were never in-country, so there was no need to fake anything.  I got that what Roper was saying was that supplying humanitarian aid is what keeps him off MI5/CIA radar, but since there were no arms being moved in that country, there was no real need for the decoy trucks, right?  But I may have the details of this wrong, and someone here can explain to me what I missed.

Volatile drunks with a bad attitude and an ax to grind would be a very scary thing to have around. I would think that Roper would be as relieved to have Corky out of the picture as Pine was. I know I am.

Oh, one question - did I understand correctly that on the intel that Pine found, Felix represents the CIA? If so, that's pretty good.  The Bond fans here will know that Felix Leiter was Ian Fleming's CIA operative.

[dubbel zout]

45 minutes ago, RedHackle said:

Also, if I followed the dialog correctly, the reveal means that all those trucks were nothing more than a MacGuffin.  The actual arms were never in-country, so there was no need to fake anything.

Roper knows there's some sort of leak, so I think faking the delivery was a way to test that.

[Captanne]

He's finding out that the leak is serious from his own moles in MI6 and MI5.  He owns them, too.  Which is the entire point of Burr's conversation at the front door, no?  "We need Roper to maintain the balance of power."  "And line your pockets."

[dubbel zout]

That was also a not-so-subtle threat to Angela to back off or else.

[Captanne]

It was a blatant threat -- it was the threat itself, "Don't close that door...."

But, my point was that Roper has moles throughout MI6 and MI5 -- which Burr patently accused that guy at the door of being.

[VCRTracking]

I didn't notice this watching him on Supergirl but seeing him on a British show I realized David Harewood looks like a black Daniel Craig!

Edited May 20, 2016 by VCRTracking

[meep.meep]

If I were Pine, I'd be more worried about the staff recognizing him than Freddie Hamid. I doubt that Freddie ever noticed him. But...did Burr clean Cairo out of his resume?

[attica]

Yes, she did. Corky mentioned at one point that there was an 18 month gap in Pine's CV, which corresponded to his Cairo time.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, Corky.  He was such a weasel, but I'm kind of going to miss him and Tom Hollander's awesomeness.  But Pine couldn't have picked a better scapegoat, even though I do think Roper is probably still suspicious of Pine.  I was kind of surprised Corky even made it a fight, because between the height difference and Pine's military background, I would have thought Pine would have finished it before it even started.  Maybe he was just caught off guard.

While he isn't flashy as I thought he would be, I'm actually kind of liking how Hugh Laurie plays Roper.  Instead of being a showboat and reliving in his evil doings, he's almost treating everything he does like another day in the office, and that's almost just as scary.  Because it just makes him come off like a guy who has done these kind of things so many times, it's natural to him, and that's is way beyond fucked up.

I know there was bunch of lines and stuff between Roper and Jed in the tent, but it was kind of hard to pay attention when Elizabeth Debicki was pretty much spilling out of her nightie throughout the entire scene.  That said, could Jed and Pine be more obvious with the staring at each other?

Poor Angela.  I knew something bad was going to happen to her husband.  At least he's still alive, but I'm sure Tobias Menzies character will be more then willing to keep doing this.  And I'm guessing she lost Joel as an ally too, so I don't know what she's going to do.

I eventually figured out that Roper was pulling some kind of trick with the trucks, but it took me longer to piece it together, then expected.

Curious to see how this will end in a few days!

[Captanne]

Corky was also in the military.  Roper introduced him as Major Corcoran.

[attica]

Quote

 Tom Hollander's awesomeness.

I just binged on Doctor Thorne, a costume drama on Amazon starring Hollander. And no lie: for as scenery chewing and catty as Hollander is as Corky, he's understated and loyal and loving and stalwart as the title character. Awesomeness indeed.

[SongbirdHollow]

On 5/22/2016 at 11:23 AM, Captanne said:

Corky was also in the military.  Roper introduced him as Major Corcoran.

and Pine told Jed he was a trained killer, when he was telling her Corky needed to take the fall.

[Catherinewriter]

How did Pine learn how to manipulate the weaponry so quickly? He said he didn't know where they were going or for what, and then he's in charge of the massacres. (They were massacres, right, of people somewhere? And to those who say Roper isn't evil enough I say WTF? Watch his face when he's sussing someone out, and then,, oh I don't know, watch his actions!!!! Truly evil man. This is one he most menacing  series I've ever seen.

Love  Olivia Colman. Wonder what's up next for her.

[NumberCruncher]

Just now, Catherinewriter said:

How did Pine learn how to manipulate the weaponry so quickly?

He was a former soldier with combat experience.

[cakes1975]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:43 AM, scrb said:

Roper must have really bought off the intelligence services.

He has this little fireworks display, in the middle of nowhere but near the Syrian border, and nobody noticed?  Yet a day or too later, he gets the same satellite feed of the convoy that both London and Washington were getting?

It is one thing to buy off some individual bureaucrats in the capitals but actually get satellite feeds?

And why were there US troops in the border between Turkey and Syria?  It has to be some kind of alternate reality, right?

He's making $240 million on the deal, which is a lot of money.  But he's got to buy off spooks in the UK and the US, then a mercenary army hanging out in the desert with champagne and other pricey liquor.

Thats got to eat into his profit margin a lot, doesn't it?

And did they drive from Turkey to Cairo?  Not too far but they'd have to drive through Syria?  Maybe they didn't show them flying.  But then Roper couldn't surprise them by telling Pine that they're going to Cairo.

The US has four air bases in Turkey, and if the maps are correct at least two of them are on the Syrian border, Eastern and Western edges; so it might be a stretch in terms of this story, but not by much. Since Roper has contacts in the Government, the satellite feeds and the fireworks being ignored by various intelligence agencies can also be plausible in terms of the story.

I think Roper has many resources that are not being telegraphed to the audience, which I like because I like to use my brain sometimes while watching television; so I think he is more than able to pay his private army and still look more than well off, let's face it Roper knows how to roll with the big boys.

I also think it is a production decision to not show Roper and crew in airplanes. The driving from airports and using local livery services allows them to show respect towards the locals as well as give a haughty colonialist vibe to the viewers; and since some of the drivers are bodyguards, they stand out a bit less. 

[Milburn Stone]

Dromgoole says that Roper serves the higher interests of Britain and the U.S., but how? If it's something we find out about in Episode 6, don't tell me, I haven't watched it yet. But are we kind of supposed to figure that out from what we know so far? Because I can't. Unless (switching to real life here) we want Assad of Syria to be able to attack his own people and stay in power. Maybe that's what we're meant to infer? That despite our lip service to getting rid of Assad, we really find him more to our liking as "the devil we know" than ISIS or whoever might take over Syria next?

[Mama No Life]

hardest bit for me to swallow was that Pine could remember and write down all those license numbers in that short a period of time.  Are we supposed to believe he has a photographic memory or something?