S03.E12: Sins Of The Father

[vanarnd1]

I found it pretty frustrating that we're going with the "Abbie's got a major problem but doesn't tell anyone about it" route. It's one of those things that just drive me crazy in story telling. Characters that are close should talk about major things. They should not cut themselves off because of a fear that the other person won't understand.

Yeah I agree. All of the characters acknowledge she is going through something, but we don't really see anyone asking for specifics on how she is doing.  I guess they are setting up for a reveal in the next few episodes, but it made a lot of the dialogue seem kind of clunky.

 

The episode was solid, I like the reveal at the end with the evil FBI guy and what will happen with Abbie. Nevins was a better change of pace for a villain, but the secondary character stuff didn't work for me as much. It seemed kind of abrupt for Jenny.and Abbie to meet their father, considering he was in Sleepy Hollow and could have contacted them if he had wanted to meet. And it is also a little cliche how Danny as the boss is in the dark about so much, it seems like a plot contrivance at this point. I agree with others, the way they were able to defeat the monster was too easy, but that is likely just unavoidable with a show like this. I think kind of like last week and for parts of this season, they are building toward something big but the episodes it takes to get there are a little clumsy IMO.

[3dog]

When Abbie is worshiping her symbol, is she putting her arms and body in the shape of the symbol sort of? I couldn't decide.

[HalcyonDays]

When Abbie is worshiping her symbol, is she putting her arms and body in the shape of the symbol sort of? I couldn't decide.

 

Yeah, she is. When she put her arms in that form, I was like, "Oh, THAT'S what the symbol is supposed to represent."

[Clanstarling]

For a guy who is still new to the present time, Crane has some serious cooking skills. His use of the knife was pretty impressive.

I think I've been watching too much Chopped and other Food Network shows, because I was thinking "yes, fast, that's good, but watch out. Oh wait, those are not cut evenly, that piece of carrot is twice as big as the rest, they'll never cook evenly!" But it still looked pretty good, and though my man does make dinner, he doesn't do it like that. I'd swoon for that.

[HalcyonDays]

I think I've been watching too much Chopped and other Food Network shows, because I was thinking "yes, fast, that's good, but watch out. Oh wait, those are not cut evenly, that piece of carrot is twice as big as the rest, they'll never cook evenly!" But it still looked pretty good, and though my man does make dinner, he doesn't do it like that. I'd swoon for that.

I actually was thinking, "Mison, watch your fingers man!! Holy shit, you're gonna cut those digits badly..." No seriously, that is what I thought. Love the man to death, but how he didn't chop some skin off his fingers, I have no clue...

[HalcyonDays]

This made me feel better about Abbie's poor manners and how she must have hurt Crane's feelings. I felt hurt feelings just watching her blow him off after all his most excellent work. "I'm leaving, keep it warm for me." Geesh. That wasn't even POLITE. Did the time in the catacombs suck all her good manners out?

 

Speaking of manners, Pandora is for sure married to an abuser. Time for that one to go home.

 

I love you, sabre5055, Seriously, this post rules!

[jhlipton]

I am not happy at all that they "Damseled" Jenny. The Jenny I know and love would not be held hostage or collapse like that. Boooooo!

Putting down both Randell and Nevins (both fine characters) in one episode was harsh!

 

Is it possible that Abbie isn't telling Crane what's going on because she's being kept from doing so by whatever is holding her in thrall?

When she said "I'm yours" it told me that she hasn't said anything because the crossed arms symbol (how cool was that?!) doesn't want her to.
 

I actually was thinking, "Mison, watch your fingers man!! Holy shit, you're gonna cut those digits badly..." No seriously, that is what I thought. Love the man to death, but how he didn't chop some skin off his fingers, I have no clue...

I was watching and they cut away for the actual chopping -- probably by a professional chef.

Edited February 28, 2016 by jhlipton

[possibilities]

I am not happy at all that they "Damseled" Jenny. The Jenny I know and love would not be held hostage or collapse like that. Boooooo!

I also call bullshit on her saying no one had ever done anything so wonderful for her before. Abbie gave her life to save Jenny just a few episodes ago. The team has been saving each others' lives for along time, and Joe's not even as good of a fighter nor as resourceful with the research/spellbooks/identifying of artifacts/etc. as Abbie or Crane. I just don't buy that coffee with Deadbeat Dad is all Joe's doing, nor that it trumps the other acts of salvation and devotion, nor that Joe is more life-saving or heroic or generous towards her than others. The show has really completely downgraded the sister bond this season, and has been dividing the team up into couples separated on missions, with Sophie bobbing back and forth between them.

[Enero]

I also call bullshit on her saying no one had ever done anything so wonderful for her before. Abbie gave her life to save Jenny just a few episodes ago. The team has been saving each others' lives for along time, and Joe's not even as good of a fighter nor as resourceful with the research/spellbooks/identifying of artifacts/etc. as Abbie or Crane. I just don't buy that coffee with Deadbeat Dad is all Joe's doing, nor that it trumps the other acts of salvation and devotion, nor that Joe is more life-saving or heroic or generous towards her than others.

I also did a double take when Jenny thanked Joe for doing such an extraordinary thing. And besides being baffled by her comment because as you said Abbie had just 'died' a few episodes earlier to save her, I was wondering what exactly it was Joe did that was so amazing? Just talk her into going to see her piece of sh*t of a dad? The whole scene and the set up to the scene, Jenny being taken down by Nevins, rang completely false to me.

The show has really completely downgraded the sister bond this season, and has been dividing the team up into couples separated on missions, with Sophie bobbing back and forth between them.

I don't know if I'd say they've downgraded the bond, because they have worked together some this season and had some really good sisterly moments, even last episode they had one when discussing their dad. However, I do agree that in an attempt to make Joe/Jenny deep and viable they've had them almost exclusively working together.

[CooperTV]

I also did a double take when Jenny thanked Joe for doing such an extraordinary thing. And besides being baffled by her comment because as you said Abbie had just 'died' a few episodes earlier to save her, I was wondering what exactly it was Joe did that was so amazing? Just talk her into going to see her piece of sh*t of a dad? The whole scene and the set up to the scene, Jenny being taken down by Nevins, rang completely false to me.

 

Abbie and Jenny had no relationship to speak of for years. Now they do, and it's great bond. But I don't think Jenny ever had a best friend before. Abbie is simply not her best friend. They love each other, and would do anything for each other. But Jenny's emotional journey was never fueled by Abbie as an example. Abbie doesn't challenge her to look differently at things and confront them. Both Corbin, however, did. The same thing happened with Abbie, to whom Corbin was an  example to live by.

 

Jenny is a loner that want to belong to something greater. Abbie is a gruff control freak that suppresses and devalues her own feelings (and sometimes does that with feelings of others). That also doesn't mean they have to be BFFs, codependent or have only each other to try and be better people.

[Clanstarling]

But Jenny's emotional journey was never fueled by Abbie as an example. Abbie doesn't challenge her to look differently at things and confront them.

This. I took her to mean that no one has ever taken care of her emotionally. That being said, she had pretty serious barriers that prevented anyone from taking care of her in that way before. And while I don't particularly care for the consistent message that it is better to make nice with someone who's hurt or abandoned you (and rejected that advice in my life), there is also some truth that sometimes these are the very things that help heal us. And someone who loves you might be able to see that it is what you need, despite your denial. Edited February 28, 2016 by clanstarling

[Julia]

This. I took her to mean that no one has ever taken care of her emotionally. That being said, she had pretty serious barriers that prevented anyone from taking care of her in that way before. And while I don't particularly care for the consistent message that it is better to make nice with someone who's hurt or abandoned you (and rejected that advice in my life), there is also some truth that sometimes these are the very things that help heal us. And someone who loves you might be able to see that it is what you need, despite your denial.

I'm going to have to go with your rejecting that advice. I thought Joe was manipulative, condescending and misguided, and I think it's highly improbable that listening to their father mansplain abandoning his broken orphan children is going to help either Mills with her walls.

I honestly feel like these writers should avoid trying to write personal growth. They don't strike me as very deft at it.

[Clanstarling]

I'm going to have to go with your rejecting that advice. I thought Joe was manipulative, condescending and misguided, and I think it's highly improbable that listening to their father mansplain abandoning his broken orphan children is going to help either Mills with her walls.

I honestly feel like these writers should avoid trying to write personal growth. They don't strike me as very deft at it.

Oh, I don't regret, for one minute, that I rejected the advice. But I do know some people who needed that face-to-face to heal. I'm not quite as harsh about Joe, though I don't disagree, and certainly his experience was not equivalent to Jennie's. And I particularly hated his "put your ego aside" statement, which had some merit for his own relationship, but not for hers.

Totally agree they didn't do this with a deft touch. If they had, they'd have shown Jenny being a bit more conflicted before Joe's "encouragement."

[Yolapukka]

If I were to go by the actual conversation Jenny had with her father and how most people would  reasonably react to his words both on an emotional level and an intellectual one, I'd have to say that Jenny got a really hefty dose of her father showing her exactly who he is and was, which is someone who may genuinely care about the people he should, but a man who is also utterly unwilling to do any heavy lifting in a relationship, including providing a stable home or at the very least re-establishing contact with his two children who were in foster care while their mother was in a mental institution. Maybe we will see that there is more to his absence than he's telling, but at this point I don't think so. I think he's just someone they can't rely on and anything that they get from him will probably fall under the heading of too little, too late, unless he winds up in a body-bag, which is not anything that makes for an ongoing relationship. Certainly, to me anyway, his conversation with Abbie indicated he's no-one she could ever entrust the slightest whiff of knowledge about what really goes on in her life. All of which is to say that the best thing Jenny should be taking away from that conversation is although there were some issues on her father's side of things of which she wasn't aware, her takeaway should still be that the problem lay with him, it was nothing to do with her.

 

I think they stumbled a bit with Joe's role in this, they should not have written him as pushing her to contact her father because of his own baggage, but supporting her in doing what she was already considering and drawing on his experiences in order to support her. The two things are similar but not the same and dialogue that had been written with a little more care was all that was needed.

Edited February 29, 2016 by yuggapukka

[CooperTV]

I have an impression they were trying for subtle here. Like Jenny founding out where her father was before Abbie and being angry at him. Then there's her still being more emotionally affected by his absence and terrible behavior than Abbie ever was, that she was afraid to meet him in person for a long time and instead sneaked into his house to get the lighter. The lighter thing was that subtle thing of her being wistful that brought Joe's pushing her to thinking about meeting the Dad.

They're (the writers) not very good at subtlety, that's the issue.

Edited February 28, 2016 by CooperTV

[jhlipton]

her takeaway should still be that the problem lay with him, it was nothing to do with her..

 

At least the dad was aware enough to admit that, and that the awareness didn't absolve him of his actions.

[Three]

The Joenny thing is not working for me anymore. It feels forced and I’m not believing it. Whether that is the actors or characters, I’m not sure.  It was okay at the start, but now I’m bored. I don’t care if it doesn’t get any screen time at all.
Not sure if it is the right place to speculate, but the way that they are amplifying the JJ relationship drama – that is, it not just being background but taking up valuable storytelling space (inexplicably in my view), makes me wonder if one of them isn’t going to cark it towards the end of the season.
Also not a fan of the “I’ve got a problem but I’m not going to tell anyone” plot device. Hopefully they nip that in the bud quickly.

[TaurusRose]

Seriously, either they are really setting up the show to go there with an Abbie/Ichabod pairing or they are trolling the shippers hard.  Either way, Tom Mison is totally playing Ichabod as someone who is in love with Abbie.  That meal, the candles, etc.   That goes beyond mere caring.  That is grade 'A' wooing right there.

 

THIS.

 

I continue to like how they're using Sophie. I liked her exchange with Crane over the body of the monster. First her, "How you doin'?" Then the comment on the ugliness of the creature and Crane giving it serious consideration complete with examination of the body before saying it wasn't as ugly as some.

 

And THIS.  Sophie may be a badass FBI agent, but I love her newbie reactions to the supernatural issues she’s confronting.

 

I was impressed by Ichabod's cooking and then his bologna sandwich at the end. I'm seriously impressed if a man cooks for me. Probably better than my cooking!

 

What I liked about the sandwich scene is that Crane listens to Abbie.  She asked him to stop spoiling her and he went back to his simple meal for one.  But really, Crane, you couldn’t run out for some honey ham?  LOL

 

The chest-bursting was a bit more intense than I expected. I expected a cut away or strictly side shot, not full-frontal!

 

Yes, that was intense and surprised me, too.  I was like... “Damn!”

 

For a guy who is still new to the present time, Crane has some serious cooking skills. His use of the knife was pretty impressive.

 

Huh.  Much better than mine.  I would have ended up with some deep cuts and a trip to the ER.

 

… she didn't seem to have complete control over what was happening, I'm not even sure whether she has total awareness of what she does in that shed when she's away from it.

 

Abbie in the garage broke my heart.  It’s hard seeing her as some THING’s sock puppet.

 

Papa Mills is an ass, but I don't think he was introduced for nothing… I did have to laugh at the sight of a king size bed in their lair.

 

You’re probably right about Ezra, but I so do. not. care.  And really why should Abbie and Jenny?  They are grown women and have survived their ordeals without him.  Sure, they have battle wounds from his defection, but his presence isn’t going to un-do anything. Fuck him.

 

Regarding the bed...huh.  At first I thought we were in Abbie’s room and would see Abbie in it.  I expected her to wake up suddenly after having one of her "mess with your mind" dreams.  She'd come to full awareness violently, knocking a lamp on the nightstand to floor.  The unexpected noise gives Crane a reason to rush to her side in his nightshirt, sans robe.  Ignoring decorum, he sits on her bed in an attempt to comfort her and…  Okay.  I’ll shut up and let myself out now.

 

ETA: a few things.

Edited February 29, 2016 by taurusrose

[EverCat]

The best part of the episode for me was no Busty Ross - although I thought for sure she was going to make an appearance when Crane mentioned Benjamin Franklin's interrogation method (cue flashback).

 

I guess Pandora didn't kill Nevins but, then he returns and they kill him off anyway :(  Even if Bill Irwin (who'll always be the Flying Man to me) was busy I wish they would have left the door open for his return. 

 

Oh, and I loved when Crane called Abbie Tenente.

[Snookums]

Well, this one was a big grab bag full o' plots&bits, wasn't it? Don't like this scene? Grab another.

 

They couldn't make it more obvious that Ich is in love with Abs if they had him wandering around holding a boom box over his head. This was the same dude who was trying to cook a frozen microwave lasagna in that very frying pan two weeks ago, correct? When did he turn into Master Chef? Love works miracles, indeed!

 

Nichole Beharie KILLED it this week! She had to play three versions of Abbie: I'm Back And Fine And Coping Abbie, Secretly Worried I'm Losing My Damn Mind While Meeting My Estranged Father And Fighting Ghouls Abbie, And Entranced By Mystery Symbol Abbie, and she knocked it out of the park. If you watch the show again knowing the ending, you can see her thinking she's Abbie A while hiding Abbie B, and meantime Abbie C is pulling all the levers and pressing all the buttons. If there was any damn justice in the world she'd have Emmys for bookends by now.

 

Joe and Jenny were pretty painless this week (to watch anyway; they got more thrashed than is usual even for them!) but I get the whole father thing is the Big Bad this season, show; you don't have to keep dragging Big Dead Daddy Corbin in here. Man, if I were Clancy Brown I would be soooo pissed--I can't even think of another show that's gotten so much mileage out of a  character that was decapitated in the pilot! He's getting screwed on the residuals front, lemme tell ya.

 

The ghoul thing was pretty basic plot point monster who existed only to serve and shove the game pieces in place and obligingly not attack the leads too much. Why, though, did it continue to obey Atticus after it got the scarab back? Wouldn't it just skip off and slaughter or find a cave to sleep in or something?

 

I did love Atticus's smarmy reveling in his own shittiness--it reminded me of Henry cheerfully confronting and wiping out the meth addicts at the hotel last season. I am super bummed to lose him and Big Muppet Mouth Randall in the same episode, though--they were both fun characters! At least Randall can hop over to Rosewood without too much problem--as far as I can tell it's just a bunch of big studly bald hotties making out with pretty women, so he'll enjoy himself.

 

 

Speaking of manners, Pandora is for sure married to an abuser. Time for that one to go home.

 

 

 

Dreezle drozzle drozzle drome, indeed. Pandy Bear, it's not going to get better! All he does is lie around and bitch and make you his unpaid therapist and throw his damn power/convenient lack of same in your face! He's an ungrateful ass! 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Snookums

[possibilities]

At least Randall can hop over to Rosewood without too much problem--as far as I can tell it's just a bunch of big studly bald hotties making out with pretty women, so he'll enjoy himself.

Hee. Rosewood isn't just big studly bald hotties making out with pretty women. It does also have a lesbian couple where both partners have hair. We don't get to see them make out much, though.

 

Maybe after Pandora kills HO, he can show up on Rosewood as a big studly bald hottie corpse.

[TaurusRose]

I've re-watched the episode and noted a few other things this time around...

 

I really enjoyed the aborted dinner scene.  Ichabod was really, truly courting Abbie and she was receptive to it...the greetings in Italian (romance language, people); the way she looks at him when he hands her the glass of wine; she softens the disappointment of bailing on him by touching his arm twice before she leaves and, then there's the big one, people!  Damn it, she even acknowledges his bow with a little curtsy.  I just can't with these two.  

 

Someone may have already pointed this out, but Abbie appears to be slipping in and out of two different realities--the world she's always lived in, where she's trying to deal with the trauma of her 10-month isolation (or is it a year? they've used both measurements) and the world where she believed she was alone, but is clearly in the thrall of some powerful entity or spell.  Also, the position she took up in the garage seemed very similar to the one the demon ghoul made after being shot; this makes me think that whatever is going on with Abbie is tied to Pandora & THO.

 

THO is just plain hateful.  If someone treated me with that level of spite and malevolence I'd gut him in his sleep.  I hope Pandora is quietly plotting revenge on his evil ass.   

 

I set the number of creepy people stalking Abbie at 2-1/2: Danny's handler (I don't know what that dude's name is, but who told him Abbie's behavior was unstable, and who is the "us" he referred to?), Ezra (because why has he suddenly reached out to Jenny after all these years, then specifically ask her to arrange a meeting with Abbie?) and Danny.

 

The Nevins feeding scene was hilarious and Sophie's reaction was the best.  LOL  I like her a lot.  I also liked the quiet intimacy between Joe and Jenny in their last scene.  That was their most authentic interaction (romantically) to date.    

 

Abbie seems most like her old self when she's with Crane, and I think that's because she does feel safe with him and knows she can trust him.  I was happy she told him that [she didn't think] she could hit the scarab because the target was too small (flashing back to her earlier disastrous practice session).  She wasn't ready to talk about Ezra, but she did let him know that her struggle was real and she was trying. Those little efforts show me that Abbie is putting up a fight, but whatever is manipulating her is really strong.  

 

And finally, no Betsy Ross.  Hallelujah!

 

ETA: Fix grammar

Edited February 29, 2016 by taurusrose

[DJG1122]

 

Someone may have already pointed this out, but Abbie appears to be slipping in and out of two different realities--the world she's always lived in, where she's trying to deal with the trauma of her 10-month isolation (or is it a year? they've used both measurements) and the world where she believed she was alone, but is clearly in the thrall of some powerful entity or spell.  Also, the position she took up in the garage seemed very similar to the one the demon ghoul made after being shot; this makes me think that whatever is going on with Abbie is tied to Pandora & THO.

 

Since Pandora created the Tree and brought THO out of it, I'm wondering if Abbie Witness put him there and took away his powers. Is she now enthralled by THO and he will get his powers back through/from her?

[DJG1122]

 

THO is just plain hateful.  If someone treated me with that level of spite and malevolence I'd gut him in his sleep.  I hope Pandora is quietly plotting revenge on his evil ass.   

 

 

 

She is. I can see it in her eyes.

 

 

 

Sorry for the double post-computer issues.

[topanga]

 

Someone may have already pointed this out, but Abbie appears to be slipping in and out of two different realities--the world she's always lived in, where she's trying to deal with the trauma of her 10-month isolation (or is it a year? they've used both measurements) and the world where she believed she was alone, but is clearly in the thrall of some powerful entity or spell.  Also, the position she took up in the garage seemed very similar to the one the demon ghoul made after being shot; this makes me think that whatever is going on with Abbie is tied to Pandora & THO.

 

WTF, Abbie? Is the symbol alive and calling out to her subconsciously, or she only imagining that the thing is alive, which is why she kneels before it and sees it light up? 

 

And did we ever get a good explanation about the symbol itself--why Abbie drew it on the cave wall in the first place, and what it really means?

 

I like Crane's concern for her. But I hope he at some point refuses to accept her "I'm okay" answers, when he clearly knows she isn't. They live in the same house--he clearly knows that her personality, sleep patterns, and eating patterns are all different. And she's incredibly secretive now, which is new. Yes, Abbie has always been guarded and private. But now she repeatedly bails on their group outings and squirrels away by herself. 

[DJG1122]

More musings:

 

Did Grace banish THO to the Wasteland using Betsy Ross's sword that Abbie found? Since time is different there, THO has been there a long time, but it may be only since Grace time in this realty.

Edited February 29, 2016 by DJG1122

[bethy]

And did we ever get a good explanation about the symbol itself--why Abbie drew it on the cave wall in the first place, and what it really means?

 

Did Abbie draw it on the cave in the other dimension or was it already there? I hadn't considered her drawing it. I assumed it was already there and bewitched her or whatever. Hmmm.

[topanga]

Did Abbie draw it on the cave in the other dimension or was it already there? I hadn't considered her drawing it. I assumed it was already there and bewitched her or whatever. Hmmm.

I seem to remember during the montage of Abbie's time in the catacombs, she first drew the symbol on the wall, and then over the 10-months, she covered the entire wall with drawings.

[DeLurker]

Did the big shot who has been calling Daniel shoot Nevins in his car? 

 

I thought he did, but sadly I was drifting in and out due to some meds during the show and have yet to rewatch.  Cause shooting someone point blank is cold, but shooting him while he is sitting in your car is beyond stupid.

[topanga]

Did the big shot who has been calling Daniel shoot Nevins in his car? 

 

I thought he did, but sadly I was drifting in and out due to some meds during the show and have yet to rewatch.  Cause shooting someone point blank is cold, but shooting him while he is sitting in your car is beyond stupid.

I know, right? Who's going to be on brain detail? Or in this case, I guess it'll be heart tissue detail. 

[Enero]

Did Abbie draw it on the cave in the other dimension or was it already there? I hadn't considered her drawing it. I assumed it was already there and bewitched her or whatever. Hmmm.

 

Excellent question. Upon rewatch, it doesn't appear that Abbie drew the symbol while she was trapped in the Catacombs. The only thing that was shown on the walls was her drawings mapping the landscape around the Catacombs. 

 

It was only when she went into the well to escape the Catacombs did we first see the symbol on a cave wall. The wall didn't appear to be the same wall that was in the Catacombs.  I say this because the wall Abbie was using for her drawings were covered with a map of that world. The symbol was on a wall with nothing else.

 

I think when she went into that well, she picked up some kind of entity. I noticed that during the montage of her escaping the Catacombs we get the flash of her eye and it's change to something other than human.  

 

When you think about it, something had to happen down that well, something supernatural to get her out of there. It's just seems a bit to easy that all of those 10 months, all she had to do was lower herself down a well and she'd miraculously end up back in our world. Something probably did help her get back, then caught a ride to our world while doing so, which could be why Abbie is acting so strangely now. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by Enero

[topanga]

Excellent question. Upon rewatch, it doesn't appear that Abbie drew the symbol while she was trapped in the Catacombs. The only thing that was shown on the walls was her drawings mapping the landscape around the Catacombs. 

 

It was only when she went into the well to escape the Catacombs did we first see the symbol on a cave wall. The wall didn't appear to be the same wall that was in the Catacombs.  I say this because the wall Abbie was using for her drawings were covered with a map of that world. The symbol was on a wall with nothing else.

 

I think when she went into that well, she picked up some kind of entity. I noticed that during the montage of her escaping the Catacombs we get the flash of her eye and it's change to something other than human.  

 

When you think about it, something had to happen down that well, something supernatural to get her out of there. It's just seems a bit to easy that all of those 10 months, all she had to do was lower herself down a well and she'd miraculously end up back in our world. Something probably did help her get back, then caught a ride to our world while doing so, which could be why Abbie is acting so strangely now. 

Ooh, spooky. That sounds like something straight out of 'Alien'. 

 

And thanks for the clarification on the drawings. 

[Miss Dee]

Well, damn it.

Because you know what we're going to get now: Ichabod flashbacking to Betsy Ross trying to determine if she picked up anything similar that might help him cure Abbie.

Oh well, if that's the price we have to pay for a meaty Abbie storyline - and possibly some hurt/comfort Ichabbie goodness while we're at it - so be it!

[TaurusRose]

Since Pandora created the Tree and brought THO out of it, I'm wondering if Abbie Witness put him there and took away his powers. Is she now enthralled by THO and he will get his powers back through/from her?

 

I really, really LIKE this theory.  

 

WTF, Abbie? Is the symbol alive and calling out to her subconsciously, or she only imagining that the thing is alive, which is why she kneels before it and sees it light up? 

 

And did we ever get a good explanation about the symbol itself--why Abbie drew it on the cave wall in the first place, and what it really means?

 

I like Crane's concern for her. But I hope he at some point refuses to accept her "I'm okay" answers, when he clearly knows she isn't. They live in the same house--he clearly knows that her personality, sleep patterns, and eating patterns are all different. And she's incredibly secretive now, which is new. Yes, Abbie has always been guarded and private. But now she repeatedly bails on their group outings and squirrels away by herself. 

 

IIRC, the symbol appeared above the entrance in the wide shot.  (Remember when Abbie first looked out over the wasteland of wherever she was?)  Whatever the symbol means though is part of the mystery.  Crane needs to go back and look at the Sumerian tablet he smuggled into the country, but wait...he doesn't know that Abbie is drawing an archaic symbol everywhere.  I like Crane's concern, too.  Right now he's giving Abbie space (I love how gentle he is when questioning her) and probably hoping that she will open up in due time.  It's in his character not to push her, but you are right.  Team Witness doesn't have the luxury of waiting and at some point Crane is going to have to grab the bull by its horns (or the Witness by her lovely curls in this case) and pressure her to start talking. And finally, I love your word choice (secretive) because it is beyond accurate at this point.

 

P.S.  That is one wickedly ugly wig they've saddled Pandora with.  Ew.

[Nanrad]

Although I do agree that it would be best for people to talk about their issues on the show, IRL, I have experience with people who don't talk about their issues AT ALL no matter how much you carefully prod and show interest in resolving said situation. It also feels true for Abby in the sense that she's just trying to work the issue out, but I also think that she is under the influence of an unknown entity. Abby is seriously the last one of the (original) core cast who'd worship a random symbol. She'd point out that it is crazy and ridiculous. But, instead, the episode before last, she immediately erased/covered it the Crane came back in the room, which says she instinctively protective of the symbol and that also points to her being under its control from the get go in some capacity. 

 

She seems enchanted by the symbol from the first drawing, to the glass door, and then the garage wall. She even called it beautiful--like, again, this is not Abby and because it's not her, there is no way she'd open up about such a thing that is clearly sacred.

 

Lastly, she is literally worshipping and obsessively drawing the symbol. She vowed herself to this thing talking about "I'm yours" after saying,"you were the only one looking out for me in the catacombs." I don't remember exactly, but whatever this thing is, no matter how much Abby talks about what she experienced, THAT topic is not going to come up, especially since she knows how others will view it which is why she sent Crane away to worship it. And not to just skip over this: but, she TALKED to it. Which reminds me, I even think she was the one to CARVE the symbol out on the garage wall in an area where it cannot be easily discovered. 

 

TO answer another person's question: we saw a glimpse of the symbol in the episode Abby escaped her exile, but we've never explicitly had anything stated about it unless we missed the clues. We've just seen symbols in passing, but I believe, the series will later explain the significance of the symbol and it's power.

[Miss Dee]

Crane finds out at some point - I'm guessing the next episode - because photo stills for the episode after this week's show Crane with a little carving of the symbol, as if he's studying it.

[MissAlmond]

 

Cause shooting someone point blank is cold, but shooting him while he is sitting in your car is beyond stupid.

 

Shot him  "leave the gun, take the cannoli" style in the car.

 

 

P.S.  That is one wickedly ugly wig they've saddled Pandora with.  Ew.

 

Poor Pandora.  Since raising The Hidden One, she went from Absolutely Fabulous to folk in Sleepy Hollow singing "Grizabella the Glamour Cat" as she passes by. 

[HalcyonDays]

Crane finds out at some point - I'm guessing the next episode - because photo stills for the episode after this week's show Crane with a little carving of the symbol, as if he's studying it.

 

Someone elsewhere posted that in the opening scene, when Abbie walks in with her journal and Crane hands her the wineglass, the journal actually lights up for a second, and Crane notices, but doesn't say anything. I'll have to watch it again, but I think you are right, Miss Dee.

 

Cause shooting someone point blank is cold, but shooting him while he is sitting in your car is beyond stupid.

 

Well, maybe he's got some shady government minions that'll help clean up/hide the mess. Or it's not his own car, and they can just ditch the car somewhere and stage it, to make it look like a suicide of something. *shrug*

[LeeLeePanda]

Shot him  "leave the gun, take the cannoli" style in the car.

 

 

Poor Pandora.  Since raising The Hidden One, she went from Absolutely Fabulous to folk in Sleepy Hollow singing "Grizabella the Glamour Cat" as she passes by.

I just cackled so loudly that I scared my sister.

[jhlipton]

And did we ever get a good explanation about the symbol itself--why Abbie drew it on the cave wall in the first place, and what it really means?

 

 

I don't believe so -- it would lessen the mystery.

 

I think when she went into that well, she picked up some kind of entity. I noticed that during the montage of her escaping the Catacombs we get the flash of her eye and it's change to something other than human.  

 

When you think about it, something had to happen down that well, something supernatural to get her out of there. It's just seems a bit to easy that all of those 10 months, all she had to do was lower herself down a well and she'd miraculously end up back in our world. Something probably did help her get back, then caught a ride to our world while doing so, which could be why Abbie is acting so strangely now. 

 

I want to make a connection with the 4,722 Hours plot from Agents of SHIELD (Simmons was gone for 7 months, her time), but it's only vaguely similar.,

[HalcyonDays]

And did we ever get a good explanation about the symbol itself--why Abbie drew it on the cave wall in the first place, and what it really means?

 

I think we will, in true SH twistory fashion.

 

Info on the actual rune shape.

[DeLurker]

Well, maybe he's got some shady government minions that'll help clean up/hide the mess. Or it's not his own car, and they can just ditch the car somewhere and stage it, to make it look like a suicide of something. *shrug*

I can never find a good shady minion when I need one.

[TaurusRose]

I think we will, in true SH twistory fashion.

 

Info on the actual rune shape.

Thanks for the rune info.  So nice to see they (writers) actually did some research.  Anyhoo, it's a safe bet that this is all tied to Pandora & THO.  I'm basing this solely on Crane's partial interpretation of the runes while in astral form and Pandora's reaction to the place when she arrived there.  This could be sooooo good!

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by taurusrose

[CalamityBoPeep]

 

Regarding the bed...huh.  At first I thought we were in Abbie’s room and would see Abbie in it.  I expected her to wake up suddenly after having one of her "mess with your mind" dreams.  She'd come to full awareness violently, knocking a lamp on the nightstand to floor.  The unexpected noise gives Crane a reason to rush to her side in his nightshirt, sans robe.  Ignoring decorum, he sits on her bed in an attempt to comfort her and…  Okay.  I’ll shut up and let myself out now.

 

I was right there with you on that little imaginary side trip, except in my mind, she wakes up in a cold sweat, and crawls into Ichabod's bed to snuggle down next to him while he sleeps. While he sleeps, his arm cradles her, pulling her closer, her head rests on his shoulder...

 

Er... what was the subject?

 

Team Witness doesn't have the luxury of waiting and at some point Crane is going to have to grab the bull by its horns (or the Witness by her lovely curls in this case) ...

 

My God, my mind keeps taking things to a dirty, dirty place. ;-)  I wish I wrote fan-fiction. LOL

[TaurusRose]

I was right there with you on that little imaginary side trip, except in my mind, she wakes up in a cold sweat, and crawls into Ichabod's bed to snuggle down next to him while he sleeps. While he sleeps, his arm cradles her, pulling her closer, her head rests on his shoulder...

 

Er... what was the subject?

 

 

My God, my mind keeps taking things to a dirty, dirty place. ;-)  I wish I wrote fan-fiction. LOL

 

Totally my intent.  LOL

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Parental Discretion Is Advised On Sleepy Hollow
Good casting, bad pacing, and an ugly death in 'Sins Of The Father.'

[Snookums]

I can never find a good shady minion when I need one.

 

 

They cost a fortune! They used to work solely for misguided loyalty; now they all want dental, the ungrateful bastards.

[Badsamaritan]

Ooh, that rune has got me thinking all sorts of things now. Mainly, it made me immediately think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer's final season episode, Get It Done, when Buffy travels to an alternate dimension and finds out the exact source of the Slayer power. I just keep thinking the symbol is tied to the Witnesses' history as Destroyers. Maybe Original Recipe Witnesses needed a supernatural boost to help combat their supernatural enemies, and this rune is tied to that. The link above says something about it being ancestral, so maybe it is taking over Abbie, not realizing that these Witnesses don't need that power, either because of being in present day or that they're a lot more powerful than their ancestral Witnesses. Maybe even a combination of both. So this ancestral rune is not evil, it is just doing its job, if that makes sense.

Regardless of how this plays out, at the end of it I'm expecting some nekkid Witness alone time, Show. Don't make me, hear?

[topanga]

Ooh, that rune has got me thinking all sorts of things now. Mainly, it made me immediately think of Buffy the Vampire Slayer's final season episode, Get It Done, when Buffy travels to an alternate dimension and finds out the exact source of the Slayer power. I just keep thinking the symbol is tied to the Witnesses' history as Destroyers. Maybe Original Recipe Witnesses needed a supernatural boost to help combat their supernatural enemies, and this rune is tied to that. The link above says something about it being ancestral, so maybe it is taking over Abbie, not realizing that these Witnesses don't need that power, either because of being in present day or that they're a lot more powerful than their ancestral Witnesses. Maybe even a combination of both. So this ancestral rune is not evil, it is just doing its job, if that makes sense.

Regardless of how this plays out, at the end of it I'm expecting some nekkid Witness alone time, Show. Don't make me, hear?

But even if the symbol represents an ancestral super-power, it seems to be harming Abbie, rather than helping her. She's becoming more isolated from her friends and family, she's not mentally focused, and she's usually melancholy and doesn't show much of the playful sarcasm I'm used to seeing.

 

And I'm with you on the nekkid Witnesses time. If their hand porn is any indication of how affectionate they'd be with one another...Damn, Daniel!

 

*ETA: because I need to proofread my posts before hitting "Reply"

Edited March 2, 2016 by topanga

[Badsamaritan]

But that's why I was reminded of the Buffy episode - the shamans thought she needed help to defeat The First and were gonna force the extra power on her. Even the first Slayer told her 'no friends', that the Slayer was meant to be alone. But the new modern version wasn't alone. So the rune could be tryna form her into the ancient times Witness. Again, believing that is the way of all Witnesses cuz that's the way it was always done.

I'm prolly very wrong anyway lol.