S02.E01: Politically Incorrect

[Tara Ariano]

In the Season 2 premiere, Cait and her friends embark on an epic cross-country road trip in a tour bus, at which point the opportunity presents itself for the women to corner Cait about her sexual orientation and her politics.

[iwasish]

She's worse than last season. The ladies should have left her on the side of the road and driven off without her.

Her new look in her talking heads... Channeling Kylie.

[woodscommaelle]

Kylie looked like she just came from paratrooping. Wtf was she wearing?

I found it odd that there was an 18 yr old on this trip.

Edited March 7, 2016 by woodscommaelle

[iwasish]

Yeezy and a bandana around her tits.

[Artsda]

Did Cait see any of these people since season 1 finished? It sounded like she didn't see them for 6 months or something one of them said. I don't think any of these people are real people in her life, these are people she's paid to spend time with. Kendall & Kylie had never seen anyone other than Candis.

 

 Candis since she's also in showbiz/LA she could be a real person in Caitlyn's life, but none of the others at all. When one of them insisted they were Cait's friend, all I could think is no you're not. The people in Caitlyn's life are her kids, mainly her girls, her "team", and her country club people.

 

Jenny seems to force her opinion a lot to try and mold or convert Caitlyn. There was just too much of Jenny.

 

Caitlyn's a 1%'er, who spends everyday at a private golf club, yes she's going to obviously stay Republican.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Artsda

[millennium]

 I don't think any of these people are real people in her life, these are people she's paid to spend time with. 

 

Or, more appropriately, they are paid to spend time with her.

 

As I mentioned in the media thread, Boylan is fantasizing about throwing Jenner under the RV, but won't commit, probably because of the paycheck and the exposure.   Or maybe because Boylan's own credibility is now so compromised by her participation in this farce that she feels she MUST overturn Jenner's ignorance just to vindi-cait herself.   

[cherry slushie]

Is it just me, or are most of the 'I am Cait' episodes boring?  I find myself focusing on other stuff while I'm watching it, and the most I glean from this show are the travesties of being transgender; complete with whining, complaining, depressive topics/issues etc.  I understand that it's most certainly a tough situation in life since many don't accept it, and the hatred and shunning can be brutal; but do they have to talk about it on every.single,show?  I'd like to see Cait out and about with people other than this group; adjusting to her new life via meeting people, running into old friends, dating, shopping, etc.  Basically the stuff we all do in real life.

 

That said, interesting tidbit about being open to dating men.  It's hard to imagine, but good for her.

[millennium]

Jenner is boring.

 

She was boring before, she's boring now.

[GaT]

How can someone possibly be that clueless? She really believes republicans will help transgenders get jobs? WOW. And in the preview she asks someone something like

"tell me what it means to be a woman besides the hair & makeup & clothes" That's what she thinks being a woman is all about, she really is a Kardashian.

[millennium]

Just a word of caution.   Due to the political content of this episode -- and this site's "no politics" policy -- I checked with a moderator a couple days ago about how we would be able to discuss it.   This was after several posts related to this topic were removed from the KUWTK forum.

 

The mod checked with Dave and this was the guidance I received:

 

as long as the conversation is on topic and doesn't devolve into a political debate, things should be fine for discussion for season 2 of I Am Cait.

[Muffyn]

On a totally shallow note, in her talking heads, Cait reminded me of Jaclyn Smith on Charlie's Angels. 

 

Cait is so convinced of her view of the economy and the idea that social programs are the reason for the debt that she cannot listen to anything else.  One of the key things I came away with last season is that Cait is a self-centered, shallow person who is not particularly bright or interesting.  This episode only served to further that understanding. 

 

If they weren't all being paid, they would have kicked her off the bus or asked to be dropped off at the nearest bus station so they could get away from her.   I did enjoy seeing the bus roll into the Best Western - not exactly a hotel Caitlyn would normally stay at. 

[millennium]

If they weren't all being paid, they would have kicked her off the bus or asked to be dropped off at the nearest bus station so they could get away from her. 

 

By being on that bus -- by staying on that bus -- these so-called transgender advisors are implicitly putting their seal of approval on anything Jenner says or does.   Sure, they may balk at some of Jenner's more outrageous statements but their presence enables those statements and the person making them.   Their participation lends this whole charade the guise of legitimacy and perpetuates and reinforces the public delusion that Jenner is some kind of transgender messiah.

[Granny58]

How can someone possibly be that clueless? She really believes republicans will help transgenders get jobs? WOW. And in the preview she asks someone something like

"tell me what it means to be a woman besides the hair & makeup & clothes" That's what she thinks being a woman is all about, she really is a Kardashian.

I believe she means Republican policies will help for more jobs to be available and transgenders get their own jobs.  After all, unless you're on a bus whining about life all the time how would any employer know if you're TG or not?

[millennium]

After all, unless you're on a bus whining about life all the time how would any employer know if you're TG or not?

 

Wow.

On a totally shallow note, in her talking heads, Cait reminded me of Jaclyn Smith on Charlie's Angels. 

 

 

With Bosley's voice.

Edited March 7, 2016 by millennium

[Febgirl]

Jenny Boylan annoys me to no end. What I would love to see is for her and Kate Bornstein get into it. I've always thought of them like Professor x ( boylan) and Magneto ( bornstein). That is, of the same tribe, but with wildly different ideas of how one should fit in the world.

[nexxie]

Well, the verdict is in for me - Caitlyn is no more likeble than Bruce. Blech!

But I found it kind of funny that she could give up her gender more easily than her politics!

Edited March 7, 2016 by nexxie

[nexxie]

nm, wrong thread

Edited March 7, 2016 by nexxie

[operalover]

I believe she means Republican policies will help for more jobs to be available and transgenders get their own jobs.  After all, unless you're on a bus whining about life all the time how would any employer know if you're TG or not?

"trangenders" as a noun is considered offensive. The term is transgendered people. 

[bichonblitz]

Boylan needs to back off of Caitlin, it's becoming a bore.  Let the woman be who she is. As clueless, superficial and narcissistic as that is, it's not up to Boylan to change her. 

 

Also, is it really anybody's business how Cait sexually identifies herself? She's clearly uncomfortable discussing that.  I bet she would love to tell these people to fuck off. Except for Candis, of course. 

 

Funny that Cait has her hair and makeup people on the bus with her. Can she not do her own damn hair and makeup while on a friggin bus tour?  She really is not based in reality at all. Wonder how that went over with all her "girlfriends" on the bus. 

[iwasish]

I thought it funny that they left the bus, got seated in the restaurant, ordered lunch and started eating before noticing Chandi wasn't there, she had gotten locked on the bus!!

 

Caitlyn correcting the pronunciation of designer names and spending all her time on her cellphone, she's truly a Kardashian.

[woodscommaelle]

One thing I learned from this episode:  I must visit the Grand Canyon.

Edited March 7, 2016 by woodscommaelle

[Primetimer]

Lalalalalalalala Cait isn't listening to you!

Read the story

[nexxie]

imo Boylan can only stomach this reality show if she stays in the professorial role that E! probably used to sell her on it.

Edited March 7, 2016 by nexxie

[Kromm]

Did Cait see any of these people since season 1 finished? 

Why would she see people who aren't actually her friends?

 

 

 

Jenny seems to force her opinion a lot to try and mold or convert Caitlyn. There was just too much of Jenny.

The problem isn't what Jenny is saying. The problem is that she's compromising herself left and right even appearing on this show under this pretense that she's trying to "teach" a raving egomaniac about issues that don't affect said egomaniac, and thus (because the egomaniac has no real empathy) won't ever change her mind. Ergo, Boylan disgraces herself doubly... no wait lets say quadrupally--first for being on the show in the first place, second for RETURNING to the show after it became clear what Caitlyn Jenner really is and represents, third for hedging around why she came back and not just admitting it was for fame and exposure, and fourth for trying to justify her presence with this "teacher" role which just comes off as unpleasant, condescending, and intrusive.

she MUST overturn Jenner's ignorance just to vindi-cait herself.   

Hah. I see what you did there.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Kromm

[Muffyn]

I thought it funny that they left the bus, got seated in the restaurant, ordered lunch and started eating before noticing Chandi wasn't there, she had gotten locked on the bus!!

 

Caitlyn correcting the pronunciation of designer names and spending all her time on her cellphone, she's truly a Kardashian.

Given that someone was on the bus filming Chandi and everyone has a cellphone, I call reality TV shenanigans on that scene.  Had this not been reality TV, she or the cameraperson would have called someone if they were really stuck or one of the group would have gone looking for her well before their food was ordered and delivered. 

 

A reminder from last season, transgender is an adjective.  So we have transgender people, transgender women, and transgender men.  You will also hear the persons on the show refer to themselves as transwomen, transmen (when one appears), transpeople or transpersons; these are nouns.  Transgendered is not correct (even if spell check allows it).  As a friend of mine likes to say, she is a "transgender Italian-American, not a transgendered Italianed-American."  The more you know.  Taking off my grammarian hat now so I can go back to my usual mess.

[possibilities]

I don't really understand this show. If it's meant to glorify and celebrate Cait personally, why are they not hiring fans who will just showcase her and have fun, etc? And if it's meant to be about transgender people in general, why are they just riding around on a tour bus and eating at diners instead of interacting with people outside her bubble?

 

I don't actually think there's anything wrong with people having a heated debate about issues (whatever issues they feel strongly about, whether it's transgender rights or the economy or whether to wear white after Labor Day), but the argument they had in this episode wasn't really all that illuminating. In a way, Cait was saying she thinks the economy is a more important issue to vote on than transgender rights. People do sometimes prioritize issues and vote based on one thing and despite another. So if she had said she knows that the Democrats are more supportive of laws protecting transgender people, but she still prefers the Republican view of the economy and thinks that's more important, that would have been something I disagree with but at least she would have seemed like she was paying attention enough to know what choices she was making. But she wasn't saying that. She was saying she believes in the Republican economic approach, but also that she does not believe that Republicans are less supportive than Democrats on transgender rights. And that is just not factual. It's not like the Republicans hide their opposition. There are actual statements being made and votes being taken. So then it just looks like she's speaking on something she really doesn't know anything about, hasn't paid attention to, and doesn't want to bother to investigate.

 

And, again-- fine. She doesn't have to focus on politics. There are lots of former athletes and current reality show mactors for whom politics is not a focus and no one ever asks them what they think about that stuff because honestly, who cares? But they aren't being treated as leaders in a political movement, either.

 

So I think that what is happening here is just weird. Cait clearly is only interested in the bubble she's always lived in, she likes clothes and make up and golf and living on a hill and having people follow her around and cater to her every whim. She is not the least bit interested in the everyday lives of anyone who doesn't live the way she does, or in the hardships or ideas or priorities of anyone who disagrees. The attempt to change her is futile. It's a waste of time that makes both Cait and her argumentative entourage look bad.

 

There are other people who can be activists and leaders, who actually give a shit about people who don't live on a hill with a private make up and hair staff. And there are other people who Cait can hire to gush over hair and make up and play golf with her.

 

I think I need to stop watching because I'm not learning anything and I'm not having fun either, so what's the point?

[ClareWalks]

Cait really does seem completely clueless if she thinks transgender people *should be* more worried about the economy than about legislation that will prevent them from being killed in a hate crime. Of course issues like "needing to prostitute yourself to survive" and "worrying that someone will beat you to death" are not on Caitlyn Jenner's radar, because she has millions of Kardashian-Divorce Dollars and a personal security detail. I guess Caitlyn's idea of improving the economy for transgender people is by paying them to appear on her show.

[Cosmic Muffin]

I think Caitlyn is uneducated and not very smart, along with all the privilege stuff.

[GaT]

Boylan needs to back off of Caitlin, it's becoming a bore.  Let the woman be who she is. As clueless, superficial and narcissistic as that is, it's not up to Boylan to change her. 

 

This is something I don't understand, as clueless & self absorbed as I think she is, why is she expected to think exactly the same as every other person who has transitioned? There isn't a hive mind, everyone is an individual.

 

And now this

 

"trangenders" as a noun is considered offensive. The term is transgendered people. 

 

 

A reminder from last season, transgender is an adjective.  So we have transgender people, transgender women, and transgender men.  You will also hear the persons on the show refer to themselves as transwomen, transmen (when one appears), transpeople or transpersons; these are nouns.  Transgendered is not correct (even if spell check allows it).  As a friend of mine likes to say, she is a "transgender Italian-American, not a transgendered Italianed-American."  The more you know.  Taking off my grammarian hat now so I can go back to my usual mess.

Maybe we can get a little help from the Mods here, as much as I love getting lectured every time I come to this thread, which is correct, "transgender" or "transgendered"?

[iwasish]

Cait really does seem completely clueless if she thinks transgender people *should be* more worried about the economy than about legislation that will prevent them from being killed in a hate crime. Of course issues like "needing to prostitute yourself to survive" and "worrying that someone will beat you to death" are not on Caitlyn Jenner's radar, because she has millions of Kardashian-Divorce Dollars and a personal security detail. I guess Caitlyn's idea of improving the economy for transgender people is by paying them to appear on her show.

But she worries more about the economy because for her the economy is more important to her than being transgender. She's more likely to be affected in her pocketbook by a downturn in the economy than she is by an administration that doesn't have LGBT rights as a priority. What issues has she faced since going public? Losing her locker at her beloved Golf Club seemed to be her biggest worry.. that and facing Khloe's stink eye. She's probably benefitted financially way more than she would have had she remained Bruce.

[princelina]

Is it just me, or are most of the 'I am Cait' episodes boring?  I find myself focusing on other stuff while I'm watching it, and the most I glean from this show are the travesties of being transgender; complete with whining, complaining, depressive topics/issues etc.  I understand that it's most certainly a tough situation in life since many don't accept it, and the hatred and shunning can be brutal; but do they have to talk about it on every.single,show?  I'd like to see Cait out and about with people other than this group; adjusting to her new life via meeting people, running into old friends, dating, shopping, etc.  Basically the stuff we all do in real life.

 

That said, interesting tidbit about being open to dating men.  It's hard to imagine, but good for her.

It's not just you :)  I watch because I am curious mostly about the others on the bus, and what you all will say here, but I do drift in and out.  So I missed this bit but I think I've figured it out - the guy in the group is her hair or make-up person, right?

 

I can understand them wanting to discuss politics with her, especially during an election season, and trying to persuade her to their points of view, so that didn't bug - but Jenny's insistence that she must discuss her sexuality/dating preferences did a bit.  I get the impression that she wants to be single - when she said she has 3 ex-wives and that's enough - a lot of people her age who have been married (especially more than once) decide at some point that they prefer singlehood and they are done with marriage.  Her desire to date a man seems to come from a not-very-developed fantasy about being treated like a "lady" by a "gentleman" - as in having doors opened, chairs pulled out, etc. rather than any kind of desire for love or an intimate relationship.  If I remember correctly, she spoke this way about it last year as well (saying that that would make her feel "feminine".)  But if she doesn't want to date anyone, or discuss it, they should let that bit be.

 

Also, the bathroom usage thing irritates me, in that it seems like Jenny etc. are being willfully obtuse - it's not about any of them, but the fact that perverts can use such laws to get into women's spaces.  They are all smart people and should be able to see the difference.

 

Lastly, their constant use of the phrase "the girls" always brings to mind my Super Feminist College Professor (mid-1980's) who was on a pretty constant soapbox about calling females over the age of 18 "women" - I always wonder where she is and what she would say about that :)

[Febgirl]

 

Lastly, their constant use of the phrase "the girls" always brings to mind my Super Feminist College Professor (mid-1980's) who was on a pretty constant soapbox about calling females over the age of 18 "women" - I always wonder where she is and what she would say about that :)

  That drives me crazy, too!  I always tell people, I haven't been a girl since I was 18.  I may chalk it up to the phenomenon of "second adolescence" that  Kate Bornstein ( can I say that she is the OG, and along with Chandi, is my favorite of  CJ's "friends")  mentioned in Season 1, but I hate it when any woman, Cis or Trans, uses it. 

[millennium]

 

Also, the bathroom usage thing irritates me, in that it seems like Jenny etc. are being willfully obtuse - it's not about any of them, but the fact that perverts can use such laws to get into women's spaces. 

 

 

Sounds a bit like the propaganda whites used to express about blacks getting into their spaces and all the evil that would flow from it.

 

Show me all the examples of sexual predators disguising themselves as women to perpetrate sex crimes in the ladies' room --which they can do right now, law or not (because let's face it, sexual predators aren't known for their respect of the law).  Then we'll talk.

[SmithW6079]

This is something I don't understand, as clueless & self absorbed as I think she is, why is she expected to think exactly the same as every other person who has transitioned? There isn't a hive mind, everyone is an individual.

Blasphemer! :-) These days, no matter the "-ism" you believe in or group you belong to, you are an apostate if your thoughts and actions are contrary to the hive's orthodoxy.

I hate it when any woman, Cis or Trans, uses it.

People are allowed to refer to themselves any way they want, and if the members of that group are comfortable referring themselves as "girls," then it's not for anyone else to judge their preferences. Edited March 7, 2016 by SmithW6079

[millennium]

Why would she sees people who aren't actually her friends?

 

The problem isn't what Jenny is saying. The problem is that she's compromising herself left and right even appearing on this show under this pretense that she's trying to "teach" a raving egomaniac about issues that don't affect said egomaniac, and thus (because the egomaniac has no real empathy) won't ever change her mind. Ergo, Boylan disgraces herself doubly... no wait lets say quadrupally--first for being on the show in the first place, second for RETURNING to the show after it became clear what Caitlyn Jenner really is and represents, third for hedging around why she came back and not just admitting it was for fame and exposure, and fourth for trying to justify her presence with this "teacher" role which just comes off as unpleasant, condescending, and intrusive.

 

Personally, I think it's great that Jenner is going on record as supporting anti-LGBT candidates.   There is no faster or more effective way to marginalize herself in the eyes of the community she's claiming to represent.   Every time she opens her mouth, she loses credibility.    Obviously she doesn't care if other transgender people despise her.    We were never what she's about anyway, no matter how much she pretends to "fight" for us.    It's never been anything more than a cheap marketing gimmick -- but now everyone, transgender and non-transgender, are seeing her for what she truly is.

 

She must have a very inflated sense of importance to sacrifice her alliance with the only people who would have supported her through thick and thin.   Does she imagine she's endearing herself to mainstream America by putting a smack-down on "transgender values?"   She's in for a big disappointment.   Her ratings were poor last season.   Now she's going to lose the transgender audience on top of that if she keeps this up. 

 

Please, Caitlyn, keep talking.    I eagerly await the fast-approaching day when you become completely irrelevant.

[millennium]

Blasphemer! :-) These days, no matter the "-ism" you believe in or group you belong to, you are an apostate if your thoughts and actions are contrary to the hive's orthodoxy.

 

 

That's pretty condescending and reductive of people who are fighting for a world in which they can get jobs, use a public bathroom, or just walk down the street without fear of persecution.

 

Understand what's going on in that bus.   All the doubts and fears Boylan and friends had about Jenner are crystallizing.  They are realizing they hitched their wagons not to a star but to a horse's ass.   And now they've got horse shit all over them.  

 

I think it serves them right.   They were stupid to become involved with Jenner.   I have spoken out against Jenner since the very day I heard she announced as transgender.   I keep asking myself, how is it that I, a transgender person who has never met Jenner, could have known that she would be nothing but detrimental to our community, yet Boylan and the rest -- people who have written books on being transgender, have received honors for their views, etc -- jumped right on board?   Did they not see what I saw in Jenner?   Or did they see it and flatter themselves that they could change it?

 

I hope Jenner takes them all down with her.

 

How's that for hive mentality?

[iwasish]

My gut tells me Cait would like nothing better than to have stayed with Kris, transitioned and became just another appearance obsessed member of the Kardashian family. Or since Kourtney doesn't really bring the sexy anymore she could have taken her place in the line up.

[CousinAmy]

 

 

I can understand them wanting to discuss politics with her, especially during an election season, and trying to persuade her to their points of view, so that didn't bug - but Jenny's insistence that she must discuss her sexuality/dating preferences did a bit.  I get the impression that she wants to be single - when she said she has 3 ex-wives and that's enough - a lot of people her age who have been married (especially more than once) decide at some point that they prefer singlehood and they are done with marriage.  Her desire to date a man seems to come from a not-very-developed fantasy about being treated like a "lady" by a "gentleman" - as in having doors opened, chairs pulled out, etc. rather than any kind of desire for love or an intimate relationship.  If I remember correctly, she spoke this way about it last year as well (saying that that would make her feel "feminine".)  But if she doesn't want to date anyone, or discuss it, they should let that bit be.

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is a "plot point" for the show. They will probably have her dating (I'm still thinking it will be George Hamilton, who is the epitome of the  glamorous door-opening gentleman and is also an E! star) so that's why this topic has come up. Even if it never gets that far, I think that the producers (including Cait) are using "sex and romance" discussions merely for show purposes. 

I think it serves them right.   They were stupid to become involved with Jenner.   I have spoken out against Jenner since the very day I heard she announced as transgender.   I keep asking myself, how is it that I, a transgender person who has never met Jenner, could have known that she would be nothing but detrimental to our community, yet Boylan and the rest -- people who have written books on being transgender, have received honors for their views, etc -- jumped right on board?   Did they not see what I saw in Jenner?   Or did they see it and flatter themselves that they could change it?

 

 

Aren't they getting paid for being on this show? 

[millennium]

I have to believe some thought, some weighing of the pros and cons, went into the decision.   I'm not cynical enough to believe that everyone reflexively bends over for cash.

[Cosmic Muffin]

So she's going to want an old school gentleman, who is ok with dating a trans woman. I wonder what age range she wants to date? Her own age? Does the guy have to have equal wealth and power, or at least be some sort of rich businessman? And, if the relationship is at all real, how will she handle any conflict with him? I don't think she likes to be countered on anything. Not that communication in a relationship has to be dictatorial, but I wonder how this will go. Although she seemed to let Kris run roughshod over her. She could fall into the same dynamic, or try to be a take charge woman.

 

Also, I wonder if she'd date a transgender person?

Edited March 8, 2016 by Cosmic Muffin

[millennium]

Maybe Kanye has a brother.

[bichonblitz]

So she's going to want an old school gentleman, who is ok with dating a trans woman. I wonder what age range she wants to date? Her own age? Does the guy have to have equal wealth and power, or at least be some sort of rich businessman? And, if the relationship is at all real, how will she handle any conflict with him? I don't think she likes to be countered on anything. Not that communication in a relationship has to be dictatorial, but I wonder how this will go. Although she seemed to let Kris run roughshod over her. She could fall into the same dynamic, or try to be a take charge woman.

 

Also, I wonder if she'd date a transgender person?

I don't see her dating anyone, ever. What I do see after this show goes away and her "friends" disappear is a very lonely older lady living at the top of the mountain all by herself with an occassional obligatory visit from her kids and her paid hair and makeup people and wardrobe stylists. 

She is completely correct when she says no one will want to be in a relationship with her. At least she has enough insight to realize that.  I don't like her at all but I have to say it must be so difficult to come out at her age, with her celebrity status and money and expect to find true love with someone that is not a famewhore opportunist. It's kind of sad, really. 

[iwasish]

Maybe Kanye has a brother.

or maybe Kris can fix her up with one of Corey's friends?

 

I really don't believe Caitlyn gave much  thought to anything other than make up  and clothing and mani pedis, when she envisioned transitioning.

The ladies on the bus are trying to expand her viewpoint but then Kim is lecturing her on the importance of a good DVM photo.   

[SmithW6079]

That's pretty condescending and reductive of people who are fighting for a world in which they can get jobs, use a public bathroom, or just walk down the street without fear of persecution.

Understand what's going on in that bus.   All the doubts and fears Boylan and friends had about Jenner are crystallizing.  They are realizing they hitched their wagons not to a star but to a horse's ass.   And now they've got horse shit all over them.

 

The seriousness of an issue does not preclude differences of opinion. It has been my observation that both right- and left-wing philosophies very much try to dismiss or marginalize opinions against their accepted orthodoxy and treat as thoughtcrime the expression of dissent. Look at the shitstorms that hit Germaine Greer or Gloria Steinem recently. Or if any homosexual (my preferred term, as a homosexual, not "gay") expressed an opposition to gay marriage.

 

Jenner can state her opinion all she wants. The content of her opinion should be debated and refuted, but not her right to have a one that is in opposition to the accepted one. She was right when she expressed frustration that the "girls" on the bus expected her opinions and beliefs to change just because she transitioned.

 

As for the rest of the women on the bus, I have no sympathy because they now have "horse shit" all over them. I could excuse their first season appearance because they didn't know what the show entailed, but "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." If they couldn't figure out that this show is full of shit from season one, but they signed on anyway for season two, then they decided money over integrity.

 

To me, Jennifer Boylan is a hypocrite to try and distance herself now when it's becoming obvious what a disaster this show is. Given her statements now, it was particularly nauseating when she was reading name definitions at the gift shop or card store and basically kissing Jenner's ass. And Boylan was really out of place badgering Jenner to make declarations about her sexuality that she was not ready to make. Apparently, Boylan supports the right of transgender women to define themselves as they want, except for Caitlyn Jenner, who must define herself as Boylan wants.

 

I couldn't figure out if Jenner was being argumentative about Republicans and transgender people just because the others were all ganging up on her or if she is genuinely obtuse. Let's not forget that this is a "reality" show that needs its drama. And her statement that "Republicans care about individual rights" is really more a Libertarian one. Republicans most definitely want to regulate individual rights (especially for women and homosexuals).

 

What bothered me about those conversations, and to an extent all liberal/conservative discussions I see, is that the other women were refuting with their "feels," not facts, or not doing so very effectively. Instead, they were shouting at Jenner, because obviously shouting at someone is the most effective way to get them to change their opinion.

 

I see in the previews that the man on the bus (who is he?) seems to be developing a relationship with Candis, but has an issue that she is transgender. I can't wait to see how he's pilloried for expressing that he does have an issue with it.

 

I don't understand the editing choices on the "testimonials." Who thought those cuts from left to right during the same talking head was a good thing?

Edited March 8, 2016 by SmithW6079

[Cosmic Muffin]

I'm glad some of you are watching this so I don't have to.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I believe she means Republican policies will help for more jobs to be available and transgenders get their own jobs.  After all, unless you're on a bus whining about life all the time how would any employer know if you're TG or not?

If you're hired as a man and then one day show up as a woman.

[HumblePi]

Is it just me, or are most of the 'I am Cait' episodes boring?  I find myself focusing on other stuff while I'm watching it, and the most I glean from this show are the travesties of being transgender; complete with whining, complaining, depressive topics/issues etc.  I understand that it's most certainly a tough situation in life since many don't accept it, and the hatred and shunning can be brutal; but do they have to talk about it on every.single,show?  I'd like to see Cait out and about with people other than this group; adjusting to her new life via meeting people, running into old friends, dating, shopping, etc.  Basically the stuff we all do in real life.

 

That said, interesting tidbit about being open to dating men.  It's hard to imagine, but good for her.

I know that Caitlyn was a boring person for 65 years as a male so her gender may be changed but her personality sure hasn't. She's boring to listen to and boring to see her loping around clumsily. She does have the two-handed hair flipping down pat though and it's getting almost annoying as Khloe can be with her hair touching and flipping back. I have seen photos recently of Cindy Crawford, Julia Roberts and Jessica Lange that all look like they could be siblings to Caitlyn. Maybe she brought photographs of each of them to her plastic surgeon and pointed to the photo and said 'I want that' to her surgeon?

 

Looks, mannerisms, intelligence and manner of speech aside (and that's putting a lot aside), I think that this episode, which I swore on a bible that I wouldn't watch, only served to validate my thoughts about Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn ALWAYS got what she wanted, from the time she was competing in high school track, to the Olympics, to her marriages and now to her life as transgender. This has been a life completely filled with self-gratification, self-importance and self-serving. This is the life of a genuine narcissistic personality disorder. She wants to have her new life with the praise and approval of others, but she insists on keeping the opinions and attitudes of the old Bruce Jenner. There's a conflict of beliefs that are deeply embedded in Caitlyn and they aren't going to change.

 

The others in the bus have known very well that Caitlyn as a transgender person hasn't fooled anyone except herself when it comes to her sexuality and political views. They know her circumstances better than she'll ever know herself. In her first season, Caitlyn said had said on a few occasions that she likes women, clearly implying that she was not, or is not gay or lesbian. She's self confident enough to think that people will believe what she proclaims as truth just because she was married and divorced three times. But three failed marriages can also indicate that she wasn't happy being the male in the relationships but had to prove her masculinity by being married to women and fathering a lot of children. But any male gendered person can accomplish that as long as there's nothing wrong with them physically. Gender isn't in the genitals, it's inside the brain.

 

Finally, Caitlyn admitted that she can see herself dating men! We all knew that already. But Caitlyn insisted on trying to deceive others to save her public image. They were not having it and pushed her into being honest. In much the same way, Caitlyn is in denial about her 'Old School Republican' political viewpoints. Because this country is in a financial crisis, she believes that this is the focus of the party that she's affiliated with, and of course it is. But the concomitant or accompanying viewpoint of her preferred political party clearly has historically shown to be not only extremely unsympathetic but blatantly discriminatory to the LGBT community. Like many Americans, she thinks first and foremost in terms of money and not in terms of social policy or change. Caitlyn is in a very precarious position for someone who cares so much about what others think of her. But in being a wealthy, white celebrity whose every move is news, Caitlyn Jenner has incredible privileges that many trans people never will. She is a trans woman that wants to be viewed as a mouthpiece for LGBT issues, yet she still holds views that are very detrimental to her own community. The last thing the now extinct Bruce Jenner would have ever wanted was for anyone to question his masculinity and even now as a woman, she has held onto that fear of being 'outed' by others. Lastly, she acknowledged her affair with Candis. No surprise there.

 

The bottom line is that the LGBT community and particularly the transgenders are just one small minority group working their way out of the stone ages. The LGBT community is a very small segment of our population classified as 'minority' and demanding their rights as citizens of the USA. Blacks and Hispanics comprise the largest percentage of minorities in the US followed by Asians, Muslims, First Nation, Alaska natives and Hawaiian natives. The struggles for rights of the LGBT are in the infancy stage in comparison to those in the other groups. If Caitlyn wants to influence change then she's going to have to at least get in line with the issues facing transgenders and stand with them in agreement and unity.

Edited March 9, 2016 by HumblePi

[stacyasp]

I have to say after watching this episode I really feel like Bruce Jenner was really only interested in cross-dressing and not actually being a woman.  If you've always felt like a woman (inside) did the idea of being with a man never cross your mind? Doesn't seem like there's much instrospection just a lot of superficial fluff.

Edited March 9, 2016 by stacyasp

[Kromm]

I have to say after watching this episode I really feel like Bruce Jenner was really only interested in cross-dressing and not actually being a woman.  If you've always felt like a woman (inside) did the idea of being with a man never cross your mind? Doesn't seem like there's much instrospection just a lot of superficial fluff.

I won't say that's impossible, but I think that kind of logic is far too binary to fit the real world. It's entirely possible that both things are true at the same time--that when Caitlyn was Bruce there was a bent version of what it meant to be a woman inside Bruce's head, and that steered his desire. But it doesn't make it an illegitimate desire. Gender identity and sexual preference aren't the same thing, after all, and even if the ideas of the then-Bruce were fiction (heck Caitlyn still believes the same things), it really IS probably as simple as "what do you think of yourself as" at the bottom line. The Conservative extremists of course bend that into distracting shallow witticisms like "what if the person thinks of themselves as a carrot?"  In Caitlyn's case however, I think it's enough that she thinks of herself as a woman, and the reasons why she does are irrelevant. 

 

Caitlyn is a legitimate transgender woman in my opinion. Just a deeply stupid and shallow one, that's all. 

What's "bent" applies to how what she believes applies to the rest of the world. Caitlyn not understanding what other people generally feel it means to be a woman doesn't affect her own identity, but it affects her interactions with the rest of the human race. That's why THAT part is relevant, even if how it applies to herself isn't.

[millennium]

 

 

Caitlyn is a legitimate transgender woman in my opinion.  Just a deeply stupid and shallow one, that's all.

 

 

An entire book could be written on the confluence of those three words.   They are simultaneously flexible and inexorable.   In my opinion, they account for much of the acrimony associated with this topic. 

 

I'm reminded of the old saw we used to tell customers about production:  

 

You can get it fast and good, but it won't be cheap.

 

You can get it fast and cheap, but it won't be good.

 

You can get it good and cheap, but it won't be fast.

 

Etc.

Edited March 9, 2016 by millennium