S01.E07: Wingman

[Lonesome Rhodes]

How did Dan not hear Luci tell Chloe in her house about the wings?  He knew precisely when to enter the conversation 15 seconds later when Chloe suggested a certain partner would be good, did he not?  Dan later professed to have never heard a thing about Luci and wings.   Yeah.  I know.  That would have ruined the intricately timed and blocked edgy ironic reveal when Dan appeared.  SIlly me.

I'm not convinced that he burned the real wings, the fake ones looked real enough until he actually touched them, Amenadiel wouldn't have realized they were fake.

They made a yooge deal out of exclaiming their diVINity in the pre-auction set-up.  They were not like the fake chains and such.  Annnnnyone would and should recognize!  Ooops.  Neither brother sensed the fakes on display.  Too funny.  What a massive continuity and character bust within three minutes of airtime.  YMMV.  Which brings me to my main point:  Amenadiel is an absurd character.  Any angel would instantly recognize the lack of divinity present - in any situation or context.  It's kind of central to their existence.

 

As pointed out above, an Angel can not use deceit to battle evil.  Full stop.  They are not humans.  They are divinity.  They could no more go against God's will than they could grow Devil's horns.  If another one somehow would, they'd be gone in less than an instant in the first instance.  Yes.  I get that this is a TV show and I must suspend disbelief and overlook "mistakes."  The problem for me is that the entire premise of this show is that this is truly Lucifer.   The real deal.  So, OK.  I can deal with a fanciful transformation of the lead.  But, there has to be some base of understanding.   For example, either he is, or is not, immortal.  Ooops.  If something this basic can be blown away by the whims of a given writer, there is no point to the story.  Literally.  If anything is possible, nothing is impossible.  Hey, I know...make Trixie into a Mazi!  Ugh.

 

If Mazi is not now working Luci as a target, I will be severely disappointed.  She's a friend?  Friend????  That girl can't have such a thing.  Please, showrunner, don't allow the one all-in character to find "humanity."  The hot tub scene was great!   Question:  How old, in human years, is Mazi?  No, not the anthropomorphic lady we see.  The demon.   Any ideas?

 

Was Chloe dazzled by Amenadiel like humans are dazzled by Lucifer, or was she just trying to get a rise out of him, or was she surprised that he had such a dissimilar skin tone to Lucifers?

The only way that works, in my opinion, is if she did it just to get his goat, so to speak.  ;)

 

I may have missed this convention in the earlier eps, but LaSalle bugged with his use of washed out and bright light in every scene.  What's with all the glowing?  He took very obvious care with this effect.  To what edgy end?  Give me a break.

 

What school or sport events did Chloe miss with Trixie so she could just run around town every night?   Surely, sheeeee would never let her jooooob prevent her from being there for a taco night.  Right?

 

I could watch the scenes of Luci bopping around L.A. in his car at night time, all day.  

Edited March 10, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Bruinsfan]

Question:  How old, in human years, is Mazi?  No, not the anthropomorphic lady we see.  The demon.   Any ideas?

No clear answer on that in the source material. She's a daughter of Lilith, so some time after the first humans appeared OR the first sentient anthropomorphic life in the physical universe appeared, depending on which comic you go by. Of course in the show's cosmology the Bible could be literal truth with the creation of the universe happening about six thousand years ago rather than over ten billion.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Can Lucifer's Amenadiel Help Our Angel Get (Back) His Wings?
Lucifer's desperate to find his missing wings, so he enlists Amenadiel in the hunt for the divine souvenirs. But he soon realizes that Amenadiel's got his own angelic agenda.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

The problem for me is that the entire premise of this show is that this is truly Lucifer.   The real deal.  So, OK.  I can deal with a fanciful transformation of the lead.  But, there has to be some base of understanding.   For example, either he is, or is not, immortal.  Ooops.

Ooops is right. They put themselves in the same spot as when Star Trek created their transporter for lots of good story reasons, then had to explain why it couldn't just yank a character out of danger every week. A bulletproof Lucifer put a kink in being able to recycle stories we've seen a hundred times before with other TV detectives. So they ditched his immortality, along with any prospects for us seeing fresh spins on those stories. Lazy writers.

[FormerMod-a1]

They could have showed him changing, or becoming mortal.  Wounds could have taken longer to heal, or he could have felt the pain more, things like that, but instead it was all of a sudden that he could be hurt.  

[Mabinogia]

They could have showed him changing, or becoming mortal.  Wounds could have taken longer to heal, or he could have felt the pain more, things like that, but instead it was all of a sudden that he could be hurt.

 

They could have, but that would have actually been interesting, watching him deal with the slow change, debating if he really wanted to change, watching Maze and Amen try to handle the change. But then they would have to write compelling stories instead of some stupid, pointless dirty cop storyline that is clearly meant to get the ex out of the way so Chloe and Luci can be together after snarking and playing their little, boring, played out game for several seasons if the show makes it that long.

 

The worst thing about this show is that it is trying to be something it really shouldn't. It is trying to be a cop procedural because...yeah, IDK either, when it should be a fascinating character study about perception (Luci is perceived as leading us into evil deeds but really we do it ourselves and just like pointing the finger "the devil made me do it") and identity (Luci isn't sure who he is without his job. He is finally taking time to discover himself, what does he actually like to do?) and duty (Luci should be running hell, without him there bad things are going to happen. He has a duty, but what if he doesn't want it? He didn't exactly choose to do it.) There are so many great stories they could be telling but instead we are getting, some dull mortal woman is winning the heart of the Prince of Darkness and making him a real boy!.

[hoopznyo]

 

 

They could have, but that would have actually been interesting, watching him deal with the slow change, debating if he really wanted to change, watching Maze and Amen try to handle the change. But then they would have to write compelling stories instead of some stupid, pointless dirty cop storyline that is clearly meant to get the ex out of the way so Chloe and Luci can be together after snarking and playing their little, boring, played out game for several seasons if the show makes it that long.

The worst thing about this show is that it is trying to be something it really shouldn't. It is trying to be a cop procedural because...yeah, IDK either, when it should be a fascinating character study about perception (Luci is perceived as leading us into evil deeds but really we do it ourselves and just like pointing the finger "the devil made me do it") and identity (Luci isn't sure who he is without his job. He is finally taking time to discover himself, what does he actually like to do?) and duty (Luci should be running hell, without him there bad things are going to happen. He has a duty, but what if he doesn't want it? He didn't exactly choose to do it.) There are so many great stories they could be telling but instead we are getting, some dull mortal woman is winning the heart of the Prince of Darkness and making him a real boy!.

Exactly what I have been thinking.

[BooBear]

They could have showed him changing, or becoming mortal.  Wounds could have taken longer to heal, or he could have felt the pain more, things like that, but instead it was all of a sudden that he could be hurt.  

I suspect this was done, consistent with the sad state of network tv, because they wanted to pull out all the stops in the shows they knew they would have to try to get people to watch. They will then walk it back if they get some extra shows.  If this was on cable, oh drat that it isn't, it could have taken its time. Showtime this would have been a natural to fill the space Dexter was in!!

[Gigi43]

They could have, but that would have actually been interesting, watching him deal with the slow change, debating if he really wanted to change, watching Maze and Amen try to handle the change. But then they would have to write compelling stories instead of some stupid, pointless dirty cop storyline that is clearly meant to get the ex out of the way so Chloe and Luci can be together after snarking and playing their little, boring, played out game for several seasons if the show makes it that long.

 

The worst thing about this show is that it is trying to be something it really shouldn't. It is trying to be a cop procedural because...yeah, IDK either, when it should be a fascinating character study about perception (Luci is perceived as leading us into evil deeds but really we do it ourselves and just like pointing the finger "the devil made me do it") and identity (Luci isn't sure who he is without his job. He is finally taking time to discover himself, what does he actually like to do?) and duty (Luci should be running hell, without him there bad things are going to happen. He has a duty, but what if he doesn't want it? He didn't exactly choose to do it.) There are so many great stories they could be telling but instead we are getting, some dull mortal woman is winning the heart of the Prince of Darkness and making him a real boy!.

 

If this show makes it long enough to pull a Person Of Interest bait and switch, I will be insanely happy. Does anyone here follow that? It started off very cop procedural aided by Artificial Intelligence and how that got started, then more and more it's built up to a war of Artificial Intelligences and nothing I'd ever expect CBS to air. Problem is, viewership did drop and now it seems CBS is holding the last season hostage, which completely sucks. But it gives me hope now with shows to hang in because you never know, the writers have pretty much admitted they wanted to draw the large audience and build it up should they be on long enough to do so (and, of course that was probably how they were able to get it on the air in general.) With Lucifer though I imagine they may feel like they're walking a fine line because you need a certain amount of viewers to remain on the air but considering they are deal with material from The Bible, depending on how deep they go they may turn off people a lot faster if for no other reason than people will either think religion is being trashed, or feel like it's a religious show? I feel like lately with these shows that start with a full 12/13 episode season they want to tell more of a complete story in case they don't make a season 2, so certain things get rushed and dabbling in the deeper areas may hang loose endings. Hopefully, if the show makes it to a full season 2 they can branch out into the deeper issues. I'm not too familiar with the writers of this show though to know if they've done 'deeper' stuff? Do they need the approval of the comic book people if they want to go more their own way? Ellis and Woodside definitely have the range to do a more complex show.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Gigi43

[BooBear]

Do they need the approval of the comic book people if they want to go more their own way? Ellis and Woodside definitely have the range to do a more complex show.

 

It looks like the ratings are doing decently so I bet it will get another season.  Sort of too bad because I would like a cable network to pick it up and make it a deeper show.

[CheshireCat]

Mabinogia, on 10 Mar 2016 - 2:47 PM, said:Mabinogia, on 10 Mar 2016 - 2:47 PM, said:

They could have, but that would have actually been interesting, watching him deal with the slow change, debating if he really wanted to change, watching Maze and Amen try to handle the change.

 

To be fair, we don't know what the deal with his mortality is yet. He says he's mortal because Chloe shot him and he bled. However, bleeding doesn't necessarily equal dying (at least it doesn't when it comes to the devil) and there's still the matter of can anyone else hurt him. His brother can, obviously, but I'd put then, his brother is angelic, so I'd expect that those who originate from the same plane and have a similar status can hurt each other.

 

 

 

QuoteQuote

The worst thing about this show is that it is trying to be something it really shouldn't. It is trying to be a cop procedural because...yeah, IDK either, when it should be a fascinating character study about perception (Luci is perceived as leading us into evil deeds but really we do it ourselves and just like pointing the finger "the devil made me do it") and identity (Luci isn't sure who he is without his job. He is finally taking time to discover himself, what does he actually like to do?) and duty (Luci should be running hell, without him there bad things are going to happen. He has a duty, but what if he doesn't want it? He didn't exactly choose to do it.) There are so many great stories they could be telling but instead we are getting, some dull mortal woman is winning the heart of the Prince of Darkness and making him a real boy!.

 

 

We do get all what you mentioned with the therapist. Granted, I realy could do without Chloe or at least, I could do without a love story between them. Let her get back together with her ex, I like them together and I don't want a girlfriend for Lucifer. He doesn't need a love interest and it's too much Castle anyway. They can be friends if they want to.

Anyway, they are exploring Lucifer with the therapist and he has more than once mentioned that this job wasn't his choice. But I think 40+ minutes of exploration of who Lucifer is could get old pretty fast. It'd be like a therapy reality show.

 

That said, I'd really like more episodes like Wingman, minus the end with Chloe. But Ellis and Woodside paired up is fantastic!

Edited March 10, 2016 by CheshireCat

[LoneHaranguer]

 

There are so many great stories they could be telling but instead we are getting, some dull mortal woman is winning the heart of the Prince of Darkness and making him a real boy!.

I'd describe it more as a Psych or Moonlighting, substituting a wise-cracking bad boy who doesn't follow the rules for the usual wise-cracking man-boy who doesn't follow the rules.

[Trace]

I am so confused with the Palmetto story line.  I thought I had DVR'd and watched every episode, but apparently not.  Which episode is it????

 

And?? Tom Ellis and Kevin Alejandro are so hot I simply cannot stand it.

[storyskip]

I am so confused with the Palmetto story line.  I thought I had DVR'd and watched every episode, but apparently not.  Which episode is it????

 

And?? Tom Ellis and Kevin Alejandro are so hot I simply cannot stand it.

 

The Palmetto story line has been on a slow burn since the pilot episode.  It's a case that started off screen and is the reason why Chloe is an outcast in her department, because a cop got shot and rather than taking up the party line that he was shot a hero, she insisted he was on the take.  That's not going to make her popular with anybody.  Add in that she's a woman and did a bad soft porn flick before becoming a police officer and she's behind the eight ball.

 

Which is why, in the pilot, she had nobody working with her which allowed Lucifer to sort of slot into the role of partner.

 

Come forward to Wingman and we learn that Malcom, the cop who was shot the cop Chloe thinks is dirty, has been in a coma all this time and his family has decided to pull the plug.  Problem is, while Chloe has an open investigation on him his family won't earn his police benefits.  This is further infuriating her "brothers in blue" hence why Dan was pushing for her to either shut the case or pull off a Hail Mary.  Well she pulled off a partial Hail Mary in that she found evidence that suggests there was another shooter and evidence that it is a cop, so more dirty cops.  But she doesn't know who, so she's got to play it quiet for now.

 

Malcom was supposed to die but Amenadiel decided to interfere and now Malcom is alive. 

And if you look at the press release blurbs on up coming episodes, you'll see that Malcom is going to become a factor in the rest of the season.

 

I don't know if anybody else watched the You Tube video with the showrunner that was linked on page 1 but a lot of the questions and concerns being raised on this forum, he addresses in that video.  No real spoilers but enough of an acknowledgement of what the audience wants, while explaining what they're doing with the show and some neat hints here and there.  It's worth listening to and definitely has me all in for the rest of the season.

 

And hopefully season 2 ;)

[thuganomics85]

Late for this one, which was too bad, because I really enjoyed it.  Lucifer and Amendial teaming up was pretty hilarious, and I love how Tom Ellis and D.B. Woodside bounce off one another.  And then Chloe showing up and meeting Amendial, and totally getting the hots for him was pretty great too.  I like how the past episodes have been slowly letting the regulars mix and match and play off one another (like Maze and Dan last week), so I hope they keep doing that.  Eventually, I would even be down with them getting to the point were all of them (and Dr. Linda and Trixie), are in the same scene.

 

Isiah Whitlock Jr. as Carmen was fun, although I always get slightly bummed when he appears on a network show, because I know this means there is zero chance I will get to see him bust out a Clay Davis' like "Shiiiiiiit!" at any point.  They didn't touch on it too much, but I did kind of like the idea of what would happen when an atheist/non-believer suddenly gains possession of a legit item like Lucifer's wings.  How does that effect someone like him?  He clearly seemed to be effected by it big time.

 

Not sure where they are going with Malcolm and the dirty cop story.  I noticed Kevin Rankin (yay!), is being billed as a regular, so I guess he'll be getting involved in these next episodes.  I guess the question is who is the dirty cop.  The obvious suspect is the guy who has been overtly hostile to Chloe, but I can see them trying to "surprise" us, and have it ben Dan or something.

 

I'm enjoying the Lucifer/Chloe scenes more and more, although I hope they don't go down the obvious romantic path.

[jhlipton]

Lucifer has only felt pain when Chloe delivers it, hasn't he?  He may still be immortal and impervious to pain except when it comes from Chloe.

[Bruinsfan]

A bulletproof Lucifer put a kink in being able to recycle stories we've seen a hundred times before with other TV detectives. So they ditched his immortality, along with any prospects for us seeing fresh spins on those stories. Lazy writers.

It's ridiculous, because as the title character it's not like they're going to kill him off in a sweeps event anyway. Any real physical danger to the character is an empty threat. Why not show us something different? Lucifer strolling unconcerned through a hail of bullets with a martini glass in hand making snarky Paul Lynde-esque comments about the perps of the week would at least be something refreshing.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[storyskip]

Eh, given the chatter from the Showrunner, until someone who isn't either Chloe or Amenadiel makes Lucifer bleed I'm not ready to accept full stock that he's 100% mortal.

 

That he believes he's got a mortality issue gives a branch for story-telling that doesn't mean he's actually given up his mortality entirely.

 

Though to be fair, the comics put him in situations where he's 'mortal' or at least de-powered to a vulnerable level.  The duel with Amenadiel and his trip to the realm of the Windowless Rooms for instance.  In both situations it was an opportunity to tell the story of how Lucifer doesn't lean on the crutch of his power to exert his indomitable will on his life.

Edited March 11, 2016 by storyskip

[CheshireCat]

storyskip, on 11 Mar 2016 - 1:07 PM, said:

Eh, given the chatter from the Showrunner, until someone who isn't either Chloe or Amenadiel makes Lucifer bleed I'm not ready to accept full stock that he's 100% mortal.

 

That he believes he's got a mortality issue gives a branch for story-telling that doesn't mean he's actually given up his mortality entirely.

 

Though to be fair, the comics put him in situations where he's 'mortal' or at least de-powered to a vulnerable level.  The duel with Amenadiel and his trip to the realm of the Windowless Rooms for instance.  In both situations it was an opportunity to tell the story of how Lucifer doesn't lean on the crutch of his power to exert his indomitable will on his life.

 

I agree. We don't know for sure if he's mortal or not. And I certainly like his power. I've got plenty of "normal" TV characters to watch, so one with power is a welcome change. I get that they want to tell a story, however, I have a hard time understanding why they would sacrifice what sets show and character apart for storytelling when they have plenty of stories to tell without making the sacrifice.

[Superjaimy101]

Even though the wings have been burned (Yes, Maze (However you write her name) saved a feather for story purposes), I still think that Lucifer would want to keep his wings. I mean, he isn't going to return to the Underworld but those wings would boost his ego. His were bigger than his brother's. I don't think Lucifer burned the real wings.

 

Another thing about Lucifer is the losing power thing. I like the idea of him losing a bit of his power. It just makes the show more interesting. How would someone act, who previously had been invincible, when they suddenly are mortalized. What I don't like is him losing ALL of his power. That would turn the entire show in just another generic one.

 

Then there's Maze. You go gurl.

 

I like the dynamic between Lucifer and Chloe, but I think that Chloe's ex (Dan I believe it was, Something with a D) and Maze would be pretty funny to see working together. I dearly hope it gets a second season. Then we'll see, judging by the second season, if it needs another

[Gigi43]

It's ridiculous, because as the title character it's not like they're going to kill him off in a sweeps event anyway. Any real physical danger to the character is an empty threat. Why not show us something different? Lucifer strolling unconcerned through a hail of bullets with a martini glass in hand making snarky Paul Lynde-esque comments about the perps of the week would at least be something refreshing.

 

That needs to happen now.

 

 

Isiah Whitlock Jr. as Carmen was fun, although I always get slightly bummed when he appears on a network show, because I know this means there is zero chance I will get to see him bust out a Clay Davis' like "Shiiiiiiit!" at any point. 

 

 

I watched the interview with the showrunner that's posted on the previous page, and it may make you happy (as it did me) to know that when they got to talking about Isiah, they did at least start to laugh about the fun it could have been trying to get it passed the Fox Censors if they were to really drag it out and never emphasize the "T"

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Any real physical danger to the character is an empty threat. Why not show us something different? Lucifer strolling unconcerned through a hail of bullets with a martini glass in hand making snarky Paul Lynde-esque comments about the perps of the week would at least be something refreshing.

It would be, but that means he could grab who he wants, when the usual story would have him pinned down by minions while they get away, leaving the writers with time to fill. They could have gone with Lucifer still being immortal, but getting hit by bullets being painful enough that it just wasn't something he was wiling to experience, except maybe to save Chloe, or to march up to someone who he was exceptionally pissed off at (e.g. one who'd dared to steal his wings).

[FormerMod-a1]

If they'd left him immortal, they wouldn't have had to have him walking through a flurry of bullets in every episode.  He could still mostly use his wits.

 

As to the idea that only Chloe and Amenadiel, I would have bought that until this ep, when he didn't even get the red devil eyes while laying his wrath on the people that took his wings.  He was standing there framed in his wings, with the intensity and facial expression he shows when the red eyes appear, and nothing.  He was still very intimidating, don't get me wrong, but it really stood out to me that the eyes didn't change.  So it looks like he's immortal, and now his other abilities are fading away, too.  I hope I'm wrong, but as of right now I'm worried. 

[CheshireCat]

aquarian1, on 11 Mar 2016 - 5:33 PM, said:

 

 

As to the idea that only Chloe and Amenadiel, I would have bought that until this ep, when he didn't even get the red devil eyes while laying his wrath on the people that took his wings.  He was standing there framed in his wings, with the intensity and facial expression he shows when the red eyes appear, and nothing.  He was still very intimidating, don't get me wrong, but it really stood out to me that the eyes didn't change.  So it looks like he's immortal, and now his other abilities are fading away, too.  I hope I'm wrong, but as of right now I'm worried. 

 

I'm not sure if the eyes not turning red meant anything. I think it's something he can control and uses at will and I'm not sure he wanted to do it in that scene. He's previously used it when he wanted to scare people and/or convince them of who he was. He didn't need to do either in that particular scene as the guy already knew who he was, believed who he was and was very scared already. And, personally, I felt that the scene was so much more powerful without the red eyes because it was all him, without anything to assist him. (Which is also why I believe that that he burned the wings was to spite his brother and father more than anything else because he was really, really angry in that scene and he'd have to do a whole lot to convince me that the wings didn't matter to him after that fury!)

[storyskip]

I'm not sure if the eyes not turning red meant anything. I think it's something he can control and uses at will and I'm not sure he wanted to do it in that scene. He's previously used it when he wanted to scare people and/or convince them of who he was. He didn't need to do either in that particular scene as the guy already knew who he was, believed who he was and was very scared already. And, personally, I felt that the scene was so much more powerful without the red eyes because it was all him, without anything to assist him. (Which is also why I believe that that he burned the wings was to spite his brother and father more than anything else because he was really, really angry in that scene and he'd have to do a whole lot to convince me that the wings didn't matter to him after that fury!)

 

 

I agree with this line of thinking.  Also the red eyes/demon face usually results in complete screaming insanity and the last time he just flashed his eyes, his information source went jumping off a roof and Lucifer was still pushing Carmen for information at that point.

 

He even said "before I deal with you, I want to know..." so we the audience didn't "see" him deal with Carmen.

[gwhh]

Maybe his father is slowly taking away his powers to turn him mortals.  That why Chloe not affected by him. 

 

I wonder how many insane rooms they have in LA for the totally insane.  Because they are going to need more of them? 

 

Why did Amenadiel get the temp job of guarding the gates of hell??

 

 

Lucifer has only felt pain when Chloe delivers it, hasn't he?  He may still be immortal and impervious to pain except when it comes from Chloe.

Edited March 13, 2016 by gwhh

[vampdetective]

I was surprised it didn't come up even once. It's pretty weird to hear he's searching for "wings" when she knows he has those scars on his back. For all she knows, he's mentally ill and paid someone to give him those scars so he could tell people he once had wings, and it's all part of a serious "angel complex" delusion. Or something.

 

I want to know if she made the connection too! But I'm not sure if she would confront him about it. When he became an official consultant, she stopped trying to figure out what's going on with him. She probably realized that he's never going to give her the answer she wants to hear (that it's all an elaborate roleplay), and their working relationship will just get antagonistic if she's constantly trying to worm the "truth" out of him.

 

Honestly I'd prefer that Lucifer develop real romantic feelings for Dr. Linda in the midst of paying her in trade for therapy sessions thanks to the way she challenges him intellectually and prompts him to confront identity issues, as opposed to becoming obsessed with banging Hot Tub Homicide Detective because she's the one special snowflake he can't instantly charm. They also had a moment a few episodes ago where Linda brushed aside his offer of more sex because she was professionally intrigued and felt they were nearing a breakthrough in therapy—that's a more organic resistance to his aura than just showing up and being unaffected for no discernible reason from the start, and it works better for me. (They could have just had Lucifer not trying to charm Chloe because he needed her clear-headed for the investigation of his friend's death, and then either continuing to choose not to because he enjoyed their banter on a more equal footing or being unable to because she already knows him too well for the mystique to work.)

 

Lucifer didn't intentionally try to charm Chloe at first. The carnal fascination thing seems to happen regardless of whether he's trying, such as his first meeting with Dr. Linda. It's only when Chloe didn't respond to him as expected that he started trying, and in the most awkward ways, which just showed how unused he was to having to make an effort with women. Although he jokes about sex still being on the table, I think he gave up trying to charm Chloe (or figure out why she's resistant) after the incident with the wing scars. But maybe seeing Chloe's reaction to Amenadiel will change that!

 

I think Chloe challenges Lucifer just as much as Dr. Linda, but in a different way. Dr. Linda approaches him in an intellectual way, whereas Chloe approaches him in an emotional way. Dr. Linda analyzes his thoughts and actions on an abstract level whereas Chloe makes him confront how his thoughts and actions affect the people around him for good or bad. As a therapist, Dr. Linda has to indulge (or appear to indulge) whatever he throws at her whereas Chloe can tell him bluntly when he's being an ass. Dr. Linda believes that in order to help Lucifer, she has to understand him to the Nth degree. In this episode, Chloe said that she doesn't understand why the wings were important to Lucifer, but as his friend, it's enough for her to know that they were important.

 

I don't know if the show is clever enough to set up the contrast of Dr. Linda = reason and Chloe = faith but it's there (for now). Chloe is obviously going to eventually find out that Lucifer really is the Devil. It would be interesting if she comes to that realization not through any concrete proof, but instead just by becoming close enough friends that she will take him at his word.

Edited March 13, 2016 by vampdetective

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Chloe will not make what appear to be obvious connections until she is ready to believe the outlandish idea that Lucifer is Lucifer. Her ridicule is very real. I wouldn't believe a random guy I run into is a devil just because they so they are and have had a few weird things happened around them. And I am a Christian.

 

Does Dr. Linda believe he is the devil? Chloe is not buying his bullshit and neither does Linda but she is playing along. As a professional physiologist, she must find this guy who appears to be thoroughly convinced he is the Almighty's own Son very very fascinating. 

[HalcyonDays]

Does Dr. Linda believe he is the devil?

 

I don't think she truly does. I saw it as she just "learned the lines" and the specific mythology aspects from Amenadiel, and he explained to her why this tactic of actually acknowledging Lucifer as the Devil (or as Samael) would work to get him to finally open up and bare his soul. She really doesn't believe he is the true Devil.

[Bruinsfan]

She's openly said she's willing to work within his metaphor, so she obviously thinks the whole Devil thing is a delusion or self-defense mechanism Lucifer uses to distance himself from his issues. Of course, Chloe has seen a lot of things she hasn't, like the weird effect he has on almost everyone, flinging that agent across the room like a doll, the wing scars, and turning Jimmy into a gibbering lunatic with a glance. (She's also seen Mazikeen effortlessly take down an entire parking garage full of armed gang members without so much as mussing her hair, which ought to be ringing alarm bells as well.)

[Gigi43]

With all the sex Lucifer and Dr. Linda have been having, it would be a little odd if she's never seen the scars. Airhead starlets he may be having foursomes with in a dark room, fine (though they could still be touched accidentally?) but we're now even seeing Linda turn down (well postpone) sex in order to have a conversation session. She wouldn't notice and question?

[jcin617]

I would have expected him to easily get the upper hand in a fistfight with Amenadiel. I'd think only archangels like Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, etc. would be able to engage him on a somewhat even playing field.

Which is why I'm curious why Amendiel isn't Michael; he's traditionally the archangel who stands opposed to Lucifer.

[storyskip]

Which is why I'm curious why Amendiel isn't Michael; he's traditionally the archangel who stands opposed to Lucifer.

 

According to an interview with DB Woodside, the TV series Amenadiel is a combination of the comics Amenadiel and Michael.   Why the show writers decided to combine the two comic characters hasn't really been explained yet because they were VERY different character types/relationships with Luci in the comics.   Though I suspect from a story telling perspective Michael might have been a hard fit in his 'pure' form to the series.

[Gigi43]

I wonder if, and this could be a judgement on my childhood Sunday Schooling, it's because Michael is a better "known" Angel to the public if you're going off the Bible. If you've got Michael and Lucifer (and later down the road if they want to use another well known Angel like Gabriel) running around that's going to look differently to the public than Lucifer and Amenadiel, it probably would have risked turning viewers away from the jump even more than they're risking just by doing a show called "Lucifer" itself, by people thinking it'll be to religious or looking to trash said Angels they grew up hearing about.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Gigi43

[storyskip]

Not discounting any theory!  My own would be it's because of the story arc involved in the character of Michael in the comics.

 

In the comics, shortly after he fought and defeated Lucifer, Michael was enslaved by the angel Sandalphon who then tried to create an army of warrior angels. Most failed but Michael did "father" Elaine Belloc who is a very central figure in the comics and who eventually takes over for Yahweh when Yahweh leaves, Michael's died and Lucifer says "nope" to ruling over Creation. Obviously all this mythos would be VERY difficult in a Network TV show and doesn't fit in with the series' direction so they would have had to completely re-write Michael to put him in the series and then there is the whole Elaine question.

 

Not to suggest that if the series gets picked up for a couple of seasons the writers won't address the idea of an actual Michael figure but for the time being I can understand why they didn't tap that mythos from the comics.

[vampdetective]

I think they dropped Michael (or combined him with Amenadiel) to keep the cast from getting too bloated, at least in the first season. Lucifer has one ally in Maze and one enemy in Amenadiel. If Michael was there, whose side would he be on? (I haven't read the comics.) Also, setting up Lucifer and Amenadiel as brothers who were once close but are now becoming enemies makes for stronger drama (and tragedy) than if Lucifer has another brother to whom he's close.

[galaxychaser]

Luci is beyond sexy. Sigh.

Guess Luci doesn’t want to go back to hell ever. Good episode.

[galaxychaser]

Chloe isn’t all that. 
Guess Luci can be killed?