S01.E13: Josh And I Go To Los Angeles!

[Chicago Redshirt]

I liked this episode and think Jap Battle Rap was one of the best of Crazy Ex-GF's many great songs, but I don't really get the high road approach of not using the emails. I mean, I thought she'd, at the least, go to Audra and say, 'Look, we could destroy you, but let's make a deal,' and get a settlement for all those people who had legit been effected by a serious issue. Settling, to me, would have been the high road, since she previously discarded an offer that was likely in her client's best interests in order to spend more time with Josh.

 

Trent obtained the e-mails illegally. So for Rebecca to acknowledge she had gotten evidence through illegal means  would be a bad thing. So she couldn't have tried to leverage the illegal emails into a settlement. Audra would have been able to try to get her in hot water for having hacked the water company.

 

(We have to put aside that she should have already gotten the e-mails legally if this was a real lawsuit, or that once she had possession of the e-mails illegally she should have been able to figure out a way to get them legally.)

[STOPSHOUTING]

Trent obtained the e-mails illegally. So for Rebecca to acknowledge she had gotten evidence through illegal means  would be a bad thing. So she couldn't have tried to leverage the illegal emails into a settlement. Audra would have been able to try to get her in hot water for having hacked the water company.

 

(We have to put aside that she should have already gotten the e-mails legally if this was a real lawsuit, or that once she had possession of the e-mails illegally she should have been able to figure out a way to get them legally.)

 

Not to get too realistic about this obviously unrealistic -- and I'm OK with that -- show, but the logic doesn't track in even the most basic fashion. In reality, it would be up to the other side to PROVE that not only were the emails illegally obtained, but also that Rebecca KNEW they were obtained unlawfully; that's a lot. Once Rebecca knows the email proof exists, she goes to Audra, who legally would have had to disclose them in discovery, so she's in AT LEAST AS MUCH ethical hot water for the cover-up,  and it's a hard way/easy way conversation. We either settle now, or drag your client's name through the mud while we go about getting these emails legally, which any lawyer worth their salt knows they would.

 

First off, nothing discussed in settlement is admissible, so since Rebecca hasn't admitted those emails into evidence, Audra would have no leverage to get her in trouble. And, besides, in even the most vaguely realistic legal terms, information obtained in an arguably sketchy matter, particularly in a civil matter, is less egregious than obviously incriminating information that is willfully withheld by the defense, particularly in a class action. All Rebecca would have to do is go to the judge and say she has a source within the company who says there are emails that prove her clients' case, which the defense has hidden, and the judge could compel Audra to produce the paperwork. (They could argue about bringing forward Rebecca's source, as well, but whistleblower laws could help protect that gambit for a long time.) The truth is, once the emails are known about, the cat is out of the bag, and any even fairly poor lawyer would know that.

 

... Which is all why I sincerely thought the show's endgame, growth moment for Rebecca was going to be the quiet settlement that actually helps the people, instead of a flashy in-court, televised victory over rival Audra. To me, the shrug and let it go ending was baffling, both in the show's universe and any sort of a hero set-up for Rebecca. It just didn't seem to track in any logical, emotional way. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by STOPSHOUTING

[Eyes High]

If Audra was a genuinely happy and fulfilled person she wouldn't be so obsessed with getting one over on Rachel even though Rachel is trying to be nice to her and end their rivalry.

Some people are at their most happy and fulfilled being super competitive and viciously crushing their opponents. They're called litigators.

 

...Seriously, though, being happy and fulfilled doesn't make you any less likely to be competitive if that's your personality. Some people are happy, fulfilled, and obsessed with grinding their opponents into the dirt; for some people, grinding their opponents into the dirt is what makes them happy and fulfilled. "Happy and fulfilled" doesn't necessarily mean "nice" or "conflict-averse." There a lot of genuinely happy and fulfilled people running around whose keenest joy is lording it over others.

 

If Rebecca were a little wiser, she would have identified Audra's nonsense as the ultimate compliment. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all, and Audra is impersonating Old Rebecca, right down to the hairstyle and clothes.

 

The truth is, once the emails are known about, the cat is out of the bag, and any even fairly poor lawyer would know that.

The emails normally would have come out during the discovery process, and if they hadn't, meaning that the company deliberately withheld damaging information that they would have been obligated to disclose, Rebecca could have used that as well.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Eyes High

[Pallida]

I had a hard time enjoying this episode because I couldn't hand wave the complete disregard to how water rights actually work. Knowing too much can be a bitch!

[sacrebleu]

But, I think the work-around for the not winning and not settling issue, is that she ultimately gave the emails to a reporter-- who will write that the water companies did collude to divert water. In essence proving Rebecca's case.

 

The tenants won't get money-- but they will get Hollywood showers- which should make them happy. (or would make them happy, if Rebecca hasn't promised a big settlement).

[Chicago Redshirt]

Not to get too realistic about this obviously unrealistic -- and I'm OK with that -- show, but the logic doesn't track in even the most basic fashion. In reality, it would be up to the other side to PROVE that not only were the emails illegally obtained, but also that Rebecca KNEW they were obtained unlawfully; that's a lot. Once Rebecca knows the email proof exists, she goes to Audra, who legally would have had to disclose them in discovery, so she's in AT LEAST AS MUCH ethical hot water for the cover-up,  and it's a hard way/easy way conversation. We either settle now, or drag your client's name through the mud while we go about getting these emails legally, which any lawyer worth their salt knows they would.

 

First off, nothing discussed in settlement is admissible, so since Rebecca hasn't admitted those emails into evidence, Audra would have no leverage to get her in trouble. And, besides, in even the most vaguely realistic legal terms, information obtained in an arguably sketchy matter, particularly in a civil matter, is less egregious than obviously incriminating information that is willfully withheld by the defense, particularly in a class action. All Rebecca would have to do is go to the judge and say she has a source within the company who says there are emails that prove her clients' case, which the defense has hidden, and the judge could compel Audra to produce the paperwork. (They could argue about bringing forward Rebecca's source, as well, but whistleblower laws could help protect that gambit for a long time.) The truth is, once the emails are known about, the cat is out of the bag, and any even fairly poor lawyer would know that.

 

... Which is all why I sincerely thought the show's endgame, growth moment for Rebecca was going to be the quiet settlement that actually helps the people, instead of a flashy in-court, televised victory over rival Audra. To me, the shrug and let it go ending was baffling, both in the show's universe and any sort of a hero set-up for Rebecca. It just didn't seem to track in any logical, emotional way. 

I guarantee we at PTV have collectively thought more about this issue than the writers. :)

 

But anyway, showing that the e-mails were obtained illegally would be fairly easy IMO since a) they were not turned over during the course of normal discovery b) the water company could check its records and find evidence they were hacked. 

 

Hypothetically, Rebecca might not have made discovery requests that covered the documents our Audra could have attempted a colorable argument for some sort of privilege beyond the "Liar, Liar" ("because that's devastating to my case") That's a stretch, granted, but possible.

 

Nothing in settlement discussions is admissible in the underlying court case, but I'm pretty sure that if something was said or done that was allegedly unethical, it could still be used in a disciplinary investigation with the Bar.

 

Another random thought -- why the case was in Los Angeles proper rather than in one of the many courthouses where citizens were being ripped off of water is another apparent misstep by Ms. Bunch. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[violetr]

Damn I love this show! So happy to find an active forum for it here. So many thoughts. 

 

First off, that JAP Battle was ridiculously awesome! I adored every second of it and watched it repeatedly. I'm not the type of Jew Rebecca or Audra are in that I'm not a total type A, didn't go to an Ivy league school, and didn't become a lawyer. But I did grow up with many women like that and regardless, a lot of the experiences and in jokes they mentioned are pretty universal for progressive American Jews raised with at least some degree of religion. I'm also surprised some of the cheeky lyrics weren't considered controversial! This in particular:

 

Cause we're liberals 
Duh, Progressive as hell
Though, of course, I support Israel

 

Would piss a lot of the old guard (and new guard, come to think of it) right off. 

 

I am a little bit annoyed by Paula's obsession with Rebecca and Josh. I hope she will eventually be the one to turn on the relationship and realize that Rebecca is better off with someone else.

 

 

My big question is when are both Paula AND Rebecca going to figure this out. Perhaps if there's a second season they'll get into this. Josh is obviously a sweetheart but he's wrong for Rebecca in every way. They have zero in common, other than a (brief) shared history. And she is WAY smarter, obviously. Sure, some marriages wherein the two people aren't intellectual equals survive, but I think it's fairly uncommon. 

 

Great episode. Hated the kiss though, can't stand cheating and don't care about Josh\Rebecca.

 

 

And I have knee-jerk disgust at someone cheating, which Josh was. So I'm sort of annoyed.

 

Ha, I must be a terrible person because I LOVE cheating on TV. It makes for great drama!

 

I thought it was left a little ambiguous. I do know a few big law ladies who love their lives and jobs. But I also know many that would be miserable. So I kind of like that you weren't sure about Audra but you know for sure that Rebecca knew she made the right decision.

 

 

I agree. I think Rebecca was definitely projecting, but I also think it was ambiguous as to whether or not Audra is unhappy. Maybe Audra doesn't even really know. I also don't think the show was in any way implying that Rebecca is suddenly blissfully happy because she left a high powered job and is now chasing the "man of her dreams." I think Rebecca is slowly growing to know herself better, but the central conceit of the show is that chasing Josh is a really bad idea, and deep down Rebecca knows it. The conflict within Rebecca is that she identifies as and IS a feminist, but she has a lot of inner conflict that sabotages that. She's got a long way to go to get to happy. Hero(ine)'s journey. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by violetr

[FurryFury]

Ha, I must be a terrible person because I LOVE cheating on TV. It makes for great drama!

 

Personally, I simply find cheating despicable. It is betrayal of the highest sort, I guess. I mean, there are situations where I could understand it (like arranged/forced marriage, abusive marriage, etc.) but not in this case. And most of all, if I root for a character, I need them to be likable in some way - not flawless, but still likable (yep, this is why I can't watch a lot of prestige shows). Cheaters are automatically unlikable.

Edited March 2, 2016 by FurryFury

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Rap Battles And Revolutions Break Out On Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
Could everything be working out for Rebecca? Probably not! But a trip to Los Angeles proves very eventful for the entire gang.

[Chicago Redshirt]

First off, that JAP Battle was ridiculously awesome! I adored every second of it and watched it repeatedly.

...

Josh is obviously a sweetheart but he's wrong for Rebecca in every way. They have zero in common, other than a (brief) shared history. And she is WAY smarter, obviously. Sure, some marriages wherein the two people aren't intellectual equals survive, but I think it's fairly uncommon. 

...

I agree. I think Rebecca was definitely projecting, but I also think it was ambiguous as to whether or not Audra is unhappy. Maybe Audra doesn't even really know. I also don't think the show was in any way implying that Rebecca is suddenly blissfully happy because she left a high powered job and is now chasing the "man of her dreams." I think Rebecca is slowly growing to know herself better, but the central conceit of the show is that chasing Josh is a really bad idea, and deep down Rebecca knows it. The conflict within Rebecca is that she identifies as and IS a feminist, but she has a lot of inner conflict that sabotages that. She's got a long way to go to get to happy. Hero(ine)'s journey. 

 

Loved the Battle Rap. Have to say Audra took it down, though. 

 

Re: Josh, what makes someone "right" for someone else is so hard to describe. Yes, Rebecca and Josh have little in common beyond summer camp and Rebecca is orders of magnitude smarter than Josh. They are largely opposites. But there's a reason "opposites attract" is a cliche. Josh embodies a lot of the things I'd argue Rebecca could use in her life -- someone who can deal with her weirdness, who doesn't look at her as damaged goods, who will allow her to mellow out and be optimistic about things, someone who genuinely wants her to be happy. 

 

FWIW, it seems to me based on the flashbacks and all the parental pushing and the fact that Rebecca knows Audra just as well as Audra knows Rebecca, that Rebecca is correct that Audra isn't really happy. 

[Eyes High]

First off, that JAP Battle was ridiculously awesome! I adored every second of it and watched it repeatedly. I'm not the type of Jew Rebecca or Audra are in that I'm not a total type A, didn't go to an Ivy league school, and didn't become a lawyer. But I did grow up with many women like that and regardless, a lot of the experiences and in jokes they mentioned are pretty universal for progressive American Jews raised with at least some degree of religion. 

 

I didn't grow up with that many Jewish kids, nor am I Jewish myself, but I remember a few eye-opening experiences at grad school (where there were many Jewish students in my program):

 

1. A beautiful non-Jewish female acquaintance crying her eyes out because her Jewish boyfriend had dumped her when she tried to get serious, on the basis that, well, she wasn't Jewish.

2. Jewish acquaintances warning me off dating Jewish boys, since they would never marry me.

3. A Jewish female friend watching Center Stage, with the gorgeous Eion Bailey playing a premed student, and casually stating that she was going to marry a Jewish doctor (she wound up dating a Jewish medical student a few months after that statement, and they're still together, as far as I know).

4. A Jewish female acquaintance being vocally and extremely anxious about being unmarried at 30. She wound up marrying shortly after (divorced the guy a few years later).

 

Re: Josh, what makes someone "right" for someone else is so hard to describe. Yes, Rebecca and Josh have little in common beyond summer camp and Rebecca is orders of magnitude smarter than Josh. They are largely opposites. But there's a reason "opposites attract" is a cliche. Josh embodies a lot of the things I'd argue Rebecca could use in her life -- someone who can deal with her weirdness, who doesn't look at her as damaged goods, who will allow her to mellow out and be optimistic about things, someone who genuinely wants her to be happy. 

 

Have to side with Violetr on this one. If Josh were just of average intelligence (like the Booth/Brennan situation on Bones), that would be one thing, but these days Josh is written to be borderline cognitively impaired. As a casual fling or fuckbuddy, I have no doubt that he'd be an excellent fit for Rebecca: he could help Rebecca loosen up (so to speak), they could enjoy delicious takeout together (you notice how she's more excited about the food she's going to eat at her meetings with Josh than about Josh himself?), they could laugh at dumb movies, etc. etc. Rebecca could then meet her needs for intellectual stimulation and a deeper emotional connection based on intellectual compatibility through other people.

 

As it is, unfortunately, Rebecca has her laser focus set to a long-term, monogamous, very serious relationship with Josh. There's no way that the disparity in their intelligence levels and educations wouldn't cause huge problems down the road for their long-term compatibility, at least in the real world. Not surprisingly, people with similar levels of education and IQs tend to fare better in marriage. Also, marriages between high-achieving and/or high-educated women and men who are not accomplished or educated do not tend to fare as well.

 

Purely anecdotally, almost all the high-achieving ladies I know, and I know a lot, married up: either guys in the same career as them but more senior and more advanced in their careers (junior associates marrying partners, medical students marrying residents, etc.), or guys who were even more high-achieving than they were but were in a different field (PhDs marrying doctors, e.g.). Where they married "down," they were marrying guys who were very well educated, but perhaps not hyper-educated, OR guys who were incredibly intelligent but who worked blue-collar jobs (think Good Will Hunting), OR guys who were very accomplished, intelligent, and successful but perhaps not highly educated. What they didn't do is marry unintelligent, uneducated AND unaccomplished guys. They fucked them occasionally, but they sure didn't marry them.

 

In the real world, Josh and Rebecca would be doomed. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Eyes High

[Pallida]

I tend to agree with those of you who are cringing at the kiss because of the cheating element.  In "real life" I generally put the onus of cheating on the person in the relationship, but in this situation, I've been really bothered by Rebecca actively trying to participate in cheating.  You want a relationship with Josh?  Be creative to get him to break up with Valencia first.  Put that energy into making him (manipulating him?) to see that Valencia "isn't right," demonstrate that you're a good friend, and then swoop in when he's single.  Hooking up while he's in a relationship is not going to make him dump her and run to you.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

I agree that Josh and Rebecca would be likely doomed, but that is largely because of Rebecca and her tendencies to veer between overthinking and acting impulsively, to lie compulsively and to self-sabotage. It reminds me of the lines from "The Dark Knight" where the Joker is talking about how he's basically a dog chasing a car and has no idea what he would do if he ever caught it. That's Rebecca.

 

I don't think Rebecca has any idea what an actual relationship with Josh might look like, only the highlights like mixed-race kids and experimenting with new cuisine. Any of the sources of potential conflict that would be between them (education/ambition/interests/culture/money/relatives/her mental health, etc. etc.) probably haven't even crossed her mind.

 

I do like that Trent is to Rebecca as Rebecca is to Josh. I do hope there's a twist down the line where they do a version of the theme song adapted to Trent as the "Crazy Ex-Boyfriend."

Edited March 3, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Irlandesa]

First, thank you to all the law talk. I don't know law, but I really felt there was more Rebecca could have done to get at a settlement of some kind.  It wouldn't have been the rain making settlement she was after but I would bet the big company would have paid to keep those buried.  Even if they figured they were stolen, it'd still be more valuable for them to make the story go away with a non-disclosure agreement than bring it out into the open in an attempt to expose the hacking.

I agree that Josh and Rebecca would be likely doomed, but that is largely because of Rebecca and her tendencies to veer between overthinking and acting impulsively, to lie compulsively and to self-sabotage. It reminds me of the lines from "The Dark Knight" where the Joker is talking about how he's basically a dog chasing a car and has no idea what he would do if he ever caught it. That's Rebecca.

 

I don't think Rebecca has any idea what an actual relationship with Josh might look like, only the highlights like mixed-race kids and experimenting with new cuisine. Any of the sources of potential conflict that would be between them (education/ambition/interests/culture/money/relatives/her mental health, etc. etc.) probably haven't even crossed her mind.

So much word to this.  I started out shipping Greg and Rebecca but I can't really ship Rebecca with anyone on this show.  She is not the only one who is fucked up on this show but at least the other fucked up people's sense of who they are and what they want are based on some sort of reality.  What she wants is a fantasy.  And soemone to make her whole.  Life isn't a fantasy so I don't really know what a relationship between them would look like.  What's her next fantasy and how far would Josh be willing to go along with it?  I genuinely don't know the answer to either of those questions. 

[JustaPerson]

I'm originally from LA county (not West Covina) and I was disappointed that they didn't name check my city when Josh was listing a bunch of them :(

 

The Trent and Rebecca interactions were hilarious mostly because they're both cut from same cloth in many ways

[violetr]

I didn't grow up with that many Jewish kids, nor am I Jewish myself, but I remember a few eye-opening experiences at grad school (where there were many Jewish students in my program):

1. A beautiful non-Jewish female acquaintance crying her eyes out because her Jewish boyfriend had dumped her when she tried to get serious, on the basis that, well, she wasn't Jewish.

2. Jewish acquaintances warning me off dating Jewish boys, since they would never marry me.

3. A Jewish female friend watching Center Stage, with the gorgeous Eion Bailey playing a premed student, and casually stating that she was going to marry a Jewish doctor (she wound up dating a Jewish medical student a few months after that statement, and they're still together, as far as I know).

4. A Jewish female acquaintance being vocally and extremely anxious about being unmarried at 30. She wound up marrying shortly after (divorced the guy a few years later).

 

 

I know I'm the one who brought up certain cultural aspects of being raised a progressive American Jew, but I'm not sure what the suggestion is here or how it relates to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? These are just a few random things that a few Jewish people did, as far as I can tell. 

[Eolivet]

This episode totally played like a finale, and as such, I can excuse the Josh/Rebecca kiss. It reminded me so much of the Buffy/Spike kiss at the end of the Buffy musical all those years ago. The show is a musical -- of course it ends on a kiss. If you listened really hard, I think you could hear "Where Do We Go From Here" playing in the background. "This isn't real, but I just want to feel," and all that.

 

That being said, I genuinely don't understand what they're doing with Greg at all -- not even a little bit. This wasn't Rebecca's feelings evolving and having her change her mind and run to him to confess them. This is Greg, who we already knew likes Rebecca, and also knowing that Rebecca doesn't like him that way running to confess his already-known-to-Rebecca feelings, when there is absolutely no reason to believe Rebecca's feelings for him have changed. Are we seriously supposed to root for Greg in that scenario -- knowing Rebecca does not like him like that, nor has the show given us any indication that her feelings have evolved?

 

I'd like to think the show was poking fun at the "somebody runs to confess their love" scenario as described in the Hallmark movies, and deconstructing it for the plot device that it really is. "Suddenly, with five minutes left in the show, I suddenly realize that I totally love you! And thankfully for our sponsors, you realize you love me back, so now the show can end! Yay!" Nobody ever (well, save the movie Sliding Doors) ever looks at what it looks like when you get there five minutes too late.

[FurryFury]

This episode totally played like a finale, and as such, I can excuse the Josh/Rebecca kiss. It reminded me so much of the Buffy/Spike kiss at the end of the Buffy musical all those years ago.

 

Oh my god, YES! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I felt! I mean, I really like OMWF, but I hate this kiss so much because of how wrong it feels. Not just because I hate Spuffy (well, I do, but I like to think I'm still able to feel objectively about it). Because it's clearly a bad decision and it is framed by the narrative as such. Of course, on Buffy, the narrative suddenly changed later (something I could never forgive the show for), so it left a horrible taste in my mouth. Hope nothing like that happens here, because as it is, Josh/Rebecca just shouldn't work. On different levels. Because she's a stalker, because she's mentally unhealthy, because he has very different interests and, yes, is nowhere as smart as her. And also (this one is subjective, though) they are just not dynamic enough together, which makes it not that fun to watch. What can I say, I love dynamic couples. I do think Josh could be a great friend for her down the line.

Edited March 3, 2016 by FurryFury

[violetr]

That being said, I genuinely don't understand what they're doing with Greg at all -- not even a little bit. 

 

 

I think the whole point of Greg is that he's a much better match for her, but she's so blinded by her Josh-colored love goggles that she can't see it. Will she ever? Who knows, but my fear is that the show won't be around long enough for us to find out. 

 

Oh my god, YES! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I felt! I mean, I really like OMWF, but I hate this kiss so much because of how wrong it feels. Not just because I hate Spuffy (well, I do, but I like to think I'm still able to feel objectively about it). Because it's clearly a bad decision and it is framed by the narrative as such. Of course, on Buffy, the narrative suddenly changed later (something I could never forgive the show for), so it left a horrible taste in my mouth. Hope nothing like that happens here, because as it is, Josh/Rebecca just shouldn't work. On different levels. Because she's a stalker, because she's mentally unhealthy, because he has very different interests and, yes, is nowhere as smart as her.

 

Hey, Spuffyite here! :) But I hear ya. I've practically gotten into arguments with my Bangel-oriented friends. I loved Spuffy because it was exciting and dangerous and oh so wrong (FYI, my Spuffy love does not include that one thing that happened - of which we will not speak. Still pissed about it). I agree that Josh and Rebecca shouldn't work. The difference for me is that Spike and Buffy, on some sick level, WERE equals. They both had super powers and were sort of like light and dark versions of each other. But Josh will never, ever be smart enough for Rebecca. His emotional intelligence is probably higher than hers but is that enough to sustain them in a healthy relationship? I think it's doubtful. I don't want to see it work out with them. 

[FurryFury]

I think the whole point of Greg is that he's a much better match for her, but she's so blinded by her Josh-colored love goggles that she can't see it.

 

It's more like both she and Greg could be compatible in theory, but their flaws and problems prevent them from being together - and who knows, it may not ever work out anyway. But I do see them as having more potential than Josh and Rebecca. 

 

The difference for me is that Spike and Buffy, on some sick level, WERE equals. They both had super powers and were sort of like light and dark versions of each other. But Josh will never, ever be smart enough for Rebecca.

 

Yeah, I get you. My problems with Spuffy are quite multi-layered, I guess - a lot of them have to do with how I see Buffy herself and her development. Here, the show's not that long, so it's easier to have a more objective view of the lead heroine, and I just can't see her and Josh ever bypassing the abyss between them.

[cleo57]

That being said, I genuinely don't understand what they're doing with Greg at all -- not even a little bit. This wasn't Rebecca's feelings evolving and having her change her mind and run to him to confess them. This is Greg, who we already knew likes Rebecca, and also knowing that Rebecca doesn't like him that way running to confess his already-known-to-Rebecca feelings, when there is absolutely no reason to believe Rebecca's feelings for him have changed. Are we seriously supposed to root for Greg in that scenario -- knowing Rebecca does not like him like that, nor has the show given us any indication that her feelings have evolved?

I don't really understand what they're doing with Greg either. If they were trying to lampshade the ridiculous romcom trope of rushing off to confess love, they didn't lampshade it enough. As you say, it was a moment of him realizing something he already knew. This does not make for a very narratively exciting realization, and it does not have any bearing on Rebecca's feelings. What did he expect to happen? That if he confesses his feelings more ardently that she'll come around? Greg obviously has not read Pride and Prejudice, because if he had he'd know that you have to let the lady's feelings change first before you make your superior second proposal.

 

Something I wish more shows/movies did subvert when it comes to the final act feelings realization is that those sorts of realizations often have short life spans. Sure, Greg might have been overcome by feelings as he watched Rebecca lose valiantly. But would that surge of feelings have lasted the two hour drive in traffic to LA? Nah. Greg has been presented as being pretty smart. By the time he got there he would've logically remembered that she was making out with Trent the last time he saw her, that she almost certainly has a crush on Josh, and that his feelings do not affect hers. He would have realized he was on a fool's errand. Rather than seeing him arrive at exactly the right moment, I honestly would have preferred a shot of him sitting in his car, stranded in LA traffic, glumly realizing that his grand moment of self discovery basically amounts to nothing.

 

Sometimes I think Greg's purpose on the show is to be the only character with full view of the metanarrative. He's privy to all of it: Rebecca's schemes, her love of Josh, her intelligence. He knows that Josh's cheerful passivity makes him easy prey, and he knows that Rebecca and Josh would likely be doomed if they ever got together for real. But he can't do anything about it and it's driving him crazy. He's the straight man with full view of the chaos and no ability to intervene.

 

I'm not actually sure that's the story the show is trying to tell. But it's the most sense I can make of his story so far? I do think they've kind of made a muddle of his characterization in the episodes after the holiday hiatus.  

 

Oh my god, YES! Thank you so much! This is exactly what I felt! I mean, I really like OMWF, but I hate this kiss so much because of how wrong it feels. Not just because I hate Spuffy (well, I do, but I like to think I'm still able to feel objectively about it). Because it's clearly a bad decision and it is framed by the narrative as such. Of course, on Buffy, the narrative suddenly changed later (something I could never forgive the show for), so it left a horrible taste in my mouth. Hope nothing like that happens here, because as it is, Josh/Rebecca just shouldn't work. On different levels. Because she's a stalker, because she's mentally unhealthy, because he has very different interests and, yes, is nowhere as smart as her. And also (this one is subjective, though) they are just not dynamic enough together, which makes it not that fun to watch. What can I say, I love dynamic couples. I do think Josh could be a great friend for her down the line.

I also think the OMWF kiss is a great comparison! It was the same combination of rousing emotional moment buoyed by background music and oh no this is a terrible idea. And I also hope the show follows through on the oh no this is a terrible idea aspect of the kiss. I don't mind messy romantic relationships on TV, but I don't really want to watch a show that asks me to actively root for a stalker to end up with her stalkee. Some of the Josh and Rebecca scenes in the past few episodes have been sweet and earnest in a pretty uncomplicated way. (For example: the West Covina reprise on the bus and the campfire scene.) I prefer it when their scenes have that undercurrent of wrongness, so I liked that their kiss was punctured by his horrified expression. 

 

But I also agree that Rebecca and Josh are not dynamic enough, especially when the show tries to play their relationship as sweet. 

[Jael]

I'm not actually sure that's the story the show is trying to tell. But it's the most sense I can make of his story so far? I do think they've kind of made a muddle of his characterization in the episodes after the holiday hiatus.  

 

Agreed. I am so bummed at this turn of events with Greg. He in particular has suffered from the oh-wait-we-might-get-cancelled-here's-a-finale-oh-wait-it's-not thing. He's important, so they wanted him there for the cliffhanger Rebecca/Josh kiss, but quickly wiping Heather away in one episode made pretty much no sense whatsoever, nor do I buy he ever would have driven two hours in traffic to "confess his feelings" when last week he had a very spot-on realization that Rebecca is no good for him and he should know better. This makes me very sad, as I love Greg. (Or perhaps I just love Santino Fontana.)

 

But I guess this is what happens when watching a show with dangerously low ratings -- they can't properly take their time to develop things that might pay off later, since they don't know if there's going to be a later.

 

I do enjoy Darryl and White Josh, in a development that took me completely by surprise and that I don't think I've ever seen before on mainstream/network TV. Yay for them!

[Irlandesa]

That being said, I genuinely don't understand what they're doing with Greg at all -- not even a little bit. This wasn't Rebecca's feelings evolving and having her change her mind and run to him to confess them. This is Greg, who we already knew likes Rebecca, and also knowing that Rebecca doesn't like him that way running to confess his already-known-to-Rebecca feelings, when there is absolutely no reason to believe Rebecca's feelings for him have changed. Are we seriously supposed to root for Greg in that scenario -- knowing Rebecca does not like him like that, nor has the show given us any indication that her feelings have evolved?

They wrote this episode as a finale.  For the most part, they did a semi-decent job with putting the stories at interesting places naturally except with Greg.  Darryl and White Josh and Rebecca and Josh were left in places that made sense. 

 

But Greg, who the show has had repeatedly kick himself because he's still hung up on a woman who does't want him, did not make a choice that made sense based on his characterization.  It was the most "plot forward" choice the show made.  I think they wanted to remind the audience that he's still there, he's still around and he's still a potential romantic factor for Rebecca (in terms of the show, not in terms of Rebecca herself.) And to do that, they had write both Greg and Heather out-of-character.

 

 

ETA: It looks like Jael and I were having pretty much the exact same thought at the exact same time.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Eyes High]

I know I'm the one who brought up certain cultural aspects of being raised a progressive American Jew, but I'm not sure what the suggestion is here or how it relates to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? These are just a few random things that a few Jewish people did, as far as I can tell. 

 

I should have clarified that for a show that wears its American Jewish identity on its sleeve, Rebecca's attitudes and experiences don't seem to align with other people I knew that fit her profile (late 20s, highly-educated at the best schools, liberal, and Jewish). She's not concerned about dating (or marrying) a Jewish guy. She's unconcerned with still being unmarried in her late 20s. She's planning Josh as her life partner and cooing about mixed race babies but not at all worried about the fact that he's not Jewish. It seems strange that a show that touches on Jewish experiences so clearly doesn't seem to reflect the relationship attitudes of the Jewish students I knew, so similar to Rebecca in terms of background, who considered dating/marrying within the faith as soon as possible something that was completely non-negotiable, and the alternative (marrying later, not marrying, or marrying a non-Jew) completely unthinkable, no matter how liberal and progressive they were. That was the point I was trying to make. 

 

It seems more than strange that someone so self-loathing and so prone to anxiety about her life and her choices, while simultaneously taking pride in her Jewish identity, is so anxiety-free about being unmarried at her age, being unpartnered with a Jew, and unconflicted about planning marital bliss with a non-Jew. Frankly, given my recollections of Rebecca-like students from grad school--proud, liberal, progressive Jews in their late 20s--it seems ludicrous. Rebecca's a depressive, self-hating basket case in every other respect but completely unconflicted about her relationship situation and romantic plans?

 

Greg obviously has not read Pride and Prejudice, because if he had he'd know that you have to let the lady's feelings change first before you make your superior second proposal.

Heh. Greg was very Darcy-like when he asked Rebecca out in 1x04. "I've got some serious objections to you as a partner, but unfortunately, I like you anyway. Be mine?"

 

But would that surge of feelings have lasted the two hour drive in traffic to LA? Nah. Greg has been presented as being pretty smart. By the time he got there he would've logically remembered that she was making out with Trent the last time he saw her, that she almost certainly has a crush on Josh, and that his feelings do not affect hers. He would have realized he was on a fool's errand.

Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking. Greg would have stopped himself long before he ever made it out the door, let alone made it all the way to LA. 

 

Rather than seeing him arrive at exactly the right moment, I honestly would have preferred a shot of him sitting in his car, stranded in LA traffic, glumly realizing that his grand moment of self discovery basically amounts to nothing.

Heh, that's so dark. I love it.

 

 

Sometimes I think Greg's purpose on the show is to be the only character with full view of the metanarrative. He's privy to all of it: Rebecca's schemes, her love of Josh, her intelligence. He knows that Josh's cheerful passivity makes him easy prey, and he knows that Rebecca and Josh would likely be doomed if they ever got together for real. But he can't do anything about it and it's driving him crazy. He's the straight man with full view of the chaos and no ability to intervene.

That's why Greg gets so frustrated: he knows this will all end badly, but he can't do anything about it. He's pretty much the guy in the movie theatre loudly warning horror movie characters not to go in the basement.

 

Greg is pretty much the Cassandra of CXG: he knows exactly what is happening and how it will end, he knows that one of his best friends and a girl he loves in spite of himself are on a collision course, and he knows that said girl has no interest in him and likely never will no matter what happens, but he's powerless to change any of it. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Eyes High

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved when Rebecca and Trent gave us more of their Harvard snobbery when they said Cornell is the community college of the Ivy League. It reminded me of Blair Waldorf saying that Princeton was a trade school.

[violetr]

I should have clarified that for a show that wears its American Jewish identity on its sleeve, Rebecca's attitudes and experiences don't seem to align with other people I knew that fit her profile (late 20s, highly-educated at the best schools, liberal, and Jewish). She's not concerned about dating (or marrying) a Jewish guy. She's unconcerned with still being unmarried in her late 20s. She's planning Josh as her life partner and cooing about mixed race babies but not at all worried about the fact that he's not Jewish. It seems strange that a show that touches on Jewish experiences so clearly doesn't seem to reflect the relationship attitudes of the Jewish students I knew, so similar to Rebecca in terms of background, who considered dating/marrying within the faith as soon as possible something that was completely non-negotiable, and the alternative (marrying later, not marrying, or marrying a non-Jew) completely unthinkable, no matter how liberal and progressive they were. That was the point I was trying to make.

It seems more than strange that someone so self-loathing and so prone to anxiety about her life and her choices, while simultaneously taking pride in her Jewish identity, is so anxiety-free about being unmarried at her age, being unpartnered with a Jew, and unconflicted about planning marital bliss with a non-Jew. Frankly, given my recollections of Rebecca-like students from grad school--proud, liberal, progressive Jews in their late 20s--it seems ludicrous. Rebecca's a depressive, self-hating basket case in every other respect but completely unconflicted about her relationship situation and romantic plans?

 

Here's the thing though: these are stereotypes that are based on a few people you knew. Are there Jewish women who are status and marriage obsessed? Sure, There are also many, many who aren't. Just like there are Christian and Muslim women who are and are not like Rebecca. Some human beings care about status, money, and "marrying well" (whatever that means). Some don't. Just as an example, my sister is basically Rebecca. She was the valedictorian at her high school, total type A achiever, now a successful lawyer, and at 30-years-old is completely unconcerned about marriage and is dating a non-Jewish French guy. What I'm saying is we have to be careful about stereotyping groups of people we're relatively unfamiliar with based on a few folks we know and existing cliches. I know zero harm was meant and I ain't mad about anything. :) Just felt I needed to say this. 

[Eyes High]

Here's the thing though: these are stereotypes that are based on a few people you knew. Are there Jewish women who are status and marriage obsessed? Sure, There are also many, many who aren't. Just like there are Christian and Muslim women who are and are not like Rebecca. Some human beings care about status, money, and "marrying well" (whatever that means). Some don't. Just as an example, my sister is basically Rebecca. She was the valedictorian at her high school, total type A achiever, now a successful lawyer, and at 30-years-old is completely unconcerned about marriage and is dating a non-Jewish French guy. What I'm saying is we have to be careful about stereotyping groups of people we're relatively unfamiliar with based on a few folks we know and existing cliches. I know zero harm was meant and I ain't mad about anything. :) Just felt I needed to say this. 

 

I was kind of shocked by my experiences, since they did seem to align with stereotypes, and since the people involved otherwise seemed so independent, liberal and progressive, but still, they were my experiences. That all my experiences with Rebecca types (male and female) matching her education and background conformed to that particular stereotype was extremely surprising, especially given that non-Jews of the same age and educational backgrounds didn't have those same anxieties (other than those from other ethnic and religious minorities favouring early marriage within those cultures or religions), but those were my experiences, and, frankly, your selective single anecdote about your sister doesn't invalidate my experiences as I have described them. They are what they are.

 

Your sister might be super-cool and evolved and above it all, but the people I knew who were just like her in terms of background and education weren't. They don't deserve your scorn for caring about "marrying well," needing to marry within the faith, or your suggestion that they're vain, greedy stereotypes because they weren't as evolved and above it all as your sister. This was something that was a real imperative for them inextricably linked to their Jewish identity, and that seems to have significantly complicated their search for romantic happiness. The story about the girl I knew who was desperate to marry a Jew ASAP because of her age is a sad story; this was so important to her that she entered into a short-lived, probably ill-advised marriage just to be married to a suitable guy before she got any older. The other girl I mentioned who was 100% set on marrying a Jewish doctor found a sweet guy (pretty sure she met him at a grad school/med school mixer, not surprisingly), but would she have found someone more compatible if she could have widened the field a little bit and maybe parked the relationship issue for a while instead of rushing into something? Probably. Maybe the guy I mentioned would have been really happy long-term with the non-Jewish girl he wouldn't date seriously; maybe he missed out on what could have been the happiest relationship of his life because he didn't feel he could date seriously outside his religion. (Or maybe he was using the religion excuse to blow her off, heh.)

 

Bottom line, I think you dismissing at my anecdotes by insisting that not everyone cares about money and status and pointing to your sister is missing the point. A lot.

 

I imagine there are liberal, highly-educated, professional Jewish men and women like your sister who don't give a shit about marrying Jews and never even think about these issues at all, but those weren't the people I encountered, and you cannot wish my experiences away with your sister's experience, I'm afraid. I find the fact that a thoughtful, intelligent, person like Rebecca, who is proud of her identity (as opposed to fleeing from it), hasn't even thought about these issues at all, even to the extent of dismissing them as unimportant, sexist or retrogressive or whatever, much less treating them like an unimpeachable, unassailable fact of life the way my acquaintances did, to be extremely unrealistic. Modern, highly-educated, professional people from religious or ethnic minorities, not just Judaism, do actually have thoughts and concerns about not marrying within their cultures or faiths, and do actually acknowledge these realities, if only to dismiss them for whatever reason. ("Yeah, my parents want me to marry an Indian doctor, and I get that, but I'm so in love with this Korean engineer, and hopefully they'll come to see that." "Yeah, it sucks that all my other LDS friends are married with kids at 22, and people look down on me because I'm not, but I just want to meet the right person, and I want to experience life before settling down." "I'm in love with an American, but I just don't know how we're going to make a cross-cultural relationship work." And so on.)  They often wind up succumbing to those pressures as well, and there's certainly no shortage of narratives about people who otherwise consider themselves highly-accomplished, modern and progressive treating old-fashioned, very restrictive rules when it comes to their romantic relationships as a fact of life that can no more be changed than the rising and setting of the sun.

 

That this struggle is completely nonexistent for Rebecca, that she has no thoughts or feelings about this whatsoever, even if only to dismiss them for whatever reason (it's different because Josh is perfect, I don't care about fitting in, I can convince Josh to convert, etc.), is ludicrous. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. It would be one thing if Rebecca's Judaism were never mentioned or discussed in the show (as opposed to a JAP Battle Rap), if Rebecca were actively fleeing from her Jewish heritage and trying to rebel by finding an otherwise unsuitable guy, or if she showed any acknowledgment whatsoever of the issues at play if only to lecture whomever about how marriages later in life last longer and how it's 2016 and people need to get with the program about Jews marrying outside their religion, etc. etc., but it's like there's this big black hole in Rebecca's story. 

 

I think the problem is that Rachel Bloom wants to write a story about a Jewish female character mirroring her comic persona and reflecting certain aspects of her life and experience (Rebecca is the Liz Lemon to Rachel's Tina Fey), but that she also wants to write a story about a female character desperately obsessed with an ex-boyfriend, and that the creators also wanted to tell a story with an "Asian bro" at its centre. That explains the black hole. Rebecca cannot be conflicted about pursuing Josh at all on the basis of anxieties about pressures that Jewish people face, and she cannot even acknowledge that those pressures exist, because the whole point of her character is that she is 100% in love with him, 100% dedicated to him, and 100% convinced that he is perfect for her in every way. So those pressures conveniently evaporate for the sake of the narrative. It's convenient, but it's dumb. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Eyes High

[violetr]

I was kind of shocked by my experiences, since they did seem to align with stereotypes, and since the people involved otherwise seemed so independent, liberal and progressive, but still, they were my experiences. That all my experiences with Rebecca types (male and female) matching her education and background conformed to that particular stereotype was extremely surprising, especially given that non-Jews of the same age and educational backgrounds didn't have those same anxieties (other than those from other ethnic and religious minorities favouring early marriage within those cultures or religions), but those were my experiences, and, frankly, your selective single anecdote about your sister doesn't invalidate my experiences as I have described them. They are what they are.

 

Okay, this is the last I'm going to say on this topic (promise, mods), because clearly I'm not yet persuasive enough to write that book, "Dismantling Dangerous Stereotypes Through Logic." I never said your experiences weren't valid. I said that you have to be careful about stereotyping an entire culture (one that you admitted to being largely ignorant of) based on a few experiences you had with some folks from that culture, and how you interpreted those experiences. The anecdote about my sister is just an example - but one of thousands. I can't change your mind but I can at least offer the perspective of someone raised within the culture. 

 

All of which is to say, bringing things back on topic, that there may be many things about this show that are narratively specious, but Rebecca not being obsessed about marrying within the tribe at a young age is not one of them. 

[Eyes High]

All of which is to say, bringing things back on topic, that there may be many things about this show that are narratively specious, but Rebecca not being obsessed about marrying within the tribe at a young age is not one of them. 

 

As I said, it wouldn't be the first time the show has selectively ignored realities to tell the story they want to tell, as this episode's fast and loose relationship with the law indicates. But by all means, continue to accuse me of adhering to stereotypes without actually addressing my arguments. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by Eyes High

[JustaPerson]

I can see Rebecca with all her issues, not realizing (among other things) that her nightmarish mother would rake her over the coals if Rebecca decided marry Josh instead of a Jewish guy. Reality just hasn't settled in for her yet. Sometimes people can be selectively ignorant/oblivious of things, especially someone like Rebecca.

[arc]

I think the problem is that Rachel Bloom wants to write a story about a Jewish female character mirroring her comic persona and reflecting certain aspects of her life and experience (Rebecca is the Liz Lemon to Rachel's Tina Fey), but that she also wants to write a story about a female character desperately obsessed with an ex-boyfriend, and that the creators also wanted to tell a story with an "Asian bro" at its centre.

I think part of the thing here is that Rachel Bloom's real-life "Josh" really was/is Asian.

 

edit: at least I'm ... fairly sure that's the case?

Edited March 4, 2016 by arc

[possibilities]

I actually like Greg, and would probably like hanging out with him at least as much as with any of the other characters, probably more. But I agree that him rushing off to declare himself to Rebecca was out of character and made no sense. The scene in the bar made sense when it was more about Heather discovering Greg's feelings. When it became about Greg discovering his feelings, it contradcited every other scene they've given him recently, where he was quite explicit about knowing what his feelings were. Hew as annoyed with himself for being dysfunctional, not in denial about what he felt. And, too, even if Josh had not been kissing Rebecca, him rushing to Rebecca to... do what? Comfort her, I guess? That would just be him repeating what he'd very wisely decided not to do any more after the broken glass scene. Heather was never about being a codependent or chasing someone who already rejected you. Why would she encourage this, and why would Greg do it? Made no sense.

 

RE: the portrayal of Rebecca not conforming to stereotypes: Eyes High, your argument seems to be that you met some people who conform to stereotypes, and therefore it seems strange that the show has Rebecca not demonstrate any of those stereotypical concerns. All I can say is that as a Jew with both the educational and religious and "progressive" background you are using to back up your anecdotes, I find your conclusions to be over-generalized and highly offensive as well as simply inaccurate.

 

To expect the show to create those qualities in Rebecca, as though any other possibility is simply not credible, is like saying that because you knew some folks like that, that none other exist in reality (despite being told otherwise by people in this thread who live it and know different), and that moreover no other portrayals should be accepted in fiction, either. I don't get it.

 

I think the show should be applauded for breaking these kinds of molds and creating characters that represent the real variety of personalities in the world, instead of pulling from the bag of stereotypes many even "diverse" shows tend to rely on.

 

For any group of people, to portray them exclusively as the most stereotypical examples, would be limiting and obnoxious. Should Josh be portrayed as a math and science geek because there are some Asian math and science geeks in the real world and therefore if you've met a few math and science geeks you think that it's not also true that there are also Asian jock bro types? Does the show lose credibility because all its characters are not robotic stereotypes and some actually have three dimensions that challenge those ideas?

 

Expecting the show to be portraying Rebecca the way you are describing is, to me, as offensive as complaining that they are not portraying Darryl as a Tonto-style "Indian" stereotype, or complaining that he's too fluent in English, too highly educated, too urban, and should not be named Whitefeather, since he goes against white-created "Native American" movie tropes, or complaining that Josh's lack of academic math-science geekery is shocking because it goes against stereotype and you knew a few Asian Americans who were good at math.

 

Also, in the anecdotes you describe about the Jews you met, you seem to think it's an exclusively Jewish thing that some want to marry within the faith, but there are lots of people of all faiths and cultures who have that value. If a Catholic won't date a Muslim or marry a Jew, is that surprising, or is it fairly common? Likewise with some of the other qualities you note in your Jewish acquaintances, I think they are only being noted as particularly Jewish because you see them as Jews, but if anyone of any other culture or religion demonstrated those qualities, it would just be that they are particularly focused on marriage, or come from a strong identification with their background and want to marry within it, etc. There are career ambitious people and marriage-focused people, and all kinds of people, in all kinds of places. I have known plenty of people who had those values who were not Jews and no one seemed to think it was because they were NOT Jewish, if you get my drift.

 

I think that it's surprising in a good way that the show challenges assumptions right and left. It's one of the things I love the most about it, and I find it refreshing that they admit they are doing it on purpose and that they've brought in consultants from the cultures of origin that they are representing (for instance they wanted to make sure the Filipino food in Thanksgiving episode looked right)-- this protects both them and us from accidentally going with their own personal experiences, which are necessarily limited, and enables them to make the show subversive of assumptions and pull everyone watching into a broader vision. If they did nothing else, I'd be watching them for moments like every time someone calls "White Josh" by that name, and otherwise turns habits and assumptions on their heads.

 

I think the problem is that Rachel Bloom wants to write a story about a Jewish female character mirroring her comic persona and reflecting certain aspects of her life and experience (Rebecca is the Liz Lemon to Rachel's Tina Fey), but that she also wants to write a story about a female character desperately obsessed with an ex-boyfriend, and that the creators also wanted to tell a story with an "Asian bro" at its centre.

Why is this a problem? I think the problem is that you think it's problematic. It's complex and not what we're used to seeing. I think it's part of what makes the show interesting in the first place.

Edited March 4, 2016 by possibilities

[Jael]

I imagine there are liberal, highly-educated, professional Jewish men and women like your sister who don't give a shit about marrying Jews and never even think about these issues at all, but those weren't the people I encountered, and you cannot wish my experiences away with your sister's experience, I'm afraid. 

 

Some of us know Jewish people who are deeply concerned with marrying within the tribe. Some of us know Jewish people who aren't. No one person's experience is more valid than another's, and in any case, in the fictional setting of this fictional show, the fact that Rebecca does not appear (so far as we know in the baker's dozen of episodes the show has had so far) to be deeply concerned with this simply is what it is -- a choice on the part of the writers, not a value judgment or declaration of The Truth Of Jewish Life or any such thing. Rebecca is who she is, doing what she does. If we want her to be different, that's on us, not her.

 

Now I would like to hear Greg sing some more. And dance, if possible. Because I have gone pretty much to the end of YouTube on this -- and many thanks to whoever recommended "Submissions Only" in an early CXG thread -- I devoured all three seasons in a snap! And highly recommend it to any other newly minted Santino Fontana fans.

[Trini]

I'm just catching up, but I've been rooting for Josh/Rebecca, so I loved the kiss! I know that there's probably going to be a reversal in the next episode, but I'm enjoying the 'win' for now.

 

In addition to a Les Miserables parody, Galavant also had a rap battle between to rival women.

[AnnaRose]

Some of us know Jewish people who are deeply concerned with marrying within the tribe. Some of us know Jewish people who aren't.

 

I could see it being surprising to some viewers that there has never been any mention of the potential issue given that Rebecca's mother seemed to be presented as such a stereotype. 

[theatremouse]

I could see it being surprising to some viewers that there has never been any mention of the potential issue given that Rebecca's mother seemed to be presented as such a stereotype.

To me, actually, that is the stereotype right there: I would expect Rebecca's mother to be concerned about Rebecca marrying someone Jewish, not for Rebecca to be.

Whether Rebecca would be concerned about her mother's concern is sort of a separate issue, but could easily go either way and I don't have a problem with them not commenting on that so far.

[aradia22]

This episode was comedic perfection. I do not often post about this show, I just enjoy it, but this was... Emmy worthy. Every moment was just gold. In my mind, the actor playing Trent was clearly gay but still, I wish he could have stuck around. I loved him. I think I might like him more than Greg. I don't want judgmental Greg. I want another version of Rebecca, which is what Trent was. I loved everything he was bringing. As with white Josh and any other eligible bachelor who is not Josh Chan, Rebecca was not feeling it, but they didn't anything to burn the character and I'm hoping Trent's not the type to give up that easily. Hopefully, he'll be back. All the song parodies were so great. And the reprises? I love that the show can now do that and we understand what it means! I love this show!

[AnnaRose]

I too hope we see Trent again.  I LOVED him!   I thought the actor did a terrific job with a rather difficult part.   He really walked the line between creepy stalker and harmless, adoring and adorable puppy-dog.   When Rebecca complimented his passionate kissing, his "Thank you so much" was just so sincere and kind of precious.   And then he could just turn on a dime to innocently blackmail her into having dinner with him.  All of their interactions were gold for me.  Plus, it was nice to have him as a mirror for Rebecca... although it sadly didn't lead to any epiphanies for her.

[Blakeston]

On 3/4/2016 at 0:03 PM, Eyes High said:

 

I should have clarified that for a show that wears its American Jewish identity on its sleeve, Rebecca's attitudes and experiences don't seem to align with other people I knew that fit her profile (late 20s, highly-educated at the best schools, liberal, and Jewish). She's not concerned about dating (or marrying) a Jewish guy. She's unconcerned with still being unmarried in her late 20s. She's planning Josh as her life partner and cooing about mixed race babies but not at all worried about the fact that he's not Jewish. It seems strange that a show that touches on Jewish experiences so clearly doesn't seem to reflect the relationship attitudes of the Jewish students I knew, so similar to Rebecca in terms of background, who considered dating/marrying within the faith as soon as possible something that was completely non-negotiable, and the alternative (marrying later, not marrying, or marrying a non-Jew) completely unthinkable, no matter how liberal and progressive they were. That was the point I was trying to make. 

 

It seems more than strange that someone so self-loathing and so prone to anxiety about her life and her choices, while simultaneously taking pride in her Jewish identity, is so anxiety-free about being unmarried at her age, being unpartnered with a Jew, and unconflicted about planning marital bliss with a non-Jew. Frankly, given my recollections of Rebecca-like students from grad school--proud, liberal, progressive Jews in their late 20s--it seems ludicrous. 

The thing is, while Rebecca fits a lot of Jewish stereotypes, and takes a lot of pride in Jewish culture, it doesn't seem like she practices the religion. And she may not even believe in it.

She's very much a secular Jew. While there are certainly some exceptions, Jews who are laser-focused on marrying other Jews tend to be a lot more religious than she is.