S04.E04: Lights of Winter

[ari333]

If Emma cant make it outta town alive after a freakin lung transplant, then that will blow. 

 

Is it weird to think that Norman will react ...urm...badly to the realization of Dylan with Emma and Romero with Norma together/married?  That's a lot to take in for a fragile, ill person  like Norman. I know that he's violent and homicidal, but he's also fragile  (imo)

 

I guess Julian is real after all. I wish we knew what went down to start all the fighting in the club.

 

If patients can simply throw up their meds, what's the point of the mouth check

[RCharter]

If Emma cant make it outta town alive after a freakin lung transplant, then that will blow. 

 

Is it weird to think that Norman will react ...urm...badly to the realization of Dylan with Emma and Romero with Norma together/married?  That's a lot to take in for a fragile, ill person  like Norman. I know that he's violent and homicidal, but he's also fragile  (imo)

 

I guess Julian is real after all. I wish we knew what went down to start all the fighting in the club.

 

If patients can simply throw up their meds, what's the point of the mouth check

I don't particularly think he will care about Dylan/Emma (I could be wrong, but Norman never seemed all that into her)....but I think its going to be an ugly mess when he finds out about Norma/Romero.

[OSM Mom]

I guess Julian is real after all. I wish we knew what went down to start all the fighting in the club.

My theory based on what Norman's Dr said. Julian breaks out frequently. He's known to go to that strip club when he does. So when they let him in, they called Pineview and told them. Then one of the bouncers went and got Julian to hold on to him til Pineview got there. Julian started a fight because he doesn't want to go back. Police are called etc etc.

[truthaboutluv]

Actually I just think Julian had a manic episode because per Dr. Julian, he suffers from bipolar disorder and has violent tendencies. I don't think he didn't want to go back because as the doctor said, he breaks out so they can come after him because in a twisted way he sees it as their caring since it's clear he doesn't feel like his parents do. I think it was obvious right from the moment they broke out that Julian was in a manic state and Norman's side-eye at him made it clear even in his nutty state he too realized something was off.

 

So my guess is Julian did or said something when he went in the backroom with the stripper that maybe upset or freaked him out, she called the bouncers and they were telling him to leave but again because he was manic, likely off his meds, he lashed out, causing all the drama, etc. By the way, was I the only one who laughed out loud at Norman just standing there with the ice pick in his hand, while wearing a really stupid boa around his skinny chest. The whole thing was just so ridiculous. 

[Avaleigh]

So Norman became a lesbian in this episode. That's a new one. I was sure that Julian was imaginary, especially with how he never interacted with anyone but Norman at the facility. But then that driver said goodbye to both of them. I thought it was kind of a lame fakeout by the writers, but whatever. I hope Dylan makes it to Seattle with Emma, but I fear one or both of them aren't leaving.

I've been trying to think of ways that Julian could still be imaginary but it just doesn't work. Even if Norman imagined the doctor giving that info about Julian (which btw was the doctor breaking doctor/patient confidentiality by telling Norman all of that stuff about Julian?) that still doesn't explain how Norman got the money that Julian gave to him. 

 

I think inclusion of the character has been off so far so I'm waiting for an explanation because it feels very deliberate. 

[Chaos Theory]

Julian was "Character that brings protagonist on wild ride which eventually gets him to ask for help." I never thought Juluan was fake just a friend for Norman who was there to either get murdered or cause some sort of change in Norman whether temporary or permanent.

[truthaboutluv]

I don't know that the doctor really told anything very specific about Julian and his case. He just said that Julian liked breaking out so they could come after him and he's been trying to help him for four years. I guess it may just be me because I haven't found anything so off about Julian's appearance. Norman is in a mental hospital for rich, privileged people and met a rich, privileged kid whose parents put him there. Julian's existence may have been nothing more than for Norman to get to the point of asking for help as he did at the end, rather than resisting as he'd been doing so far.

I mean it's not like we've never seen Norman make a new and random friend - Cody just popped up while he was helping with the community play and I don't remember anyone questioning the reality of her existence. I'm not sure when it became a thing with this show that suddenly everything with regards to Norman is questioned. Some were convinced Bradley wasn't really there and now Julian. Yeah I get that Norman is nuts and sees this image of his mother who is not there because he goes into a disassociative state but as I said in the last episode thread, we haven't really known him to just make people up from thin air in his head.

eta: Basically what Chaos Theory just said, lol.

Edited April 1, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Dobian]

I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional that the writers gave the impression that Julian was imaginary, making him look a lot like Norman and only seeming to interact with him.

[queenanne]

I mean it's not like we've never seen Norman make a new and random friend - Cody just popped up while he was helping with the community play and I don't remember anyone questioning the reality of her existence. I'm not sure when it became a thing with this show that suddenly everything with regards to Norman is questioned. Some were convinced Bradley wasn't really there and now Julian. Yeah I get that Norman is nuts and sees this image of his mother who is not there because he goes into a disassociative state but as I said in the last episode thread, we haven't really known him to just make people up from thin air in his head.

 

But Carlton Cuse said they liked giving that impression and intended folks to wonder if Bradley was real.  Not because it had any kind of clear or good purposeful structure IIRC, but just 'cuz, they like it to be head-trippy, basically.  And once it's put in bounds as a possibility for one character, it applies to all.

 

Also, in the same vein, when we see Norman see the parts of Pineview that Norma has seen, they look normal and lovely.  Let us get a chance to go "the places only Norman can go", and without going back to double check, I feel like the back areas of Pineview have been lit to be about as creepy as the hall of the Willamette facility, and clearly all that would be on the mindfuckery perception of poor beleaguered Norman.  

Edited April 2, 2016 by queenanne

[DotCotton]

My question is when did Norman's blackout begin that night?  When he is upset in Dr. Edward's car, he says he doesn't know how he got there.  Did it start soon after he threw up his meds, while still at the facility?  At first I thought it started when he was in the room with the stripper and the bra drops on the floor.  It  triggered memories of the teacher and he became Norma.  But then he says in the car he doesn't even remember getting there.  Does he remember hitchhiking, escaping the facility?  I re-watched to look for hints of when it starts and I'm still stumped. 

 

Oh-and I loved his conversation with Dickie, including the handshake.  Gave me a chuckle. 

[ganesh]

Norman could have been lying about when he blacked out.

[queenanne]

My question is when did Norman's blackout begin that night?  When he is upset in Dr. Edward's car, he says he doesn't know how he got there.  Did it start soon after he threw up his meds, while still at the facility?  At first I thought it started when he was in the room with the stripper and the bra drops on the floor.  It  triggered memories of the teacher and he became Norma.  But then he says in the car he doesn't even remember getting there.  Does he remember hitchhiking, escaping the facility?  I re-watched to look for hints of when it starts and I'm still stumped. 

 

Oh-and I loved his conversation with Dickie, including the handshake.  Gave me a chuckle. 

 

If he says he doesn't remember, I'd peg it to when he was doing the bulk of his screaming at Dylan on the phone, just because it's the primary emotional trigger.

 

Norman could have been lying about when he blacked out.

 

Would he, though?  To some extent he'd seem to want to know what's up with him, and to be sincerely bewildered and to want the doctor to give him some answers.  Especially because he doesn't know he's dissociating.  I think in that case you'd lie for later rather than sooner in the process, because you'd be afraid of the thought you were losing time and want to downplay it.

[peacheslatour]

I'd like to know who the hell is minding the store?  Or is the Bates Motel closed down?

I think it's off-season. Remember they went to a Winter Festival, so probably not many tourists to go canoeing or hike the trails or whatever the hell the attraction is supposed to be for people to want to stay at the Motel.

Edited April 2, 2016 by peacheslatour

[DangerousMinds]

How can they keep Norman there against his will?

[RCharter]

I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional that the writers gave the impression that Julian was imaginary, making him look a lot like Norman and only seeming to interact with him.

Exactly. And lets not forget about the turkey pot pie.  :)

 

How can they keep Norman there against his will?

I think once you commit yourself it would be up to the doctor to release you, right?

[Peanut6711]

I was laughing at how Pineview looked like like some 5 star resort property when Norma visited and now that Norman's a resident it's kind of a shabby, dim, creepy mental institution, too.

Yes!  I thought that was very odd too.  The lobby is very upscale but the treatment facility is a only a few degrees classier than the set of One Flew Over the Coco's Nest. 

[AmandaPanda]

I wonder why there isn't a new episode next week?  It next Monday some kind of holiday or is A&E airing something special?

 

It looks like there's some sort of 2-hour special about the OJ Simpson trial.

 

I've been trying to think of ways that Julian could still be imaginary but it just doesn't work. Even if Norman imagined the doctor giving that info about Julian (which btw was the doctor breaking doctor/patient confidentiality by telling Norman all of that stuff about Julian?) that still doesn't explain how Norman got the money that Julian gave to him. 

 

I think inclusion of the character has been off so far so I'm waiting for an explanation because it feels very deliberate. 

 

I keep racking my brain to think of ways he is imaginary as well. From the beginning with the turkey pot pie and then how he seems to only interact with Norman, he was setting off all my "imaginary friend" triggers. He always seemed to just pop out of nowhere and know exactly what Norman wanted. I don't know much about the Norman Bates mythology beyond the first Psycho movie, so I don't know if he ever splinters into other personalities. I was holding out hope until the strip club. As soon as a character other than Norman talked to Julian, I knew he had to be real.

 

As for how Norman is still being kept there, the doctor can override a patient's wishes if the patient would be in danger if he left. I can't remember for certain if the doctor has been told that Norman's "other" personality is his mother, but if so, as soon as Norman said he thinks his mother has killed people, the doctor might start to put the pieces together. On the flip side, if the doctor thinks that Norman's mother might have killed people, he definitely wouldn't send Norman right back home to her.

[truthaboutluv]

Why are people saying Julian didn't talk to anyone but Norman until the strip club? Unless I'm mistaken, didn't he talk to the security guard guy when Norman was getting upset about wanting to go outside? YMMV but I am surprised how much some want Julian to be imaginary only because I just feel like that's such a cliche at this point. Again, thanks to Fight Club, the friend/mentor/etc. who turns out to be all in the character's head is rarely a surprise to the audience anymore. I personally am glad the show didn't go that obvious route and that Julian apparently does exist. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[AmandaPanda]

Julian did talk to the security guard, but the cab driver was the first character to actually acknowledge Julian. The security guard just walked away without saying anything.

[KaveDweller]

How can they keep Norman there against his will?

 

He signed papers giving them the power to keep him there if doctors felt it necessary.

[Luckylyn]

It occurs to me that the pictures taken of Norma and Romero at the winter festival could end up being significant.   She's made a point of concealing her marriage from Norman.  What if the festival pictures end up online or in a newspaper along with a mention of the wedding?  I don't know how much access Norman has to outside information, but I could totally see him stumbling upon an article about Norma and Romero especially when Norman is friends with Julian who seems like the type who could probably sneak access to a computer or newspaper.

[Avaleigh]

It occurs to me that the pictures taken of Norma and Romero at the winter festival could end up being significant.   She's made a point of concealing her marriage from Norman.  What if the festival pictures end up online or in a newspaper along with a mention of the wedding?  I don't know how much access Norman has to outside information, but I could totally see him stumbling upon an article about Norma and Romero especially when Norman is friends with Julian who seems like the type who could probably sneak access to a computer or newspaper.

And he'll ask her what she's been up and if there's anything new and she won't mention it. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the shot of her in bed in the trailer where she's looking over her shoulder is actually Norman imagining her being with Romero. 

[mikesgirl99]

I am glad that Julian didn't turn out to be imaginary. I think it's important to show Norman trying to have relationships with non family members. Prior to this, while attending school, Norman tried to be "normal". With Julian, he didn't have to pretend.

[Lady Calypso]

I think my favourite subtle moment of the episode was during Norman's phone call to Dylan. Max Thieriot made an interesting and fun acting choice when he answered the phone. Dylan sounded excited to hear from Norman, and then he immediately toned it down to sound less enthused. He really does miss his brother.

 

Dylan/Emma going to Seattle? Now, that's worrisome. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. I don't imagine they want to lose Max for next season. Olivia is a different story (mostly because of her being from England) so I think the show could lose Emma for next season, if they really wanted to. So either she's definitely going to Seattle for next season, she's going to get killed off, or her dad's going to die and she's going to stay with the Bates family. Two of those options are not ideal in any way. I also don't want to lose Emma next season, as she's good to keep the show somewhat balanced. I just want them to keep Emma as is, but more in the know on things. 

 

I enjoy Norman having a friend. I know that it's tough as they are both in a mental facility, but it's good for Norman to have someone other than a member of his family. I think it used to help keep him leveled. Now, I'm not quite sure what it does. I am intrigued in watching it, though. Plus, we've never seen Norman have a male friend before. This time, it's a nice change, to see his dynamic with a male around his age.

 

I am really glad that Norma went to see Emma. I've always enjoyed how Norma has viewed Emma like a daughter, so it was nice to see that interaction. Also, Emma telling Norma that it's ok to let go a little bit was much needed. I think Norma actually listened. She seemed genuinely happy at the Festival. 

 

New banker chick looks like she's planning on murdering Norma, or setting her up for Bob's death. Either way, I do not like her.

 

Norman's breakdown was really well done. I'm going to guess he blacked out in the club, but didn't want Dr. Edwards to get him committed for longer than he wants to, so he lied. Maybe as a coping mechanism, it was easier to say he had blacked out the whole time. Mostly because Norman seemed, well, pretty normal and back to his old self the moment he left the facility, up until the stripper scene. But then again, he seemed genuine when talking to Dr. Edwards, so I'm very confused. Either way, I know I'm going to miss this side to Norman when he crosses the line to becoming more Mother than Norman. 

[ari333]

If they wanted Emma out of the show they could have offed her in the surgery. I like here even if she's  a little boring. MAybe it will get more interesting. Does Norman know they are a couple?

[Potanical Pardon]

Is the crazy ex-girlfriend the big bad with Saved By the Bell: College Years Professor Laskey from the Veronica Mars college season? HITG moment.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[DittyDotDot]

Man, this show just keeps getting better and better this season. I'm really loving how it's all starting to come together now.

On 4/1/2016 at 3:19 PM, Avaleigh said:

I think inclusion of the character has been off so far so I'm waiting for an explanation because it feels very deliberate. 

I was almost convinced Julian wasn't real when he was thumbing for rides and no one stopped, but then the guy who did give them a ride actually acknowledged his presence. Anyhoo, I think Julian will be needed as someone to pin the murder of the doctor on. Now, lets see if that theory holds up?

On 4/13/2016 at 10:04 AM, ari333 said:

If they wanted Emma out of the show they could have offed her in the surgery. I like here even if she's  a little boring. MAybe it will get more interesting. Does Norman know they are a couple?

I personally believe both Dylan and Emma will survive the show. IMO, they're the ones who survive to tell the story. They're the family, friends and neighbors who come out and say they had no idea the guy living next door to them was a serial killer. They knew something was off about him, but really never thought he was dangerous or anything... .

[peacheslatour]

I want one of those light up umbrellas!